The Bone Ships by R.J. Barker: High Fantasy Pirates and Sea Dragons

Join us as we discuss the intricate and complex world in The Bone Ships by R.J. Barker. This is the first in the completed Tide Child trilogy. In this episode, we explore this violent world forced to consume itself, a dragon unlike one we have ever seen, and giant ships made of bone. 

Transcript: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2544531/19351555-the-bone-ships-by-r-j-barker-high-fantasy-pirates-and-sea-dragons/transcript

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome back to Worlds Within, where story becomes space. We're your hosts, Alyssa and Asht, and every episode we explore fictional worlds that don't just live on the page, they pull you in, build themselves around you, and let you wander through them. This is a podcast for readers who don't just love books, they live in them. We dive deep into sensory storytelling, character perspectives, and the world-building mechanics that turn fiction into a fully immersive experience.

SPEAKER_02 0:27

Ollie there and welcome back to our Seabound season. We hope you've shifted out of your mermaid form from our last episode and are ready to set sail to board the Bone Ships by RJ Barker. So raise the sails and be on the lookout for something lurking beneath the waves while we chat about it.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

But first, y'all is our plot teaser. And today we have a cup of dragon oolong tea brewing. And this is inspired by the dragons throughout this book or lack thereof. To get it right into it, The Bone Chips is the first in the Tide Chat Tide Child Trilogy by RJ Barker and was published in September of 2019. It's a tongue teaser. Tide Child Tide Child Trilogy. Six sick sheep. Now the first dragon in centuries has been spotted in far-off waters, and both sides see a chance to shift the balance of power in their favor. Because whoever catches it will win not only glory, but the war.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

That's good. I mean, I so I had never I hadn't seen this one at all. Um this was nowhere near my TBR. Um but I mean, water dragons, pirate piratey type ships, like naval warfare. Like, yeah, like sure. It it definitely was on brand for the season.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Yeah, I had seen this book on the shelves at Barnes and Noble and picked it up, put it down, picked it up, put it down, but ultimately walked away. And when we were thinking about this season, it came to mind, primarily the cover. Um, less so the synopsis. I was like, yeah, I pick I remember looking at a book about ships. Let me think about it. Um but the synopsis hooked me when I revisited this one when I ultimately re-found the book. And I was definitely curious to read this style of fantasy because it's much more epic and high fantasy than some of the other ones that we've read. Um but yeah, otherwise I I was interested and curious, um, but maybe wasn't initially on my TBR.

SPEAKER_02 2:47

Yeah. So what were your first impressions?

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Okay, wow. Um, my first impressions were this world is incredibly complex and intricate. But once I got into it, I remained pretty interested, but it did take a little bit of time because Barkirk just kind of throws you in. Uh, this is not quite what I expected, but I really liked it. I enjoyed some of the characters, and I'm curious to keep reading this trilogy, but the world here is just so unlike anything that I've read before. Um, I needed to pause frequently and think about like, okay, how am I gonna outline this episode? Like, what are what are the key points we're gonna talk about here, which I don't know, both contributed and took away from my experience. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:35

I I would just like to disclaimer first that my first impressions of this book should not deter people from reading this book. I do think that, like, and we'll talk about this more in the in the rest of the episode. This is a very well-written book. Completely. It is, it is a very objectively, it is a good book. Unfortunately, it just wasn't for me. And it's okay. And that's okay. You don't have to like every boy every book. I don't have to like every book that I read in general or that we do on this pod. Again, it can objectively be a good book, and I don't have to like it. Yeah. So I I really struggled with this one. I just I I couldn't get hooked. And I I again I'm like sitting there and I'm like, wow, this sensory, this sensory description is very, very good. Like this, oh, this world building mechanic is great. But you don't care. But I don't care. Yeah. And it was really sad because I really wanted to like this book because it was objectively good.

SPEAKER_01 4:39

Yeah. And that's okay. Um, well, maybe let's talk about the world and the and the folks in it and and where you felt connected versus where you felt disconnected.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

I think it's a great idea.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

So, first up, our characters here. I've only focused on two in our outline. Um, we have quite the cast of characters because we are aboard and offboard of various ships, and ships come with crews. I haven't named all of them, but there are many. Um, but our main character here is Joran Twiner, and this is entirely his point of view. He is a young captain of a ship called the Tide Child. Um, and and we open up this book with him trying to drink himself to death. Um, he's naive, he's gentle, but he is seeking some direction and leadership. He learns really quickly and does adapt to the leadership once Mies um art, the next character we'll talk about, takes over. Um and Jordan's experience is really colored by grief. Uh, he he has lost his father, and um, we learn later that he has been banished to the Tide Child, which is a blackbone ship or kind of like a prison-ish ship, um, because of how he has reacted to his father's death. Um Yeah, what are your thoughts about Joran?

SPEAKER_02 5:57

I I think I I really felt for him, yeah, truly, because he's uh so conflicted the whole book. And the fact that he like he feels that he's disappointed his father, and also like does like he wants to do his father proud but doesn't know how and is just trying to, as you said, drink himself to death and join his father. And then like he kind of he spends a lot of time resisting like Mayus' control because he's like he finds that one little source of pride of like whether I earned this or not, like this is the only thing I have left, is that I am I am the shipwife. Yeah. And now you're taking that from me. And what do I have left then? Yeah, who am I? But then he learns, like you said, he's certain he's seeking for direction and leadership, and he learns so much under her and grows, and I his growth is really, really beautifully done.

SPEAKER_01 6:57

And I think there's more to Jorin than we know in the first book. We get these like foreshadowing moments from other characters about Joran's greater connection to some of the creatures and the ecology of this world that I am so curious to learn more about. But keeping to just the bone chips, yeah, that's just hinted at. Yes. And not necessarily built upon.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

Well, and I I had this, I had this as a note. There's not a lot of magic in this world. Like this is a very real world. But there is so much of him that hints at a greater magic in the world that I I mean, I'm interested for you to tell me.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

Okay. That's great. I'm interested for you to tell me what happens. And I will. I will. Um, our second character here that is, I mean, she's moving the plot forward, is Mies Gilbrin. And she comes, she's known as Lucky Mies. She has a very interesting backstory. But she comes, finds Joran and takes over his ship and his crew and says, I'm the shipwife now, like I'm the captain now. I am the captain. I am the captain now, and you will fall in line, or you can get off. Like, I don't care. But Mies is called Lucky Mies because she is the first burn to the 13th burn, who I guess is kind of the queen, we'll say. Um, and in this world, if you are a first burn, uh, and we'll talk more about that, you are sacrificed to the ships as a baby. Um, but Mies survived that commitment ceremony and has been just a force to be reckoned with since.

SPEAKER_02 8:44

Yeah, she she was a fascinating character. Yeah. Um and I I will say for as hard and dedicated as she is, her very, the very first interaction we have with her is one of mercy. Because when she challenges Joran to take over his ship, she could, she should and could have just killed him. Yeah. And instead, she says, No, I'm I'm gonna take you on, I'm gonna demote you, I'm gonna take your place, but you are now my second in command. And it's like almost like she sees the potential needs and like what he could be, and then like helps him grow.

SPEAKER_01 9:26

Yeah, she's just incredibly capable and confident. She is smart and she's really committed to principle. Um, there's a quote here saying she's the most decorated, the bravest, the fiercest shipwife the Hundred Isles had ever seen. And then you're wondering, like, well, if that's true, why has she been sent to the black bone ship?

SPEAKER_00 9:46

Hmm.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

Curious about Lucky Mies. But as I said earlier, she is really the one driving the plot forward. All right, we've got an understanding of who the main players on the board are. There is another character, but I've put them in um the world as opposed to a character, but we'll get to them later. But let's talk about the world. All right. It's a pretty vast world. Oh my gosh, it's nuts. And it's just so, like I said, so unlike anything I've read before. Um but for as big as it is, I didn't have any trouble tracking the the location, like the world. The physicality, no. The mythology, a little bit of challenge. Um, but the physical location, we are primarily in the hundred isles. And this is part of the kingdom or one kingdom in this world that is home to the burn and the burn caste. The burn is um like the higher class of individuals, and that status is determined by birth. Um, you are considered burn if the mother survives giving birth to you, and you are a child that is unmarked. So you don't have any um limb differences, facial anomalies, et cetera, et cetera. If either of those things aren't true, like your mother passes while giving birth to you, or you are born with a limb difference, you are considered burn caste. And the burn caste live in poverty. They are the working class. Um and then the burn continue to reproduce with what they call kept men. So that is just like how the social structure in this world and the importance of birth here.

SPEAKER_02 11:29

Yeah. It's wild. And also, I really I this is gonna be this is gonna sound dumb. I appreciate that it's the men that are kept. Because that is so different from most, like generally, it's women are like the concubines. Yeah. But nene. Nene, it is the men.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

There actually is a lot of like feminist perspective to this world, right? Like, it's not like your ship wife, like that's the captain and commander name. It's ship wife, it's not ship husband or whatever you want to call it. Um, and women can hold these positions of power, and your status and your uh power as a woman is is directly tied to one thing that men can't do. Like they can't give birth. It's also showing up in their um their gods. So they have a female holy trinity, essentially, the mother, the maiden, and the hag. Um, the maiden is young, right? She is kind of the goddess of of that. The mother is the the god of the people, and the hag is the goddess of death and or the sea. Um I just liked that female holy trinity there.

SPEAKER_02 12:38

I I I love any female holy trinity.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

And then another part of the the belief system here is Scareth, the great bird, and he is like the the god of all things, the god of creation there.

SPEAKER_02 12:50

And also kind of the sun and the moon. Yeah. Because like the sun and the moon. Yeah, the sun is Scareth's eye. Yeah. But then the moon is Scareth's blind eye. Yeah. And then what I would have attributed to like our Polaris is Scareth's beak.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

Yep. So it's just I love it's so embedded in, and we'll talk about this, but the language from the mythology and um the feminist lens and principles that this world is founded on come through in the language, and like, ah, I really, I really liked this book.

SPEAKER_02 13:24

It was very much like nettle and bone in that like everything was just of the world. Yes. Like, we didn't get there, we got hints of like Scareth's like lore and like the story, and we got we got hints of some of the other things, but like it was all just kind of presented as this is right, and that's it.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

Oh, I loved it. Um, and as I mentioned, the first burn babies. So these are babies who um are born where mothers have survived and they are unmarked and they have no um visible disabilities or differences. These babies are sacrificed to the hag, and their souls are used as lights on the bone ships. Um but one of the central tensions here is that we are kind of always short on burn babies. And this is B-E-R-N, not B-U-R-N. Burn babies. Like this is a central plot point, and this world is consuming its people and itself. And you're like, well, for what?

SPEAKER_02 14:22

And then you find out why this was, I think this is another reason this was so hard for me. Yeah. Um as a new mom. Yeah. You know, because I just can't imagine. Yeah. Um so do we want to talk about why they let's talk about it. Okay. So obviously we we're on a a blackbone ship, which that does not get what they call corpse lights. Yep. It it is a cursed ship. It is definitely seen as like as a bad thing.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

A sentence. Yeah, you have been sentenced to a black ship. Yeah, like that is a and it is a death sentence, essentially. And you're not part of like the fleet, you're not part of um the duty-bound white bone ships that are part of like the naval fleet. You are kind of cast aside.

SPEAKER_02 15:16

Yes, and and it it is kind of you become burned cast in some way. Whereas the white bone ships, which are fleet and are therefore naval, those are something you strive for. And you can tell what they call the health of the ship by their corpse lights and how many they have and how brightly or what color they shine. The burn the first burn babies are sacrificed to these ships to light those corpse lights. Yeah. And they have like a whole ceremony, and they have three priests that recog represent the the maiden, the mother, and the hag. And it just was that was such a terrif, terrible thing. Yeah, and they're horrific. And the whole like one of the points of contention of this war, not the only, but one of, is that well, the the Gaunt Isles, the other country kingdom, they steal our children to s feed their corpse lights. So we steal their children to feed our corpse lights, but when we can't do that, we sacrifice our own. It's crazy. And I'm just like, the whole concept of like, okay, we don't want it's very hunger games. Like, we don't want children to die, but we're gonna kill them anyway.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

Right, we're gonna make examples of them. Like, yeah. It's it is it is we are in this world that is so limited on other resources too, and we'll talk about the bone ships, but the world is consume, it's constantly consuming itself. Yeah. Like the Hundred Isles is going for the Gaunt Isles children, and vice versa, because they have this horrific relationship to their gods, thinking this is the way, this is this is the way, the sacrifice of children is the way for us to honor the hag and light these ships. It's gross and really challenging. Yeah. And Mies is like, enough is enough. Enough is enough. We shouldn't be doing this to ourselves, we shouldn't be doing this to the Gaunt Isles, and that is part of the plot being driven forward.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

And we find out that that is part of why she has been sentenced to a black ship because she was trying to do something about it. Right.

SPEAKER_01 17:37

Okay, everybody take a collective deep breath. Okay, we're gonna move on from that.

SPEAKER_02 17:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

Let's move into um kind of the the the mythological creatures that we have here. I love it. Okay. This is the care the character creature that I wanted to talk about when we talk about characters, but I put them here instead. I and I will say I did love. I did love sassy.

SPEAKER_02 18:02

I'm gonna say it as galamey. I was going with or goume. I was going with uh Guillaume. Okay, she can speak French. I'm going galamey. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna follow your lead on the galamey. You're probably right. I don't I mean, I have no idea. It doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

This thing is a bird-like humanoid creature that can control the wind. It is creepy and fascinating, and the one that is on Jordan's ship and Mises' ship, um, is incredibly sassy. And I love it. He is bratty, but he is also so powerful.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

I I loved this character. I did too. So it's funny because they like they as a species are very generally subservient. And we find out that it's because of the way that they are trained from from birth. And we find out why, uh why theirs is so much more powerful. Um, so they were born, uh, their lore is that they were born of the last egg of Scareth the Stormbird, and this made them precious. Um but they are blind, which you would it's presented as if that they just are. Right. And then you find out that when they're hatched, their eyes are removed.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

The listen, we said it was a complex, it is also a violent one. It is very violent.

SPEAKER_02 19:45

It so they they blind them, and this is kind of the way that it's kind of like putting blinders on a horse for when you're horse racing. They they do this and then they cover their face in these bright, beautiful leaf masks. Which I kind of was getting um plague doctor mask vibes.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

Yeah, because it's it they are described as having a beak, like they're bird-like, they're kind of what I picture as like an extra large vulture, um, you know, yeah, that has yeah, that has a nice pretty leaf mask.

SPEAKER_02 20:18

But what we find we come to find out that ours does not have his eyes removed. He has his eyes, he still has his eyes, he can see, and so he can see. And I'm I'm assuming that that's why he is so much more powerful. Because I hope like it's part of it. I mean, yeah. But he refuses to do anything, anything at all until they actually try to build a relationship with him instead of treating him like a thing.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

Like a thing. Right. They have uh Mies kind of tells Joran, like, go see what he wants. And Joran's like, what do you mean, what do you what he wants? Like, they don't want anything, they work for us. And she's like, no, no, like go form a relationship with this, with this ship is gonna be different. Bird, we'll say. Um, and we learn something. Yeah, we learn that this guy is or this thing is, he is very lonely. Um he tells us his backstory and like how he when he hatched and what happened to him, and and I don't know, it's just so it's heartbreaking. But anyway, so this this creature as a species, it requires um, it has to recharge its magic at what they call a wind spire. And the windspires are on land. And we learn that our galamey, or however Ash pronounced it with her nice little French here, hadn't visited a wind spire in months, and yet he was still very able to be incredibly powerful. And if they don't visit these wind spires, they get windsick, um, which is when their magic is depleted. And we we witness that, and what happens um kind of just to be teetering on death here and and Jorn really taking up responsibility to care for. This creature in that moment and develop relationship with him.

SPEAKER_02 22:04

Yeah, the the dedication that he shows when the the Galame, the Guyam, whatever he is, is Guillam. Um by all accounts, the the Guyam appears dead. Completely. Like no breath, not not eating, not do just like basically in a coma. And so he puts food, like pours food in its mouth and massages its neck so that it won't choke and it'll like take the food and it gives it water. Um and something that becomes important-ish later on, he accidentally because the the teeth are very, very like it's a beak full. It's a beak full of really, really sharp teeth.

SPEAKER_01 22:51

And they also have talons and rows of teeth. Talons and claws and ugh.

SPEAKER_02 22:57

This is kind of pardon my language, this is a badass bird, okay? Yeah. So he accidentally, like while feeding him, cuts himself, and so like some of his blood gets into the the Guyam's mouth.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

That becomes important. Very important. Uh there's also a hinted at relationship between the the Guyam and the Arachusian, which we'll talk about in a second, because the Guillaume keeps calling it his sea scither, and Sither is sister here. And they seem to communicate, and this hints at something mythological or perhaps like they are both of the natural world here. And so is this more about the ecological connections between species of this world? It's just really interesting, again, kind of hinted at in this book, and I'm sure will be explored further. But the the Guillam and the Iraqesian communicate, yeah, which is really nice.

SPEAKER_02 23:52

Yeah, and it's so sweet because like when the Archesian uh is like looking in just the the Guyam's window, and they're just like they're like he Joran moves the Guyam's neck so that his like his he's facing out the window, and I can just imagine his little hidden eyes looking into the Archea Archesian's eyes. It's just sweet.

SPEAKER_01 24:16

But what's not sweet here uh are the the creatures that live in the depths. Um, we have some very graphic depictions of dangerous creatures like beak worms, which are gross teethed water worms. I just imagined uh like the sandworm. That's exactly it from Dune, but in the water. Um or long thresh, which are a type of like fish that again are just looking for bodies to eat, essentially.

SPEAKER_02 24:45

I I imagined like a barracuda or a like a strawfish, but just like yeah, massive and lots and again, lots and lots of teeth.

SPEAKER_01 24:54

They like describing teeth in this.

SPEAKER_02 24:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

And then that brings us to our final fantastical mythological creature here. Um, and and central to this story is the Arachisian. Uh, this is the dragon upon which this world teeters, right? Like they have built their ships out of dragon bones. And this is unlike any dragon that I've ever read before. It is not tameable, it's not ridable, it is not a symbol of like power and dominance, it's not hoarding gold, but it's it's it feels so much more like alien and strange and distinctly other.

SPEAKER_02 25:33

It it also like it doesn't seem aggressive.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

No.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

The only time we see it act in it with any kind of aggression is when it has been attacked. Yeah. And like, so it's like it seems like it's a fairly peaceful creature, just like it's just swimming its way, just trying to I'm just an animal in the world.

SPEAKER_01 25:53

I'm not I'm not doing anything until you provoke me, but it is impossibly large. Like this is a Leviathan, like it is And I think that's a thing.

SPEAKER_02 26:03

I think that is a better descriptor. Yeah, like for sure than dragon. Yeah, just because like it's a I mean a water dragon, okay. Like those are that's real, but like Leviathan feels so much more mythical and accurate and giant. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

And that I think once we got a description of um this Arachisian, they're also called a Kishon. Like of the Kishon, it it gave me like a better sense of size of the ships, too. I was like, oh, like these ships are giant. But um, before we talk about the ships, the dragon is also able to color shift. It has branching horns and multiple eyes, it has fins and teeth the length of men. Um and this its species has been extinct for thousands of years. And this is again back to that central thesis of this book of the world is consuming itself. So the Hundred Isles and the Gaunt Isles are fighting not only over your taking our kids, but we want your ships because our ships are made of bone, and we have no more bones because we have no more dragons, but we're running out of ships because we keep fighting, so we need to take your ships so we can have your bones, so you can build more ships and we can continue fighting. It's just like an Ouroboros war. Yeah. It's continuing to consume itself. Um, which brings us to the bone ships. And as mentioned, these are ships made of dragon bones. It I don't know, they're their their size is determined based on how many ribs are a part of the bone. Like, oh, that's a five-ribber, and uh which I loved because it's part of the world building, like it's it's in the language, it's not like I just I thought that was really great.

SPEAKER_02 27:45

Agreed. Um, and when when they need to replace things, obviously they cannibalize other ships from enemies and things, but also they use um uh varisk, which is a plant, and uh oh, what was the one with the G?

SPEAKER_01 28:05

I can't remember it.

SPEAKER_02 28:06

I cannot either. Um, Gyon. Gion. I think gion. Gion. So it's like leaves and bark and like stems of these plants, which are very, very versatile in this world.

SPEAKER_01 28:19

They do everything with it. They yeah, they it's their clothing, it's their sh their canoes, it's yeah, they eat it, it's yeah, they do everything.

SPEAKER_02 28:27

But it's obviously not as durable as the bone. So like they can use it in conjunction with the bone, but if they want to do anything more than like fish outside of a bay, they need the bone to support.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

We need the bones. We've talked a little bit about the difference between our white bone ships being fleet and they have those um blessed corpse lights, and our black bone ships being prison ships, where you can't escape it or uh escape your rank, but you can change your relationship to the ship and to your rank. And I think that's what Mies is just really trying to do and galvanize this crew around um around their plot point here of keeping the Iraqisians safe and ideally ending this ending this uh nonsense war, this endless war. But she's giving them a sense of dignity through that process as well.

SPEAKER_02 29:19

Yeah. She is an a truly like uh inspiring speaker and just character to her crew for sure. She seemingly very easily rallies, like she just commands presence and therefore commands her crew. Um but she does also respect her crew, like she expects respect, she also gives it and she allows them dignity, which most people do not feel or have on the blackbone chips.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

Yep. Yep, yep, yep. We've talked about this part too, where language is part of the world building. And I think that for me was initially something really challenging about getting into the world and made it feel really intricate and like, oh god, like who are you? What are you doing now? What is what is the spine? What what is the wing of a ship? Like everything is revolving around language for the dragon or for their religion. So you have the shipwife being your captain, your deck keeper is your first mate, and even the terms of like a ship's anatomy are based on the dragon. So a mast becomes the spine, a the sails become the wings of the ship. Um you have the beak of the ship. Like it's just so embedded in their language. I I liked that even if it was challenging to like catch up, but thank God for the glossary. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:48

So you had beak and rump for like prow and back, back. I don't remember. And then you had, I couldn't determine, I couldn't determine if lands like there's landside and seaside, and I couldn't determine which one was starboard and which was port. But I mean, oh, I guess starboard would be seaside. Yeah, and now that I say it out loud. That makes now that I've said it out loud, I'm like, oh yeah, that's obvious.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

It's a light bulb moment.

SPEAKER_02 31:13

It is a light bulb moment. Um but it is like I I think you texted me at one point and you were like, I have now realized that I have absolutely no idea how ships are made. No or what like, and I realized that I actually have a deeper knowledge than I and I expected. Yeah. Like, oh yeah, I know that. And I was like, okay, yeah, that make that all make sense. And but I mean, I'm in again, not knowledgeable by a long slide, but uh I just was like, oh, okay, like this, it made sense that it was something different but something familiar. Yep. Again, very well done.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

Yep. And in the in the acknowledgments in the back, um Barker even talks about like I had to sacrifice a lot of like shipbuilding knowledge for the sake of story. So I hope I still did it justice. And in my mind, I'm like, that was that was with sacrifice. Like I feel like I learned so much about how, well, how ships are built of quishan bone, but maybe not real ships. But it was really, I thought it was really helpful. Um, because we had read, you know, in Wraith Beneath the Tides about their ship, but didn't get so much detail like we did here in the bone ships about the the anatomy of a ship.

SPEAKER_02 32:23

Yeah. I think uh again, I think that was one of the things that was really well done because it also was very natural to the story. It was we're getting the information as the things are being used or being repaired or being assessed, and it all just worked in the world.

SPEAKER_01 32:39

Yep. What else worked in the world? Um, are all of these sensory details? Like you said at the beginning, like you could acknowledge, oh, that's a really good sensory detail, even if it didn't pull you in. Yeah. Um, so I pulled some of them out here and I'm wondering if you have any more. But a lot of them are smell related. I noticed in my notes. Yes. Like the scent of fish filled his nose and worked its way into his stomach, awakening the burgeoning nausea. Like, great. Cool. Thank you for that. Yeah. Love that. It was not the smell of death that drifted across the bay from the black ship, but the stink of life. Carefree, chaotic, and unconcerned.

SPEAKER_02 33:18

Such a great, like, yeah, a great uh like dichotomy to what the black ships represent. Um, I so I you have two in here that I did put in because they were, and because they were like some of the few that were not smell related. I loved that the water laughed along the sides of the ship. I absolutely understand that sound, and I thought that was beautiful. Like, and again, we've talked in previous episodes about like personification. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:50

And I thought that was just and so simple, right? But so perfectly descriptive.

SPEAKER_02 33:58

Yes, it was beautiful, yeah. And then lost in the hiss of the waves on the beach, eaten up by the sea as everything was destined to be. Oof. So, like again, there's so much good about this book. Please don't let it not being for me stop you from giving it a shot if this kind of thing is is more your jam, because like it it is a beautifully written book.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

I have recommended it to people already, especially those I know that read high fantasy. Um, there's another quote here about the the heat below deck, and it says the heat down here was a different set, more oppressive, more solid. It had substance. Where the heat above was dry and stark, this was moist and enveloping. It sucked you and stole your breath. And we are on the that we're recording just on the brink of summer getting started here in the southeast. And I know that this moist, enveloping heat is coming and will steal my breath.

SPEAKER_02 34:54

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 34:55

And I will hate it.

SPEAKER_02 34:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:57

We're so close. I hate it. Um, we're also really close to the end of this episode. So crazy how that works. So before we go, let's talk about our portal moments where we felt the story was the biggest or where we were the most immersed, um, where the world felt the realest. So, do you want to go first?

SPEAKER_02 35:17

Sure. Okay. Um, so I I was torn between two moments. Um obviously, I acknowledged earlier there there were some hard moments for me in this book regarding the like the the first burn. And uh that was a really challenging moment was when they're like taking this baby from the mother. And I like emotionally, that was a very challenging moment. And I I won't go into it too much more than that, other than that was rough. Other than trigger warning, other than trigger warning. Yeah. Um but where I felt more positively immersed in the world, when they are on the like the little island trying to take the tower from um the raiders and like the Guyams at the wind spire, and they have found this like cave system. Walking into that cave, if you don't know, Tennessee has the w uh largest network of caves in the entire country. Uh-huh. Um and uh they're just they're everywhere, and I have been into many in in this area.

SPEAKER_01 36:27

Um and the both been into many of them and in too many caves.

SPEAKER_02 36:33

That's that's also true. That is also true. Um, but the the stark difference of like the humid, like salty, briny air, and then stepping into like out of the sunlight and into the dark, damp cave. Like the smells are different and the sounds are different, and that temperature difference, like that you can go from that hot, sticky, humid to this cool, damp. It's so good. Yeah. Like the that just the way that he describes that, and then just that that stark transition is really, really good. And I loved it.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

That whole battle scene is so good. So good. There's a character here who has um some past trauma with fire, and that battle at the at that tower includes some fire, and you see kind of like a traumatic flashback from a character who I arguably really love and am rooting for. Um, man, it was so good. Yeah, so good.

SPEAKER_02 37:32

And the way they handle that trauma, too. Yeah. Beautifully done.

SPEAKER_01 37:36

Uh, it's so funny because that character's name is Ferris, and Ferris is actually part of my portal moment too. Um and mine is our first sighting of the Keyshawn, of the Arachisian, of the dragon. Ferris is up on the mass, like in the what do you call that? The bird's nest? The bird's nest, thank you. Crow's nest. I should know that.

SPEAKER_02 37:59

Uh birds within.

SPEAKER_01 38:00

Yep. Well, also, and yes. Ferris is up there because Ferris has really good eyes and is keeping a lookout for this dragon that they have been um told to escort from the southern seas to the northern seas. And Ferris calls out from the crow's nest, Keishon rising, and it's written in all caps, and my heart leapt. I was like, oh, it's here, it's finally here. And this is just like the scale of this thing and the beauty of it and the sense of awe that everybody has. This is a creature that has been extinct for centuries. They haven't seen it, and now they've been told, you're on this black ship, you cannot deny my leadership. We have to go escort this Arachisian from here to there and keep it safe. And they're like, that's a joke. Like, we're not seeing any dragon. That's you're making it up. And then to see it. Oh my gosh, like the it's just incredible. And in that moment, then um, the this is where we see the dragon kind of help them in a battle, which is also very good. But the quote I pulled out here was, and it rose, and it rose, and the ocean split above it, rolling off of it like layers of dead skin to reveal something new and amazing. Because that is the feeling I had in that moment of like, holy shit, it's here. And I just, oh, y'all. I as soon as Ash finished the book, I texted her in all caps, just Keishon rising. And my husband will attest that I just, it's like a vocal stem. I just keep saying it because I just keep thinking about that moment of that payoff for this crew and for the plot and for the world and like what this means. Anyway, okay. I'm waxing poetic about a dragon. I mean, understood.

SPEAKER_02 39:52

Shocking. I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_01 39:53

Okay, before we wrap anything else.

SPEAKER_02 39:56

No, I think we we've done this one justice.

SPEAKER_01 39:58

Awesome. Well, that is a wrap on Worlds Within where story becomes space. Before we go, let's give the bone ships our immersion rating of one to ten portals.

SPEAKER_02 40:08

Okay, so this is hard because at I was That's what she said. But um I'm gonna give it a seven out of ten. That's higher than I thought you would give it. And and here's why the reasons I didn't like it were on like vibes, you know, like I I just couldn't, I I don't know, I I can't even quantify why I didn't like it and why I struggled with it. It's just not for me. And that's okay. But the sensory storytelling was so good and the world building was so good. And so, like, while I wasn't transported, I think that from the the the point of this podcast and the thesis of this podcast, it is a very good book. So I'm gonna I'm gonna go with a seven out of ten, just because it is very good.

SPEAKER_01 40:58

I'm proud of you.

SPEAKER_02 40:59

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

I'm doing eight out of ten. I really liked this world. It felt really contained, um, but not so contained that it was boring. It was quite intricate, quite complex. Like I said, it did take me a while to catch up, um, but the payoff was was more than worth it for me. It is just an epic seafaring fantasy, and I am excited to keep reading.

SPEAKER_02 41:21

I think this people who like um like Wheel of Time and stuff like that, this this is kind of more your jam. For sure. I think that you would really like this.

SPEAKER_01 41:30

So for sure. Well, thank you for listening to us between the creaks and moans of the bone ships. May we all be as brave and competent as Lucky Me's and as elusive and awesome as the Iraqesian. Um we had a difference of opinions on this one, but that's okay. But let's see if that continues in our next episode.

SPEAKER_02 41:50

Well, up next, we are journeying to Tress of the Emerald Sea by Brandon Sanderson. One of the reviews said it reminded them of The Princess Bride, which is arguably one of both of our favorite movies. So be ready for a very different type of holy guacamole. Pack up the cooler, but leave out the chairs. We'll be back with another Seabound episode very, very soon. Until then, follow along on Instagram and TikTok and tell us where did you feel this story became space. Bye. Thanks again for joining us for another episode of Worlds Within, where story becomes space. Follow us on Instagram and TikTok at World Within Pod for more episodes, sensory guides to your favorite books, and more.

SPEAKER_01 42:32

And don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast streaming platform. Bye.