Ep. 8 - Naughty Food Preservation Practices & Nice Pond Management Tips

In this episode of Stone County Extension Saves the World, Tyler and Anna get onto the topic of pet peeves.  Anna talks about the dangers that could happen when following improper canning information found on the internet. Tyler discusses pond management tips for controlling aquatic weeds and what can be done in the winter. Also stocking fish for recreation and fish that can be stocked for biological weed control.  

Transcript

All right. Welcome to the Stone County Extension Saves the World podcast. I'm Tyler Caston.

I'm Anna Harlan.

And we're back again and week after Thanksgiving. Did you have a pretty good one?

I did. I had a great Thanksgiving break. It's kind of hard to come back sometimes.

Yeah. I had some time off, took the whole week and it went by pretty quick. Yeah. I wish work weeks went by that fast sometimes.

They typically do.

Yeah, in five, seven days, or five days, they go by, they go by all the same. I guess it's all, what is your perception?

Well, I perceive time to be going really quickly these days.

They say that it's, you know, as you get older, when you're younger, time goes by slower because it's more like 10 years, that's your whole life, whereas 10 years is half our life, so time goes back.

Gosh, almost 1/4.

Yeah.

Well, I feel like time's, I must be getting old because time is really scooting along.

Yeah, it'll be Christmas before we know it.

Yeah, and I'm not.

And it'll be a new year, new programs. Got any ideas of what you're going to do this next year, program-wise?

I usually hold a lot of my brain thoughts till genuinely. Because I feel like if I get a little time off, then I feel more refreshed and ready to go. But we've kind of talked about a few different little ideas for the new year.

Yeah, a few of us ag agents will get together and we'll plan some stuff. I hope you plan probably a beef cattle program, but we'll see what all we get done. Maybe a few things. And did you do any deer hunting?

I didn't. Typically we have my mom's Thanksgiving on Thanksgiving Day, but we didn't this year and that just kind of put me on a bad weather day and kind of a fair weather gal when it comes to hunting deer. So it's windy and rainy and.

If it's windy and rainy, they ain't going to be up and moving. They might move after the rain. Like that's what I tried to take advantage of one day is get out there and then it was going to be a little break. And I was like, well, maybe they'll get up and be moving right after that rain, but I didn't see anything. Then I sat out there all day on Wednesday, seeing a little buck and like he come running through and I like threw the scope up on him and he, I had stopped him like, and he turned and looked at me and he's inside his ears. And I was like, yeah.

Let you get a little bigger.

Yeah, let you go. And then I seen a few spikes. I kind of rattled. I had one come up on me, like get real close. Them spikes, they're stupid. Like, I mean, I was just kind of set up against a tree and like I put on, you know what a shimog is.

No.

It's like you've seen like in desert areas what they use.

Oh, okay.

Cover their face and stuff. I bought one. It's like green and black and like I'll just kind of throw it over my head so it kind of breaks up my pattern and I set up against a tree and I kind of rattled there and I kind of just happened to catch something in my, what's that?

Peripheral.

Yeah, and kind of looked in there. He stood a little spike and he's like looking all kind of.

He's ready to fight.

Yeah. And he's like looking around and I was like, man, don't come any closer. You'll see me. Just kind of set up against a tree and he kind of just walk. He got within like 20 feet.

Oh, wow.

Like 20 feet. He was close. And he finally, he knew, I guess probably caught my wind finally. And he's kind of like, he never blew or nothing, but he got me.

They were moving last night. With the wintery mix coming through, I was driving home and I thought it was going to get me a deer one way or another.

Yeah, they probably move and they know when the season ends, ended Sunday. They're like, sure enough, we'll be moving. It's December 1st.

Well, interesting thing. In my mind, I thought you could eat deer that had CWD. I thought you could eat that meat.

Yeah, I thought at one time they, said use precautions.

Well, now they do not want you to eat deer meat with a CWD deer. So that would be something to really try to make sure and get your deer checked. And I know not a lot are getting the samples done. And it doesn't mean that the deer is going to look bad. And so that was the person I was talking to today. Their deer looked perfectly healthy. And they brought it in. I don't know if they're doing a European mount. And they tested it and were surprised that it tested positive. And their incubation period's two years for that disease to maybe show signs on the animal. You know, for them to have said it was okay and now it's not okay. I worry that a lot of people still assume that it's fine because I did.

Yeah. And so I probably I didn't really think of it as a priority. I would have just ate it.

But now I would get my sample done.

So that's a good idea, folks. They're into hunting. Good idea to get your meat tested for CWD and stuff.

No, just take a small sample of the spinal column.

And it's not recommended to eat if it tests positive, so.

Correct.

That's sad. So with recording a podcast, we're trying to come up with topics, what we want to talk about each week. And we're like, oh, I don't know.

Yeah, we weren't really feeling anything in particular today.

What could we talk about? Because we're trying, we've been experimenting, doing different things, having different episodes, kind of see what works. We're going to wrap up what we're calling season one here, maybe do a couple more episodes after this one, and then we'll go on Christmas break. And then after the first of the year, come back with season 2 and probably do some different things. We've talked about maybe getting some folks on, like getting a guest to come on and kind of talk about stuff. If you are listening, have any ideas, be sure to reach out to us. We'd be happy to have people on, especially related to agriculture or old farmers, that would be cool. But what we thought we'd talk about today is like, we should talk about pet peeves because we had a couple of.

Had a few occur.

Had a couple occur. Things always happen, it seems, on a Monday, especially a Monday after you've been gone a week, it's like, it can build up. But do you want to go first or do you want me to go first?

You go first because I was going to go through a long line of things.

A long line of pet peeves.

As far as food preservation goes, I was just going to go through several social media posts and go through multiple pet peeves of mine. But that's one that usually gets me is food preservation.

Well, so pet peeve of mine is that kind of brought this on was a phone call we had earlier. But it's like when people want you to reaffirm what they've already got going on. They don't want to hear the research about it, the research-based information. They just want you to tell them that it's cool to do what they were.

That sounds great. Yeah, that sounds great. You know exactly what to do. Do that.

And so what brought this on had a little old lady call me So the phone rang like three times and we tried to answer it and it's like a **** dial almost.

I was thinking it was prank call at this point.

Yeah, and so then called and I guess she had bad service because I got on the phone with her. She yelled like, she's like, I.

Want to speak to Tyler Casting?

That's like I could hear.

Almost exactly how it sounded.

And so I answered the phone and she's kind of saying something that I can't really understand, but I heard her say, Weeds in ponds, and I like to mess with ponds, and I've gotten pretty good at knowing how to kill some of them weeds. The thing is, it's, December, a lot of them, and we've just, we had kids got out of school yesterday because of sleet and snow. We've had some frost, and a lot of times during the wintertime, that kills a lot of our, those aquatic weeds. they die back, doesn't kill them. Sure, they may come back in the spring, but not much you can do for them in December. But she's like, I was out there at my pond and I saw this weed that I'd never seen before and I'm wanting rid of it, but back up a little bit. So she's like, I've got weeds in ponds. I couldn't really hear And so I was like, you've got weeds in ponds? And she's like, yeah. And I was like, are they still there? Because if they were, I'd go out and identify them and then come up with a plan. Because again, it's December. I wouldn't imagine that those weeds would still be there. Maybe like if they were cat tails, but that's like the first thing she said.

They're not cat tails. They're not anything I've seen before.

Well, I was like, are they still there? And she's like, who?

Who's there?

I was like, the weeds. Are the weeds still in the pond?

And she's like, well, I haven't been down there in a while, but I seen them back during the summer and my friend's got a pond and she had them too. There's still weeds in her pond. So I imagine they're still there.

I was like, well, are you wanting like a herbicide to kill it with herbicide?

And she's like, no, poisons, no poisons.

And I was like, okay, I mean, that's kind of common. People don't want to spray herbicides because they're worried about it getting in on them if you don't. And some people don't have the ability. And I could tell she's an old lady, probably not going to be able to go out and spray her pond. Is old lady bad to say?

Well, I mean.

What's the correct term?

I don't know, a senior, an elderly.

She was an elderly lady. And I could tell, so she's likely not going to be able to go out. But I usually do that. I'll go out.

I was going to say you help.

Yeah, I go out and help and like I'll treat the ponds. I call them demonstrations. I'll spray different chemicals to see, okay, this works. I may mix up the rate, like I'll do a 1% or a 2% or a half percent according to the label and just kind of up, you know, if it gives a range. Yeah, you learn for each of those. And then use it to learn and we're both benefiting out of it. And I can tell other people that hey, I sprayed this pond in it. Look, it worked. Or no, I wouldn't spray that. It didn't work well. But so I do that for people.

No, I don't want to spray any herbicide. No poison.

And I was like, okay. Well, then she got on to the reason she had called and she's like, and this is where I thought it was a prank call. You know, somebody's pranking me. I want.

My friend has a couple of beavers in her pond and it looks like an ice skating rink. It's so clear. How do you get, how can I get somebody to bring me a couple beavers?

They must have saw your scuff post.

I was like, I don't know anybody that trap beavers, but I mean, you could always like try to improve beaver habitat to hopefully track them there is what I was thinking. But I was like, maybe you could call such and such, Game and Fish. They deal with wildlife. Perhaps someone has a nuisance beaver and that somehow, that's what I was thinking. Somehow maybe a game warden will end up with a beaver and you wanted a beaver to come to your pond, maybe Game and Fish should hook you up. And so that's what I was thinking in my mind, but I was like, maybe, what about Game and Fish? Because I'm just throwing out, solutions trying to have this way. Yeah.

And she's like, no, I've done called all these agencies and they said to call you.

I was like, what? And then, so it's like, well, okay. Well, do you want me to come out and look at the pond? And she didn't say yes or no. She just kind of got on the subject of, is there any way that I can control this without poison? And I was thinking grass carp, depending on what the weed is, because grass carp is a good biological control if you're talking a little bit of educational on ponds. So say you've got some weeds and you've heard of grass carp and want to put in a few grass carp. The recommended stocking rate on grass carp is about 5. If it's just about fingerling, I don't know what all sizes like you'd sell them in, but probably like 8 to 10 inches. If you've got bass in your pond, you'd want them to be a little bit larger. So those bass don't eat them right away.

How many, how, what's the size that those five, is that per acre?

Yeah, 5 per acre of pond.

Okay.

And so they'll get in there and they'll clean up submerged weeds pretty well underneath the water. Like if it's emergent or kind of like cattails or water lilies or water primrose or water shield, people have put them in there hoping to control like duckweed or water mill. It won't eat any of those. It's going to eat like underneath the water like hydrilla, agaria, stuff like that. If it's growing underwater, that's what they'll control pretty well. They also, they grow, they eat a lot those first five years, but then they get so big and once they get real big, they don't consume a lot and it's a good idea to take them out and restock every five years. So, well, I was thinking that while she's talking to me and she's like, well, I had some grass carp and it was, they worked real well. And I was like, well, okay, well, when's the last time you'd stocked them? Because I was thinking, if it's been over five years, I.

Don't know, the last time I'd done it, but some guy, he caught one and removed it out and then I stocked it.

It's been... I was like, well, grasscopper work, depending on the type of weed it is. And then I was like, another thing that would work would be like to use an aquatic dye to hopefully shade out that pond and keep the plant from getting sunlight and growing up in there. And usually how those aquatic dyes work is on the label, it says they'll treat like up to an acre, but you've got to retreat like ever 60 or 90 days. So, and they're like 60 bucks for a gallon of stuff.

Well, she's like, I got a, it's a third acre pond.

And I was like, well, that's great, because you could buy a gallon of that dye and use it three times, and it hopefully helped reduce the weed control throughout your pond throughout the summer. And I was like, perfect solution. And she's like, well.

It's already shaded on three sides.

I wanted to be like, lady, it's getting sunlight somewhere.

Yeah, or it wouldn't have these weeds.

Or it wouldn't have weeds. And so she threw out that idea, and then she was like, it's been like, I've only been to this pond two times in the last year. And so I haven't really, I don't want to go out there and treat it, I was kind of like, dang.

Then why are you calling?

Yeah, and so, but then, what she wanted was to me to tell her, get you some beavers and then tell her, here's my source of beavers for you. I'm sorry.

If you call so and so, he delivers.

I don't know. who has beavers. Well, finally, it's like, well, might, you know, might call this number and maybe get somebody that might could.

Get you one.

Get you one. But I would say if you're wanting to attract a beaver, you'd want to look into what beavers like and improve the habitat that way and try to attract them naturally.

You could use that in a lot of ways.

Didn't Jeff Foxworthy have that joke about the beaver that bit?

Why did he buy them?

He said it was like a, it got hit by a car and it's like Rd. kill and he like seen it and picked it up and it's still alive. Bit his ****** off.

I don't think they're kind of a nuisance for us. I've never seen it, but it's worked its way into killing almost every tree around the big pond in our house.

So that's a little irritating. I don't know how using like a live trap most of the time.

I don't know where his lodge is. I've never seen him. Yeah, I just see his evidence.

Well. Maybe you could get this lady.

Oh man, maybe I could be the one that brings her the beaver.

Be the one that brings her a beaver. But that type of call, she turned out, she's a nice lady and thankful that, you know, that I'd helped her and told her. She had another question she couldn't remember, but it's like, some people, it's like, they just want you to say, give them the magic solution, it's like.

Yeah, the magical spell.

And they're not really into the research, but sometimes it's kind of like, why do you even care what I have to say? You know, you don't want to listen to it.

And maybe they do more than we realize.

Yeah, but it's fun to.

It's fun to complain.

Fun to complain about, I guess. And so speaking of complaining, what's your complaints?

My complaint. So, we just had Thanksgiving and social media sitting around looking through and a lot of people are making turkey broth and things and some different Facebook groups were popping up for me for food preservation. And as a FCS agent, I try not to be real like picky and unfun and constantly pointing out other things people are doing wrong. But when it keeps popping up on my social media feed, it's like Facebook or some of these social media sites know what irritates you or something. It's like, that was like my algorithm. And so I was really kind of sad because I went to this group and it's a popular caning group known for not following the rules. And it has almost 500,000 members following. So 500,000 people.

500,000 people getting bad information.

That is a lot of people. getting bad info. And so I was kind of going through and I just kind of like, I think people just make stuff up. Like I feel sometimes.

I'm sure that's what a lot of people do is just make stuff up.

I think they make it up and they post it on social media and they act like they know what they're doing. And it's amazing. And really amazing to me. I think I could say anything. And, you know, Abe Lincoln said everything you hear on the internet is true. And so So I was kind of going through and I was looking at some of this bad information. So how long do you water bath quarts of turkey bone broth?

You want me to guess?

Yeah.

How long? Eight hours.

You don't water bath turkey bone broth. You must pressure can it?

Okay.

So fail. All right, what's next? So let's see, I'm just scrolling through, just looking at their different posts. And so this person, they had canned some chicken broth. They water bath canned it an hour and a half. But now they have other groups telling them that they should have done it for three hours. Should they throw that in the garbage? Did they do it right? Question.

I'm guessing not.

No, they should, you should always pressure can any meat product. So meat, anything. Must be pressure canned because it's low. and acid. So water bath canning it for hours and hours is not gonna kill the bunch a little.

What is water bath?

Water bath's where you're taking a jar and you're putting it in water, covering it one to two inches, and then you're bringing it to a boil and then boiling it for a certain amount of time, specified for whatever product it is, because it varies.

And it varies, is that the one that varies on your altitude?

No, that, well, I mean, your water will boil at a different temperature with altitude, but the pressure canning is the one that varies with altitude. But so water bathing it longer will not kill botulism. Botulism is either killed via acidity, and that's a low acid thing, meat. So it's not going to be killed in water bath because of acidity. And so pressure canning it, you have to get it to the 240 degrees. Well, water boils at 212. So that's why you're pressuring it.

Okay.

So cooking it longer in a water bath is going to do absolutely nothing. So they're really just ruining that product.

Yeah.

By cooking it for a long time, that's not making it safe. So now I'm continuing to scroll through because it's just one thing after another. So now they're saying, and so they are pressure canning these onions, which you do pressure can onions. but they're pressure canning diced onions. And so the only recommendations I've seen for onions, just solely onions, is for them to be whole. So whole small onions under an inch in diameter. And now I'm moving on and it says, so that one's correct. No. Can I water bath leftover ham and bean soup? So no. And all these people are saying yes to do it for three hours. And then one person goes, I water bath, it is gentler on my food.

What's that mean?

I guess it's just not as squishy, but it's not safe.

Yeah.

Or it can't be recommended to be safe. And then like, I mean, it is one thing after another. So then I pressure canned celery. So they only did celery. There's no recommendations on safely pressure canning celery. And guess what? It turned yellow. Is it safe to eat? And everyone says yes. And then let's keep on.

What would you say if someone asked you if it's safe to eat? What would you tell?

I would say there's no. safe recommendations on pressure canning celery.

So you're taking a chance. Taking a chance. So thinking about the people that call me that just want you to reaffirm what they've already done. So I'm coming in and I've water bathed.

Yeah, you've water bathed.

I've water bathed.

Celery.

Celery. And I'm like, well, is it good?

Nope.

Nope.

I cannot recommend it to be safe. I mean.

You're being a buzzkill Craig.

I'm sorry, but there's just, it's, we got some science here. Like this isn't, a lot of people are just making up rules.

That's the thing is we're looking at research-based information.

Yeah, and some things might work and some things might end up being safe, but then they may not be.

Yeah.

And I just can't, we can't just recommend whatever my opinion is.

What was it? So how would you go about finding good recipes?

I would go to the National Center for Home Food Preservation. It's free. It's got all kinds of wonderful recipes. It's got, explains everything. It also has drying, freezing, the blanch times. And then a lot of offices and extension, and we do here in Stone County have the So Easy to Preserve book. And like, I know you call me Buzzkill Craig, but it's just more people are canning. And I think that's wonderful. And I don't ever want to keep you from canning. And I understand that you're trying to be more self-sustainable, but you can do that and be safe for your family.

And what were, some people are like preserving stuff that doesn't need preserved. Like.

Yes, like on here, it had margarine. Why would you can margarine? Why would you can butter? It's not safe. Why would you do it? I mean, that's why you've made butter, is you've taken that milk And then another one was getting into some sweet potatoes. And I thought, that's a root vegetable that's stored in the right conditions is going to last through the winter for you easily that you have. So why would you take the time like that or your winter squashes or your pumpkins. I mean, that's what's wonderful about them is that they can be stored and kept without any further word to it.

Without refrigeration.

Yes. And so I think about that when you think about planting your garden. You know, I would rather do less caning if I can. I love to can. And I love to have all that in my house. And I understand freezer space is limited. But if we're talking about being more self-sustainable, trying to live off of just what we grow, then you're going to have to, in my opinion, which there's an opinion there, but I would look into doing sweet potatoes, the root vegetables, the winter vegetables. You know, I'd really consider also extending your gardening. And in our area, you can garden. Probably we've got the months of the year.

Yeah, we've got a long growing season, maybe not quite 12. You'd have to.

You'd have to have some hoop houses.

You'd have to have some hoop houses, maybe something. Like you could, your lettuce and stuff with a hoop house, it'd probably. Yeah.

Which I mean, if you had planted a winter vegetable garden, let's say September, you could be harvesting broccoli, cauliflower, Some can do Brussels sprouts and then it's a little harder. But some of the best, the best broccoli we've ever had was grown and picked this time of year because, and if you're not wanting to spray as much, it is the time because broccoli is tough in this area and the in the spring because the temperatures get hot. But I think you just really need to consider what I can do without having to just can everything in the summer, what I can do to help prolong my season to have those fresh vegetables and how I can store those root vegetables, those winter squashes better or onions, different things that I'm not having to constantly work them up to eat. But that's kind of just my thoughts on that.

Something you said there reminded me of a pet peeve brought back a memory of when I'd worked with my family and like one time... dad wanted to grow like tomatoes. And I remember we went and cut down trees to make steaks and we'd had to go out there and stake all these tomatoes and it ended up being like 5 acres of tomatoes.

Oh my goodness.

And I just remember throughout the season, like there was so much that we were having to like, or some got rotten and stuff and we'd have to toss quite a few. And I was just thinking, Why didn't we plant half of this? Maybe we wouldn't have as many getting overripe and stuff. But yeah. And then another time, my family is going back to gardening. Like we grew a commercial garden is what those tomatoes were. Again, 5 acres of just, and I don't even like tomatoes.

No, you don't. Like when he says he doesn't like tomatoes, he really doesn't.

I don't think, think of a tomato that size. Out of all the pieces throughout my life I may have had, I don't know if I've eaten a full tomato.

But you do like salsa.

I like salsa and stuff, so I guess maybe.

You don't like chunky?

I don't, the chunkies are gross. But another thing, like planning out your garden and doing stuff we were growing like just for us garden. Dad plowed up this little area and we're out there like laying out the rows and started planting, making it look nice. And he had bought like two things of radish seed. And like I'd had two rows marked, two or three rows marked off there with radishes. And we're like bent over spacing them, planting them. And I was like, who even eats radishes? And out of all five of us, my mom, dad, two sisters, and me, there was approximately 0 people that said they enjoyed radishes.

So who were the radishes for?

I guess just to grow, grow something to grow. Yeah. That's one thing my grandpa said one time. I grow something even if I didn't make any money. Just because.

Just likes to see it.

Just likes to see it grow. I'm not much on the radishes myself. I'm not much on tomatoes or radishes, but.

I don't eat a lot of tomatoes, but I like to make tomato things.

Just thinking, when talking about the pet peeve of the pond, I was thinking, well, what are some cool, or some things if you've got a pond and you're wanting to, you know, you're having, dealing with weeds, there are some things you could do wintertime that would actually help your weed growth. And so One thing you can do is called like a draw down where you drain some of the water out of that. How you do that, you can get like a siphon, build it out of PVC and say it goes up over the dam. And you don't have to completely drain the pond, you know, every ounce of water out of there. You just need to get exposed that bank where the weeds are growing, expose them throughout the whole winter to those freezing temperatures. It's going to kill a lot of the weed seed, kill a lot of the weeds. probably lower your population doing a drawdown or you could cut into the bank, somehow drain the pond, but then allow the spring rains to refill it. That will help you. That's a good recommended practice. Winter time, I get calls a lot of times this year of people wanting to control the weeds in the pond. In December. Yeah, freeze is going to kill a lot of that stuff. And there's, you know, other than a drawdown, really we want to focus all our intention about controlling those weeds in the springtime.

So maybe they're just thinking, they feel like they should already be gone. Maybe that's what they're worried about.

But it's still pretty early. Yeah, still pretty early. But they'll go, most ponds, other than maybe they're like a bunch of cattails, you might still see those. But a lot of the pond weeds go away throughout the wintertime and then They'll pop up early spring. So we'll start seeing algae blooms in March. You know, once it starts warming up and sun's shining, that algae, that's a lot of early spring stuff. How do I control algae? Well, some good recommendations on control are using copper products. There's copper sulfate. One thing with copper sulfate, it can be like toxic if you get too much and your alkalinity isn't right in your pond. It can either render it ineffective or it can become toxic to fish. So copper sulfate, you have to be careful with it, read and understand the label. There are some products that are called copper complexes. Our old aquatic weed specialist, that's what he recommended for Stone County is using copper complexes because they're in our soft type water. They work a little bit better and aren't as toxic. So I've done some demonstrations where I've sprayed that copper complex on there. I'd mix it up, I'd get the liquid that also comes in granules, but mix up the liquid and then spray that on the algae and it's a contact killer. So whatever you hit, it'll kill, but it'll like wipe out algae in like a couple of days. So like I could have a, you know, banks covered with algae and go out and spray it with that copper complex and then come back two days later and it's just clear as can be. And I'm, look at that.

Yeah, take a pick.

People like that. And they're like, oh, how do you do that?

So if you're seeing algae, is March about the time you want to try to control? How much do you want to see before you're starting to focus on control? Is getting ahead of it better or are you just going to have to kind of wait until it's there?

So with algae, it's a single-celled organism. you're likely going to have to deal with it all year. So I mentioned, the copper complex, that's going to be something like a spot treatment or like I mentioned the granules. Like if you say have just a little area where the algae is up on your pond, you can sprinkle those granules on there. Again, it's contact killer, so it's got to kind of hit the algae to kill it. Single-celled organism, it's going to, If there's sunlight and nutrients in the pond, well, it's going to get a regrow. And some algae blooms okay because it's kind of the base of the food chain in the pond, especially if you've got fish, you know, your little zoo plankton and other stuff will eat. the phytoplankton and then the larger little minnows will feed on the plankton and the algae and then move up the food chain. Your bigger fish eat them and then your bass is going to eat them. So it is good to have some algae bloom. We don't want to control it all, especially if you're wanting to raise fish. But when you're seeing like the different types of algae and there's several different types, like what we see a lot is like the filamentous algae and it's like the real stringy stuff and it'll It starts at the bottom of the pond, sunlight goes in, hits the pond, and it grows on the bottom, and then those mats will float to the top. There's also like planktonic algae. All that stuff's gonna grow because you've got excess, or you've got nutrients in the pond, and you're getting sunlight. So if you're against, like say, using chemicals, you can use something like the shade that I mentioned, again, on a jug of it, a gallon jug of it, says, I think that an acre will, or a gallon will treat about an acre and then reapply it every 90 days, I think is what one of them I've read said. Again, read your label and different products may say different things, but use it accordingly. The key with that, it's not a one-time treatment. You got to reapply it to keep that shade on there. And they've got all sorts of different colors.

Well, I always thought that they were just using that. in different places just to be the color, but really it's a control.

It's a control to shade out the photosynthesis to the weeds. So that's an option to you if you're having a big algae bloom. Doesn't always work. Like if you have real shallow areas, even like a pond that I deal with, like Martha's Pond, it's got some shallow areas that it doesn't, even if we shaded it, like it's still sunlight's gonna penetrate and be able to grow. And so we'll have a little bit of algae bloom with that. And that's where I do a lot of treatment with that copper complex. But then another deal is like you've got excess nutrient runoff. Somewhere nutrients are getting into the pond, feeding those weeds and the algae and it's growing. So there are some products like there's one that's called like Foslock and you put it in the pond and it binds up the nutrients in there and phosphorus that doesn't allow the algae to get it. And so you won't have as much of A bloom. So if you have a.

Pond that may be getting a lot of runoff from a field, that might be an option there.

Yeah. Another thing, if you're wanting to extend the life of your ponds and you're using it as a watering source for like livestock, you don't want to allow them. I know, you know, in the hot summer months, you'll see them get out there in the middle, cool off. But If you're wanting to extend the life of your pond, as they're getting in there, they're adding excess nutrients. They're probably...

They're drinking and pooping at the same time.

Drinking and pooping and peeing all at the same time and just tromping, eroding in and all that silt is building up and making your pond more shallow. If you're seeing a lot of weed problems with that, probably what you need to do is re-dig that pond out, clean it out, and get it deep again, and then restrict access. Maybe put an electric fence around it and just have a heavy use area where they can just get.

Partial access. I've seen a few in the county where they'll have a fence around. It almost looks like half or more on one side to keep them off of it.

Yeah, so that's an option for, and keeping them out and keeping the life of the pond, keeping the weeds out of the pond will help is keeping the livestock out of your pond. Another thing that I see that people can do, like I mentioned the grass carp earlier, five per acre, and you can adjust that if you've got a smaller or larger pond. Again, they'll eat real good those first few years and you'll see control, but then they get real big and they slow down their consumption of stuff and they're not going to be as effective. So you want to pull them out and restock fresh ones. Again, if you have bass in your pond, you want to stock bigger fish so they don't get eaten right away. Now, I mentioned that they won't eat like duckweed or watermill very well. But if you didn't, say, have any bass in your pond and it's just like a watering source, you could throw some goldfish out there and they will control that watermill and duckweed. So you could stock, I think it's like 50 pounds.

Of goldfish.

50 pounds per acre, if I remember correctly.

Is there any concerns with them being an invasive species into other ponds?

I really have to read on it. I wouldn't imagine that, like say you, they can grow pretty big. I've always heard like if they have a big enough area, they can get pretty large. So say you had a large one escape. he's not going to get eaten, but I would imagine if somehow it was able to reproduce, all those little tiny guys are going to get eat up because they shine so well. I wouldn't imagine they'd last long. I would like, if it was a problem, I would imagine it'd already been an issue because how long have people been dealing with goldfish? So I'd, because like if you had any bass in a pond, It's not going to be worth it to you because they'll eat all of them. Yeah.

So we stocked our pond with I wouldn't imagine minnows and catfish in the spring and we made sure they were nice and big and then we stocked with some little bass this fall. You know, I just mentioned us stocking with fish. We went fishing in the spring and we thought, you know, my husband's family used to really, his grandpa utilized this pond as a food source and we wanted to get back to that. So So we're trying to, find the proper balance with the right amount of fish. So we did the flathead minnows at the right rate. And then we had 200 catfish. And then we didn't do a whole lot of bass, but we made sure and waited until everything was well established before we added them. But, you know, we've got this pond. Wasn't expensive to add those fish, but then, you know, they can provide a good fun source and fish fries for us coming up. So I'm looking forward to that. There are a few aquatic weeds in that pond, but it's very limited. there's no overtake of anything. It's just a little along the edges and not all around the pond really.

So we've got a cool little, we call them MPs. MP360 is our recreational, our farm pond management for recreational fishing. And so Recommended stocking rates, depending on what you want, but say you wanted a largemouth bluegill type pond, depending on, you know, do you want to be able to cast out and catch every time, or do you want to grow really large, largemouth bass? So a starting stocking rate is somewhere around 50 largemouth per acre and then 500 bluegill per acre. And then again, 5 grass carp per acre. But it's three to five pounds of minnows is what you're looking at per acre is a good stocking rate. And like Anna said, establish those minnows first and then come in. Why you want to have bluegill? Well, the large mouth are going to eat not only the minnows, but bluegill will be a good food source for them. And it's something else to catch, so providing good habitat. One thing that's recommended with that is maybe instead of just 500 bluegill, maybe split up and add some of those red ear that's what I was going to add.

We have, that's about the only thing that was in that pond. And there were so many of them, they're all tiny.

Yeah.

And so we didn't add any bluegill or anything like that because of them.

Yeah, so those red ear sunfish, what they're good for is they eat snails. They call them snail crackers. But there is some like worm that can get in fish. I know someone's pond who was taken over by those. I forget what they're called, but those red ear sunfish will eat the snails and it's kind of like, it's a, yeah, you have to have the snails and then the worm and then the fish for that worm to pop up. And you'll see it like the bumps and the tail and stuff. I've heard they're still okay to eat, but.

I'm just not really excited about anything that's wormy.

But if you're having issues with that, stocking those red ear sunfish, and so you'd just say 400 bluegill per acre and then 100 red ear sunfish per acre. If you want catfish, it's about 50, 50 or 100 per acre. I was looking at the largemouth bass. So 50 pounds largemouth per acre, 400 bluegill, or 500 bluegill if you don't want to stock any of the red ear sunfish. Say if you wanted a largemouth bluegill, the red ear sunfish, and some catfish like channel cat, the recommendations from this MP is 50 largemouth bass per acre, 400 bluegill per acre, 100 of the red ear sunfish, 100 channel cat, and then if you wanted to do grass carp, 5 per acre, and then 3 to 10 pounds of minnows per acre.

I forgot how many pounds of minnows we got, but we've got several generations of minnows now.

Yeah.

Last I went and visited, they were doing really well. Which you got to have a place for them to hide. also and get away.

There are different strategies for say, stocking a pond depending on what your goal would be. If you wanted to have like trophy bass or if you wanted to be able to just cast out and catch or if you kind of wanted a mix. So if you wanted a mix, like I want to be able to catch a little bit of bluegill, I want to catch some decent sized largemouth bass, but they don't have to be super huge. You'd want to do like a balance type stocking rate that we've mentioned, the 50 largemouth, 500 bluegill, that's going to, per acre, that's going to have a balance where the largemouth are able to control the bluegill population and you're going to have, but they're not going to get, you know, just extremely large because there is still competition there between them. Whereas if you had a largemouth crowded pond, All the largemouth are going to be competing for food. So this is going to be like a pond that you want to catch every cast and take a kid to. Have fun. Have fun, just want to catch fish. A largemouth crowded pond. They're all competing for, the largemouth are competing for all the bluegill. Yet there's still enough bluegill there that you'll catch them every now and then. And then we have bluegill crowded ponds. And these are going to be where we have fewer largemouth bass. And so they're able to grow larger. And that's where you'd, if you're wanting to catch like trophy bass, that's probably what you'd want to do. Did look up, like if you're what is the stocking rate on the goldfish if I had a pond without any bass in it, no predator fish, and I just want to keep them clean to have a nice clean looking pond out there. Again, I said 50 pounds, it's like 35 to 65 pounds is what the recommended stocking rate. Yeah, per acre. And then I think I also mentioned our wanted to mention how much you should harvest. Because if you're wanting to have a fish pond, I guess like a balanced pond, you'd just take out equal amounts or not harvest. I think over time, the equilibrium of the pond would reach without If you didn't harvest, I imagine over time it just established the equilibrium, but it's actually is good for the health of the fish to harvest. And it's like 10 to 15 pounds of largemouth bass, 50 to 100 bluegill is what it said.

Really.

Yeah.

That's more than you would think.

So if you're thinking about, I want to have a specific pond and It's a, I want a largemouth or a bluegill crowded pond so I can have these huge largemouth coming out of the pond. You'd want to be removing a lot of some of the blue or the largemouth out of your pond. You don't want to be like, well, that's going to be.

They're just going to live forever.

I'm just going to leave them. It's just going to continue to grow and continue to grow. So don't remove any of my largemouth from the pond. No, you actually, you want to be tracking how much you're taking out. That way you can grow the good ones. But I could talk about ponds. Like I think I could talk about all this. Like we could go more in depth with the strategies and managing ponds. So if you do listen to this podcast and you have ideas of what you'd like us to hear, because we are coming in to the end of what we're calling season one.

Season one.

And we'll, again, probably do a couple of more episodes this year in December, go on Christmas break, come back after the first of the year, and try doing different things we're going to try. So if you're listening, have ideas, reach out to us on.

Let us know what you're interested in us talking about.

Comment on the Facebook posts or if you're watching it on YouTube, comment on those so we kind of know what type of topics.

Who's out there?

Yeah, what type of topics you want to hear about because.

Yeah, we want to bring what you're interested in.

We can talk about lots of stuff. agriculture. Again, I'm not good at the row crop stuff. I probably won't talk about that, but we can always bring somebody on.

Yes, we can.

Talking about gardening, horticulture in general, beef cattle, forages. I like that type of stuff. And the new food preservation.

Food preservation, I want to get into a little more of consumer economics in this spring.

Yeah, consumer economics.

With the new year, I think we're all thinking about finances. So that's when I hope to bring that in more in season 2.

Yeah, I think we've kind of practiced and.

We're getting a little better.

Hopefully so. And doing different things. So if you'd listen.

Yeah, let us know what you like.

Let us know what you like. We can tell more funny stories or less funny stories.

Or get real specific on a vegetable.

Yeah, we could have a whole program that we talked about, like we'd done that asparagus class for.

Grow your own groceries.

Grow your own groceries. And we was like, hey, we could talk about that on the podcast. So if you're, we could do a whole series, like a different garden vegetable, how to treat it. And you could talk about how to cook it.

How to eat it. Yeah.

How to treat it and how to eat it?

I like that. sounds good.

And that could be like a whole series.

It could be.

I think that's all for this week. So thanks for listening.

And we'll see you soon.