Vinland: Vikings in North America S2:E12

We Have Arrived! Gudrid and her fellow Greenlanders finally make it to Vinland (North America). They will spend three years building settlements, trading with local tribes, exploring, making babies and making war. Join us as we tell the story, always,  from a woman's perspective. Enjoy!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Okay, we're recording. So show your sweater. Oh, this is hello.

SPEAKER_02 0:05

Welcome to Disc Staff. Hi. I'm showing, I just made this sweater. It's awesome. It's like for when you're having a fat tummy day.

SPEAKER_00 0:17

So it's so cute, and you had stripes and it's a roll neck.

SPEAKER_02 0:22

And all it is is one rectangle with a hole in the middle.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

Oh, I love it. And then you sew up the sides.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

But sleeves you had to do. Sleeves were just, I just made them up. Like they're like one inch. And I still have a thread. Anyway. Okay, show your nailed line.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Oh, here's all. So you do a whole sweater. I did a bracelet.

SPEAKER_02 0:47

Me see, but it's the old school, it's before knitting needles were invented, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

And how did you make it? Just with the gnaw binding where you do it with the this thing. Well, and I've tried to make this hat, but I don't think that's it. Whoa. But it's this where you just wrap it around your thumb. They didn't knit with two sticks. They would wrap it around their thumb and loop it. It's just a looping.

SPEAKER_02 1:16

Is it like and they would use bone needles, right? And yeah, bone or wood, sometimes metal.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

Oh, look at how cool that is. Yeah. But your sweater's amazing. And we're both wearing white. We're just gonna have a culty day.

SPEAKER_02 1:31

We're having we're pure today. We're pure, yes. All right, well, welcome. We are g, you know, now we're I think we're coming to the most exciting part, right? Yes. Okay. And I think you're um we are focusing, there's two sagas as we've always been talking about, the Greenlanders and um the saga of Eric the Red. Yep. And I think Sarah um has been patient with me throughout this season in that uh the two sagas, they well, yeah, because Gudred, we think went already went to North America with the third Thorstein husband, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Um No, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_02 2:25

Oh, you don't think so. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

Uh well I guess that's interesting. We could be sure it was Thorbald's first when Thorbald went. So the one saga has Thorbald going with Leif, and who knows who, maybe Gudrid. I don't know. And he gets shot there and they bring his body back. Right, right. Um but they don't say she went on that. The only thing they talk about with her and Thornstein is they tried and they sailed around all summer, and then maybe they shipwrecked and that's when he died, or maybe they got home and that's when he died. Yeah. And the point Oh, yeah, go ahead. The fact that there's two sagas, I think I it doesn't bother me. It actually, I think, gives us more freedom to to give all the information, right? And then people decide from themselves. True.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

Yeah, true. And so I think um I guess we'll let you you you are the saga girl. Do you want how do you want to tell this story of them arriving? I love your outlines. Oh or no? I read what I did to prepare is I read both the sagas, um their their descriptions of how they arrived, what happened when they were there, and um but no. Okay, you want to approach it.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Um let's just tell I don't know, this the story geographic. Really, when I was going through, I wrote some questions like what would I want to know about this journey? Um, and what excited me the very first time I heard about this journey, because I think for some people that might be listening, we know it so well that but it is really news to people that that European people went to North America this far back. This is 11, no, this is 1000 AD. So that's 400, almost 500 years before Columbus sailed the ocean blue. Yeah. And what we learned through these sagas is that they maybe weren't even the first ones. Maybe they were, but maybe not. They're just exploration is happening by unnamed, unknown, unchamp uh, unlauded people, I guess is the word, uh during this time that we don't even know about. So we our textbooks in school taught us about Magellan and Columbus and you know, these and we, I guess in my mind, I just give all exploration off to them. But really, what was happening is these little groups of people and families and for their own individual needs that you know, we need more fire, what we need more wood, we need more food, we want to explore, or we just love it, we want to go, was happening globally. So we get through the saga a little bit of an example of that. Um, and we don't learn in history books about these people. At least I don't I didn't. I don't know if they do now, but this isn't part of who discovered North America. It's not going to be Gudred and Carl Snuffy and Leif Erickson, you know.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

That's just and what I love about this, what I love about this particular uh story and about Gudrid is it tells a different story of uh someone discovering a land where peoples had lived for thousands, hundreds of thousands of years.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

Right. The word discovery is very loose.

SPEAKER_02 6:26

Yeah. Um, and they they they happen upon, as all the other Viking people are doing in this time frame and in Russia, and um, they happen upon a civilization that you know is doing just fine without them. And what I love about this story is they realize we are not welcome here. This is not our place, and they leave.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

So Yeah, and I was thinking about that. I'm like, these are warriors, these are people that I mean they've I know Carl Snuffy is a merchant, but they're there with um even Leif himself fought with the king, and he wasn't with them on this journey, but these they're with these men that are fighters and they all know how to fight and protect themselves. And I thought, well, were they afraid or was it just a mathematical were they tired? And I wondered if maybe they just weren't up to dealing with a whole bunch of pagans again, you know, like oh, what an interesting thought. But it's a group of people that were especially Leif, Leif or Leif, is it Leif? I don't know, who was uh mandated by his Christian king in Norway to go spread the gospel, they didn't for some reason that was just not they didn't want to spread it to these people, you know. So there was a stopping point of where they were.

SPEAKER_02 7:57

It was uh it's it's actually the moment that we'll talk about is very dramatic in the sense that we're talking this whole time about this clash of religious systems and um and and we get an example of this in this story, um their clash with and it's particularly with the bull, which is you know symbolic. So anyway, I love this. I'm excited to share this story. So should we sketch out?

SPEAKER_00 8:28

Yeah, I kind of did a little bit of a a um maybe this is the way to do it. Let's give a skeleton of yes. There's one way you could do it. We could go step by step and they tell the story and they land here and they land here. I think what got, I think, I don't know, it's so emotional because it they had such a great time. This is such a positive thing they did. I think the way that I just feel happy for them on this trip. Yeah, yeah. And um, so I think we'll just tell if you don't mind, tell like we'll go if they went here, here, here, here, here. Here's what it says in the sagas about each place, here where we think the modern day place is. Is that okay? Yes. And then go back and flesh out the stories because they really do kind of land in one place and base themselves out of one place, then spread from there. Is that all right?

SPEAKER_02 9:20

I think that's important for our listeners who have been patient with our wanderings. Um at the moment, and I think we do need to sketch that out and then flesh it out. I agree.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

And I will put up a map in post-production for people that are watching. For people that are listening, um, if you can just imagine Greenland, right? It's up kind of this dangling participle piece of land. And um Iceland's over to its east, Ireland's over to its very far southeast, and to the west, very close, is Canada basically, and Newfoundland, right? Newfoundland. Um, and then if you go and and what I was reading is that they really did the people in Greenland were really going over, I think it's Labrador, right? Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:25

Trading the islands enough times.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

Yeah, so they called it Markland, but it's Labrador, and they did go over there quite a bit to get wood. So it wasn't this unknown place. They were going to get wood from there. And like you said, it's five days in this saga, and um they call it sometimes it was two days if they had good winds to just get so it's not a big huge deal. And like you said, they sailed up the coast of Greenland. So they left Brad Bradalide, which is in the most southern tip of Greenland, and they took off going north. Um hold on, I'm wrong. Yeah, to northwest, right? And please stop me if I'm wrong or if you Okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:21

Okay. You're usually never wrong. So I'm just I'm sitting back for your you're this you're a great storyteller, so I'm just enjoying it.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

Okay, so they took off to the northwest. So you think, well, they're going to America, why are they going northwest? Well, they don't know they're going to America. They're heading with the winds, and they had the right winds, and they knew where the wood was, and they head up and they're going to explore. They go northwest and they end up in Helaland. H-E-L-L-U-L-A-N-D. Heloland. And that is the present day called Baffin Island. So if you look at a map, that's Baffin Island. And there are cruises you can take that will take you through the like I even printed cruise line Viking ship cruise tour. You leave for Nova Scotia and go to Newfoundland, Labrador, Baffin Island, and over to so we should do that maybe.

SPEAKER_02 12:19

I think we should have a podcast cruise. Yeah, I know. We should all bring our knitting.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

Um start in Salem. Yes. So anyway, so Baffin Island is kind of, yeah, it's the very if you look at Canada, um, it's it's pretty it's the Labrador Sea, it's way the heck up there. So they saw that on Baffin, on Heleland, it was there were large flat stones, um glaciers and tundra. So it wasn't your ideal place to make a camp. So then they started saying, so then they went along that coastline. So now they're off the coast of Canada and they're coming down south.

SPEAKER_02 13:08

And it and it is like what we talked about last week. They do prefer to keep a coastline uh, you know, because I mean they knew latitude and long they longitude, there's proof that they did know how to reckon longitude even back then, even if they didn't know what it was called. They had ways of doing that. So they had that normal, the um astro, not astro clad. Yeah, the I always say it wrong, Polaris thing. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:40

That they don't know, don't don't go to a pull it up, it had notches in the side of it, and they could use a star, and then they could, yeah. So they knew how to navigate. Plus, they would want anybody by the coast because they could camp there at night, uh, cook, use the restroom, probably, whatever. So then they started sailing along that coast and they went past Labrador, Mark, which is um they called it Markland, but it's present-day Labrador, and that's where maybe they already were kind of familiar with. So um, they had good northerly winds. So northerly means the winds blowing from the north, so they had good winds with them and making good time, and then they hit an island called Bjarne Island, and Bjarn means bear, polar bear. So some island that had polar bears.

SPEAKER_02 14:35

Interesting. And wasn't that the island that was so full of poop like piles of poop?

SPEAKER_00 14:42

Yeah, that was leaving.

unknown 14:44

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

They actually thought that was maybe from their own cattle.

SPEAKER_02 14:49

The island of what I think. Maybe they stopped there and shoveled out their barge. Maybe.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

Oh, that's organized. Yeah. So, yeah, so it was an it had a lot of timber, but it had a lot of polar bears. So they named it Bjarne Island. Hmm. And they think they're not sure which one this is. They think it could be disco D-I-S-K-O Island, um, or just some small island off of Newfound Newfoundland, or even off of Labrador itself. So they don't know for sure what island that was. But obviously they didn't stay there for very long because all the bears. And then they went down and um went to Fiarnes, which is interesting because it's in both sagas. Um, but told it uh identified in different ways. One way it was that they one group, this the group that they did the one big trip, I think, yeah, landed there and found the keel of a ship. So they found somebody else's keel of some other person had been there, and it was the keel of a ship in that saga. In the other saga where there are multiple journeys, they attribute, I think, to being lefts.

SPEAKER_02 16:11

Like he built, yeah, he built a or repaired a boat there. But either way, I either way they're they're not alone. They've got their own traces left behind they're leaving for each other.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

Yeah. Yeah. And then this is where they um, so that's northern Newfoundland. Okay. Um, and it's a headland, a prominent point reached after sailing south from Markland. Um, and then they go to Lonze, Lonzo Meadows, okay, which is also Newfoundland, like you said, and it's on the northern tip, right? It's not far from from where they find the keel of the ship. Right. Am I right on that? I believe so. Yeah. So and that is where you could say they build a camp there, or that Eric had already built his camp there, but that's where they're gonna base out of.

SPEAKER_02 17:17

Yeah. And this is you're talking Lansa Meadows, that's where, yeah, and and this is where you can go there. And there's this, is this where the sculpture of Gudrid and her baby scary is?

SPEAKER_00 17:31

Yeah. So I can put a picture up there too. I better really cool.

SPEAKER_02 17:36

But he built a whole compound, like it's it's got several buildings, and um, I think they were planning to base themselves out of there, and then it seemed like you were gonna continue, but but you're exploring for years.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

And they called that Strom Stromford. Stromf, they didn't call it Lance Meadows, they called it Stromford. Okay. And they describe it with lots of rivers that come through it, and just a very the way it's described in these sagas is just almost giddy with how much bounty, how much there was there for them.

SPEAKER_02 18:15

Mm-hmm. And someone mentioned um the way they were very good at recognizing a value of a place. Like they would look for the springs, they'd look for the streams, they'd look for even um Lancer Meadows had the iron bog peat already there that they could forge iron out of. So Leaf had done a good job.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

Yeah. And they and yeah, and remember they had brought women, livestock, so they were ready to find a place to kind of settle and then explore from. So through the saga, then they do go explore and they go find a place called Fur Dove Fur the Strandir, Wonder Strands. And I go earth this because I'm like, where is this place? It's described as big long beaches along, and um it's they call it they they think what I read is possibly Newfoundland or Gulf of St. Lawrence coast. I personally believe, and this map even says it, I think it's off Nova Scotia, off the and I Googled Earth it and it is, it's they're awesome beaches, these big beaches that they call wonder beaches, which is so cute. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:41

Well, probably think about how I mean, I think they had a tide situation with it, right? So they had to but how nice to beach your ship on sand and not, you know, that's probably kind of nice.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

Yeah, just to sail up on it. That's a rent. And that was along Sandy Shorelines. Um, and then from there, my thing doesn't go play, but but then they spread out, and then they have a group of them that will go back up the Gulf of St. Lawrence and kind of even passed on their way to Lake Ontario.

SPEAKER_02 20:17

You said that we think they could have gone all the way to Chicago, which I'm like, well, what they had to na navigate Niagara Falls, or maybe they portaged the established the the Drakken team that recreated it and got all the way to Chicago with their Viking Kenar, um, realized the Indians had already, of course, the Indians, but this the native peoples living there, they were traders all up and down both continents. So there was a established portage trail that they could portage their boat around Niagara Falls. And also in Chicago, there was a portage trail to join the head of the Mississippi River, so they could have gone anywhere.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

Holy cow.

SPEAKER_02 21:02

Yeah. We just haven't don't have evidence. We have some evidence.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

Of course, they had of course all of that was happening before Columbus. Yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

We just haven't.

SPEAKER_02 21:16

Yeah. Yeah. And you know what's cool about it is what's exciting, that initial excitement is no king sent them. This is a group of normal people who you know, they're not out to conquer.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

They're out, you know, out to make war. Mm-mm. Yeah. No. Okay, so that's really cool. So yeah, so then you had a group that went that way. You had a group from this main shoving, you know, uh Strom Stromford. Oh, am I right? Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe maybe Lancer Meadows isn't Stromford.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

I think it's that they did several um they just haven't been found yet. But it to my reading of both the sagas, they seem to have set up several sites.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

Right.

SPEAKER_02 22:12

Right?

SPEAKER_00 22:13

Yeah. And I started going even in as I was reading the sagas.

SPEAKER_02 22:18

And they were pretty smart about splitting up. Like they'd say, we you know, you guys go north, we'll go south, we'll meet up. And um yeah. They had a plan which is exactly what Eric the Red did when he figured out Greenland for three years. He he spent time checking step out. Okay, keep going.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

Um la la la la la. They went to the wonder shore, so now I'm reading out of the saga because it was so the coast can't cook. Um so they then yeah, some of them went down as far as we think to hop. And I think that was Gudred and Kar Snapney went down there. The way they describe hop, they're calling it the tidal pool. Hop means tidal pool, and this is probably in New York. Um but the way that they describe it is let me just get this to where they're saying. Um sail to the mouth of the river and called the land hop. There they found fields of wild wheat, wherever there were low grounds, vines in all places, full of fish, halibut. Um, they were amusing themselves. There were animals in every form, there was wood. It's just like every Viking's green, they were fine in these locations. It just must have been like the possibilities are endless, you know.

SPEAKER_02 23:51

Yeah, yeah. That's kind of a gym. And warm word, they notice, they note how nice the winter was. And but what that one thing I thought about when you said that is they would have known someone had sowed that field then. You know, they would have known that there were people there.

SPEAKER_00 24:14

They're calling it self-sowing wheat, and maybe it was sown, it's not self-sowing, it's n indigenous.

SPEAKER_02 24:21

I I mean, I'd love to explore that a little more.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

That's interesting. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 24:27

Yeah. But it said they they enjoyed the land's bounties and all the good things. Hmm. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:38

And they did they so now do you want to flesh in a little bit about what their life, day-to-day life was or what they what you think about it?

SPEAKER_02 24:46

Could you hit some points like when she had the baby, like how long they stayed? Can we flesh that out a little bit?

SPEAKER_00 24:55

And then it depends on your saga again. Um, you we can say for three seasons, or you can say they came back and forth a couple times.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

Um say they left when she had the baby. Um but I think I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

Either way, they set up they established a home there. It felt like they had made it a home and they had figured things out enough. Even if you want to blend it, like if Leif had done it before, they had taken, they'd built a settlement, a longhouse and its outbuildings. They found those on Lance Meadows. They had figured out their livestock was thriving there. They could let their livestock run wild, they didn't have to fence it in. Right. Cause we know all about the guards and how boundaries and borders were pretty important to them. Um they they had plenty of food and they were talking about starving. The only problem they ever had, other than the the big problem that happened at the end, was just single men not having women. Right. They got jealous of the guys that had wives with them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

Um women were having babies and they were creating a life there and exploring, and and they had interesting characters with them. They had um two Scotsmen that had been given but to by King Olaf, I think.

SPEAKER_02 26:33

And definitely thralls because they described their clothing as the thrall outfit. Okay. Which had no sleeves and was just a shift.

SPEAKER_00 26:43

Those are those two they buttoned at the crotch, I think.

SPEAKER_02 26:47

Almost like and they sent them off just what? They dropped them off and said, go run as far as you can and then come back.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

Or come back, and they did. They it was a man and a woman, and they ran. They just like almost like scouts go out and they would run.

SPEAKER_02 27:05

They were known for running and they came back with grapes, and you know, so I mean, they knew they were good at exploring and they had an eye to trading. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

And then uh someone else they had their pagan group, the man that came with them, who was, I think, with Freitas. And also his name was Thor all. She's married to a Thorval, Freitas. This guy is Thor all. And again, like I said, the two sagas, one saga doesn't talk about Thorall, this pagan group that was with them at all. And and so when things happen in this saga, so in both sagas have a story about they are kind of hungry. I think they're newly there, so they haven't quite established it yet. So they're I I almost took to them like the Mayflower, landed on the beach or whatever, trying to get established. And in one saga, they find this whale and they bring it in, or it's and or it's there, and they eat it and it nourishes them. It's I've told this before, and it's healthy. And then the same saga in the same place, um, with this Thorall, the pagan, he's the one that finds the whale or helps bring it in. And they all start eating it. And he says, by the way, I gave this your the quote is Has it not been that Redbeard, who's Thor, Redbeard has proved a better friend than your Christ. Whale meat, this pagan guy, and he's this dark, well, they say dark, scruffy, dark, I think in spirit, scruffy friend. He's been a family friend. Do you want to add to this? I feel like you know more than no, I'm loving it. No, I love this, I love it. Um, he's just kind of like the uh Leif grew up with him and loves him, right? He's someone that was treated like his father just was very Eric again is pagan. So this Lega calls him his foster father. Yeah, so it's Eric's really good friend who we know. A Eric is super pagan. This is his super pagan buddy. Everybody's kind of like, even the way it's written is kind of he's weird, and um so he blesses, but as they're eating this whale, he says, See, Thor's taking better care of you than this Christ, because here we have this whale, um, and he does this poem, and we know poems have kennings in them, which is different things mean different uh words create. It's basically giving definitions through poem or whatever. Um and so it as then the people stopped eating it, and the ones that had eaten it got really sick, and the and the ones who heard this didn't eat it. So it was just this I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 30:14

They they had, I mean, it throughout you could definitely write a whole thing on the conflict between pagan and Christian existing on this trip. Right. Um, and also, you know, you can definitely tell when the Christian people are like, oh, you know, you know, it's just a lot of tension around this, which reflects upon the general tension of this time period on earth in a thousand AD.

SPEAKER_01 30:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:44

So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

This is a Christian interpretation. I'm not using this is not from my whatever, the one I'm using, but um said that they threw down the meat and turned to God and prayed for supplication that they had partaken of this pagan blessed food or whatever. And then at that very moment, fish came, you know, they basically dipped their nets into the water and got a bunch of fish or whatever. And there was no lack of food that spring. So the very and again, translation, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I believe that that was a a constant theme for these people as they were traveling, and every little thing would have a meaning then. And if you wanted to say it's a pagan god doing it or Christ doing it, then they were I think they were doing that.

SPEAKER_02 31:34

It is weird they're having to navigate these this synchronism between two religions right out on the ocean. And I think when things got rough, like which God are you gonna pray to when the big storm shows up, you know? Like who who are you gonna bet on, basically? Right. We kind of talked about that, like hedging your bets, you know. Interesting. Yeah, there are a bunch of good characters in these a lot.

SPEAKER_00 32:05

I mean, and you don't hate Thorball, and they find he gets lost and they have to go find him, and they finally find him on the edge of a cliff, and he's itching, and he's and they bring him back and they want to leave him, and Leif is like, no, he's been like a father to me. Um I hope it's Leif, is it, that loves Thorball so much? I believe Thor Thorfight.

SPEAKER_02 32:28

I believe so, because you know, if he's Freydus's husband, they're brother-in-laws, in a sense, maybe. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

Either way, it reads that he cares about him.

SPEAKER_00 32:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:45

Thor's And by this time, I mean, they I love how the sagas show the reality of a family trip that that has good moments and really sucky moments where you just don't even want to be near them all, and they leave people at an island, and you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:02

I know. Oh, because I would love it if it was already actually Carl, Carl Snaffy who loved Thorall. So Thorall was called the sportsman. He had for a long time been Eric's companion in fishing and content spec. Thorall was a big dark man of gaunt appearance, rather advanced in years, overbearing in temper, of melancholy mood, silent at all times, underhand in his dealings, and was given to abuse and always inclined towards the worst. This is this translation. Hey, well, who brought him? Yeah, he oh here. He had kept himself aloof from the true faith when it came to Greenland, so he's not he is pagan. He was but little encompassed with the love of friends, but Eric had long held conversation with them, and he went in the ship with Thorbald. Oh, so he went with Thorbald. Thorbald. So he was Eric DeRed, so they must have all Eric loved them. Thorbald loved them. That means Thorstein loved them. Thorns.

SPEAKER_02 34:09

I mean you just it's he's like the uncle that she just have to put up with.

SPEAKER_00 34:15

Yeah. Okay. Which okay, so then you're if the saga has Thorvald with him, that's fine, that makes sense. So Thorvald goes to find him. And they don't know Erica's dead at this point because he died after falling from the horse when they were leaving. So they probably did feel like they had to bring him back, sort of. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Anyway, do you want to talk about the women's center and what it would have been like life around camp a little bit? Well, um. Or how far do you want to tell this their adventure?

SPEAKER_02 34:59

I I think we wanna, I think we stick with your original plan, which I liked. Um we could there's a point in we could enter in from the saga, the saga where it says in the summer following the first winter screllings were discovered. Which had the meeting. Yeah, so we could tell them. But I also I also know what you I mean, yeah, maybe we should talk about what Gudrid was doing there. And she had the baby, Freitas would have helped her. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 35:35

And we can cut this part out, but um, so the way that I I don't know, to tell it is the women would have set up the homestead, the camp, the housing. Um, the men would have built it one way or the other. Either it was built before, it was built then, but they had it had buildings, outbuildings, they had a women's area, the jinja, I think it's called. Would have been weaving, sewing, making better, making food. Um, it would have been a bustling, just like over in Greenland, it would have been a bustling, productive place with boats coming and going, off to go explore excitement when the people came back with what they found. I imagine there were, I don't know if there was a chapel there, but I imagine some kind of religious place would have been put there. Um, and then all of a they on one of the explorations, I don't they in one of the sagas, there's two ways that they come across the indigenous people. And you you pronounced it right. It's the Skrullings. Skrellings. Skrullings, so that's translated, sadly, means barbarian or you know. Yeah, yeah. Um one of the ways that they come across them is by surprise. They're on an ex they're it's Car Snuffy, and they are just walking, and and then they come across skin boats. So these boats that are flipped over on the beach, and they're not quite sure they approach them. They think maybe they're gifts from this group of people. Oh. Um, but then I think they're and two sagas are blending, but it ends up that there are people hiding underneath these boats and shoot at them. So there's a kind of a shootout or something. Um, so that's your first hostile encounter is with this little band of indigenous people and kind of a uh skirmish or whatever. And one of the sagas that's where Thorvald gets shot and then is brought back to Greenland, his body's brought back to Greenland. And the other one is just Carl Sneffy and his group who have this encounter. But either way, the relationship with the indigenous people, who by the way, it's speculated that this group is um the modern-day Baewick, B B E O U.

SPEAKER_02 38:12

Yeah, um, strongest, yep.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

Um yeah, Bay Bauthuk, Bay O B B-E-O-T-H-U-K. And then um even more anciently, so maybe even more appropriate, they're calling the Mai Kamak, M-I uh apostrophe K-M-A-Q. So it is a tribe um of people that we do know a little bit about their, a little bit about their tradition. Um but whatever happened in that skirmish, eventually then we find out that they do approach this town and uh Gudred and her people. And there's trading that happens. And they like you said, the red cloth, they either knew beforehand to bring red cloth that these people liked red cloth, which is interesting.

SPEAKER_02 39:07

They like they did, which is interesting.

SPEAKER_00 39:09

Or they discovered it over if we were doing the multi-trip saga. The first one was a skirmish, and they came back, and then they knew they so they they loved anything dairy. So once they discovered that these people would give everything that they had to trade for anything butter, milk, cheese, um, which means that which matches with the fact that they were so surprised by their cows and their bulls that they just hadn't seen bowling type. Right. And I I don't know, did they have goats?

SPEAKER_02 39:44

I'm sure they were getting they had goats and um yeah, so let's see, yeah. So anyway, that's what hit me is that the bull was such a the cattle was a weird thing. Yeah, and the milk of the cattle.

SPEAKER_01 40:01

Yeah, they were so excited about it.

SPEAKER_02 40:04

Yeah. So what's happening to me is um and the horses that they brought. And then anyway, I don't know. We'll have to cut this part out.

SPEAKER_00 40:20

But um Yeah, it is just there you can go all different ways with the with the little sentences of the little tidbits in both these sagas. Right, right. Because we're going, well, why didn't they know this? And then does that mean that? And you can just go, it's why this is should be taught in schools. And I know.

SPEAKER_02 40:38

I know. And I did ask, so the I did ask the same thing you did, who would they have been? And it's the what you said the Bayo took, but it seems like they the more south they went, they'd meet different people, right?

SPEAKER_00 40:55

And even north, so in the very end on their way out, they see a whole other group of people, and they and they do the math that oh, this chain of mountains matches this chain of mountains and this group of people on the way out. They see the one-legged people, right? Yes, yes. So they're they know some, they don't know all, and they maybe were overwhelmed by the difference of each group of indigenous tribe, or some reason they just did not get the sense to go back and try to settle.

SPEAKER_02 41:30

No, because I I think your point is, yeah, it they would have met multiple, there were multiple peoples. Um in fact, like one count, they are thinking one, two, three, four, five, could have met six to seven different confederations, different tribes. And as we study the indigenous tribes, a lot of their things are similar belief systems, but they were different cultures, just like in Europe.

SPEAKER_00 41:59

Yeah. Some would fight differently, some um they had relations with the people that were in Greenland, they knew them, they would share the same walrus hunting grounds, or you know, so there were encounters with them. Supposedly Iceland had none when the first people were I don't know. I don't know. But um it's not like they didn't know how to obviously they knew how to interact with individuals, you know.

SPEAKER_02 42:30

Right. They knew they were traders, they were used to meeting new people, whether it be Russia or anywhere else. So for some reason, you know, it seemed like trade went well for a minute and then uh it broke down.

SPEAKER_00 42:47

And what's the word for that Americans always use? Is it manifest destiny? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 42:56

Like, was this not the right time or the right people or I think well what's weird about this, we can talk about the women, but then there's also the question of what did freak both groups of people out about each other in the end, to the point where they're running for their lives, you know.

SPEAKER_01 43:20

Right.

SPEAKER_02 43:22

But I I started to down a rabbit hole of, you know, they had the SAMI culture in Finland and Norway, and um, and they by thousand AD they kind of had each inherited some belief systems and some ideas from them. So I said, how close would these other polar people on the other side would they have recognized their belief systems or their trading preferences, um, the red cloth and all that kind of stuff? And yeah, there would have been some similarities.

unknown 43:59

Um

SPEAKER_02 44:00

Um they recognized the skin canoes, so they understood about that stuff. But then what was it about the battle or the strategy of war that freaked them out so much?

SPEAKER_00 44:14

Well, there is yeah, so uh going back then to their first meeting with each other, they they had trade, so they were trade, and then this is then it adds comes to this the thing that freaked them out. So they were trading, and what happened is they I'm sure they saw these Norse or these Greenlanders, Viking dudes with the swords and the axe and and the knife and and just all these tools that they had, these metal tools that they had. And um when they describe the battles in a little bit, they you can tell that the these uh indigenous people don't have metal or these kind of tools, right? Or iron or um so they wanted to trade those. The group of people wanted to like love the milk, love the cloth, that's all good. But now we want, can you trade us your weapons? And Carl Stephanie was like, no, we're not. He's like, put all the weapons away, hide all the put all the weapons inside, bring out the dairy, bring out, and and that was enough. That appeased them on those couple of first trading. That was good. Fine. Um, but then on a certain and the I guess we'll tell the story now, there was one certain trading day that was pivotal, and it was pivotal for for me in my love of the story for two reasons. It was the day that I picture Gudrid was, we know she was inside the women's area or in her home, and I picture it just a nice, pleasant trading day. So there's visitors trading, you can hear it, she's inside. And as a mother with a baby, you know this moment. You're in with your baby. I picture she was nursing her baby or taking care of her baby or pregnant or whatever, but she's having that quiet, that mo, you know, that time where it's so busy outside, and you kind of steal away for a moment of quiet with your child, and your rest, your body's at rest, your mind's at rest, your child's at rest, you're still happy because you can hear life happening outside your door. I don't know, maybe as an introvert, this is a joy. Oh, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 46:37

It's it's good.

SPEAKER_00 46:38

It's yeah, it's like you get a little, a little uh rest, but that you didn't have to awkwardly ask for your baby gave it to you. Yeah. Yes. But I picture her there, and I picture sun coming in and just a pleasant moment of rest with her child. And this is why I think it gets translated into some weird some like was she imagining this? Was she having a vision? Was it a hallucination? Was she asleep? Was it a dream? But Gudrid is is with her child and a shadow, a person, a woman comes through the door into the doorway. And the woman they describe her dress, what she's wearing in one of these sagas, and Gudrid says, I can say exactly what she says, my name is Gudrid, what is your name? And this apparition or whatever says, My name is Gudrid. And so it's the story of two Gudrids, and people make a lot out of it. Um some say, Well, it was a ghost, some think it's a spirit, Gudrid's spirit, um, her future. You can just go all over with it. My favorite way to go is that it was a young native indigenous girl. Somebody wrote a really great article about it that I loved, who um studied this tribe or this group of people and said that yes, young women would have worn this sash that's kind of wrapped around you and thrown over. And um, in 1602, there was a man that went to Martha's vineyard, which would have been the same, and he met an indigenous man there. And the man's trick or his skill was being able to repeat English words perfectly back so they could orally recreate different languages, even if they didn't know what they were singing. So the fact that Gudrid said, My name is Gudrid, this girl would have been able to say, My name is Gudrid. And again, this is Gudrid's only person that could have told this story that's in both these sagas, I think. You're right, would have been Gudrid. So it's from this this little story is from our woman herself telling this her eyewitness account of this moment, which I just love. What are your thoughts on it?

SPEAKER_02 49:12

I love it for the same reasons. I love it um for the quiet, and I love it for the two women while the the mayhem and the man stuff's happening outside. She enters the woman's space. And in in one telling of it, they were speaking to each other to almost telepathically they could understand each other's language, or the gist of it is they had an understanding, or they like, you know, you wonder how Gudrid would have told it, but it's such a cool moment. And you know, here you are with your baby, she's entering this private personal moment with Gudrid, and they were seemed comfortable with each other.

SPEAKER_00 49:59

That's what I think when you are in that nursing, usually as a mother in your little nursing quiet place, the only person you'll allow there is maybe your other children to come ask for something or just want to find you. And it's that's a really loving you in you're welcome them into your you do, you build, I'm getting woo-woo or whatever, but you build an actual bubble around yourself in those moments. You do the most magical thing I think that happens is a actual encirclement of protection that happens when you're nursing your baby somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 50:40

And they've proven there's a release of hormones when you're nursing that releases that that makes you feel really comfortable.

SPEAKER_00 50:48

And maybe that's why people and get so uncomfortable when women do it in public, because it's not so much the woman's doing it in public as they're feeling that protective creating this protection bubble that, whoo. But um, or oh, whatever. So anyway, so to have girl or this woman enter into that magical protective mothering bubble, um, and then have them have this conversation, I think is like you're saying that it was this quiet moment, and I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 51:22

And it reminds me a lot of um the moment we talked about in the first season of the the um meeting of the two our two women, the indigenous woman and then our colonial women, and we talked about were they understanding what did they think of this world these men were creating, and it's a lot the same that's going on here. Um that you wonder what they could have said to each other, you know what I mean? And the fact that Gudrid, that this story is passed down in two different ways meant it was a pretty interesting moment for her.

SPEAKER_00 52:04

Um think of the pivotal um moment that could have been, because shortly right after all hell breaks loose. But here's this moment, these two women are in the in the women realm, in like men meet in palaces, men meet in battlefields and all these places, and these two women are meeting in a mothering room. And if they could have been the ones to maybe figure out the trade and how we're gonna coexist, and where do we go from here? And we really don't want you, like if they would have been the ones to figure maybe, and this comes back to my point. It is time for women to be in let's let's turn.

SPEAKER_02 52:45

Can we use it is time for us to speak to each other?

SPEAKER_00 52:50

Yeah, yeah. Um, so here is this moment where okay, if that could have been in a different world and a different place where those were the two leaders of these groups of people meeting in this moment, would it have been a different outcome for everybody? I don't know. Like it's just is history filled with these would-me moments of so such different outcomes if women could have been the ones.

SPEAKER_02 53:17

And the fact that Gudrud, as this story was carried down, the message was received to us, they could communicate. Something was communicating, something was being understood between them. And then I mean, you don't mind, okay.

SPEAKER_00 53:35

All of a sudden, boom. Yeah. So there they are.

SPEAKER_02 53:39

Um, all the men are out there. Do you care if I read this part? No. Okay. Gujard was this is from yeah, Gudrid was sitting inside in the doorway. This is a a translation. Um, beside the cradle of her infant son Snori, when a shadow fell upon the door and a woman in a black garment entered. She was short in stature, wore a shawl over her head, and her hair was light brown, red brown. She was pale, and her eyes were so large that never before had eyes of that size been seen in a human head. Now that's someone's weird translation, but okay.

SPEAKER_00 54:16

But uh the modern uh investigation into this group of the bay with they do have bigger eyes, and they do ritual where they they put red into their hair. And the way so the this description fits with what this tribe does anciently. So the big eyes.

SPEAKER_02 54:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:41

Or single aliens, whichever.

SPEAKER_02 54:44

So the woman walked right up to where Gujard was seated, which again, that's if you're nursing your baby, you're ready to uh protect. Like even your toddler, if they get too close, you're not gonna. Um and she said, What is your name? Um, so in this one, we have the woman instigating the c but we don't know. And Gujar says, My name is Gudrid, what is your name? My name is Gudrid, said she. Um, the mistress of the house, Gudrid, motioned her with her hand to sit beside her. But so here's this moment gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00 55:20

They're gonna talk. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:25

Bond.

SPEAKER_02 55:26

Yeah. But it so happened that at that very instant Gudrid heard a great crash, upon which the woman vanished. And at that same moment, one of the Skrullings who had tried to seize their weapons was killed by one of Carl Sefni's followers. At this, the Skrullings quickly fled, leaving their gardens, garments, and trade goods behind them. And no one except Gudrid had seen this woman. Um, and then Carl Sefni comes in. I think they're gonna visit us a third time and attack us, and we're gonna go into battle. So that's the default plan.

SPEAKER_00 56:03

Yeah. And in one of the um sagas, it says that the reason that the Skrling had wanted to attack is because the bull had the bull had through it. Now it came to pass that a bull, which belonged to Carl Snuffy, rushed out of the woods and bellowed loudly. So a bull came and scared them all, and they all freaked out and they all got defensive. And what do we do when we're scared? We're gonna fight. And so they all whatever happened outside was enough that Carl Snuffany knew the next time we meet, it's gonna be a battle. Yep. Dang it, right?

SPEAKER_02 56:40

Right. Like our world fight now, you know. Is that yeah? We can't touch, so let's let's fight.

SPEAKER_00 56:52

Yeah. So, okay, okay. So get your weapons ready, and then these people go off and they're getting their weapons ready, and that's the end of the story. I mean, that's not the end. That's the end of this glorious, awesome time where they were trading with them and they were finding these fruits. I they the way that the sagas were it is they were like almost like children exploring and having this beautiful and and just my own nostalgia of summer in this part of the world is magical. It is. It's it's the ocean and the smells and the the trees and just that part and the golden sunset. I just I just picture, you know, the sad end to this magical time for them.

SPEAKER_02 57:46

Yeah. And and it's and it, you know, it's interesting, and then and then we get into discussion of weapons right away. Right away. You know, the fact that the um the indigenous peoples grabbed one of their axes, took it out with them, and then they were trying to determine how it was used or the value, and so they threw a rock at it and the handle broke, and they're like, Well, this is worthless. And doesn't that tell you so much about these?

SPEAKER_00 58:19

Well, and then then the other saga, it's that they took it and they threw it at their friend and it killed their friend, and then they looked at it and said, This is worthless, and threw it into the ocean. So either way, they established that, oh, this weapon is worthless, threw it into the ocean. But what they did when they came back was as Carl Snaffin are getting ready, they knew that this was gonna be uh this had gone south. Um, this tribe came back with big sticks with big balls on the end of the. I thought this is interesting. I tried to look up, could it be? So they come back and they got these big sticks with these big black balls. And the way the only way they could describe is it looked like cows' stomachs. And either the description makes it gross like that, or that's really what it was, but something about them kind of swirling around these sticks with these big black balls on the top of them, and then they flung them into the village, or whatever, the compound, and when they splattered, it was made huge explosive sounds. So this is their big cursing or weapon or something that freaked out the group, and then they started this big battle.

SPEAKER_02 59:36

And yeah, it's um I I did look into it, and this isn't a definite answer because I asked why why the reaction from the Norse people when the indigenous people's type of fighting involved hiding and popping up and surprise. Um you'd think they would be used to that, but it says the um it says Carl Stephanie and Snorri see the scrailings host a large spear and a pole, dark blue in color, which came flying over the heads and make made an ugly sound. Um and then it says Algonquin tradition preserved the memory of exactly this kind of weapon. A boulder sewn tight in a a boulder, so a rock sewn tight in a skin and slung at the end of a long rod. And colonial era sources confirm indigenous people used um no such weapon post-Columbus, suggesting it was an older, perhaps abandoned technology. Um go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:49

It just it made a huge sound, so that's louder than just a rock clanging in there.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:53

It had a lot of but it's interesting that the saga here just um, you know, Columbus, they weren't using it, our colonial people didn't see it. But this saga has preserved a weapon for the Algonquins that's made those connections. It wasn't something someone just made up.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:16

That's so cool. It's so cool. It produced great enough terror, it says in Carl Snaffy and his company that the only impulse was to retreat up the kind um retreat up, retreat up the along the which the Norse the Vikings never retreat. Which it had to have been terrifying. And it says that they went all the way, they felt like they were surrounded by this krlingar from all sides, and they stopped not until they came to certain crags. So they were hiding now. Our Vikings are hiding, and they offered them stern resistance. So this is the part where Freitas comes out and she sees that these men are retreating. She's pregnant, she, which okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:08

Eric the Red's daughter who came on the trip with them.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:11

Who we think pretty sure she's pagan. Not sure, but she's yeah. She Freitas comes out and she's I picture her as Gudra's friends. Somehow I picture like the relationship.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:24

Each other birthed their babies together. They were sister-in-laws. Right. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:40

And she picks up a sword and she rips her dress, her uh, well, call it a dress, and bears her breast and starts beating the sword against her breast, slapping it against her breasts and yelling at the hermen, like you guys are weaklings. Yeah. And um, she she says, Why why run away from such worthless creatures, stout men that ye are, when it seems likely you might slaughter them like so many cattle? She's like, even you guys are Vikings. Why are you so afraid of these people? Um, I think I could fight them better than you, she says. And she and this freaked out the indigenous people so bad. Crazy wild hair, I'm she's redheaded, bare-breasted pregnant woman, hot with hormones, you know, slapping the swords, yelling at her men. She's not yelling at yelling at her dudes. And this scares off the the indigenous people so much that they ran off, and that's the end of the battle.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:48

Yeah, she is truly a Valkyrie at that moment.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:52

And she did Yeah, she um, isn't this where she killed? She came above, oh yeah, she came upon a dead man. So she took the sword from a one of her own dead people and starts yelling at yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:08

Which to me, it's um so if you were you could write a bunch of stuff about Freitas versus Gudrid or blah blah blah blah blah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:16

Totally.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:16

Um, but but it speaks to the fact that so the Sami people and the polar indigenous traditions, there was a separation between men and women. And so you don't you didn't see women warriors in those traditions. But in the Norse tradition, as we discussed, you've got women that show up in graves. That somehow that gender division was very different among the Norse people, and we don't know why it was that way, but but women, you know, she you carried your own weapons, you were so that might have really scared the indigenous men who their women did not ever fight.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:06

And this image of a woman, you know, like I know. She's and um she's not in chains. I mean, she's just and they uh Carlson Anthony in the group praised her, you know, she was praised for it, and and um anyway, it it would be interesting. Like she's one whale, Gudrud's the other whale. It's just the the contrast of like you're saying these two women is really cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:32

Pagan woman versus the Christian woman versus you could put them on the ship and each praying to a different god. You could, you know, when they were having when um having babies, they would have been the midwifes.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:48

So what superstitions, you know, it it you could just go crazy with that. But but that it that's what makes the sagas so alive. Everyone should read 'em. Because here's this crazy woman in the middle of this battle. You don't see this in the colonial times, right? You don't and and then they're done. They there's evidence that at Lanzo Meadows they left.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:14

Like they quickly left.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:16

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:17

And they were leaving. Um oh one thing reminded me what you were saying. With uh the colonial women. I can't remember. But yeah, so um they left. So they they packed up quickly and left. Dang it, I'm gonna I wish I could remember. Um I don't know. But yeah, so they quickly pack up and leave because they know that this is going to turn violent. In one saga, they do take I mean, this is probably why this is another reason. They took two the boys, two in indigenous boys back with them, and they did get to learn a little bit about. I don't know if this is after, but they got to learn a little bit about that the people, this tribe doesn't live in houses, they live in caves. Yeah, that's right. Gave them a little bit. They knew about the IR people in Ireland, they were aware of the the, you know, they knew these people, they had actually stu sailed to their shores and watched them kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:26

Which is interesting that none of that traveled back to England or France or through any of these Nordic networks that, like, hey, we've but I guess they were used, they brought Scottish people, they're gonna bring back other people, but it didn't that's why they're starting to see DNA show up in Iceland and places like that that are is not Sami or um we'd have to verify that, but that's what I read. But yeah, I mean they literally went there, they left evidence, they went there several times, and no one made a big deal about it. They don't get the credit of it.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:07

And they were Christian, so there's that, but they weren't Spanish, they weren't Freemasons, so they weren't, they were, yeah, they were explorers and Gudrid.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:20

So now that's why she's one of the most well-traveled women ever.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:26

Yeah. Oh, so on their way out, that's right. When on their way out, they did encounter this one-legged oh yeah, uh one last kind of skirmish with the one-legged indigenous person who ran off. Um, so that's interesting, and they followed the mountains back and they came back. Um and then they don't go back. I mean, it's just yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:54

They never go back.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:56

But then then you could follow the lingering um indigenous beliefs that the later people encountered where they weren't surprised to see. They weren't surprised to see Columbus and these dudes as he Columbus and those dudes were to see them. So Sem story never very fast. And it became a fairy tale and a myth in a saga until now we can verify it.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:25

Do you think they did that on purpose to protect it?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:29

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:30

Project it like for their backup plan or something? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:36

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:37

I feel like we're forgetting some important part before we send them back. Something's negative.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:43

Okay, well, we are gonna leave them there for a minute, and our next episode will send it up.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:52

I'm sorry. I think we should tell about the other s end of the story with Freitas just the flippy floppy just to get that done. Sorry, I have a teenager. Um the other version is the multiple travel version, is that they all go back. Freitas has still has a craw or ants in her pants, and she hang on.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:21

I'm doing a podcast. Wait just a minute.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:27

Okay. Um so Freitas, do you want to tell us? Sorry. She gets her husband, she and her husband, and two dudes from Iceland or somewhere, two merchant guys. And I think they're nice, they're pretty honorable guys. She gets another expedition organized. Yeah, she organized. Yeah, court Carlson, they're all like, we're done, we're gonna go. This is when Carl Stephanie and Gudrud go to Norway, I think, and that part is that chapter is closed for them, but not for Freitas. And so it's got business. Yeah, she gets another expedition. She gets Leif to promise that they can use his camp again at um Lance Meadows. And she promised she needs the boat, so she makes a deal with these two men that, you know, let's all go in equal, even Stevens, and we'll use your boats, and you can use our. When we get there, we'll use come together. These two guys go out ahead and they get to the camp and they establish it, and she shows up and is kind of upset that they're on this camp. So she kicks them out. She's like, Yeah, we're a team, but you can't, this is my brother's place, and you gotta go set up your own place. So they set up their own camp a little further up, and um oh my gosh, my sagas are gonna blend. Is she the one she goes barefoot? Okay, so she wakes up. Yeah, and she's crazy. She's pissed because there's a lot of single men again and they're fighting over the women, and and they she wants, she's greedy, kind of the way it's written. And she sneaks out one morning barefoot and goes over to this other group's camp and makes a deal with them, kind of double crosses them. That like if you pack up your boats and your ships, am I telling this right? Yeah. And so then she sneaks back to her camp, sneaks back in bed with her husband. He notices her cold wet feet and kind of suspects like something's up. And she double crosses this other group, wants her people to kill them, um, to so they can bring the back the laden boats of goods for herself back to Greenland. Yeah. And men won't do it. Her husband and her men are like, no, this is a wicked plan. We're not gonna slaughter this other camp of people to bring back all the goods to Greenland. There's women and children in these camps, we're not gonna do it. She grabs a sword and she slaughters. I think they do kill the men kill the men, but they won't kill the women and the children. Is that right? Yeah. She gets a sword and she herself kills the women and the children. And then they get on this boat and she makes everybody promise, don't ever tell anybody what happened over there. Comes back over to Greenland, wealthy, and nobody knows what happened, and obviously someone told because it's in the saga. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:34

Yeah. But if but the real, if you have the stereotypical Viking berserker, she's the one of them that is that. I mean, who brought that girl?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:46

She's getting stuff done. It's Eric Dred's daughter. Yeah. Yeah. That's when people want to tell the story of the saga, they'll wrap it up with like the demise was greed, and the end, greed, and Christian moral. Yeah. The exploration of America didn't happen because they were too greedy and blah blah blah. And it usually has to do with this Freitas story. Um Freitas. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so next week we wrap it up then.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:16

Wow. Yes. And um feel free in comments to ask questions because there's so much more to this story. So um, but yeah, so this is Gudrid and and how casual they are about going back and forth, you know, as opposed to the whole Columbus fest that's been going on for years and years.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:40

So it's so interesting. I wish we I'm sure there's work being done on the indigenous side of their histories and stories. Why is it so hard to maybe we may well, this was hard to get. We had to go after this. This was hard to get. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:57

This was hard to get. And and there's, yeah, I I think what we need to encourage is other women to start telling the stories of their culture and and t teasing them out. It'll have to take the women that belong to those traditions to be able to do it, I think.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:17

Yeah, and not be afraid to tell the story to speculate, to be wrong. Right? Say you're not aren't sure, but you think this, because that's the only way it's when you it's so when the demand for such we talked about this before, I think so many things get shut down because the demand for black and white is there and for good reason. But I think in order to blend to weave these two, here we are again trying to weave the European and the indigenous together. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:55

Stature human story together somehow.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:59

And we're so we're drawn together. Yeah. Yeah. It's not really black and white thing. Yeah. I mean, that's why we all there's always keep people who want to be the story keepers and who feel that burden of we gotta protect everyone behind the door. Protect it and share it, and and that's what we're we're trying to do. And it'd be great to form a community of storytellers, story keepers that that want to share both sides of a story, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:32

And it'd be cool if we could have a database or something where we have each story, and then you could pull out little familiar things from because like what you do when you read, and you one little thing that's like, hmm, and I read this in here, and then somehow combine it, like this article did with the red hair. Like, I know this has red hair and bigger eyes, and here's a saga, a Norwegian saga that's talking about someone with and then they put it together in this article. It was just so that would be cool. I love it, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:04

Okay, well, okay. All right, well, thank you, Sarah. Thank you for your message. That was great. All right, okay, love you. Skrellings in your house. What's that? Or take care of your own scraings in your house.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:23

School's out, so we're getting crazy. Love you. Bye. Bye. Oh shoot.