House of Hammers

Leadership as Coaching | Jeff Wiska '77

• CC Communications • Season 1 • Episode 14

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Episode 14 of the House of Hammers podcast features Jeff Wiska '77, a Michigan State football player and former NFL/USFL professional. The discussion centers on the transition from elite athletics to corporate leadership, emphasizing a "people-first" management philosophy. Wiska maintains that effective leadership is an act of mentorship and love rather than mere process management, drawing direct parallels between the accountability of the football field and the integrity required in business. 

SPEAKER_05

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to episode 14 of the House of Hammers podcast. We created this podcast to shed some light on some of the people that Chris DeCoy and myself felt were hammers in the community, not only at Catholic Central, but outside of this place. Everyone from coaches to mentors to businessmen to servant leaders, things like that. And we are very excited about our guest today. But before I introduce him, I got to check in with Chris. We actually did our first episode without him when Mike McAndrews came in. Chris had some stuff going on and uh he's freshly out of a boot from his turf toe injury. You knew I was going to mention it. Wow. I want you to touch on this a little bit later. We'll talk about what it's like getting older as our bodies start to fall apart. But Chris, keep us up to date on uh on some of the stuff you've had going on lately.

SPEAKER_06

Oh man, mega blessed, man, mega blessed, mega fortunate. A lot of great things going on in Shamrock Nation. So one of our Shamrock brothers, uh Anthony Tomey, Michael Tomey, they just opened up another Jimmy Johns locations down in Cork Town, Corktown and Old Tiger Stadium. So a lot of great things going on. Shout out to hockey. They just won states as well. Did we touch on that already last episode? We touch on it all the time.

SPEAKER_05

We can mention you want to mention the Braves football, freshman football championship of the fall. We can talk about that.

SPEAKER_06

But the Braves, freshman football. You know, we're out we're jump starting.

SPEAKER_02

Overcomes coaching again.

SPEAKER_06

Exactly. Uh jump starting uh lacrosse season. So a lot, a lot of good things going on. Our young men are doing some amazing things, a lot of a lot of positive work. Young men are finally getting their Christian service hours in. So, you know, they're all done and settled in there. So, man, life is good, man. God is still God, even in the midst of adversity. Out of the boot, uh turf toe flirt up a little bit on me, was getting a little too aggressive with the single-leg lunges and trying to do some get-offs, and yeah, having done 50 snaps in a little bit of time, and so you got in a little bit of a get-off competition, trying to show the guys how to do get-offs. And next thing you know, I was on like rep 40. And before I knew it, I did like 10 club rips, and I was in Crocs, and I was relaxing. Next thing you know, man, I'm like, dude, like the last time I fell, I remember like whenever I get would get turfed out. I remember the first time I got it against the 49ers, I remember thinking my cleat had broke. I'm like, dude, I think the bottom of my shoe fell off. And I looked down on my shoe was completely intact. You're like, oh and so yeah, uh luckily, man, like when I was there, it was fine. I just you know how it is. It's like when you once you share it with me, once I was like relaxing, it was like everything had kind of toned down. I'm just like, what's going on there, man? And yeah, she was she was swollen up like a balloon.

SPEAKER_05

For those of you out there who have never had turf toe and think it's a soft injury. Like before I had it, I was like, man, that you're missing an NFL game with turf toe. How soft is that? And then I got it, and it was like, this is one of the most painful injuries and stupid injuries I've ever gotten in my life. But I'm happy you're on the mend. You did not look right wearing uh that walking boot. Oh, yeah, I was trying to. I love tearing into you in your fashion. Usually that one just didn't it didn't help.

SPEAKER_06

But get it from you, man.

SPEAKER_05

It's uh on our end at the Babbitt's house, things couldn't be things couldn't be any better. Brooks and Bo just flourishing in school, being good boys to each other. My wife is still a saint, getting ready to go on spring break after uh after we finish up the week. So very excited.

SPEAKER_06

Where are you guys going?

SPEAKER_05

Her day. We're going to uh Folly Beach, South Carolina. Folly beach. I'm not moving from the pool or the beach. You will see me in either one of those spots. All you can eat crab legs mandatory, yes, 100%. I will be crushing all you can eat crab is like a part of the resort or something like that?

SPEAKER_06

No, it's not.

SPEAKER_05

It's just I've already looked up places different spots I'm gonna go to. Uh I did want to share something with everybody that I heard yesterday, and it's it's something that I'll touch on later because as we grow older, I think we need to prioritize rest more. I heard something from Tim Tebow the other day, and he was talking about how rest is biblical. It's in the Bible. It's not just you know taking advantage of the Sabbath and resting, but when he talked about resting, he talked about spending time with God, talking to him, working on your relationship. I love that. And then he also said that run is also biblical. God put us on this earth to run this race, to make sure that we're instruments, to spread his word, things like that, our faith through our own lives and things like that. That's why I'm so excited for this week's guest. To have Jeff Whiskey on as our episode 14 guest for me is a full circle moment. He has been a phenomenal mentor for me, a phenomenal friend. Part of the reason why I love people the way I do comes from my family, but the majority of it comes from the way that Jeff helped raise me as a young professional here, as a young coach, as a mentor, hopefully, still to his two sons, both of which are wildly more successful than probably both of us by now. But uh he's a 1977 grad, played football here at Catholic Central. He took his football career and his academic career to Michigan State University, where he ended up being on the all-decade team a few years ago. He gets drafted in the seventh round uh out of Michigan State University, spends the first year on IR, right? Yeah, hurt my knee. Comes back the next year, makes a move to another team, so spent time with the Cleveland Browns, the Detroit Lions, some time in the arena football league, won the arena football championship with the Detroit Drive. I don't know if you've ever heard of them before, have you? I told you he wouldn't have to be a little bit more. I told you he wouldn't know he wouldn't know who the Detroit Drive is.

SPEAKER_02

It's trivia stuff.

SPEAKER_05

Detroit Drive was an arena football team in Detroit, same colors as Little Caesars, owned by the Illich family. Really? Arena Football League world champion over there. But how was it experienced?

SPEAKER_02

It was fun. I mean, every level is fun. I mean, the funnest level, the higher up you go, the less fun it gets. The best days of my life, if I could replay one game in my life, it wouldn't be a USFL championship game. It wouldn't be the Cleveland Brown, Denver Bronco championship game where Elway had the 97-yard drive and I had the privilege of being on the other side. It wouldn't be Michigan, Michigan State. It would be Alfra Casa versus Brother Rice at Wisner Stadium. The best most fun game, most gratifying, too. Just the environment driving up there when you're gonna be able to get the highway and love beating Brother Rice more than any other opponent. And the reason that I say that is because I have more respect for Alfra Casa and the people for Brother Rice from any other opponent I've ever lined up against.

SPEAKER_05

It was great the friendship that those two got to build, and I think that set a standard. Because I know you have friends from Brother Rice, I have friends from Brother Rice.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

But back to my introduction, spent time with the Michigan Panthers, who you said was one of your favorite uniforms as well.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Chris Fellow USFL.

SPEAKER_06

I didn't know you were USFL.

SPEAKER_02

Oh yeah, too. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I started like 20, 27, 28 games in the USFL. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_05

But outside of that goes into the world of business. Dale Carnegie trained. I know you and I have talked a lot about that and always reviewing that, how to love your people and take care of them, let them know that you're there for them. You go to Boise Cascade when we really started to get together and communicate more and develop our friendship and brotherhood, and just your management style there is why I'm so excited to have you on today because you've lived your life similarly in everything you've gone into with love and with a high level of faith, self-belief, and confidence. And I want to make sure we dive into that today. But without further ado, 1977 grad Catholic Central Hall of Famer, legend, Michigan State all decade team, Mr. Jeff Whiskel. Clap it up for him.

SPEAKER_04

Oh John will put in some sound effects, things like that.

SPEAKER_02

That's very kind. But let me just interject real quick how proud I am of you two guys. I mean, watching you grow up, watching you play, beating Saginaw Arthur Hill. I want to say it was like a 14 to 13 game back in uh 1990. You graduated in 93, so it was the champion. I I remember sometimes I can't remember what I had for dinner last night. I remember sitting next to my father in the euphoria of that back and forth game and watching you, and then watching the husband that you are, watching the father that you are, and just knew with your skill set you have the proper skills and you have the passion. And Catholic Central is so fortunate to have a man of your talent and just great to watch you, and you've impacted so many lives, and you're doing a great job. And then Chris watching him, he's always your your personality type. You're either when you walk into a room, you're putting a smile on somebody's face, or when you're walking out of it, you're putting a smile on somebody's face. His positive energy and his effortless trying to do everything he can to motivate, inspire, and to bring out the best in young man. It it's it's a privilege to be here with you two guys. Love, love, we're brothers. I I'm a much older brother, but the the brotherhood is alive and well.

SPEAKER_05

I think we're the older guys in the room. I can now that I'm 50, I can say stuff like that. I can use that little that little caveat and that little joke. But I've said this to Chris a million times, and I've said it to Sean. I remember when Sean was a student here too, coming from Heartland wrestling, all the people in Heartland just giving him you know what because he was a shamrock.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Same thing with Chris to watch the growth from these two guys and guys like uh Ben Herman, Steven Yunchai, Brian Bedard. I mean, there's so many, so many of our little brothers here that are just flourishing, and it's that's what makes it so special. I steal a lot of what I do just as a father, husband, coach, and as a professional from you. So give us Jeff Whisca in two minutes. What makes you tick? Give us your why in two minutes. Now it can go a little bit longer, but and you know I'm not gonna prepare you as anything.

SPEAKER_02

I can ramble. For for myself, Catholic Central was Disneyland, and I constantly humbled by the athletes, by people that are so much smarter than I, people that are so much giving, people that their spirituality is so I I put them on a pedestal, and I've I find myself at 67 years old walking into this building and getting the same feeling that I had when I was a 13-year-old. I'm in awe of so many people around me, and I'm constantly looking up, and they've constantly helped make me a better man because I'm as average. I made the honor roll twice. I was joking earlier. I guess I got overlooked for the Dylan Award. It must have been uh an oversight, but I I'm I'm grateful. I I never started they the people talk about Catholic Central recruits, they get all the great athletes. The first game that I ever started was the sixth game my junior year, and that was only because Joe Mirana broke his leg and I took his spot. And by drinking the CC Kool-Aid and buying into Coach Mack and everything that Catholic Central stands for, I had 30 Division I scholarship offers by the end of my senior year, and then everybody said, Oh, you only went to CC because you're a good football player and they recruited, you know. Not so. But what what I what I learned is kind of this simple. Life is football. You bring together a group of people, you don't care what their skin color is, what their politics is, and you don't put Tom Brady at tight end, you put Tom Brady at quarterback, and you don't put Gronkowski at tailback, you you put him at tight end, you assemble your team, you overcome adversity. There's gonna be fumbles, there's gonna be penalties, it's gonna be too hot, it's gonna be too cold, somebody's gonna fall into your knee. Y game plan, the play never looks the way that you drew it up on the board. And at the end of the day, you find a way with 30 seconds left in the game, and you're on the two-yard line to huddle up with your folks after all the imperfections that the day has and the game has given, and you find a way to get the ball in the end zone with your team. Life's kind of that simple. And what I learned in the in the business world, and it blows me away to this day. People, organizations they'll they'll take people and they'll take them to the finest leadership business colleges in the land, and they'll never understand what we understood when we were here at Catholic Central. And it's don't be a boss, be a mentor, be a coach, be a leader. Managing is making sure it gets done the right way, more process oriented. Leadership is inspiring human beings and reaching into their heart and getting into their brain and convincing them that with hard work and focus and proper values and proper character, you can achieve anything that you want in your lifetime. Okay isn't okay at Catholic Central. No, you have to be the best version of yourself.

SPEAKER_06

Standard is a standard.

SPEAKER_05

You talked about process too. I I heard a great one the other day, and it was process versus people. You know, you can be a process person, but if you're not a people person, then your processes are gonna fail because every process is felt emotionally by a person, a human being. Every standard, same thing there. So and it was really making me think, and it's like, why did I see this was yesterday? Talked about it at the wrestling banquet, and I knew you were coming in today, and I'm like, this is the three of us, the four of us to a T. You can have a great process in place, but unless your people know you truly care about them, not just say you care about them, but show them, get to know them, check in on them when they need it. That's when you have something truly special. I don't think that that's necessarily I think it's a different process. It's a process of leading with love. Instead of just saying, hey, this is how we're gonna do it, this is the way you have to do it. No, I'm gonna sit down with you like you're a family member of mine. If I sit down and I'm if I'm willing to sit down and ask Chris for advice, I can sure as hell sit down with Chris and have him give me some some positive or negative feedback and critique me.

SPEAKER_02

I think the greatest endangered species in the world right now is that of the leader. And what has happened is a lot of managerial folks have been thrust in positions of leadership. And you're either you are you a boss or are you a coach and a mentor? It's kind of that simple. Do you care about your people? Do you wake up in the morning trying to figure out what buttons can I push, what can I do today to bring out the best in everybody that on the hierarchy chart works for me, but the reality is you go to work every day working for everybody else, everybody's got issues, everybody's got something. Everybody's got a health issue, a relationship issue, sickness, empathy. Take care of each other, love each other. And some of the stuff there you you can't you don't have control over, but one thing that you you had I had control over when I was in the business world, I can give you a fun environment that we're going to be a team, we're gonna be unselfish, we're gonna be there to pick each other up, and we're going to create an environment that's very similar to senior year in high school, and we're gonna have fun and we're gonna be family. So you guys had Fridays off and things like that? The occasional Every day was Saturday to me. I never worked a day in my life in the rearview mirror. I loved my job. I loved the folk, I love getting up in the morning and making the rounds and just being able asking questions. How you doing today? Great, how you doing today? Great, how you doing today? Hmm, okay. What's wrong? I can tell. Boom. You you get to that level where you you you and all and then I can talk with my managers and say, these three people aren't themselves, their heads aren't screwed on straight, pat them on the back, no reprimands today or anything like that, and let's uplift them to to help them. And then circle around later on the day, just making sure that they're all right, making sure that they know that they're appreciated and loved. And I I I've learned that the older I get, there are thousands of opportunities during the course of the day to sincerely show appreciation for someone. And we're so busy, so focused on our things, we don't we don't do it. But there are every hour there are 50 people that we can just somebody in the band, man, I wish I had your talent. You're you really do a great job. You know, my dad really liked the halftime for four something as simple as that sincerely can elevate someone and make their whole day by 15 seconds of kindness. And it's around us all day long, and so often we're so preoccupied with other things we miss that.

SPEAKER_05

Absolutely. I don't I don't think it's something that you're born with. I think maybe a little bit of it, like the three of us, we just kind of have that spirit about us to where you can walk in and just smile at somebody or just crack a joke or say what's up to someone and you can feel what they might be going through, or you can tell from their response that they're struggling a little bit. Chris, with you, one thing I've noticed you've been really good at here at CC is helping peel back the layers on some of our kids who might be putting up a false front, and then all of a sudden they sit down with you and you're like, all right, let's really talk about like what you're going through and things like that. Did you have somebody during your experience here who sat you down and was just like, all right, listen, like who are you trying to become? What are your goals? Like, where were you able to foster that and kind of grow to where you could bring that back to Catholic Central as a professional?

SPEAKER_06

Well, first, you know, the word of God says, With love and kindness have I drawn thee. Um, and you know, the Bible also speaks about when you see a man hungry, give him some food, right? You see a man naked, you know, give him some clothes, you see a man without shelter, you know, to give him some shelter. You know, the Bible speaks about you take care of a man's natural first before his spiritual. And and I say that because one of the things I learned from you is that we pour before we critique. So we cultivate that relationship, we spend time with the individual, we get to know their likes, uh, their bag drop, where they're from, what sport they play, like what does their faith life look like? Hey, have you have you aid today, man? Just cultivating that relationship first before critiquing. I I think now we live in um a false pseudo-consultant environment where a lot of people that have never constructively built anything now want to give all this constructive criticism without construction. And so part of that construction is construct a relationship first. And that was one thing where like I always I always tell people this me and you never talked about football till it was my career. Like, you know, there they were like encouraging and motivational like moments. Um, you know, I remember before the semifinal versus Cas Tech, my senior year, you came and like loved me up. But majority of our relationship was getting loved up, showing that you care. You know, one of the things Coach Asante, not Coach, yeah, Coach Asante was speaking about is that when people never people necessarily won't remember like what you did, what you said, how you looked, but they'll remember like how you made them feel.

SPEAKER_05

And so Angelou quote, one of my favorite quotes.

SPEAKER_06

I don't know why I I that's like my like third time. I know, I know I'm calling you out. I'm calling fade too. Yeah, I gotta stop saying that. Um but yeah, man, it's just man, you you gotta earn the right. I'm old school, man. I think you know, we live in a day where I things have to be just be earned. I think you have to earn the right to critique someone, you know. So love them up first. And you know, that was something that I really, really uh learned, learned from you in particular, learned from Mr. Trainey in particular. And you know, that's why I think it's so easy for me to whether I agree with it or or disagree with it, like it's easy for me to take in like feedback. I know there's been a couple a couple uh incidents where someone's like, you know, you've you share with me where someone's like, Oh, how do you think it's gonna take that? And you're like, oh no, like he like he takes and I I tell people, I mean, being cultureable has always been one of my you know biggest assets is because you know, a wise man learns from the mistakes of others. And and I I genuinely don't think people just telling you things just to say it. I think it typically comes from um, you know, a place of of love, and I think I think it takes a level of maturity to understand that. And so, yeah, man, I think that's one of the biggest, biggest, biggest, most profound things I learned from you in particular. You know, obviously I love her, I love my school, but I'm not gonna say it's a it's a school wide uh framework that everyone here uses because I would be lying. However, yeah, I learned that from you, man. The you know, you gotta cultivate the relationship first before you just dive. And saying what a person's doing wrong, figure out what's right about them first.

SPEAKER_05

I'd go visit him at Boise Cascade and just watching you walk around, and I wouldn't even say your employees, because I know you didn't look at them like that.

SPEAKER_02

They were actual family members to you that you knew I'm accountable to them for their career and to get them home safe at the end of the night.

SPEAKER_05

But I never saw I never saw it. Not only get them home safe physically, but get them home in a safe mental state as well, to where they weren't bringing the negativity from work home with them. I think that's what was most inspiring for me. I know you were born with some of that stuff, Wisk, but where did you learn that? I in you when you started at CC, Coach Mack was not our head coach, right? Correct. So Coach Woodcock. Exactly. You had him and then Coach Mack came in.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Two very good coaches. One when it came to culture and the mentality, completely different than the other. What was that culture shift like for you when Coach Woodcock stepped down and Coach Mack was around?

SPEAKER_02

I had a good relationship with Coach Woodcock. He was always good to me, but I'm not a Dylan Award winner. A lot of times I didn't understand what was going on in geometry class or Father Peramo's physics class. But there was something about Coach Mack when when he spoke, my brain was a sponge, and it all made sense to me, and I became much more self-accountable, and I had much more self confidence. And I learned to our our point on the discussion, one of Coach Mack's greatest poems that he gave us was The Man in the Mirror. Don't worry about your face. It's too many people are worried about their Facebook image, and you're accountable to the person in the glass. And what I learned, the good part about playing for Bill Parcell, playing for Darryl Roger, playing for Marty Schottenheimer, playing for Don Shula, and having the honor to play with those gentlemen is when I got out into the real world, I wanted to coach people up. I didn't want to just rip them down. And things have evolved a little bit today. A younger coach, more positive energy. Back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, when I was back in the 80s, it was a lot more hard school. And a good rule of thumb to people that you're responsible for in any entity, five compliments, find, find five times that they're doing something right. Let them know that they're appreciated for every one constructive criticism. But what happens in the real world? You do you do everything, and then the one time you make a mistake, that's the only time you get feedback from your boss or from your manager. So and even when you're coaching someone, you can be hard on a person all day long at practice, but the one thing you can't forget, at the end of the day, you put your arm around them and say, I'm hard on you because I know that there's greatness in you, and I'm going to do anything I can to make you the best version of yourself. Are you with me? Because I'm doing this out of love. I'm not going to look the other way when I think you can do better. And that kid will go from hating you to not being able to sleep that night because he feels upset that he let you down, and he'll come out tomorrow with fire fire breathing out of his nostrils, not wanting to let you down.

SPEAKER_05

It's weird. I've never said that to anybody before that I just see this potential in you, and that's why I'm so hard on you. And but Chris and I've had, and I've talked about it on here probably almost every episode. Yeah. It's I see and feel so much potential in him when he first started working here. I was hard on him. Now I knew I had built that equity of love and brotherhood with him, but I was hard on him because my vision for him was different than what his was for him at that time.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Seeing him grow into what my vision was more of for him, like the relationships he's built with the kids and the adult and and other people, it's exactly what I thought was going to happen. And it's just like you said, it's seeing people. It's listening to them. When you and I talk, I'm not thinking of another answer in my head. I'm taking in exactly what you're telling me or what Chris tells me. Like we have some, we do mess with each other quite a bit. We do have some very good, some very good conversations.

SPEAKER_02

But that's that's Catholic Central. We we the class of 77, we have 26, 27 guys on a chat. What a crap. And we're always but you know what it is about our brotherhood? When you're down, everybody picks you up. And if you're getting a little too full of yourself, you're gonna get your chops busted and they're gonna bring we we keep each other grounded and we pick each other up when we're down.

SPEAKER_06

Reinforcement groups. I always always talk to me and Sean and A B about that. I don't think there's a single more thing important to the development of an individual than their reinforcement cycles and the people that reinforce with that hey, correct. Accountability partners are everything, man. And that's why the importance of cultivating the right type of relationships with the right type of people in environments like this, especially in the time in which we're in, are some of the most important things, right? Because the the world is fallen and the world is at is advancing in some ways positive, but in some ways negative. And one of the things we talk about now is you know how can an individual I'm gonna answer for both of you guys, how can you not overly focus on the man you you focus on the man in the mirror while not overly valuing what others think? However, being in a world where you're constantly having to build a brand and people have to validate you to a certain extent because so much of that nowadays is tied to your ability to to make money or close deals or you know, get contracts. So how how what advice can you give to the younger generation of how to how to balance uh you know building brand while still maintaining a sense of, I guess, you know, individuality? Because it's hard to say, like, oh, you can't focus on what other people think. Nowadays we live in an attention-based economy, so there's a direct correlation between how people think about you and view you and your ability to you know produce means for your family in these days. So how can young man how how can we balance that from your guys' perspective?

SPEAKER_02

It's a lot tougher world today than it was when I was 20 years old, a lot less forgiving. I still think it comes back to number one, it starts with in integrity, it starts with self-accountability, it's being someone that you can trust because we've seen at Michigan State, at Michigan, we we see high-profile people that have it all, and lack of character destroys everything. So getting back to the man in the mirror, you can fool people image-wise and branding-wise, but where the rubber meets the road, you have to add value. And you have to A, have the know who you are, what are your skill sets. I'm sorry, if you're 4'11 and you want to be center in the NBA, it's not gonna happen. Know your skill set and and combine that with your passion. And when you add value, you will never get downsized. You don't have to worry about artificial intelligence downsizing me. Where you don't add value, you're vulnerable. You're always gonna be vulnerable. So I just I understand you have to brand yourself, but make sure if you're branding yourself, you're adding value, bringing relationships. If you're selling widgets and you have solid relationships with the top 20 widget customers, guess what? You're not gonna get downsized. If you don't have relationships and you're sitting at a keyboard and you're not adding value, you're very vulnerable. I mean, but that's that's his that that's it's only gonna continue with the way that it is right now, the way that's been the last 20 years. I've I've never seen somebody that's a shaker and a mover get downsized. So don't get don't get too caught up in image stuff and branding stuff where the rubber meets the road. Make sure you're being productive, and you can look at yourself at the end of the day and say, I like what I see. And there's gonna be you're gonna fall and you're gonna fail more than you succeed. It's the And you might lose some sleep too, and not be happy about the way you performed or reacted to something that's not always it's it's not how high you climb, it's how high you bounce after you've fallen down, and it's the adversity that makes achievement in life great at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_05

I just love that you use the old school term, sales term widgets. Like I just remember coming up in sales, and that was the go-to, like, well, say you're selling widgets. And that makes me feel a little bit more mature. I think for me, honestly, and like my legacy, and I talked about this with Steven before, my legacy is how good of young men we consistently put out here of Catholic Central, seeing the kids that I've been able to affect come back as young employees, young husbands, young fathers, and things like that. And I know that's kind of a cliche answer, but to make it more personal, what kind of young men are my 10-year-old and seven-year-old gonna become? Who are they becoming daily? Are they kind? So, in terms of my legacy, like that's a big part of it. But in terms of what people think, I think the older you get and the quicker that some of the younger people out here can learn this, I don't care what people think about me. I know if I'm living my life the right way, faith forward, family forward, leading with love, then I'm perfectly fine with that. I'll sleep like a baby every night. Do I do everything right? No, do I make a lot of mistakes? But we talk about it on here, we fail forward. Can't change anything that happened yesterday. If I wake up this morning, plant both feet, and attack the day, things are gonna get better. You do a really good job because you have to play both parts. You build your own personal brand. Now you have your full-time job here, but you build your own personal brand. A lot of what you do is to make sure that you get attention and monetize on social media. But then in the rest of the stuff that you do, you do a good job in showing how you're adding value while also incorporating that into your brand, some of your speaking engagements when you do Thanksgiving giveaway turkey giveaways. So you do a good job of incorporating both of them together. I think I think some people that want that attention, their identity is what they present on social media, and then their train wrecks behind the scenes.

SPEAKER_06

One thing that my mentor taught me, I would say about five years ago, that really kind of just kind of because I was a CC, I always took I went to all boys school. So I was up until I was about probably up until like 23. I thought I was had the all-boys school conservative view. I thought social media was weird, you know what I'm saying? Um, but then you definitely flipped that, yeah, yeah. But then once I saw how lucrative, you know, uh uh it it was and maximizing some of the gifts that God had gave me. But I thought I'd say Gary V gave me this framework at 25 years old when I went to one of his uh NFT conferences, and he was like, the goal should never be to create content, the goal should be to document your life. And so that is when the trajectory and when my followers took off because it's like, yeah, like I hang out at my high school and do my offseason workouts here. Yeah, then I'll fake. Yeah, like then I'll go and speak, then I'll go to a study group, then I'll go and help out with our group homes, then I'll come and hang out and eat mango with you. And I think people need to get into that. I think overly curated content is really hurting society because it's false, you know, and so I think the reason why Gary V, who's a person that's like not overly polished and he swears and he comes from uh you know, like a Jewish background and he has an amazing mother, and is because he just documents what he does. And I think if people could could get out of content creation again and just like documenting what they actually do, I think, I mean, I think it it takes the like the mental toll off of them because there's no need to really, you know, like like fake the funk, you know, like it's gotta be exhausting though.

SPEAKER_05

Like if you if if you're presenting a false persona on social media and live in a different way, it's gotta be exhausting because you gotta keep that gimmick up and you gotta find different ways to put your social media face forward. It's just like the Kairos talk on wearing masks. It's like you can put on masks all day long, but at some point that's gotta come off and you gotta deal with who you really are.

SPEAKER_06

And I think, you know, one of the why I'm so extremely blessed, coming from an amazing family, my CC family and my actual family, is that at an early age, man, I learned that like it's only people that you actually see in real life that matter. I I think that's one of the things that I learned very early in life that help with my mental health is that like I only value people that I actually like know, you know. Um and I think one of the issues people face nowadays is they're valuing the opinions of people that know nothing about them, that don't care about them, aren't being value to them, aren't lifting them up, aren't praying for them, aren't with them during times of adversity. And so who does your high school athletic director, what type of man does he think you are? You know, your your wife, your your kids, you know, like the people that really know you. I think if anything, I value the opinions of people that actually know me and can make a legitimate critique of how I'm how I'm behaving, how I'm living my life, versus um, you know, a stranger online. And I think if a lot of our young men, but you know, y young men around the around the globe could hear that message and understand it, like focus on the people that actually bring value to your life and that actually know you because their critique actually comes from a certain level of genuine exposure to you. Yeah, love and respect. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I I think too for if I'm talking to the kids walking out here, I'm gonna say for all of us, somewhere not that long ago in the history of the world, our grandparents, our great grandparents, they were working in mines, they were working in factories with the hope and the dream that someday a generation might be able to live the American dream. They put us on their back. I would remind each and every young person that I talk to, go home tonight and look your mom and dad in the eye in an imperfect world and let them know that you love them and let them know that you're trying to be the absolute best version of yourself you can be, and you're not gonna let them down. Because one thing I have learned when you're focused on trying to do the right things for your family, that's a lot stronger than your own personal motivation. So you can have millions of dollars in the bank and you can be a social media star if you don't have a good relationship with your spouse, if you don't have a good relationship with your parents or your kids, or you don't have friends that you can sit there and reminisce with, there's a huge void. That's that's very difficult. Sounds lonely. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I I I heard it once said that as you get older, you want the definition of success. What kind of relationship do you have with your adult children? Yeah. And if you have everything else, but you have one of your kids that won't talk to you, you'll on your deathbed die miserable. And if you have a great relationship with your adult children and your family members, no matter if you have $20 in the bank, you'll you'll rest in peace very fulfilled.

SPEAKER_05

The reason I'm burning ear to ear is because you talk about your relationship with your grown children. Now your grandfather, right? Yeah. Kelsey's got kids. Yeah, uh, Ryan's got kids. Yeah, fine. Garrett, we're still we're still working on.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, still working on big dead. Yeah, yeah. Hopefully he doesn't have any for a while.

SPEAKER_05

But Garrett still sends, you know, he'll post the picture from the track and say, like, ran this. And I'm I always wonder if he really ran during that time, which I love to call it.

SPEAKER_02

Lumbered, maybe better at all. Power walked. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

But you you talk about your relationship with your kids. I recently saw a picture of you when you guys went to Disney, yeah, where everybody had the matching t-shirt on. I think yours said that's Kim. Grandpa, Kim had grandma, everybody else had their t-shirts on. Yeah, beautiful. That that to me speaks volumes, not only because it it it was the whole family that went together. And like, you're like me, you know, you like to wear stuff that shows your arms off a little bit when you're in good shape and stuff. Used to, yeah. And you know, and seeing you in that picture, I'm like, it was just so typical to see you in something like that because of the relationship you've had with your kids. And I mean it it's just and I know you want that same relationship with your grandkids too.

SPEAKER_02

While while we're out there, I mean, achievers are not gonna be liked by underachievers. Underachievers aren't going to be so right off the bat, everybody's not gonna love you. But this life has taught me, and my wife has done a great job hitting me over the head and reinforcing it. It's one thing to sit there and look at your portfolio and look at your accomplishments and knowing that you're mentoring other people, but also have a photo album that every month you're creating life's memories for your friends and your families because so many people miss that and they are they they amass great wealth and they're very successful business-wise, but they're not creating life's memories. And my Kim and I, at this point, our job is to create life's memories for our children and our grandchildren for however long we have left on this earth. That's that's our primary purpose.

SPEAKER_05

Do you feel like even more now, every day is Saturday, since you're technically retired?

SPEAKER_02

Every day has always been Saturday, but every day now is engaging with my grandchildren and watching them and loving my my family is my priority. That's why when I got to be 62, that's when I I started winding down other things because I started having grandchildren. It's like I you can't serve two masters. I can't be at Boise Cascade. I can't be on a committee meeting and with my grandchildren on Tuesday, the Tuesday kids' concerts on Tuesday morning in downtown Northville from Tendu. You can't be at two places. I can't be watching my grandkids on a Thursday afternoon and be in a meeting someplace.

SPEAKER_05

So even though Chris is single, single, I don't want to get I don't want to step on any toes in here.

SPEAKER_06

You're act actively dating or I mean the Bible only acknowledges husbands and wives.

SPEAKER_05

So I'm can I'm gonna use one of your terms here allegedly. The fact that you said that with a straight face, really I was I was impressed for about two seconds. I'm surprised Sean is a crying laughing over there.

SPEAKER_06

The Bible speaks of husbands.

SPEAKER_05

But the one thing I will give you credit on, and I know I say it a lot, but you know, when you talk about the priority being your family and and you know what kind of man you want your your grandkids to see and your own kids. I'm the same way with Brooks and Bo. Even though you're not married with kids, Chris, you do a great job of going to youth events, you'll come to Brooks's games or Bobo's games, you went to watch Teague Hancock play and other family members. Anthony tomey went to support his flag football team, I think it was. I can't wait to see how much more you level up when you finally have kids of your own. Because I know I always say that to you all the time, like, oh, just wait till you find out. People used to say it to me too, like, it changes you. I'm like, you have him as a baby, it's it changes you a little bit, but then they start to grow and you're like, kids like dogs.

SPEAKER_02

No, he's a gentle giant. You can just tell that kids are going to be attracted to the biggest.

SPEAKER_05

There's no, listen, every kid I've ever seen around him. Exactly. Yeah, he's a he's he's like kindergarten cop.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Clouding all over himself.

SPEAKER_02

He can be a tough guy, but he's got a soft side in the comparison itself.

SPEAKER_05

Chris, uh holding Brooks in the weight room as a baby when Chris had a man bun. John, you ever see that? Chris had the man bun on top of it? One episode we're gonna do the hairstyles of Chris McCoy.

SPEAKER_06

I don't like the camo compression shirt.

SPEAKER_05

Uleveless sweatshirt.

SPEAKER_06

Like a vent, like an event.

SPEAKER_05

I don't know what it was.

SPEAKER_06

Dude, what's up? I've had some interesting, I've had, I've had a lot of fashion diversity over the years.

SPEAKER_05

There's no doubt about it. You're you're a free spirit when it comes to when it comes to fashion. Wisk, with you, you know, I like I said, I know you weren't born with with some of this stuff. Some of it I think you were, though, with just your spirit and your positivity and things like that. Who were some of the mentors that you had outside of your coaches that really helped you sharpen that iron? I know like Dale Carnegie, I know you've studied that quite a bit. And when I read up on that stuff still to this day, it makes me think of you immediately because we had great conversations.

SPEAKER_02

My my hero obviously is my father. My tragically, he died when he was 52 years or 62 years old of heart disease, so he will always be my hero in terms of non-family Coach Mack, had a bigger influence, Coach Mack, Coach Karate. And then I was fortunate in the business world because I had all those different personalities as I navigated through corporate America. I had John Wooden type bosses, but I also had Woody Hayes and Bobby Knight type bosses as well. And it was fine because the Bobby Knight and the Woody Hayes, they they let me have it. You know, keep your mouth shut, sit in the back of the room, so you know, surround yourself with smart, sharp people and do what they tell you to. You'll be fine. I I I mean, they they they would mentor me and they would hit me over the head, not Dale Carnegie, because they knew I could I could handle it. And so I was very, very blessed. So I I there there were gentlemen at Boise Cascade, Stan Bell, Nick Stokes, Mike Scalavino, my my mentors that would close the door, tell me what's right, tell me what's wrong, anything I can help you with, anything that's affecting your the people that in in Detroit that I can help with. That's all I needed. I I I will die before I let these people down. That would that was my mentality. That's all I needed. Getting back to, you know, I think that's missed in today's world. All you need to know is that two minutes, how can I help? Anything right? Anything you're having problems? If there is a problem, come see me. We'll navigate through it, go through the proper channels. And if that's not working, I'm not gonna throw you under the bus. I'm not gonna be sloppy, but we'll figure out how to get the problem done.

SPEAKER_05

No complaints with the problem. Life's pretty simple. Yeah, it's not really just communicate, just be a good human being. Like correct. I was listening to we we talked about this before, Chris. Mel Robbins, who I love. She's uh she wrote a book and it's about let them. And it's it's just having that let them mentality to where it says, like, hey, if if so-and-so was like this on a daily basis, that's them. I know that. Just let them be like that and don't let it affect you. You know what I mean? And I I think that's a a huge part of it. You know, you've taken a lot of leadership chances, but I think it comes from your heart. Do you feel like that that's ever gotten in you in a bit of a pickle in the professional sense that you lead so much with your heart? Did it ever mucky the waters at all, or was it it, did it make things easier for you?

SPEAKER_02

No, don't mistake kindness and compassion for weakness. And if we have talented people whose hearts are in the right spot, we'll figure it out, we'll navigate through it. And if we have cancers, if we have people that are becoming a drag on the team, my team will let me know, and they would come to me and say, We're done, you gotta do something. Okay. Yeah, I've got a backbone, I have compassion, but when you start hurting the team because you're becoming a distraction and you're gonna take us backwards, you gotta go.

SPEAKER_01

Yep.

SPEAKER_06

So, okay, so it brings me to the to this to this point. I want both you guys to answer this. I I uh one of my favorite thought leaders, her name is her name is Layla. She speaks of this like thing called be kind, not nice. And so it seems like that's kind of what you were referring to a little bit. Like, you know, being the right type of person, but not being a pushover. How what what is that what does that look like for you guys?

SPEAKER_02

How how are you able to balance like being the right type of guy, being the man that you seek to become, being uh, you know, I I found it easy because because we were football players and we're big in stature, I was mentored never get mad, but every now and then we need you to act like you're mad to get the point across, and nobody's gonna mess with you. Yeah, God forbid, if anybody does, then you you know you don't unload on them. But like I say, don't mistake kindness for weakness, and as long as you're doing the right things and you're trying, I'll do anything to protect you, anything to help you. If if you start undermining, undermining, or you start being excessively negative, or you're not giving the effort, and it starts to affect other people, and our achievers are looking at you as the leader and saying, Hey, wait a minute, you're asking us to go the extra mile, and you're looking the other way on this person, you need to do something here. Every now and then the lion has to roar, and every now and then you need to sit down with somebody and just say, I always found you sit down with them, you let them know exactly. One, two, three, you're you you've left early on Fridays at two o'clock, and everybody notices it. You aren't making outbound going phone calls. You made three yesterday, for example, you're smoking cigarettes for 15 minutes on every hour five times a day. I mean, boom, boom. And there's nothing here that isn't correctable. But if you don't correct these things, one of two things is gonna happen. I'm gonna be miserable and you're gonna have to go. You're going to resign and go find someplace else because obviously you're not having fun and you're not fulfilled here, or you're gonna be terminated. One of the three and usually what happens is within a month they check every box again and you bring them in and say, okay, this, this, this, and you document, and boom, you're gone. And but it it's never fun. You never want to feel good about it, but every now and then, just like if you're a football coach at the NFL, you you have to cut people every now and then. It's it's part of you know, I mean everyone every now every three. You and I, we we we we you know, we know about that.

SPEAKER_05

But okay. I've been cut from teams before too, man. Starting to get cut from the league.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, those cut.

SPEAKER_05

Freshman basketball was the last time, so I finally got over that.

SPEAKER_06

Changed my life.

SPEAKER_05

I know it for the better. You finally got the focus, you didn't have to get skinny. You know, it's funny though, because in talking about Gary Vee, he had one yesterday and it was really similar about being kind, being nice. And and he, you know how big he is on giving grace and empathy and listening and things like that. And he's like, listen, I'll even let you mess me over one time, and I'm gonna be like, okay, you know, I'm gonna keep my spidey senses up. He's like, second time, he's like, I'll still give grace. And he's like, but the third time, he's like, that's when I gotta cut you off because you're just not part of the circle and moving the way that I move. I can be kind to everybody. And I really saw that I read a book called The Art of Happiness by the Dalai Lama, and he says, even if you're in an elevator with somebody and it's the only time you see them in your lifetime, and you're in there for three seconds, make that the most positive three seconds they might have that day. So if I'm alone in an elevator with somebody, hey, how you doing? You having a good day? Like blah, blah, blah. Just little touches like that. But there's no way in H E double hockey sticks, I'm gonna let somebody take advantage of me. I'm not gonna let someone disrespect me, disrespect me because like you said, Whisk, a lion doesn't have to tell other people or other animals. He's a lion. They know. Yeah, they know right away. So every once in a while, you do have to let that out. I try not to let it happen out of anger, but I will get my point across and make sure that at the end of that, if it's a tough conversation, we circle back around and make sure we came up with some type of agreement. Now, if it keeps happening and and you constantly disagree or we constantly disagree, we just don't miss. We just don't vibe because we're not we're not moving the same way.

SPEAKER_06

You've gotten actually, I mean, I think I I learned it early because like I said, I'm like a very much if I see a hot stove, like I don't gotta touch it. I don't know why I'm like that, but I've I've I've been a very big learning from others' mistakes and just be coachable. One thing that you've gotten tremendously better at that I learned from you early was that you have to have like duality of relationships. And before when I was growing up, it was like you were just kicking it with everybody, pouring in everybody, people just trying to like use you, leverage the relationship while not pouring back into you, not checking on you. And I think I noticed you going through that a lot when I was younger, and I think it made me a little more hyper-vigilant to people that aren't bringing value, aren't checking on me, they're just coming around and get get their cup filled. Where nowadays I think you do a phenomenal job of like being present with certain people, but then like your actual inner circle and friend and family are the people that more so kind of like weigh on your like emotions, and you're and you're gonna take that extra, extra, extra step. And it's made you you know a lot happier.

SPEAKER_02

100% there's there's there's IQ intellectual quotient, which is your GPA, and then there's life smarts, and there's emotional quotient. And I always tried to mentor my people give your heart and soul to those worthy of receiving your heart and soul. And when we were with our customer base, there are customers that are loyal customers that we will stand in our head and do anything we can to help them, and then there are transactional, and don't make the mistake of emotionally putting your heart and soul into people that are going to use you when it works for them, and understand from an intellectual standpoint and from an emotional standpoint. There are transactional when it when it works for both sides, it's fine, but don't put those people in the bucket that you're giving them your heart and soul and doing everything you can to save that for the people that would do the same for you.

SPEAKER_05

I feel like nowadays it's getting easier to see through those people. Oh, because they don't they don't care anymore. No, because it's easy, it's quickly d'emonic now.

SPEAKER_06

I think before there was like a certain level of like, hey man, you got you got you gotta bring value. Don't be using people. I think when I was growing up, it kind of started to trail off a little bit. But now it's like, no, go get what you can, eat what you kill. Like it's like they just like go and use them up. You gotta be a savage and run right over people.

SPEAKER_05

In certain instances, like, okay, if I have a goal and I have competition for that goal, I'm gonna run right over you. But I'm not looking to step on other people's backs to get myself to the top. I want to bring a real leader, brings people with him. Like, I want to I want to know that when I retire as the athletic director at Catholic Central, I maybe have trained somebody underneath me that can come right in and take over, like Bob Santello did. Never thought I would do that, but when I sat down with him, he's like, Listen, you need to think about this, blah, blah, blah. And and that's something that I said. Like, I've learned that from Jeff when I heard him talk about like national business meetings he would go to and the things he would say to people, or just telling somebody, hey, I saw what you did the other day when you pick this up off the floor. You know, I really appreciate that. But it it does go back to just being a good human being and the Dale, I hate to bring it up again, but it is really like the Dale Carnegie stuff and a lot of the other stuff I listen to. See your people. Love your people up, get to know them, let them know you care, figure out who pours back into you. And have I'm perfectly fine with keeping a small circle, but I know everybody in my circle. If I needed them to pour back into me or they needed me to pour into them, all they got to do is call or shoot me a text. And it might just be somebody saying, Hey, I hope you're having a good day, or like, we'll send little things back and forth, and I'll get a text from him out of nowhere, and it's like, yeah, man, it just and that's life. Like, yeah, I don't need a million friends with when only four of them are pouring back into me and really caring about who I am.

SPEAKER_02

So I I learned that again, just write taking three minutes and writing somebody a sincere note. What a lost art. I mean, everybody's emailing, everybody's texting, handwritten. Oh I I I I every month going out and buying a birthday cake and saying we've got three birthdays this month, we've got four birthdays this month. Take you 20 minutes. You you don't think that that affects the psyche of people and they feel appreciated, and every on their birthday, everybody in the place is saying, hey, happy birthday when you're doing gifts for people, not just a generic gift, something that that is customized. There's all kinds of blankets and things that you can do, woodcraft things. It's taking a couple minutes to customize to let a human being sincerely know that they're appreciated. You bring tears to their eyes with with with a couple minutes of thought and kindness and and sincere gratitude.

SPEAKER_05

I think that the three of us, and and Sean included, too, because when he says certain things like, you know, we'll thank Sean for stuff and he's like, Oh, I love this and this, but then I'll see him post little things about his band, which you know I gotta mention every single time we're on here. Sean's band has a new record out, make sure you go pick that up. Support the cause. But I see him got the record, you feel me? You got it? Already got the record. You don't have a record player at home, I guarantee it, do you?

SPEAKER_06

Why does that matter? Oh, it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_05

When you have a physical convert.

SPEAKER_06

I've been to actual concerts.

SPEAKER_05

So I haven't gotten invited. She doesn't post a tour. But I think when you get to that point, too, to where Only Brother It's not easy to orchestra over I can see that. So, you know, when you give gifts to people, I you know, I I I don't I can't say that that's easy, but when you have that gift you can give, and it's something you say to them, and you see that same reaction to where it brings tears to their eyes. Because we constantly tell the boys here, guys, you don't know what's going on in someone's life outside of CC. Like even in the adults, like we come here and we put on a good face for the kids, but I could be going through it at home. So I'm even careful, careful with some of the jokes I throw out. Like, we've apologized to each other in the past about certain things, just because we can be that honest with each other. But I said something to an IT guy one day, like just jokingly, and I knew they were in the thick of it, and he knows my sense of humor, but I saw him kind of put his head down for a second. Yeah, and he walked away, and I was like, Oh man, that that yeah. I go back to him, I apologize to him 20 minutes later. He's like, No, I didn't even care about what you said. I was kind of laughing. I put my head down, smiling, and I was like, Oh, okay. Yeah, like, but I thought I affected him in a different way. And I think that's what I think we've sharpened that iron over time to where we can feel when someone's struggling. Empathy. It's the same thing in an interview. Like, I can literally feel it in my soul if somebody's gonna be a good fit to be a coach here at Catholic Central. Correct. You can have the greatest resume, but if I can feel that you're not going to love our kids up, you can't coach here. Correct. It's gotta be the number one. If I feel like you don't love yourself, you can't coach here because I know you can't pour love into other people. I'm my own biggest fan. Not in that way.

SPEAKER_02

No, be behavior is very predictable. Yep. Very predictable.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. One thing that we uh we talk about here a lot is servant leadership and and truly living that. You know, when you were at Boise Cascade, I I heard about some of the things you were able to do philanthropically. Is that something that you got from your mom and your dad, your faith, through Coach Mack always talking about the magic being in a league?

SPEAKER_02

I think it was more being a football player and being good enough to get to the NFL and to hang around long enough to, you know, be vested and have the retirement. But also always being the 45th guy, I was very sensitive to I want to coach people up. I don't I don't like coaches that just sit there and rip on me. I like coaches that look me in the eye and believe that I can be better and give me a little pep talking when I got out into the business world. It's like that's what that's what I want to do. I want to spot talent. I want to surround myself with people who are strong where I'm not strong, and I want to throw gasoline on their talent and support them and love them and give them a fun place to come to work every day, and we'll let the results speak for themselves. And it it it it it worked. It it was it was delightful.

SPEAKER_05

It was I have two final questions for you. One's a question and one I want you to motivate the people up there. But the first one successful man, husband, father, grandfather, NFL, USFL, the Arena League, widely successful at Boise Cascade and other at So what's left for Jeff Whiskey?

SPEAKER_02

The most important chapters in the book of my life, whether it be two years or whether it be thirty years, are the chapters that I've yet to write. And that's what I appreciate being around guys like you, because as you get older, you need youth and you need energy, and the world is growing technologically and marketing-wise and branding-wise, and guys like me need guys like you. It's my turn to learn from you guys and to get energized from you. So pressure. No, but the the reality is what what's written is written. Yep. You know, nothing older than yesterday's news. If if I walk around and go to Target next door and raise my hands in the air and say, hey man, I played three years in the NFL. I look like Al Bundy, I'd look like a doofus. You can't you can't do that. So, but what I do have control over is going home, being a good husband, being a good parent, being a good grandparent, and being a good friend. And that is what is most important to me. And that's why I again Catholic Central has been an annuity to me, because it wasn't just the four-year experience, then it was the I I would I was here coaching when I was in the USFL, and then in dad's club, and now with with with with you guys doing stuff. Like life is, you know, you are who you hang out with. And if I go to the pearly gates and God looks me in the eye and says, Who did you hang out with? I was with the CC guy, okay. I'm I'm good with that. That's a win. I I might spend some time in purgatory, but probably with another CC guy. I've I've never, and Coach Max said the same thing, just got together with him and a bunch of our 77 guys a couple months ago at Sandy's on the beach. We've never met the quality and the character and the big-heartedness and the intelligence of the people that you meet through Catholic Central in any other entity that you'll any other business, any other entity. It's true.

SPEAKER_05

I mean, it's it's it's a special.

SPEAKER_02

It is for me. I I'm a testimonial. I can't I I'm not I'm not marketing, I'm just speaking from my heart.

SPEAKER_05

I fell in love with this place more after I left it and was able to come back, which I know when you got to be you were able to come back and coach as well at CC. I fell in love with it more because I loved my experience, but I fell in love with it because I saw what it meant to so many different kids and what it could mean to somebody just on a daily basis.

SPEAKER_02

I was married by a Catholic Central Priest, Father Clemens. Ryan was married by Father Wheeler. Our grandson was baptized by Father Wheeler. I've been intricately involved in the dad's club sharing the corn roast, been on the finance committee, been on the board of directors. I mean, you name it, I've done it in my You won the drive drawing? Forgot about it. I've lived. And and and I Again, it's pro the best thing that ever happened to me was uh Catholic Central because it allowed me to live the American dream, and I'm I I will forever be grateful for that.

SPEAKER_05

Part B of that one. Yeah, the way that we usually end the House of Podcast or House of Hammers podcast uh on a weekly basis whenever we do one is we always want us three or whoever guests we have on, just to give the listeners, whoever it might be. I don't care if five people watch it, three people watch it, as long as somebody gets something out of it. I love it. It's one of my favorite things that we do here because you just get to sit down and really talk about a lot of positivity. But what positivity can you give the listeners and the viewers out there to get them through the rest of this day, the next day, and and whatever else it might be, something that they can carry with them on a daily basis?

SPEAKER_02

I would say look your spouse in the eye, look your kids in the eye. If you're younger, look your parents in the eye, get on the phone and call your grandparents and tell them that you understand the responsibility that you have being the best version of yourself. And even though you're imperfect and we stumble, you love them, you're grateful, you're blessed, and you're going to continue to try to improve on yourself and be the best version of yourself that you can because you don't want to let those that you love down. Chris, good luck. I'll let you go second.

SPEAKER_06

No, you go. Nope. Oh, he's going second. Um if it doesn't go against God, your family, and it doesn't hurt people, chase it. Chase that goal, chase that dream. But one of the things I've been sharing with our with our people is that the less validation you need in order to make your dream come true, the the less likely it's gonna happen. Like if you're constantly needing validation to make your dreams come true, it's not gonna happen. You know why? Because it takes a lot of time to go around asking the wrong type of people for permission. So if it doesn't go against God, it doesn't go against your family, it doesn't go against your belief, it doesn't hurt people, chase it. And if it doesn't negatively impact like that criteria, keep keep keep chasing it, man, and and and pursue it. Because people are gonna hate either way. I think that's one thing that we've all learned. If you're doing the right thing, people are gonna hate. If you're doing the wrong thing, people are gonna hate. So just just focus on controlling the controllables and you know and and minimizing validation from the wrong type of people and just and just get after it.

SPEAKER_05

There's one I heard the other day that's just been on my heart. It it's part of it is because the guy who said it sounded like Charlie Syracuse. Rest of soul. But he said, I looked in your cup to see if you had enough. You looked in my cup to see if I had more than you. We're not the same. Be very careful of what people value, what they value you for, what they see in you. I love that because I think sometimes we don't understand why people want to relationship build with us, what value they place on us, or what we even value in other people. But for me, it hit close to home because I surround myself with those people that are constantly looking at my cup to see if I have enough. And in turn, they know I'm looking in theirs to see if they have enough. We don't care if we have more than each other. We just want to let each other know that, hey, I got you. If you need a little a little bit more, and in turn, I know you got me. That's what I think is special about what we do as men on a daily basis. When we look in that mirror, we're able to look at that guy and say, listen, we're gonna get after it today. I love who's looking back at me. We're gonna go attack and do everything we can to love people up and to motivate. So I'm a better man, a better husband, a better father because of you, Wisk. And you were a mentor to me when I really didn't know what direction I was going in. When I first got home from college and started coaching, I had to get some other stuff together in my life. But every time I came back here and got to spend time with people like you and the kids, I don't know if those kids in those first few years I was coaching, I don't know if they understand how much they helped me keep it together because I wasn't on the greatest path. But when I came back here, I knew this is where I was supposed to be and would help make me whole and I could figure everything else out. So I can't thank you enough for just being the human being that you are. You know how much I love you, I love your family. Kim is a saint, obviously. Yeah, I think which people have said for years. So make sure you tell her I said that.

SPEAKER_02

We don't walk into a room and people, you know, look at her and say, Boy, you got the better end of the deal. That doesn't happen.

SPEAKER_05

Take it from somebody who also outkicked their coverage. We we we did pretty good for a couple CC.

SPEAKER_02

CC. Yeah, exactly. C C if I if if if if I didn't have CC background, I I doubt she would have ever I would have been the man that I am that she would have wanted to be with me.

SPEAKER_05

Um Well, I know you look for ways to continuously improve yourself, even though you know we're we're getting a little older, but try and I mean hair dye only takes you so far.

SPEAKER_02

I'm trying to 200, you know, down to 200 pounds, staying in shape, trying to You get one body, take care of it. Most important thing.

SPEAKER_05

I mean That's Chris, we talk about that all the time, every day.

SPEAKER_06

Sheesh.

SPEAKER_05

You know, I always gotta give you your flowers when you're on here too. I love to see the continued growth. I love the brotherhood. Like I I feel like even though you're a little bit larger than me, I love that little brother role that you fulfill for me being an only child. And I know that as much stuff as I give you, you know it comes from my heart. And to watch you continue to take chances, fail forward, and fail big, that's everything that I know that I had hoped for you when Whisk met you at a young age, and and even Sean too.

SPEAKER_06

I mean, I looked up to his sons. I mean, I remember thinking like crazy, man.

SPEAKER_02

No, it's been a joy to watch both of you guys.

SPEAKER_06

Being a freshman, I thought like I remember when I was a little, I mean a little freshman in my head, like I thought Ryan was a little bit more.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I don't know that you were a little freshman. No, he mentally he was a quarterback, so he was small.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, I thought Ryan was the one that cool, because he was, you know, he was the he was like the strong senior, he would like wear super tight clothes. I was like he was like a superhero.

SPEAKER_02

A little history though. Uh going back when Mr. Santello was retiring, Father Ranaletti asked me to be on the selection committee for his re and and I just knew. I knew I knew your passion, I knew your background. I so where you I know you're saying thank you. I I say thank you to you because you validated I I believed in you, and I saw a lot of times people look at a resume and they hire a resume, and really what you want to do is you want to find the future superstar. And I knew you were a superstar human being, and you've been a superstar dad, a superstar husband, and you've been a superstar athletic director, and you still got some runway in front of you, so you'll be doing it for a while. Keep up uh you guys both keep up. You you you light up the room and people smile when you guys are coming in and you're making a difference and an impact in a positive way on so many young men. That's as honorable a life as you can live. It's the best. You guys keep it all.

SPEAKER_05

It's the best. And I love having you around. I love having you at the games and just seeing you guys at places and your family and the grandkids. It's it's just I never left. I've never left. It's the best. You don't have to at a place like this. And Chris, I know you want to give one more plug-out when all else fails.

SPEAKER_06

But honestly, if you guys just want to keep creating more superstar men, superstar husbands, superstar fathers, you know, one way that you can continue continue to contribute to Catholic Century, being able to build and cultivate such amazing young men is by donating to the 1928 Club. If you want to keep the cultivation and growth and more importantly, help inspire, help us roll out to more resilience, continue to help our school, man. That's how we're able to do the great things that we do. You can go to Catholic Century.net, head over to the alumni page, man. There's a plethora of different information there. Get involved, get engaged, man. We'd love to have you on campus.

SPEAKER_05

Sean, if I'm not mistaken, Mike Liddell's name is outside of this podcast room, yes? Yes. Yes. I will be spending time with Mike Liddell on our spring break trip to South Carolina. So I'll make sure that uh I'll let him know we've been taking full advantage of this. And maybe lots of people. If you want to donate anything else, of course, we'd be more than happy to maybe need a little invite on the on the show. Oh, trust me, I I can bring him on here. I'm gonna have to give him some serious guidelines, but we will get him on. But it another phenomenal episode, like I said, 14 episodes of positivity, love, faith, and and everything you could think of. And having Jeff Whisk on here from the class of 1977, just an absolute legend of a human being. Our co-host Chris Okoy, myself, and on behalf of the man behind the boards, Sean Sova, we love you guys. We wish you nothing but the best.

SPEAKER_02

Chris, Aaron, Sean, I love you guys. Thank you. Thank you. It's an honor. It's an honor to be your brother. Older brother, much older brother, but it's an honor.

SPEAKER_05

This is getting me emotional out here. I don't want to cry and yeah, you guys got me all pumped up.

SPEAKER_02

I'm not gonna drive home. I'm probably gonna run home at this point. You'll be in the weight room throwing up two topics. Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna go through 25 on the bench and see how many reps I can do before I rip my rotator cuff again.

SPEAKER_05

But our challenge to everybody out there, just go out there and do something positive. See somebody, say something nice to somebody, smile at someone, do something that's gonna make somebody else feel special because in turn that's gonna make you feel special. And that's what uh that's what being a hammer is all about. So we love you guys. Tap in, check one of the many other past episodes out, some of the other CC podcasts, slightly less scripted. We've got a couple other ones that the kids do. It's just a lot of great things going on here, but this is for everybody out there. So hopefully you got a good takeaway, some positivity, and found out a little bit more about one of our heroes, Jeff Whisken, the usual madness between Chris and myself. So we love you guys, and when all else fails, keep hammering.