Good Grief - let's talk about it

As members of the Dead Dad Club, we know a thing or two about grief. How do you talk about a loved one who's died without it becoming a whole thing? And what's the right way to support a grieving friend?

In this episode, we share our experiences, discuss the awkward moments no one prepares you for, and explore what actually helps when someone is grieving.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:08

What's up, Amy Students?

SPEAKER_02 0:12

On the microphone, you've got Amy and Lydia. Woo woo!

SPEAKER_01 0:17

We're back with another Thursday episode as always.

SPEAKER_02 0:22

We're back with this will be on the test. Will this be on the test? Some of it might.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

I mean it's like this. So make sure to grab a notebook and this will be on the test.

SPEAKER_02 0:39

Hello. Should we do a little disclaimer about this episode?

SPEAKER_01 0:43

I think so. I think so. Um so today is a bit of a serious topic. Yes. Um, in case you guys don't know, we are in the dead dad club. So you know I saw this YouTuber and she said, I accidentally bought the lifetime subscription to the dead dads club. That is hilarious. Kel T O'Connor. She's really funny.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

Um just real quick, in case you haven't lost a parent, um we do tend to have a certain type type of humor about it. And for some people who still have both parents, it can be uncomfortable. And uh, you know what? You still have both your parents, so get over it.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

Uh you can't have both your parents and get the jokes. Like you it's got a give. Yeah, it's a give and take. Um but we also don't just talk about how it is to deal with grief, but like how to support somebody dealing with this situation. So if you know somebody who's gone through it, we're going with it. We have some insight because we've been through it, and we have a few friends who have sadly also gone through it.

SPEAKER_02 2:00

Yep, the club's getting bigger. Anyway. Anyway, would you rather? I think this this is a nice would you rather, or I like this question. Um, if you've lost someone, would you rather be able to see them, let's say, for an hour, but you only get to listen, or you only get to talk?

SPEAKER_01 2:19

I think I would rather only get to listen. Because one thing that is so specific to a person is their voice. Yeah. And that's I mean, now in modern day, you will have some recordings of their voice, but it's like something that it's very like you can't recreate that. And it's just something that I don't know, I found that I would miss dad's voice. And so if I could get the chance to just hear him talk, I think I would do that.

SPEAKER_02 2:59

Yeah. Same. I also I'm a little hippy-dippy in this sense, maybe, but I think like he knows what's going on. So I don't need to explain what I've been doing for the past How many years has it been? Seven years, eight years? Like I think he knows. Wow, eight years soon. Yeah. Crazy, no. Yeah. Um so I think that's also why like I would wanna I would wanna hear what he has to say.

SPEAKER_03 3:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:31

And I feel like he knows everything that I would want to say anyway.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

Yeah. Even if I like I think I would also know what he wants to say, which is like how much he cares about us and blah blah blah. Blah blah blah. Um whatever. No, but yeah, I think definitely hearing their voice would be more meaningful to me.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

Yeah. Um I agree. Yeah. Would you rather someone say something completely wrong but well-meaning, or say nothing at all and just stare at you when you're in the grieving? Because people have such okay, to preface this, if you've like, if you've never dealt with grief, maybe you you don't know, but after you've lost somebody, some people get so awkward around you. And it's just that is so exhausting. And they either say the wrong thing or they just stare at you and you know they don't know what to say, so you kind of have to be like, it's all good. I think that's one reason why we are so humorous about it, just to kind of take the awkwardness out of the situation.

SPEAKER_02 4:41

Yeah, because also, like, you're already dealing with grief, you don't need to deal with this other person feeling awkward about it. Yeah, don't worry, my problems are more than you not knowing what to say.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

I think that's comforting as a person on the outside. Like, people are always, or I've had a few friends come to me who had another friend dealing with loss, and they're like, What should I say, or what how can you support them? And I'm like, honestly, they're not thinking about how like what you're saying to them. It's more important that you're there.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

Although, having said that, I did have a friend say something that I was like, Are you fucking kidding me? Because we had lost our dad, and he went, Oh, this must be really hard for your oldest sister. And I was like, What? And he's like, Well, you know, she has all these memories with him. Like, he just walked her down the aisle. Like, she has all these memories, and now he's just not there. And I was like, Yeah, really hard for her that she got to have her dad walk her down the aisle. And I was I was really just like, who says that? Like, this must be on your other sibling and not on you. It's just like, then stare at me. Do not say that. What?

SPEAKER_01 6:00

That's true. Yeah. Okay, if it's that wrong, then I agree. Stare at me and like, shut up.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

I'll deal with the situation, but don't assume that it's harder for someone else than I don't know. That was just bizarre to me because she has all these memories, and I was like, Yes, oh no, she got to live more of her life with her father. Oh, tragic. That's insane, actually. That's wild.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

So things not to say. I've got a few. Also, don't go with the you know my dog died. It's like, bitch. Okay. Even if your dog was like a son to you. Yes. Even it's just not the time. It's not the time c to compare losses.

SPEAKER_02 6:46

Just even like if somebody tells me a different family, like even if their dad dies, I will be like, oh, I'm sorry, I lost my dad a few years ago too. But I won't, like, even sometimes I don't bring that up. Because they lost their dad. It's not about me and my loss. It's about them. So definitely the person staring at me. I can deal with that way better.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

You've talked me into that now, hearing that somebody said that to you. Oh no. I prefer the staring. That is that is so bizarre. Uh-uh.

SPEAKER_02 7:13

Yeah. And it was like a week after, too. Like it was quite fresh, and I was just like, uh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

Okay. Thanks for nothing. Yeah. That's wild.

SPEAKER_02 7:29

Let's get into this. Very fun episode we have going today. Woo! Bringing in the energy. Um Does grief? Does it ever go away? It changes. It lessens sometimes. Like I feel like the initial grief of that this person is gone, and I don't get to tell them about my day. I don't get to ask them about their day, is such a strong feeling. And I think that continues. And for me, I notice it in like big life moments of like I wish this person could see their night or their grandkids and realize like how cool their kids are as parents or stuff like that where it's just like that's sad. But it's no longer kind of all consuming.

SPEAKER_03 8:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:35

Um but I don't think it ever really goes away.

SPEAKER_01 8:38

I don't think it I don't think it goes away, and I think that's something that you kind of have to accept. Like it's been almost eight years now, and one of the hard things is something that you touched on is sometimes for me it will almost come the most when life is the sweetest. Because I don't know, because then you're looking at how beautiful everything is, and then there's this feeling of I wish you were here to experience this with us.

SPEAKER_02 9:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

And that is so bittersweet and kind of will still get to me sometimes. Yeah. Because I'm like, it's been so long, like it's good now.

SPEAKER_02 9:23

We can yeah, but at the same time, it like it reminds me that that person was that important. Like it's a reminder of like, oh, I I still care so deeply for dad. Yeah. And like, even though he's been gone for eight years, like my feelings have maybe changed and I see more of his complexities as a person because I'm also I've become an adult in the meantime. But like it reminds me of like I really do care for this person, even if I don't get a share that relationship. Like, I still get to carry this part of the relationship. And like grief is a very tough emotion or thing to go through, but I also think there are some beautiful things that grief give, and it is the the reminder of the person.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

What is the worst advice someone can give a grieving person? We heard a bit of this. Would you rather?

SPEAKER_02 10:21

Yes. Um, it sucks for you, but not as much as for a insert maintenance.

SPEAKER_01 10:27

It must suck for you, but it's way worse for your sibling.

SPEAKER_02 10:30

Yeah, or the parent, or like yeah, I do think losing your partner is very different than losing your parent. Losing a sibling is very different again. Like that's uh grief I don't think I can allow myself to imagine because I will just start crying. But yeah, no, the worst advice is just assuming someone else has it worse, or I've also had people who assume they know exactly what you're going through because they've also lost someone. Like every loss is unique because the relationship was unique. And you can say, Yes, I also lost a parent and I'm really sorry, and it really sucked for me. I can imagine it sucks for you. But to say something like, I know exactly what you're going through. My dad died when I was 65. I'm like, Yeah, cool. My dad died when I was 23. And like that's that's a little bit of a difference. Maybe you'll agree with me.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

Uh I think any form of assumption, and I think you have to let just give them the space to sit in it. It's not gonna get better right then. It sucks. I remember after dad died, we sat. Do you remember this? We were sitting in the kitchen, and it felt like for two hours we just kept on saying, This sucks, this sucks. Like we would trade off and we were just sobbing, and everybody kept on saying, Oh man, this sucks. This sucks. Because there's nothing else to say, it just really sucks.

SPEAKER_02 12:01

Yeah. And I think if you are comforting someone through grief, it comes up very unexpectedly sometimes too. Like also months would pass, and I thought, I'm over it. Not over it, but like I'm over the rough part, and then it would hit me and I would just like spend a day crying. And I think the people who are who are supporting grievers, like that's a really tough position to be in. Because also I think I like my emotions were all over the place, and I would like snap at people or just like completely shut off because like I just couldn't deal with certain things in that moment. And the people who were the most supportive were the people who just didn't really expect anything from me. Like they didn't expect me to be crying, they didn't expect me to be fine or laughing, they kind of just went with my flow. Yeah. And I think that like that's a very nice way to serve someone in grief of like taking care of them and taking any pressure off of how they're supposed to grieve or supposed to feel or yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

I think any advice is almost the worst of advice. I think it's really hard. No, I think it's really hard to give good advice in that situation.

SPEAKER_02 13:16

Because you like, what do you you can't say anything that's going to make them feel better, and that's the honest truth about grief. Is Yeah. If there was something that would make people stop grieving, you think we would have figured it out by now. There is and it's uncomfortable if you're not the person grieving because you want to make them feel better.

SPEAKER_01 13:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:37

But no matter what, unless you can bring that person back from the dead, you can't make them feel better necessarily. You can make them feel okay for a minute, you can make them feel good about other things in their life, but you can't make them not be grieving.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

I think one nice thing that you can say is Um, I'm so sorry you're going through this. If you ever feel like you want to talk about them, I'm here. Yeah. And I remember Randy said this to me, and I really hope he's listening to this episode, because that's somebody said that to him when his mom died. And I think that's so nice because after, depending on what society you live in, but in the society that we're in here in Switzerland, after somebody's died, you're very much expected to not really talk about it anymore because it's an uncomfortable thing for people. And so if you hear somebody say, Hey, I want to hear about them, or I want to hear how they were, yeah, that is that can be a nice thing. And usually, like, I don't think I would have been ready to talk about it in that moment. Maybe somebody is, but just when you're ready, I'd love to hear about them.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

I think so too, because that also allows you to keep them alive. Because sometimes when I talk about dad, I feel like I'm forcing it on the other person. But if I know that they're like, no, tell me about your dad. Like, I want to know about him, then it's like it's a very nice thing of like, let's keep this person or this relationship that you had with him alive through conversation. And I yeah, I think that's a very, very nice thing to do for someone.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

What else do you think like actually what do you think are things that help in like with a grieving person and what are things that are a misconception? Um, I mean, bringing food is great.

SPEAKER_02 15:35

Yeah. But I think it really depends on the relationship you have with the grieving person. But I think going with their flow, sometimes in grief you just want to be distracted, you just want to not be sad for just a few minutes. And if that person can be goofy or whatever and get you laughing, and even if you start crying immediately afterwards because you feel like you shouldn't be laughing because you're supposed to be sad because this person just passed away. Like that's a very nice thing. And I think I mean one of the nicest things you can do for someone is just being there. Yeah, I agree. Even if they go and lock themselves in a room and cry, if you're just in their house or whatever, if they want you to be, if you if that's the kind of relationship you have with them, not if you're like a 15th cousin and have never met them. Don't do this. Um, but if you're like a very close friend or a partner, to just like be making noise in the background so they know they're not alone in it, even if they're alone in their grief. What would you say?

SPEAKER_01 16:36

I agree. I think I think it's always nice or yeah, it not always, but usually well received to ask people what they would appreciate. Like I know somebody through friends, I know of them who just went through a terrible loss, and um she received flowers, and apparently her whole house was full of flowers, which is it's sweet, but at some point she was just giving people flowers because she's like, every time I look at these, I just see my loss. Yeah. And I think maybe if you're that person's neighbor and you want to do something nice, maybe you can go by and be like, Look, how can I support you in this moment? Would you like, can I make you a meal? Can I send you some flowers? Maybe not right after, but I don't know. I think it can be nice depending on the relationship you have with them. If you never talk to them, sure, send them some courtesy flowers to tell them that you're thinking of them. But if you're close-ish friends, I think you can go by and ask what they would appreciate. Yeah. Because maybe they're a single mom and they're like, look, I would I just really need somebody to drive my son to soccer now because I can't muster up the energy, you know. I mean, you there might be things that you wouldn't have thought of.

SPEAKER_02 18:04

Yeah, I think so. And I think ask them without pressure as well. Like sometimes you don't know what you want because everything is confusing and the whole world no longer makes sense because your world has just shifted dramatically. But at the same time, sometimes you can also just be like, I don't know, my apartment's a mess, and I'm like, I don't have energy. And then you clean it or hire a cleaning lady or something like that. Yeah. Where it's just like it's just showing that you're supporting them in whatever way they need.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

Yeah, I agree. And checking in months later. Months later. Sometimes it feels like no, sometimes it feels like everybody's there for you in the moment, and then a few months later, it's just back to normal, which is nice in certain aspects. But it's not over then. Yeah. And I think you can go by shortly after, and if they say, hey, nothing can help right now, I just need to go through it, fine. But maybe like two months later, you can go by and be like, look, my offer still stands. If there's any way I can support you or your family, let me know. How do you tell people in your life about your loss without it becoming a whole thing? Um, this is honestly one one of the things about having a dead dad that is just so annoying to me.

SPEAKER_02 19:33

It's such an inconvenience in my life.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

It is so like when you mention that your dad is dead, and I think it's also because I'm 25 and you're also still young that like probably this will get better as we get older because then you're at an age where it's more normal to have a deceased parent. But man, like just the whole room goes quiet and feels like you murdered someone in that moment. Yeah, and then you feel like you're responsible for dealing with the awkwardness, and it's just something that annoys the shit out of me. And I know nobody's doing it to be like there's no malintention behind it, but no, I you can't change that people are shocked, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:22

And some people have nice reactions, and some people just like I also I react so badly when I have to tell someone sometimes because I get uncomfortable waiting for them to be uncomfortable, waiting for this to be an awkward moment of like, well, anyway, she makes some kind of a joke and then move on. Yeah, or I try to say it really quickly. Yeah, yeah. My dad died in 2018, and we um we anyway, and then I moved and they were like, wait, your dad died? And I'm like, Yeah, yeah. Anyway, uh, let's move on to the rest of the conversation because this is not what we're talking about, and I don't want any of us to feel uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

I know, but then it's not my pro like in a way, it's not my problem if they feel uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_02 21:09

Yeah, but then at the same time, if they're like, Oh, I'm sorry, I don't know what to say.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:14

Like, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

If okay, see, this is I think I'm sorry for your loss is fine after the fact. Like, let's say up until a year after the fact. But then move on.

SPEAKER_02 21:29

Like, if I say independent conversation, do not say it's been a year, move on.

SPEAKER_01 21:37

No, and I think this is very specific for me. It doesn't apply to other people. But I feel like if I mention in a conversation, yeah, well, no, because my dad is dead, we don't talk that much anymore. Um, I don't need people to get quiet and be like, oh my god, I'm so sorry. Um, just be like, oh, okay, moving on.

SPEAKER_02 21:57

You can say I'm sorry, but also be willing. To move on with the conversation. Yeah. Or like, oh, that sucks. Or if you're interested, you can say, like, oh, what happened? And if we're close enough, I'll tell you about it. But yeah, I've also had moments where I feel like the person wants to ask, and I'm like, I'm not just going to offer up this information. I don't just like, and this is what happened. Here's a play by play. It was it was three o'clock in the morning. A phone call came. No, like if you're interested, I will tell you. But if you don't ask, I'm not gonna tell you because I don't want to make you uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

Um yeah. So how do you tell people about loss in your life without it becoming a whole conversation?

SPEAKER_02 22:38

I talk about it really quickly and try to move on. It's not a good strategy. And honestly, sometimes I just don't. Yeah, like I agree. Sometimes the relationship does not warrant me telling you.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

Yeah. I mean, so we're half American and we have our dad's last name, so that's McKenzie. And so for me, it'll come up quite a bit. Like, oh Mackenzie, where's that name from? And I used to say my dad was an American, but then people would be like, Oh, did he give up his citizenship? Like, no, he died. Now I found it makes me feel awkward. Yeah, I found it's easier if I just say, yeah, I'm either my dad's an American or I'm half American on my dad's side.

SPEAKER_02 23:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

Fine. Then if we get into it later on, sure. It's not that I'm if if it's if they're not close, I don't feel like I need to get into it with them.

SPEAKER_02 23:39

No. But also if like if you make the joke of is he no longer American, you best be expecting I say something like, no, he had to give that up when he died, and look at me very judgingly, even though I'm not judging you, but you're gonna feel like more you're gonna feel more like shit than I do, because I think it's funny. Because you're making a joke, assuming that I have an alive father, and now you're uncomfortable. Yeah, yeah. I've also, but like, okay, if you have not lost a parent, I do want to say I understand that having someone joke about being a half orphan or whatever uncomforta is uncomfortable for you because you've never gone through this loss, and it's something maybe you don't want to be confronted with. But too damn bad! You guess just yourself too damn bad. I am going through shit. I get to joke about it. I remember when Sharon's dad was passing away, she called and she didn't know what to say, and she was like, Guess who's joining the half orphan club? And I was like, hey, that sucks. And but like she, you know, it's that's funny. If she had called anyone else with a dad, they probably would have been like, oh no, what happened? Which I was, but at first I was like, oh fuck.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

Which is okay, but what I think is unacceptable is you can't make a joke like that. Yeah. Bro, he was my dad. He's my dad. It's my grief. If anybody I can't make a joke about your dad being dead, no, I can make a joke about my dad being dead.

SPEAKER_02 25:22

And if we're close enough, you can make a joke about my dad being dead.

unknown 25:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:27

That's a fine line to walk, and you gotta be very sure of yourself. Yes, I agree.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

But I think shaming somebody who's going through grief about making a joke about their grief is diabolical.

SPEAKER_02 25:40

Yeah. I don't know if that's ever happened, and I think if I did other things. It's happened. Who do you think I got this humor from? It's the dead guy, the guy who died.

SPEAKER_01 25:50

I know. That's the best thing is if like people are like, oh no, you can't make that joke. I was like, I know he's finding this hilarious right now. This is for him, bitch. It's not my entertainment.

SPEAKER_02 26:05

If he is watching from wherever, up there, down there, wherever he might be, he thinks this is hilarious. And you being uncomfortable with it is even more hilarious. Even better.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

Okay, last question. Last question. This is a bit of a sad one. It is. What would you want them to know about who you have become?

SPEAKER_02 26:30

I think. Okay, I don't know if this is weird. I still write letters to dad occasionally. So that's adorable. That's adorable. And sometimes I just kind of like to tell him. But I think it's been a while since I've written him. But sometimes when I'm on vacation or I'm hiking or something and I have a iPad or something, I'll like write him a letter. And where do you put it? I think I have like some on my iPad, but sometimes I just I don't know, I lose him. That's so cute. But I don't know. I think I just the only thing that I want him to know is that I'm like very proud to be his daughter. And that I'm figuring it out, and sometimes I'm like, I wish he would have known that he could have gotten more help than he was. And that we would have understood that, and like I'm trying to come to terms with who he was as a person and who I saw him as and all this complicated stuff, but at the end of the day, I think I got his humor, which is so unfortunate for everyone around us. Um and that, like, you know, he has some grandkids and yeah, his kids are are doing well, and despite him maybe not being the perfect father, I can just have a lot of appreciation for him. Wow. And, you know, I have a bunch of anxiety and stuff too. I have a lot of shit that I'm also working through. And a lot of stuff that I would have loved to get his opinion on, but I get to figure it out on my own. And that's okay too. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

Wow. I don't know what to add. That was very wholesome. Uh-uh. And we would talk to him and I'd be there like fine.

SPEAKER_02 28:35

Oh no, I do think one more thing that I would say.

SPEAKER_01 28:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:39

Of like, thank you for giving me my siblings. Yeah, I think that would. Okay, sorry, now I'm done being wholesome. Let's go back to joking about having a dead father.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

That's so cute. I don't have that, I don't have that much that I would say, I think. I think I would want him to know that I know that he did the best that he could with what was given to him. Yeah. But I feel like that's it.

SPEAKER_02 29:14

I think that's cool too. Like I think that's also a very like Yeah, that you understand kind of.

SPEAKER_01 29:21

Yeah. That's a weird thing to think about. It is. Yeah. I mean, maybe we see people we've lost, maybe not. I'm not sure what I believe. But I'd like to think that they're they somehow listen in on what's going on, or they are privy to it.

SPEAKER_02 29:40

Yeah. But who knows? Who knows? Maybe one day we'll find out. Maybe. Funny stories. Funny stories.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

I have I have two. Oh, I also have two.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

I have so many, actually. Good. Okay. Grief is kind of funny too.

SPEAKER_01 30:08

So Dad's death was very sudden, and whenever there's a sudden um death, like the police has to come by and make sure that there wasn't any like any murder involved. Basically.

SPEAKER_02 30:29

Did you do the murder? The police came knocking and they were like, excuse me, man, did you do the murder?

SPEAKER_01 30:38

Um, anyway. So since it was mom and I who were home when it happened, so we had to go to the police station. And our dad, he was like, he had a great sense of humor, and he really liked like prank people and to just ril people up a little bit. And when we got to the police station, the police officer said, I have no idea what's going on, but all of the computers shut down this morning, like nothing is working how it should be. And mom looked at me and she's like, It's Mick. This is exactly the kind of shit that he would pull. It was just so perfect that like nothing was working correctly. That's exactly the kind of prank that he would have pulled, and it kind of felt like he was still with us in a way.

SPEAKER_02 31:27

Yeah, that's nice. Yeah, it was really wholesome. I actually have one about mom and Layla. So a few months before our dad died, our grandma died. Um, and we did this like Buddhist ceremony for them where every morning and every evening we would do these prayer things. And it was a very snowy winter. And one of the days the car got stuck, and we had to go and like push it, and somebody fell on the ice and just like spread eagled. And I don't even remember if it was mom or Layla, but I remember Layla's mom's sister, our aunt. Yes, our aunt. Um, we were doing this prayer, and all of a sudden I just hear which, you know, everybody's kind of sad, and you're like, what was that? And then I was like, is somebody laughing right now? And I I honestly to god do not remember if it was my aunt or if it was my mom, but they went, I just keep thinking of you falling on your ass. And they both just bursted out into laughter, and the whole room exploded with laughter of this moment of one of them just like spread eagle, and they just like it was supposed to be, or like it was, you know, that we were doing this prayer, and we were just all laughing so hard. Oh, that's amazing. About a random moment, and I thought that was that was just such a nice moment to be a part of.

SPEAKER_01 32:57

My second funny story is I started to work at a new school, and whenever if you've lost a parent or somebody close to you, whenever you start like come into a new social group, you know, okay, at some point the topic of this deceased person is gonna come up. And um so we grew up bilingual, we or I you and I did, um, and I speak German at my school, and then randomly on break, one of the teachers said, You're half American, right? And I was like, Yeah, and he's like, So do you speak English with your dad? And I was I was distracted. I was doing something for work, so I didn't react how I usually do, but I looked up and I was like, Well, he's dead, so no. And I remember a teacher across from me just burst out laughing. Yeah, thank you. It was the best reaction ever because everybody was quiet and she just started laughing. She's like, I'm sorry, but the way you said that was just so dry, it just got to me. And she had also lost her dad, so I think she kind of got it. She's like, I'm guessing it's been a while if you can say it so nonchalant. It's like it's been a minute, minute. It was great, and then since she kind of broke the barrier of laughing, other people started to giggle, and it was so much more comfortable. Like, yeah, it was the best reaction that she could have one could have had in that moment.

SPEAKER_02 34:29

Yeah. I think in Mexico somebody asked, like, because I was like, Oh, I'm calling with my mom or I'm calling with my sister, and they were like, Do you do you call with your dad too sometimes? And I was like, Oh, he's really hard to reach. He died. He never picks up the phone, he never answers. I don't even know his area code anymore, to be honest.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

Um 100 afterlife.

SPEAKER_02 35:00

Um, but if my actual funny story was, I think it was at dad's memorial where when you're going through grief, a lot of people don't know what to say. So the thing they say is, I'm sorry for your loss, which there's nothing really to say. But I remember Lydia came up and she was angry. I mean, you were also a teenager, like I was 17 when he died, so you know that's like but I remember you came up to us and you were like, if one more person says, I'm sorry for your loss, I'm gonna punch them in the face. And we just started laughing, and you were like, I just don't want to hear it anymore. You were just so done. We were like, let's go outside.

SPEAKER_01 35:49

Yeah. I don't even remember, like, now that you say it, it's coming back to me, but that's not a core memory for me. That's so funny.

SPEAKER_02 35:56

It was a core memory for me because you were you were so annoyed with everyone, which was fair because you're at a memorial and everybody's like, I'm sorry for your loss. Thank you. That's uh yes, it's sad. Uh thank you, thank you. Yes, it's sad. Yes, I'm sad, I'm crying. Thank you. Yeah, I don't know what to say.

SPEAKER_01 36:11

And it's sweet, like, people want to show their appreciation, but at the at a certain point, there's only so many people you can hug until you're like, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:20

What I appreciated in those moments was when people would come up and tell a story about dad.

SPEAKER_03 36:25

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 36:26

And it's like, oh, I remember this one time, and then it's like, oh, I get to I get to hear more or I get to experience more with this person even though he's not here.

SPEAKER_01 36:34

If you're dealing with it, I'm sorry. It sucks. It does get a little better. And you know what?

SPEAKER_02 36:41

If you're going through grief, you can be a bit of an asshole. This is the one time I'll allow it. True.

SPEAKER_01 36:47

I agree. Okay. Bye. See you later.