Building YOUniversity

What If Your Biggest Leadership Gap Is Relationships? A Discussion with Dr. Posey.

• Tim Lansford • Season 1 • Episode 10

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Most leadership advice tells you to move faster, think bigger, and push harder. We’re taking a different road: the one where character, humility, and relationships decide whether your team actually follows you when it counts. I’m Tim Lansford, and I sit down with Dr. Posey, a seasoned pastor and mentor who’s led people through conflict, change, and the kind of real-life pressure you can’t solve with a spreadsheet.

We talk about how leaders are formed, from his early pre-med years to decades in ministry, and why hands-on work matters. Mission trips, nonprofit build projects, and even tearing down a house became unexpected training grounds for practical skills, safe tool use, and confidence. If you’re in construction leadership, real estate leadership, or business management, you’ll recognize the same pattern: people grow when we let them learn in the field, not just in theory.

Then we get blunt about what leaders need to unlearn. Dr. Posey shares the lesson he learned late: focusing on the “business” side while underinvesting in relationships costs you trust and momentum. We dig into mentoring, motivation, the Five Love Languages as a leadership tool, and the discipline of honest self-evaluation, including getting feedback from others. We also close with rapid-fire questions, dad jokes, and a quick look at his national parks journey.

If you want practical leadership development with real stories and clear takeaways, listen now, subscribe, share it with a leader on your team, and leave a review.

Welcome And Show Mission

SPEAKER_02

Welcome to the Building University. I'm your host, Tim Lansford. This podcast is for builders, real estate professionals, and business leaders who understand that the most important thing you'll ever build is yourself. Here we talk about leadership, accountability, decision making, and the mindset required to succeed in the real world of business. No fluff, no theory, just real world leadership. So let's get started. Today's conversation goes a little deeper. We talk a lot on this show about leadership, accountability, decision making, but underneath it all, there are qualities that shape how a person leads character, wisdom, humility. That's why I wanted Dr. Posey with me today. After many years as a pastor leading people through conflict, growth, hard decisions, and real life challenges, he brings a seasoned perspective on leadership that reaches well beyond the church. I think this conversation will bring real value to anyone trying to lead people. Dr. Posey.

SPEAKER_00

Wow, you said exactly what I told you to say.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, word by word.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, you didn't miss one beat.

SPEAKER_02

No, not at all. That's great. Hey, welcome to my show. If if you guys don't know, and and you will soon know, Dr. Posey and I have another podcast that we do together. Yes. Biblical Leadership Show that we've been doing it for Oh my gosh, almost three years. Almost three years now. And uh we've been hanging out doing a lot of that. And and uh, you know, it's it's pretty exciting to go to TimLansford.com forward slash podcast. You can see all our podcasts there, but or go to biblical leadership show.com. But we're we're excited to have you here on this podcast, sort of cross cross-cultural, you know, we're we're crossing over the aisles to my my building podcast. And and it was one of those things that I wanted you here because for one, you know, you're an integral part of my life, and you know, you need to be on here to talk about it. And and you're you're probably one of the biggest people next to myself that talks about leadership, right? Uh yeah you got a lot of knowledge up there in that knobbing, right? You know, and and uh I'm excited to have you here with me.

SPEAKER_00

It's an honor to be here, Tim.

Dr. Posey’s Path To Leadership

SPEAKER_02

It really is. Yeah, well, tell us a little bit about your past. You you've sort of hung out in uh the church for a few years, right? Tell us a little bit about your path uh growing up, you know, we two o'clock, you know, two years old, three years old, start there now. And sort of tell us a little bit about some of the hot buttons with you.

SPEAKER_00

Uh yeah. Well, I grew up in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and um went to uh Jackson Junior High School, Manzano High School. For those of you who are listening out in New Mexico, yes. Um and so grew up there uh from a age of about 12. I wanted the this will be uh date my age, but uh uh there was a program called Marcus Welby MD. Once I started seeing that, I just wanted to be a Marcus Welby MD. I just want to be a doctor, general practitioner guy, made house calls, you know, do all those kind of things. So I pursued uh science, math, enjoyed that, played some tennis in junior high and high school. Um, and um and then uh I didn't know where to go uh to college. And one day I visited the counselor at the school and she said, What about Baylor? And I said, I never heard about Baylor. So it was a great thing. It changed my whole life because I met my wife there. Yeah, yeah. So I went to Baylor's pre-med student. Um uh was involved in the church growing up, uh, involved in the church and college.

SPEAKER_02

It was great. We had a, you know, we talked about on the show. We just had like a little closure on your leadership journey, right? Because you started at a church down there and then they needed to fill in uh you know. Last year, I didn't know.

SPEAKER_00

They were in between pastors. They asked me uh to fill in for them for a couple months, which I was honored to do, and that went extremely well.

SPEAKER_02

I still think it's great. It's like you your very beginnings, and then then you closed out after retirement, right?

SPEAKER_00

You know, and so anyway, I was a chemistry major at Baylor, pre-med, um, 86 hours into my chemistry degree after organic. I loved organic physics, calculus, I really enjoyed all those classes, but I just felt God calling me to not go to medical school and become a pastor in the Methodist Church. So I changed my major from chemistry to religion, got a degree in religion, a minor in chemistry, went to seminary and uh in Atlanta, Georgia at Emory University, and got my master's and doctorate from Emory University. Um, came back to Texas. Uh Diana and I got married in December of 77 while I was in school. She had just finished physical therapy school and in Memphis. And so we came back to Texas in 81 and been in churches of all sizes, uh, country churches, city churches, those kind of stuff. Finished my career um about three years ago. Uh retired. And uh, but then last year I was called to go back and help out First Methodist Waco, which I was honored to do. And uh that was a great way to finish the ministry officially. So it's awesome. But we've been doing this podcast, you know, the other podcast now for almost three years. Yeah, it's great. It's been fun.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. You were actually my pastor, and and and uh, you know, I I I we tell the story on the other show a lot, is I had this vision that we were gonna do a podcast together. The only problem is Dr. Posey was actively our pastor at the church, the head guy was leading the church. I'm like, well, this is gonna be a big conflict of interest. How's this gonna work? And then a whole series of events happened, and and luckily you retired like a few months later, and next thing you know, I I came up on the line. I stayed like the very last person on the line. The last line. And uh I just came up and I whispered in here. I'm like, I have this this vision, this dream keeps recurring that I need you to pray on it, and I need you to think about if this is something you want to do, and hand him my card. And he knew me, but not like he knows me now. And and uh a few months later he calls me and goes, Hey, let's fire it up. We did.

SPEAKER_00

And it's been great.

SPEAKER_02

It has been great, it's great, it's been great. Yeah, and on that podcast, we we talk a little bit about the biblical and then uh bring in the leadership principles. How do you use the some of the Bible verses and some of the different uh the books to uh you know lead your life and and daily leadership principles? And then we throw a lot of dad jokes, and we might have to throw a few dad jokes at the end of this just for uh you know things just for fun because you know Dr. Posey over here we we talk about he's got like 3,000 dad jokes over here, and uh, I probably got another five, six books over there on dad jokes. So we're loaded up with some dad jokes pretty heavily in this in this arena. So you want to throw one in real fast?

SPEAKER_00

Well, I not just one. I it's like laced potato chips. You cannot just have one dad joke. Did you hear about the hungry clock? No, he always goes back for seconds.

SPEAKER_02

That's great. Okay, but we have a lot of fun, so please check that one out, biblical leadership show.com. But hey, let's talk about this. You know, um, let's let's get into leadership. We talk a little bit about everything on this show. Uh this crosses over from construction to real estate to uh a lot of my speaker friends and leadership and and uh you know principles just for business and and to make you better in life. And and what uh what of what are some of the things that you know all those years you you spent like you know more than a few years, right? Uh as a pastor. Is there anything that really uh helped you uh in the church uh really increase? Because I know that we talk about it on the other show, how much you've increased in the leadership. I've increased like over the years. And is there anything that really brought any skills or anything uh from being part of the church that that has really brought you up to the level you are today?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, there has been. And uh growing up in the church in New Mexico, there really wasn't a lot of opportunities. Um I learned a lot about cars and how to work on cars from my dad, and uh enjoyed having a nice. I used to have a nice show truck, yeah. 55 uh yes, afford show truck, and uh had that one for a long time. But uh so I learned a lot about cars and always enjoyed working on cars. But I didn't have a lot of uh construction knowledge. Um and then uh it went to through college, still didn't have a whole lot of construction knowledge. Um I learned how to do a few things, but not in anything major. Uh but

Mission Work That Built Real Skills

SPEAKER_00

then when I was in seminary, um my wife and I uh took another couple and ten of our youth, because I was a youth director at a church, uh, on a mission trip. It was my very first mission trip. And there was a uh philosophical change uh in the church, which I think was very, very good um around sometime in the 70s. Uh I don't know what stimulated, but it was really, really good. Up till that time, missions was you wrote a check and sent it in and let other people do it.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

But around the mid-70s, there was a shift that you not only sent your money, but you would also do it yourself. You you were volunteering to go and work with Habitat for humanity. You were go volunteered to go on a mission trip and build a wheelchair ramp for somebody or repair a roof or those kind of things. So my very first mission trip uh when I was in seminary in Atlanta was up to with the Appalachian Mission Pro uh Appalachia Service Project. We went to eastern Kentucky and um we did some home repairs on some houses. Um and that was my first real experience. And so there were people there that began to teach me how to do some simple construction, uh, you know, how to use a square, how to use uh the power tools, how to use, you know, a hammer accurately, you know, those kind of things that uh they're not, you know, just you don't just some people just know I didn't have any experience in that. So it wasn't just me, but then I was helping to teach the teenagers as well, or I was watching and and the people were teaching us all. Um, and that that was my first experience with actually being on a mission trip like that lasted a week. Um but many mission trips later, many opportunities to work with Habitat for Humanity or other organizations, nonprofits, uh, I've learned some basic construction skills uh about that. Um and uh back in about 25 years ago, I built a helped build a I designed and helped build a greenhouse for my wife in our backyard. Nice. Uh yeah, and so so over the years, because there's opportunities now with nonprofits like Habitat and other organizations, um, there's opportunities. And one thing I really like about those organizations is not just about you going and watching other people do the work, is that they want you to do it, but they want to do it and teach you how to do it safely. So you're gonna wear a helmet, you're gonna wear eye protection, you're gonna do this. I remember when I was um at Baylor, I had run out of money and I was looking for a job. Uh, I didn't know if I was gonna be able to stay at Baylor. And uh a pastor friend of mine was the vice president, uh vice director, assistant director at the Methodist Children's Home there in Waco. And um he um asked me if I would be a part of an experiment where I would live on campus in one of the dorms was the Fondren Home Unit, and be a big brother to the 18 boys that lived in that home unit. And I said, sure. And they paid my, they gave me room and board for that experience. I still had to make some money for tuition, but but that was a big part of that. So I did that for a year, and the summer that we were there, I always wondered how do those drainage ditches, you know, before before zero turn mowers, how how were those drainage ditches cleaned out?

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Well, we learned we got swing blades, and I had 18 uh senior high uh kids, uh, sometimes more than that, uh, boys and girls. We would go out there with swing blades, and uh they would pack us a lunch, and we'd go out there all day working in the ditches and clearing and chopping down the weeds. And then there was a project, there was an abandoned house, and uh we were tasked to tear down the house. And so you learned a lot about how things were made by tearing something down because I didn't know how to build a house, I didn't know how to frame a door or you know, other kinds of things. Um and and so you learned a lot by tearing out the she-rock and going, oh, that's how that's done. Right because I had no experience, you've had decades of experience, I had none. And so doing those things over time, mission trip after mission trip, working with different organizations, I've learned some basic construction skills. Now, do I have the skill to go build a house? No, I don't, but I know people who do. And so it's been giving me confidence to do some basic things, learn some power tool uh skills, and uh feel confident about doing stuff around the house, or if the church says, hey, this lady needs a wheelchair ramp, I I can go volunteer and do that uh just because of my experience over time.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that's

Teaching Kids Practical Confidence

SPEAKER_02

great. Yeah, I I I was telling a story actually at class last week because somebody asked me how I got in the construction business, and and I've told quite a few people, but there's I I was a business person, you know, I didn't grow up family business or anything, and and I really didn't have experience in the construction business, sort of like that is um, but then I I was good at sales, right? So I I would start this and and uh uh you know people would say, Can you do this? Um I'm a yes guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure. I need cash, I need money in the bank, right? Absolutely. And uh so then you know I made it all the way up to building houses, and and I would literally started out remodeling houses. I'd literally write my uh plumber a check for like 20 grand for the project and hand it to him. I go, the only one condition of this is I work for you for the next week. So whatever you want me to do, I'll be here at eight o'clock. Just tell me what you want me to do. Um, and I do that. And then the next person would be my electrician. I'd write him a check, hand it to him, one condition, then framer, and then I'd start framing houses. And I I learned it. I don't have to be an expert, but I have to know enough where I'm going out to be able to sell something with a little bit of knowledge. So that's that's how I actually started my construction journey way back, way way ahead as well. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Well, so one thing I forgot. I had a really good friend, Bruce, growing up. We met each other in Boy Scouts, um, but um his father was a professor of engineering, electrical engineering at University of New Mexico. And we when when we were juniors, he decided to build his own house. And he hired us to be the grunt. Okay, so we cleaned up the yard, but we also worked with electrician, we ran a lot of wire. I had never run wire before, I didn't know what it was, I didn't know how to do it. We ran a lot of wire, and then we worked with a sheetrock crew, and I learned how to hang sheetrock. Right. And so just the following that, but I was willing to learn anything just because I wanted the knowledge. I had no idea that it would help me later with mission trips for church. I had no clue about it. I never did electricity with that, but I hung some sheetrock, you know, we would do some framing just because I had that experience. So I would say, um, you know, if you have someone new on the job, sometimes you hire somebody and they think they know everything. Just be patient and and you know, or if you have an opportunity, bring a young person, a teenager on the site with you someday, do something and teach them some basic skills. I'd tell you, those are skills that you can use the rest of your life. Yeah. And I just think that's a valuable leadership lesson, not just for you, but for them to say, hey, I got to go hang sheetrock today, or I I learned how to, you know, run wire, you know, drill holes in the studs and run the wire through and do this and run the wire to the light or hang a fan, you know, those kind of things. Yeah, I think it's amazing.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and you know, those are skills that everybody needs. And and it thinks back because I I my dad was hands-on and we did a lot of projects together. And uh, I I but I think of the girl I dated way back when, and and uh it was so funny. She would be ready to go out, she'd be all fancy, took a shower, she was getting ready to go out, and her dad, her dad was hardcore, right? And be like, hey, you can go out. I have no problem with it. The only problem before you leave, I need you to go change your tire. And she's like, What are you talking about? I need you to go over, jack the car up, take your take your tire off, come get me, let me see it, and then I need you to put it back on, and then you can leave. And he would make her do that before she went out and just make sure she had the skills to do things. Yes, and she was like so mad. But I mean, she goes, she respects it later on in life, right? But I mean, she was so mad at the time, she was ready to go out, all fancy dressed. She had to go get some some work pants on and get out there and pull her tire off and put it back on, jack the car up just to make sure that he had those life skills. And uh, it's pretty amazing. So that's one of the ways that we learn. I think it's so important. And I try to work with my kids to really give them, you know, a lot of those skills, and and uh anyway I can educate them or pull them to the side and and have them help me. That's just it's invaluable information. So it's true.

SPEAKER_00

Before our kids left for college, one of the things we wanted to be sure that they knew how to do was change a tire, a flat tire in a car because you never know you could have one. And you might have triple A, but it might be hours before they get there. And and so we just didn't want them to be in danger. Uh make sure you check your spare, you know, all that kind of stuff. And and they did, and they were willing to do it. And uh so we felt that was one of the many things we taught them. So, parents, please, you know, um teach your kids uh because someday they won't be with you, and then it's too late to teach them, you know, and so it's the perfect time. They might not want to learn.

SPEAKER_02

They might not want to learn.

SPEAKER_00

They might not want to learn, but you know, if they had a flat tire on the freeway or anywhere and they know how to change a tire, they will thank you because it's like uh you're not stuck. And this day and time, you never can't tell what's gonna happen on the road.

SPEAKER_02

You just like when my kids get to age, I gotta go find somebody who has a stick chef car, right? I mean, because they have to learn how to drive it. Most kids don't know how to drive it nowadays, right?

SPEAKER_00

10,000 cars or stickers.

SPEAKER_02

It's gonna have to go buy me an old car so they can teach them how to drive the stick shift cars. Three on a tree or four on the floor, you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, it's awesome.

SPEAKER_02

All right. Uh, did

Mentors And Reproducing Leaders

SPEAKER_02

you have a mentor? You you you're a big fan of mentors? You have a mentor growing up or anything?

SPEAKER_00

I had not not until I got to college. Didn't I feel I had a mentor? I had really two mentors. Uh both were pastors. One was the pastor of the church, uh, Reverend Dick Freeman, and he was a pastor of First Methodist Waco for a long time, like 20 something years, 25 years. But I learned a lot about preaching from him. Um and uh eventually led me to be preaching without notes and speaking without notes just because I felt eye contact um and speaking to a person, not at a person, was or you know, feeling like we're in a conversation together. I thought was real important. The other person was uh pastor, he was uh the director, assistant director of the Methodist Children's Home, Roy, uh Troy Kleinsmith. Uh he was more of a pastor, you know, who taught me the importance of the pastoral side, not just the preaching side, the pastoral side of ministry. Um great friend, mentor, uh, long past college, and uh just a great man of God. Both of those people were enabled me not just to learn from them, but to learn how to teach others to do the same thing. Um, and so I think that's what a good leader does. They don't just teach to teach, they teach to reproduce, you know, the next generation after that. The people that you teach, how are they gonna teach others? And and they were really, really good at at doing that. And so I just appreciate them. They're both gone, but they were just great influences in my life.

SPEAKER_02

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it was really what about you?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, no, I've I I've had multiple mentors come in and out of my life, and you know, and and I I I think back when I was young, there's a lot of people that w stepped up, try to be my mentor, and I was like, I just you know, I sort of blew them off. I wish I could go back in time to see. You know, and and some of the things, the opportunity. I I'll never forget this one, and you know, back. This is back in the 80s, right? Amway, right? Oh, yeah. Huge, right? And uh one of my guys, I was running nightclubs and restaurants and everything. And he was one of my uh people that came into my restaurant or one of the restaurants or nightclubs, and and he goes, Tim, I got an opportunity for you. I'm like, No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Not for me, right? Not for me. Uh he goes, just do me one favor. Come over to my house every week this week. Meet me at my house at three o'clock every day this week. I'm like, all right, that's fine. He was he was a good friend and everything. I'm like, not a problem. I show up, I go, what you need? He goes, I want you to walk out to my mailbox. I'd walk out to his mailbox and get his mail, and he goes, now open this right there. And I'd open it up. And this is an 80s, and there'd be a check for $10,000. And I was like, okay, that's pretty good, right? He goes, I'll see you tomorrow. He goes, and he'd come back the next day. I'd come in, he'd come to me, he goes, go get my mail. He'd come in there. There were two checks in there, one for $7,000, one for $12,000. And then I went every day this week. There was one day that the check didn't come, but four days that week he got checks from from Manway and just different things. And it was like $30,000, 40 grand that week. And I was like, what? He goes, I'm not going to try to convince you, but if this doesn't, I don't know what does. And I was like, so I thought about it, I'm like, still, that's not for me. That just wasn't my thing. I didn't feel you know. But yeah, if I could go back, oh heck yeah, he just would have just sort of went, okay, let me help you build this up and I'll and I was just like, yeah. But he goes, that was that was his selling technique. It's just let me see the money. And then and uh yeah, yeah, if I could go back and have him as a mentor, I'd life would be different, right? And had to work so hard, you know, over the course of you know that. But it's just one of those things that I think about that one quite a bit. I just mentioned it in a story a while back in in one of my classes. I was like, wow, that's if I could go back and do that, you know, and in the 80s making 30, 40 grand a week, that was huge, right? That's like making hundreds of thousands of dollars today. So all right. Um, so let me let me ask you, you know, leading a church for for a few years that you did, you know, um, how did it it shape your view of of influences and responsibility and and maybe the character of people? Because I mean, I'm sure you've seen a lot of different characters, sort of like business. Church is a business, it's church, you know, and and and you know, you know, just because you don't you have employees, but a lot of your parishioners they're they're very unique as far as the different personalities, and and I'm sure you ran across the spectrum of of of this as far as the people that work for the church to uh people that were uh in the uh the audience when you were preaching on Sundays.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. And

Why Relationships Matter Most

SPEAKER_00

so I think one of the hardest lessons I learned, um, and I don't really uh maybe know why it took me so long, but even though I had a great mentor in Raymond Klein Smith, uh talking about the pastoral side at the seminary I went to at Candler School of Theology there at Emory, um, I was there four years. I did all my classwork for my doctorate while I was there, did my dissertation afterwards, but but um we had to be a chaplain somewhere um every like we didn't have class on Monday, so normally we had we were in the field doing chaplain work on Monday. So I did that one semester. I was a chaplain at Tegrady Memorial Hospital, County Hospital there in Atlanta and spend the night at the hospital every three to four days. Uh even with all that experience, when I got into the pastoral ministry, I actually had my own church, I still didn't connect the dots on how important building relationships was with the people. I I focused on the preaching and the business side of the church and not necessarily the relationship side of the church. And was something I didn't necessarily like to do, go to hospitals, even though I spent a lot of time in hospitals and school and counsel, you know, doing chaplain work and everything. It wasn't one of the things that I seemed to value, the importance of the relationships. Um the more I grew and matured as a pastor, the more I realized how important really the relationship is in the ministry. And so um, and the longer that you're at a church, the more those relationships can be um you can pour yourself into relationships. So you don't just pour yourself into the preaching and the business side, but you gotta make sure that you pour yourself into people. And that was for some reason a hard lesson for me to learn. Uh I learned it, you know, over time. Uh I wish, you know, I had learned it a lot sooner. You know, you talk about going back. I wish I could go back and, you know, not make some of the mistakes I made for because of that low priority. But I think as far as leadership, I think good leaders invest in their people, not just in their vision, not just in their bottom line. They they pour themselves into their people. Um and uh I think that was one of the biggest lessons, you know, because when I got out of school, yes, you go preaching, you yes, you do a little bit of you know, the business side of the church, but I just didn't click with me, even though I had a lot of exposure, you know. I did my doctorate degree on holy communion and pastoral care. So I had a lot of experience in that area, but it just I just didn't connect the dots.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Um and when I finally did, it made such a huge difference in my ministry, how I approached it, how I saw it, all those kind of things. And and so I'd say to anybody who's listening, who's beginning their career, or it's never too late to to not just focus on the bottom line, not just focus on the vision and the product, focus on your people, pour yourself into your people, um, and it will make a huge, huge difference.

SPEAKER_02

Right. Yeah, and and I am 100%. I think that's what you you have to have the team that that buys into the vision, the mission, and and buys into you as a person. So uh this next question is a little thought-provoking. Well, what do you know? You better answer it then. Right. Wow.

What Leaders Need To Unlearn

SPEAKER_02

What do you think leaders need to unlearn? What do you think they need to unlearn?

SPEAKER_00

How how much time do we got? Exactly. Right.

SPEAKER_02

As much as you want.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I would say just off the top of my head, that one of the I think you have to be a a pretty focused individual to be a leader. Okay. You gotta focus on the end goal, the long game, you know, where are we gonna be in three to five years? You gotta focus on that. I think sometimes uh as someone once said, um don't be so heavily minded you're that you're no earthly good. Okay. And sometimes I think leaders are so focused on the bottom line or the the next thing that's coming out, which is not a bad thing. But like I just said a few minutes ago from my own experience, they put the people secondary. And and I'm thinking if you could elevate the importance of the people, um then the other things will will take care of itself. I mean, you gotta focus on the bottom line, you gotta focus on your product, you gotta focus on quality control, you gotta focus on supply chain, all those kind of things, okay? But I think sometimes the schools don't teach the importance of the relationships. If a salesman is out there, oh it doesn't matter what you're selling, you could be selling widgets, you can sell uh bowling balls, it doesn't matter. But if you don't build a relationship with your people, you know, your your clients, your whatever, um, you're not gonna do as good a job as if you invest in your people. I don't know what that means for you, but you know, I would start having, I mean, I met with some of my staff every week, some every other week, several it just depends on what their role was. Um, but I would start having lunch with people in the congregation. I'd start just having meetings with them just to get to know them. I I remember um at the church, it finally took me a couple years to figure this out, but I would go to a church and I'd say, okay, I'd like to be in everyone's home. If you want me to be in your home, I'd like to be in everyone's home. I have no agenda except I'd like for you to have dessert ready. You know, yeah, of course. Let's be there then. Let's keep let's go. I should have I just said that as a joke, but I'll tell you that next year I visited probably I don't know how many. I'd have two visits a week. I'd have my secretary set up the schedule. I was tried to stay there for 30 minutes. I said, I have no agenda, just want to get to know you, you know. Just to I just want to get to know your story. The churches that I did what that with, which was really the last three, maybe, right? Paid huge dividends. You know, one church I was in fix, and I gained a little late too. Because I said, No, I'm just joking. Well, they didn't take it as a joke. They didn't take it as a joke. You know, some of them had never had a pastor in their home.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You know, and so the last church I was in 10 years, the one before that 14 years. Um, and and so, you know, when you invest in your people, it's gonna pay dividends for years to come. And so I would think it's not that they have to unlearn that. They have to raise the priority of that, investing in your people. So take them out to lunch, have a sit-down meeting with them, do just pick their brain, you know, do whatever it is. Um, talk about your families, whatever you can. You know, some people you can't talk about that in your in your business, but get to know your people, get to know them where they click. There's a a real uh great book that I've used many, many times for pre-marriage counseling and marriage counseling called The Five Love Languages. And and uh if you haven't ever read that book, the the leadership principles are so good because sometimes we lead people according to what we think they need instead of what they know they need. And so you got to know what each person, how each person ticks, what motivates them. Sometimes it's words, sometimes it's a note, sometimes it's little gifts you get, whatever it is. You gotta learn that so you can encourage and motivate your people and know that you're invested in their lives, and that can make a huge difference in your company.

SPEAKER_02

That's awesome. Um, one final question. Yeah. What is what's for lunch? Yeah, that's exactly right. We we'll address that one here in a second. We've

The Power Of Self-Evaluation

SPEAKER_02

been recording here for a little bit. Um, what's one question every leader should ask themselves more often?

SPEAKER_00

Wow, that's a really deep one. Only one question? Well, you know, how about that? Uh I would say, how long have I done a serious self-evaluation? How long has it been? Right. Okay. Um, and who's done that? I mean, if I do it myself, I'm I sometimes I'm more flattering than I you know I need to be. And we're not necessarily uh overlook some of our weaknesses where you just kind of push them under the rug. So I think it would be good. We had to do that in the church once a year. We had to we had a personnel committee, we would do a self-evaluation, they would do an evaluation of us pretty blunt, you know, and and that just makes you a better person. So I think whatever you need to do to do a self-evaluation, not to criticize yourself, not to you know put yourself down, but how can you be better? You know, everybody can be better at something. Um, and I don't know what that is for you, but I learned it over the years what it was better for me. Sometimes it was my speaking, sometimes it was my meeting agenda, sometimes it was how I made decisions or I didn't have enough people pull in to make a decision. So over time, it's good to have an evaluation of your leadership ability and uh and take that as something. How do how can I be better? So that's what I'd say.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I've done that as an executive coach, been pulled in, you know, not only as you know ongoing, but if there's a problem, you know, a lot of times I'll I'll do the same thing. I'll interview the leader, have a questionnaire, and then I'll have everybody on the staff do the same thing. And you'll you'd be surprised how much of their disconnect between the two answers are. You know, the five employees are spot on the same, but the the manager's like, I'm great. I don't know what these people are crazy, right? You know, and and uh yeah, it's one thing that uh you need to have a secondary opinion, like you said, you know, have your employees have the same, have somebody a third party come in to do it, uh, where they can just compile the answers, and it's none of this handwriting and online computers and all that stuff. You know, so many other times happen.

SPEAKER_00

So well, I did uh staff evaluations once a year. Okay. Um if someone was on probation, I'd I'd do it like every week or every two weeks, but it was like, well, why not have an evaluation of me? Which they did. I mean, it was it was required, but it was a good thing, you know, to do it once a year, and you know where you can improve um and just be better. Yeah. And so the way you do it is so important. It's not there to criticize or bash you, you know, it's there to tell you, okay, these are the things I think you could do better. You know, these things you're doing great, these things I think you can do better. So let's let's work on them. You bet.

SPEAKER_02

That's awesome. Yeah. All right,

Rapid-Fire Picks And Dad Jokes

SPEAKER_02

to close out, I do a couple things a little bit different. I've got two books here. Oh my god. 3,000s on them.

SPEAKER_00

3,000 dad jokes. You beat me out. You got 6,000. We only have 600. My goodness.

SPEAKER_02

Um, we'll we'll I'm gonna ask you some questions here, and then we'll we'll do some dad jokes to the end because that's what we need to do. Four questions, okay. All right, so I have this uh 3,000 pick, one questions, pick this or that. So give me a number between one and 3,000.

SPEAKER_00

Four. My favorite number.

SPEAKER_02

Four. Uh Dracula or Frankenstein and why?

SPEAKER_00

Ooh. I'd say Frankenstein.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, how come?

SPEAKER_00

Because walk like this. Or walk this way. I still remember that. Lock this line. I like that line. All right, another number? Okay, how about uh 372? 382? No, how about 351? Oh, three. I had a 351 Cleveland in my show trip. Yes, I did. That was a nice engine. 351 Cleveland. I have a 351 modified in my my Bronco. I'm ready to go. There you go. What do you got? 351.

SPEAKER_02

Uh 351 solar power or battery power? Oh, solar power.

SPEAKER_00

Battery power?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Ooh, that's a very powerful question. Wow. Um, I would say uh battery powered.

SPEAKER_02

Battery powered.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. I don't know why I said that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I'm sort of battery powered. I've I'm sort of a combination. I like the solar power that recharges the battery, so I know I'm good. If we had to let it go in. Yeah. All right, give me one more number.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. How about um 2160? 210. 2160. Okay, here we go.

SPEAKER_02

260. Okay, what do we got? All right. I have great. No, this is good. It ties into a lot of stuff. If you don't know anything about um Dr. P here, he he does triathlons. Yes, and he he likes triathlons. So this one came up as row machine or spinning bike and why because I like to go places.

SPEAKER_00

So I oh a row machine. No, I'd be on the water. A spinning bike. I think a row machine, machine or spinning bike.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Ooh, I've done spinning bikes a long, long time. Yeah. Okay. Um, a row machine, I think better body workout. But you know, yeah, that's I don't know.

SPEAKER_02

Tough.

SPEAKER_00

Tough, tough one. I do try to do both. Yeah, I do both.

SPEAKER_02

You do both. I do both. All right. So I've got some more questions, but before we get to that, let's throw some dad jokes in there. Just as uh respect for uh our dad jokes on our other show, and uh, we'll get to asking you three final questions after about three or four dad jokes. Let's see what we can do. Rapid fire. He's got like 341, I know these things, on his phone, right? So let alone the 4,000 in front of him over here at the studio.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Yes. So you know, I I said that I was a religion major, chemistry minor, but I also studied uh um dad jokes in college.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, yeah. All right, nice.

SPEAKER_00

It was uh they offered a major in psychology.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, that's a dumb one. Oh, what else you got?

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so my I had you know how your phone you can take a picture or you can take video? Yeah. So yesterday, my phone somehow accidentally took five-minute video of my shoes.

SPEAKER_02

Five minutes of your shoes?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, it was some really great footage.

SPEAKER_02

All right, I'll give you that one to you. Okay, one more. You want me to do that? Yeah, one more, one more. Give me one more, and we'll get into these three final questions. Okay, three minutes. Maybe one final dad joke to end it.

SPEAKER_00

So okay. Why do pancakes always win at baseball?

SPEAKER_02

Why do pancakes always win at baseball? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

Because they have the best batter.

SPEAKER_02

I should have known that one. So all right. Okay, you got one more, but save it up. I'll give you a number between one and three thousand.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Now we get into two thousand nine hundred and ninety-nine. Ooh, two thousand nine hundred. You didn't say three thousand, you said between those. No, it's that's exactly what thousand nine hundred and ninety-nine and a half.

SPEAKER_02

All right, here's your question. One of your three questions. What is something you wish you could avoid? What is something you wish you could avoid?

SPEAKER_00

Something I wish I could avoid.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Joy suckers.

SPEAKER_02

Joy suckers. People we we talked about those, right?

SPEAKER_00

So some people just suck the joy out of the room. Yeah, yeah. I wish I could avoid it.

SPEAKER_02

Energy vampires, exactly right. Yeah, yeah, we talked about that earlier on the show. So I got two more questions. Two more numbers.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my goodness. Okay, 999.

SPEAKER_02

Well, look at that. I was almost switched over to it. 999 would be how often do you self-reflect?

SPEAKER_00

Pretty much daily.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, pretty much, right? Yeah. That's a good answer. Pretty much daily. Yeah, that's a good answer. All right, one more, one more number.

SPEAKER_00

Number one.

SPEAKER_02

Number. No, two, because it's between one and three now. Okay, number two. Number two. Yes. Ooh, that would have been number one versus number two. Number two is what is your greatest fear?

SPEAKER_00

Our greatest fear?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Ooh, that's a good question. Yeah. I don't know what my greatest fear would be right now. I really don't know.

SPEAKER_02

You don't? Uh-uh. Well, how about we take the number one, your first choice? Okay. What is your idea of perfect happiness?

SPEAKER_00

Perfect happiness. Um on this planet. And heaven would be my number one thing. But on this planet, being with my wife on the beach. I like it. That that that would be it. Yeah, that's great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

You're a beach person, then I take it. No. No. I like the mountains. She's a beach person.

SPEAKER_00

Well, we just like the beach. We don't go there often, you know? Yeah. I would prefer being in the mountains on a hike. So a hike with her, bit being being with her. Just yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I'm good with that. Yeah.

National Parks Goals And Farewell

SPEAKER_02

And if you don't know, uh I I know these things. Uh how many uh state national parks and national parks have you been to? You're making a tour of all your nationals, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yes. Um, we have done our goal is to finish all the ones in the continental United States. Yes. Um, we have two left: Big Bend in Texas and Acadia in Maine. And so we'll finish those two this year. And so we'll have gone to all of them. Um, I think there's 64, and after these two, we'll have been to 53 of all the national parks. That's so awesome. Yeah. It's great. We've been doing it. It takes us about 15 years. Now, when our kids were growing up, we took them to all the states. Okay. I mean Alaska and Hawaii, yes. Um, but um we didn't do for the national parks. We were just going to a different state, not the capital, just the state. And so we did that. Then after they left for college, we said, where are we gonna go now? Let's say, well, let's start doing national parks. So we started doing national parks and we're almost complete with that journey for kind of there's some in Alaska that we know that we will never uh get to. Because you have to take a plane, it's way remote. It's like up in the Arctic Circle. It's like no. Let's do it. Come on. There's one in American Smo we probably won't go to. But we can't wait to go to the Virgin Islands. There's a national park there. That's right. We're going to go to Acadia in the fall this year to see the leaves change and stuff. And so it's just going to be great. It's just going to enjoy it a lot. We enjoy traveling. We just enjoy driving, being together. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Same. We I enjoy traveling. My family, that's that's that's great. You know, that's one of the big things I strive and I work so hard to do so we can travel as a family. So well, Dr. Posey, thank you. Hey, thank you so much, Tim. I appreciate it. You got another dad joke over there you want to throw at me or anything. Are we breathing? Of course I have another dad joke. We got one more, probably close out.

SPEAKER_00

I was at the store the other day, and I was trying to tell the cashier a joke. Yes. It just didn't register. Oh my gosh. We got the clap in the morning. Well, thank you, Tim. I've enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you for joining me over here on this. And uh, you know, check us out on our other show, uh Biblical Leadership Show.com. You can find us there. Go to Tim Lanceford.com forward slash podcast. Find all our podcasts. We've actually got a new podcast we're gonna be working on in the next couple weeks together as a new project. Um, so we're excited about that one. But other than that, guys, um have a great rest of the day. And I do have one last joke. Oh, you do have one last joke. I love it.

SPEAKER_00

Listen yesterday I burned 2,000 calories. You know, that's the last time I leave the brownies in the oven while I take a nap.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, no kidding. I could crave, I'm craving a little brownie right now. That'd be great. So um, all right. Well, thank you. Um, appreciate you. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for coming and hanging out with me in the studio. I always enjoy being with you. And uh, everybody else, have a great rest of the day. Go ahead and take us out on this show.

SPEAKER_00

Hey, make it a great day.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you, guys.