Phantasma by Kaylie Smith: Deadly Trials and Wicked Games in New Orleans

In this episode of Worlds Within, we explore the Phantasma by Kaylie Smith, the first in the Wicked Games series. This story has immersive worldbuilding, interesting familial magic, deadly trials, and a dangerously charming ghost. Perfect for fans of gothic dark fantasy, romantasy, and stories that pull you into the shadows.

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Hosted by Alyssa Curtis & Ash Christine. Theme song by Magiksolo. Recording studio provided by Garden Groove 

Until next time, keep wandering - we'll see you in the next world!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to Worlds Within, where story becomes space. We're your hosts, Alyssa and Ash, and every episode we explore fictional worlds that don't just live on the page, they pull you in, build themselves around you, and let you wander through them. This is a podcast for readers who don't just love books, they live in them. We dive deep into sensory storytelling, character perspectives, and the world-building mechanics that turn fiction into a fully immersive experience.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

All right, y'all. Welcome back for what is now officially the third season of Worlds Within. Woo! Uh for our third season, we've collected six books. That's right, six, not five.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

One more.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

Uh, and our theme this this time is behind closed doors. So stories that are set in fantastical houses and gothic manners, full of disappearing rooms, shifting hallways, secrets that live behind locked doors, and wicked, but sometimes bewitching owners. So close the curtains and light the lamp. You'll need the light for where we're heading, because first up, it's Phantasma by Kaylee Smith.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Keeping with our episode structure, we begin with a plot teaser. And our tea today is a vanilla try. Ophelia, who's our main female character here, describes her grandmother drinking up to seven cups of tea a day. So much so that she smelled like vanilla and chai, mixed with the smell of spell salts and magic.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

What a great habit. I know, what a great combination of smells.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

And you know, when I um when I was reading that, I reminded myself how much of this particular vanilla chai I used to drink when we lived in Florida.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

Oh, yeah. It was all the time. And your kitchen would smell like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

I know. So really happy to have this back in my life. So let's get into the synopsis. There were only two rules to the game: stay alive and don't fall in love. When Ophelia Grimm's sister disappears, there is only one way to save her. Ophelia must enter Phantasma, a deadly contest inside a haunted mansion, and claim its prize, a single wish. Phantasma is a maze of twisting corridors and lavish ballrooms, of demons and temptations. Ophelia will face nine challenges, each more dangerous than the last. There can only be one winner, and the other contestants will stop at nothing to eliminate their rivals. Every day the house creates new monsters. But just as Ophelia's fears threaten to overwhelm her, a mysterious stranger offers her a bargain. Charming, arrogant, and infuriatingly attractive, Blackwell claims he can guide her through the lethal trials ahead. All he asks in return is 10 years of her life. Sure. Ophelia knows she shouldn't trust him. Blackwell doesn't seem dangerous, but appearance appearances can be deceptive. Worse still, she feels a dark and irresistible attraction drawing them closer and closer. Her life is on the line. But in Phantasma, the only thing deadlier than losing the game is losing your heart.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

Of course he's irresistibly attracti attractive.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

Right.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

And infuriatingly attractive. I mean, let's be honest.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

He's bewitching.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

So I don't know how this wasn't on my TVR. Same. To be to be quite honest. I know. I just this like somehow this has everything that I want.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

I keep pausing to take a sip of tea, but then I want to exclaim everything that Ash is saying right now because the minute I saw this book, I was like, oh, she surely already read this. Wrong.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

I don't I don't know how. It has everything I could have wanted. New Orleans, check. Witchcraft, check. Necromancy, check, ghosts, check, spice, check. Like a haunted mansion, check. I know. Trials, check. I know. Like where we talked last season about Quicksilver, it this book has everything and it was not a good way. This book had everything in the best way. I know.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

And how did I how did how was it not on my list? I have no idea. Me neither, but it has been on my TVR forever because for exactly the same points. Gothic haunted mansion in New Orleans, say less. I would like to be there. In fact, I've probably toured it. The books with the most sewing. Can't can't deny it. Um, I think I saw a reel that said this was like a fantasy escape game. And I'm honestly shocked I waited this long to read it because I love escape games. Yeah. Okay. So first impressions. I think people can tell we loved. It's a rave, y'all. Yeah. I thoroughly enjoyed right away. The prologue pulled me in, right? The quote, the devil had a wicked mouth and a voice as smooth as bourbon. Okay. I'm sad. I mean, I also nice. But it starts with something like dramatic and super important, and it really set the tone, right? You have this. We wake up and find our mom dead, and what do we do now? Um, I feel immense empathy through Ophelia in all aspects, including the depictions of her OCD. And the trials are actually trials, like they're not fluffy. There's real stakes. It's life or death. And it felt trialing. Oh, so good. And the house was spooky and full of nightmares. There's a delightful twist, and it's a standalone. So I don't have to commit to 400 books. They are interconnected standalones, but of course I'm going to read the next one plus two is coming out soon.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

Well, that's what I was about to say. I was like, it is a standalone. And I like I don't, I don't feel compelled to read on to like Chantra. I mean, I don't feel compelled to read on because like it, I feel like I got a complete story. Yes. And so I feel like I feel resolved. I don't feel like I have to read it right now because I need to know what keeps like what keeps going. But I can continue, I do want to continue being in that world. And I love that. That like I have the choice and I can still stay in the world without having to stay in the world to follow like this. And also knowing that I could have read Enchantra on its own and then come back to this. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 6:19

So I'm a big fan of interconnected standalones as an approach to pretty much all books, but um really love, love, love, love. Okay, let's talk about the world. Because it's a great world, it's so good. So, first up is it's in New Orleans, which arguably I think is my favorite city currently in the United States. Could be second to Sedona, but we'll see. Um, it's a toss-up. But New Orleans is so full of history, especially of paranormal lore, mystical beings. It is truly the perfect setting for a book like this. But I will say I wasn't like super clear on what time period we were in. Um because we have a lot of mentions to carriages, but also cars. And so it's like, okay, and then jazz music, which is like eight late 1800s, early 1900s. So that's where I just put myself. But I could easily sidestep it because we're in New Orleans.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

Well, and I think I yes, there's a little bit of it that you can sidestep because it is New Orleans and all of those things exist still. I think based on the conversation that they have with the bankers about the car, yeah, and the discomfort that Ophelia and Genevieve have with the car, like it's a new thing. And so I I had the, I made the note. I was like, I haven't seen anything that specifically states the time period, but I get a sense of time from the world descriptions because like the the way that she is described as dressing and like those expectations. I she didn't have to tell me because I just I was there.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

You could picture it. So for sure. Things that I could picture is I could hear the jazz like floating up from the French Quarter throughout the book, um, or like picturing the the tree-lined streets of Magazine Street and like what these manors and houses look like because I've walked those streets, like I've done all I love it. Um, and even like the difference between tourists and locals, because I've always been a tourist in New Orleans. Um I just really, I really, really loved it. Um, it reminded me of a vampire walking tour that I did once in New Orleans, like coming to all these little haunts and like learning about the history of vampire lore in New Orleans. And then we had done a Pirates one when you and I went together, yeah, which was fun.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

Um we've both done several ghost ones.

unknown 8:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

So we are big New Orleans fans, and so I think that really helped my immersion into the world. Um, and I liked that Ophelia's kind of carried through these two rules that her mom had about New Orleans. The first being if the dark looks at you, don't look back and never make any deals with the devil. And that kind of like frames Ophelia's understanding of New Orleans and of the world and of her newly acquired magic.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

Yeah, I I was obsessed with all of it. So I mean, I can't because again, we've both done those walking tours. Like we've we've been, we have been so immersed in that. And and those are great rules too. Like I mean, those those should carry everywhere, but especially in a place like New Orleans where like the dark is more likely to look back, you know? Because if there, if there was only one place in the world where like you could even like the most non-believer could say, like, something something's weird here, that would New Orleans would be the place.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

For sure. So we focus on two houses in New Orleans, the first being Grim Manor. And this is Ophelia, Genevieve, and their mom, Tessie's family manor. It is large, doesn't sound like it's super well kept, there's dusty walls, and a porch is covered in roses. Uh, listeners, if you're not watching us on YouTube, I have a rose shirt on and a rose head band.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

Because you're a vision in rose.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

Thank you so much. Um, because it's it's a motif from the cover of the book. But then also, Souls of the Dead cannot cross over roses red. So Tessie being a necromancer and working with all of these people to contact their lost loved ones, or maybe not so loved, but communing with the spirits beyond um protects her house, like protects the manor with these roses red. So I wanted to also protect myself since we're talking about ghosts.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

It keeps devils, the keeps the unwanted spirits out and those conjured spirits in. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

But Grim Banner um is described by Ophelia in such a loving way, and she really cares for this house and has a sense of home there. She describes it as the only place that knew her. The banner's dust currently clung to the skirts of her dress, it's dirt, dirt beneath her fingernails, and the scent of wild roses woven in her hair. So she carries Grim Banner with her as much as she carries her mother's magic and her mother's family lines, kind of weight of this necromancy business that is going on.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

Yeah, it's definitely like while it is not sentient, it is a it is a strong presence. And it does, like, like you said, it kind of like wraps her in like in like love and in a hug, and like she that's where she feels comfortable because even obviously she's not comfortable being out at night because the devils are come out at night, but she doesn't want to leave during the day either. Like between her OCD and just her lack of ability to really like connect with people because she's been so sheltered, like she doesn't want to leave, she just wants to stay home.

SPEAKER_00 11:48

Yep. And that kind of drives the central tension of the book, too. We find out that Tessie, who is Ophelia and Genevieve's mom, has taken out a loan against Grim Manor and she fell behind on the payments. Um, and this house is in the process of foreclosure. And we find out that Genevieve knew, didn't tell Ophelia, um, but that is kind of the catalyst for the the fight between the two sisters. Um it drives them both into Phantasma, this fantastical game. Um But yeah, the the house becomes kind of a central point of contention between the two of them as well as what it represents to each of them. Um and represents something much larger, which is why was Ophelia kept out of the loop on what was happening with a house that she loves so much, and why was Genevieve privy to all of that? So the other house we have to talk about, and I want to focus this part just on Phantasma the House, and then we'll talk about Phantasma the game. Yes. Um, so Phantasma the House is often called the Devil's Manor. It is a calamitous gothic estate with 20-foot iron gates woven with metal vines, spiked with thorns, and embellished with onyx roses, multiple wings. It has multiple wings and different floors. It is impossibly large and impossibly spooky in my mind.

SPEAKER_01 13:11

Well, and it it moves, it travels from or transports from city to city. And when Ophelia discovers it, she realizes that it's replaced the church. The cathedral. Oops, which how ironic, like a devil's house sitting on arguably hallowed ground. Like that's not supposed to be uh allowable. Like, I don't know. Like, I mean, I just think that I I loved that. Yeah, but also like also that speaks to the size of this house because of the space that it's now residing in.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

Yeah. And um, it kind of the house itself has its own lore, right? It is a place often spoken about in whispered rumors and haunting cautionary tales in the dark because it moves and because it is home to these games and to these devils. Um, but it sounds beautiful in that very gothic New Orleans way of it's has stained glass entrances and windows draped and heavy black velvet curtains, black and white marble floors and scarlet wallpaper that was quote, the color of new blood. It is just dripping in that ambiance and really paints an excellent picture for me.

SPEAKER_01 14:28

Yeah, the the like intricacy and ornateness of everything. Like it is this is luxury, like especially at like at that time. And like again, for that area, it it's everything, honestly, it's everything Grim Manor probably was at one point and could be again, like if it was cared for again.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

Yeah. Um, it is also magical in that there are rooms that appear and disappear, doorways that appear and disappear, or can be summoned, but there's also um secret, like true secret passageways to be found. There's a lot of poll quotes that have added here of just there are too many magic doors in this place. The manor has a mind of its own, it chooses when to manifest its guests' greatest fears. The manor moves its rooms around for its haunts and traps all haunts and traps all the time. Um and we we first see this when Ophelia is first assigned her room and then kind of is following this cat and comes upon a another room and doorway that she the scene is long, but very good. Um but then as she's trying to escape this or trying to refind it, it turns out to just be a broom closet. Um, but I wanted to go. Ophelia is assigned a room 426, which is my freshman dorm room number. Um very much less haunted, much, much less haunted, but I just thought that was funny.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

I couldn't tell you what I could tell you the first two digits, but I don't remember the last two. I know it was four digits because I was on the 12th floor, but that's the only reason I remember it was 12 something.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

It was 426 and then 211.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Yeah, I have sophomore year.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

And then I was off campus. Um, speaking of off-campus, let's talk about the classification of ghosts and paranormal beings. It's not a segue. For those, for those of you who have ever been in a meeting with me, that is how I segue everything. Um, so I'm just bringing it here. Um so you touched on this. This has necromancy, which is one of your favorite things. But the Grim family is a long line of necromancers. And upon Tessie's death, Ophelia has to absorb Tessie's magic, which changes her eye color and allows her to start seeing all of these ghosts.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

I thought this was one of like the coolest magic things. Like I agree. That she is like she it's a choice. Yeah. Does she want it or does she not? Because Genevieve could also have taken the magic, but was not trained to do it, but was not trained to do it, but also didn't want to. Yeah. But like only one can exist. And uh that's not it's not a new thing. There are other places like other tropes, or that does is a trope that exists elsewhere in the in lore. Um, if you ever watched the show Merlin, um, it's the same, like the dragon whisperer or whatever that he can talk to dragons and control them or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

No, that's what I would like to do.

SPEAKER_01 17:34

And that is only one at a time, like, or like within a line, I think. Got it. So um I I think that that that was fascinating. That like she had to choose it, she had to accept it, and like that she had to train in it without doing without being able to do it. It was completely 100% theoretical.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

So I I thought that was exciting.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

I did too. And then it comes back to Biter, right? Like she has absorbed this magic and in Phantasmus, she doesn't quite know how to use it, other than now she can see all of these ghosts and other paranormal beings. Um, which I also really love that we get a little description of how ghosts are classified in this world. We have apparitions, ghouls, phantoms, and they're each different and have different kind of I don't want to say roles, but um reasons, reasons to to be, I guess. Like apparitions are souls that just haven't crossed over yet. Um, ghouls are ones that have taken too long to cross over and have kind of become a zombie ghost, I would say. And then phantoms are the most like uh rare of them all. Um and phantoms are are usually the the at the ghost of a paranormal being. And so when we first meet Blackwell, she's like, oh, he's a phantom. Um he must be a phantom. And Blackwell's like, yes, I am. I am a phantom. You are correct.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

Um she also meets a poltergeist, which is the fourth class classification. And that is like a more what you would that what's that's what you would expect. It is a malicious um spirit that will like possess you.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Yeah, take over your body.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

Take over.

SPEAKER_00 19:19

And then there's also the paranormal beings, which we are more, I think, more familiar with devils and demons. We have vampires and specters. And what's interesting is that all of the devils um that we meet and as part of this world, they have a devil's mark. Some of them being like your traditional horns or third eye, others being um cat-like eyes with like the slit uh pupils or golden tattoos that cover their bodies.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

Those sounded fantastic. If I could have golden tattoos that shimmered like metallic in in but there's always some sort of tell that a devil is a devil, but sometimes it's not what you you think it's gonna be. Correct.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

All right. So we've talked about New Orleans, Grim Manor, Phantasma the House, the classification of ghosts, and kind of Ophelia's magic. And now let's talk about Phantasma the game.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Okay, bring on the trials, y'all.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

So the Devil's Manor is home to nine levels of a hellish game that is overseen by the devils. And the only way out once you enter is through forfeit, death, or winning. Which you know what? At least you get a forfeit. You can forfeit.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

Yeah. Like you're whatever you've experienced up into that point, you're still going to like, I think one um contestant forfeited, but they'd already lost an eye because it gotten pecked out by by your birds.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

Oh, you mean my note that says birds within? Uh yeah. Because the price to enter this game is you have to tell what your greatest fear is.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

I don't know that like, and here's the thing like Ophelia didn't even know. She's like, I have so many fears. Like, pick one. I don't know. And then, like, then she realizes when it when they take it, she realizes what it is, and then she's like, Oh crap. I don't know what it would be for me.

SPEAKER_00 21:15

The devil would find out.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

I mean, they would find out, I would know, I would find out very quickly. Yeah, but I just I don't even know what to say, like what I would think or anticipate it would be. Um but that being said, I do think that it's very kind that even if I was afraid of being having my eyes pecked out by birds and one of them did, I could still at least leave and then it'll just be one eye.

SPEAKER_00 21:36

That's true and be alive, which would be quite nice. But there's also only one winner. And at the at the end, the winner gets a devil's wish or a devil's grant. Um, and we go through this assuming that Ophelia wants some sort of wish to save Grim Manor. Um, but she's also entered Phantasma as a way to find her sister because she has decided and and come to the Conclusion after reading kind of through her sister's diaries that Genevieve, having known about the house, has entered Phantasma to also save Grim Banner.

SPEAKER_01 22:09

Which, like, is it and Ophelia says this. She's like, you don't even like woo-woo stuff.

SPEAKER_00 22:15

Yeah, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 22:16

Why, why would you do this? And then Ophelia, and Ophelia says, she's like, it's not that I don't like woo-woo stuff, it's that I don't like the way that it has existed in our lives, right, and how we have to keep our lives so separate. Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

Genevieve doesn't let it consume her in the same way that Ophelia has. So this is also full, the Phantasma of the game and the manor is full of ghosts, both apparitions and ghouls, um, and devils who introduce each trial. Uh, and one particular phantom that we talked about, uh, Blackwell, who is quite charming. Uh, and Ophelia makes a deal with Blackwell to help him escape Phantasma because he is bound to the house, but also loses his memories. And if she fails, she loses one decade of her life. In exchange, he's like, I'll help you win. I'll help you get through these trials and I'll help you search the house to get me out.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

By the way, most of the people that I make bargains with, they win. They win.

SPEAKER_00 23:12

Hmm. Isn't that lovely? Um, but the payment of 10 years of her life reminded me of the goblin market scene. She was when the grave witch was like, What's 15 days? Like, what's 15 days off your life? It's totally fine. Like, Mara, get over it. And well, and like now, 10 years, very, very different. Very different, especially in the like late 1800s, early 1900s.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

And she's like, Well, but what if what if I only have 10 years left? What if I don't have 10 years left? Then like I'm just gonna die right now. And so then he's like, Oh, don't worry, you've got a really long life ahead of you because I looked at your lifeline.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Don't you worry about it. Um, the house also hosts haunts, which are both very general, but then very specific to each of the players. And it really reminded me of like a haunted house that you would go to with scare actors of like, oh, ghoul number one is over here coming out of a bloody bathtub. Horrifying, don't get me wrong, and I don't go to haunted houses for exactly that reason. Um, but it that's what it reminded like they are all players in this game, players in this haunted house creating things to terrify the trial participants.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

So I I have two things. One, how rude that I have to go through the trial itself. And I also have to experience these haunts and things. Like that that's just insane. Two, I do go to haunted houses and I love going to haunted houses. And if you've ever been to a haunted house with me, um, you will know that um I have a very specific reaction. When I am frightened, I do not scream. I cackle.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

She she does the same thing on roller coasters.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

I I cackle like a freaking witch. And dude, so I'm like, what would I do? Would I just laugh at a bull?

SPEAKER_00 25:16

Descend into madness the same way that kind of everybody here does, and they'd be like, This girl is nuts. She's laughing because there's so many mentions of Ophelia. Like, she's like, I started laughing and I didn't know why.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

And it's like, yeah, because you're losing your mind. I'm just, I'm like, I would just be cackling the entire time. And they they would probably, I feel like they would do what some of the actors in like the haunted houses do, which is like, I gotta follow her because I've got, like, I've got to figure this out. But what is wrong with her?

SPEAKER_00 25:47

Um yeah, no, haunted house is not for me, especially one where now you know what my greatest fear is and it's up to you when you're gonna show it to me.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

You know what? I don't have to worry about it. I already experienced my greatest fear whenever I go into Haunted House's clouds.

SPEAKER_00 26:03

She's right. But yeah, there is one where uh one of the contestants' greatest fear is birds, and he ends up uh experiencing that haunt and has his eye pecked out by a swarm of a thousand crows. And Ophelia was like, he's scared. Like this little, I don't know, this little chicken is scared of birds. Like, really, that's your greatest fear. And I was like, Well, actually, crows are very smart and could be terrifying.

SPEAKER_01 26:31

Um, and if they're especially if a thousand of them were swarming you and attacking you.

SPEAKER_00 26:38

Anyway, so that's my there's your birds within moment for this book, everybody. I'm sure we'll have more next time. You definitely will. Uh, but then they have the trials. Okay. So the trials are actually trials, they're not like solve this riddle. Um, where we had trials in uh quite a few of our books, like these just felt much better to me. The stakes felt so high.

SPEAKER_01 27:04

Well, I think the component of the riddle of like, we're gonna give you the answer, but we're not gonna give you the answer. And like that, you have to actually like you have to actually think it through strategically from the start.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:19

Like, and it's not just random strategy, like it's no, I'm gonna give you the answer, figure it out.

SPEAKER_00 27:26

Right. Use this knowledge as you enter through this portal into this game, into this trial. And they're based off of the nine levels of hell, um, which is fantastic storytelling, in my opinion. But they're intense, they're gory. Um, our first trial, Ophelia walks through the portal and realizes all of her senses but sight are gone. And so, very similar to uh if you watched our our reels about um winter song, the lack of senses drove the storytelling here and how she had to figure that out. It is complete sensory deprivation in this level of limbo.

SPEAKER_01 28:03

Which, if you like, you want to talk about things that will drive you into madness, yeah, like not being able to feel, like looking at myself holding this mug, walking, walking, but not being able to feel the mug in my hand or the ground under my feet or the wall that I'm leaning against that is gonna move and crush me. That's gonna move and crush me. Like again, that that that enough.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:27

Like, or that alone is enough to like drive somebody a little bit crazy.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

And then the second trial is lust. And I loved this scene. And Ophelia has to make a choice early on in the trial of like which vial she wants to to drink from. And the one she selected ends up being bloodlust, but we never find out what the other versions of lust are. So rude. Which I agree. Maybe they're in an enchantra, but that wouldn't make sense, but maybe. Um, but I was so like, okay, but tell me what the other ones are, because there's three other types of lust that she could have selected.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

I don't, I don't even like, I'm trying to even think, like off the top of my head, what kind of money? Yeah, like, but that's greed. I like I would just bloodlust, I'm like, that's the one I would go to. So I mean, Kaylee Smith, if you're watching, please tell us what the other lust options were.

SPEAKER_00 29:21

Yeah, we need to know. Um, we mentioned just briefly the third trial is greed, which I will talk about later. Um, but the last one I wanted to mention is the eighth trial.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

So good.

SPEAKER_00 29:34

Amazing. So Ophelia has to decide between um these illusions of Genevieve which one of them is truly her. And if she chooses wrong, Genevieve IRL dies. Which is so much pressure. Yes, and heartbreaking. Um because she just finally saved her, you know. She just reconnects with her, right? And then she's presented with these well-done illusions of Genevieve and has to figure out which one of them, if either, are actually her. She also puts together the pieces of how this trial in particular is connected to her mother's death. So very good when she puts those pieces together.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

Well, and like she hasn't even at this point, she has not had the time to truly mourn the loss of her mother. Now, she did, like, with the whispering gate, there was that moment where she gets a little, like a little bit of closure, but like she has not full-on mourned. And like, how trauma, I mean, honestly, how traumatic to like find your mother dead.

SPEAKER_02 30:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

And then be like, I have to go into like repair mode. Eldest daughter mode. Which I did see in the notes. Eldest daughter TM.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

Eldest daughter TM. Right. I have to go into like my logical, what are the next steps that I have to take.

SPEAKER_01 31:05

I have to accept this magic before midnight. I have to sew her eyeballs shut. And then I have to like take care of, like, I have to take care of her body. Yeah. And then I have to figure out how to learn and like absorb this new power. And I have to like take care of her appointments, and I have to take care of Genevieve because Genevieve always needs to be taken care of, as far as I'm concerned. So, like, you just go into that mode, and like we can both understand and relate. So, wow. To then have to then be confronted with, okay, I've reconnected with my sister, I've saved her, I've done what I came here to do on that end. Now I like I just want to get out and like try and save everything the rest of the way. And so good. Like, then feel like you're about to lose it all again.

unknown 31:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:52

I'm not gonna spoil um kind of some of the really delicious twists or things that Ophelia puts together. They're so good. But it's so great, y'all. And we highly recommend, highly recommend. Okay, so we've had a chance to walk through this world kind of beginning to end of New Orleans, the manner founded in reality, the manner founded in devils, the magic and ghosts, and then Phantasma the game. Anything else about the world before we move on?

SPEAKER_01 32:20

No. I there there was like a magic thing. Yes. There well I I don't wanna all I will say is I really appreciated that uh Ophelia is not the only paranormal in the game that is a contestant. Um and that her magic is so much more than her mother's. Yes. And why that is.

SPEAKER_00 32:48

Oh my gosh, this book is so good.

SPEAKER_01 32:49

Because like I I just like I want to talk about that magic component, but like I I don't want to spoil too many things because this is just this is a book that just has to be read.

SPEAKER_00 33:00

Agree. Let's talk a little bit more about Ophelia as a character, though. Because I think that's really important. She is central to the story. We've said from the from the get you know, her she finds her mother has passed, um, she has to absorb absorb her mom's magic and is responsible for Grim Manor, for the business, um, truly the eldest daughter, right? She is in charge, she's got to take care of everything. In the process, she also gains this magical locket that becomes um very important in the end of the story. But I loved the idea of that locket and how it would somewhat guide her through these trials and um truly being just like follow your heart. In fact, as I was looking for um accessories to wear for today's episode, I was like, let me just buy a heart-shaped locket real quick. I didn't, but May Jean Vintage, I'm eyeballing some things on your site right now. Um, she also has what she describes as the shadow voice in her head. And this is uh Kaylee Smith's representation of obsessive-compulsive disorder. And Smith draws on her own experiences of having OCD to write this, which I thought was so important, such incredible representation, by drawing on these experiences and making them come to life within this world and within this time period. Um, I just really loved the depiction of all of that and of OCD throughout this story.

SPEAKER_01 34:28

Yeah, I think, and it's very on-brand, like that if I was a paranormal entity or I was in a paranormal world, I my OCD would manifest that way. Yeah. Especially like it just it also speaks to like she is sheltered, she is scared. Of course, it's gonna manifest as like a fear thing. Um, and in that time, that she's gonna be told that it's some kind of spirit, spirit or entity versus hey, this is like this is a just a medical thing that with some kind of therapy we can at least address. Yeah, you know? Um again, another thing that puts us in that time.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

Yes, exactly. Really appreciated that. And her journey throughout this book is one of many decisions. She has to decide who she is in this new world without her mom, but absorbing this magic. And who does she wish to be? Who was she trained to be? What does she want from life? Um, and also how many rules can she break? Because it newsflash, it's all of them. She breaks them all. You know what? But some rules are made to be broken. That's true. Uh, I really like her vibe though. There's often points where she's like, I laughed and I like I laughed at just like the insanity of this situation, or um, I fought the urge to roll her eyes at the pure drama. Like, same, same. Like, especially as I'm reading some fantasy books, like, oh my God, you're so dramatic. But to have a main character that is in line with my own thoughts was really fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:01

And she's I liked, I made a note at one point that I loved that we would get like she would exist in a space and she would be like not listening to the conversations around her. So we were getting things that she wasn't even really actually contemplating. But then she'd be like, oh wait, I heard them talking about that. I just didn't care. It was in my own head. I didn't care about it then. But uh, but oh, but that makes sense now. I do remember that name. Like, and just like so like uncon So real. Yeah, like so unconcerned with like anything outside of like her wants, needs. Yeah. Things like that.

SPEAKER_00 36:43

Speaking of wants and needs, let's talk about Blackwell. He is a phantom bound to the house, described as having bright white hair and emerald green eyes. He is impossibly handsome and full of praise for Ophelia. Lots of good girls being passed around by by Mr. Blackwell. Um, but he himself is even unsure of how long he's been trapped in Phantasma. Um, he loses his memories all of the time. Uh, he can't even quite remember the first time he met Ophelia, which was kind of a chance encounter when she first stumbles upon Phantasma the Manor, seeing, like, oh crap, it's overtaken the cathedral. There's a voice that comes to her on the other side of the gate. We learn that that was Blackwell, Blackwell's voice or spirit coming to her, um, saying, I can be freed with a heart and a key. Another riddle. But Blackwell has some really great magic throughout all of this. He can use his magic to change his clothes, change positions, um, also heal Ophelia, and then really insert himself into all of the trials to ensure that she survives and wins.

SPEAKER_01 37:55

Well, and it's nice because he knows the answer because he has watched the trials, don't change, they are always the same, which also makes it like why have not why have winners not been like sharing this information?

SPEAKER_02 38:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:08

But like, I guess also maybe if maybe that's part of NDA. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:16

What if the winners get their memories wiped after they get their devil's grant? Oh, that's interesting. That would be really great.

SPEAKER_01 38:21

But this is all just this is all speculation. Um, but like it, I circling back to Ophelia, that her necromancy powers give her a little bit of a healing boost anyway. Oh man, I would kill for that because my body does not like me.

SPEAKER_00 38:36

Add it to the list of mythical beings Ash wants to be.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

A necromancer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:40

Um something I loved about the deal here is that to summon Blackwell, you have to say his name three times. And I was like, oh, it's Beetlejuice. He's here. The ghost with the most is back. Should have put him in his pin space. I loved it. Yeah, we definitely no, yeah, he would. Yeah. What if we did like a costume crossover? I mean, Ophelia could wear like a Lydia red rose dress.

SPEAKER_01 39:03

Right.

SPEAKER_00 39:03

Okay, so look, when he didn't well, but let me just circle back that whenever there's too much corporate talk on this episode. Let me circle back.

SPEAKER_01 39:12

Whenever my husband makes a video game character, he loves making them with white hair. He's obsessed, he wants white hair. Like he's just interesting.

SPEAKER_00 39:20

I'm getting that in my back pocket.

SPEAKER_01 39:22

And then um, he has like green hazel eyes and he like is obsessed with the idea of having green eyes. And so I was like, huh. All right. So I'm gonna get you to do this for Halloween. There you go. Got it, got it, got it. But now an Ophelia Lydia Dietz Beetlejuice Blackwell crossover.

SPEAKER_00 39:38

That's so niche.

SPEAKER_01 39:39

My life is complete.

SPEAKER_00 39:40

So niche. Um, but important to note about Blackwell is he's not who he seems.

SPEAKER_01 39:45

Which Ophelia is smart enough to identify, but is also stuck between a rock and a hard place. And she's like, all right, devil I do or devil I don't. Well, I'm just this is I have no choice.

SPEAKER_00 39:59

Yeah. Oh, before we move on, I thought of something else.

SPEAKER_01 40:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:03

So back to Phantasma, the game. Um, there are one of the rules of Phantasma is don't fall in love.

SPEAKER_01 40:09

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:10

Because if you do, it results in a curse. Um, and we see this through one one pair of the contestants where she says, like, yes, I do love this other guy. And then the curse is her skin burns anytime that he touches her. Um, and then Ophelia is trying to tow this line of like, what are her feelings for Blackwell, understanding this curse. Um, but I wanted to come back to that because I thought that was really interesting. Well, and I it's not just like don't fall in love. It's like, no, no, really don't, because it's gonna it's gonna ruin your life.

SPEAKER_01 40:44

But also, speaking of the first pair, the fact that that was the most, I think that was the most heartbreaking moment of this whole book because she admits that she's in love with him. And then the next thing is it reveals that he doesn't love her. And so she's still cursed, but he's not.

SPEAKER_00 41:09

But spoiler, he's the one that gets his eye pecked out.

SPEAKER_01 41:11

Yeah, well, he deserved it.

SPEAKER_00 41:12

He sure does. But okay, sorry, I just wanted to go back to that.

SPEAKER_01 41:15

But no, but I think that's a that is a wonderful component because it's not just some arbitrary rule of like, hey, don't fall in love. It's not good for you. No, it's literally gonna ruin your life. It's gonna ruin your life.

SPEAKER_00 41:26

Yeah. Okay. Anything else? Oh, we're jumping all over the place because we're waxing poetic. About the sensory immersion, because we're in New Orleans, we get such great descriptions of food. I couldn't stop like drooling because it's, I mean, the rich gumbo, the honeyed cornbread, crawfish etuffe, red beans and rice. I'm like, okay, I gotta go pack my bag and get down to New Orleans stat.

SPEAKER_01 41:49

Like right, right now.

SPEAKER_00 41:50

Right.

SPEAKER_01 41:50

Our bags are actually in the car right now.

SPEAKER_00 41:53

We're actually leaving. Um, bye. Thank you guys so much.

SPEAKER_01 41:56

We should have just recorded this in New Orleans. There's time. It's fine. We can we can go. We can just go. Yeah. We'll just re-record this. It's fine.

SPEAKER_00 42:03

But there's really good sensory descriptions of the sounds of New Orleans and also the sounds of the haunts, the smells of everything like magnolia, um, the honeyed cornbread. I just keep coming back to that.

SPEAKER_01 42:15

Well, because this is what I want.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

Um, all really great sensory immersion. Okay. So portal moments. Yeah. I'm gonna let I'm gonna let you go first. Okay, so as a reminder, y'all, at the end of every episode, we talk about our portal moment. And this is the this the scene in the book where we felt the most immersed or where the world felt the biggest. Um and for me, it was the third trial, which was greed. Uh, Ophelia is in, uh, and all of the other contestants on her floor are in cages, and below them is a pit of lava. And she has to like figure out like, what are we doing here? She summons Blackwell, he helps, but there's a chain, and she has to climb the wall that she is next to through the cage. She feels her nails breaking, she feels the dirt and the rocks underneath as she's trying to pull out these um coins and and stack them against the chain. And all in the back of her mind, she knows that her actions directly impact the other contestants. And so she is coming to terms with like, I really want to win and survive. And also like that is going to harm other people. But her determination and perseverance, the heat of it, the the burning of the chain when she accidentally touches it, the stakes, all of that I was sat, I was in, I loved it so much. Biggest moment for me in the book.

SPEAKER_01 43:40

So I went back and forth. Um, and mine is one, I love like before she's in Phantasma. I I think we both can agree that like we were we were present, we were bought in with the sensory immersion of like walking in New Orleans. Yeah. Um I really liked in the it's seven, yeah, seventh trial when she um has to choose the ra or the wrath one. Oh and she she makes the conscious choice to fight Cade. Yes. Because one, how fucking petty. I'm sorry, excuse my French, but it's new. So petty. And also so like re and she's never like weak with Cade. Like she always holds her own. But to not just like hold her own emotionally, but also be like, I'm going to end you because you have hurt too many people. Yeah, you've hurt too many people. And like I'm crossing a line I didn't think I would cross because I've already crossed so many. And you don't deserve this. And I'm gonna make sure that you can't have it. And like, yeah. I was like, yes, get it.

SPEAKER_00 45:05

Take him out. I think I have a quote pulled for Ophelia that is after that scene where she it is, she found that she liked the blood on her hands just a little too much.

SPEAKER_01 45:15

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 45:15

And I was like, oh no, like she's lost your mind and I love it. I'm here with her.

SPEAKER_01 45:19

Yeah. I just I was like, I I was sitting there watching and I was like, oh, yep, do it, do it. Cause I like I know those moments and I've like I've never been in a position where it would make of a wrath trial. Yes. Yeah. But like I do, like I do carry a lot of wrath and like rage. I know everyone that knows me is so shocked. They're like, what? You know. Never. I've never been on the phone with you while you're driving. Um, but like to to allow that to unleash, like because you can't, like be in a in an environment which it's okay to. I think like I think was that was it was a little cathartic for me.

SPEAKER_00 45:58

It was so good. I almost selected um when the house decided to show her her greatest fear.

SPEAKER_01 46:04

Oh yeah. No, that was so powerful. Because she literally just identified too. She's like, oh, they've not shown me mine yet.

SPEAKER_00 46:14

Yes. Well, and even in the moment when the house is haunting her with her greatest fear, I did not recognize that that's what was going on. I was like, oh no, this is like true and real and actually happening. I'm not gonna spoil it. But yeah, that was another, another portal moment for me.

SPEAKER_01 46:29

Agreed. Nope. So good. I feel like we could talk about this book forever days. Um, but is there anything else that we probably or that we don't mind spoiling or talking about for the sake of the pod?

SPEAKER_00 46:45

The spice is good.

SPEAKER_01 46:46

Oh, it's so good.

SPEAKER_00 46:48

So if you're looking for spice, it's it's here.

SPEAKER_01 46:50

It's present and good. Yeah. There you go. And and not uh detracting from the story, like still great story all around it. Like almost additive to the story. Yeah, supplemental, yeah, in a best way. I think that's it though. Okay. Uh well, that's a wrap, then, I guess, on this episode of Worlds Within, where story becomes space. So before we go, let's give Phantasma our immersion ratings on a scale of one to ten portals.

SPEAKER_00 47:21

I'm going eight and a half out of ten. Well, I'm gonna go nine, actually. I'm gonna go nine out of ten. The the only thing holding me back is the confusion of the um like the time period for me. And not that it was super important, but there it felt like there was effort made, but not quite enough for me. Um, but everything else I I quite loved. I loved the the contrast of Grim Manor versus Phantasma the Manor. I loved the trials, I loved New Orleans and still and always will. Um, so many things about this book worked for me, ate it up, like beginning to end, was was pretty immersed.

SPEAKER_01 48:03

Yeah. I I'm gonna give it an Ion as well. That was where where I was leaning, just because um for me, I I was struggling, and I think this was a little bit just the environment I was in when I was reading it. I was struggling to like stay in, but that's also because I was home alone with my one-year-old. And like, you know, even when she's asleep, she even when she's asleep, she's busy and she needs stuff. So um, but I mean, but it was super easy to get into and be in when I was there. So yeah, I loved it.

SPEAKER_00 48:38

Oh, great. Well, thanks y'all for joining us in the haunted halls of phantasma, full of ghosts and devils. Your worst fears and trials that actually felt trialing. The lessons learned here follow your heart. Don't trust cats. Uh, we didn't really allude to that, but there is a cat that's kind of a spy throughout this book. Uh, and think twice about men with white hair, unless you're Ash and you marry one that is wanting to have white hair. But up next, we're knocking on the gates of Starling House by Alex E. Harrow. Until then, lock the door, close the curtains, follow us on Instagram and TikTok, and let us know where you feel story became space. Bye.

SPEAKER_01 49:19

Thanks again for joining us for another episode of Worlds Within, where story becomes space. Follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Worlds Within Pod for more episodes, sensory guides to your favorite books, and more.

SPEAKER_00 49:31

And don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast streaming platform. Bye.