Pack That Ship Up: The Magic and Science of Viking Travel. S2:E9

In this episode we talk about Viking Travel. Gudrid and the Greenlanders are preparing to sail west. What boats will they use, how much food, clothing, and supplies should they bring? And yes, what type of magic can come along? This is a fun one!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:14

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

I need like a boom manager or something.

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Is it just Oh, it's fancy though.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

All right. Oh shit. Oh shoot. Sorry. You wanna just start?

SPEAKER_00 0:56

No. Not with you doing that, I don't think we should start.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

Just talk amongst yourselves. Okay. All right.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Is it on?

SPEAKER_02 1:17

Yes. Okay. Can you hear me? No?

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Yeah, I can hear you.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

All right. Your hair is so cute and wavy.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

Thank you. Okay. We are trying new things. I want to show you my grateful dead beanie.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

Oh, how cute. Or Christian.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

It looks a little scary. How cute. But I tried that new Intarja. And also a duplicate stitch where you do it over. It looks a little scary.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

That's puffy. That's cute. Is that for his wedding?

SPEAKER_02 2:03

Well, I owed it to him from Christmas, so he wanted the dancing bears on his hat. That's pretty cute.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

Okay. Okay. Well, welcome to the staff podcast. Um, today we're talking about hopefully the same thing we researched. Kind of?

SPEAKER_02 2:25

Yeah, I think we always get there. I think we're ready. Yeah. Do you feel like you're ready? Did you do um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:35

Yes. Um, one thing I found that was funny: there's this woman. Have you ever heard of Nancy Marie Brown? Have you ever come across her in research and stuff?

SPEAKER_02 2:45

Not that I know of, but I'm I'm not all-knowing Odin.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

Yes. She's written one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine books on this subject. One of the books. Wow, then I'm a loser. Well. Well, I just discovered her this week. So one of the books is Saga, the Saga of Gudrid the Far Travel. Oh. One is Ivory Vikings, The Mystery of the Most Famous Tressmen in the World and Women Who Made Them. She did the The Real Valkyrie. The Hidden Historical. She's just like, she's got.

SPEAKER_02 3:23

I actually am reading her Valkyrie book right now. Is it her newest one?

SPEAKER_00 3:28

It's 2021. Oh. She has looking for the hidden folk, how Iceland's elves can save the earth. Anyway, so she's she's prolific in, I would say. But in this one, I was reading one of her blogs for this for today, and she her first sentence is the Icelandic name Snori, which I admit I cannot properly pronounce, seems to follow me about. So yay!

SPEAKER_02 3:57

Yay! I think I knew we are friends with her. What's that? I knew we'd be friends with her. Yes, right. Her rabbit holes sound familiar. I know. She's I'll have to read some. Maybe we'll have to interview her.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

I would love that. And she did um what I was reading about is her just her blog about ship, ship, re not reincarnation. Oh my gosh, I'm so out of it today. Replica reenactment. No, like actual. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:31

Which one was she involved with?

SPEAKER_00 4:34

She says she never will actually get on a Viking ship.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

But the one she's talking about is the Snori that was out. They sailed from Greenland to Maine or, you know, Vinland. Yeah. Um, a guy named Rob. I will talk about him. Rob Stevens. And so he boat the boat snorri is a rep is a is a crawl. What is that? Or nar. The type of boat that Guder would have taken to Benland. So anyway, yeah. Was so grateful, like, okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:19

Wow, so I bet oh, there's so much to read about. I love this planet right now for some reasons. But that there's we can just read and read and read and read about anything we want, learn about it, think about it. It's really cool.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. As well enjoy the good since we're suffering through the bad. Yeah. A lot of data center things are wild.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

I know. I know. But it it I hope they can figure out a way to make them work with humans.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

Or yeah, if that's that's what they're really for.

unknown 6:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

Do you know they're closing the CERN down? They are? Uh-huh. For maintenance, but it'll be closed for four years.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

Don't they do that all the time?

SPEAKER_02 6:19

Yeah, it's probably to have a big party or something.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

How long is it gonna be closed for?

SPEAKER_02 6:25

Four years.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

Till 2030. Hmm. Okay. Convenience. Okay. Okay. All right. Anyway, another podcast. Yes. Oh, okay. Just in time, my non-guys here. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:45

So today we're we are packing the ship, right? Mm-hmm. We're talking about all things ships and what they would take and how you would do it, right?

SPEAKER_00 6:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:59

Or what else are we talking about?

SPEAKER_00 7:00

That's what that's what I think. I thought it was pretty interesting. There's a little magic thrown in there. Yeah. Yeah, but tell me, tell me you start. I want you to do. How'd you do it? Are you sure? Because I talked a lot last time. No, when I edited it, it was all my voice. Oh.

SPEAKER_02 7:23

Um, okay, well, I'll start with. So we have Gudrid, just married to Thor Finn Carcefne, who rolled into Greenland right before winter with his 80 men, which if he's if he's a merchant, he would be in the Knar ships, K-N-A-R-R. And if he had 80 men, that's probably two ships or three. Two would be kind of pushing it, but maybe three ships that he brought in there with him.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

Yeah, depending on sizes. Yeah. Knar is 50 feet. It was known as like the semi-truck of the Viking ships. It wasn't your long, sleek warrior boats, but was uh 50 feet wide or 50 feet long.

SPEAKER_02 8:08

I don't think I have my measurements, but um they just did a reconstruction of they haven't been able to find an actual the biggest one yet because in the burials, I guess Earth flattens them down, so anytime they tried to replicate it, it comes off wonky. Oh so recently um these are a group of Odyssey videos on YouTube. Um they did replicate, replicate, but also reinterpreted um Gudrid and Thornstein's voyage. They recreate try to reimagine their ship, see how it's built, see if it was possible to get North America, which they confirmed that it was. So um pretty big, pretty heavy ship. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 9:04

Yeah. Um it's huge, I think. I should we get the dimensions?

SPEAKER_02 9:11

I I started earlier um I got 50 feet, and then I and my brain, I don't know what feet are, but it's big. It fits like 35 people. Um but um so I'm gonna start with with Neil Price's comment on, and we need to bring in some women commentators. Maybe I'll put his he's a great commentator though. But he says about this voyage that Thorfinn and Gudrid are about to undertake is he says in the popular imagination today, the Vinland voyages are primarily associated with Leif Ericsson, Leif the Lucky. But in both sagas, it is clear that the main Norse explorers were the married couple, Thornfinn Carsephne and Gudrid Thjornbarn daughter. So no one is disputing that anymore, that she actually went there. Don't you love that?

SPEAKER_00 10:13

Yeah. Cause it was. I mean, a lot of this, a lot of it was just disputed that that even happened. A lot of people don't know that Vikings were the first uh Europeans or whatever on the continent. Yeah. I mean, we're I'm old and I'm not that old where history hasn't it's exciting that it's changed that much from what we learned in school to what's back, you know.

SPEAKER_02 10:43

And I love how in all these the story we're telling at this stage in our life, the archaeology has caught up with the scholarship and has caught up with the sagas, has caught up with all this other stuff. So we we're confirming dates, we're confirming that yes, people were there, and um it's pretty it's an exciting time to be storytellers and historians.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

Yeah, and any time now when you read, well, historians disagree, or well, it you know, any the word debunk or anything like that, you don't, it doesn't scare you off as quickly because it's I and I know it's now because I'm paying attention to it, right? It's not like I'm discovering something new, it's just now I'm paying attention to it. But yeah, it just seems like you don't have to be so fearful of some scientists' opinion that it's impossible. Or just like we were talking about how they said there could be no Viking women warriors, because they couldn't in their mind imagine how that could work, even though they eat the proof, the digs, the findings were female warriors. Like, yeah, you know, so it's it just opens your mind up to so many possibilities and to get excited about things and not shut things down so quick and never kind of thing, you know.

SPEAKER_02 12:14

So and I love the story of the woman that actually um found Lonzo Meadows, which is the the area that Leaf found in in uh Newfoundland, and people were disputing it, and she says, I think this is a Viking settlement, I really do. And she said she had to battle with her peers to get them to believe her. Um, but that's now it's a verified documented site. That's where Gudrid and um Thornfin and their group, you know, made their base camp as they did further explanation explorations for years into the North America. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

So it's interesting how um so that one town, Log B Log Logabart over in Estonia or in the, you know, on the other side. Yeah. Finally had the they talk about how they found that village. And it wasn't, it's not like they dig something and something pops up and it's holy it's proven, we know it now. You know, it's it takes time. Maybe they find one piece of fabric and then they study that and then they dig. It's just a long process where I don't know, it's just open to a lot of probably argument and ideas and theories, and so it would take longer to come to the conclusion that it is real, but it's just yeah, cool. In another life, I would like to go be on a dig somewhere. I think that would be cool.

SPEAKER_02 13:48

Me too. And and um that's why I'm saying there's a lot of a lot of raunchiness in this world, but there's a lot of really cool things that as a little girl, how would I, you know, all these questions you wondered in history classes, now we're getting at least a bigger picture about it, you know? And and what I love about it is still imagination is required and creativity is required in history and in writing about people's lives and all that. It's still a requirement that you feel to stretch your brain that way.

SPEAKER_00 14:29

Right. They try to make the word speculation be a dirty word, and it's not, I think it's a fabulous word, you know. Yeah, it's even like in our media or government or anything will withhold information because of you might speculate, you know. It's like, no, let people speculate. We can handle, I don't know.

unknown 14:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

So this is this is cool to be yeah, yeah. This week was cool to read about all this and how every single thing, well, we think they have this on board, but it hasn't been found. But okay, that's fine. Let yourself they probably did have dried fish on board, you know. It's okay to say that, you know.

SPEAKER_02 15:08

You know, it's just yeah, and then and then it's um if you don't do that, if you don't try to fill in their world, that's what storytelling is. You won't you won't get to your next answer, you know. You won't even be open to oh, maybe that is a piece of fabric that you know belongs to a woman as opposed to something else. So yeah, it's a fun adventure. So thank you for joining us on it. So today we are no, no, not interrupted. Let's see. So right now we've got Gudrid, Carcel, Carl, Sephni. We know we have two merchant ships. We know we have 80 men that he brought with him, 35 people usually per ship. Um, I don't know if all 80 went on this adventure with them or not. We're not do we know how many ships they they had to pack to get ready?

SPEAKER_00 16:07

That they're so do we need to back up? So we left off where she's marrying Carl Sneffy, and they're getting excited to get on this. We talked about all that, right?

SPEAKER_02 16:19

Getting we talked about Vinland and kind of how they knew about that it was there because Leaf had discovered it. Um we kind of had talked about, I think we talked about Freitas and the people that were gonna be going with them. Um we talked about how they sat in the longhouse all winter and kind of planned things out because these aren't just when you look at the packing list that we've kind of discovered for this adventure, you're not, it takes a year long of basically Greenlanders were already prepping because they were surviving. So they had lots of stores of things. They were used to living that way. Um, but it kind of seems overwhelming when I see it in a list form of everything Gujard had to pack into that knar and and keep it um keep it so they could live on the other side of it. It's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

So yeah, so they the what I read in her blog, she's saying they think there were three ships that Carl Snappy had. Um possibly they got um it depends on which saga, but another boat may have come from Gudrud's dad, right? His Mercury, which it would have been like this, a big f wider bottom. The measurements I got, it's 54 feet long, 15 feet across. So 15 feet is like I don't know, the size of a garage, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 18:02

Yeah. But I'm gonna show you a um I'm gonna show just a crosshatch picture, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

Yeah, like a normal size living room or family room, maybe is about 15 feet. Oh, cool, Kim.

SPEAKER_02 18:22

So this is kind of what it would look like. It's hollowed out, but so yeah, so yeah, like a living room kinda. Um look how flat.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

Yes, a big deep rudder thing.

SPEAKER_02 18:41

It's a flat bottomed keel. Um, and we can talk about we can go into detail about how they built it, but the basics are um they they're so here's your ship, and it's pretty low to the water, and it's built with overlapping um wood and iron bolts. So it's kind of and it's got a really cool ability to flex and bend with uh the waves. So a lot of people would describe it as sort of floating on the waves on a good day, I think. Um there were no cabins. Right. Crew slept on deck under woolen blankets or animal skins. Um, if far out to sea, they slept in place near coastlines. They often landed at night and sometimes pitched their tents on shore. Um, it was a I learned it's a cold and wet experience. They did not expect or have a goal to be dry ever. Um, so their their fabric that we'll talk about was made to be warmer even when it got wet. And all their food stuffs were stored in such a way that water didn't maybe enhance it at most, and we can talk about that. But um so I'm gonna stop doing that, but you continue with the description.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

Oh, well, I if you want to. It's just off the top of my head from what I was reading, just um the the reenactments that they did were he he described it as like you said, they're just constantly wet, just always wet. If you have the right wool, kind of then you will be wet, warm, warm, wet, you know. Yeah. Constantly wet. I mean, they must have been just pruned up and wet the whole time. And um they didn't have a cover, unless it you they said they could put a cover if they wanted to, usually when they were beached or when they were, you know, not traveling. They could have oars or their sail, depending on it. A lot of the movies you'll see that they put the shields up along the side where they hang their weapons. That wasn't always true because salt water was so hard on their, you know, they wouldn't do all the time. Mm-hmm. And then a lot of times the benches that they sat on could would Mike are usually gonna say this, would be where they could stow their some other goods, their clothing, food. Their food was in barrels. Is that true? Yeah, what you read? Yeah, um, it could be stowed in barrels and then the livestock. So you just picture it. They wouldn't do a fire on the boat, except one place said that they if they had to cook, they could have like a sand box on board that they would build the fire in or cook with a cauldron with uh they would have a cauldron for warm, but they didn't expect to eat warm food. No, and I mean we've got to remember that Viking travel wasn't. This is why this Vinland trip is so unique, is that this is a weird, unique trip they're going on, right?

SPEAKER_02 22:09

Yeah. Well, they're going to settle. They're they Leaf had a a house at least built for them or or a a setup where they could they perhaps didn't have to bring their big logging lodging poles and stuff, but still it's not like you know it's a Hilton at the other end. You've got to bring your you've got to live once you get there. You're settling. So a settler is different even than an explorer.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

Right.

SPEAKER_02 22:37

Um you're bringing women, you're bringing pregnant women. In this case, um, we know that Gudrid and Freitas, if not pregnant on the ship, they would give birth over in America. So um, so it's not just like let's it's not like what probably Lee Leaf and the boys are used to, you know, and even Carl Stephanie on his mark trading trips where you're kind of going lean, you know you're going to go to the next uh port city. There, it's a little different than that. But as you're mentioning, when I think of they went all the way across the Atlantic to America, I'm thinking four months. But how many days was it on a good day from Greenland to Did you do you know that exact number? I do. I'm being a teak in the teacher mode.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

I was as you were saying that, I was realized I think two weeks.

SPEAKER_02 23:38

On a good, if everything's well, it could be five days from Greenland. And you can optimally keep the coastline in your sights. You'll, you know, most of them sail north up Greenland's coast, and then it's a three-day, four-day at most out in the open water to um Newfoundland.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:04

So it's it's obviously admirable in a lot of ways because you're going through Iceberg Alley, you're up in the north, you know, it's not easy.

SPEAKER_00 24:14

Right.

SPEAKER_02 24:15

But it's also not that's probably why the animals could survive. They're they're doing a five-day um getting everything over their trip.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

Yeah. And a lot of the they don't talk about it, but I imagine there may have been some coming and going back and forth. Yeah, there wouldn't have to be. Even in what in the saga, I think it's Eric the Red's saga. Um they talk about a man that goes with them that was well well versed in sorry, my alerts are going off. Well versed in Vinland already, or well-versed in exotic travel or something like that, where you get the idea that this was a big voyage, they were excited. But like you said, Leif had already been over there, established a winter camp, Thorvald had already been over there and died. Well, unless we're gonna in one saga. But the back and forth was pretty. I mean, maybe the big adventure was that they were going to settle it, not so much that they were going to ex Well, they were gonna explore it too.

SPEAKER_02 25:29

So I think that's I mean, because if you think about how Eric the Red was banished for like three years, he spent three years going back and forth from Ice, not really going back to Iceland because he couldn't, but like exploring the different fjords, mapping things out. Um, and so it it would be not right to think that Gudrid was the first group that you know they would know some stuff about what they were heading for.

SPEAKER_00 26:02

Similar to even Iceland and Greenland, that the people that get credited with discovering it were actually just the people that uh settled it, you know. Other people had been there and died there and yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:16

And uh yeah, it's a mobile group. And uh uh unlike the uh emigration stories you hear now where there's no return, they absolutely I think felt like they could return if they needed to, and the world was closer than they thought. And if it's only four or five days, that's how long I think it takes longer for them to get to Ireland from um Iceland than Greenland to North America possibly. Currents would make that yeah, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:53

So that's the packing for it is they're not just packing for a sea voyage, they're packing for settlement on the other end, which means they're bringing their their weaving tools, their cooking tools. If there really were 180 men that went, people, not just men, people that went, then or 160, then you have supplies for all them, all those people, the livestock. We know they bring a big bowl. So the the hustle bustle, the excitement of getting ready for this trip is just what I loved. Always, like I say, my favorite part of any nonfiction book is the preparation for whatever journey your expedition they're about to go on.

SPEAKER_02 27:41

I love it. And um, so I made a list or tried to make a list. If I were Gudrid, what I would need to do to put on my list. Okay. But what did you do? No, tell me which what did you what did you as Gudred put on your list? Okay. Well, and I had some help from different sources, but um a canar carries 20 to 30 people-ish plus 20 tons of cargo. Um so provisions for the voyage, and you have to consider three to five weeks because of even though it's five days on a good day, um it you know, things bad things happen. So and tell and we can cut this out if it's too boring. But let me just tell you and see how overwhelming this would be.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:41

So so you're saying how many pe how many people?

SPEAKER_00 28:45

80-ish probably anywhere from 80 to 160 is what they're guessing at.

unknown 28:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

Three boats. Three boats. Um, assuming one's for sure at least two probably are these big old NAR ships. Maybe one, you know, maybe a smaller ship or two 100 people, maybe roughly, say.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

Okay. So this is the these are the provisions for the voyage. Okay. Now, this is all again speculation, but I had a fun nerdy time. So you would need dried stock fish, which is your primary protein, cod haddock, heavily salted and dried. You'd need an unleavened rye or barley bread bread dried hard, which a lot of people call hard tack or flatbread. So think about this. They're not just hanging out all winter in the longhouse, they're trying to pull all this together for in like four months, right?

SPEAKER_00 29:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:56

Uh, you need dried peas and beans. Um, it's good because it's high calorie, cooked as porridge underway, dried berries and fruit for vitamin C source, ale and mead. We talked about how hard that is to make. Um, and those are stored in barrels sealed with pitch. So they had to make the barrels, get the pitch, uh, rendered lard and tallow, cooking fat used for fuel and weatherproofing. This is just the voyage. And then their fermented dairy, the skier, skier yogurt. Yes, right. Um, that would be soured in wooden barrels, and it's supposedly very shelf stable. Um, smoked mutton and lamb, salted and smoked curd packed in barrels, oats and barley grain, multiple sacks of that, salt, a very large quantity, um, fresh water casks, multiple large barrels, honey, uh sweetener, preservative, minor wound treatment, which we know in Greenland honey was kind of scarce. Um, so that's just to get you on the voyage. And think about these open bod, open-bodied ships. There's nowhere dry.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

Right.

SPEAKER_02 31:15

So then you'd pack probably below all this, because you wouldn't need it during the voyage, uh, grain seed stocks, because you're taking animals, so you've got to feed them. Um, a bulk of dried fish for the first year until a hunting-fishing rhythm is established.

SPEAKER_00 31:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:36

Dried mushrooms and herbs, medicinal and culinary, juniper, angelica, and yarrow, which, if you're just planning this trip in December, I guess you're gonna wait. I think they left in June. So they'd have the spring probably to pack everything up.

SPEAKER_00 31:53

And the one good thing they have with both sagas, the only one really consistent thing is that leaf in both sagas had been there first. They have a little bit of data on what's they know they'll find self self-sowing wheat, but they don't know how they don't they know they'll find they think are grapes. Um they kind of know what they have, but but but you're right. We don't know they don't know anything else. They know they'll have those, right?

SPEAKER_02 32:27

Yes, and and you're right. There is um Leif even knew at the site that there were peat bogs there where they could uh smite or whatever it is, make the iron to make nails. So they they he knew a lot about it, you're right. So that would make it a lot easier. Um so you'd need hay for the livestock during the crossing, which can't get go bad in your open, open decked bulk. But laundry cheeses, you'd want hard aged variety, wax sealed salt. You would need a bulk supply for this is all for the settlement. 200 kill pounds plus fish preservation meat curing, smoked meats and bulk packed in brine barrels, sheep, goat, and horse meat, live animals, um, which you need cows. I can tell you the exact times, but we'll just keep it general. Butter in barrels, salt-packed butter, extremely self-shaped.

SPEAKER_00 33:30

Well, no, to say the livestock.

SPEAKER_02 33:32

Okay, but it's nerdy too. I like this. Is it chickens and so livestock would be on board, would be cattle, which would be Norse shorthorn, um small hardy breed, um, compact, cold-tolerant cattle that produced modest but reliable milk. Um, archaeology at the Greenland settlements in North Atlantic said cattle were kept in that harsh climate. So Leaf would have known his cattle made it. Um, Lanso Meadow has milder summers and abundant grass, just like you're saying. So a single cow produced three to five liters daily would generate meaningful surplus. If the cows made it.

SPEAKER_00 34:22

If the cows made it.

SPEAKER_02 34:24

Then you need, and so for cows, what they're gonna give you is milk, butter, cheese, yogurt, uh, meat, hide for leather, bone for tools, and they could be work animals.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

And they have one other purpose, we'll find out later.

SPEAKER_02 34:38

Oh. The bowl. Oh, the bowl. We can't forget the bowl. Can be used for defense, too, yeah. Yeah, you're right. Then there were goats, hardier, cheaper, versatile, alternative cattle. Um, Norse household kept both. It can survive on rougher forage than a cow needs less space on the ship and produces proportionally excellent milk for its side. It makes good cheese. For three-year expeditions where animals had to survive the crossing and establish them in unknown territory. Goats were considered an insurance policy. And they would do milk, cheese, meat, hide. And then they had their sheep because they were going to knit. Yeah, they had to have their wool. Um, double coat, like you're talking about, has the coarse outer layer, the tog, and the fine inner layer that can be separated and spun differently. And it produces two different types of yarn from one animal, like you said, a waterproof outer garment and a fine inner garment wool. Um if the woolen items were being traded with Skrellings, which was their names for the indigenous people, they might meet. Um, she may have already been at the settlement from Leaf's expedition. Um, wool cloth was one of Iceland's and Greenland's um primary export goods. The women of the expedition would have been shearing, carting, spinning, and weaving continuously throughout their three-year stay. So also, this this would make cords, their guts would make cords for sutures and rope and all that kind of stuff, and the sail cloth, which is wad mall. That's that fancy. They likely had horses because they were going there to do timber harvesting. Um, so they likely had that, they possibly brought pigs with them. Um a breeding pair brought on the voyage could establish a small herd within a year. Lard was critically important as cooking fat, waterproofing material, and lamp fuel. They had their dogs, they had their kitty cats, of course. Um, so anyway, those are the animals.

SPEAKER_00 37:05

Um so we know the indigenous people well, maybe I'm spoiler alert, but I'm just wondering how much of this from them was introduced into this continent. We know that the cow, the whole, was a shock to the people. The audience. So that means cattle. I don't know. It's just interesting to think how much when they did leave, eventually, did they leave behind or what happened in those three years, you know?

SPEAKER_02 37:42

I think they definitely would have left all this the I mean, I know even in like the Montana areas, you can still find the dumb European um fodder that all the pioneers planted that mess with the indigenous plants.

SPEAKER_00 37:59

Yes, right.

SPEAKER_02 38:00

There they're still there. Um yeah, that's a such a good point. And then you wonder the indigenous folks the cattle would have left behind if they ran away. Yeah. They wouldn't bring their cattle home. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:21

So it's interesting. And horses, you know, we know the Spanish brought the horses on, you know, southernly horses were introduced. Unless I'm wrong. I thought they're from Spain. But anyway, it's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 38:37

Yeah, and later um scholars and academics and historians really believe that the trade started with humans started happening both ways, so that you would start seeing in Iceland and Greenland some plants that were brought over back home from North America and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 38:55

And that's right. In in the saga, there is one little reference to an already established contact with the indigenous people in North America, with Irish, Ireland, even that they had had sailed over and witnessed the druids, you know.

SPEAKER_02 39:14

Yes, that's right. Like it wasn't a surprise to them that these people kept popping up. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_00 39:21

So we were getting inside of ourselves, but this is what we're we had to look forward to in the Vinland.

SPEAKER_02 39:26

But it is nice to imagine that they did she did have some kind of a heads up for casting for this to bring.

SPEAKER_00 39:34

If yes, because right, in both sagas, Leif had already been there and established something. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:46

But you think about the um part of managing a household then, like Bradley, Eric the Red's um household, is at a moment's notice being ready not only to provide for your own needs for the next winter, but also to send your your traders or your explorers out um to get ready for the next, you know. That's all.

SPEAKER_00 40:10

It will be a woman's job. That's the woman's job is to run home, the farm, the industry, the, you know, the preparations. It would have been a woman's job to be prepared for visitors and company, because status is that you're ready and you can, you know, feed them and clothe them. And yeah. So not mine, maybe it was kind of a natural thing for a woman who is running this land-based operation to then move it into a sea-based operation.

SPEAKER_02 40:45

Yeah. And and as we're learning, you know, women were actually kind of vital on the ships. So it's not like they and and as we know with Greenland, women of the settlements were regularly going up every summer to get the walrus. And um, so they they were good on land and sea.

SPEAKER_00 41:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:09

Um, their skills traveled.

SPEAKER_00 41:11

Um, were ravens, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 41:16

Oh. Yes, tell me about that. Other animals.

SPEAKER_00 41:21

There's just other Viking Norse sagas or stories where they would bring ravens with them to go find the part of navigation, even, which we're I guess we'll talk about next. Yeah. The ravens they could be used to let them go, and whichever way they went is which where land would be, or if they circle around and they come back, then it's very Noah's artic. Then um, they know they're not close to land. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:50

I mean, that's um that stems, and we could have a whole full-on conversation about Odin and the polar indigenous communities all circling there where they use birds and eagles and animals to help them see farther.

SPEAKER_00 42:09

Yeah, the navigation part was cool. Are you ready to talk about navigating a little bit?

SPEAKER_02 42:14

Okay, I'm just gonna give this list and overwhelm you.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

Oh, are you still on your list?

SPEAKER_02 42:20

Oh I'm gonna I'm gonna read it off for three minutes. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 42:25

I want you to figure out keep going.

SPEAKER_02 42:27

I want you to figure out how you're gonna pack it. Okay, so here we are at the ships. Um, so you need, in addition to the food, you need timber harvesting tools. So you need six to eight broad axes, you need 12 iron wedges, four adsies, which squares timber. Um, you need augers and bore bits for drilling holes for pegs and joints, because the ship again requires this re what's the word, restoration or reimagination of the canar ship that this Draken group did out of Norway. They made 10,000 iron bolts by hand.

SPEAKER_00 43:10

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 43:12

Um, for one ship. Whittling knife, every person carries one as one does. Ox or a horse drag harness for hauling the fell tumber to the shore, uh, two frame saws for plank cutting, ten hand axes, four to six wooden malls, four draw knives, chisels of various sizes, four to six whetstones, um, heavy hemp ropes in long coils. Um, someone said you needed like 140 miles of rope for the rigging for this. Bark scrapers. You need thousands of iron nails, um, portable bellows for on site tool repair. So you have to stoke up your fires, charcoal and sacks, three to four shovels and spades. Six to eight wooden buckets, knotted rope for measuring cords, surveying and layout, six hammers, iron stock. You need raw iron to forge new tools, tongs and forge tools, picks and mattox, pulleys and tackle blocks for lifting the heavy timber, roofing turf tools to make more longhouses. So they thought of here's everything. So for ship supply and navigation, you need two of those huge wool sails you were talking about the other day. One wool, one uh woven wad mall wool, and you need a full replacement sail. So you can't be dumb about it.

SPEAKER_00 44:43

But you're required to have two.

SPEAKER_02 44:46

Yeah. You need pitch pitch and tar and barrels for caulking and hole maintenance because that's what held it together. Six replacement oars in case Olaf drops his. You need your sundial or sunstone, a crystal for overcast navigation, which I learned that calcite was used for that on overcast days. That's our show and tell. Um, I'm almost done. No, I love it. You need a steering or a spare, because they only had one rudder which steered and it was on the side of the ship. Square rigging ropes and made out of walrus white, walrus hide and hemm for shrouds, halyards, and stays. You need a tallow and ounce animal fat for waterproofing hole planks, ropes and leathers. You need balers and hand pumps, constant build work because you're in an open boat. Um, you need a lead line and a depth rote for sounding out shallow waters. You needed four plus lanterns made of iron for the night watch.

unknown 46:00

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 46:01

So here's the women's clothing. That's all I cared about for three years. You need your heavy, two to three heavy wool cloaks, which is your primary outer layer, four to five wool tunics per person layered under the cloaks, three to four sets of linen undergarments worn next to the skin, two to three um apron dresses that we've talked about. That goes over your linen shift, three pairs of leather shoots or boots per person, um, three pairs of mittens, wool and fur, two pairs of working gloves. So you're because everyone's in charge of the rigging. Um, linen cloth and bolts for undergarment, bandaging, general textile use. Think of trying to keep all this dry. Um then both men and women wore three pairs of wool trousers with the leg wraps, um, fur-lined overcoats. Mmm. That would be cozy. Wool socks, um, leg wrappings, wool hats and hoods, two per person, extra wad mall wool in bulk. So you've got to make repairs, yeah. Leather aprons to forge and axe work. So women were forging, they were axe. I mean, yeah. Then once you then you need all your textile. Is this boring? No, this is fascinating. Then you need, so you're packing all this, then you need your textile and domestic tools. You need an upright loom, you need your carding combs, your threads, your linen and wool, you need your corn stones, which up two of them is your rotary handmill, grinding, grinding your grain to flour, frying pans and spits, tallow candles in bulk, spindle whorls made out of bone or stone, fifty plus needles made of bone and iron, shears, iron, two to three shearings, two to three cauldrons, you need a butter churn, you need oil lamps. And think about if you got cows and goats, you've got to go down there in rough seas and milk them every day.

SPEAKER_00 48:17

Yeah, and scoop out their poo.

SPEAKER_02 48:19

And make the dumb butter and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 48:21

It probably was a mess.

SPEAKER_02 48:23

Oh. Disgusting. Yeah. So then you need your medicine kit, linen bandaging in bulk for axe injuries are common. Yarrow herb, which we love, just staunch bleeding, um, angelica root, willow bark, honey, mugwort, combs, juniper berries, bone needles, and gut thread, midwifery kit, midwifery kit, soap, uh, lye soap cakes, iron lancet. I mean, already it's not like they're going to Amazon. I know. And this has to have a box of world. I know. So then they need weapons, and everybody had to have a set of weapons, and some people were even fined if they did got on board with no weapons. Wow. So everyone had to have an iron sword, one or two for each adult. Every adult had to have a round shield, every adult had to have four to six U longbows for hunting and defense. Everyone had two to three sets of chain mail. Um, everyone had a single backup, which were slings and stones, which they just used, one spear per adult, one huge knife, um, a hundred arrows, two to three iron helmets. So Gudrid would have had this.

SPEAKER_00 49:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:54

That's cool. And knew how to use it.

SPEAKER_00 49:57

Knew how to use it. Wow. So training as a little kid was a serious thing.

SPEAKER_02 50:04

Yes, for even because they knew that um contact with other I mean, that's what happens. Vikings contact people. Then they even thought about the trading goods. So they brought enough of the red cloth, the wad mall that they knew most indigenous people loved for some reason. Milk and dairy gifts, iron knives, um, silver hack silver, so little pieces of silver, beads, iron tools, glass beads. Okay, almost done. Then you're hunting, fishing, and trapping, fishing nets out of hemp, two to three large of them, fish traps, wicker for eel and small fish, lake traps, iron snares for small game rabbit, marten, and beaver, smoking rat components, iron hooks and chain gain preservation. These are not cavemen.

SPEAKER_00 51:00

No.

SPEAKER_02 51:01

This is a thousand AD.

SPEAKER_00 51:03

Right. Um, our pioneers didn't pack much up. You could be listening to Pioneer in 1800s.

SPEAKER_02 51:10

And they wouldn't have as much as these guys have.

SPEAKER_00 51:13

Right.

SPEAKER_02 51:14

Um, and they made it all themselves.

SPEAKER_00 51:18

It's not like it's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 51:20

Oh, isn't that interesting? Yeah. So they had fishing lines and hooks, 50 plus hand lines and set lines, bulk iron hooks, hunting dogs, two to four dogs, tracking and flushing game, skinning and hide tools. And the last thing I have on the list are ritual and spiritual items, usually Thor's hammer amulets, which can be at their time blended with the cross, bone and antler dice, a Volva staff. Um, when I checked on the jobs on board, there was always a Volva.

SPEAKER_00 51:54

Yes, I read that too.

SPEAKER_02 51:55

And then musical instruments, rune sticks um for tallying logs, um, the henethful game board, strategic board game, and women's keys and rings.

SPEAKER_00 52:10

So that is fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 52:13

How the heck are they gonna get them on that thing? Feed the animals, feed and then, and then if you look at how hard those the ships were to manage, it's not like they have a button to push to make the sail go up and down.

SPEAKER_00 52:30

No. So anyway, what do you think about me to use the sail and how the it's the the skill set on these people is amazing.

SPEAKER_02 52:41

I know. And I guess Greenlanders, with all the archaeological digs, they do find lots of runes, but it was mostly for counting things. They were mostly counting things, which kind of shows that they were good at logistics. Yeah, and trading organized. Yeah, they're definitely organized. Yeah, because people are gonna die if you peck that barrel wrong. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 53:09

You lose you lose your fresh water, even on a five-day trip, no fresh water, you're all done. Yeah, you're done. They had need, they took mead with them a lot to drink, you know, in lieu of fresh water, but um yeah, just it's exciting. It's it's the lot the logistics are always exciting to me, too, how they did it.

SPEAKER_02 53:34

And and you think about you mentioned those wooden boxes that they used um to sit on when they had the oars. Um, those are the boxes I believe show up in burials.

SPEAKER_01 53:46

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 53:46

Everyone seems to have an a box that would have their personal items.

SPEAKER_00 53:51

I read that they put the water and all the heavy stuff in the center of the boat that helps it not tip over. Um, but this man, again, who did this reenactment said that they tried it and they they got maybe 30 miles out or something. And they had support boats and you know, um, but the waves coming over just would literally beat them up, and they were all throwing up and just, you know, it was constantly wet, nothing stayed dry. It just um, if you guess if you're going in the summer and you know your weather enough to know you're gonna be okay, you can get there on good good weather. But there's no guarantee. It's just it's I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 54:43

It's just, I mean, what what strikes me in looking at these lists and and learning how the ships are built and learning how they navigate them and stuff is um they weren't going into it blind, but they also knew they're the odds of surviving are really not good.

SPEAKER_00 55:04

Yeah, they're not trying, there's no attempt at buoyancy once you fall out of the boat. They're in water and they've got hammers and I wondered about that.

SPEAKER_02 55:18

Because in all these reenactments or whatever, um, they have like in the Bering Strait, the deadliest catch guys. I love that show, but they have their safety suits.

SPEAKER_00 55:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:29

And even then you've got two minutes to survive.

SPEAKER_00 55:32

So yeah, this guy said he wasn't hypothermic, but the whole time he was near just about on the verge of hypothermia the whole time. It's just I don't know, and and the idea that so this is a uh a Christian boat, go uh boat full of mostly Christians, right? We're gonna assume. So going with that, but they had these, they I don't think they let go of their superstition, or at that point, maybe that's what they call it.

SPEAKER_02 56:06

Like you said, there was a Volva on boat on the That's what I want to talk about, because that's where Freitas and Gudrin on a ship together gets kind of interesting. Um because the stakes are so high, like half of the ships that would leave you knew weren't coming home.

SPEAKER_00 56:24

Right. I have five different magical practices. I'm sure you do too. Let's do that. That you would be part of this boy, part of a voyage like this. Okay. And again, um I don't know. Whatever. The uh would a Christian also allow this to still happen. I think we're saying yes, probably.

SPEAKER_02 56:51

I think um I I think it's like a syncretic S-Y-N-C-R-E-T-I-C practice where you're gonna take any helpful item. Edge your bets. Yes. That's what I think.

SPEAKER_00 57:05

And there were pagans that came on this trip. They aren't written very it's thr so Thorval, Thorall. He was a pagan and he was, and then when there's these two other pagan, a man and a woman. But anyway.

SPEAKER_02 57:20

Well, and Freida Freitas was decidedly, not decidedly, but in my mind, pagan. I don't think she followed after her mother.

SPEAKER_00 57:30

Right. Well, she's um, yeah, because we don't even know if Tordhild was her mom. Erica's definitely but she um okay, so you have your cedar rituals. So the Vola would enter a trance. There's also men that would do this, they have a different word. It's a word for wizard, um, using a staff to ride into the spirit world to secure a safe passage to kind of bargain for this trip. So this would happen before this voyage. So I imagine it happened, and someone someone did it, right? Um the Vard Loker, did you read about that? The war warding songs. I also thought it was Galder.

SPEAKER_02 58:15

It's a there's a name of a magic that uses voice and with the Well, that's what um they say that Gudrid sang at the Gudrid was equipped with that.

SPEAKER_00 58:27

So it's um high-pitched hypnotic chants performed by assistants to protect the shaman and communicate with spirits during the ritual. So, yes, that's kind of what Gudra did. So picture this your boat's packed, you're ready, and now you have to do these last-minute magic things to do, get on board. Which I think what do you want to say? You have, I feel like you have all this.

SPEAKER_02 58:50

No, I just spewed a bunch of stuff I like, and now I want to hear where you went. I want to hear I'm really interested in the spiritual baggage.

SPEAKER_00 59:00

Um, then weather manipulation was a thing back then.

SPEAKER_02 59:05

Yes, who knew? And we're good at it. Women were really good at it.

SPEAKER_00 59:11

So it was. It was the women, the cirruses were consulted to influence weather, summoning favorable winds or crafting sore storms to sink enemy ships.

SPEAKER_02 59:20

So well, because they could control, yeah, they could they could bargain with anybody. You're gonna bargain with the gods of the the waters. And if you think back to our first season, you know, how many hundreds of years later, six hundred years later, you'd have women accused of creating storms that killed the queen of whoever coming over and and her ships.

SPEAKER_00 59:51

Yeah. So they that that was a thing. Um, astral travel, again, it's it's similar, it sounds like to the cedar, but Vikings believed in projecting their huger. So their huger, remember that's your mind and soul, your inn inner part um for reconnaissance and shape shifting like into the animal, like into the whale to go and and see which is the best way to go or where the fair winds are. Um and then like ravens kind of sending those out. Right. And then runes and galder, so they had specific travel runes, um, are more common in later medieval Icelandic grimoires, but Vikings use so these travel runes. I'm sure they they did something like there's a rune rate ho that's for good travel. Um they they would have used them somehow, I don't know if they would have etched them on their boats. Um just kind of for like a good luck thing. Um, but also more. And then um Vikings used the again the the sun spells and carved runes to perform some kind of magic for protection.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:12

So And this is all before kind of like them um blessing or or getting the ship ready and everyone ready mentally, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:25

Spiritually, mentally, making sure all your you're you're covered as far as what gods were gonna be helping you, what spirits were gonna be protecting you. And um yeah, similar to saying a prayer before you go on a road trip, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:43

Yeah, and also I love the idea because you had there was one um god in particular over the sea that they would always that yeah. And um I read somewhere that if you were a Christian on that ship, in your mind you could easily relate it to that passage where the God spirit moves over the waters. So somehow they were able to justify there's a God spirit out there that I can still bargain with. Like it's okay to talk to Norn, you know, out on my ship or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:24

Yeah, there probably was a lot of mental uh gymnastics going on, you know, spiritual gymnastics going on.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:31

But to come because at that point you would just want help from where anywhere that it was gonna come from.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:36

Yeah, and if you think about how prepared they were in their earthly goods, they're gonna be that, and you know sailors are super superstitious, but your your spiritual practices are another type of armor that you wouldn't I would not mess with if I was going into the unknown.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:59

And I wonder in 1000 AD, how with the Christian church's idea, if they even had anything similar to that, if that was even part of the religion yet of protection and I think it's safe for travel.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:22

Just focus on Iceland and what you've talked about, how they come came to terms with it as you know, publicly we're gonna do this, but privately you can continue your own your own thing. I think they developed a like what you're saying, cognitive dissonance almost with those things. Um I read that navigational gifts of women were a blend of so the navigational gifts in in in addition to having your vulva on board, which she probably was one and the same, um, women would blend technical expertise and spiritual influence. While men primarily this is one source, primarily handled the physical tiller. Women's unique skills and textile magic and ritual were considered essential for a ship's survival.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:18

Awesome. And that's over how many different voyages on how many different ships. It must have it must have been very real to them, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:34

Um you're on the boat and the women are up front for sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:40

And going into trances or dresses, well, this like you mentioned, so here she is standing in front. These are some of the things she was doing up there. She was calming the seas, as you said. They communicate with spirits to calm the waves or predict um they did something called wind calling. So tell me if you already have this. No, you do your nose. Sagas describe um kings and vikings consulting women to change the wind so their fleets could sail favorably, like you're saying. Um, and the spirit songs, and then the practical gifts of guidance, women on a knar were often responsible for observing subtle signs of nature, such as the behavior of birds or color of the sea, sunstones, calcite crystals, um and the women that held were in charge of hanging on to these uh tools. Um And also what I find interesting you mentioned the animal and the shape shifting. I guess dolphins were considered um The hump, the shape shifting of women or the spirits of your your desire or your um grandmothers going ahead of you. And so one of these reenactants, they went through the path between the icebergs from those four days of just water and icebergs, and they talked about how bright and light it was and how many dolphins there were, or how many uh aquatic mammal life that was out there. And I'm thinking so you think of Gudrid standing on the prow of the ship trying to communicate with all of them, or you know, yeah, or read the wind, or um make sense of all that. Nobody thinking she's weird or anything. Like Gudred, go stand up there and figure it out. And um, and then you think of Freitas on that ship with her, who's not Christian, who is kind of like a Valkyrie lady, kind of rough and tough. And um I don't know, it just would be it would be very interesting if they got along or not.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:18

I wonder if she was the Volva for it, and that's why she was written so rotchily in the Christian. Oh, one doesn't acknowledge her, the other one just writes her as a terrible we'll tell her story, but she had choices choices were made, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:38

That would make a lot of sense, and you can see if this ship's trying to marry these two civilized these two Christianity and pagan, if you had both ladies on board, and you know, Gudrid, we know, can sing the right songs, maybe get Freitas into a trance or whatever, that would be really helpful.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:00

The other thing is that Gudrid had already has already experienced a shipwreck before. So whatever magic was helping them or not helping, if it was a boat full of Norse, well, in one, it's if she was married to that Torrier, if she had been married first to a Norse guy, it would have been pagan and they crashed or they shipwrecked. And then the other time she's with Thornstein, her new Christian husband, and they also shipwrecked. I don't know, I'm blending sagas, but I wonder what her.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:38

I do wonder trauma was yeah, what her trauma was. Uh-huh. Yeah, because in the first shipwreck, she lost her pagan foster mother. She lost the woman that brought her up in all those ways.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:56

Yeah, and maybe a husband, and then the other one, if you one saga is that she crashed. They she one saga says that they tried to do this journey, she and Thornstein and sailed around all summer aimlessly and then shipwrecked, and that's where he died. So I don't know. The I makes me think that she probably would have been open to all of this and probably know about it, maybe. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:28

I think she if she's a reckoning woman, you're gonna use your tools. I mean, I don't I think that if Carl Stefani had 80 such men, not all of them, very probably very few of them were Christian men if they were Viking merchant, Viking mariners, you know, that you'd have a good healthy blend and they wouldn't stand for the ceremonies not happening. Yeah. And let alone think about Gudrid, you have to appease the land spirits on the coast you're heading towards. Her ship sank right as they they couldn't get into the land, which means they didn't appease the spirits right.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:16

And if they were both, they wouldn't have taken the because you have to take the hull or the masthead off if it's shaped like anything scary like a dragon. Before you have to take that off so you don't scare away the land spirits. Yeah, so they have a whole bunch of the prep mental preparation, the spiritual preparation. You did that awesome job with the the material preparation to get ready to go.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:44

Yeah. And and then as we go, I want to hear where what's your interest in in the next steps that she's going on?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:54

Um, I think let's lay the foundation for Vinland. Let's talk about the land, Vinland, and what it was. Because first they go, they land pretty far up north where it's just all rocks. I think it's northern Canada.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:08

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:09

And then um I don't know, I think that's to talk about that and the experience of landing in this new land. Talk a more about it, I think, next time.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:24

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:26

And what it was they were gonna find and how they set it up, their the indigenous people they meet there, her experience with the ghost or uh the two Gudrids. Mm-hmm. Um Yeah, and do you feel like we have to go back because then we're getting to the end of her kind of her story?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:48

That's okay, because there's more women to come. Okay. She's setting the she's setting it. Um I probably I have a little more interest in what she would have done on the ship. Um, maybe. Oh, do you want to talk about it right now? No, I think we're good. I think you covered it.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:09

For next time we want to talk about, let's talk about their voyage more because we should talk about voyage in just the sense of the voyage, because we do have more to talk about with the navigation. We could talk about other people's voyages positive.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:23

I'd like to put her in there. And because no one really up until a few years ago even thought a woman, let alone the whole Vikings made it over there. I'd like to put her in there.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:36

Okay, so we've tried to ship and next time we actually go and we got our spiritual preparation. Yeah. And we'll talk more about that for sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:47

Did you have I'm sure you had more to talk about, but are you?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:50

No, this was no, this was a it felt like just let's list out the things, get an idea for it. Because I love that's always yeah, interesting to me.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:02

And they were smart, they weren't just dodos. So anyway, yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:07

I think they knew where they were going. I think they had good intel. I think uh and they were up for exploring. They weren't they were going to settle for sure, but they also knew that they were going to be breaking off into groups and exploring and you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:25

Yeah. And where they go. They were doing what they do. It's a good example of what they do when they get to a new place. And you can see, you know, how Vikings easily spread that time.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:38

Like the Heat Great Heathen Army was made up of just as many women and children and all the stuff you just listed off. They brought all that with them to land in England.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:50

And take over, and they did. And the the fact that they were settling, I mean, they knew how to take over land. It's you just like when they claim a farm over in Norway, you put your stuff there, right? You bury yourself. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. The more stuff you can bring and just settle and thrive, that's how you acquired that land. You know, then it's yours in their mind.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:20

And then that gives new meaning to the grave sites, because that's really the basis of most of our knowledge is the grave how that they actually packed their ship, yeah, all the goods to go to the other side, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:35

Yeah, all this stuff was packed. Yeah. They found burial sites with the barrels full of food and the ravens.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:44

Yeah. Yeah. So they weren't messing around. No, they knew how to pack a ship.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:54

All right, cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:55

That was good. I love that. That was simple and like very logistical.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:00

That was perfect. And I love your titles of all our shows that you're doing. They're awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:06

Some of them are a little i- I love them. Too weird.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:11

Don't stop doing what you're doing. Okay. Okay. All right.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:15

Anything else? Any housekeeping or anything?

unknown 1:15:18

Final.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:20

We're hoping to get an interview with someone. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:23

Yep. We'll start doing that. It sounds like we heard back, and so they're working on timing. So that would be cool. Yeah. And yeah. Okay. Well, then I will see you on Monday. All right. Okay. Does that work for you next week?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:40

Monday?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:41

And then we're not going to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:42

Oh, then we're driving on Wednesday to come see you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:45

Okay. All right. Okay. Love you. Thank you. Bye.