Negotiations With the Un-Dead. Love, Loss and Religion. S:2, E:7

In this Episode, Gudrid finds love, marries the most handsome man in Greenland and prepares to settle down in wedded bliss. But, it is not to be. Illness and chaos find Gudrid again, this time she will need to negotiate with the living as well as the dead. As always, she does it with grace. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Distaff podcast. Before we start, though, we have to show. I want to show what you're wearing.

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Me? Because your sweater. Oh. Do you want to see my knitting? Then you have to show your dreadnought thing or whatever. No, this is your one. This is what Kim made. And it has little ribbons. It's so cute. There you go. It has like a little cool. Anyway.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

It's so thick. What kind of stitch is it?

SPEAKER_01 0:31

It's like it's a doubled over stitch thing. What's it called? Oh, it's so cool. No, it looks like tulips or something. It's so pretty. Yeah, I'm just going to do it. I made it. Um when I was procrastinating my thesis, I made lots of projects. I even got into like miniature pottery making with my little wheel. So my procrastinations bear fruit.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Comes out in a creative creativity, yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Kind of sad.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

No, it's awesome. This um this podcast is one of the fruits.

unknown 1:10

That's true.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Oh, it's good. Oh, good. Well, I love it. Okay, you're kind of replaced the show on this one.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

I'm in a so I'm just gonna do a quick recap of where we are, even in uh Gudra's story in the season, because we started out, I think, five, six episodes ago. Uh with Gudrid, the well-traveled story. She lived around a thousand AD. Um, and she is considered. If you go on TikTok or Instagram, you can find all these little shorts about this amazing woman traveling. And um, but anyway, we we really have enjoyed talking about her. So we haven't gotten her very far in six episodes because there's so much foundation we needed to lay about um her life as a, you know, Christian and a pagan woman and someone who actually gave birth in North America in 1003 and lived to tell the tale. So she's a pretty cool lady. But we haven't gotten her very far yet. We got her from being born in Iceland, and now she had gotten on a ship with her father and 30 other of their closest friends, and they sailed um in an open canar Viking ship to Greenland, and it took them four several months, and they shipwrecked. And last episode we discussed um them spending the winter um at a at a long house at a farm where she we got to see a remarkable pagan ritual occur and in which she was very helpful with. And um part of the prophecy that the seer woman um foresaw for Gudrid was a it seemed like a pretty happy life, a happy prophecy. She was going to meet, did you know, she was going to get married, you know, she wasn't gonna be stuck in Greenland forever, so she was gonna travel. Um, so as we continue in the sagas now in the story of Gudrid, uh, we find that yes, that prophecy seems to be coming true. But as we've discussed, sometimes your hominjah gets in the way or leaves, or you know, the waves can get a little rocky, and we see that with Gudrid. And I want to point out that at this point in time, she is probably they're thinking 18 years old, 18 or 19. She's young, thousand AD. Um a woman who's been raised with pagan and Christian um belief systems, early belief systems. And she's already been told that she's a reckoning woman. It's been prophesied that she spirits can she can summon the spirits, so she's quite remarkable even at her young age, as the seer said in her season.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

And in both worlds, she's she I think she feels like she's respected in both equally Iceland and Greenland, and pagan and Christian, and in two pretty, I think um you have your Ericsson family, who's a big important family in Greenland, and then I feel like she's respected by everybody, you know, even the people that don't necessarily like the Ericssons, maybe. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

Yes, and for sagas, um, they don't mind telling the good and bad about uh these characters. You know, the descendants seem to be okay with telling you, you know, Eric killed a bunch of people, or you know, or he got drunk or he Yeah. Yeah his wife wouldn't sleep with them. Yeah, his wife wouldn't sleep with them. So, you know, they're they don't hold back. And so the fact that we don't see any character flaws really in Gudrid, she's kind of stays pretty strong through all this is kind of interesting.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

Um so today what we're doing then is we have Gudrid. They've survived this winter. Um it looks like in Greenland they do deal with famine, they deal with climate problems, they deal with um link with the land itself changing. It's starting to become into a colder period, and so the archaeological record starts to see them going from eating livestock animals to narwh, you know, more marine life, pharmigans, things that people would normally not like to eat. And then they some of them are actually starving. So um, the prophecy that this seer gave in our last episode of a good spring and good times kind of makes you feel like, oh, Gudrid's headed in the right direction, you know. So anyway, today we have Gudrid and her father. Um, the spring comes, and they finally get up to Eric the Red's property, which is called I love how you say it. Brat Lyd. Brat Lid. Brat Lyd. Something like that. That's his yeah. Yeah, that's his property. Um, we are going to meet Eric and finally meet his wife, who is a character in herself. And there are three sons living with them, is that or four, three.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

Three for sure. Eric, Leif, and Thorvald, and then possibly of half's daughter, Freitas. I do feel like there's another one. Thorstein. Thornstein. Oh. Did I not say?

unknown 7:30

No.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

Did I say Eric, Leif, and Thorvald? So Leif, Thorvald, and Thornstein. So there's four sons, right? Four sons. I don't think there's a son named Eric. I think I've said Eric. So Eric's.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:43

Never mind. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

Eric's. Leaf is the oldest, then Thorvald, then Thornstein, and then half children, or maybe real daughter, Freitas. And I do feel like there's another half someone in there.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

And there could be, because as we're going to talk about, there's polygamy, there's um content. There's lots of even Leaf has some random children. So it can get a little bit messy, but um, we will have them arrive at Eric the Red's property finally. Good, welcoming. Um Gudrid's father gets land, and then we see this pretty, and then winter comes, and we see this beautiful love story blossom, and Gudrid gets married. And um, that will last about a year, and then um Gudrid will lose that husband. So by the time we're done with the story, Gudred is not even 20, and she's lost one husband, possibly two. So she's been widowed twice. Um, and so that's what we're we're at today, and that will instigate her next um her next group of travels. Yeah the big ones.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Yeah, the big ones. That's perfect, good setup. All right. Okay. I love it. All right. So I guess do you want me to just briefly explain that we are dealing again with two sagas? Please. And um, so there'll be I don't know, I guess if you've if you haven't read both sagas or if you have read both sagas, what we're we're kind of are finding that even though there are two sagas within a saga, especially the saga of the Greenlanders, I think, where uh we are finding maybe they jumped around oh no, in the Vinland sagas. Maybe they jumped around a little bit timeline-wise, but just a caveat that we are talking about two different sagas who ha who are basically telling the same story, but can be in some cases pretty significantly different in sea voyages and locations of events and stuff like that. Right.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

Right, right. And so that's that's kind of the uh something for our listeners to keep in mind that we are navigating um I guess no original sources unless you want to talk about the archaeological records, but we're we're navigating these um yeah. Translations. Translations, yeah. Translations and also oral narrative tradition, which every generation that retells the story is gonna add something a little different. And of course, we add in the Christian uh trans the translators in the 11th and 12th centuries who are really theirs are what we are relying on, and sometimes they'll pepper in some Jesus stuff.

SPEAKER_00 10:59

So as they will do, yes, as they are wont to do, as they are wont to, but which is fine, that's lovely. And then also we have the Helmingskla, Helming, Helmingskila. Okay, which is nor another, it's not a saga per se, but it does talk a lot about Leif Erickson's time over in Norway, and then it kind of does talk about this the villain stuff a little bit too. So then you have that. So yeah, just a lot of sources, and what's cool is when you have one saga tell a story. Well, okay, maybe. Okay, that's cool. Glean what you can from that saga and use it the way you will use it. You have two sagas and now potentially three talking about a story, even if it's messy and kind of you can put it together enough to to trust that this hap-this is real, like this is more historical than other sagas, I guess you would say, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:00

And so in order to make it a little bit easier to talk about you and I, we um usually try to distill it down to the little pieces of truth that seem to go through all of them. And then maybe the scholarly works that others in the archaeological, so you kinda can triangulate your story so we can feel comfortable talking about it. Um, the way I look at it, she's they head up to Leif Erickson's uh to Eric the Red's estate. She marries Thorstein, and then there is a play a dearth or a sickness that strikes the household that winter. Yeah. Do you want to talk about the wedding? Yes. So let's start with let's get Gudrid married. Married.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

Um I'm gonna show one.

SPEAKER_01 12:57

Please do.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

Please do. This is not to get I don't know if this is if this is a way we want to bring it. But we don't have any really I'll get it as a historical image, not a woo-woo woo-woo thing.

SPEAKER_01 13:19

Good, then pull it out.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

Okay. If I keep talking, I'll looking for it. Oh well this is a little bit of a couple of things. It popped right up at the top.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

Okay, then it wants to it wants to speak.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

Alright. Um, it is the four of wands. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Okay. And that's the image showing us the uh tarot card.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

It does a tarot card, and I apologize to anybody that that is freaked out by tarot.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

I apologize for any any spiritual aids, our following.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

Okay, but this is a happy, even the artwork. I just whatever. It's the you're yellow, happy, it's your four of wands, it's uh marriage, it's a celebration, it's just the happy thing. You got people here celebrating with them. It's just a celebration of a life moment, right? Right. And um whatever that brings, whatever that leads to, however, you got there. Um it's it's part you you're you know, you're seeing them kind of set off. It's like there's still a journey ahead. It's just the card that pops into my mind a lot with this part of her story. And can I have to edit that out?

SPEAKER_01 14:35

I I like it because well, tell us I like I like it because I like the learning about the tarot card, the whole the all the runes and tarot cards and runes are just binding things. Um, because that those cards are not they can be good or bad, like you said. And Gudrid's life is full of good and bad. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

And the cards are cool in talking about this time in this area. The art of these cards, when we're talking about this time, we're not talking about that far the artwork done, um, the things that were important to the people who made the art on these. They're historical. They were playing cards and they were getting sorry.

SPEAKER_01 15:27

But they were um used these cards.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

Well, the art and the original game, I think, was from Italy. You know, so we're talking Romani or gypsies or I shouldn't say gypsies. We don't know.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

We don't know yet. We haven't gone there yet.

SPEAKER_00 15:45

Yeah, we haven't gotten there. We'll end the you well, that's it's fun. We'll keep it because that's interesting. But um, but the a lot of the if you want to weave in all this stuff, because someday we will talk about runes and divination. We just talked about sorcery and we're gonna talk about a different kind of inspiration that comes in from the Christians. Like if you're talking about unknown things in this world and this universe, and how do you bring them down to you to help you? This this artwork, these tarot cards or runes or uh casting, but all these things are just like anything else. It's like the invention of film. When film was invented, what are you gonna do with film? Are you gonna make beautiful movies or are you gonna do horrible images? And yeah, yeah. Like it's just like the same thing, but I'm getting off topic. It's just it's a card that keeps popping into my mind for her and this wedding feast that they're having, and they've just had a famine, and the people hosting this feast were probably it was a big deal, you know, but they still want to have a really good feast, and and the hap-I feel like she's very, very happy right now. Like this is a happy moment in her life. I that's what that's what I'm saying. I feel like she's very happy.

SPEAKER_01 17:05

Don't you think that she seems to be as we'll see in future things, she kind of sustains that this inner happiness kind of like you know, and maybe it's the humming jum, maybe it's the their outlook on the world that good things are gonna happen, bad things are gonna happen. Um but yeah, I to see her. I think that's why this idea of her wedding um makes me happy to think about because we we know it's not gonna last long, and that the prophetess lady told her that. But um, you know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 17:48

It just Yeah, I think it was a ha I think it was happy for her. I think it was a moment in this place is this area for all these people of a celebration and happiness. And and you're right, I do feel like Gudrid's background color on all her phases of life is a happy yellow, you know, or happy golden sun, you know. And and whichever husband she's in the picture with, she's cool with. Yeah. And her dad. And like you were saying a minute ago, when you go online and you're looking at all these different images of Gudrid the Royal Travel, like you were saying, some she's like this book, which maybe she was, but like this, like almost manly.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

Yeah, she had to be.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

Yeah. Yeah. Just angry or out there conquering and slaying, but maybe she was just a happy traveler, you know, a happy. I don't know. I just picture her happy.

SPEAKER_01 18:44

I think, yeah, it's that's she's fun to think about that way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:50

Okay, so anyway, okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

So I I might just read this is just the Eric the Red. It doesn't have the other stuff. And the only thing I'm bothered about is the idea that um Eric the Red in one of these sagas, we do get a look and a glimpse inside his longhouse in the winter. He's entertaining people.

SPEAKER_00 19:14

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

And he's a little sad that he can't. He's like, I'm so sorry I cannot um entertain you in the way I would have liked. Um, which kind of speaks to this these hard times they're having a little bit. Um, he's embarrassed because he can't treat his guests in this um custom he would like to. And his guest said something nice like, don't worry, we brought things in our ship or something. Um, so we understand that they're, you know, that the tales and the idea of famines and struggles um are real at this point in time. Yeah, but the sagas are gonna give way to um let's see. So we have we have what you left us with um is the seer at the first longhouse. Um spring comes, and and we know that Gujard's dad did not attend because he did not approve of the sorceress.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

Yeah, the principal.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

Yeah. So um Eric the Red Saga continues, yeah. The weather soon improved, which once when once, which actually, I'm sorry, but what that tells me about Gujard is something interesting. Because if if my dad's like, if you do this, I can't even abide this. I cannot be in here. I'd be a little if you know, I'd be a little bit like that's probably not good to juju, but I think that's kind of like a modern, like, father patriarchal Christian idea. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

But the fact that should I tell you a personal experience? I think we'll edit this out. I know we'll edit this out, but I'm just gonna tell you. But I'll tell it in a way maybe we don't. Recently, as in like yesterday. Um, how do I tell this?

SPEAKER_01 21:17

I'll tell it a um just tell it and we'll edit it if we have to.

SPEAKER_00 21:22

Okay, I had a Gudrid moment in the same kind of thing of like the old world, the new world, because someone I love was asked to do something. I will just edit it. So Brandon's dad is getting surgery. He's like in surgery right now. Really? Was pretty sure he was going to it might be he's older and it's a it could be a rough surgery, so he was worried. So he had um everybody get together yesterday and he had asked Brandon to give him a blessing.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

Oh, interesting. So this

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Yeah. And Brandon was Brandon was like, Yes, of course I'll do it. Because he's honoring his dad. Like he didn't think of any of the other, you know, either way side of it. He's just like, Yep, my dad asked me to do this. I love my dad. For sure. He went out and he bought a white shirt. He got ironed it, got it all ready.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

Like oh, that is a drew grid moment.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

Yeah. So that's why. But I was having a hard time with it because I'm like, I put my hat back on of how I felt when I was really in and I would not be pleased with someone who I didn't think was interesting. W word um doing something like that. Interesting. So I was like, I don't think you should do it. I don't think it's you know, we aren't doing this, you're not worthy. And I would, if I was like, how do your sisters feel? And is this and um I had a hard time with it, and it was a good ribbon moment of like, well, what's the better thing? Is it trying to honor this religion, or are we honoring the dad? Or am I and for me, I have to just respect Brandon and whatever his wishes. So anyway, we he did it and it was lovely, and I had to hold like just chill and be there for it.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

Sarah, that is not weird. That's fascinating. That self-awareness moment for you.

SPEAKER_00 23:39

And it was like, oh my gosh, this is Goodrid. Like she must have probably maybe had a pit in her stomach to do this old thing that she doesn't agree with anymore. Or flip it like now she's Christian and I can't do that, you know, or something, whatever. It was like a crossing the line, straddling these two, have trying to have respect for both worlds. And wow, but that makes it really personal.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

Like that brings that story. Um because obviously Brandon knows how. Obviously, he's a child of God, you know.

SPEAKER_00 24:19

And he remember he knew the he remembered the words and stuff like that and how to do it. He did a fine job.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

And he didn't ever felt now if the surgery doesn't go well, and like, are you gonna have that? I mean, the did his dad asked for it. Yeah. But um his dad asked for it, yeah. And um out of I think just pure he gave a nice kind of t comments before it kind of explaining his where he is and his thoughts, his what's important to him, and it's his children and grandchildren. It was very beautiful. And it was um, I think if I think if he hadn't have had that, if I think with his dad having that moment of explaining kind of where he was, I think that's what put me at ease of like, okay, this is just bigger things. This is bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger than rules, expectations. It's kind of that God will figure it out moment, you know? And um it was but it was cool. I'm like, okay, I have to be like Gudrin and just be uh love both sides right now, and or you know, love both and totally offending anyone.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

Totally. Well, you had to fight your old demons a little bit, a little bit, yeah. And then um that black and white thinking or that like sort of what Gudrid struggled with.

SPEAKER_00 25:53

She's like yeah. Yeah, and not be and think, wow, I maybe I was a really judgmental member of that church, you know, like yeah, maybe I uh uh I don't know. So it's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

Well, it's sort of asking what what we're talking about, Gudrid is asked to do, and all the people at that time period almost um I guess realize what you're gonna keep and what you're gonna take, and what you're gonna what what's meant to be honored and what's meant to be, you know, like I mean they had to do it with the sacrifices and the rituals, little by little.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

Was this really important or what's important about it, or yeah, and if you're no longer honoring, like for me, it was okay, I don't I no longer really honor this. I respect, I respect, like we said, the powers, this wherever power is coming from, and whatever tool you're using to bring, I respect all of that. But and I really want to respect it where I'm not disrespect. So just because I'm not honoring a certain way, um doesn't mean I ha I have any right to dishonor it at all either, right? Right. I don't know. Right. I guess it's a question of of um maybe a mo a more hierarchical question of who has the right to own these rituals, you know, who has the right or the access or Yeah, because I even said I'm like I said, well, if he had asked me to do it, uh is it the same thing now? Or you know, but that's one of those God figures it out kind of things, I think, moments. I don't know. But it was interesting. It is maybe we do leave this in. Do you think we dare leave this in?

SPEAKER_01 27:50

We'll see how how it goes. But I do think that's a really cool thing that shows again what we're always talking about, that that none of these problems have been solved. Right, Aaron, just because we're just because we're living in 2026 and we know what we're doing. Right. And we're totally living in a a time of same as her, where everything was changing, you know, the all the things we thought were stable institutions are not, we have to rethink. We have to rethink, you know, like I don't know, your everything, but what it is, what an American is, what a Russian, you know, what is moral, what is not moral, what is are can you really support this institution if it's if it's not jiving with your inner compass, you know. Right. So I wow, yeah. Yeah. It makes that seer woman's words even more wise when she said they the spirit still came to you, regardless of what season you're in, or you know what I mean? At least that's how I read it.

SPEAKER_00 29:12

Yeah, because I feel like the the the feeling of um once I just stopped, like you're saying, took it out of a black and white and just put it in the love, like this is a loving, really loving moment for this the family and this father and his son. It was really beautiful. Their embrace at the end was like even more because I think they both understood what they just done for each other. It was really cool. I just also love my people that are very black, still in the not black and white, but still like I just I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

I still love my people that are the maybe with a I mean would you deny would anyone deny their father comfort? No, you exactly.

SPEAKER_00 30:06

You know and it was yeah, and it was Gudred, she wasn't gonna deny those people the comfort too. Like it's it's it was really interesting. I'm like, okay, yeah, that's what it comes down to. That's what it came down to exactly, Kim. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:21

Wow. You've had a quite a quite a moment. Huh. Which tells me, you know, the way people practice, maybe practice the same religions. They may think on paper they're all believing the same thing, but one man's, you know, kind and gentle is another man's, you know, rigidity that's hurting you, you know? So it's um, yeah. Wow, that's really a beautiful story.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

It was interesting. It was very and I it was interesting. It was interesting.

SPEAKER_01 31:05

In another context, what would be interesting, like what you just said, then what's to keep me from wanting to bless my grandchild if I feel it at that moment, you know?

SPEAKER_00 31:16

I don't know, because you go there and then what do you do? I mean, you go there and then you're going back. Well, I you're going back to all eternity of like what what knowledge and what who gets to have say on blessings or magic or saving miracles? Like who who is it because is it what you do, or is it what your intention is? Is it what you were taught? Is it what you did before? Like in every religion there's preparation for certain things. And did you do the right preparation? Right. And then or does it just come down to oh this person needs this and I have the ability to do this and do it, you know, shut up about it or whatever. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 32:12

We can all be instruments, you know? Yeah. That is really, really interesting. So walking away from that, what do you think?

SPEAKER_00 32:24

I have a lot more respect for like what we're talking today because she's not done straddling both of these worlds and she's um she there was one part I was even thinking of with um I can't remember. I think her calmness, somehow she's she tapped into something when they say she's like a a reckoning woman or whatever the however they something she's tapped into to be able to. I didn't straddle that. I was a rack for all weekend thinking about going back and forth. Like I was not a reckoning, peaceful woman. I was um and so for her, she's this is her whole world.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:08

That she's straddling, and and the hands-on moment of oh my gosh, was really cool, was wild.

SPEAKER_01 33:16

Yes, that's where the rubber meets the road. Yeah, like it's one thing to talk about it, it's another to, but then you think about her, the things that we're lucky enough to have this experience with her. But you think about how scary she's just survived a shipwreck where her foster mother and father died, where she's left everything behind. She's all she's got is her dad, really. And um, if you really are gonna hold on to these, this new Christianity, which they're like, this is the truth, and don't do the pagan, it's of the devil, like the the concept of a devil hasn't been introduced into Gudrid's life. Yes, that's true. The concept of hell has just been introduced where it wasn't really before, to a certain extent. Um the concept of the Christian God can, you know, whip up storms and and do bad things and da da da and you don't have much control over it, for her to how scary to be like, okay, well, I guess I will do this pagan thing, even though I am a Christian woman, like you're kind of she was in a really precarious situation. And to have your dad walk off and not want to be a part of it.

SPEAKER_00 34:46

Not only are you staying there witnessing it, but now you're participating in it. And you're told you're good at it? Yes, and given a little bonus busting by the the the sorceress. And then did she tell her dad that? Did she share that with him, or what what was he what would he also he obviously didn't have the same ability she had to straddle these both worlds with class or you know, or um or maybe he did, and maybe he's because maybe he did, because uh at one time I'm like maybe it's better if I'm not there bringing like this stressed energy to it, you know? So maybe I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

Well, okay, let's think of it like he was because he loved her, like she wouldn't be able to do it if he was there giving off that energy, like, oh, please don't do that. Like maybe not true. Like if you were in that room, that would have been hard for I didn't want to give negative energy, so I had to rectify it before, but um he also he's best friends with Eric the Red, who is a full throttle Norse pagan, and he loved him enough to follow him and to so he probably is maybe he's a torn character too, because as we talked, he was a slave and and he but we know that he wants to reach upper echelons of respect in the Norse communities, so he is friends with Eric the Red, and Eric the Red's now we're gonna discuss, has his own issues at home. Let's do this idea. Do you want to?

SPEAKER_00 36:32

Sure. Sorry, I took us on it.

SPEAKER_01 36:34

But I guess we have to leave it in because it's I think that is very important because uh it it's important because history doesn't come to us for no reason. Like if you're not paying attention to this her story, it's the same as our story.

SPEAKER_00 36:51

Yeah, you know, and family is family and love is love, and not all family will believe the same things, and how do you behave in those moments and what what comes out in the end, what's the most important, and hopefully you do the right thing. Not always, sometimes you won't, sometimes you do storm off into the night, you know. But um yeah, the that this this um I don't know, it was like I was really grateful to have any kind of reference of somebody. Like it was interesting, it was really cool.

SPEAKER_01 37:24

It is so interesting how she kind of came. Um, what's the one where the the female ancestor that follows you in your life? The flyjah. That's like a philia moment. Uh-huh. Oh, interesting. Here you are in her same position.

SPEAKER_00 37:44

Yeah. And it was just like just chill out and love. And it ended up being one. I love all those people in that room. I love that whole family. They're my family too. And and it was a uh and you know, it was great. It was beautiful. Yeah, it was beautiful. So wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:06

I love that. Okay. Yeah. So, all right, good. So that takes us right to Eric.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

Yeah, we love, I love Eric too.

SPEAKER_01 38:17

I do too. He reminds me of one of our brother-in-laws who we love. Um okay, so finally everything comes. The spring comes, Thorborn's excited because Thorborn's there's no Christians on Greenland. I mean, we know Thorhild, just as Eric the Red's wife and Leaf, I guess, when he comes back. Yeah. Um, but anyway, I'll just so it says Thorborn made ready a ship ship, and they all went on until he came to Brataleed or whatever, the sleep, the steep slope, it's known as. I know, I love that. Eric re and I'm just reading this out of the Eric the Red, a translation done in 1800. So give that what you will. But um, Eric received him with utmost cordiality, saying he'd done well to come there. Thorbjorn and his family were with him during the winter. So again, the winter is where thing decisions are made and things happen. It seems like the rest of the year it's all action. Um and the following spring, Eric gave Thorborn land at Stockness. A handsome farm, buildings were built for him, and he dwelt there afterwards. And so we kind of get introducted, introduced to Eric's family now that they're on Greenland. And Eric had a wife who was named Toadhild. Is that the right? I've been calling her Thordhild, but I think you're right, Todhild. I I don't know. And you I'm so sorry. We need to learn over the summer. We're gonna learn old North.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

Before these Lijahs come back with like a different lesson to teach. I know. Take some time to learn your pronunciation, girls. Yes, okay. So the stuff you know what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 40:08

You already make it totally, I can read it, but I've read it for 15 years wrong in my head. So there Well, okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:15

So just so can everybody know you've been studying this, like you do know it. You've been studying this for years and I'm an I'm a yes. Say what you are.

SPEAKER_01 40:27

I'm just a nerd for story. But I have been studying Dana.

SPEAKER_00 40:34

I have some some papers to prove it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:41

So we will trust your pronunciation on that. Oh, please do not. But I'll tell you, if I do it right, I'll tell you. Oh, I'm pronouncing this perfect.

SPEAKER_00 40:50

Oh, okay. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 40:51

Anyway, so they had a son named Thorstein and the other Leif. They leave out Torvald in this one, but we know he's there. Um, Thorstein was home at home at his father, and there was at the time no man in Greenland who was thought highly as he. The other brother Leif at this time had sailed to Norway and was there with King Olaf Trigvison. Okay, so let's talk about Eric the Red's wife for a minute.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

I love her very much.

SPEAKER_01 41:25

Why do we love her so much?

SPEAKER_00 41:28

Well, she we had talked about her in a couple episodes. She's the one that has some cool lineage. She has the Russian, she's got the Irish royalty in her lineage. She's the one that came over, had a stepfather, half we're descendants from her half-sister. Um, so we're she's her parents, we're really like, not that that makes her important because we're related, but just a little personal touch with when I think about her, that she's coming from these really cool places, her line and Eric is just, I think that gives her probably in her blood and in her a little bit more. I don't have to be this Norse pagan woman, like she's interested in learning about other things, and because she is, she's true. And Eric is just, I'm this, I'm pagan, I'm Norse, I'm from we were both born in Norway, you know, and blah blah blah blah blah, and I I stick to my guns, and she's becomes I'm sure you're gonna go ahead, and she sticks to her guns.

SPEAKER_01 42:35

So do we have um an example of that conversation, or do we just hear it in several sagas? The sagas we became Christian and that she became Christian and wouldn't have sex with him until he built her a church.

SPEAKER_00 42:53

Yeah, so I just saw it. Let me find it. Um one source says uh so this is Eric the Red saga in this translation. Okay, thank you. And so it's the the saga of the Icelanders with a preface Jane Smiley, but it yeah. Who did it though? With a preface by Jane Smiley. I actually don't even know who the actual It's just a selection. Oh, it's a selection. So in this one, I guess I gotta give it to you.

SPEAKER_01 43:30

In this translation, it says it's an edit, it has different versions in it.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

Yeah, and it's pained in classics, the sagas of the Icelanders, and had that cool perfect. So um it says that so we know Leif is the oldest son of Eric. He did go to Oslo, Norway, became hardcore Christian um with King Olaf there. And King Olaf said, now go convert Iceland and spread the gospel. Or whatever. So Leif hardcore came back. And it said Leif made land in Eriksfjord and went home to the farm at Brata Lyd. There he was received warmly. He soon began to advocate Christianity and the true Catholic faith throughout the country, revealing the messages of King Olaf. How'd you pronounce it? Trigvasen? Trig Trig Trigvason. Same as you.

SPEAKER_01 44:23

Okay. To the people who, if we had time, we could get into what a weird dude he was.

SPEAKER_00 44:30

Oh, we're gonna have to because that's the other Gudrid who burned all the purple dudes trying to propose to her. Because she was a pagan woman that wouldn't convert to Christianity. He she didn't burn him, but he was one of her suitors. I think they actually probably did love each other. There actually is a love story there. I think but she they just couldn't change their religions for each other, kind of thing. Okay. Um, yeah. So anyway.

SPEAKER_01 44:56

So we've spent, which is interesting that Eric the Red let Leif go to Norway, but he's there with the king. So here's Eric, who's this exiled, banished, yeah, bad guy in Iceland. From Norway. Yeah. From Norway, banished. So it's almost like he's giving late Leaf. Leaf's gonna take one for the team, for the family, and redeem them, kinda, right?

SPEAKER_00 45:25

Yeah. And it was it was a smart idea because at that time Norway had kind of turned its head to Iceland, like, well, what's going on? Where's all this walrus ivory and not necessarily that's Greenland, but Iceland, you know, the head had turned to that direction. And so it was probably really smart to send some ambassador or your son to go be the king's man. And then you had to pick up Christianity, and then he's back here, and he's gonna, he's a good Christian boy, Leaf. Leaf the lucky.

SPEAKER_01 45:59

And if you're interested, try to find the uh or find you could read Leif's conversion, which wasn't so warm and fuzzy over there. No, is that in the Hemings? That's in the I think so, but we're not we don't need to get into it. But yeah, it's an interesting story in itself.

SPEAKER_00 46:17

Yeah, um just in case it's in this one.

SPEAKER_01 46:20

Oh, Hemings, okay.

SPEAKER_00 46:23

But okay, so um Okay, sorry, go ahead. So then then the next paragraph. Oh, my page turned. Oh that. Okay, so but Eric, Eric the Red, so Leaf comes back, he's this wonderful Christian guy, he's a king's man, he's everybody loves him. He may or may not have just saved a shipwrecked group of people, blah, blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_01 46:43

Oh, and he has had a love affair there. He had quite the time there.

SPEAKER_00 46:47

He had a good time. Oh, yeah, he had a love affair with a beautiful princess. Yes, and had it got her knocked up, yeah, and then left. And she's like, Well, I'm gonna be sending him your way then, or something, right? Anyway, so Eric was reluctant to give up his faith, but Chiodhild was quick to convert to Christianity and it had a church built a fair distance from the house. It was called Chiodhild's Church, and there she prayed along with those other people who converted to Christianity, of whom there were many. And after her conversion, Chiodhild refused to sleep with Eric, much to his displeasure. And then there is um there was another thing I think we read that it was because he wouldn't convert to Christianity. Yeah, or she was sleep with them.

SPEAKER_01 47:38

I've heard two things. One is she wouldn't sleep with them until he built her church. Oh, I like that. Which the church is still standing. Yeah, but another is she just wouldn't sleep with them because he was pagan. And he was like, I will never not be pagan. So it's kind of they're an interesting in-laws for Gudrid. Yeah, but they're also they say that um other lord, this is from that video that talks about Gudrid, echoes of history, um, said that she the marriage connected her to royalty, to explorers, to men whose names would echo through history. Um so I mean, obviously her father thought it was a good marriage. Um he this Thorstein and all the other sagas seems like a cool dude. And that they were in love and isn't yeah, yeah. So um let's see.

SPEAKER_00 48:44

So we could get really romantic and say maybe they had been in love as ch like childhood friends. I mean, they've known each other probably their whole life.

SPEAKER_01 48:54

We yes, we have talked about that. I remember that. That they would have known each other. They lived right in the same vicinity. Um, they're the same age, essentially. So I mean, it also speaks to me of the fact that she probably wasn't married to that other market guy that some of the sagas say, because the seer would have said, Oh, you're already a widow, you know. Right. So I feel like this was a happy event for Greenland, for the families, and how nice that here comes this Christian girl for Eric the Red's wife, Thorstein's mother. That would have been cool for her.

SPEAKER_00 49:40

Yeah, she was probably really a really happy feast.

SPEAKER_01 49:43

Yeah. So things were good. Um let's see. And so what did they say about Thorstein? There's a few things.

SPEAKER_00 49:56

About what kind of a person he was? Yeah, let's see. Um, well, here's that Eric had a wife named Chodhild and two sons, Thornstein and Leif. So he's not this one's not talking about Thorbald. Because it's possible well, I don't know. I'm not gonna go there. Yeah, but no, I know both of them were promising young men. Yes. Thornstein lived at home with his father, and there was no man in Greenland who was considered as handsome as he. Really? Yesome. So she probably was big time into him.

SPEAKER_01 50:27

Well, and yeah, and think about how fun. So you've got a summer of this, and Eric's son, Thorstein, began wooing Gudrid. And then this is Eric Thred to his proposal. A favorable answer was given, both by the maid herself and also by her father. The marriage was arranged so that Thorstein went to take possession of his bride, and the bridal feast was held at Bradahild in the autumn. So they had a summer romance. And you can picture, I don't know. The banquet went off well and was numerously attended. Thorstein already owned a homestead in the vested beard on the estate known as Lise of Jorder.

SPEAKER_00 51:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:16

Um, so we get them married. So, do you what do you know about what marriage looked like for her?

SPEAKER_00 51:28

Whoa. Um, I know they like to stay on the ship together when everybody else had to go camp somewhere. Yes, and that's where we get the funny Christian translation of explaining like this is before Christianity, which it wasn't, by the way. We know now. They were both Christian. Well, we maybe Thornstein. We were assuming Thornstein was we don't know.

SPEAKER_01 51:52

Yeah, we do think he is, right?

SPEAKER_00 51:55

Probably was his brother and his mom. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 52:00

Who knows?

SPEAKER_00 52:00

And we yeah, I mean we Oh, we yes, so you're right. He is. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 52:05

He is, oh yeah, he is. Okay, anyway, sorry. I can I'll speed us up. Um uh but as daughters, okay, so social standing. Once she gets married, um a woman was given the keys to the household's chest and storehouses, a visible symbol of her legal authority over the estate's resources while the men were away. Unlike European girls, Icelandic girls grew up knowing they could own property, inherit wealth, and legally initiate a divorce. They also would have known the guy could marry somebody else if he wanted to, but maybe with the Christian thing, that wasn't gonna happen. Um That's true. And by the age of 12 to 15, girls were considered adults ready to run a household. Um so anyway, let's see. So she was ready to be married, apparently. Yeah. And he was a good guy. It's a happy happy thing. So they there's different sway sagas, different ways to tell it, but um, they married and they went up to where his home Thorstein's homestead was, getting ready to for the winter. And at that homestead there was a co he had a girlfriend, probably. So we need so this is where we move into the the plague. So we could end this one here.

SPEAKER_00 53:42

Oh, let's do this. Let's get let's get him killed off. Okay. Don't you want to kill him? Yeah, let's kill him.

unknown 53:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 53:49

Okay. Um and then I'll just re quickly say if you've heard this saga before and you're like, wait a minute, wasn't it a shipwreck? And they were some guys farmed. That's the that's the uh Vinland saga, which has similar situation. Um they shipwreck for they're trying to do something we'll talk about later, trying to set off to Vinland.

SPEAKER_01 54:12

Yeah, I mean, they do have one I mean, there is in another saga they are already traveling, she and Thorstein.

SPEAKER_00 54:19

Um but either way, they they're on this land, and Thornstein the Black is the farmer. In one saga, his name, his wife's name is Grimhild. And then this one, Eric the Red saga, her name is Sigrid. Is that right? Sigrid. So there's a wife, a farmer's wife involved in both the sagas. Um, and then there's sickness involved. So the one we're talking about, which speaks, I think, a little bit, is this one from Eric the Red saga, right?

SPEAKER_01 54:52

Yeah, I think maybe just because there's a little more detail. Yeah. So this is this one. Same, but again, essentially the important things that happen appear in both, are addressed in in both in uh all the sources.

SPEAKER_00 55:08

So his actual sorry, his words to her are gonna be in the Vinland saga or the saga of the Green Letter. Sorry, they're both the Vinland sagas. That's so I can just say that when we're ready. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 55:22

So we're gonna so we have Gudrid married, young, newlywed. Um, and now it's getting to be autumn, and of course, that's time to get back, get your household in order, and so she gets to come as a young bride um to set up a household. Now I don't know if if uh Thorstein even had a house. It seemed like they were all staying together in the same longhouse.

SPEAKER_00 55:50

Which would be then are you maybe we're talking about the shipwreck kind of thing, or maybe the house wasn't ready yet. Who knows? But they they did. They have to they had to stay in the same longhouse with the farmer Thornstein and Thornstein the black and his wife, right?

SPEAKER_01 56:06

Yeah, and what makes sense to me is probably Thorstein was traveling around. Like he was a young man of that time, so maybe he had never lived on his homestead.

SPEAKER_00 56:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:17

And so here they are in the autumn. Um so Thorstein Thorstein in the autumn, he and Gudrid went to the other half of the homestead, and it looks like they were because Thorstein and Sigrid, there's two Thorsteins. So let's Thorstein the Black.

SPEAKER_00 56:38

We'll say Thorstein the Black is the final one.

SPEAKER_01 56:40

Thorstein the Black and his wife Sigrid welcomed this new um couple back. Their reception was a welcome one. They were there during the winter when little of the winter was passed. The event happened there, that fever broke out on their estate.

SPEAKER_02 56:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:56

Um, in other sagas, this is the 1800 version. On other sagas, um it says, let's see. There is one saga that says uh it uses the old Norse word so t t and that's just a general term for serious illness. Okay. So um what we know kind of condensing all the different sagas is that you've got this longhouse, it's winter, so everyone's in the longhouse, everyone's you know, together. We do know that whatever it was, the illness spreads rapidly through the household. Yeah. Multiple people die in a short period. It has the character of an epidemic disease. Thorstein, uh Gudrid's husband, dies in this outbreak, and that this there is unusual behavior um from the recently dead noted. Um so that's what this yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 58:05

Oh, can I just say that please um these people start dying before Thornstein Ericsson dies, and as they're dying, he um he ha so this is why I think he's Christian. He has these bodies put in coffins with the intention to bring them back to bury them in sacred ground. Okay, and that's that's perfect. So there's yeah, there's a question about in both sagas, there's a question about what to do with the bodies. Right. Um, and they want to bring all these people, Thornstein and Gudred's people, men or whatever, crew or whatever, back to Eric Tordhild Tordhild's chapel, right, to consecrate a ground and bury them in the summer or the spring or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 58:58

I am so glad you yeah, I'm glad you bring this up because this just like the story we talked about last week, this moment in the longhouse brings up again the the pagan and the Christian hate.

SPEAKER_00 59:11

Yeah. Yes. So they were having to make this decisions for people based on what they thought their faith was and how to handle their bodies once they were buried once they died. So yeah, so Thornstein, everybody gets sick, and eventually then Thornstein, well, eventually the wife, the farmer's wife, Sigrid or Grimhild, whichever one, get sick first. And um in in this one, the Eric the Red saga, she starts she's dead, right? But then she starts waking up and Thornstein, Scoodrid's husband, Thornstein Ericsson, um dies too. Yes. And but they're both laying there, but their bodies are both in this farmhouse, this longhouse, for a night, right? When they're and this is when the weird stuff starts happening. Yeah. They both wake up from the dead.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:10

Again, they're both it's got Gudrid stuck. Um well, this is a quote on this from uh Neil Price. It says, um, Iceland converted to Christianity around 1000 AD, the same period as the story. Gudrid herself will go on to be a Christian pilgrim. But in this moment, in this plague-struck longhouse, the old beliefs are still alive. And the question of how to bury the dead is not just theological, it's political, it's personal, and it's urgent. And that's sort of describing the same thing we were talking about a few minutes ago about when you are on these crossings of beliefs, when those intersect with a real life scary thing like your father dying or your, you know, it it becomes pretty real.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:01

The salvation of your spouse. That yeah. Yes. And are you gonna do everything correct? Yeah. In the living side of the planet. Because again, these are people that bend swords and break things to get prepared for them to go to this other side. Which is which is a living Which is a physical thing you do to prepare for this uh easier time on the other side. And so to be left with the responsibility of what to do with these bodies. Um Yeah. Uh, and the spirits rise, you know, the weirdness of the the wife waking up from death and saying weird things, and then Thornstein, Erickson wakes up when they thought he was dead. And do you want me to do this? Read this what he says to her.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:50

Well, let's see. I'm wondering if I should just read um, read the saga this section, and then we go into it. It might be easier because it describes um in basic terms kind of the mayhem that was going on.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:08

Oh yeah, do that, yeah. Before he gives his yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:11

Because it is mayhem.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:13

It's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:14

But this is Eric the Red, but the Vinland has some fun chaos too. Yeah. Um, okay, so this is Eric the Red saga. Okay. So they they really had a happy s situation for maybe eight months. Gudrid is happy. Um let's see. So then we get back to their homestead. Winter's coming on. When little of the winter was passed, an illness broke out. The overseer of the farmstead was named Garth. He was an unpopular man. So there we go. We've got them making judgments on this poor Garth for out of nowhere. But um because he's pagan. Okay. Oh yes, thank you. He was he took the fever first and died. Afterwards, and with but little intermission, one took the fever after another and died. And think of this longhouse, they're all there together. There's one a couple central hearths just in the center of the room. Um, there's no escaping what's happening. Um Then Thorstein, Eric's son and Gudrid's husband fell ill, and also Sigrid, uh, the wife of Thorstein the Black. And one evening Sigrid left the house and rested a while opposite the outer door. And Gudrid accompanied her. And they looked back towards the outer door, and Sigrid screamed out aloud. Gudrid said, We have come forth unwarily, and thou canst in no wise withstand the cold. Let us even go home as quickly as possible. Of course, she said it much plainer than that, but it's cold.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:53

We have acted carelessly. You shouldn't be exposed to the cold at all. She's trying to be nice to the sick woman. Like, we go outside, now you're gonna get cold. We need to go inside as quickly. So even in that moment, Sigurd's like, Oh, you're real you're streaming, you're seeing all these things, you're just really sick. Let's get you back inside. You know, she's logical.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:12

Gudrid's being very reasonable. Uh-huh. Um, and this is what Sik and let's do both translations because Yeah, do yours first. Okay, so Sigrid says, It is not safe as matters are. There is all that crowd of dead people in before the door. Thorstein, thy husband also, and myself, I recognize among them. And it is a grief thus to behold. Um, and when this passed away, she said, Okay, now Gudrid, I see the crowd no longer. So what does yours say about this?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:45

Yeah, it's that same thing out of the blue. So Sigrid, the farmer's wife, so everybody's sick, including Thornstein, Gudrid's husband. And Sigrid says, I won't go out with things as they are. All of those who are dead are standing there before the door. Among them, I recognize your husband, Thornstein, and myself as well. So she's seeing the dead, the sick, feverish woman, looks outside and she sees all the people that have already died, including herself, who's not dead yet, and Gudrid's husband. That would be so sad, who is laying in there sick. So it's kind of a sad moment. But Gudrid is like, well, you're cold, let's go back inside. And as soon as they go back inside, then she's like, Oh, I don't see them anymore.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:29

So And you also there's that question of um, like you've got Gudrid the pagan, would say, would understand this that the dead are happening.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:41

Yes. Um because Thornstein the black has a whip in his hand standing behind them when they're screen when Sigurd is saying there's dead people here. Yeah, where is he? And he's ready to walk.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:52

It's happening yet or not.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:54

Yeah, that's in the next sentence.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:55

Okay, you read that.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:57

So um so when she goes back inside, she says. I don't see them now. And Thornstein, and I'm assuming it's Thornstein the Black, whom she had seen with a whip in his hand, ready to strike the dead, had also disappeared. They then entered the house. So either that was a feverish vision that they saw, Thornstein the black with the whip in his hand, ready to fight off the dead. And he again, he's Christian. He claims he's Christian too. So he's seeing all this too and ready to fight dead people, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:29

Yeah. I mean, yeah, this one says Thorstein Erickson. Oh, really? No, no, had disappeared. Oh. Oh, this one says Thorstein had disappeared from Sigrid's site. Like he said, he's had a whip, he seemed to have a whip in his hand and a wish to smite the ghostly troop. Which think about this. This is handed down generation to generation. So this was pretty important. Afterwards, and all the people handing it down were Christian, probably, and had to make a decision. Should we say that our mom saw the whip or the ghostly troop? Right. Afterwards, they went in and before morning, Sigrid was dead, and a coffin was prepared for the body, which is interesting, like you were saying, because that means we've got a Christian thing going on. Maybe. Now the same day the men proposed to go out fishing, and Thorstein led them to landing places, and then the morning he went to see what they had caught. Um, so anyway, they're trying to keep everyone alive. What does yours say? Okay, do you have this part with the oh yes, go, go, yeah, go do it. Oh, this is the funny part.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:45

Okay. So before morning came, she was dead, and a coffin was made for her body. Okay, so Sigrid, the farmer's wife, dies, and they're gonna make a coffin for her body. Okay, that's different than the other. That same day, men were going fishing, and Thornstein the black accompanied them down to where the boat was. Boats were beached. So you've left Gudrid, the dead wife, in a coffin, and Thornstein Ericsson sick up in the longhouse. Thornstein the Black goes down to check on the fish and the boats and stuff. Then Thor Thornstein Erickson sent word for Thornstein the Black. So Eric Thornstein calls the farmer guy to come back up, saying there's no peace in the home because his wife was trying to rise up and get into bed with him. So you're Thornstein Erickson laying there sick. There's this dead body in a coffin who's trying to wake up and crawl over to get in bed with you. And I guess she made it as far as so, whatever the sickness was, maybe they weren't really dead and they were going like coma falling in the unconsciousness or something. Yeah. Yeah. But she made it to the sideboards of Thor of Thornstein Ericsson's bed. So he called, like, go get her husband and bring him back up from the beach.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:11

His dead wife was crawling over to me. Or maybe it was a fever dream. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:16

Well, he said he said, come get it. And this translation says saying he was saying that matters at home were hardly quiet. This is a hundred sky.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:27

And then he took hold of her. So the farmer comes back up, grabs a hold of his zombie wife, and draw puts an axe into her breast. So kills her with an axe. Kills his own wife with an axe.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:42

Yeah. And then they go they move on. Okay, so that's crazy. Thorstein, Eric's son, died near nightfall. Yeah. Um. And then Thorstein the Black, who's just put a pole axe on, killed his wife. Um begged Gudrid, whose son had died, so they say he died, to lie down and sleep, saying he would watch over the body during the night. So he did. So she did. And when a little of the night was passed, Thorstein, Eric's son, sat up and spake, saying he wished Gudrid to be called to him and that he wished to speak to her. So we gotta dig into all these things because it's all pagan stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:35

Um, but in this one it says Thornstein was dead.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:40

And he put her to bed. Does yours say that?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:43

Yeah, Thornstein was dead. He put her to bed. Um, and then they were talking, but then it was Thornstein the Black that kind of sees Thornstein Erickson kind of wake up again and wants to talk and say something, and he wakes Gudrid up. So it's like your husband, your dead husband needs to say something to you, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:03

Yeah, it says Eric's son in the night, his son sat up and spake, saying he wanted Gudrid. And this is what he said. Um God wills, he said, that this hour be given to me for my own and the further completion of my plan. What does yours say?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:24

Um, so it's uh what Thornstein Erickson is saying. So um he uh he answered so the far Gudred so Gudrun and the farmer are sitting there looking at her dying husband or her dead husband waking up to tell her something. And the farmer says, What is your namesake? What what is it you want, namesake? He said. So, like, what are you doing? What what do you want? Okay. Yeah. Not like, ah, or you know, just what do you want? And after a short pause, Thornstein Erickson said, I want to tell Gudrid her fate. So he wants to tell her her fate. Everybody wants to tell Gudrid her fate. So you have the sorceress that wanted to tell her her fate, and now you have her dying or dead, dying husband wanting to tell her her fate. And he says, I want to tell Gudrid her fate to make it easier for her to resign herself to my death. So it's just sweet. I do for I have gone to a good resting place. Oh, that's nice. Okay. I can tell you, Gudrid, that you will be married to an Icelander. Remember, they're in Greenland right now. Um, and you will live a long life together. So this is her dying husband in the in their appearance, waking up from the dead to tell her this, but waking up from whatever he's about to die, telling her this. That he loves, you know, that he wants his be at peace and have gone to a good place. You know, you're gonna marry an Icelander and you will live a long life together, and you will have many descendants, promising, bright, and fine, sweet and well-scented. Which again, I just love that. Of course they're gonna smell good. I know. I love that that's important to them. Definitely related to these people. You will You will leave Greenland to go to Norway and from there to Iceland and set up house in Iceland. There you will live a long time outliving your husband. So again, he's telling her she's going to be a widow again. You will travel abroad. Now, this okay, but anyway. You will travel abroad, go south on a pilgrimage, and return to Iceland to your farm where a church will be built. There you will remain and take holy orders, and there you will die. And that at that Thornstein Ericsson fell back and his corpse was made ready and taken to the ship. So it's a pretty thorough, like someone who knows already knows history, translating this and writing this. Hindsight, hindsight. Yes. Um but either way, it is lovely. And yes. It is her, it's it is what happens, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:16

Yeah. And um it's like her second prophecy. Um but we so you mentioned no one seems that surprised that they're sitting up and talking, you know, the dead guys talking. At least not in these, so yeah. So Gudred. What's interesting in this, I'm gonna read this translation just because it was written, it has this Christianity bent to it, which is kind of bizarre.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:53

Um, so here we've got, we've already it it mentions the acts, it mentions Sigrid seeing the dead, it mentions all the same thing. And Thorstein said, you know, your husband wants he's he's dead, but he's there. He went to find Gudrid, waked her, begged her to cross herself and to ask God for help, and told her what Thorstein, Eric's son, had spoken with him, and he wishes to meet with thee. Thou art obliged to consider what plan that will adopt, because I can in this issue advise thee in no wise. So again, she's being summoned by for a prophecy, this time by her dead husband, who wakes to give her a message. And it's weird in this situation that Thorstein the black, she's you know, again, you can go talk to him. I can't tell you whether to go or not, but you better cross yourself and ask your God to help, because uh what she's doing that this is a concept, the old Norse concept of a drauger, which is a revenant, a corpse that retains something of the living self and can return to communicate, warn, or threaten. And it's well documented across the sagas and supported by archaeological evidence of burial practices designed to prevent them from returning.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:22

Um several articles, scholarly famous ones, 1943, Davidson, The Road to Hell, covers the mechanics of how the dead were understood to persist and communicate. There was the belief of the intersection of cedar magic, prophecy, and communication with the dead. And um, Neil Price again says in 2019 incorporates recent archaeological finds, grave goods and burial configurations at sites like Burqa and Gamla Ups Upsala that provide physical evidence for ritual practices. So, in other words, you remarked this doesn't seem to phase them. Um, these dead all wanting to climb in bed with or having a life, you know, congregating outside the door. Um, Sigrid getting up from her coffin and wanting to climb in bed with, you know, they're not, they're not, there's a, you know, Gudrid um is probably very comfortable with this. That yeah, my if someone told me your husband, who's dead over there and been dead all night, wants to talk to you, um I wouldn't respond the way so Gudrid in this translation says, after Thorstein said, You can decide what to do, she said, It may be that this, this wonderful thing, has regard to certain matters which are afterwards to be had in memory, and I hope that God's keeping will test upon me, and I will, with God's grace, undertake the risk and go to him and know what he will say, for I shall not be able to escape if harm must happen to me. I am far from wishing that he should go elsewhere. I suspect, moreover, that the matter will be a pressing one. So we get a little bit of her sort of what you were talking about, trying to work through these belief systems and then this moment, you know. Um, but she said she's going to, and it's funny how she says, God's grace, undertake the risk to go to him. And she's like, even if he says that something bad's gonna happen to me, I can't escape that. So she's she's got the Christian God's grace belief going on with the Norse or the Celtic belief and not avoiding your fate.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:52

And not, you know what I mean? Yeah. Um so then Thorstein says, kind of tells, talks about the difficulties in bearing, because they're having to deal with bodies, but he says, and I'll just finish this and then we can fin talk. Okay. Is that okay?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:10

Um let's see. Then Gudrid went and saw Thorstein. He appeared to her as if shedding tears. So we don't know if she's seeing spiritual Thorstein or the I guess it's the drag or the revenant.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:27

That he's shedding tears or she's shedding tears.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:29

That he's shedding tears. He spake in her ear in a low voice certain words which she alone might know, but that this he said so that everyone heard, that those men would be blessed who held the truth faith, and that all salvation and mercy accompanied it.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:46

Um this is coming from Eric the Red saga. So this is what you're saying is actually it's in the Eric the Red saga.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:55

In the Eric the Red saga, the one that was translated in 1800s, which definitely has more of the Christian buzzwords in it.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:05

Um, but then it says Thornstein the dead says there's a no-good custom which has prevailed here in Greenland since Christianity came to bury men in unconsecrated ground with few religious rites over them. I wish for myself and for those other men who have died to be taken to the church. But for Garth, I wished him to be buried on a few burned on a funeral pile as soon as may be, for he is the cause of all those ghosts which have been among us this winter. Um Thorstein spake to Gudrid also about her own state, saying that her destiny would be a great one and begged her to beware of marrying Greenland men. He begged her also to pay over their property to the church, and then he sank down for a second time. It had been a custom in Greenland after Christianity was brought there to bury men in unconsecrated grounds on the farms where they died. An upright stake was placed over the body, and when the priest came afterwards to the place, then was the stake pulled out, consecrated water poured in, funeral service was held, though it might be long after the burial. Um, the bodies were taken to the church in Eric's Fjord, which is Eric's mom's church. Funeral services held by the priests, which there weren't any, so that's the translation thing. After that died Fiorborn, Gudrid's father. The whole property then went to Gudrid. Eric received her into his household and looked well after her stores.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:41

Yeah. So very yeah, my translation's very similar. And um she lost her love of her life husband. Well, first love of her life husband, then her dad. And um, I guess I don't know if she got to inherit that farm, if it was Eric the Black's half of like she just all that beautiful, bountiful, loving summer kinda ended again in death. You know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:13

And it makes me think of that card you held up in the beginning. Mm-hmm. This sunshine and this bounty marriage, and um it it's interesting how yes, that does happen. And even her dead husband, Thornstein, said you'll get married again. And yeah, those moments are gonna come in your life, but you're also gonna have this other card, unfortunately. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:37

So there's a lot of cards in the deck.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:39

Speak to you, and you're gonna be a widow three times by the time you're 22. Um so again, it's kind of cool how um we see this intersection of these beliefs that follow Gudrid that she's gotta reckon with all the time, you know. And this is a a quote from um, I don't know what the but I'll find it. It says the Norse dead in their minds were not gone, um, which is different than Christianity in some respects. Yeah. But this is the fundamental thing modern readers miss when they encounter the saga accounts of the dead sitting up and speaking. Um, this is from I mentioned her before, from Helga Cress. No. Sorry, let me just make sure I have her. Oh, from um Davidson, The Road to Hell 1943. Okay. Um We read it as supernatural. They did not, the idea of the dead sitting up and speaking. The dead were still present, still obligated, still capable of unfinished business. To bury someone was not the end to a relationship, it was to renegotiate it.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:06

Oh, interesting. That's renegotiate a relationship. Okay, yeah, because that's what I feel like they do.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:17

It speaks sort of to their belief we talked about before of the shape-shifting abilities. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:25

And and even in your folklore, your Norse folklore, you had uh people going down to the other, going north. I guess they walk north to the other the place of death and try to get into hell, hell heaven all.

unknown 1:24:42

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:42

Whatever hail is, and they try to get one of the gods back out. I mean, it is a you can't like the word negotiation is interesting because it is like they are always negotiating the Norse religion and their uh relationships with each other and their gods, and then they're dead, is a negotiating transactional relationship where they do believe the dead can it is, it's a constant renegotiation of a relationship where it's maybe it turns into something different where it turns from a a loved one to now someone you have to make sure they don't come back and haunt you. So you gotta do all the right things, you know. As much as you love them and you want to have it's a renegotiated relationship where maybe it's not going to be a positive real you know, thing that you want to have.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:36

Yeah, because there are stories of um in Iceland someone taking over land that had unhappy dead in it, and he had to negotiate with those spirits to be able to stay in his house. Um Yeah. Yeah. And so you have you have right there, they've got the dead bodies laid out, and they're so in the middle of uh a new belief systems they don't know what to do with them. So one guy's gonna get the pagan burial, but Thorstein wants to be you know, the Christian burial. But either way, he's still a dead man sitting up finishing business with Gudrid.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:22

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:23

You know? So she gets, like you said, she gets uh a seer, uh she gets a a seer in the first prophecy we talked about with the Volva lady. Now the second one is with a Christian man, her husband, and they're telling her exact essentially the same fate.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:43

It is a positive, a positive uh future. There's no warning of you're on the wrong path or or scary looming doom, or it's all very positive and as Christianized as some of them sound, it sounds like you will go on a journey, you'll have a church, and or just whatever. It's they're both a a sorceress woman and a Christian man going to the other side of whatever you want to call it, right? Life, death, world, spirits, veils, whatever. You know, channeling or coming through to from the other side to tell her comf I think comfort her, give her comfort in both these things. Um, in one case she just landed on this new land and it was kind of scary, and her dad was off not agreeing with it, and she told her, you know, you're gonna find love, and um, and then in this case, the love of her life is dying, and she's just witnessed all these wild things, and he's telling her, You're gonna find love, and and Christianity. is you're you know you're doing the right thing I think in every in every contact or I don't know what in every in every time I've sought any kind of comfort from the other side it seems like the message I always would get is um you're you're doing great you know it's like like that's the thing that I think most people just want to hear from somewhere some source somewhere is like am I doing am I where I'm supposed to be am I doing the thing I'm supposed to be doing and to hear that gives you power and motivation propels you forward in your life you know so yes in her journey that is perfect because she's gonna need that um and that's what that the thing that I that hit me the most about what we were talking about before in this story with Gudrid is the fact that like here she is standing there with the dead and her dad's gonna die and she's in this crowded hellscape of the living and dead and a pole axe being shoved into a corpse and and all this stuff but then just then she just has to she keeps moving through all these sagas she just keeps traveling no matter what is thrown at her.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:36

Yeah so I mean that's I to me she's kind of a hero in that sense.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:43

She's and it's a it's a reminder that in every life there is a a you are cared about you are you you are cared about by bigger things and mystical things and like it's you are an important person. She's just one little Viking woman in this big world like we talked about last week there's stuff going on in Russia and this big huge pivotal moment in history and this little woman is has the universe and forces and everything still wanting to give her comfort and caring about her and I think that's true.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:28

I think anybody can has the right to feel that and be yeah in tune with that you know yeah I I I agree and then wherever she travels and um I um I guess that this this quote comes to mind real quick but um it was a scholar speaking on North Atlantic archaeology so finding her her spinning whirl you know in North America and all these archaeological sites that show prove Gujarat was there this small not even 20 years old what you're saying this what she thinks is insignificant has is still affecting us and he said um that conversion for these people he was this scholar was talking about it wasn't a switch being flipped it was more like two languages being spoken in the same house sometimes by the same person sometimes in the same sentence and I keep thinking about how that would have felt from the inside you've grown up with one understanding of what death is what the dead can do what you owe them and someone comes and says no that's not what death death is and you have to decide in the middle of grief which world you're living in.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:51

Yeah yeah where do you get your comfort and your mm-hmm yeah like what you said you had you have to decide in that moment yeah what are you gonna what what what propels you on your journey what propels you and keeps you going and and um it's always easier to choose the loving path you know or the well maybe not easier but it's and I love that Gudrid is not gonna throw away any of her tools like again she's got useful it's she's finding value in all these cross things you know anyway and my favorite thing is coming because in on the horizon that Iceland guy is heading her way to change her word. Woo we've got and he is a rock star her new husband is if you look at all the like the TikTok shorts and stuff for sure like they're and he's got the lineage to back him up so we'll talk about oh sorry a bird we're gonna talk about her second husband coming over the horizon next week right yeah yeah yes okay we did it okay anything last did you have a quote you wanted to read no I'm done no you had a quote I just said it in some word are you feeling good about I think her journey I can't believe we got all through that I know it's pretty good okay well okay come to our oh and we had so we're getting some nice email from people that we know and love so that's super fun some nice movements yeah so that's awesome people come to distaff podcast at gmail.com or thedstaffpodcast.com we have a website um and just comments are good even on YouTube I hope I think I've made it so you can comment on Spotify YouTube. I'm supposed to tell people to like it or thumbs up which I swore I would never ever say no I think yes because then we know if you like what we're doing and if not we'll change it. Well and it helps us get in front of more people I guess the more uh interaction with people the more they put us in front of other people so okay well good that's important yeah all right because no you have free will but you might want to hear our wisdom it might be important to you it might someday you may be faced with a a weird situation who knows yes thanks Ken thank you it does Sarah we did it together okay