How Christian Kindness Saved A Pagan Ritual: Gudrid and the Spae-Queen. S:2,E:5

In this episode Kim and Sarah tell the story of Gudrid's first winter in Greenland. After a shipwreck that killed many of her loved ones, Gudrid winds up on a remote farm on the coast of Greenland. This escape from her old life in Iceland ends up delivering Gudrid face to face with a Pagan Sorceress in need of help.  Join us as we unravel a few threads while we continue to weave the story of Gudrid the Well Traveled. Enjoy!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Now, how's your picture? How's your thing? Better. Okay. Okay. Alright. So we're gonna talk about some fun things today, I think. Interesting stuff. Um we did try to record this one time before, so again, if I say, Did I say this already? or whatever. Even though I do that, I do that a lot even when we haven't recorded it before. So anyway, if we say, maybe I said this last time or something like that, then that's what's happening there. So that's okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 0:39

Okay, so we are back with Gudrid. We spoke, we had an interlude with to explain and set a foundation for the Christianity, um, paganism, and that whole layout. And when we last left Gudrid, um, she was spending the winter at her father's house because she did not accept the proposal to Einar, we believe. Then we see her father hold a his appointed banquet um with all his friends and family, and he is into shock and awe because he's like, not only am I insulted that Orm and my family friends thought this would be a good idea for me to, you know, marry my daughter, Gudrid, to Einar for money purposes, but I actually have to leave now. I'm so dishonored. He stands up and says, I'm going to actually leave. And so he does. And the next time, the first time we saw Gudrid, we saw her in a doorway at Orm's house. And the next time we see actually see Gudrid in the sagas is on the prow of a ship that's being shipwrecked. And what has happened is um Gudrid's father has built a ship, has talked his 35 or so of his friends into resettling in Greenland. They're going to go where Eric the Red has set up a settlement. And as we know, um, as we'll get into, um it's an open boat, and it's probably a knar, which is a big flat-bottom, big boat meant to carry cargo and people, but it's not comfortable, and they actually take off right before summer, and it takes them till the beginning of next autumn, correct, to get to Greenland. So in some sagas, it has them kind of getting lost, and it takes them a while. Well, we meet next week, Udrid on the prow of this ship, kind of shipwrecked in Greenland. There's different stories about who rescues them or not, but she and her father have left Iceland. Orm and and his wife are with them, several other people are with them, and what happens on the ship, as we discussed, was half of the people don't make it that they started with out within Iceland. So we can assume that they're either Gudrid is seeing most certainly Orne and her foster mother die. Um they just don't survive the passage. So now we have Gudrid, who has just traveled. We've all this buildup of our well-traveled woman. She has just traveled. She's a young or an older teenager. She's on the ship, she survived this voyage. They probably have the bodies of their loved ones, if not thrown into the ocean. They have them with them so they can perform a burial for them. Um and she survives with her life. Her father survives, several other people. And they reach Greenland, but but the most the saga that makes the most sense has them not go straight to Eric the Red's um property. It has them, because of this shipwreck, um end up on another man's settlement in Greenland. And as is the custom, since it's almost winter, the man is almost obligated to keep them there over winter, give them safe harbor. And this is where we enter into um we get a lot of information about Gudrid in this one. And uh um, we're just gonna dig right into it. So we see her entering the shores of Greenland, and she's going about to have a an amazing experience that kind of defines her mission in life almost and who she is. So on that note, where what where do you want to dig into this story first?

SPEAKER_00 5:16

Well, as you were talking, I was just writing down things that I that grabbed me in this story, in that part of it. Um first was the feast that her dad had to give, right? And in what we know about feasts, it would have been the spring feast or the April feast, which would have been a gathering of um, it would have been a sm a mini thing, right? A mini thing, which is a thing is uh community leaders, noble people gathering together in the spring to kind of discuss local issues, changes to laws, sentencing criminals on a local level. And then one of the important things they do at this spring feast, who is thrown by the big man in charge. So the fact that he's hosting this feast tells you kind of his clout in that community that he's in. Gudrid's father. Yeah, Gudrid's father. Um and then in that feast is an important time because it's who they it's when they assign the people that will go to the all thing, which is the September feast, the autumn feast. And that's everybody, that's all of the Iceland things come together for the all thing. And um for him to announce that A, he's not gonna go to that all thing to represent them, and B, I'm leaving, would have been a really big deal, you know. Um and there's some other points I thought of in that that with him and his financial situation, he was a really close, tight buddy with Eric the Red, who at this time had was being outlawed and exiled. Um, and so the my curiosity is did his departure have something to do with that? Or I mean, Eric the Red had already gone to Greenland with his family by this time and was established enough to have a destination that Gudred's dad thought they were they were aiming for, right? When they left. They didn't make it, like you said, they got shipwrecked and ended up at this other guy's farm but for the winter. But he was not there was some local fighting going on. And the the guy that Eric the Red had made mad and made upset was a pretty big leader in that community. It was Thorkel, T-H-O-R-K-E-L. And so that means Beguderd's dad, Torbjorn, uh, would have not would have been in trouble with that guy, too. So he probably saw no future financially and no real future socially or at that point too. So he made that announcement. I thought that was interesting. What an important it wasn't just a Sunday dinner that he announced it, it was at their community gathering important feast.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

That is interesting.

SPEAKER_03 8:33

In the sagas, sometimes they'll move you forward um pretty abruptly. And so it feels sometimes like, oh, now he's not about the proposal and now he's leaving. But obviously, there's more behind that and more preparation had to be made for that. Um in the saga it says, at the banquet, Thorborn called for silence. So he's definitely the boss of this. And he said, Here have I passed a goodly lifetime and have experienced the goodwill of men toward me and their affection. And he thinks our relations together have been pleasant, but now I begin to find myself in straightened circumstances. Although my estate has hitherto been accounted a respectful one. Then he, so that kind of speaks to some underlying amongst his men, he's a great man.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

But there's this other group of even greater men, I think. Thorkel is legendary, and people, even in Iceland now, will trace their lineage back to this Thorkel guy. I'm pretty sure. So they crossed the wrong guy then. He crossed the wrong guy because Eric the Red crossed the wrong. He's guilt by association, I think.

SPEAKER_03 9:49

So it's almost like Trumpian in a way that he's got himself into a situation and he's gonna announce like it's my idea to leave. You know?

SPEAKER_00 10:02

Right.

SPEAKER_03 10:03

Um but he so he's standing there and he says that, and then the next sentence is his decision. Now will I rather abandon my farm ring than lose my honor, and rather leave the country than bring disgrace upon my family. Wherefore I have now concluded to put that promise to the test, which my friend Eric the Red made. It is my present design to go to Greenland this summer, if matters fare as I wish. And the saga continues, the folk were greatly astonished at this plan of Thorborn's, for he was blessed with many friends, but they weren't convinced that he was so firmly fixed in his purpose that they it would do them no good to dissuade him from it. So Thorborn sells his lands, buys a ship, and thirty persons joined him in the voyage. Among those were Orm and his wife Haldis and other of Thorborn's friends who would not part from him. And then they put to sea. So it says when they set sail, the weather was favorable, but then it became a very tedious journey. And then illness appeared among their people. Orm and Haldis died in half their company.

SPEAKER_00 11:12

Yeah. And that's the other thing I wrote down, too, is that um there's a reference in one of the sagas to how they handled their dead bodies at this time. And it was just a really quick reference, but I it caught my attention because it was, I think it's later on when Gudrud is married to Thornstein, Eric the Red's son, and he's dying. Spoiler alert. But maybe it's Thorvald. But some one of the Eric the Red's sons who mother's very Christian, father's very pagan, refers to the fact that they haven't been burying their dead properly in this consecrated ground. And I wonder if this boat, this journey with Gudrid and her dad and Orm, and they there's people, we know people are dying because they tell us at Orm. But we also think maybe, we hope maybe some boats turned around and went back, but there's no proof of that, or you know, there's no saga that really talks about anybody that came back, which Iceland's pretty thorough with its sagas that I know of. Um so I wonder what they would have done with these bodies, because I almost feel like they weren't keeping them to put them in consecrated ground at this point, but maybe they were because her dad is so hardcore Christian. I just think it's a it's a side thing, but I'm just really interested in if they buried them at sea, if they kept them. I know they did that a lot. They kept bodies and that to be so they could take them back to Iceland to hot sacred ground.

SPEAKER_03 12:54

As a pagan practice, it does seem as though and and sometimes they bury them in situ or where where the death happened, but it almost seems like they bring them back quite often.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

Pagan would be they would burn them. Christian would be that they bury them, and so, but in consecrated ground. So then I mean, I just then I go and like, was this so Eric the Red's wife, Tort Hill, was the first one to have a Christian church in Greenland. Did they know they could bury them? I don't know. It's just a side note. I mean, it's a real side note, but it was it's just so sad to think of Gudrid with these bodies and the conflict the sad conflict of what do we do with these bodies? Do we bury them in a Christian burial? You kind of had to decide someone's fate, literally. Yeah. Yeah. Based on what you thought they were believing. So to identify yourself as a Christian or a pagan was a big deal, so you could get buried the right way, right? That's a huge responsibility.

SPEAKER_03 14:04

Right. That's like maybe claim making a claim because they were straddling this, this even in Iceland in this a thousand, they were trying to combine the Christianity that's beginning and the pagan traditional Norse pack practices of burial and death, and how do you live with your you know, household magic, but still Christian. Right. And in one of these sagas, what what was interesting to me is they talk about this consecrated ground and how the bodies in Greenland hadn't been buried in that. So what sometimes they would do is bury poles, um, stick a pull up through the heart of the the person because they know it's uh not consecrated ground. So they stick a pull through the heart of that buried person so that when the clergy comes, they can pull that poor that pull out and pour holy water in to, you know, consecrate the grounds. So it seems like they are a little unsettled. Yeah. You know, and an unsettled dead, unsettled with your dead is not a happy place to be.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

It's a scary place to be for them at that time.

SPEAKER_03 15:27

Because they'll visit you and they'll they'll tell you things, and um so it is interesting. So then you you wonder, okay, well, where does Gudrid stand with this Christianity? If Haldas was, you know, her her guide or her flag um as far as her Celtic or pagan traditions went, if she learned at her foot, but her father was kind of the Christianity thing. She really is straddling both sides.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

Yeah. And we'll see in the story we're gonna get into now how she is still, she's so level-headed, she's not emotional on. She makes a pretty non-emotional, very pragmatic decision in the minute about straddling those two worlds and how she does it, basically. She's in a very black and white situation, which we can get into if we want. Those are just oh, and the other thing that I wrote down and then is that there are some sagas, and we've touched on this, that will say that this shipwreck happened um probably with her and her dad and the group, but they notably point out so she was with her first husband named Tor here, T-H-O-R-I-R. Is that correct? Um, so that's where you will hear sometimes how many marriages she has. And sometimes they'll refer to this firm that she was married actually three times to this first guy who was a Norse man, um, and that it was she was shipwrecked with them. So that's one of the sagas that tell it that way. So yeah, kind of muddies the water a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 17:17

Yeah, it's okay, it's okay. So we try to find out, try to take it down to its barest thread, which is we know Gudred arrived in a ship with her father. We know they shipwrecked and landed in Greenland with um deaths. And then you'll see there's debate on who rescued the ship. Some say it's Erickson as a Christian, you know, saving these group of Christian pilgrims. Um, well, that's obviously cloaked in some 11th century, you know, the the descendants who are translating these things. But um and uh oh go ahead. No, no, I'm done.

SPEAKER_00 18:01

Well, and they the way they tell that Leaf story, I told this last time, but the way the saga tells the way that Leaf rescued her group, they were stranded on a rock and he sailed in in such a cool way as to kind of clip to the, you know, clip past them, kind of come in and then check out the people and then zoom away again and just um kind of showing, like you're saying, it's showing his not only his skills as a sailor, but then he at h as a hero, because he's called luck leaf the lucky from then on, and that's what they attribute his because he rescued these people, which would have been Gudrid and her group. And if he had rescued them, they wouldn't have spent the winter or he would have spent the winter with them, but he's not mentioned in this at all, and he would have been mentioned in this. So it I we are thinking he probably wasn't the one that rescued them. That was a different thing. I think it was later. Yeah, I think it was a different group of people. Yeah. Yeah. There is another shipwreck that Gudrud is in later. Um, but so yeah, it just like you said, it muddies the water, but it's not hugely important. They get to Greenland, they don't get all the way to Leaf to Eric's house, and they have to spend the winter with a man who is pagan, a farmer who is pagan. And he's not just a farmer, it's not just this one little farm huddled away. It's um and it's called in Hoffs. It's on the tip of throat down.

SPEAKER_03 19:43

Okay, here we go. Harry also.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 19:50

It's Thorkel. At Harry Alfsenis, that's his land, lived a man named Thorkle. He was a man of ability and an excellent husbandman. He received Dorborn and all his ship's company and entertained them well during the winter.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

Yep. So he's a wealthy guy and Greenland at this point. So we know Eric went there and set up his community. Um, and this is, we find out from this next part of the story, too. It's settled enough where people can travel from farm to farm. They have a social network, they have an organized group. It's not just these, you know, cave dwellers in Greenland that are they are having a hard time. They're starving right now. It's kind of a famine time. It's a lean, has been a lean summer and it was a lean winter.

SPEAKER_03 20:40

And they were making their as a Greenlander, um, they were producing trade items. So they would go up to the north of Greenland in these, instead of raiding groups, it seems like they'd go up in the summer to uh get walrus, walrus tusks, walrus skins, which were highly valued um in the market. And as the last few, you know, we know that there's some climate stuff going on that's kind of, you know, things there's having droughts and things like that that um are making life a little tricky for these settlers in Greenland. And not only that, but you know, when your whole tribe goes up to the north, half of them were not returning.

SPEAKER_01 21:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:28

So they're slowly losing their people to this stuff. And as we see, Greenland will limp along a little bit, but eventually they're gonna have to leave it. So at this point in time, when Gudrid lands, there's a starvation going on, there's drought, there's some lean times. So the fact that this Thorkel is willing to take in this group of people, I mean, that's his honorable obligation, but he's got the we find out he's a They're all a little worried about what's happening.

SPEAKER_00 22:04

I wonder if um I wonder if l if Eric the Red had this set up for them. Well, if they were shipwrecked, but then they made it I don't know. I almost feel like Eric maybe knew they were there and this guy I don't know. That's just me.

SPEAKER_03 22:20

I'm like some recompense, or he knew Eric would take care of them.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

Yeah, or yeah, he knew this guy could handle this many people coming in. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, so the farmer that they land is called Torburn, right? Or is that what you said? Or did you say Thorkle? Torquel. Torkoal. Okay. Torkoal. Isn't that interesting? Because that's Thorkle with two. This one has two L's. They leave because of the Thorkle from the other, from Iceland, right? That's the Yeah, that's interesting. Well, they can't escape their fate then. No, from one Thorkle to the next. Okay, so they go, they land, they're this whole group, they're staying there this winter. We know Gudra's dad is very Christian. Um, and Gudrid was raised with her dad being Christian, but then also raised with her foster parents, who we we know are, if not fully Christian at this point, they definitely have pagan, Celtic, and maybe a little bit of Norse religious religiosity beliefs. And um, and then also I think just in living in Iceland herself, and again, if she was married first, somehow associated enough with a Norse group of people that that made it into one of the sagas, you know? Um she's well versed in both. And this is how we find it out from this part of the story. Do you want me to read this part or do you want to? Go ahead. Okay. I'm reading f I have two of versions of my saga. Okay. Um I don't know which one I like better. I'll just read this. So it was I'll just tell it. In the in the winter, so when everybody was kind of hunkered down on their farm, um, done hunting, done going up to get everybody's back from the hunts and everything, it was a custom it says, of this woman named Torberg. And she's called the little vulva. So a vulva, V-O-L-V-A. Um, she's also could be called little Sybil, according to one of the translations, um, is a magic woman, a prophetess, a sorceress. Um, I wrote down kind of to kind of get an idea of exactly what she was. She is a Savolva translated means wand wed, wed to a wand. So or a staff carrier or a cirrus. So she's someone that can see the future. They also had would have had somebody called a heater, H E I D R. And that kind of goes more into like the Freya, I think. A cedar.

SPEAKER_03 25:21

Um, I asked the question, what were the qualifications for becoming one of these? Oh, interesting. Okay. She appears here. There was a certain woman in the settlement whose name was Thorborg. She was a prophetess called Little Sybil. She had nine sisters, all of whom were prophets, prophetesses, but she was the only one left alive. And so I'm like, well, okay, how do you become one? It says the primary requirement was being film uh female. Um, many volvas were taught by their mothers or female elders. In the saga we're reading, the character Gudrid, they say, knows the necessary songs because her foster mother taught it to her. Most historical accounts describe valbas as elderly women. This age was associated with the age of life where women have moved beyond the duties of child rearing. Um, the practice of it involved entering deep trances and traveling between worlds. And so, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

So she was more like uh there's a word for it too, which um you can go into a deep trance and kind of there uh almost what's the I always forget astral project, kind of leave your body and go somewhere else. And there's you can do different ways to do it. It's interesting to find out how she did it. She actually harkens, calls spirits to her, and it's a group effort. She needs some people to help her do that to do the right kind of thing. There's a type of sorcery, Nordic sorcery called Galder, G-A-L-D-R, which is a high-pitched singing to attract spirits. And I'm wondering. So let me just read this part then. Okay, because we're referring to things that we haven't told people about yet. So um it was a custom of Torberg, the little Searis, in the wintertime to make a circuit, and people uh invited her to their houses. So you'd be like, okay, everybody on the 22nd, the sorceress is coming over. We got to get ready, we gotta clean, we gotta, we need this, this, this, this, this list. And then we're gonna ask her, you can ask her your questions. There's a gen, and I get the sense that there was a general community question that they wanted to know, which was when is this famine and these hard times gonna end? Then it seems like there were more personal, there was more personal one-on-one later on, too. So you would be, this would be a really big deal. You would you were gonna get you're if you're pagan, you're big religious, a prophetess, a sorceress to come to your home. And we know that these women are highly revered, and we can talk about burial burials that we find that are found later in a minute. But they invited their to their houses, especially those that had any curiosity about the season or desire to know their fate. Like I was saying, you had the general question, personal question. And because Thorkel, this farmer, was the chief Franklin around, he was the community leader of this group. He um he considered that it concerned him to know when the scarcity which overhung the settlement should cease. So, when are we gonna be done with this starvation and these hard times? He invited, therefore, the spay queen. So that's what this saga calls her a spay queen. And I looked that up. Do you have it? What a spay queen is? Um, it refers to her staff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:57

Um, they also call her the staff bearer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

So she she is a type of sorceress that would have a magic wand.

SPEAKER_03 29:07

Um you mentioned before, I loved kind of what you said about the staff that the vulva carries, and they're buried with them often. Yes. It's kind of an anchor in in a certain sense because she is going to travel spiritually between worlds and between past and future. And that doesn't that kind of resemble you know, symbolize she's she can anchor in any world.

SPEAKER_00 29:34

I've read some things that it's it is because uh they kind of described it where they like starts some will start spinning the rod like this and then kind of get into a trance, and then as they're traveling through times and space and this is the one thing they hold on to to kind of ground them that they can kind of bring back to them. So that it's used that way. Um, I know like if you ask people that won't use wands now in practices, it it's used to draw the circle or to point out different objects. I mean, it is a tool for work now, also. Um that's why I think it's exciting to see that this long ago it was such an important thing, too. And like you said, in burials, they find it. Um there's a very famous burial where there are two women found. Um I can't remember, I think it starts with an O, the site, but um she's she's it the burial is like a queen's burial, it's just elaborate. It's got horses and wagons, and and they find her wand, her staff, and it's beautiful and it's bronze at the top. And it's not this woman's because this is in Iceland, but over in Norway and Sweden, there's several different burial sites that prove what we're about to read isn't just a fantasy saga. They have found artifacts of her out this outfit we're gonna describe head to toe, beginning with the wand, um, which is just so cool. And it can be made out of brass, it can be made out of wood, it can be made out of iron, bronze. It's usually two to three feet long, it's for energy and protection. Um, one of the cool things that we like, especially, is sometimes a woman's wand would resemble the distaff, which was every woman had a distaff because it's how they are constantly making thread, and we will learn later in this in this culture, creating thread to create wool to create sails is like a nonstop job. Just constantly a constant job. So it's cool that they're blending in this woman's work, daily work, with also a woman's magical power. And it you're like you said, it was women that did this. There were some men and wizards that would do other things, but the real known sorceress, the real power and magic came from a woman, a crony woman, and a woman of age.

SPEAKER_03 32:18

A woman who has well traveled.

SPEAKER_00 32:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 32:21

Between the worlds of death and life.

SPEAKER_00 32:25

Very good.

SPEAKER_03 32:28

Okay, so we're gonna we're going to meet her. Um and it says just an interesting thing, it says for many so you've got the young uh women who are being trained. So so what I I kind of said, well, how d do they recognize something in the young girl, or is it a family, familial thing? And it says that um accounts suggest that certain strange behaviors or or maybe not strange but unique behaviors seem to show up in young children. So that they they can speak of spirits or they survive near death experiences. Something that marks them in that they're on this path to be this Cirus or Prophetess. And some say that, you know, the her wisdom and foresight would reveal destiny and fate. So it's a child that sometimes we say they have an old soul or um, you know, there's something that people recognize that's different about her beyond the household magic. And so once someone's marked with this innate talent, they would usually travel with their mentor or their Volva. Um who ca who usually traveled with an entourage of young girls who assisted in the rituals, effectively acting as apprentices. Um, they'd learn the herbal lore. Um so yeah, that's cool. Yeah. So yeah, so we'll see as we go forward. What what else is interesting to me about this is as we discuss today the detail that these sagas carry of this one um cedar ritual is very is valuable and so interesting. And the fact that Gudred's involved in this um you know, is really interesting.

SPEAKER_01 34:36

So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:38

So we're gonna and it survived the Christian rewriting several centuries later that they kept the detail in there, which shows you there was something even at their Christian rebirth, something embedded in them about this ceremony that was important.

SPEAKER_00 34:58

So anyway, yeah, because um, when you read all the sagas, the detail of this outfit that she's wearing is extremely unique to have it be so detailed. Um, and then again to have it be then scientifically proven, it is kind of nice. It does give me a little bit more comfort in the Christian rebirth of these or writing down of these orally passed down sagas, that there was importance given to certain things that we and there there is reliability there on a lot of it too. You'll read a lot of books that they'll just they'll tell you the saga or they'll or they'll tell you some kind of thing that historical, but then they'll blow it off because it was translated by Christians or it was the you know, it's a saga and there's no proof and blah blah blah. But because of this, and then the proof found, and again we'll have another situation of a saga that was blown off and then they found, you know, um gives this credit credibility, you know. We're not just talking magic and Marvel comic books here.

SPEAKER_03 36:14

So oh go ahead. In the saga of the Vinland accounting of this, it is so detailed, but even this, there's this a line in it that says, Well, Thorkel, um, he wanted to find out if what was upon them and if it would cease, but then he they describe it as the night's entertainment. So to me, that's the little guy in there. Like, this is just for entertainment purposes. There's no magic happening here.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

But yeah, anyway, so okay, so I'll keep going. Uh so it was um blah blah blah. So it was her custom to go spend the winter visiting one after another the farms that she had been invited to, which is interesting. They say that too. It's just she doesn't go to every farm, she has to be invited. And again, that goes some farms maybe were Christian or were leaning away from it. Um mostly by curious people curious to learn of their own future or what was in store for the coming year. Since Thorkel was leading, I'll I'll also point this out too. To have to re wait a whole year to find out revelation from the other side, whatever that is to you, is interesting. That would get frustrating if then Christianity came and said, No, you can. Okay, so anyway, so the other way to um since Thorkel was leading the farmer, people felt it was up to him to find out when the hard times which had been oppressing them had led up. Thorkel invited the Sears to visit, and preparations were made to entertain her well, as was the custom of the time when a woman of this type, and I highlighted that, was received. A high seat was set for her. And again, we talked about high seat doesn't necessarily mean elevation, it means it's the seat of honor. In this case, though, we do find out, and we and they did find in different art um artifacts that for these kind of rituals they were elevated higher. It was a platform kind of raised for it. Um complete with a cushion. It was stuffed with chicken feathers, just interesting. Probably like air or I don't know, white chicken feathers. Did you look into that? Why chicken feathers?

SPEAKER_03 38:29

I didn't look into the I looked into every other symbology. Why didn't either? But I didn't look into the chicken feather.

SPEAKER_00 38:35

Maybe that was the type of feather they had on hand easier. Um yeah. Maybe it's a translation, maybe it was more of a foul.

SPEAKER_03 38:45

I would think, well, I have um poultry feathers, which is the same thing. You'll have to look that up if anyone wants to know, because every other thing they mention has a reason. Symbology to it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

And when you're talking about sorcery or anything like this, every single ingredient has a purpose. So chicken feathers is interesting. Um, it's not an indigenous bird to anywhere. So that means it probably came from more of the tradition of Norway or Europe, you know. Yeah. So that's interesting. Um when she arrived one evening along with a man who had been sent to fetch her, and so she's escorted through these farms. You know, one farm will go get her from the other farm where she was doing work the day before or whatever. And here we get into her outfit. So she was wearing a blue mantle. Some translations will say black, but when you dig into it, that translation means blue based on the type of dye. Did you find that out too? Kind of.

SPEAKER_03 39:55

Yeah, she was clad in a dark blue cloak. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:00

With a strap, um, which was adorned, so her strap or her mantle was adorned with precious stones right down to the hem. Um, about her neck she wore a string of glass beads, and on her head a hood of black, or we'll say blue, lamb skin lined with white catskin. So, and I'll have an opinion on that in a minute. She bore a staff with a knob at the top adorned with brass, set with stones on top. About her waist, she had a linked charm belt with a large purse. A charm belt is interesting.

SPEAKER_04 40:39

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

With a large purse. In it, she kept the charms which she needed for her predictions. She wore calf skin boots lined with fur.

SPEAKER_03 40:48

And then I think in your translation, it talks about they'll had metal um latches upon her feet, shaggy calf skin shoes with long, tough latchets. Mm-hmm. Those are cool. So the there were large brass buttons.

SPEAKER_00 41:04

Yeah, super cool. Yeah, and large pewter knobs. So they're calling it pewter in this one on the ends. On her hand, she wore gloves of catskin, white and lined with fur. So again, they're really pointing out this white fur-lined hood and gloves. This translation's calling it catskin. I saw one that's calling an ermine, which I question that because that's such a precious fur that was really more important in the more medieval time. So I wonder if that's a translation, backwards translation. Um, and so this outfit is phenomenal. We've read about normal Viking attire, and it is, it's cool, it's beautiful. They had color, it was, you know, they did have the mantle and the beads and the brooches and things, but to have this described this way with the charm belt and the purse, you know, is saying we've found those items in graves now, archaeological findings kind of support this.

SPEAKER_03 42:07

So, and in this one, in this paragraph, you could spend forever researching, okay, the the significance of the dark blue cloak, um, the stones down to the hem, the glass beads around the neck, um, lining things with catskin, and her her touch wood or her girdle, her charm belt. They found those, and they're so interesting. Those are her tools of the trade kind of hanging from her.

SPEAKER_00 42:40

Yeah. And in these belts, in these actual digs, in these purses. The name of the the really famous site is Osberg, O-S-E-B-R-B-E-R-G, and it's where they found two possible sorceresses buried together, or some think it was a main sorceress and her protege or somebody um buried together. But in that they found in her purse. I can tell you what they found, they found white powder lead. So they're not sure what that was used for, if it was to blow into the fire or kind of a dust powdery something used in the ritual. Um toe rings. So they had rings on their toes. She shall have music wherever she goes. Oh. I don't know. Yes. Um, which is yeah, I did read something about that fairy tale, about that nursery rhyme run. Rings on her fingers, rings on her toes, she shall have music wherever she goes. And music supports her to these other words. Right. Yeah. It's a channeling tool. Um they found cannabis. Sativa L. That's literally. So they were chill and probably had to have a lot of food. That was probably a problem. They all got the munchies.

unknown 43:58

But

SPEAKER_00 44:00

That's what f that's why the feast is follows. Yeah. Oh yeah. I mean he's a chalk. But um it was either used for n um hallucinogenics or p healing too. Pain, they think. I mean this is just whatever. Henbane seeds, which when rubbed together can again create a hallucination. And animal bones for divination. And then they found spinning tools. They found sewing tools, which again is so cool. A very thin line, thin veil between sewing, weaving, knitting, creating, and magic. I think it's so cool.

SPEAKER_03 44:43

There's that thin line between healing, she can heal, or she can curse. So to entertain a seer like this who also has practical magic, um, you you can see in their preparations how careful they're gonna be because you're bringing in this person that could harbor good tidings or bad. And you can see them trying to placate her the whole time through this. You know, they're placing the seat carefully. They're they're part of the ritual too, you know, trying to work this good magic that they want to have.

SPEAKER_00 45:21

It's the very next line. It says, when she entered, everyone was supposed to offer her respectful greetings. And then she responded according to how the person appealed to her. So right away they're assessing each other's energy and behavior, and you know, it was a ritual right from the beginning.

SPEAKER_03 45:42

Yeah, she and and weren't you saying she even had Thorkel take her, he gave her a tour of his farm and she looked at each animal and she looked at each pen and she looked at each person in the room. Yeah. And she's kind of just Yep.

SPEAKER_00 46:02

So she he took her, he asked her to come survey his flock, his servants, and his buildings. And these people have been preparing for a long time because she had very specific things she wanted to eat before, and they were the hearts of all the animals that lived on the farm. So, um, and this kid's milk porridge, which you had found out something interesting about the bees. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:29

So I she said, this translation is I like, I like all of them, but um Thorkel took the Sybil by the hand and led her to the seat. He bade her run her eyes over man and beast and home. She had little to say concerning all these, so she's just silent. Yeah. Um the tables were brought forth in the evening, and it remains to be told what manner of food was prepared for the prophetess. And then they give you, if you want me to say this, they give you a list. A porridge with goats' beastings was made for her, and for meat there were dressed the hearts of every kind of beast which could be attained there. She had a brass spoon and a knife with the handle of a walrus tusk. Um so as I'm reading this, first of all, the first thing I read in the saga is Gudrid stuck on a shipwreck. Then she's taken to this guy's home. Then this woman is brought in in this array of, you know, we haven't seen that yet, you know, in the sagas. And then they're feeding her a porridge of goats' bee stings and meats of the heart of every beast. So And you looked up what that goats bee sting is, right? Yes. It's so because I'm like, they would not just mention that. So I I asked, what are goats bee stings in the pagan world? Um and so it the goat is a symbol of fertility, and they're central to save several pagan cosmology representing vitality and the general forces of the earth. Um the goat's porridge, if you look into it a little farther, it um has to be the c colostrum of a goat. So it's not just with the milk, it's with the colostrum that's formed before the milk comes. So it's right after the goat has given birth.

SPEAKER_01 48:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:33

And the colostrum famously is supposed to be the most um really important for a baby to to have. It's not I mean, it's not really um nutritional, but it gives them all sorts of the antibiotic antibodies, the immunity. Think about Thorkle and the women who were in charge of goat milking, they'd have to grab that stuff quick because it lasts maybe a day or two.

SPEAKER_00 49:03

So it's and lambs aren't born in the winter. So they either had to have a specific you, you, that would have just given birth, timed perfectly for her, or they had a way to preserve it. I don't know how.

SPEAKER_03 49:17

They say that there they had something called the Yule Goat, a surviving pagan.

SPEAKER_00 49:23

Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_03 49:24

The Yule goat represents the end of harvest and the return of the sun. Oh, so that would have been December time.

SPEAKER_00 49:30

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:31

That's cool. It represents hope, I guess.

unknown 49:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:35

And then I'm wondering, okay, so there's a porridge of this. I can see that that's symbolic, but what about goats, bee stings was made for her? The porridge of goats, bee stings, and bees are viewed as sacred messengers of the gods. A bee sting is rarely seen. I'm reading it. Do you care? Okay. This is fascinating. A bee sting is rarely seen as a random event by pagans. Instead, it's interpreted as a catalyst for change. A sting is often viewed as a shock to the system or spiritual wake-up call meant to pierce an individual's energy field. So she's her prophecy or her purpose there is to kind of be that sting, to to kind of um a wake-up call to the spirit. B sting also symbolized boundaries and lessons. It can symbolize the consequences of crossing spiritual boundaries or represent a painful but necessary lesson. And you think about Gudrid, who is he she's crossed physical boundaries, she's also crossing spiritual boundaries because we know she was raised in this hodgepodge of the pagan and Christianity. And it also is a divine intervention meant to serve as a sharp correction to re receive order um in the world.

SPEAKER_00 51:09

So it's cool because even when you re when you get into like really woo-woo things, start reading about like the ancient stuff and the mystics. Bees are hugely important. There's a whole podcast. One guy wrote a whole book about the importance of bees in magic or mysticism from Babylonian Egyptian times. So that here we are in Iceland, and it's still carried over that far. I think it's really cool. You know?

SPEAKER_03 51:40

Yeah. I mean, it's just and and the preparation um is all done to up in Norse tradition, the reference to a prophetess drinking bee stings. The fact that they've they know what to give her, they they have the preparations means it's pretty important. And the consumption of this specific meal was a prelude to the cedar ritual. So everyone's working, including her, hard to make sure this happens. After eating, um, the vulva would sit on a raised scaffold. Um, and then so this was important. So Thorkel knows what he's doing. Yeah. And we can assume that everyone else knows too.

SPEAKER_00 52:30

Yeah. And then um with her knife, so we had she has her brass spoons and her and it's a knife with an ivory shaft, or wall or you know, it's two halves clasp with bronze bands, and the point of which had been broken off. And just briefly we talked about that too. That when something was straddling both worlds, so in a lot of burial sites, you'll find swords that are bent, or distaffs that are broken, or things that have been physically altered so that they can be identified, A, that's no longer for use in this world, and B, it's now consecrated or ready for use in the next world. So they really, really, really point out in every translation of this saga that her, the tip of the knife was broken. But it was a really important part to include in this saga. And I think it's because she transcends both worlds and her tools also, right? So her knife. Yes. And swords were always bent or broken in some way. So for her little knife, even that was consecrated for use of uh more, I don't know, what's the word? Use in the other word side as well.

SPEAKER_03 53:51

So that's cool. One part that strikes me in this next part we'll talk about, which I guess we can get to that.

SPEAKER_00 53:59

Oh yeah, let's do that.

SPEAKER_03 54:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:01

Oh, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 54:01

Or do you want to?

SPEAKER_00 54:04

Okay. So she, yeah, they raise they so that night she observed everything, they had the meal, they all are very polite and greet her. Thorkle is very careful to make sure everybody's greeting her correctly. And then he tries to get the get move it along, and that's can you tell us what's going to happen? And she says, No, I need to sleep, and then I'll do it tomorrow. So that must have been like, oh, okay. That's how I think nervous, like, let's just get it done and get her get her on her way, maybe a little bit. But yeah. Or she was tired, she'd just come from another farm, you know. Yeah. So, anyways, they she slept and they didn't get to do it that night. So they had to do everything the next day.

SPEAKER_03 54:51

The following day this translation, if you don't care, it says Thorkel goes up to her after she's eaten and asks how she is pleased with the home and the character of the folk and how speedily she would be able, um, how speedily she would be likely to become aware of that concerning which he had questioned her, and the people would were anxious to know. And she said, Nope, I need to sleep on it.

SPEAKER_00 55:17

Yeah. She's our age. She's like, I just went from all these different farms, you know. I'm so yeah, protein porridge. I yeah. So it's a lot of work. Yeah. So the next day, she um, hi kitty. She they get to it, and people are again bringing her the things she needs. He's gonna lay right on my book. Okay. So I have to do it from my brain. So she um she's getting prepared. And so it's interesting. It's she's on a raised platform, she she's eaten the things, she's done the things with her body that she needs to do to prepare for this work. Shows that she's uh making an effort herself, like she's not a snake salesman or a scam or anything like that. Like this is a ritual, a religious important ritual, and to be respected and honored. And so one of the things she does is she needs, and like you said, normally these women would have traveled in an entourage where they could have set their little girls, like, okay, now get in a circle. We need to do certain things to invoke these spirits. And what she needs is a certain song or chant done in a certain way, um, where spirits invoking spirits, inviting certain spirits that will come and help her do her prophetess work.

SPEAKER_03 56:44

Which correct tells me um there's been a disruption in the system because normally she had nine sisters who would be doing she's had some losses. Yeah. Now she's a lone woman without an entourage. These girls that know the songs, that know how to help her, aid her in getting to this other get the spirits to come to her. And so there's a real sense of loss and disruption in the whole system.

SPEAKER_00 57:17

Yeah. I wonder how she did it at other farms. There must have been enough people at these other farms to be able to because it's it's she asks, she makes a little announcement like who is here that can help me sing the songs we need to sing, and no other women knows how. There's enough women that they can form a circle. So that says something, but there's not any of those women that know the song or the chant, which is purely done ritual.

SPEAKER_03 57:46

Symbolically speaks to the death of this, these pagan traditions speaks to the of women's magic and women's seeing, you know? Right.

SPEAKER_00 57:58

So there is one woman in the crowd who says, I know that, I know it. And it's Gudrid. And she kind of steps up and says, I was taught by my foster mother how to do these songs. And the this little sorceress later lady is like, Well, great, can you do it for me? And Gudrid is like, I'm a Christian. Um, so I'm not gonna do it, basically. And the sorceress says, Well, Thorkle will provide me with the things I need. So she kind of relays to Thorkell, you know, you need to be, I don't know, I don't think it was a I don't picture it as like a threat or anything like that, but um, so Gudrid on behalf of her host will do this chanty, digging, non-Christian thing.

SPEAKER_03 58:49

And you almost get the feeling that in and how she responds, she's trying to set this part of her self aside. Um, she doesn't think she can enter the Christian world this way.

SPEAKER_00 59:03

Yeah. Do you have the quote? My cat's laying on the.

SPEAKER_03 59:05

No, I can have the quote. So she's on the morrow when the day was far spent, so the the seer, the prophet has slept in, so they're all waiting. Such preparations were made as were necessary to enable her to accomplish her soothsaying. She bade them bring me the women in the group who knew the incantation which was required to work her spells, and which she called warlocks, which obviously she wouldn't have called them that translation, no.

SPEAKER_01 59:36

She didn't call them that.

SPEAKER_03 59:37

But such women were not to be found. So Thorkel, in his careful preparations, um hadn't thought of that he needed women. So thereupon a search was made throughout the house to see whether anyone knew this incantation. And then says Gudrid, although I am neither skilled in the black art nor a Sibyl, yet my foster mother Haldus taught me in Iceland that spell song, which she calls warlocks. So then Thorborg answered to her, then thou art wise in season. Which is interesting. I, Gudrid said, This is an incantation and ceremony of such a kind that I did not mean to lend it any aid, for that I am a Christian woman. So she she he she um are you there? Oh, there you are, you were frozen.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:29

Oh so I think the last thing I heard was black art.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:32

So she says, I'm not so obviously the seer says, You'll work in season, thou art wise for your age, basically. But then Gudrid kind of hedges and she said, This is an incantation and ceremony of such a kind that I do not mean to lend it any aid, for I am a Christian woman. Um, so we kind of see where Gudrid wants to, she's traveling to another season in her life or another part of her life. Um, and then the seer, the sorceress says, It might so be that thou couldst give thy help to the company here and still be no worse woman than before. However, I leave it with Thorkel to provide my needs. So, like you said, she throws it in his hands. Right. Thorkel urged Gudrid that she must needs comply with his wishes. So that's interesting. Then the woman then made a ring round about while Thorborg sat on the spell dais, which the high seat.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:37

Yeah. So mine says the women formed a warding ring around the platform raised for sorcery. Okay. With Thorbjrg, Thorbjrg perched atop it.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:49

Yeah. So we get to see, we know that Gudrid has been called a reckoning woman, a wise woman, a good woman. We didn't quite know yet that she was also skilled in the the black arts and incantations and um and that this this prophetess who had looked through everyone's soul basically the night before and all the animals on the farm, she um basically says thou art wise in season. So she could see her uh abilities, I think.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:26

Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:29

So goodra does it. So she does the chant, she does the song, depending on what version you're doing. She does the incantations to attract these spirits. And um and uh they say people, it's like a Trump thing. People said there had never heard such a fairer voice, you know, that she did such a beautiful job that um she was impressive, and now she has it all written in the saga for her. And the series thanked her for the chant. She said many spirits had been attracted who the who thought the chant fair to hear. That's cool, I think. Um though earlier they wished to turn their backs on us. So this is interesting. So here's the sorceress kind of keeping her call to action, keeping herself in business, I think, with it. She said many spirits had heard this the song and they were attracted, then they came because they were thinking of turning their backs to this. They weren't going to be here. Maybe that's why she didn't do it the night before. She didn't have any spirits to all. I don't know. Oh. She said, though earlier they wished to turn their backs on us and refuse to do our bidding. So, and we're talking sorceress world, like she's to her, it's not a spooky thing or a scary thing, I'm sure. They weren't gonna do harm, but just her tools of invoking spirits was not gonna work until Gudrid was singing.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:06

Yeah, I mean they this, as we know from Yadrag's solar, we know the the nature of the gods and goddesses that they do change their minds. And, you know, if they're not pleased, then maybe she's not gonna get access to this stuff. Um so whatever Gudrid, you know, provided in that ceremony, this lady's saying she changed the she basically changed your fate.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:34

Yeah, right. Because I'm sure they're believing that these spirits not only are going to be telling the future, they're probably gonna have something to do with the future, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:49

And I also like um the wisdom of the Cirrus because she essentially is teaching Gudrin in a sense, and this might just be me.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:01

Oh, I feel like that too, though. Like it's a motherly moment. I do feel like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:05

Like Gudrin, it doesn't be you Pagrin, be you Christian, whatever you say you are, you have this gift, right? You've been called. So whatever season of life you're in, you still carry this ability.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:20

Right. I think that I feel like that too, that it was in all the translations. I feel like the message that came through was that this was a nice sorceress doing her religion the to the best of her ability.

unknown 1:05:36

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:36

These were people using the religion they knew and loved to the best of their ability. And really Gudra doing this on behalf of these people, even though she didn't believe it, was doing her religion to the best of her ability, you know. Right. And um it it has a just a positive feeling, I think, in the end of what happened. Her dad left for the evening because he couldn't handle, didn't want to be around the pagans. And so he was invited back after. It's just so her dad's not even there. I I don't know how he left, if it was in a huff, or if he tried to have her come with him. But for some reason, she was there. And this sorceress, then she goes ahead and she grants their wishes and or their questions and says that this time will pass, your hard times are over, shortly we'll we uh we be done. And she has one-at-one times with the other people to kind of probably answer whatever questions they're asking. And um then she gives, takes a moment to give Gudrid a little bit of a blessing or a little bit of a reading, I guess, for her. And it's cool. It's um read it? Yeah. Um, and then also this translation, just to show where Gudrid, we know that she learned it from her her mother and her foster mother, she says, Gudrid says, I'm not skilled in deep learning. Did you read this already? I'm not skilled in deep learning. This is one translation, nor am I a wise woman, although Haldis, my foster mother, taught me in Iceland the lore, which she called Weird Songs, which this translation spells it W-E-I-R-D. I like to think it's W-Y-R-D, but whatever. Right, right. Um she says, then thou art wise in good season, that lore and the ceremony are of such a kind that I propose to be of no assistance. Oh no, blah, blah, blah. Okay, so then this is what the sorceress tells Gudrid. Um I don't think I like this one, but it's a fine. She says, and for thee, Gudrid, uh, will I recompense straight away for that aid of thine which has stood us in good stead. So for as a thank you for doing this, I'm going to then tell you some truth. Um, thou shalt thy destiny is clear to me and foreseen. Thou shalt make a match here in Greenland, a most honorable one, though it not will not be long-lived. Not it will not, she's we're gonna meet someone, get married in Greenland, but it's not gonna last a very long time. Not not a long-lived one for thee because thy ways lies this is so Christian-y written. Hold on.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:46

Well, I can read, do read this one, and then I'll read this one and we can Okay, I'll read this one.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:51

And you, Grud, I will reward on the spot for the help we have received since your fate is now very clear to me. You will make the most honorable of matches here in Green Greenland, though you won't be putting down roots here, as your path leads to Iceland, and from you and from you will it be descended along and worthy line. So you'll have lots of kids and they'll be a worthy line. And she's talking about Christian kids, so that's cool. Over the over all the branches of that family, a bright ray will shine, which is so cute. I love that. May you farewell now, my child. So she's basically saying, You'll live in Greenland, you'll get married, marriage won't last. Greenland isn't your final destination. You know, you'll go back to Iceland in the end, but you'll the Greenland is not your final destination, which maybe Groodwood was really happy to hear that. We don't know how she felt about going to Greenland, you know. And I know. I know if her husband did just die, that totally stinks. But now she's in Greenland without a husband. If she'd never had a husband, how she you know, it's just who knows. Or was she excited because she loved Eric the Red's family? Maybe she was super excited and happy.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:03

She still is only 19, still doing the will of her father. You know, just saw all this death, lost essentially two mothers. We don't know what happened to her first mother, but she lost Haldas.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:17

Um, so here's this motherly figure reaching out from her her Norse or her pagan traditions, Celtic traditions to offer her, you know, some comfort almost. Um in this one it says if you I don't know if we need it, but the sorcerer in this translation says, Gudrid, I shall reward you out of hand because you are wiser than I supposed. Um the fate in store for thee is now all made manifest to me. Thou shalt make a most worthy match. Um a lineage of both great and goodly shall spring from thee, and above thy line brighter rays of light shall shine than I have power clearly to unfold. So basically saying you're a little more powerful than I am, I think. And now farewell and health to thee, my daughter. I love that. So it's very pleasant.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:24

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:25

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:27

I think I think, and then now she's ready with respect and a kind of a blessing to move forward. She's gonna marry. Well, I don't know what Thornstein is. She's gonna marry into a half pagan, half Christian family pretty soon. And she's gonna go on some pretty important adventures.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:47

But but her gift, whatever her spiritual, whether she sees it as this drive to Christian, where her spirit's leading her, or the spirit that she's called from this other world, somehow it's okay to have both almost. The prophecy didn't deny her access. She actually thanked her.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:10

And yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:12

It's an interesting, it's an interesting thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:16

Mm-hmm. That's a true. That's why I think Gudra uh she attracted us for so many different reasons. Before I even really thought, I mean, this part was she attracted at me for a different reason that we'll get to at the very end that we all know. But this was such a beautiful uh the Christian pagan question wasn't really any interesting to me when we started this, but here she is totally being a link for both in a very respectful way. Not even on Iceland, and Iceland did turn out to be the nicest, the most gentle uh conversion from pagan to Christian, you know, at that time, I think. But yeah, I just thought that was so cool. These two women, kind of powerful religiously in their own way, can come together to give this group of people something, some peace, right? And some that was cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:20

And yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:22

Yeah. And um, and to me, I just think of loss. When I look at that Sybil when she showed up at that farmhouse and in this, and sometimes I picture her, she's the last line of nine. It's the last gasping breath of all her sisters are dead. Yeah. Yeah. Her robe, maybe it has jewels, but I picture it looking a little worse for wear, maybe. She got it out of her trunk and put it on. And then I see Gudrid, who has just lost her female line.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:53

You know, she's shipwrecked.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:56

She's she's a lone woman, and then she makes this connection or this blessing from a woman of her, you know, this other traditional style. Um, and it probably was comforting to her to think, okay, well, I'm on the right path. I'm supposed to be in Greenland here for a little while. And I just thought it was interesting how um we got a view into this window of what living paganism looked like at this period, and how it was probably willing to live amongst other creeds if it if they would have allowed it to.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:34

Yeah. Which they did here for a while. And there was a law that you could we're when they finally when Iceland finally adopted Christianity, you know, there was the law that we're Christian now, but you can do what you need to do behind closed doors or whatever. Greenland is interesting that it wasn't the again, the first Christian chapel was Eric the Red's wife's chapel, Thord Hild's chapel. And Greenland is an interesting place where it was the European people that were run off by the indigenous people from other places that came to hunt and eventually settle. So it's it didn't take, you know, as but I don't know, just kind of a cool, interesting place.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:26

It sort of speaks to what Gudred symbolizes in everything in in the sagas is this bridge between worlds almost, you know. That Green was gonna live for a minute but then die and keep moving on. So um it starts her travels that we know she can travel into both worlds if she can speak to spirits coming and not be afraid.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:56

Not be afraid nowadays the idea of that is woo-hoo.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:00

Yeah, you know, yeah. And she can, you know, that that prophetess before she even started, she reckoned the crowd. She sort of felt them out. And so I thought I thought it was interesting. Um for many, the Vulva status was fully embraced later in life. So the fact that the Cirrus said, You are wise in your season kind of speaks to that, you know. Often after a woman had passed the childbearing years, this was viewed as a spiritual awakening where she moved from role of wife and mother to a wand bearer who belonged to the whole community.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:40

Yeah, because in uh you have the maiden season that you're a maiden, right? It's the spring of your life, and you're a beautiful maiden, and all the wonderful things that a maiden is and can be, and you feel like. And then you go into your mother, your bearing fruits, and your harvest time, and the mother time, and that's magical and wonderful, and all the awesome things that come with that, and you know, the power that comes with that, and then that ends, and then it's so interesting because it is uh advertised as being the worst time of a woman's life, you know. But man, it's pretty mad, pretty powerful, and it's the crone phase, right? And that's your after the harvest, and it gets the cold, dark time of the year, winter, and the symbolism with that, but think of all the how magical and when you I don't know, when you're sitting in the fall or the end of summer, I'm gonna get really weird here, but you know, at the end of summer when you get like the first smell of somebody were using their wood burning stove and that first smell of firewood, right? And you get this feeling, and I wish there was a word for it a cozy, a potential, some kind of powerful word for what's to come in the winter and what that means. And that's what this time feels like, this crone time. I agree. I agree, and yeah, go ahead. Oh, well, you can't you can't tell anyone, no one's gonna believe you that it's great because you have the wrinkles and the neck and your body's doing weird things, and maybe you just lost your identity when your kids all moved out. Who knows? There's all these things happening that seem like, oh, it's the end, this is the worst. Yeah. Yeah. And if you feel it and own it and settle into it, it's amazing. And the power of it, no wonder this kind of work in this day, you know, in the peg, whatever, was set aside for women like this, because man, you can really do some work.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:13

It is really true. It's restorative because you you think about before I went like to stayed in Montana for a while over the winter, we would only be there in the summers, and everyone would say, Oh, well, the winters are are horrible, they're horrible. You just don't want to be here during them. And then I spent a winter and you see the preparations and the, you know, like almost like motherhood in the fall. You're chopping your wood, you're getting ready, you're all, you know, in a flurry, and then the first snow falls, and then your power goes out, and then you're in your house, and you've stored up your food, and you've got your books and your knitting, and you're kind of having a moment of rest and reckoning. And, you know, you you can plan and you can think, and I feel like that's what this crony stage is, but no one recognizes it as regenerative, or that you're you're you're wanting blessings on your children who seem so vulnerable in that world, and you're trying to reckon wisdom with youth.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:24

And we're being told we're being told that, like you're saying, that it's winter so hard, it's the worst time. And it isn't. And then it's this time where here's this crone woman and this maiden girl, and this crone woman has lost her helpers, she's just relying on this old knowledge, hoping people still have it, realizing people don't. And this maiden girl comes to the rescue with this knowledge, and it's um she just handles it with grace, which is what I'm saying is that at this age, you've been through everything, and kind of what our job right now is to hear our children are maiden age and young, you know, whatever. And um we get to hear all our old knowledge recited back to us in young voices, and we have to decide what to do with that. Like, do I just let that do I try to correct it and teach them what I know now? Or do I respect their journey and let them sound kind of dumb right now or or excited, like, oh, that's an interesting path. I wonder where that where that takes them. And it's just it's it's cool. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:49

You're speaking of this really cool balance that that when you have like a lot of wisdom and and even this old prophetess says you are wise in your season. And that's what you're doing. Your season is I'm giving you grace in your season. And the fact that this pagan belief in the crony or in in a woman that's valuable not just to her family anymore, but to her community belongs to everyone, and they they set up the space in this high seat for her to share what she sees. Well, you get Christianity in there and they're gonna shut that down. No one's gonna provide a space for an older woman. Maybe I'm just speaking because I'm mad today, but no one's gonna provide a space for an older woman anymore to share her vision.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:44

And well, they are gonna create a space, but that's a little room attached to the side of a church.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:50

Exactly. Exactly. And if they want to visit you and hear your wisdom, they'll ask for it. But that's such a beautiful acknowledgement of the role of every human has a has importance no matter what season they are around the sun in a community that's that's values that worships the journey around the sun.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:13

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:15

So yeah. So I I love this moment because Gudrid, you know, she gets we see her fate, no matter what religion, no matter what it's translated into, is that spirit she's gonna sing that song and spirits will come to her, and that's what she is.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:38

And we'll I will probably talk about next week then the cause the uh cool uh what's the word, the cool compliment to this, because it happens from a Christian point of view. We get that's right, a Christian blessing or prediction from a Christian source that is mirrors this prediction almost identically. And so, like saying this, that no matter what world she's in, she's still Gudred, and whatever the source is, if it's whatever you believe, the sources, her the message for her, her journey and her path were the same. And we could take that to believe we are on this earth for a purpose. And no matter like the this getting to the island, but this, this, this, um, off course, on back on course, you are if you can believe that it's gonna be the what is yours will not pass you by, right? This you end up where you are meant to be. Yeah. Um, you're never in the wrong place, basically.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:49

Right, right, right. And that's why Gudrid's story is so important that they they saved this for us, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:57

I know, I love it.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:59

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:02

So I wish you all good seeing all you cronies out there. Yay!

SPEAKER_00 1:25:08

Oh, we have a crony show coming up.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:10

Yeah, the crony show.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:14

We're gonna do a live, we think on Saturday nights, of a crony show. I we're just coming up with that word.

unknown 1:25:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:21

We were gonna call it weird Saturday or something. I don't know. We'll come up with the name of it, but maybe a live where we sit and talk about weird stuff and local or current events, politics, conspiracy theories.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:37

Because we our kids are not wise in their season, do not want to hear my conspiracy.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:43

So we're hoping there are other women out there and men who want to hear get some crony talk going.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:50

In a weird way.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:52

So anyway.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:54

So that was great. That was great.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:57

Yeah, and there's lots of things we're gonna hearken back. I think we'll hearken back to this moment a lot now moving forward. This is a pivotal moment, at least for me, us in her story. Um and I didn't realize this season was gonna be so much about Christianity and paganism. Um, and it doesn't have to be, it just is turning out that way.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:21

Well, but we are going to um there's more. We're gonna talk about sailing and adventuring, all sorts of things.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:31

So experiments people have done in the modern age, they've rebuilt the boat, which there is a trip. Well, you know, we can go on a Viking boat trip in Norway. I think it's in the spring. You can go on their boat.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:49

I think we need to go and do some field trips. We need to do maybe we bring a group of cronies with us on our ship of cronies.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:00

And then um um, yeah, we're gonna talk about how the they did a modern-day experiment on how to make a Viking sail, which sounds kind of boring, but it's yeah, yeah. What it takes to actually make all these sails and think the Vikings are sailing everywhere, these Norse people in Icelandic, and what it takes to make all that. So, any yeah, you're right. We'll get into other stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:26

Yeah, we've got some fun coming. So that was great. I was happy to talk about the cat woman.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:32

Oh, yeah. My opinion on that is that I love my cat very much. And um, I would never make gloves or hats out of his skin or his fur. But I guess I could see if fur was hard and you wanted something that you loved and it was gonna die and it was old anyway. Maybe she made gloves and hats out of that. Also, we had to say cats are Freya's animal. So the goddess Freya, who is the main She's the Odin. She's the main goddess of this Norse pagan. And she had cats all over. We didn't talk a lot about the burial sites. But yeah, cats are found in burial sites. We'll talk more about burial sites. Yeah. Okay. So anyway, that's my opinion on the cat fur.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:19

Okay, just a little message for the cat lovers. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:22

No cats were harmed in the filming. Yeah, you're good. Okay. Well, yay, come to distaffpodcast.com or distaffpodcast at gmail.com with any comments or questions. And yay, thanks for listening. Okay. Awesome.

unknown 1:28:42

I'm