Mental Health Deep Dive Pt. 1

Myles and Haley start digging deep into mental health conversations, including questions from listeners about how to keep mental health as a strength.

Music Credit: Luke Bergs, LiQwyd

Send us your questions! lettersfromelsewherewithfinn@gmail.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey guys, welcome to episode six of Letters from Elsewhere with Mr. and Mrs. Finn. Today we recorded in the middle of the day. We actually recorded this on Saturday. We ran into a couple things on Friday. So we recorded on Saturday and we got cut off a couple times by our napping children that woke up and heard us talking and came out to say hello. So I tried to cut it so that it made sense, but you still get to hear Lyra say goodbye at the end. But anyway, hope that you enjoy the episode and hope that you have a great week. Bye. Hunter's girls. You can do our clap today? Do our clap.

SPEAKER_05 0:39

And take it down.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Dang that was a good one.

SPEAKER_05 0:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Cool. Hey babe.

SPEAKER_07 0:45

Hey.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

How are you?

SPEAKER_07 0:47

Good. Hi, listeners.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Hello, listeners. Glad they're here for episode six. It's gonna be a great, great podcast.

SPEAKER_07 0:54

Episode six.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Episode six. We are talking about mental health this time.

SPEAKER_07 0:57

Mental health abroad.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

It is a good topic to discuss.

SPEAKER_07 1:01

It is.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

We've had kind of our ups and downs with it. But we're taking steps to make it better. We're taking steps to feel better about you know what we're doing and things that we should have been doing while we're while we're at at home too.

SPEAKER_07 1:18

But I think we're in the um uphill swing. We're starting to climb up the abroad moving international uh uh grief cycle.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

Yeah. Cause it is very cyclical. Like there are there are times when it feels really good, there are times when it feels really bad, but the whole journey, like you're talking about the the valley and the yeah, like the honeymoon phase and the like the anger and that's great.

SPEAKER_07 1:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

So anyway, that's what we're digging into this week. I think that would be great. What is um what absolutely unnecessary thing wrecked your mental health this week? Unnecessary.

SPEAKER_07 2:06

So like something really minuscule.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

Stupid that just set you off.

SPEAKER_07 2:11

That set me off.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

Yeah. For me, what makes me crash out is being around people.

SPEAKER_07 2:18

L OL, because you're a teacher.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

No, like, no, not that way. I mean, being around large groups of people drives me bonkers. I think I was thinking about this.

SPEAKER_07 2:30

So the stroller today at the book fair.

SPEAKER_00 2:31

Yeah, that's exactly what made me crash out today. Um so but I was thinking about this at show choir compositions at musicals and things like that. I was normally in control of so many people. Not that I'm as that was in control, but they were under my direction. Yeah. Does that make sense? So I wasn't the one controlling them per se, but to an extent I was. There's a difference when it's strangers. Yeah. And then so that's that's I think where that anxiety comes from, is because I am so used to having to control that many people, specifically kiddos. And then when I don't have any power in those moments, it feels very like I think that's why you've always hated crowds. Probably.

SPEAKER_07 3:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

I just get anxious anyway, though.

SPEAKER_07 3:23

How's that noise?

SPEAKER_00 3:25

It sounds like a plane.

SPEAKER_07 3:27

Ooh, something for me.

SPEAKER_02 3:29

That's very loud.

SPEAKER_07 3:30

Something little that made me crash out. Um it has to do with uh our kids, but it's not our kids. It's the task of which we're doing.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 3:57

What do you think it is?

SPEAKER_00 3:58

Uh is it brushing teeth? No. Oh, that one's a rough one though.

SPEAKER_07 4:04

That one's been rough lately.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Um taking a shower?

SPEAKER_07 4:09

Putting their gloves on.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_07 4:12

And it's not even, you know, it's the reason it was one of our mornings where I think we were running really late. Yeah, and then it's been chilly. And it's been chilly, and so we've had to bundle up and um it's a fair crash out though.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

I will say that.

SPEAKER_07 4:27

But it's not even the kids' fault because they're standing there so yeah, good. Um so it was Lyra.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

Doesn't know how to put gloves on yet.

SPEAKER_07 4:37

No, and so we get to do it, but she was so good though. She just stood there and I mean it was my, it was my issues and it wasn't Lyra. It wasn't like she was moving.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

I was laughing at her one time because I was like, Okay, well, hold your hand like this, and then when you put your hand in, you're gonna go like that. And then she would just go, put her hand just full ass fist. Because again, she's two.

SPEAKER_07 4:58

Um, no, but my crash out was uh she put them in, and then like, you know, like three of them are stuck in one, and so then you're trying to like wiggle them around, and then it's like you get one, and then it goes back, and so then I was like, Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Just getting fingers in case.

SPEAKER_07 5:18

She was just like, she was standing there, just so cute, just like this, and she goes, Oh, mom, what's wrong? What's wrong, mom? I was like, nothing, sweetheart. It's a mommy, it's mom's. It's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

She is so sweet about little little things like that. Sometimes, sometimes she she has a crash out about it more than we do.

SPEAKER_07 5:39

And she has learned, for those of you who know Lyra, know that she is a diva taken after her mother. And some of you, she is she's my karma though. Yeah, um, she's sassy and cute. Um, but she in in true Lyra fashion, when she crashes out, she'll go, uh and down to the side. I was really and it's usually they're fair crash outs. Usually we're we're like, okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

Okay. That makes sense. That's absolutely great. Yeah. Um, okay. So questions for this week are all kind of based around mental health. We talked about that a little bit. But the it it goes and it starts with some lighter stuff, and then we talk a little bit, we get a little bit deeper as we're going along. Sure. Um, also along that, I have questions from listeners, people that had submitted questions about mental health that they want to talk about. So I do want to make sure that we get to that today.

SPEAKER_07 6:41

Depending on time, too. Maybe we'll need to make this a part two.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

This could be it.

SPEAKER_07 6:45

This we could take this into the because I would love this is a really important topic, I think, just for us to talk about, but also for listeners and mental health in general. So I don't think we have to rush this.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

If it needs, if it needs time. And this could also be something that we talk about on a regular basis, too. Like we're still trying to figure out we can do check-ins. Yeah, still trying to figure out what our style is. Look at how bad these freaking curtains look.

SPEAKER_04 7:08

That's fine.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

Come on, man. Anyway, so our intro question. The intro question in this, this is kind of the overarching theme of the whole of the whole show. But why do you think mental health has become such a big conversation for families lately? Families specifically. I think you could also take that into why has it become so important in schools? Um, but then the second question is if you had to describe your current mental health in three words, what would it be? So we're talking about general mental health in families, in schools, and then we're also talking about our own mental health. And I think within that we could talk about our we could talk about our journeys as expats as well. Yeah. Because there has been, we have both gone through lots of different ups and downs with all of it. But anyway, so the I think so what was the first question? So the first one is why do you think that mental health has become such a big conversation with families?

SPEAKER_03 8:04

Sure, sure, sure.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

Yeah. Um and I don't know that we necessarily need to answer that right now because I think all of the questions that we're gonna talk about are gonna be related to that.

SPEAKER_07 8:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

So maybe I'll come back to that towards the end. Well unless you want to attack it. Are you excited to do that?

SPEAKER_07 8:16

I just have like right away, I can be like, yeah, go. Um, I think it has become such a point of conversation in families, is because the stigma of mental health is getting better. Um and so it is more talked about, it is more encouraged to take better care of your mental health. Um, there are more people speaking out about it and the importance of it. Um, and I think just this day and age, there's we are in a mental health crisis, especially um coming out of Iowa and coming out of America. If those of you that don't know, um Iowa, the state of Iowa in the United States is very low on the totem pole for um mental health um resources and help. And so um to give an example about that, can I jump in?

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Yeah. So while we were there and and one of the wonderful things that helped out a lot of the state of Iowa was the Heartland AEA.

SPEAKER_04 9:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

And I'm sorry, the AEA in general, which is which is the area education agency.

SPEAKER_07 9:20

Ours was Heartland.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

Isn't that what AEA stands for? Area education agency.

SPEAKER_07 9:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

And so what do you say, what would you say that their tasks were? What were their resources? Because you had to deal with them, you got to work with them much closer than I did.

SPEAKER_07 9:34

Um, yeah, I I work with being a school counselor, I worked hand in hand with them, especially with special education students. Um but I mean they would come in for anything, whether it was um looking for students and wanting to make goals, whether it's behavioral or educational. Um we utilized their free resources to test out Rory's speech at one point. Yeah. Um, they're just they're really a they're a really important pillar in schools.

SPEAKER_00 10:08

They were offering an incredible amount of services, they were offering resources for teachers, resources for parents, they're the ones that bring in the social workers and the psych the psychologists, and yeah. And so if you like an incredibly large cornerstone in the mental health system within education in the state of Iowa.

SPEAKER_07 10:26

And they're all wonderful people. Like we, so many of them were our friends.

SPEAKER_00 10:31

And I wish I and you might know better than me, but what exactly happened to the education agency?

SPEAKER_07 10:39

Well, I mean, I mean, it comes down to they took away funding.

SPEAKER_00 10:43

They took away a lot of funding.

SPEAKER_07 10:44

A lot of funding, and so then cutbacks were happening and people weren't guaranteed their jobs anymore.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

Um that affected that affected SEL in schools, that affected these resources that we are talking about in schools. That affected all of these wonderful people that were doing wonderful things in in education systems.

SPEAKER_07 11:04

Yeah, I wish I had Christy Tinder on here right now. Yeah, Christy was awesome.

SPEAKER_00 11:07

I'm trying to think who else um that we knew that was a good idea. Elizabeth Windjamm. Elizabeth Windjam was amazing. And you know, these these wonderful people that are doing wonderful things for students. So so that is an example. That's an example of of how the mental health situation in the state of Iowa was depleting.

SPEAKER_07 11:24

And that's not that's not even scratching the surface. It really isn't.

SPEAKER_00 11:27

It really isn't. I mean you you you think about I don't know. I don't really want to get into it. That I don't know enough about. Yeah, you can get them all up on a soapbox. Yeah. And there are things that oh crap, I just kicked my camera. There are things that that I could speculate about that I don't, I I just don't know enough about.

SPEAKER_07 11:48

We could do our research more and then come back later.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

Yeah, but I know that there were things that were that were not working well and were affecting a lot of people. I would say we got to see it firsthand, students that were struggling and were not given the resources that they needed.

SPEAKER_07 12:01

Yeah, well, and like some of it was well, you don't have money and then you don't have the people and you don't have yeah. And so kids were just falling through the cracks in especially in public education.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

So I think that is also related to the stigma behind getting a counselor. The stigma behind pursuing therapy is something that I think was incredibly strong in the state of Iowa. There were people that were very, very against it. Thankfully I think that's everywhere, sadly.

SPEAKER_07 12:34

It's getting better.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

I would say it's it's definitely more related to a conservative population of people. Would you say that that's the case?

SPEAKER_07 12:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:43

I d I don't know what exactly that is. Um and generational. And it's a generally generational thing.

SPEAKER_07 12:50

It's getting better. I think it starts with us millennials, and then it's getting better as the kids are younger about wanting to talk about mental health, and it's um getting help. And yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:03

Yeah. And that was something that you and I both had not done prior to moving here, but then we uh therapy. Yeah. Pursuing therapy.

SPEAKER_05 13:11

Wanted to.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

But then we both started since we've been here.

SPEAKER_05 13:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

And that has been absolutely wonderful. I have connected really quickly with my therapist and we've gotten to dig deeper into, you know, some things that I've wanted to talk about for a long time. And then also talking about more recent feelings of what it's been like being here, like my trigger or when I when I am, you know, like set off on something. Most of the time my immediate reaction has been anger recently, which sucks. And I hate that so much.

SPEAKER_07 13:41

You're working on it.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

I am working on it. And so um so that's been my the a lot of the conversations that I have had with with my therapist. And that's been really good. And and she's helped put it into perspective. She said on on multiple occasions, she's been super sweet about it, saying, like, hey, you have been in a different country. You have moved out of everything that you have ever known for 30 years of your life, 31 years of your life, and now you're embarking on this new thing. You have to give yourself grace. And I think everyone in some way, shape, or form can can give themselves grace at some point in their life because they are doing something different. They're doing something new, they're doing something.

SPEAKER_07 14:23

Yeah, I think everybody needs therapy.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 14:26

But I always say everybody that you meet has some sort of trauma. It's just whether it's a little T or a big T. And your little T's don't mean that they don't matter and they haven't impacted you. And so I think everybody needs therapy, and therapy would be good for them at some point in their life.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

And just to have somebody that is totally unbiased, unbiased talking to you, asking you questions, letting you parse through the thoughts that you have in your own head is a beautiful, beautiful thing. Yeah. And so important. I think everybody needs to go through it. Yeah. It's been really great for the both of us. We've been doing it for three, four weeks now.

SPEAKER_07 15:07

This will be my third. You started before me.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 15:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

That's great. Okay. So we'll keep digging into that. The second question was if you could describe your current mental health in three words, what would it be?

SPEAKER_07 15:19

My current mental health.

SPEAKER_00 15:21

Three words. I don't I don't love questions like that.

SPEAKER_07 15:24

Yeah. But um what's the I'll just say something.

SPEAKER_00 15:39

Whatever those three words. That's that's the first three words that popped in my head. Um they aren't even words though. I can't think of three words, to be honest.

SPEAKER_07 15:49

Um I'll just say that I'm like I'm working on it.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

Working on it.

SPEAKER_07 15:53

Yeah, it's um ups and downs. It's a roller coaster. Yeah. I've had more I've had more better days lately than I had a month ago, which is in typical expat fashion. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:05

Um because we adjusting.

SPEAKER_07 16:08

We're adjusting. Yeah, yeah. And it takes time. And everyone says the expat life takes about a year, a full year to adjust to. Yeah. Um, so we have a lot of time and a lot of ups and downs in between then, but we'll get there.

SPEAKER_00 16:22

And that's okay.

SPEAKER_07 16:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

What is one okay, so we're digging into some lighter stuff. We're gonna start with some lighter stuff. Okay. What is your pettiest mental health trigger? And I'll say it this way.

SPEAKER_05 16:38

Pettiest?

SPEAKER_00 16:39

I'm gonna take the words mental health out of there. Yeah what is your pettiest trigger? What's the thing that you just like whenever it happens to you?

SPEAKER_07 16:49

It has to be petty.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

I think petty or just you can say funny as something that's funny that that sets you off like crazy. Like like past the point of gloves, you know. I I would say even pettier than like Lyra putting on gloves. So for me, and this is this is related to my older brother, not as bad as what his his issue is. Oh, sure, sure, sure. But mine is when somebody stop it. When somebody is chewing with their mouth open, even mouth sounds don't necessarily do it for me as bad, but it's the mouth is open, the chomping, the you know, just like immediately drives me.

SPEAKER_07 17:31

Is that like misophone? Mesophonia.

SPEAKER_00 17:35

Misophonia.

SPEAKER_07 17:36

Hmm.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

Do you have one related to that?

SPEAKER_03 17:41

Not really.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

Noises or something that somebody says or something that somebody does.

SPEAKER_07 17:49

Mansplaining.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

Mansplaining? That's fair.

SPEAKER_07 17:52

That's a fair especially when it's my job.

SPEAKER_00 17:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 17:56

Or when I've done some, or like something that doesn't need to be mansplained, and someone thinks that it does. And you're like, you know, my tell. Okay, so for those of you that don't know me well, my tell when I'm like Okay, so when I'm in a conversation and I'm questioning what a person is saying, or I'm in my head, I'm saying, I think you want to think about that a little bit more, or try again.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

Pause.

SPEAKER_07 18:24

Or like, hmm, that's interesting. And it's my head tilt.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

I'll be like, or sometimes, yeah, sometimes there's a that goes along with that.

SPEAKER_07 18:33

Like if I just like if it's a if it's a conversation, I would never do that in like a nice conversation. It's more of like an annoying conversation, or somebody does something where I'm like, mmm, let's try that again.

SPEAKER_00 18:45

Yeah. We could. I'd rather you rather you didn't. Mans planning happened. Mans planning is a fair crash out, though.

SPEAKER_07 18:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

Not necessarily petty.

SPEAKER_07 18:54

Yeah. I don't really know anything. Like, what's petty? Like, what do you think I have? What's mine? I'm a really patient person.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

You are patient.

SPEAKER_07 19:04

I have crash-outs, but I don't know that I have like a consistent petty one.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

I don't know.

SPEAKER_07 19:10

Like with noises or anything.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

I'll have to think about it. Yeah. People chewing with their mouth open is.

SPEAKER_07 19:15

Yeah, I mean, that's gross.

SPEAKER_00 19:17

Makes me lose my damn mind. If adults had this is fun. If adults had a required mental health recess, what would that look like?

SPEAKER_07 19:29

Screaming. Yeah. Um.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

I think it's like those um, what's the the rage rooms?

SPEAKER_07 19:37

Yeah, rage room.

SPEAKER_00 19:38

There would be a rage room. Rage room.

SPEAKER_07 19:41

No, it'd have to be like a pavilion, and there'd have to be like cornered off sections. So there'd be like a rage room, there would be karaoke, there'd be calming corner with coloring and play-doh, there'd be a nap room, reading room. Yeah. It's like everybody.

SPEAKER_00 19:59

Could you imagine? I don't want to recess.

SPEAKER_07 20:01

Oh. We should, we should uh should implement that. We should implement that at AIS E.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 20:06

Darren?

SPEAKER_00 20:07

Darren, it's coming to you. We're gonna do recess for the adults.

SPEAKER_07 20:10

Adult recess. Adult recess. Mental health redrew.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

How much fun would that be?

SPEAKER_07 20:18

Amazing.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

What is a this should not have stressed me out this week, but it did moment. Should not have stressed me out, but it did. Back to the stroller. So we walked, we walked on Thursday. It was not today's stroller incident.

SPEAKER_07 20:36

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

When okay. Have we just we've described our stroller, right?

SPEAKER_07 20:43

Yeah, we talked about last night.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

So it's the mocking bird, it's the mocking bird stroller. And normally it's got the one seat for the kid. Now it's got two, so they're they're right in front of each other.

SPEAKER_07 20:53

She's intense. She's in front. She's big.

SPEAKER_00 20:55

She goes nuts. She has to be strapped in because otherwise you're talking about like I'm still talking about the stroller.

SPEAKER_07 21:00

I'm like, she's big. And you're like, and she has to be strapped in.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

Larry the big girl.

SPEAKER_07 21:07

No, the stroller is intense.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

The stroller is intense.

SPEAKER_07 21:10

But yes, Lyra does have to be.

SPEAKER_00 21:15

But because of the setup of it, it is very front heavy. And so when we're walking and we go to a curb, oh yeah. You have to and lift it up so that that it can one more time. Yeah, so that I can go up the curb. But every once in a while, I will assume that the curb is not too big.

SPEAKER_07 21:38

Or it's like flatter than what it is.

SPEAKER_00 21:39

It's flatter than what it is. And so I'll check that curb and just and that sucks so bad and makes me lose my mind so fast. What was the question though? Shouldn't that have stressed me out? It didn't stress me out. It's just it's basically just what have been our crash outs this week.

SPEAKER_07 21:56

Oh, do you know what one of mine is though?

SPEAKER_00 21:58

Stressed you out?

SPEAKER_07 21:58

It's like Like a crash out. Um it's having to bundle up, and then by the time I get to school, regardless if I'm if we're walking or on my bike, wetting your balls off.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

Sweating.

SPEAKER_07 22:12

Yeah, that's that makes me so angry. Where it's cold outside, so you have to bundle, but then I'm sweaty by the time I get to work.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

I can't, I'm so hot. Oh, the worst. I like it. I like being sweaty.

SPEAKER_07 22:28

Yeah, that's gross.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

Yeah. I also sleep really hot too, though.

SPEAKER_07 22:32

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

Hot box.

SPEAKER_07 22:35

Just like your children take after you. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

I think I think those were all of our silly questions.

SPEAKER_07 22:42

Okay, let's go a little bit deeper here. A little deeper here.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

Do you feel more overwhelmed or more burnt out recently? Duh. And what is the difference to you between being overwhelmed and burnt out?

SPEAKER_07 22:56

Do I feel I have to pick one that I feel?

SPEAKER_00 23:01

Have you felt more of one or the other?

SPEAKER_07 23:04

Burnt out, no.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 23:06

Overwhelmed, yes.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

And what what would you say the difference is between the two? Because I think that there are a lot of people, especially that are listening to this show that we have talked to closely that have talked a lot about burning out.

SPEAKER_07 23:21

Yeah, burning out is losing your joy, losing your spark. Yeah. Um, it's not enjoying what you're doing anymore. It's hard to find the good moments. There's more bad things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

Yeah. So can you feel overwhelmed and not burnt out?

SPEAKER_07 23:41

Yeah. 100%. Well, and I think I guess I wouldn't say I felt burnt out as a social worker. Sure. I would say um there were moments of burnout in school counseling, but not overall, if that makes sense. So um, like uh there were some really tough weeks where I was like burnt out by the end of those, but it wasn't from like the profession or overall. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

Um so you think of it as like a candle, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like you just had to replenish the candle because the wick was already done.

SPEAKER_07 24:16

Because it like passed overwhelm because of what was happening and I was burnt out, and there was a lot, like the time that I'm thinking of, there were a lot of different aspects to that.

SPEAKER_04 24:27

I know what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_07 24:28

Um, but I was very burnt out from social work and I left the profession after that because I lost complete joy. Yeah, I lost it. You were great at it, but I was a social worker working in mental health and substance abuse in Iowa. Um, and it was really hard. I love the people. It's really hard to do a job like that, especially in a state that felt like it didn't care about people's mental health. Yeah. Um, yeah, so I was very burnt out and I really spiraled, and it was really hard for me to get out of bed. I had no idea what I wanted to do. I cried all the time. Um I just couldn't do it. And I lost, I lost my joy. Um, and that wasn't why I entered social work. So I knew there needed to be a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 25:21

So that was that was burnout.

SPEAKER_07 25:22

That was burnout. Burnout overwhelm is um there's a lot going on. Maybe you've had some stressful situations, maybe things aren't going how you'd like them to. Maybe you're dealing with some difficult coworkers or parents or people, and maybe you're not getting the support that you'd love, but it doesn't ever like cross the threshold. It gets it always gets better, right? When you think of being burnt out, it's like a it's a like a snowball that's getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger until you like can't do it anymore.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

But it's an important understanding, and I think letting people take the moment to check in with themselves and and ask themselves, are am I overwhelmed?

SPEAKER_03 26:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:07

Probably. Especially if they're can this be fixed, especially if it's a music teacher that's listening.

SPEAKER_07 26:12

I you guys are busy.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

You are overwhelmed. You are overworked, you're overappropriated. You're overworked, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 26:18

Underpaid, underpaid, underappreciated. Teachers in general, I think.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

But checking checking in with that be because I think it is important to be able to be able to see am I am I overwhelmed because of the amount of work that I'm doing right now, or am I actually burning out? And if you're actually burning out, take a step back and and check in and see what is it about what you're doing that is burning you out. And I and I say music education, but I think that it can be for any profession that you're in.

SPEAKER_07 26:46

Yeah. Yeah. Any profession. Yeah. Healthcare, corporate.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

For sure.

SPEAKER_07 26:51

Like you're going to be able to do that. You ready for your second one with it?

SPEAKER_00 26:53

It's it's we're all going along these same lines a little bit.

SPEAKER_07 26:56

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

Um, what's one misconception about mental health you wish adults would let go of? I think along those lines, it's that you have to push through.

SPEAKER_07 27:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

It's that you don't get to give yourself grace and time to pause and reflect. That's something I feel again, back to music educators. I think that's something that they were terrible at, is that they would always just push, push, push, push, push, and then they they break a bone or something, and then they finally have to sit and relax. You know, they don't a lot of those people wouldn't give themselves time to pause. And so I think the misconception is you have to let yourself pause. You you don't have to push through. There's so many people that just force themselves to push through these terrible times or these these things that aren't going the way that feel good to them or whatever it is.

SPEAKER_07 27:51

And I think that that is that's a it's a bad place to be the misconception that I I that came to my mind was that therapy is not for everybody.

SPEAKER_02 28:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 28:03

Because I I truly believe therapy is for everybody. However, it can also be a really hard thing to get into. It can be hard to find the right therapist. Um, if you have a therapist and you have a bad experience, that can be really hard to feel like it's right for you or jump back in. Um, I have this conversation a lot with my kiddos who have had a not so great experience with therapy or counselors, and they just want to be done with it. And I tell them all the time, therapy is like shopping. Yeah, you try it on, and if it doesn't fit, you exchange it and you put it back and you try something new. Yeah, it's not a one and done thing, but if you are committed to change and wanting to heal and get better, sometimes you have to be okay with the little speed bumps in it too. But I know that it's hard. Right. Um I I know that's hard. And the other thing is, is I think the misconception is not that um not that therapy is not for everyone. It's like you have to be ready. Like you have to, you have to want it too, because therapy will not be good for you or heal you if you're not ready to be vulnerable and open up, maybe t take accountability, um, things like that.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

I think all those are good. And everybody needs to just do that, just take the step to actually start it. I think it's it can be really scary. It really is.

SPEAKER_07 29:37

Especially if you're grown up where you and your family don't talk about your feelings, or your feelings are um people have told you that you know, like rub some dirt in it, like your feelings don't matter. Um it can be really hard and it can be really scary, but I think it's worth the jump when you're ready.

SPEAKER_00 29:59

For sure. Okay. Next question.

SPEAKER_07 30:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

What's something you wish you could tell your younger self about mental health?

SPEAKER_07 30:08

Um so something I'm working on with my therapist right now is working through feelings of how um that my feelings and I am too much. I think that stems from I'm a very emotional and sensitive person, and I always have been. And I think there have been times where I felt like I'm too much for people, or my feelings are too much. People have made me feel like my feelings are too much. Um, and that has really taken root in me, um, and something I have been working really hard on, and it's getting better, but um that's hard. That's like a hard thing to work yourself out of when it's when it feels like it's been uh something hard for you for a really long time. So um I think I would tell myself that I'm never too much, and that my feelings aren't too much for the right people, and that my sensitivity isn't a weakness, it's a superpower, and not to waste my time people pleasing and trying to fit in where I didn't belong, and with people and doing things that didn't serve me or make me feel good, um, and to be myself and all the right people will come along and they won't make you feel like you're too much or make you feel like you have to be somebody that you're not. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:49

Um I think I would tell my younger self just to learn to pause a little bit more, learn to learn to like give give myself grace with things because I think I was so quick to jump to conclusions about myself and about what I was doing. And I had I given myself the grace to just pause and and think back to where I was in that situation, or whatever, you know, giving myself that time that I needed, I think I would have been I don't want to say more successful, but I think I would have balanced myself out a little bit better when I needed to. I'm excited to have a better answer for that question. I that's also something that I'm talking about with with my therapist right now, is just kind of going through my childhood and talking through things that were that were tough or things that were good, or you know, and just kind of trying to parse through all of that. Well, and I think it's the uses of the word parse today.

SPEAKER_07 32:50

Well, and I think it it's interesting too because when you start diving into childhood or past things, um you start making connections you never even realized and like how it's impacted you as adults. Yeah. Because I'm starting to too.

SPEAKER_00 33:06

For sure.

SPEAKER_07 33:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:08

Okay. Uh Counselor Corner. So this is this is the time for Mrs. Finn to shine here. What's one mental health skill you teach kids that adults need just as much?

SPEAKER_07 33:23

Mental health skill that I teach students that adults need as well. Um I teach, hmm, what am I teaching a lot of right now?

SPEAKER_00 33:38

So you can talk about, I mean, what what is your main priority? Um, what is your main duty in your job right now?

SPEAKER_07 33:45

Um I teach a lot of reframing and positive self-talk. That is, um, I work with middle schoolers and high schoolers, and so I have lots of students who come in with anxiety and really negative self-talk. Um, reframing is a really great skill and tool, even that I use. Um, so it's taking your negative thoughts or a negative thought about something you're doing, and it's reframing it so that um it's just more positive and it and it's easier to move forward. So I'm like trying to think of um I'm trying to think of one. It's like when you think you're doing something wrong, and so it's a failure, and it's you reframe that mindset of, well, you know, I can learn from my mistakes and grow. Um, it's not getting stuck in that negative self-talk spiral, which is really easy to do, and it's learning how to reframe so that we can move forward with what we're doing. Um, and then as you practice that tool, hopefully, the hope is that reframing and having a better um way to express yourself and positive self-talk just comes easier, and it's and it's now a habit. Um, but it takes it takes a lot of work, it takes a lot of commitment because it's really easy to fall into the well, I messed up and now I failed, or now I'm not gonna try, or um, you know, that boy didn't like me, so now I'm you know, you can those are obviously like middle school and high school issues, but you can relate that to, you know, adults and loneliness and feeling like you're not doing well at your job, or feeling like um, I'd say mine is like my physical health, um trying to get better about doing that and just get being healthier, but it's really easy for me to fall into that downward spiral of like, why should I even do it? Um, but reframing and just saying like um showing up for myself, even if it's 10 minutes a day is better than nothing, you know. Right. Yeah, I'd say reframing is really important, and I know it probably sounds cheesy, but breath work.

SPEAKER_00 36:12

Seriously? Yeah, breath work is can be so helpful just to help, you know, even in the more even in a stressful situation, give just giving yourself that time to to breathe through something, I think, can be so impactful. Second one, how can parents tell when a child is struggling versus just having a bad day?

SPEAKER_07 36:35

Um I think kids who are struggling consistently are very shut down. They aren't you can see the changes in lots of different ways, and that's them maybe not wanting to be as involved in things, not wanting to spend time with friends or friends fr or spend time with you. Um, maybe they're not eating well, sleeping well, they're on their phone all the time, they're having issues at school, they're having relationship issues with people. Um I think a bad day is just I mean, they happen, and I think they're more they're more apt to talk about bad days. Or you're you can see the change of like from one day to the next. Like for me, sometimes I have a bad day and then I sleep on it, my next day is better. You know, when kids are struggling, that doesn't go away. It's like that.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

It's consistent and persistent.

SPEAKER_07 37:49

It's consistent, persistent, and it usually gets worse over time. Yeah. Especially if they're not getting help or yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:57

The other the other thing that's tricky about the consistent and persistent thing is that there are there are some kids that have gotten really good at masking.

SPEAKER_05 38:05

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:06

Really good at masking. I'm feeling I'm feeling great. Yeah. Duh. Can't you tell? Like, look at the smile on my face. Can't you tell that I'm the happiest kid?

SPEAKER_04 38:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:14

And you know that they're struggling and you can still feel that, and you still know that those things are are well, especially as parents.

SPEAKER_07 38:21

Like you know your kids. As a counselor, um, one of my qualities is I'm very observant. And so I'm a big vibe person where I can usually have a pretty I can usually have a pretty good read on someone, but I have to know them usually.

SPEAKER_03 38:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 38:39

Um, but I'm very observant, and usually I can tell the masking kids because what they're saying doesn't match their behavior. And sometimes it's like minuscule things.

SPEAKER_00 38:51

I've been trying to think about what you're good at with that, and I think you read body language incredibly well. I think you read body language really, really well.

SPEAKER_07 39:00

I think I have to because sometimes kids don't want to talk right away.

SPEAKER_00 39:03

Yeah. And you can kind of tell that when they start loosening up and then you're like, hook, line, sinker, go. And I think go. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_07 39:12

Well, yeah, and that's even like body language coming into the room because I think there's that's like a school counselor stigma is that kids only go to the school counselor when they're in trouble, and that still is very much an uh issue and stigma in schools. And so I work really hard to build relationships and be seen in the building um and outside of my office because I don't want them to think that, and I don't want them to only feel like they can come to me when there is a problem. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:41

I'm gonna give you one more. I think we are gonna run out of time here. Yeah. The the next one is what is a coping strategy that actually works, but people underestimate. You talked about one, you talked about breath work.

SPEAKER_07 39:59

Breath work, yeah. I know that might sound silly, but I'm actually working on that right now with my therapist. So my therapist really connects with like the body, and so we do a lot of breath work and like visualizing and grounding. And I just think breath work and grounding is so underrated and it's overlooked because you're like, I am breathing, duh. Like, what else? Yeah, I just think it's such a simple thing that it's so easily overlooked, and um I think that can like change like the whole moment if you take a step back and you're like, okay, like I'm I need to breathe through this first before I act or do anything else. And I do that as a counselor, um, as a person. I'm working on that too. Um, because I've always been like, yeah, breath work's great, but then I never really did it myself. And now that I'm connecting with that side of myself in therapy, I'm like, holy crap, like this works.

SPEAKER_00 41:03

Um can help you just like settle so quickly and feel so much better.

SPEAKER_07 41:08

And it probably seems silly, but it it does make a difference and it it engages your whole body and just gives you a moment of peace, and then it's like that pause you were talking about earlier. Sometimes that pause is really important so that you don't say or do things or make a choice that you're gonna regret later. Um yeah, I I really think breath work is underutilized, and um, I would even go as far as to say as like movement, like your trauma is stored in your body, and even if it's stretching or you know, meditation or yoga or um I think exercise and movement really helps that too, and the two together are chef's kiss. Chef's kiss, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:54

Love it. Okay, so I want to get into did you come up with any before we get into our next thing that I was gonna do with you, did you come up with any like this or that or no rate this questions? Okay, that's right. No, so um these are these are some questions that came in from listeners on on Instagram specifically. I don't know if you had any of those, but I but I had a handful that I wanted to talk through. So the first one is how do we hold space for each other's mental health struggles? I think the words holding space are what is impacting me right now. Just like that idea of of making sure that I give you the time and the space to feel what you need to feel. Whether it's if we're in a heated moment and just being like, okay, I'm just gonna shut up for a little bit and just let you feel what you need to feel, and then we can talk about it when we're both gonna be more productive. I think that is is a good thing. Or if it's the opposite and and you do need me closer by or you need more interaction and you want to talk through something, like I try to adapt my reaction to uh whatever your feelings you're feeling accordingly.

SPEAKER_07 43:14

Yeah, I think we're usually really good at communicating. Yeah. Um, and holding that space for us looks like communicating what we need and what we don't need.

SPEAKER_03 43:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 43:25

Um, sometimes it's just knowing that the other person is off and just either making space for them of like, hey, how can I help you? Or just letting them be.

SPEAKER_00 43:37

Um, I think it was kind of like how you talked about sleeping it off sometimes actually does help because we, you know, raising a four and two year old, we're tired a lot of the time. So I think that can often be that that concept of just letting time do its thing sometimes helps a little bit.

SPEAKER_07 43:55

Well, and I think knowing that it's um holding space for people In mental health, it it doesn't mean it's always personal, especially like between partners. Um I can't take your bad mental health day as is that it's a me issue all the time. And I used to. That is something I used to be really bad about, and it and it would like come out of like, I'm really sorry, I don't know what I'm apologizing for. I feel like you're mad at me. Are you mad at me? What did I do? And then it would like be a frustration thing.

SPEAKER_00 44:26

That was kind of like we had some codependency going on for a while. Yeah. So we have worked through that in order to be stronger individuals. And I think being parents has made us so much better at that too.

SPEAKER_07 44:36

Well, and we we grew up together. Um and so it's codependency like just kind of naturally happened, and then we had to kind of find ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 44:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 44:47

Um, but yeah, I think not not always taking it personal or thinking that it's personal because it's not, sometimes it has nothing to do with you. Yeah. And sometimes it has nothing to do with me. Um, but I think that's where communication comes in because um it if it's even if it's just to be like, hey, I just need to take a little bit, and we're like, okay, yep, yep, whatever you need.

SPEAKER_02 45:09

Gotta take a break.

SPEAKER_07 45:10

Um, yeah, it's just holding space for whatever that looks like and trying to make sure that we're communicating through it because it's when we stop communicating, that's when we have issues.

SPEAKER_00 45:20

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_07 45:21

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 45:21

For sure.

SPEAKER_07 45:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:22

The next one is how how to not take things so personally. Oh. So my my response to this, and the reason I say it this way is because I this is a response that I gave to a lot of my my high schoolers when I was talking to them. Um, is that there are very few times when people are thinking about you as much as you think they are. So sometimes that comes off kind of brash. Sometimes that me saying that comes off a little unempathetic. Is that a good word for it? Well, it's just because apathetic is the word that I'm looking for.

SPEAKER_07 46:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:04

But people think about you less than you think that they do. You are you sometimes that can that can come from within so much, and I think that that is a it's a dangerous thing to think about that everyone is thinking about you so much. Does that make sense? Are those are those words coming out of my mouth making sense?

SPEAKER_07 46:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I think what you're trying to say is it's the dangerous thought because we don't want to rely on other people like that.

SPEAKER_00 46:28

Correct.

SPEAKER_07 46:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:29

Correct. But taking things personally, is there some is there a different path that you would take to that? Not taking things personally.

SPEAKER_07 46:34

See, and that one's really hard for me because I'm still working really hard on that. Um I have grown up a people pleaser my entire life, and for a long time, I would just do whatever I felt like I needed to, um for for people to like me. But like that was sometimes skewed because then there were times where I felt like I would do things that didn't align with my own values or what was important and how I wanted to be remembered simply because I wanted to fit in. Um, and so then like there were times where I felt icky or like I wasn't the nicest. Um and so and I always took things personal, even when they weren't sometimes they were, especially as kids. Um people are mean and they're all always yeah, is it honky?

SPEAKER_02 47:26

It's just laying on the horn.

SPEAKER_07 47:28

Um gosh, I don't know. Um, what would I say now? Because I'm still working on it. I think when kids come into my office now and I talk about this and my experience with taking everything personal, I think you just um I go, I go to my motto of you're not gonna be everybody's cup of tea. Um, and I think it's silly, but it's important to remember that um you need to save your energy for the people who matter to you. Um, not everybody should get the same Haley and won't get the same Haley and won't get the same energy from the same amount of Haley, the same amount of yeah, like um because I have to protect my energy and have boundaries with people who don't align with me.

SPEAKER_00 48:21

That reminds me of what we do in the shadows, the energy vampire. You don't want to give the energy vampire your energy, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 48:28

Um, and so I talk a lot about like, well, do you want to be friends with this person? And then they're like, Well, no, and I'm like, okay, then don't. So we set the boundary, and you can be kind and you can be cordial. Yeah, but then that doesn't that can be as far as it that doesn't, that's as far as it goes, and I think that's what I would say for like taking things personal is that um yeah, you just you have to protect yourself and your energy, and you have to realize like sometimes it's just not personal, and sometimes people are having a really shitty day, and you can and like you just hope. I think I think going back and like being empathetic and like knowing um Okay, pause, pause really fast.

SPEAKER_05 49:13

What's not working?

SPEAKER_07 49:15

What time for one or two more, and then we might have to split this up into a part two.

SPEAKER_00 49:20

I think this will be this will be a two two-parter episode, and honestly, I think we're gonna start tying it into a lot more of our episodes because I feel like you and I can talk about this quite quite in depth, which is a good thing. Okay, I'll take this one middle high school choir teacher here. How do you combat burnout and exhaustion? Interesting, because I feel like we have just talked about this. So something that I did is I sometimes it was healthy, sometimes it was not healthy, but I tried to find things outside of school that brought me joy. And I say unhealthy because one of the things that I was doing was like playing more video games. Not a good healthy thing, not a good thing for me to be doing a lot of. Um, but then another thing was I got into cooking quite a bit while we were like when we were in the throes of musical season or show choir season or whatever. One one of the things that brought me a lot of joy when I had downtime was making things, was making food.

SPEAKER_03 50:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:21

Something to to bring joy to us while we had such a chaotic season. Um I think there are a lot of a lot of different pathways that you can take to feel better when you're going through burnout, when you're going through exhaustion. I think with burnout specifically, I would say go back to why did you pursue this career in the first place? Why did you decide to be a choir director to begin with? For me, I could easily say my experience with Warper Choir, the lessons that I learned from my educators throughout my choral direct, my choral experience, um, the relationships that I had with with my colleagues while I was getting my undergrad, the connection that I make with my students, things along those lines are easily answers to the question, why did I become a choir director? And I think that think back to that, think back to that answer. And is it something that you are willing to continue to fight for in the current position that you're in, in the current place that you are? Is it something that you're willing to fight for? If the answer is no, I think you know where to go from there. And if your answer is yes, great, keep going. And and but I think reflecting back onto why why did you get into this job in the first place? And I think you can you can really start to think through why you would like to either keep going or start looking into different things. I'm not telling you to quit, but you also need to understand that if you if it's to the point where it is so negative on your mental health, then you need to think of something else that's going to be more positive for you.

SPEAKER_07 52:02

And prioritize and prioritize if it's that you don't want to quit, then you have to prioritize what has to change to make it better.

SPEAKER_00 52:09

Yeah. There are so many, there are so many music directors, both band, choir, orchestra, whatever it is, that like are always self-flagellate, self-flagellating. Is that what that is?

SPEAKER_03 52:22

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 52:24

I think that's the word. There are always music directors that are so self-punishing on the things that they're doing. Sure. So they have to be the best and they have to give their themselves, they have to give themselves totally and completely to the work that they're doing. And if they're not sleeping in their office, then they're not doing the right thing or whatever. And it's so debilitating, and it can be so there's so much burnout. I can I can say that I have been that person before. And I hated it. Got to the point where I wasn't being the the father that I wanted to be, I wasn't being the husband that I wanted to be. And so I had to start thinking through what were my priorities. So think in regards to what are your priorities. Take the time to give yourself that grace to again pause and think through those things. And then from there, I think you can re-evaluate how to approach the situation so that you don't end up in this burnt-out situation again. I think that would be the best way that I would go for it. Okay. Um, there was the adults causing issues, not the students one. I don't remember that one. And that could maybe be one that we come back to.

SPEAKER_07 53:39

Yeah, if we feel like we're gonna talk a lot about that one.

SPEAKER_00 53:41

Yeah. Uh I think this is a great one to end on then.

SPEAKER_07 53:44

Perfect.

SPEAKER_00 53:45

Uh, how do you stay strong as educators, parents, and expats? What do we do to stay strong?

SPEAKER_07 53:55

We do things for ourselves, we do things together. Um, we hold space for that, uh, for whatever that is. So, like on Thursdays I go to pottery. Yep. Um, on Thursdays you teach choir. Um at night time. Sometimes it's getting the kids down and um being in the same vicinity, but you're playing video games and I'm reading my book. And um I think sometimes that looks like uh saying no to things, um, prioritizing our piece. Um it's okay to do that. It's okay to set boundaries. And I know sometimes that that might feel a little icky, or maybe you feel guilty. I know I used to feel that way, feeling like I had to say yes to everything. Um, but then like I was spread way too thin, you know, and then I wasn't doing anything while I wasn't and I wasn't happy. Um yeah, and I think communicating and being honest and transparent, like your feelings are your feelings, and they're they're never wrong. Um, so if you're unhappy, talk about it. If you're happy, talk about it. Um I think you have to have constant communication um with each other and ourselves and checking in with yourself of like, okay, why am I feeling this way? What am I gonna do to change it? Um yeah, and I think being an expat now kind of like launched us into some healing and growth as people.

SPEAKER_03 55:35

Force forcibly.

SPEAKER_07 55:36

Yeah, forcibly um, that we didn't even know we were ready for or that we needed. Um yeah, and I I know those some of those maybe sound really simple, but I think it comes down to basics of like communication and taking time for yourself and apologizing, like taking accountability and ownership and knowing that it's not every day is gonna be sunshine and rainbows, and that is okay. But something that we are really good at is you know, we're in this together. Um, we chose this together, and we're here for each other through all of that. Um yeah. What would you say?

SPEAKER_00 56:19

Um, I think things like this, like doing the podcast, is actually something that I have that I let me back up. I think that doing doing this is similar to journaling in that we're talking through we have a way to talk through not only the experiences that we've had recently, but also the thoughts that maybe we have been compiling over the last couple of weeks, a couple months, whatever. I think taking that time, taking this time to talk through those things is similar to a journal in that you you are literally taking the time to sit down and just let it all come out. And I think that that giving your mind to that kind of debrief time is so helpful to stay strong and and help yourself again prioritize what you're doing. I'm doing a lot with my hands this episode. Have you noticed that? Doing lots of hands.

SPEAKER_07 57:22

I'm always I am always doing stuff with my hands.

SPEAKER_00 57:24

Well, but mine have been very like karate choppy around my face. But I think if it's journaling, if it's podcasting, if it's having a conversation with a friend, if it's having a conversation with your animal, whatever it is, just giving yourself that time and that space to think I think is a is a good is a good way to go about it. And helps you set your priorities. I think that's a big message of our podcast today has been just giving yourself space to set priorities to put yourself first. Exactly. Exactly. Put yourself and and your your people, your family first. Okay, so we and again we're already at that at that hour mark, but we're gonna there's a lot more to talk about. There is a lot more to talk about. So we're gonna delve into this deeper next week because I still have half of a document of the questions that we are gonna ask each other for this week. So we'll delve into this further. I will again post for audience members to ask us questions if they want to, and then we'll go from there. But anyway.

SPEAKER_07 58:31

Right. Love you, love you, love you, love you, love you, Lyra.

SPEAKER_00 58:36

Lyra's here too. Bye, everybody.

SPEAKER_05 58:41

She's waving.

SPEAKER_00 58:42

You gotta wave.

SPEAKER_05 58:43

Can you say bye? Good job. Say see you next time. See you next time. Bye, guys. All right, bye.