We Let ChatGPT Ask the Hard Questions (Ep. 13)

Summary: In this episode, Robert and Shelly try something completely new: letting ChatGPT, loaded with content from their previous episodes, ask them questions that married couples really want answered. No notes, no preparation, just honest conversation.

Topics Covered:

1. Beliefs About Marriage We Had Completely Wrong

Shelly opens with sex — specifically how they both grew up in environments where it was taboo, never discussed, and surrounded by rigid, unhelpful beliefs. Robert shares how he assumed marriage meant constant intimacy, and how that expectation went unaddressed. Key takeaway: the absence of honest premarital education leaves couples to figure things out on their own — and not everyone does.

2. "I Love My Spouse, But I Don't Like Them Right Now"

Is this a moment, or a season? Robert and Shelly explore the difference between a difficult season and a deteriorating marriage. They introduce their "freight train" analogy — the initial love that pulls the relationship eventually needs something pushing from behind too. Bottom line: keep inviting each other in, and don't let unaddressed feelings fester into resentment.

3. What the Church Gets Right (and Wrong) About Marriage

The church values marriage — but too often teaches it one-sidedly, focusing on wifely submission while largely ignoring the husband's call to sacrificial love. Robert puts it bluntly: show him a husband who dies to himself daily, and he'll show you a wife with no problem submitting. They also highlight how co-teaching by couples (like their mentors Ty and Terri Schinzel) is far more effective than the typical solo male speaker model.

4. Marriage Problems vs. Individual Maturity Problems

More often than not, marriage problems are individual immaturity problems showing up in the relationship. You can't fix your spouse — you can only work on yourself, pray for them, and stay in your own lane. Robert asks a provocative question: what's your number two sin? The one you're not even looking at while you're focused on your spouse's?

5. The Sex Question Couples Are Afraid to Ask

Spoiler: it's "how often?" — but Robert and Shelly push back on the obsession with frequency. The better conversation is about desire types, not numbers. And if you're looking for a stat to pressure your spouse with... that's a different problem.

6. What to Warn Every Engaged Couple

Robert says: unmet expectations. They may be more destructive to marriages than adultery, substance abuse, or sexual addiction — because they quietly build resentment over time. Shelly adds: tone. How you speak to each other matters as much as what you say.

7. What's Changed About Their Parenting

Shelly: she used to prioritize outward behavior and appearances over her kids' hearts. Now she focuses on the heart first — even if that meant a "waiter phase" along the way. Robert: he used to think authority required volume and size. He's learned that true authority is quiet — like God in the still, small voice.

8. The Biggest Threat to Marriage Nobody's Talking About

Their answer: over-scheduled kids. Sports, activities, clubs — the busyness culture is robbing families of stillness, connection, and the hard conversations that actually strengthen marriages. You have the right to say no. The best thing you can do for your kids is love your spouse well — and point them to Jesus.

Contact & Questions:

Send your questions (anonymously) to: podcast@marriagebasecamp.com

Robert and Shelly welcome pushback, follow-up questions, and real conversations.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:32

Well, hello everybody. Welcome to the Marriage Base Camp Podcast. I am Robert. Of course, I'm here with the beautiful Shelly. Shelly. And uh man, today we are we're doing something we've never done before, and we are not sure how it's gonna go.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Could be crazy.

SPEAKER_04 0:53

It could be crazy, off the road, it could be wonderful, it could go off the rails really quickly. And if that's the case, um you'll never hear it. And so if you're hearing this, chances are it didn't go off the rails, at least too much. And so here's what we're doing. We uh obviously we we've had a lot of content that we've covered here in the Marriage Base Camp podcast. And so what I did is I sort of uploaded a lot of that content to our friend ChatGPT.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

This is crazy.

SPEAKER_04 1:25

And uh I'm we are gonna ask ChatGPT to ask us questions based on just the content we've covered, uh uh questions that married couples may have, things about kids, parenting, what whatever. Like I I don't think anything. I don't think anything is off the table, and we have no idea what it's about to ask what it's going to ask. We have not seen these questions in advance, and and we have no notes in front of us. Nope. We are just out here uh naked, as they say.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

Naked. Yeah, naked.

SPEAKER_04 2:03

So that said, are you are you ready? Has anybody ever done this? Surely we're not the first ones to I have no idea.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

But if you do actually have questions, you can email them to us.

SPEAKER_04 2:13

You can email your own questions, and all you got to do is send an email to podcast at marriagebased camp.com, and we'll get that. And uh it's all anonymous, don't worry, we're not gonna throw anybody under the bus. Um, but I promise if you have a question, other people probably have it as well. And so please send those questions in. And so, yeah, this is us sort of embracing technology. So you ready?

SPEAKER_03 2:42

I guess.

SPEAKER_04 2:43

Okay, we're gonna take these one at a time. So um let me see the first question here. What's one belief about marriage that you held when you got married that you are now convinced was completely wrong? What is one belief that we held about marriage when we got married that now we are convinced is completely wrong? I'll let you start.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

No. Uh my brain just went in like a thousand different directions.

SPEAKER_04 3:20

Pick one.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

Uh sex. Well, just coming.

SPEAKER_04 3:32

That's the one of the thousand things you could have picked, you go to sex.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

That was a lot of them.

SPEAKER_04 3:38

Um that's great, actually. Well, okay, what do you what do you mean?

SPEAKER_00 3:43

Well, just because we grew up in such there was only one way, and sex was dirty. You never talked about sex, and now been married for almost 30 years. I don't have that belief.

SPEAKER_04 4:00

When you say one way, you mean like one way to have sex, like missionary or something like that. Like missionary, yeah.

unknown 4:04

Right.

SPEAKER_04 4:05

God's only approved way of having sex.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

Right. Like you just you only had sex to have kids. Like sex procreation. And if the guy wanted it. Like it was never the women. I never heard any woman talk about sex.

SPEAKER_04 4:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

You heard men joke about it.

SPEAKER_04 4:25

I was about to say I never heard men talk about sex either, other than a yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:30

Right.

SPEAKER_04 4:31

Sort of a joking bravado type way. So what you're saying is um Yeah, I would agree with that. I feel like we didn't get any decent uh premarital counseling at all, especially in the in the topic of intimacy.

SPEAKER_00 4:54

Right.

SPEAKER_04 4:56

And so we were just sort of left to our own devices to figure things out on our own, which we did, which we did, which is great. Yeah, there's something to be said about that.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

Right. I just think does everyone figure it out though? Or has everyone been married 30 years as well, and they're still haven't learned anything, haven't been given the freedom to explore?

SPEAKER_04 5:19

Yeah. Did your parents ever have the talk?

SPEAKER_00 5:24

No.

SPEAKER_04 5:24

Anything about sex?

SPEAKER_00 5:25

I only heard I only heard them tell my brother if he did it, it would fall off. That was it.

SPEAKER_04 5:33

Oh, yeah, I think you said that before.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

That's it.

SPEAKER_04 5:36

The terror that must have been in that poor young man's mind. Um my parents never did either. I uh the only thing I remember is there was this little pamphlet, uh sort of like I don't even I don't even know what it's called, and it was all black and white and horrible. Wow. But it was just like, here are the male parts, here are the female parts. And but what was weird is this pamphlet was mysteriously in the drawer of our bathroom.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 6:07

Like my brother and I's bathroom. Like why would it be why would it be in there?

SPEAKER_00 6:11

That's weird.

SPEAKER_04 6:12

The only the only thing, the only reason is because they they hoped we would find it, right? Right, and read it and become experts, even though it wasn't even helpful. I did read it, don't get me wrong. I looked at all the pictures.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

My gosh. No, and even in high school with health, I had a coach, and we literally skipped over all those chapters.

SPEAKER_04 6:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

Like literally.

SPEAKER_04 6:37

I learned more about sex from my brother than I did my parents. And that is to say, not a lot and not great information.

SPEAKER_00 6:48

When you're that young.

SPEAKER_04 6:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

Yeah, I just it saddens me that I don't know. I feel like we've been a little bit of set-free, a little a little bit uh just in not so rigid.

SPEAKER_04 7:04

Yeah. I would say for me in that same area, I I was under the impression that um man, once you're married, you get to have sex like all the time, anytime, all day, every day, kind of thing. And that's what would happen, because that's what two people do, right? And so um, again, no one ever set me aside and said, Hey, yeah, you might be a little more prolific right after you're first married, but right that's gonna, that's gonna change over time. Yeah, and that's okay because you're gonna have better sex. So even though it may not be as frequent as it was uh honeymoon stage, newlyweds, right? It's a hundred times better, at least for us, I think. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 7:57

Well, and I'm I'm not very rigid in the sense of like one man, one wife. Like, yes, that. But in the realm of that wait, what when I said like so rigid, I didn't want people to think Oh, that you have no rules. I have we have no rules, no standards.

SPEAKER_04 8:15

Yeah, like you're talking about in the context of a marriage, yes, God gives freedom. Yes, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

Yeah. What what was it? Um, what's the quote from um oh my gosh, you say it sometimes. Uh don't pull a hamstring or what was what is that? Who is that from?

SPEAKER_04 8:39

Uh it's me. If I if yeah, if I'm I get to be the one to claim it, I guess. No, what what we have said in different conferences and stuff that we've taught is in that context, in that healthy, god-honoring marriage relationship, there are, I mean, you've got you've got freedom.

SPEAKER_03 8:59

Right.

SPEAKER_04 9:00

And so as long as you are good with it, and as long as your spouse is good with it, then man, knock yourself out. Like do do everything short of injuring yourself to to have fun and enjoy each other.

SPEAKER_00 9:16

It doesn't, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:17

The differen the differences comes in when maybe one of you is not cool with something or the other.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

Right.

SPEAKER_04 9:24

That's when you need to learn to tap the brakes. And we we've even uh referenced uh several times that a good way to think about it is red light, yellow light, green light. And so there are some things that are red lights, some things that you or your spouse may be like, nope, right? Not doing that. I don't care what you thought, I'm not doing that, I'm not comfortable with that.

SPEAKER_00 9:48

Right.

SPEAKER_04 9:48

Okay, respect that red light. Then there's some things that are yellow lights, and that might be, hey, I've never thought about doing that. I'm not saying I'm opposed to it. I'm very cautious, and you should approach cautiously, just like a yellow light. And then there's those green lights, which you've both had conversations about, and you're like, let's go, man.

SPEAKER_00 10:10

Well, the problem is I don't even think people have conversations about it.

SPEAKER_04 10:12

Yeah. Have a conversation with your spouse about intimacy, even down to what's, you know, what positions are good, or what what what you what's acceptable, what things um here's where it gets really dangerous in our culture because the the first exposure to pornography now is somewhere around like eight or nine years old. It's crazy. And it's not like you know, you're seeing pictures in magazines anymore. You're seeing it all, you're seeing all the things.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

Right.

SPEAKER_04 10:49

And so you got these young men and women growing up with these envisions of what sex is going to be like, and they get married, and it's frustrating because maybe their spouse is not comfortable doing they're not acting most of that stuff. Yeah, we've talked about this in other episodes, and that's gonna be very frustrating, and that's where the conversations need to be had.

SPEAKER_03 11:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:13

Because if I if uh if we rolled into marriage and I had all these ideas, and here's what Shelly's gonna do, this and that's gonna be great. And you roll in, you're like, mm-mm, not not doing that. I'm cool with that, but I'm not cool with that. And I'm not gonna know why, because we if we don't have a conversation, right? And then I'm gonna get frustrated. Oh, she just doesn't love me. She doesn't love me, she's not interested, she rejected me. Right, then it's a hot mess. And so have conversations. That was a good one.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

So we just just you know jumped off the deep end.

SPEAKER_04 11:51

Okay. Let me let me ask chat to give us another one. Question two. If a spouse came to you and said, I love my husband slash wife, but I don't really like them right now, what would you tell them?

SPEAKER_00 12:08

Welcome to a Tuesday. I mean Okay.

SPEAKER_04 12:16

I get I love them, but I don't like them.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

Like like all the time or just like in this moment?

SPEAKER_04 12:25

That would be a great first follow-up question.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:28

Like, how long have you not liked them?

SPEAKER_00 12:30

Right. Because that grows a lot of resentment.

SPEAKER_04 12:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

A lot of bitter roots.

SPEAKER_04 12:36

I think this is where people fall into the mistake of thinking that love is that those feelings of love, those first passionate, I'm not even talking intimacy. The thing that draws you two together in a loving way, they think is always gonna be there.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:56

And you never have to work at it.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

And if I don't feel that, then I must not.

SPEAKER_04 13:00

Yeah. So like when we started dating, going out, whatever it was called back in the day, uh, we talked a lot on the phone because that's that's all there was to do. Right. There was no texting or not. Not even really email. I mean, there was, but we didn't use it. Um, and so we just talked a lot on the phone. We would talk for hours sometimes on the phone. And then couples just think, oh yeah, it's always going to be that easy to talk to one another and have those conversations, and then it's not, as it always is not. And they stop doing the things that build that connection. And so um the way we've described it in the past is think of it like a freight train.

SPEAKER_03 13:48

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:49

So you've got the engine, right? Or the these days there's like multiple engines up front, and those are pulling along this really long train. And that love, that that instant connection, that new exciting love that you have in the relationship at the beginning is absolutely strong enough to pull the whole relationship along with it.

SPEAKER_03 14:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:14

Fast forward, kids, hormones, mortgages, jobs, stress, family drama, all the things. Eventually, it's not strong enough to pull along that whole train. You need something almost in the the back, pushing as well as things pulling. And so people just stop working, they stop doing the work, they stop inviting each other in.

SPEAKER_03 14:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:45

And uh, so if somebody says, Hey, I love my husband, what would you tell them? I love my husband right now, but I just don't like him.

SPEAKER_00 14:52

I think the first thing would be like, Are you like today? Like recently, like how long? Um Yeah, I just think that can be a really dangerous, slippery slope if you're not willing to go to him and have some hard conversations.

SPEAKER_04 15:16

And I'm gonna I'm gonna jump on Chat GPT here. I'm gonna jump over and ask my own question.

SPEAKER_00 15:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 15:24

What would you say the difference is in a couple going through a difficult season versus their marriage deteriorating?

SPEAKER_00 15:34

Right. I mean, I think every marriage goes through difficult seasons.

SPEAKER_04 15:40

Because that person who's saying I don't like my husband right now, they m I mean sounds like they might be in a difficult season.

SPEAKER_00 15:47

Yeah. And I would say keep leaning in. Yeah. Keep inviting each other in, keep working at it, don't just be like, well, this is it. I just don't like them anymore.

SPEAKER_04 15:59

So Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

Like I think we've gone through seasons where it's more difficult. But we kept pursuing and kept walking through it.

SPEAKER_04 16:13

Yeah. And it does it does make it more difficult when both of you are in a difficult season. It makes it difficult for that marriage. Typically, one or the other might be in one, and that's when you can come alongside and and help. But yeah, when you're both in one of those difficult seasons.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

I just think if you don't ever go to your spouse and be like, hey, I love you, but I'm having a really hard time. And it and then opening up about that, yeah. Whatever expectation didn't get met, whatever, whatever happened. He's not pursuing you anymore. Like, there's a ways to have that conversation without making it explode.

SPEAKER_04 16:59

Yeah, I I'm thinking back. I don't know that you've ever said those words to me. You've never said, hey, I love you, but I don't like you right now. But you have said some similar things in that, hey, I'm not pleased with maybe how you've been acting over the last month or or or something.

SPEAKER_00 17:23

And I you've been very distracted, and that's like whatever.

SPEAKER_04 17:26

Yeah. And I honestly, I think if you were to have a conversation, if you being the listener, if you were to have a conversation with your spouse and say something to that effect, you might hear back from them, you know what? I don't really like me right now either.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:44

So thank you.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

And then work on that.

SPEAKER_04 17:46

Yeah. Thank you for thank you for uh talking about something that I I've felt, yeah, but now I know that it's obvious to to you as well.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

Most of the time, I think, when people are like going through a difficult time, they just ignore it and think it'll go away. And then you're 15 years down the road and you really don't like them, and you've actually never dealt with any of the stuff, and that's a lot to unpack.

SPEAKER_04 18:17

Everybody loves the summer heat, right? But you gotta go through those winters.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:25

Yeah, you gotta cuddle up, use that body heat to get you through those cold winters.

SPEAKER_00 18:30

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 18:31

Um, okay, next question. What's something the church gets right about marriage? And what's something the church often gets wrong?

SPEAKER_00 18:43

Oh lordy.

SPEAKER_04 18:44

ChatGPT wanting us to throw the church under the bus here. Um first starts with what what's something that the church gets right about marriage?

SPEAKER_00 18:55

I think they try really hard to offer a marriage class. Like some churches, like they they do try to invest into into marriages. Yeah, I just often think they get that content wrong. It's more about submissive than anything else.

SPEAKER_04 19:16

You went straight to what they're getting wrong.

SPEAKER_00 19:18

Yeah, sorry.

SPEAKER_04 19:20

Uh no, we'll come back to that. Um, I would agree that chur I think churches do value the importance of marriage.

SPEAKER_03 19:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:28

They know it's valuable, therefore they tr they try to do things that show the value to it.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

Right.

SPEAKER_04 19:35

They understand, and most most churches, I can't speak for every single church, but most churches understand it's a it's a God ordained relationship.

SPEAKER_03 19:45

Right.

SPEAKER_04 19:46

He invented it.

SPEAKER_03 19:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:47

He created he came up with the idea for it. And so because of that, they they have some vetted interest on on their peop people's marriages being as healthy as they can. Now, you said what they get wrong is what did you say?

SPEAKER_00 20:08

Well, from my experience, early on in our marriage, every class, conference, other weddings that we would attend, they only would teach out of the Bible. And there's there's some verses on marriage, obviously, but they would only take that content of just the submission part, being submissive to the wife.

SPEAKER_04 20:38

To the wife.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

And that's all we learned. Like we just needed to be submissive. That was it.

unknown 20:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

We never talked about expectations, we never talked about mutual submission, we never talked about how to love your spouse well, and I just only remember those verses.

SPEAKER_03 20:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:56

I mean, maybe they did, and I just don't remember, but I just feel like it was very much one-sided. Very one-sided.

SPEAKER_04 21:04

No, you're right. We we uh we went to a wedding. This was only a few years ago.

SPEAKER_03 21:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:12

And the officiant only spoke to and only looked at the husband.

SPEAKER_00 21:19

Correct.

SPEAKER_04 21:20

Never even acknowledged. Never even acknowledged the bride.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Yes. It was very awkward.

SPEAKER_04 21:26

Which you could say, oh, that's because he was calling him up to be the godly man he needed to be. I don't think that was it at all.

SPEAKER_03 21:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:34

It was um, well, the only thing he did I take that back. He did look at the bride one time, and that was when he was talking about being submissive to him, the husband. Yeah, okay. Can we all just agree that wives should submit to their husbands? Amen. Praise God. And and there's More. There's more. Um husbands are to literally die.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 22:08

Every day. Wake up and die. For their wives. On the daily, laying his life down, putting his own needs, his own self aside, racing to the bottom of the humility chain for his wife every single day. I'll show you a woman who has absolutely no problem submitting to her husband.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

Correct.

SPEAKER_04 22:40

Yeah. But show me a guy who's just living for himself.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

He's just beating her over the head with the Bible?

SPEAKER_04 22:48

Yeah. Bible says it. Black and white.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

Better do it.

SPEAKER_04 22:51

Better do it. This is my life, and you're just a part of it.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

Right. You're here to help me.

SPEAKER_04 22:57

Yeah. Now no one would ever say that. No one ever said that's what I'm doing. But that's what they're doing. That is what they're doing. And so, yeah, it's really hard to submit to that.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

Yeah. I just wish we would have learned skills and the things that we teach. And even the things I remember the first time we went to a marriage conference in Nebraska, and it was so different. Well, it was with Ty and Terry Shinzel. And my mind was blown away at how they were speaking.

SPEAKER_04 23:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:30

It was so just well.

SPEAKER_04 23:32

Oh my gosh. Yeah, that had more to do with Ty and Terry than it did in Nebraska.

SPEAKER_00 23:36

But yeah, totally, totally.

SPEAKER_04 23:37

But it definitely was not the standard southern facade of a healthy marriage that you see a lot of times.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

That's the other thing. Is every other conference we went to early on in our marriage, it was I never saw the wife. It was just the man.

SPEAKER_04 23:57

You mean teaching?

SPEAKER_00 23:58

Teaching.

SPEAKER_04 23:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

And with Ty and Terry, it was the first time I saw a woman teaching together with her husband.

SPEAKER_03 24:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

And it was way more impactful. And we actually learned stuff.

SPEAKER_03 24:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

And I felt I there in that thing in that conference was the first time I actually felt freedom in my own marriage. Like I can do that. It was like giving me permission.

SPEAKER_03 24:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

It's like, what? That's crazy. I've never heard this before.

SPEAKER_04 24:31

Now we want to be clear and say there are really awesome people and conferences and people teaching great stuff in the South. It's not like everyone's clueless down there. But there is a there is a mindset that I think is more than being unbiblical, it's just hindering great marriages.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:57

And we we have spent the majority of our adult, well, the majority of our lives have spent in the South. We grew up there. And ask when you ask people about their marriages, it's a it's a it's sort of like asking people about their prayer life. And it's really telling because there's not a lot of people who are proud of their marriage.

SPEAKER_00 25:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:22

Anywhere. I'm not just talking about South.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_04 25:25

Anywhere.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

Anywhere.

SPEAKER_04 25:26

It's like, oh yeah, yeah. It's like asking about their prayer life. I could be better. I could be praying more, you know, like I'm sure I could be doing more. And you ask them about their marriage, and it's like, I know, I know, we got, you know, we got some things. And oh, you know, it versus the couple you talk to who they're very proud of their marriage. Not because it's perfect, because it's not.

SPEAKER_00 25:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:50

And they know it.

unknown 25:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:52

I feel like we could talk about that for a while. Come on, GPT, what do you got for us? Um, how do you know the difference between a marriage how do you know the difference between a marriage problem and an individual maturity problem? How do you know the difference? Um I don't know that a lot of times there is a difference. I think a lot of the marriage problems are because individual immaturity problems.

SPEAKER_00 26:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:27

Which shows up in the marriage.

SPEAKER_00 26:29

And if you notice that, like if you're the wife and you're going to your spouse and they're not receiving anything, and you realize it's a maturity issue, then you need to keep growing and learning and praying a lot for your husband. Because you can't change him. You can only work on yourself.

SPEAKER_04 26:53

Say that again, because one, I don't think a lot of people understand that. And if they do, I don't know that they agree with it. So say that again.

SPEAKER_00 27:03

So anytime I've ever come to you with something and maybe wasn't received well, or I thought he he's not understanding, maybe I don't want to say immature, but just something's off.

SPEAKER_03 27:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

Um or it could be immaturity. Working on my own self and staying in my own circle and praying earnestly for you is the only thing I can do. Like if I just continually go to you just to prove a point, or I'm just to show you that I'm right, or you should change because I am right, that doesn't do anything. It makes it worse. You have to want to change and to grow. And yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:52

We've said before one way to look at it is that you are the biggest problem in your marriage. Yeah. Now, I know some people could hear that and be like, whoa, hang on, Robert. I'm not the one that had adult that committed adultery. I'm not the one that drinks herself from being a part of her their family. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, sure. There are there are those obvious things. We're not talking about that. We're talking about what Shelly said, you you cannot fix your spouse. And so many couples come into therapy or they go see their pastor, and they already know exactly what the issue is. My husband doesn't do this, or my husband does this, or my wife doesn't do this, or does you know what I mean? Like they know, they know the problem. And very rarely have they slowed down enough to say, and what's my problem? Like, what am I bringing?

SPEAKER_00 28:54

Well, and some of those big things like adultery or alcohol, yeah, the big things, they can be so loud that you don't even look inward.

SPEAKER_03 29:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

Because that's such a big thing that you're, I don't have to look inward. Well, well, you really do.

SPEAKER_04 29:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:12

Like you have to deal with your own junk.

SPEAKER_04 29:16

I've sometimes asked people, what's your number two sin? Because what I found personally, like what I found in my life, is I would be so convinced that I struggled with this one thing. And it was like, man, if I could just get a handle on this one thing, then then I would be Jesus Jr. You know what I mean? Like it, that's the thing. But I never ever thought about what came after that. So if it was lust, for example, I was like, that's my thing. That that's my struggle.

SPEAKER_03 29:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:53

And yet I never thought about what pride was doing to me, what arrogance was doing to me.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

Right.

SPEAKER_04 30:01

What what you know always thinking I'm right is doing to me. And so when you stop and you ask someone, and and we would just ask you right now, what's your number two sin? Yeah, we know you know your number one. That's the one you're probably fighting the most.

SPEAKER_00 30:15

It's your blind spot.

SPEAKER_04 30:16

What's your blind spot?

unknown 30:17

Right.

SPEAKER_04 30:18

What's the what what are the things in your life that you're doing that are making everything more difficult, and you're not even focused on it because you're either thinking of your number one sin or you're definitely thinking of your spouse's.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

Right.

SPEAKER_04 30:33

Yeah. I know what their number one sin.

SPEAKER_00 30:35

Yeah. I just feel like yeah, in a lot of places they just want to point fingers and it's like you you gotta deal with your own stuff.

SPEAKER_04 30:45

Stay in your own circle.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

Stay in your own lane, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:48

Yeah. Question next. What's a question couples are often afraid to ask about sex but desperately want answered?

SPEAKER_00 31:00

How often?

SPEAKER_04 31:02

I think I yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

Because the man just wants to know.

SPEAKER_04 31:09

Yeah, everybody's asking that question.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

I mean, I guess women too.

SPEAKER_04 31:12

Not just not just people in the church.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:15

Like, we've we follow a lot of people, obviously, on social media having to do with marriage and and things like that. And man, I'm always seeing reels uh about people doing podcasts or whatnot. And that's that's the question they're asking is hey, what's what how many times should we be having sex a week, basically? And what people want to know is how are we doing? Right. Are we are we doing okay? Are we beating the system?

SPEAKER_00 31:43

Right.

SPEAKER_04 31:43

Are we better than everybody else? Or are we slacking? They that's that that's what they want to know, which is such an odd question to just want to compare yourselves with everybody else. That's sort of like asking how far is too far, anyway.

SPEAKER_00 31:59

That's true.

SPEAKER_04 31:59

Like, really?

SPEAKER_00 32:00

Is that is that what you're about intimacy than sex?

SPEAKER_04 32:04

So you're saying that couples uh are are afraid to ask about frequency. Yes, but they really want to know that.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

Yes, I think they want to know that.

SPEAKER_04 32:18

But what would they what would they do if they got an answer? Like, what if someone actually said you should be having sex three to four times a week? Like what would they do with that information?

SPEAKER_00 32:29

The man would pressure the wife.

SPEAKER_04 32:31

Yeah, Robert and Shelley said three to four times a week.

SPEAKER_00 32:36

Uh yeah. I don't know. Maybe that maybe that's not a question. I don't know. What do you think?

SPEAKER_04 32:40

Well, I think to me, to me, it it's not the question. It's what are you gonna do with the information from the question that you think you really want? Because if we were to say um one to two times every two weeks, right, is an average, what would you do with that information? Would you stop having sex? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 33:05

Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 33:06

Like what are you gonna what's the motive behind the question? Are you trying to get more sex or are you trying to get less sex and give yourself an out from having to pursue your your spouse?

SPEAKER_00 33:18

Yeah. Do you is there a question that you think couples want to are asking?

SPEAKER_04 33:24

Oh um trying to think about all the questions we've gotten. Um I think a lot of them, and we've talked about this in detail, so we don't need to go into detail about it, but a lot of them have been about desire.

SPEAKER_00 33:39

Yeah. And responsive.

SPEAKER_04 33:42

Yeah, like what do I do if my husband wants sex more than I do, or my wife that you know? It has a lot a lot of the questions we've gotten have to do with what they perceive as uh opposing um drives.

SPEAKER_03 33:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:59

I've got a high drive for sex, she's got a low drive, or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 34:03

Right.

SPEAKER_04 34:04

And I think I think a lot of them want to know that answer. And I think that's kind of why when we respond the way we respond, it equally frees people up and frustrates some people.

SPEAKER_00 34:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 34:22

Because when we say, hey, it's you're actually not you're not talking about number here. Yeah, you're not talking about levels here, you're talking about types.

SPEAKER_01 34:32

Right.

SPEAKER_04 34:33

Like what we have found is it's sort of a mixed bag. Some people would be like, oh my gosh, we've never heard that. That makes so much sense. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 34:42

It takes the pressure.

SPEAKER_04 34:43

It it it it helps us put language to what we've been experiencing. And other couples are like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But seriously, how many times a week should we be having like it's like they just they just don't want to they don't want to know. Because it's work, it takes a lot of work.

SPEAKER_00 35:01

It takes a lot of work, yeah. I was trying to think of another question, but I can't.

SPEAKER_04 35:06

ChatGPT is asking a lot about sex, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 35:09

Is it listening to us? Because we've as we're talking, right? I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 35:15

I don't know. That just freaked me out a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

I just I don't know, because we started off.

SPEAKER_04 35:21

Well, we have talked a lot about sex in our podcast, so I'm sure maybe that's what it is. Uh uh, here's another one. If how long have we been doing this, by the way? I don't know. If you could sit down with every engaged couple for 15 minutes and warn them about one thing, what would it be?

SPEAKER_00 35:40

One. One? Yeah. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 35:43

Uh I I got mine.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

Okay. What is yours first?

SPEAKER_04 35:47

Expectations.

SPEAKER_00 35:48

I was gonna say tone. Tone and X probably expectations.

SPEAKER_04 35:53

So when I say speak to each other, when I say expectations, I mean uh what we have found not only in our own marriage, but in observing many, many, many marriages over our time, expectations is probably when I say uh, let me say it differently, unmet expectations.

SPEAKER_00 36:18

Yeah, unmet.

SPEAKER_04 36:19

Are probably one of the biggest marriage killers, even more so than some of those big ones we mentioned.

SPEAKER_00 36:25

And again, they don't talk about it.

SPEAKER_04 36:27

More more than adultery, more than substance abuse, more than sexual addiction, unmet expectations. And here's why, here's what we mean. When you have expectations of how your marriage should be and look and feel and do all the things, and then it's not, and you haven't talked about it, that builds resentment.

SPEAKER_00 36:46

And so does this in every single relationship. It does not just marriage, even your marriage, even your relationship with God.

SPEAKER_04 36:55

You yeah, that part. Yeah, yeah. God, here's what I think you should do for my life. Yeah. Because it's what I would do, it's what I would do if I were God and I was over my life. And then as life tends to do, it doesn't work out right the way that you thought it would. And now it's not well, now whoever was in charge, whether it be God or your marriage, now you're frustrated. Yeah, and that frustration will lead to resentment, and that resentment will lead to contempt, and then you're this is that's not good. You're screwed, you're screwed, yeah. Listen, without a work of God, there there's almost no coming back from that.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:44

Once contentment hits, and you're just they can do nothing right, and it all it all stemmed back. If you think about it, if you track it all the way back, it all it tracks all the way back to here's what I thought should happen. That didn't happen.

SPEAKER_00 38:01

Right.

SPEAKER_04 38:02

I know why it didn't happen. You see that? Like you're they're filling that that void from what they thought should happen versus what actually happened. They're filling it with motive.

SPEAKER_03 38:12

Right.

SPEAKER_04 38:13

So now I'm looking at you being like, Well, I know why you didn't want to spend time with me tonight, because that's that's what I thought I've been thinking about that all day. I knew that's what would happen.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

I just think people don't talk about it. They don't talk about it, they just sweep it under the rug.

SPEAKER_04 38:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:30

And then all of a sudden they're blowing up at each other, and they have, you know, they have no idea why, but it was a because of an expectation from two years ago. You know, you just yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:45

So you got to talk about those expectations.

SPEAKER_00 38:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:48

Whether you're talking about sex, or whether you're talking about how you're gonna parent your kids, or whether you're talking about your occupation and where you're gonna live, whether you're talking about your family, whether you're talking about your relationship with God. Talk about the expectations.

SPEAKER_00 39:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:06

God, uh, God, I gave my life to you, and my life has been nothing but hardship and and trial and suffering. And I thought, because I gave my life to you, I surrendered my life to you at a young age, I thought you were gonna take care of me.

SPEAKER_03 39:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:24

And God's like, Where's that? Like, I am gonna take care of you. Don't worry about that. Like, I your eternity is secure. But back to the part where you thought I was gonna give you the really good jobs and all the money and all the notoriety. Turn turn to that verse exactly. Show me, show me where I said that. Yeah, that's hard.

SPEAKER_00 39:46

It's hard. And I think sometimes you just you need to have those hard conversations.

SPEAKER_04 39:53

How do you have a hard conversation with God? I I don't think sorry. I didn't mean for that to be a trick question. I didn't think it was a trick question.

SPEAKER_00 40:06

No, I mean I just I think having like God can handle your emotions. Yeah, he can handle your questions. It's okay to be mad. It's okay. I've had lots of times where I've been confused and angry and upset and yelled at God.

SPEAKER_04 40:28

And he didn't run away.

SPEAKER_00 40:31

He didn't run away. Yeah. It was more of a comfort and peace once the conversation had been had.

SPEAKER_04 40:39

Yeah. He can handle it.

SPEAKER_00 40:42

He can handle it.

SPEAKER_04 40:43

I think you have that conversation with God the same way you would have with anybody else.

SPEAKER_00 40:47

Yeah. Maybe not the yelling and the screaming, but yeah. I mean, maybe, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 40:53

I mean, I've yelled and screamed at God.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:58

Hand, you know, fit fist in the air, angry at God.

SPEAKER_00 41:02

You haven't done that to me though. You have yelled and we've yelled a lot, but early on. Yeah, I see what you're saying. Early on, we yelled a lot.

SPEAKER_04 41:10

Yeah, well, maybe maybe we can even be more honest with I don't know what I'm saying. That's a that's a good point, though.

SPEAKER_00 41:19

This this podcast may just create a whole lot of other questions. People are all kinds of screwed up at this point.

SPEAKER_04 41:28

So, so we listened to Robert and Shelly, and now we got all kinds of questions. We're so confused. They're supposed to help. Uh, here's another one. What's something you've what's something you've changed your mind about in parenting over the last 20 years?

SPEAKER_03 41:48

A lot.

SPEAKER_04 41:49

Let's say 24 years, because that's how long we've been parents, right?

SPEAKER_00 41:56

Yeah. Um, early on, I cared way more about their behavior and outward appearances than their hearts.

SPEAKER_04 42:13

Give us some examples or an example.

SPEAKER_00 42:17

We've had to apologize a lot to Ashlyn. Um, and just the I mean, my kids tell me stories, and I don't even remember some of these, and I just have to apologize. Anytime my kids come to me, they're like, hey mom, you said this, and I don't even remember it. I'm just like, I'm so sorry. Uh like one time Ashley and Claire said I wouldn't let them paint their fingernails red because it gave this the signal, whatever, that you were a whore or something. I was like, oh my god. What?

SPEAKER_04 42:54

By the way, for those who are listening and not watching us, Shelly has red fingernail polish on it.

SPEAKER_00 43:03

I was like, what? They're like, yeah, you told us you couldn't wear red.

SPEAKER_04 43:08

See, that's so interesting because that does not sound like something you would have said. But probably it's not too far-fetched from like I just thought they had to completely cover their bodies up.

SPEAKER_00 43:27

They had to just be very, very conservative. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:33

And now I'm like modest is hottest.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

Right. And it like I don't want them walking around with you know there's a limit. Um, but anyway, I just kind of switched and just God just worked on my heart slowly to change from Yeah, I can fix the outside in my own timing. Um, what you need to worry about is their heart. And getting through to that.

SPEAKER_04 44:02

And so not modifying their behavior.

SPEAKER_00 44:07

Correct. Not behavior modification.

SPEAKER_04 44:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:10

Um and so I kind of started doing that. And even now the girls will come back to me and be like, why did you let us dress like that? Like for a season, they would dress crazy or whatever. And I'm like, because I didn't care. I knew it would change.

SPEAKER_03 44:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:24

I knew at some point we weren't always gonna sorry, Claire, dress like a waiter. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_04 44:31

Like, uh oh.

SPEAKER_00 44:34

She always she makes fun of that.

SPEAKER_04 44:35

Um like black plants, black shirt, buttoned all the way to the top.

SPEAKER_00 44:43

Like it because I cared more about your heart than I did on the outside.

SPEAKER_04 44:50

Yeah. That's a good one. Do I have to answer?

SPEAKER_00 44:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 44:58

Um, I think early on in parenting, I thought that to have authority, I needed to present myself as authoritative.

SPEAKER_00 45:10

Like loud? Loud.

SPEAKER_04 45:11

Oh, yeah, big, powerful.

SPEAKER_00 45:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:15

And I mean, that that was the advantage. That was the advantage of being uh a large guy, yeah, is that I was always bigger and I could always be louder.

SPEAKER_00 45:27

And by the way, I'm 5'1 and Robert 6'1.

SPEAKER_04 45:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:31

That just tells you thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:33

So yeah, not this was not only in parenting, this was also with you.

SPEAKER_00 45:37

Right.

SPEAKER_04 45:37

Um, I thought if I were gonna, if I if I'm gonna have authority, yeah, then I've gotta I've gotta win with authority. I gotta be authoritative. And I have learned that that is uh a lie.

SPEAKER_03 45:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:54

That true authority doesn't need volume. True authority doesn't need posture. Like true authority is authority. I mean, just think of look at God.

SPEAKER_00 46:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:09

I mean, what you know, the scripture where where God passes uh before Moses, I believe, and and you know, there was a big hurricane and God wasn't in the hurricane, and then there's a big, you know, earthquake and God wasn't in the earthquake. And then the small, still breeze comes by and God was in that.

SPEAKER_03 46:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:32

As if to say, I don't need to be a hurricane. I don't need to be uh uh an earthquake, I am God, I have authority, and I am in the still small voice.

SPEAKER_00 46:43

I think I actually scared our kids more when I whispered versus yelling at them.

SPEAKER_04 46:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:50

Like that for some reason, I was just like, oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 46:53

Yeah, and I don't think we were ever huge yellers.

SPEAKER_00 46:58

No.

SPEAKER_04 46:59

But yeah, we've learned a lot.

SPEAKER_00 47:03

I wouldn't I think I used to say I have a whole lot of patience until it runs out. Like they were just times, yeah. That poor kids. It was a lot.

SPEAKER_04 47:15

It it it did get overwhelming. But what would overwhelm you? Because I know what would overwhel uh I know what overwhelmed me. What overwhelmed you?

SPEAKER_00 47:30

The chaos. Like just everyone loud screaming, yeah. Everything's a mess. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:41

Yeah, for me it was more the the volume. Right. I don't do well with loud. Loudness. Brightness. All those sorts of things. Yeah, I don't we'll see. We'll see which one uh is a good last one here. What do you think is what do you think is the biggest threat to marriages today that nobody is talking about? Hang on. Okay. He he? He is Chat GPT a he? I have no idea. I never thought about that till just now. We'll say it. Oh. Because I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 48:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 48:25

It gives us follow-up prompts to this one.

SPEAKER_00 48:28

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 48:29

Says, is it technology? Is it exhaustion? Is it busyness? Is it individualism or something else?

SPEAKER_00 48:40

Can't there be all of the above?

SPEAKER_04 48:42

So, what's the biggest threat to marriages today that nobody is talking about?

SPEAKER_00 48:46

Kid schedules. Select baseball.

SPEAKER_04 48:50

This ought to be a good one to end on. Maybe we should have ended uh before that. Um I think it's not just baseball.

SPEAKER_00 48:57

No, it's it's the bit and it's not just sports, it's keep them busy, keep them distracted.

SPEAKER_03 49:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:04

They don't have to work on their relationship with God, they don't have to get quiet and still, they don't have to have hard conversations. If you just keep them going, yeah. Keep them busy.

SPEAKER_04 49:13

Here's a question that I would have for any listeners who are not in the Midwest. And so if you are listening to this and you're not in the Midwest, please let us know your response to this. My question is, is this an everywhere thing?

SPEAKER_00 49:31

I think it has become.

SPEAKER_04 49:32

Or is this a Midwest thing? And I have a theory. If it's only a Midwest thing, my theory is because there's not really it not anything else to do, that we don't have mountains that you can go ski on or climb or hike. We don't have a whole lot of lakes, at least in the part that we are in, that you could go boating, skiing, hanging out at the lake beach, things like that. There's just not a lot of other things to do. And so it's really easy to get preoccupied with activities.

SPEAKER_00 50:05

Right.

SPEAKER_04 50:06

My question is, is that at all is that like is it that is that everywhere? Like I think it is, but like where they do have mountains and lakes and all that, do are family activities equally just out of control, in in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 50:25

Someone was telling me the other day that their friend, one of their coworkers, was com complaining because one, if she's three boys who play baseball, one of the boys had 18 games in three days. How's that even possible? Or maybe in four days. It was like a weekend tournament, but 18 of them.

SPEAKER_04 50:45

18 games?

SPEAKER_00 50:46

18 games. I don't know how that works out.

SPEAKER_04 50:50

My first question would be how many teams are there?

SPEAKER_00 50:52

I have no idea. I don't know how that works out.

SPEAKER_04 50:54

If it takes 18 games to figure out who the best is, you're doing something wrong. Yeah, I don't there better be like 172 teams.

SPEAKER_00 51:01

I don't know what it is, but it's a lot.

SPEAKER_04 51:05

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 51:07

Yeah. And so that yeah. It's very annoying when people are like, we're so busy we can't stop. And I'm just like, you know you have full control over your schedule. You have the right to say no. You can say no. You can tell your kids no.

SPEAKER_04 51:28

That's a hot take.

SPEAKER_00 51:31

Yeah. I just think that's a lie from the enemy that we have to stay busy, that our kids have to be in all these sports and these activities and clubs and um we have to set them up for success. Well, the best way you can set them up for success is Jesus.

SPEAKER_04 51:49

Yeah, and have a great marriage yourself.

SPEAKER_00 51:52

Right. Give your love your spouse well. And Jesus. I mean that's you can you can only you can't take anything with you to heaven except your kids and your spouse.

SPEAKER_04 52:09

Yeah, that could probably be its own episode. Um I'm not sure how to end this. Because we didn't know where it was gonna go.

SPEAKER_00 52:24

Sorry if we offended you, but not. I'm scared.

SPEAKER_04 52:31

Well, guys, uh hopefully you found something in here that was uh a nugget of truth, a nugget of wisdom, something that helped. Maybe we just uh opened up a can of of more questions and worms and and uncertainty.

SPEAKER_00 52:47

Hey, but that's okay. Just send us your questions.

SPEAKER_04 52:49

Send us your questions.

SPEAKER_00 52:50

We'll do a follow-up if we have to.

SPEAKER_04 52:52

Yeah. We'll we'll enter in all your questions in chat GPT and we'll say uh no, listen, we uh we we typically don't use AI for content. Yeah, and I just I was thinking the other day, we have other things that we want to talk about, by the way. But we've been in a very busy season ourselves. Uh one of our daughters got married. We've just been kind of busy with church stuff, and I thought, what would it look like if because I thought about bringing someone in to ask us questions.

SPEAKER_03 53:26

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 53:27

And I thought, well, I know someone who is immediately available whenever we ask them to we'll have them ask us questions. We would prefer it be a real person. Uh so if you have questions, please send those in. Yeah, we really do appreciate those and getting the opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 53:46

And you can push back. You don't have to agree with us.

SPEAKER_04 53:50

A lot of people, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:52

Yeah, like send it something like, hey, you said this, but I really think this, and oh yeah, we'll try to respond.

SPEAKER_04 54:00

Yeah, like like, you know, you could you could, you know, make fun of Shelly for saying how um women don't have to be submissive to their husbands. You didn't say that. Anyway, so uh thanks for listening, guys. And until next time, we will see you later on the marriage by the test.