SPEAKER_03 0:02

Okay. We're back. I did have someone. Oh yeah, I didn't hear you started recording. I did have someone ask if they feel like tattoos affect um uh being on stage and bodybuilding at all. I was like, that's a good question. Like it's a fair like question to ask because I feel like placement matters a lot, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

Yeah, I mean, well, let's just literally answer that now. I mean, I have story back in 2019, I was quite fixated and worried about my tattoos. Like I have tattoos on my sternum and on both of my sides, and I was worried about it affecting my placing or placements in shows or you know, anything like that. I actually covered it up with makeup or with um because pro tan have like a tattoo cover-up thing. And um, I got them, I covered them up. They just looked faded, they didn't actually look as like prominent. And I actually specifically, because it was Toronto Pro, and I asked Tyler and he said, I didn't even know you had tattoos. And I was like, Cool. So, like, is in like previously before, like even before that, because I think I he judged, I think he did Toronto and then Vancouver or something like that, or like two shows back to back, or whatever it was, and I did one of them with makeup and one of them without. And he was like, I didn't even know you had tattoos anyway. I was like, cool. So you're not even like look, like that that concern that was I thought was a big deal, isn't now. Granted, like you said, placement does matter. So if it's covering something that they need to physically see, then maybe, and if someone is obviously like getting compared against you that doesn't have tattoos and they can see their physique better, you just have to accept the fact that that is unfortunately the case.

SPEAKER_03 1:43

I mean, it's a it's an aesthetic competition at the end of the day, right? Like if you have like a full leg sleeve and you can't see your hamstrings or your tie-ins or something, like it's gonna affect something. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

No, exactly. So, um, but yeah, most of the time they don't even notice. So that's fine. Um, but yeah, that I mean, any other good questions at all whilst we're here?

SPEAKER_03 2:05

Um, that was one of the ones that stuck out because I feel like we've just met like I feel like I heard that question years ago, and then I haven't heard it since. And it's one of those things where I feel like it'd probably be a more common question because there's like competing is more prominent than ever now, and a lot of people have tattoos.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

So yeah, I think I think people now have noticed or realized that like it not saying it doesn't matter at all, but I don't think it does really, to be fair. So I think that's why people stop asking a question because they're not even like concerned about it. Whereas previously back in the day, I think they were. Um, but yeah, I I agree with that one.

SPEAKER_03 2:39

So uh I did have someone ask about the RP app, which now you can see my flag up. And you're an athlete.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

Yes, I'm an athlete of RP as well.

SPEAKER_03 2:47

Code Corey, not code Phoebe. Code Phoebe.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

We haven't actually announced it yet, but we will be announcing it overseas soon. But yeah, that's that's really cool. I I really enjoyed being part of um RP and stuff like that. And I've been using the app now in like my improvement phase, and it's really cool to kind of see how it like works and stuff like that for sure. So, what was the question?

SPEAKER_03 3:07

Someone was asking what the RP app is, because we've I get we talked about it a few weeks ago, and that's when the question came in. And then I'm sure people have seen us doing the RP gym tours. So yeah, like a good summary for you guys is how it works is there's two trains of thought here, two ways that it works. Is you have if you're someone that doesn't have a training program, let's say you're just someone that wants to follow a workout routine, right? The app has populated workouts where let's say it says it's um Phoebe Hagen's like glute, glute building program, like whatever it may be, right? You can just click it and follow a six-week, an eight-week, a 12-week, however long the program is, kind of like what people used to do with bodybuilding.com back in the day, right? You go and find a workout program you want to hit and you follow it. Um, the to me, the more beneficial way of using this is if you have a coach or you have a trainer, you can um create your own training program in there, like from scratch. So you just take your training program, input it in there to follow. You put in the exercises, you put in the rep ranges, all the all the good stuff. Um, and then what the app does that makes it better than just a tracking app is it auto-populates your progressive overload for you. So it's engineered by very, very brilliant minds behind the in the training scene. And it takes into account like live feedback while you're training. It might ask you about your recovery time, it might ask you questions outside of the gym that have to do with how you're feeling. Um, and then it takes into account the history of your working set weight, the amount of reps you were hitting, all the above. And then every week, when you go into that same day again, it will auto-populate the progressive overload for you. So it might, so it takes the thinking out of you going into the exercise, right? If you're like, okay, last week I did 315 on my hip thrust for 10 reps. Um, do I want to go up this week? Do I want to add a rep? What do I want to do? It will just tell you what to do. You hit begin workout, and guess what? You're now doing 325 on your hip thrust instead of 315, and you're doing one more rep. And then it will ask you real-time questions after you hit that working set to then populate the next time you have that again and see if you need to back off a little bit, see if like, so there's just a lot that goes into it in that regard that us as the users don't need to think about. You just follow the program and follow what it says, and it works progressive overload-wise, which is what we're all trying to strive for, right? Is progressing every week, every two weeks, every three weeks. And again, takes the thinking out of how often you need to progress because it takes your real-time feedback, your biofeedback, and it enables you to progress at a proper rate. So that's what it does.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

Yeah, and I've been uh I've definitely started using that now, and I've been enjoying it because I'm now in my phase of you know progressive overload improving and like building and stuff like that. So it's been a lot of fun. So I've really enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_03 5:54

Yeah, it's great. Go for it.

SPEAKER_01 5:56

Good Phoebe. We're gonna be fighting back and forth with that so much.

SPEAKER_03 6:02

Okay. Okay, so Miami.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

Oh my god. I I actually, yeah, it was a it was a very, very good show. I want to let me share my screen. Get this. It was a great show.

SPEAKER_03 6:13

I was very, very happy with that show. Yeah, Lisa came back and looked amazing after what a year and a half off. And yeah, um, Laura Lee and Amy 3.0 now, matchup number three of the year for the two of them. Like, I forgot. You know what?

SPEAKER_01 6:27

It sounds so bad, but I forgot. I was like, when they were saying three, I was like, when was the first one? Because I was like, I couldn't remember, and then I was like, Oh yeah, it was the Arnold. I completely forgot. So um, but yeah, like they they both looked significantly better. I think Amy was tighter and Lorelie was fuller. And yeah, I definitely liked both of their looks here more than Pittsburgh.

SPEAKER_03 6:52

I personally feel I I liked Amy's more. I think I liked, and again, the backdrop's different, lighting's different. I was in person for one and I wasn't for the other. I liked Lorelee's Pittsburgh look, but again, I was in person there. I saw her up close, so yeah, a hard distinction for me there. But um, I do feel like Lorelee has such good body parts, such good glutes that she's able to come in that little bit tighter and she doesn't lose the fullness because she has created that insane density. So I feel like her coming in with a slightly tighter look, like Pittsburgh, um, is a little bit more in her favor. But regardless, this was a really good Amy. And for everyone listening, just goes to show you at the top, top, top level, like the littlest things are gonna separate these people. Um I think it was a one-point difference on the scorecards, right?

SPEAKER_01 7:45

Yeah, it was a one-point difference for but for all top four. So top four, and that's huge for Jessica as well. Yeah, so you've got one point difference between Amy and Laurelie, and then Issa, one point difference between Issa and Jessica, which is huge for Jessica because she literally, this is her pro her pro debut. Uh pro-day um pro uh debut. Yeah, first season.

SPEAKER_03 8:07

Yeah, and she hasn't, I don't think she's placed out of the top five yet, and she's gotten like two seconds. She like she's on a roll.

SPEAKER_01 8:14

The the New York pro, she wasn't in the top um the top five, but again, she got in first call outs. So I think she got seventh at that show. So um, so she did really well. Like she's had such a great season. I don't know if she's gonna continue, like keep going. I would if I was her, because I wouldn't have to go.

SPEAKER_03 8:32

Where does she get on the points list? Let's have a look. She's up. I think she was with Evie, right?

SPEAKER_02 8:37

Yeah, she's oh no, she's uh down at 10.

SPEAKER_03 8:39

No, she's at 10. Okay, that's good. She's gonna need more for the Olympia, but regardless, that's a really damn good pro debut season. Like, holy shit.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

I mean, I would if I was her, I would keep going. I would keep like doing shows, and like there are so many shows now, and people are competing.

SPEAKER_03 8:55

So like I would, you know, because it'd be you know, this weekend could knock you down one, you know, and you probably you know, over the next kind of couple of weeks, you could because I don't think that they're like uh going into Legion this weekend. I can't remember off the top of my head, but you have Savannah and like one or two other like like potential first places in there in my eyes. And if Savannah goes in and wins, she has three points right now.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

I think she's got four. Because she's got Warsaw.

SPEAKER_03 9:26

If she wins, she'll end up with 14, and that just bumped down the tens. So you're gonna see some big changes this weekend on the score sheet.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

And then you've got um we'll go through all of who's competing this weekend anyway, but you've also got Issa competing, and then you've got Rainer competing at Warsaw uh Um Legions as well. So it's gonna be interesting, but yeah. That's a good one. Oh yeah, go to Miami. I know we're jumping ahead. I'm like, wait, wait. Okay, so I mean, yeah, I just I I did love a slightly tighter Amy, um, just so she has she just has so much pop. And I do think this is the I personally prefer Laurelie's look here over it's just I like how full she is. That's what I like to see just a little bit more. Is like she's got the conditioning still, like there's not nothing's blurred in a week. Do you know what I mean? Like she's not filled out massively, but it just has just more like projection and pop, you know. Um which I prefer, but I really do love it.

SPEAKER_03 10:29

What did you think of uh Issa's front pose looking like it was a bit more straight on than how physically hits it in comparison to everyone else? Yeah, it was a lot more straight on.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

So it's so strange because on her own, when she does that kind of, you know, when she does the front pose and has wait, let me see. Yeah, this I mean she hits it like that normally anyway. And I think on her own it looks better, but I do think that when like this is crazy, like that's such a crazy front pose. But yeah, I think when she was next to Laura Lee and Amy, when they have their hips to the side and they're not as front-on, I do think it made her look a little thicker in the waistline, which I don't know how that is, because it's look at her waistline here, like it's tiny.

SPEAKER_03 11:21

I think it's a I think it's a matter of illusion, is what it comes down to.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

That's what I mean.

SPEAKER_03 11:25

Amy and Laura Lee have not just in the um in like the 45 degree turn of the waist, but also a little bit more density to their shoulders, a little bit more density to their legs. And so when you take into account the illusion of like the S curve, the hourglass frame, where they might have a little bit more up top, a little bit more in the legs, and Issa's a bit more petite in comparison. Um, I think that she needs to play to an even bigger, an even greater strength of how small her waist is and maybe turn it a tad bit more. That will make it look even more accentuated.

SPEAKER_01 11:59

I personally feel as well when I'm looking at this, like this is this is really exposed across here. And that's what I think is making her waistline look thicker, illusion-wise, when she's next to the other girls, because all of this is turned to the side for the other girls and it's tighter, like smaller, so there's less circumference showing. So I think because all of this is exposed, and then you've got the lat, which is really impressive by them by herself. But when she's then next to people, because this is exposed, it makes her look thicker, even though this is actually probably smaller than Laurelie's or Amy's. But because this is thicker, it makes her look thicker. Like uh, sorry, this is like more showing, it makes her look like she's thicker. So I I think it's hard because it comes down to, like you said, illusion and what she looks like next to other people more so than she does have a tiny waist. Like she has a tiny, tiny, tiny waist. Oh yeah. But you can see here how this part is showing, like all of this is showing versus Lorelise isn't, it looks thicker. Um and actually, to be fair, I actually think she looks like she's it looks like she's pulling her shoulder back more. She actually has more shoulder than she, like she could be showing off more shoulder than she actually is. Because she's twisting, because her waist is twisting this way, her body's going that way as well. So she actually needs to pull, pull round like the the the waist side into the side more and the upper body round more to the front, how Laura Lee's got it here. Because she's actually pulling back her lat and not showing as much.

SPEAKER_03 13:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

Yeah. If that makes sense. So I went into posing coach mode there. I was like, wow, I actually didn't realize that.

SPEAKER_03 13:40

You're post your post competition season now, and you got some food in you, and you're like, all right, let's fucking break it all down.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

I'm yeah, let's break it down. I'm ready for this, this, this, and all these things. But yeah, I agree. I I don't know if that's you know, I again that's my opinion, and she might do that and it might not work fair. But if she tries that and that, I feel like that would that would show off more of her taper because she has a taper, she has a crazy taper. So it's just trying to show that that density off, in it.

SPEAKER_03 14:08

Um and one thing I want to point out just because I saw it in so many comment sections, and obviously all the lore levers Amy taught going into this. Um, I think Damien said it really well when he uh did an interview where he said they are literally apples to oranges physique-wise. Yeah, like they don't they aren't comparative next to each other in terms of similarities. You're picking and choosing who looks better on that given day without being able to be like like have a direct comparison where it's apples to apples, they look very different physique-wise. And on any given day, this can flip. Like, like I said in the beginning, exactly like it has. Yeah, like it has. They are two extremely high-level competitors, both going for the Olympia win this year, um, and literally a one-point difference separating them here. And then you look back at the Arnold where Amy got the dub, you look at Pittsburgh two weeks ago where Laura Lee got it, like it's going to keep flip-flopping because even if they're both at a hundred percent, it comes down to judging preference. And this is why I bring up the apples to oranges um like analogy, is because yes, there is judging criteria, but when you are looking at preference of who matches that criteria better, there is the preference on who likes what physique more because both of them are the epitome of bikini in their given physique. Now, what judging panel likes who more that day? So that's really what this comes down to.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

And it also honestly could be a case of like like the tiniest things like posing and how confident you look. Like, I think Amy looked more confident at this show than Pittsburgh. So she might be a little bit, she might have been a little bit more nervous in Pittsburgh because you know she's won that three times, and like that's you know, her show. She enjoys that show. So she might have been just a little bit more nervous. And this time I I've not seen her this, like she's she had so much confidence at like when she was on stage. So I feel like again, that then shows to the judges, and that is eye-catching to the judges as well. So I do think that it makes a massive difference. That could be the one-point difference, you know? So I'm excited to see what Tyler's feedback will be.

SPEAKER_04 16:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

Um, and what he preferred. I'd like to know if he actually liked which one he liked, which physique he preferred um for both of them. Like what, like, would did he prefer Amy's? Well, I mean, he was the head judging, so I'm guessing he obviously preferred this one, but that's not just his opinion. Do you know what I mean? So I'd love to know if he preferred Pittsburgh look or Miami for Amy Loreley.

SPEAKER_03 16:39

I do like a lot too that in some of his recap videos he does mention who he put where. Like he'll he'll say, like, I had them in first, I had them in this, and then is like, but that's why we have an odd number of people on the judging panel. Um, so I I do like when he does that, and I do I do hope that he kind of brings up Pittsburgh in comparison and says what one he likes more. Like Amy at Pittsburgh, Amy at Miami, Lorelee at Pittsburgh, Lorelye here. What did he like more? And was it just the judging panel was a few different people, and so that's why the tides turned the following week.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

Yeah, it'd be interesting to know, and it quite probably quite helpful for the girls as well. I mean, the girls probably have the feedback anyway, but it'd be interesting obviously to know that just for going into the Olympia and stuff. So um and yeah, back poses are just insane. Insane.

SPEAKER_03 17:26

So this is where I think um Jessica um was only one point away from Issa on this. Yeah, I think Issa could have been a little tighter in the back. Um and Jessica's just like blasting full, super, super developed upper outer glutes, full projection, like really damn good back pose overall. Like, love the like everything on her back pose here looks really good. The glaze, the tannic, everything's spot on. Um, and I think that's where she gained a lot of points there.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

I think I've seen Jessica in person a few times, and I do think that like, and we'll have a look at I wanna see if I can see that. Who posted the top four Gilko? Um because I feel like Jessica is just a slightly smaller human, so I feel like that's probably what did it in terms of because I know she she needs to grow everywhere, like she needs to grow upper glutes. Like she's definitely developed so much in this last like couple weeks, like since she did Charlotte and stuff like that. But like when you get to the back pose, I personally felt like Issa was fuller in terms of like the upper out, like across here, like the upper glutes across here. She just didn't have as much when you see them next to each other. But I think she's just a slightly smaller human, if that makes sense as to one. Um potentially she got that. So but she doesn't.

SPEAKER_03 19:00

And it's one of those things too where I feel like the obviously the amount of mass and volume you can add to a body part definitely um needs to be kept within your structure. Like she can't just go insane on glutes and be this I don't know how tall she is, but this five, 105-pound girl with just insane overpowering glutes. I think she's very proportionate and balanced right now, but can still use that little touch here and there. Um but I think the cool thing is if um, and I hope like maybe her or her coach does it, um, a side by side of her pro debut four shows ago to now, I feel like she's grown through the prep. I was I was literally just about to.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

I was just about to say that I want to actually look because I do feel like when she came in at Charlotte, which was her first show, she was a lot leaner and still very, very good, but she came in like very, very, very, very dieted. And I feel like she has found her like again, she's done show after show after show, and this is why it's good to do show, show, show because you get that feedback like straight away. So I feel like she's definitely massively improved and filled out her frame after doing multiple shows and stuff like that. Like this, this compared to what we just saw.

SPEAKER_03 20:13

Compared to my music, yeah, night and day.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

It's actually kind of crazy, and that was in April. So, what a month and a half later, she's like filled out a really decent amount. So I think she's improved a very good amount.

SPEAKER_03 20:27

Um, and you don't see this often, and not to take anything away from um like Victoria, for instance, who did who obviously placed 15th at Olympia and looked insane in her debut season two, but we have a lot like the shows that Jessica's doing are deep. Like there's some good competitors in here. I think she went up against Rihanna and one of them, right? Now she's been up against Lorely and Issa and Amy. Um, and she's standing in there and getting points and got 10 points on the board right now. So it's like um she's she's really holding her own in her first season, and you do not see that very often, um, especially on the American side of things, like in the American circuit, because there's so many high-level pros competing, and she's standing in there every show.

SPEAKER_01 21:11

I think Issa, like you said before, I think Issa still just needs a little bit more conditioning in that glutehamp area. Just a tiny, like a tiny bit more, because she has. I personally feel like the shape is there. Like the shape and like density in the lower body, I feel like is 100% there, but it's just not the same as you know, Lorely or Amy or anything like that.

SPEAKER_03 21:32

Um, I think we'll see her get tighter and tighter show by show. It was their first show back on stage in a year and a half, and obviously, one of the things that happened towards the end of before Issa took that extended off season was her glutes weren't like as good as they had been previously. They had gone come down a little bit. She didn't have as much projection in her back pose in her last Olympia appearance, and obviously her glutes are completely like revived now, look the best they ever have. And so I feel like now, show by show, just to get a little bit. Bit tighter each time, and she'll be golden.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Yeah, can you see here? I know it's an angle, but can you see what I'm talking about with the yes? That front's just forwards, it's just forwards, and that circumference, like that's what the judges saw, like here, that part versus that part. Do you know what I mean? And I think if she was to turn, obviously, yes, the camera angles then she's kind of slightly off to the side, but that front pose, I think, only serves you if you are in the middle, like a hundred percent smack bang in the middle.

SPEAKER_03 22:27

Yeah. Um, you know, I had two people tell me at the last two shows I was at. Um, I yelled at um one of the girls on stage to angle, and they angled and it completely like changed where they were placing. Um, but I had someone come up to me and tell me, do you really think the angle matters that much? Like the judges are right there looking at them. I'm like, there's like seven to eight people. I'm looking all the way down the edge here at this person. Like every fucking angle matters.

SPEAKER_01 22:53

Every angle matters. Oh my goodness. Yeah, like every single angle. Like you gotta make sure that you are angled completely and wholeheartedly, exactly where you kind of need to be, you know.

SPEAKER_03 23:04

You have to think about the head judge being dead center. We just looked at only four of them on stage, and Issa needed to angle. That's still the head judge having to turn a little bit to look that way, or turn his head a little bit over because it's not dead center. If you are not splitting center, there is a slight angle to your posing.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

Right, and then oh, I wanted to go through where is where is that top four? There. Um, and then Yulia, she got into that top five, which was good to see. I mean, she always does so well in the Florida shows and stuff, and I do think she compared really well against this lineup, to be fair.

SPEAKER_03 23:44

She did, she's so consistent too. I love Yulia, like she's so cool. I love seeing her at shows, like one of my favorite people, and she's always consistent. Like, it just really matters the lineup that's around her.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

I want to say she's been in the top five or at least the top ten, like consistently for a lot of the shows that she's done. Many, many. Um, so that's really good. And it was really good to see Alison, Alison Testu in the top six as well. I can see her kind of going into more shows and hopefully kind of getting breaking a few more of those top fives to get qualified and obviously winning shows and stuff like that as well to get qualified. I think this is definitely the densest I've seen her glutes, because I think that was always her thing was her glutes needed more density and just overall shape. I would love to see her in a slightly lighter color bikini. That's really, really random, but I would love to see something just more vibrant on her. She used to wear red, and I would love to see her back in red because I feel like that would just bring out just a little bit more like I don't know, vibrantness to her look, you know? Um that's just my opinion. And I'd like to see her hair curled as well. Like more.

SPEAKER_03 24:59

I was gonna say that. That was gonna be my thing. I was gonna say the hair, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

Yeah, just a bit more volume. And again, these are volume to it. These are all personal preferences. Like it's not like, hey, this is gonna help her in terms of changes, stuff like that. I just, I just feel like personal preference, I'd like I'd like to see just a little bit more like vibrantness from her. That's literally it. Um, because I loved her look back in, I want to say it was maybe 2021 or 2020, 2021, maybe. That was like her look when she had like red and curls, and I loved that look. I loved those looks. Um, but yeah, she's definitely grown a lot, and like it her glutes are matching up really nicely to these lineups really, really, really well.

SPEAKER_03 25:39

Yeah, yeah. And she's uh is she on a list this weekend? Because I know she's doing um France. When's France?

SPEAKER_01 25:46

I don't think France is, I think France is next week, maybe, or like in the world.

SPEAKER_03 25:50

Yeah, so she might be off this weekend then.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

So she's not doing this week, which again she's done. Did she do she didn't do New York, she did Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh, Miami. Okay, yeah, it's Pittsburgh and Miami. But before that, she did um another show before in Europe, I'm pretty sure. And she got second.

SPEAKER_03 26:07

She's sworn Pittsburgh was her first show.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

No, no, no, no. No, it was uh yeah, yeah, you're right, you're right. Um and Zophia won that one.

SPEAKER_03 26:15

Yes, yes, this one, Spain.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

So she got second at that. Yeah, so but I I mean her look is it's evolving so much, and she's like she's got such a great like physique, and I think it's just now she's with Cash, just refining every single like show she does is gonna be a really big thing for her. Really big thing. So and then we had is it the Spain show? No, Poland. I haven't seen any photos apart from here. Evie got second. Evie got second, and um, I don't know how to pronounce her name. I'm gonna say Mia. She won, which is incredible because her first show of this year, she did San Diego with me, and she got eighth, I think it was. So let's go all the way back, and then she's only just been getting better as the seasons have gone on. She got third place behind at FIBO, behind Adriana and Zophia, two Olympians, and she's not, and then she obviously did let me just go all the way back. So this was her first show that she did. Here. So this was San Diego. I think that's where she got eighth or so. I think that was. She changed her hair, she changed obviously, she got leaner, she got tighter from this show. Um, and then she ended up getting fifth place at this show, so which is a significant difference. I know obviously photos and iPhone photos are always different, but she looks so much better, even with that makeup change, like the makeup change, the suit change, her tans darker, she obviously looks leaner and stuff as well. Then going on into FIBO, she just has kept evolving and getting better, yeah. Which is really cool too.

SPEAKER_03 28:10

She's gonna get better every time.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

Yeah, and it just goes to show. I think again, people get hung up on like, say, for example, one show placing that they do, and it kind of carries them through the rest of the season. Now she's only just been getting better, and now she won a show and in in a full deep lineup with Olympians as well. Like Evie, a huge Olympian, like top, she got seventh at the Olympia last year, and she beat her. So, because she she overall looked better on that day. So it is really cool to see how people can progress and throughout their season versus just you know, oh okay, I've got you know, I got eighth place, meaning I shouldn't do any more shows and go into improvement season. Sometimes it is that she just keep going back to the drawing board, keep showing up.

SPEAKER_03 28:58

Yeah, so definitely she looks awesome.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

I don't know, I don't know. Oh, I should have gone through that lineup because that was this weekend, the same weekend as my Emmy as well. So you had um you had first place Mia, then you had second Evie. Oh, they've done the they've done the placings wrong here because that's not correct. Victoria looks like she was that's Victoria. That looked like she was either fourth or fifth.

SPEAKER_03 29:30

I don't know why I thought Anna was in this show.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

She was in the show.

SPEAKER_03 29:34

Oh, was she?

SPEAKER_01 29:35

She was so I don't think she was in the top. Um I don't know where the the thingy is, but she was here. She's here.

SPEAKER_03 29:47

Yeah, she was in it. Holy shit. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

Yeah. So I'm not too sure. And then same with Alessia was in this show. Um I have uh Lisa was in the show.

SPEAKER_03 29:58

There were a lot of Olympians not in the top five. Lisa Alessia, Anna, damn.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

Yeah, so that's what I mean. Like it bikini is evolving and is is different, and I do think that it's easy to slip under the radar a little bit without even meaning to. So it is like you gotta keep you gotta keep fighting, and it is hard. It is tough, it is very, very tough.

SPEAKER_03 30:19

So um only gonna get tougher through the summer, too. There's gonna be a lot, like everyone vying for their points and coming for the wins. It's gonna get more and more packed, regardless of seeing the small shows this upcoming weekend, but there's still dense shows, like the the competitors in Optimum and Legion this upcoming weekend are good. It's gonna be good shows.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

Yeah, it's gonna be cool. So, and then we did have um another show. We had um the Asia Asia Grand Prix as well.

SPEAKER_03 30:50

So and these girls wasn't that her wasn't that her um second win. I could have sworn, right? Yeah, I thought it was. I could have even that she got a qualification.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

And then she must be.

SPEAKER_02 31:41

What was her name? Is this her?

SPEAKER_03 31:44

Oh, right there. The uh no the green one. Green.

SPEAKER_01 31:47

Oh, green, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, perfect. Amazing, another qualified.

SPEAKER_03 31:53

Awesome. Awesome, awesome. That's the other thing that's gonna be good. That's what's gonna happen in August, is there's gonna be people that are like 26th through 30th that are just like maybe they're done and hoping to see what happens, or maybe they're still going for points, but you're gonna be kind of like hoping that someone gets their second win so that your name could get bumped up into the list. Like it's gonna, it's gonna be a numbers game, it's gonna be really cool to see come August.

SPEAKER_01 32:20

She had a really nice shape. I want to go back to her front pose. I really like her shape here, like that really nice taper. Really nice taper. I mean, this is quite a muscular um show as well. You've got Nikita here as well. Yeah, she's gotten third quite a few times this year. And then back pose. I think you can see because I was gonna say the front, all the front poses look very comparable, like they all have that really nice S-curve shape, and their physiques almost like look very, very similar. And I think what's probably drawn them apart is the back poses for sure. Yeah, yeah. So you can see that she's definitely got like a really nice amount of density, really nice long tie-ins as well. Um and yeah, you can just see that really nice density from the back. So I don't know what's about the scorecards. Three, six, nine, twelve. Yeah. Okay, cool. Nice. Well, massive congrats to everyone that did the Asia Grand Prix.

SPEAKER_03 33:22

So now we have first of all, just click that fit model list first. We can't go through all of this, but holy shit, guys.

SPEAKER_01 33:30

Oh my god, yeah. Honestly, insane. Like overthrowing bikini. It's crazy. It and I we said this from the beginning. We knew it would be more popular.

SPEAKER_03 33:44

We knew it was gonna be more popular than and uh name number one on the list, Rhoda coming over to Fit Model. I am. I'm actually shocked that John missed that in the caption.

SPEAKER_04 33:55

I know, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:56

So, Rhoda, for all you guys that don't know, she won the Arnold Amateur three years ago. Um, has been a very consistent bikini pro, always placing like first, second callouts, always, always right around that top 10. And we haven't seen her for the last year, roughly, nine months, roughly. Um, and she showed up on this list for fit model. So I texted her so fast, I was like, excuse me.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

Yeah, I know. So this was this was her as bikini, and she had a decent amount of development, you know, like a very good amount of development. But I think the hard part is like she still needed more, and it's a case of like I don't know obviously. Yeah, I don't know her own journey and stuff like that any mate moving forwards, but maybe that was something that she wasn't willing to risk anymore in terms of I say risk, but do anymore in terms of putting on the muscle and you know, pushing that hard to kind of go into that realms of bikini, like it's hard to do that, it really is hard to do that. So now I mean she looks, I don't think there's any because when she posted this photo, I thought, you know, her upper body's a little a little smaller than usual. Um, but now I know why. Now I know why, or now we know why. So um I'd love to see her in that fit model pose. I want to see what that foot model pose looks like so badly. Because I think I think she's gonna really nail it because she's got such a tiny waist as well. Yes. Um, it'll be interesting. I'm excited to see her. Um, and then we've got oh my god, we've got so many.

SPEAKER_03 35:31

Um Tara, Tara's in there again. She switched her front pose to the other side now, and it looks a lot better. I like it.

SPEAKER_01 35:37

Okay, nice. We've got Brooklyn as well. Yep, which is cool to see. We've got Emma, who has been has she placed has she placed in the top five?

SPEAKER_03 35:48

She's been very consistent. I don't think she's been top five. She's been very consistent in that in the top ten, which is saying something for fit model when you've got 40 girls in like every show.

SPEAKER_01 35:57

Yeah, and then you've got Lauren Lovardo, who she just placed fourth or fifth.

SPEAKER_04 36:04

Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_01 36:05

At a show at um one of the the New York Pro. I can't remember which one it was. And then you've got I'm gonna miss so many names.

SPEAKER_03 36:14

I know we're going fast. Carla. Carla. Oh, yes, Carla. Second, second, third, fourth.

SPEAKER_01 36:21

She just got second at Pittsburgh. So this is gonna be really Oh, Sean Carla. Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_03 36:31

I don't know why I didn't see her name, but is this her fit model debut? I think so. She hasn't come out for a show yet. Yeah, awesome. Another bikini switching over to fit model, that's cool to see.

SPEAKER_01 36:41

Yeah, damn.

SPEAKER_03 36:42

Do you have any b uh fit model updates?

SPEAKER_01 36:44

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_03 36:46

Oh, uh no. That's a posing client, it looks like.

SPEAKER_01 36:48

There I am. No. There's you.

SPEAKER_03 36:51

Yeah, no. Okay, be good to see her up there too. Always good to see bikini switching over to fit model. I just like to do it. I really like see the change in physique. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

I like the difference. I like it, I like it a lot. So, and then we have Optimum Classic. This is a is a small lineup, but a dense lineup.

SPEAKER_03 37:10

Small, but like this is good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:13

Yeah, you've got Yulia.

SPEAKER_03 37:15

You got Yulia, like missed consistency right there with Yulia. You got Nivea, who I think has a win already, or close, close to how she's got I know she has a second. Okay, okay. And then she also got second um to Alice at Southern Muscle. Yes. So she's got a couple seconds already.

SPEAKER_01 37:34

She's got a couple points already.

SPEAKER_03 37:36

Yeah. And then you've got to Britney Gillespie starting her season.

SPEAKER_01 37:41

Yeah. And then you've got Issa, which I didn't, I didn't know Issa was gonna do this show. I thought she was doing Legions.

SPEAKER_03 37:48

So she's doing a few. Um Rachel Lenaris has gotten top five twice in the last couple shows as well.

SPEAKER_01 37:55

Yeah, and then you've got oh yeah, she has.

SPEAKER_03 37:58

Yeah, Rachel's really good.

SPEAKER_01 38:01

And then you've got Jane, who she she, I want to say she has placed a few times in a previous year, potentially, if I'm not mistaken, or she's gotten top ten for sure. Um, and then you've got Brianna Wilson, who she's coming back, and then you've got Jody as well. So, like, there's so many, like it's a small list, yes, but like there's so many competitive physiques on this line. Yeah. So like I'm excited to see, because they're also all very different. So I'm interested to kind of see, okay, who's gonna be standing next to Issa? Is someone gonna beat Issa? Like, obviously, yes, as you look at this list, you go, yeah, Issa's probably the front runner, but also equally, it can be anyone's day. People have beaten Issa before. Like, Jessica was only one point behind Issa. Like, there's there's things that can be done, you know? So I do think this is gonna be a super exciting show. Like, even though it's small, it's gonna be exciting. And then and then Legions is actually even smaller, which I was quite shocked at.

SPEAKER_03 39:07

Yeah, I was too. Very, I was very shocked.

SPEAKER_01 39:09

It's a very popular show, usually a very, very popular show.

SPEAKER_03 39:13

But regardless, but I was gonna say, regardless, as far as like strategy goes, not that it was anyone's strategy to have a small show, but you're gonna get a lot of points on the board for some people here. Maya and Savannah and Reina, like it's gonna be good for them.

SPEAKER_01 39:26

So do you think question, do you think people thought Issa was doing legions, so they didn't do legions and she actually did Optimum? Yes. Yeah, potentially, and also I to put that note obviously to a side as well. I also think a lot of people, this is off the back end of a back-to-back three-week, like the three big big shows that everyone wanted to do was Pittsburgh, New York, Miami. So I think this week is people are probably just resting and then going again for because isn't Toronto soon?

SPEAKER_03 40:02

Toronto's in three weeks, but it's also the same day as Mile High, which is uh Mile High historically, the last four years in a row is an Ashley Kay show that just like with Vancouver, everyone knows Ashley always does it and they usually avoid it, and so the other show ends up more packed. I'm gonna give my two cents here. Fucking push these girls. Yeah. Like if Issa's doing a show, put your name in the hat. If you think Ashley Kay is doing, um, is doing mile high, get your name in there. Go do it. Like, Savannah, if you are still going, with I think she's gonna keep going after the show, like go do mile high, man. Like, yeah, get up there. There's no reason that like let's say you don't beat her and you get second, four points on the board. But best case scenario, you got a shot at beating her. Like, and I don't know that Ashley's doing it, it's just historically that is what she starts her season with.

SPEAKER_01 40:51

So yeah, because that that's and I I liked it, and that's why I wanted to ask or have that in there and say, like, do you think people had, you know, there's two back-to-back shows, and people know Issa is competing. I know she hasn't announced kind of what show she was doing, she only said Miami, and that I think that was kind of it. So they think, okay, they look at things strategically. Okay, she's doing Miami, she's coming, she's in the US. What other shows she's doing? Okay, she's probably doing Legion, so I'm not gonna do that show. That's kind of how sometimes those conversations go. But I do think that that shouldn't be the case. Go and enter the show, like you said, go and enter the show, push these girls and like get the feedback in front of the best of the best. Like, period. Yeah, um, yeah. If you think they're doing it.

SPEAKER_03 41:33

On top of that, like take uh like use Savannah as an example. If Savannah goes to mile high and let's say it's her and Ashley one and two, like one, you get your points, but two, you just got compared against like one of the greatest of all time, like a top multi-time Miss Olympia, consistent top five in the Olympia, and you're getting compared next to her with a good panel of judges. Like, that's a win-win right there. Points plus that comparison is huge. So, like, don't don't be afraid, guys, if you're thinking like, and not I'm saying afraid, but obviously there's strategy involved. But regardless, like honestly, strategy would be chase down the big names because other people are gonna think, oh, this I don't want to do that show if she's doing it. Okay, let's go do it. And maybe six people show up. Guess what? I just got points automatically. Like, that should be the real strategy.

SPEAKER_01 42:20

So very true. Also, strategy-wise, like, if you think about it, obviously, yes, it also depends because I know, I know competitions are money and all that type of thing, but if you're if you get second to an Issa or be an ESA, how like that's almost like better taking that risk and doing that versus not and potentially going to another show that you might that you might think is smaller, but actually there is more people there because they thought the exact same. Do you know what I mean? So I do think that, and also equally, you could get better feedback being next to someone like Isa because you're compared against someone that has been at the top of the top of the levels and has that, you know, top level physique. Not saying that not everyone else does, but you can get those that feedback a lot more um through being next to someone like that, you know?

SPEAKER_03 43:13

Yeah. So I remember if I think it was two years ago, three years ago, when I met Kate and Frank for the first time. Um, it was at the class show, and Kate came over to America, I think for her first pro shows in America, went and got third or fourth at that class show. And then I was talking to her husband who coaches her, and I was like, What are your guys' plans coming up? And um, he told me, and I was like, Oh yeah, I think Ashley just announced that she's doing um the Dallas show too. And he was like, Good, more competition. We're not shying away from that. And then guess what? She was she went and she went beater, and that's where she put her name on. Like, that's where Kate really made a name for herself. And I was like, I that was really cool to hear because typically, especially three years ago, that's when people would shy away from like, oh, Ashley's doing the show. Like, that's on lock right there. There weren't points around. So in that regard, it wasn't. Would be considered kind of a waste in a sense. Now that there's points, it's not a waste. But regardless, I thought that was a really cool mindset to have. Like, hey, yeah, we're over here. We're planning on doing these shows. Whoever shows up, we're there to try to beat them.

SPEAKER_01 44:12

So exactly. And that's how it should be. And I think, you know, these there's two, obviously, even John's put it here. I think it's gonna be a battle. Oh, well, uh two contenders that stand out anyway. Again, it's anyone's game, but the ones that stand out for me are Rainer and Savannah, obviously. Yeah. So it'll be really interesting to see those two go back to back because Savannah's improved a lot over the last like even like five weeks since War Sarch. And you know, she could be pushing any of these girls. And even the same with Rainer, you know. I don't know what Rainer looks like obviously now, but vice versa, both of them could be pushing each other, which is be very exciting to see. So and then I think that's it for shows this weekend.

SPEAKER_03 44:58

That's what we got for the weekend.

SPEAKER_01 45:00

There's only two. There's only two, and then a huge model show.

SPEAKER_03 45:05

Where is the southern USA? Is that a Georgia show? I don't know why I don't know where that show is at, but Shannon show, so it's somewhere in that like south southeast region.

SPEAKER_01 45:19

Southeast? I have no clue.

SPEAKER_03 45:24

I don't know where that's at. Yeah, I'm asking the non-American. Yeah, and I was like, I don't know. I don't know where that is.

SPEAKER_01 45:31

You're asking the wrong person.

SPEAKER_03 45:33

I remember when you were I remember when you were staying here um for the week and you were like, where is Idaho? Like, where am I right now on the map?

SPEAKER_01 45:40

I don't know where the fuck I am. Most of the time, in in just in general, I'm like, where am I placed in the map? Actually, I have no clue. So funny. Not a clue. Like, it's the same when I went to Toronto, everyone was like, I was like, how far is Vancouver? And they're like, it's fucking ages away. I'm like, oh. I was like, is it not that far then? Yeah, it's fucking ages away. I was like, oh, okay, never mind. So but okay, any questions? Have we got any questions? Let me have a look as well.

SPEAKER_03 46:06

Yeah, look and see that we answer the main one I had on here. Oh, I'm no, I'm not humming again, not doing that for our editor. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 46:16

If anyone's seen that reel, I'm so sorry. But my my That was funny. She killed that reel.

SPEAKER_03 46:25

I got someone that asked uh tips on the best way to grow social media. Uh, we'll have Kenzie on next week, guys.

SPEAKER_01 46:31

And oh my god, yeah. I mean, honestly, like tips from me, quite honestly, just be your authentic self and your people will find you, honestly. Because like there's only so much you can do. Like, you yeah, you can do trends and this and that and all that type of thing, but then ultimately people will see through you and you're just like everyone else. So, like, if you just show up yourself, the people that also attract to you will find you as well, you know?

SPEAKER_03 46:59

Yes, so and I, yeah, taking that a step further, that goes into coaching, training, posing coaching. Like, if you're trying to grow your social media as well as grow a business, like the number one thing that matters is your actual knowledge on the topic, your actual portfolio and your results that you're getting. Obviously, being yourself, having that personality that can be out there. But um, if you're like Phoebe just said, if you're hopping on these trends where people are doing like these um, these like exercise tier list from A to D, and like all these random things that pop up, there and I'm not not pointing to anyone specifically here. I'm really not, but there's a reason that the people doing those videos have the fucking time to do those videos. Like a lot of a lot of people that are growing their social media, growing their business are out there. They are at the shows, they are front row, whether it be they got one client in the show or 10 clients in the show, they're putting themselves out there to not only be there for their clients, but to continue educating themselves on criteria to be backstage and get that judging feedback with their athlete, whether it be amateur or a pro, they're out there doing this stuff. They're consistent with trying to update or keep up with education and be at shows and all the above, right? And so, not that I'm hating on people that do these trends, but I just it's in my fucking face all the time. Every time I open Instagram, a tier list for these PEDs, a tier list for these exercises, what's most important out of these supplements? And I'm like, there's a fucking like you guys must have one client on your roster because how do you have time for this shit? Yeah. So that's where my mind goes when I see that.

SPEAKER_01 48:34

I understand. So, from a business point of view, to grow your business, you need to show that you are educational. So I understand those videos, and I get like putting out content that people need to learn from and showing your knowledge off. Because ease, you know, for me and you, we've built up our reputation where yes, we can do those videos, but we don't really typically need to do those videos because we have the kind of you know status behind us or like knowledge behind us already from clientele that we have, right? So people trying to grow their roster, I understand those videos are needed. Those videos are needed to kind of show new faces, their followers, hey, this is what I do, and I'm educational, you know, learn from me, work with me, that type of thing. I get that. But I think if you're only just doing that to try and be like everyone else or trying to do XYZ other things, then it's not going to work.

SPEAKER_03 49:26

I personally feel like that's my point is the the sake of doing it just because it's a trend. Yeah. It's like it's it's trending, so let me hop on it and then let's go into overkill and just consistently make content on it. It's like you can, to me, take like little bits and pieces of what you see is blowing up, like what are topics people really like to talk about and make your own video on it. Like, do what um one of my I don't want to call him a mentor, but I've read a million things he's put out is um hypertrophy coach. And if you guys look him up on Instagram, he's amazing, but he literally has like a whiteboard behind him, and he will sit there and draw on the board, and that's how he educates through his page. Um it's Joe Bennett, and he's old, I don't want to call him old, but old school. Like he was much bigger in the scene. Yeah, he was much bigger in the scene about 10 years ago, still works with a good amount of people, but he's much more on the educational side of things now. And he literally has like a smart board behind him when he does his videos and like will literally draw anatomy charts and draw lines and like draw moment arms, like all these things that um you can like hear people talk about, or they like have these cool graphics that pop up on the screen. He's actually educating in like a very classroom style way, but keeps it entertaining, and it's different than just hopping on all these fucking trends that you see. So those are the types of things that I feel like really stand out. And so if you're listening to this, trying to grow your social media, find out, like look at these trends and what people are engaging with that they find popular and maybe put your own twist on it. Don't just do what everyone else is doing.

SPEAKER_01 50:58

Yeah, I I mean, also it's hard as well because trends are trending for a reason. So it's like cool, everyone's gonna jump on it. So, like that makes sense. So, but it also depends like what you're growing your social media for. Are you growing it for wanting to be recognized for brands? Are you growing it because you want more clients? Like it depends, it depends vastly on like why you're growing on social media.

SPEAKER_03 51:20

Um, yeah, no very true.

SPEAKER_01 51:21

If you just want to literally grow pick grow to get followers and see, like have new faces and stuff like that, do whatever the do do whatever you want, you know?

SPEAKER_03 51:29

Yeah, do whatever you want. It's funny. I was just I was just talking to Kerrigan about this a few days ago. We um I heard her listening to one of Kenzie's story rants that she does like every day when she wakes up. And Kerrigan was like, I love this girl. And I'm like, and she's like, How does she always have a topic to talk about? I'm like, yeah, it's crazy. And that's that's a fucking skill. Like to constantly be able to have a topic that is not only like like I don't want to say trending, but is engaging. Like she can talk about any yes, she can talk about any topic out there, and whether you agree or not, you're listening. Like that's what matters at the end of the day, right?

SPEAKER_01 52:07

And I'm like, because she can't as soon as she's like shouting at me, I'm like, okay, this girl's got something to say. Let me let me listen. Like, it's cool. Um, okay, I have got one question because I was like that's what I was scrolling for because I was like, I did see someone ask something. Um, someone said on one of our reels, can you guys speak about how one builds density without increasing size? Yeah, I mean, so size, because remember what the sorry to literally, but what we mentioned on that reel was remember, I was saying about how I don't need more size, but I need more density with the size that I have. So, like, you know, specifically for my glutes, my glutes, and I said this to so many people, and they're like, What the fuck? And I'm like, wait, and I have to explain the reasoning. Because I'm like, I was like, yeah, I need more density. And they were like, Are you joking? And I was like, because we're sacrificing conditioning over being tall. So that's what that question means.

SPEAKER_03 53:04

So to go into detail about that specific topic as well, is let's elaborate more on what it meant for you. Is that there is a fine line of conditioning and density, where if you don't have enough density, you're not gonna make up for it with more conditioning because there's nothing that's gonna be pushing density-wise, using the glutes, for example, against the skin. If you don't have the density, you can't make up for it. If you try to fill out, what are you filling out? That's where you start to blur lines because you don't actually have that um amount of density where you can, whether it be carbs, fats, pumping up backstage, whatever the fuck it may be that you're trying to get fuller with, you're not able to because you don't have the actual muscle there to fill out. So that's where that like fine line of conditioning and density is, and where the perfect mesh of those, obviously in bikini, is to have the right criteria of conditioning, you need the density that is allowing you to get that conditioning, or else you're going to blur the lines and spill over, or you're not gonna have the muscle that's able to pop. And so, in terms of what you're talking about, I'm still trying like the size and density are kind of one in the same in a sense, but I feel like the word size is more to me, size just means like structure. It means like what when we're putting on, go ahead, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 54:20

So I think well size why she's meaning, I think is meaning by like how much bigger, like how much bigger the surface area is. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So like size for me, for example, my glutes are I can't even remember the last time I measured them, like 30 let's say like 38 inches. I think it's like 36 or something like that. So size-wise, I don't need to get to like 38 because they already have good projection, they have good size, but what I have like already needs to be denser, more filled out, but not bigger. That's what that's what they're asking for. Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 54:54

So, right in the terms of what I just said then with conditioning and density is the the main thing is packing on the density, meaning Phoebe doesn't necessarily need more glute size. She's not looking to have like, I don't need more upper outer glute, I don't need more tie-in, I just need more density so that when I hit my back pose, her coach is able to, whether it be through peak week or however you guys do your things leading into the show, you have that right amount of conditioning where Jamie can then look at your back pose and go, okay, we've achieved the right low the conditioning that we want. And now that your glutes have added X amount of density to it, we know that we're able to push a little bit more in terms of fullness. And it's in the word density there and fullness are kind of, I don't want to say one and the same, but they correlate to each other. Because when you have the amount of density, you're able to push fullness and it not affect the blur of conditioning. You're able to hold that conditioning or push that conditioning a little bit further so that you're then able to fill out more because you actually have glute density that you're filling out versus not having enough density in whatever body part it may be, not having enough density in your glutes to where when you do start to push food or you do start to fill out, now the lines start to get blurred. And when I say lines to everyone listening, I'm talking like the little bit of etched-out tie-ins, the hamstring lines that they want to see for bikini, um, the little caved upper outer glute that where you see that pop, um, and that starts to get blurred and maybe look a little watery, maybe look a little bit washed out because you don't have the actual density that is uptaking that intake that you have going into the show.

SPEAKER_01 56:31

So that's the question, yeah, and then the question was how do we do that? So I personally feel like it's about specific training, like specific trainings. So what we've done now is um me and me, Allison, and Jamie have all correlated and come together and said, these are the specific exercises I want you to work on, change, improve, send videos, send feedback, making sure that it's 1000% where it needs to be. And I feel like that is how you're going to create density. It's gonna be a time thing as well. Because I do think people think, okay, density can be achieved like really quick. But I think now that I have this time, like 18 weeks until the Olympia, I probably can get a little denser. We're probably gonna still need more density by the end of it because we're probably gonna start dieting again 10 weeks out, eight weeks out, maybe. So we're still gonna need more time, of course, because we only got eight weeks to kind of have a little bit of time off. But um, I think if you have a full-on off season, being very, very specific with your exercise selection and being very, very specific with like recovery is super, super important. Um so I think those are the main that I think anyway, that's gonna be the way main way to because I do think yes, progressive overload is definitely needed, but uh it's about connection as well and the tension and the time of the tension and the specific exercises. For example, like we have um like for example, kickbacks. I don't know, kickbacks. You can do a lot with kickbacks, but there's only so much you can do in terms of weight-wise. But that's a really good exercise to be able to really work that specific area. So doing it completely wholeheartedly and being intentional with training and being proper with each exercise is gonna be so much better than just doing, okay, let's just do the heaviest kickbacks I can do or the heaviest hip thrusts I can do, being really, really intentional. Like hip thrusts for me, obviously, you know, as well, my adductors are always a bitch on those things.

SPEAKER_04 58:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:33

So we are really, really focusing on trying to make sure that no adductor is like engaged and it's all glute and like making sure, okay, let's strip down the weight completely then and build it up and make sure that it is just my glutes.

SPEAKER_03 58:48

Yeah. A good, a good example for everyone listening to what Phoebe is saying about it's not just weight. So take kickbacks, for example. Perfect example. Um, I actually had this conversation with Hunter at the um at Pittsburgh about lateral raises. There comes a point where progress, so progressive overload is a let's start with that vocabulary. Progressive overload is a very wide range of things. A lot of people think about it as weight and reps. Everything that creates more tension is a form of progressive overload. And the greatest form of progressive overload, like you just said you're doing with Allison, is video feedback. The greatest form of progressive overload is um is form execution. The I can take someone that is has tremendous form and is doing half the amount of weight, and they are likely creating more stimulus and tension on the muscle itself than the person is just slinging weight around. And so 100% form execution is the number one thing that needs to be nailed down. Now, we go outside of that, and like the broad picture progressive overload is literally everything to do with what we are doing to make this lift harder on ourselves. That's all it is. Are you adding five pounds? Are you adding one more rep? Are you turning it into a drop set? Are you turning it into a pause rep set? Like every single thing that creates more stimulus is a form of progressive overload. Um, and so something like kickbacks, for example, is there comes a point where you literally can't do more weight, right? Like the conversation I had with Hunter to put this in perspective is he's been doing 50-pound dumbbell lateral raises for the last five years. Like, you eventually you can't progress on the weight you're doing. No one's gonna, if like progressive overload just spent weight and reps, like these open bodybuilders would have 150-pound dumbbells in each hand doing a hundred reps, but that's not how like it works. Like, that's just literally not how physics works. You don't grow like that. And so there comes a point where how do we create more stimulus and more tension on the muscle itself? And using something like kickbacks, for example, let's say that we've found our good working weight, like you're doing 90 pounds on the cable machine and you're in that like 10 to 15 rep range. You don't really want to go too much more than that because it's just taxing on the CNS. You feel like you're doing fucking cardio at that point, um, and you don't want to lower the reps too much and just try to make up for it with weight because now we're just pulling through um like our hamstrings, or we're doing these centric loaded kickback and it's all like pushing with the quad on the way down. So, how to create how do we create more tension on the muscle and progressively overload is foot positioning. As you're driving back through it, let's turn the toe out a little bit and get a little bit more tension focused on a specific part of the glute. Or depending on what you want to work on, you can work more in the stretch position and the lengthened position. So as the as the leg is coming back forward, there's ways to um do like an eccentric loaded kickback, bring the cable um pulley up two or three notches so that not only do you have that tension driving on the way back where you're creating that uh contracted position tension, but as you go back through the eccentric, now you're getting that stretch on the way up that's getting that like tie-in area, that focused area. And then to take it a step further, let's hold that position for one second before we drive back down and create that stretch tension hypertrophy. And so there's so many different things you can throw into the mix, and these are the things that matter at someone like Phoebe's level. Um, if I'm taking like a true novice person, and I'm like, all right, here's your training program. Progressive overload matters a lot more for them in the sense of let's find our baseline of what we're working with. Whereas in Phoebe's position, it's we know what works. We know that if I add too much weight on a hip thrust, my adductors take over. We know that if I add too much weight on um a uh kickback, all I feel is my stabilizing leg, like just trying to really pull this weight down. And so, how can we create more tension? And so those are your examples right there on something like a kickback. So it's not progressive overload for everyone listening. Yes, reps and weight are a big factor there, but there comes to a certain point where there is a million other things added into play. Yes, Queen. That's like a that's like a three-minute clip rant right there. Sorry, guys.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:01

Yes, go. Yes, go ahead. I was dying.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:04

The amount of times that your comment got forwarded to me the other day when you were like, tell them, girl. I was like, God damn it, Phoebe. Because every time I you can like hold your finger down on a comment and send it to people, people were sending me that dying laughing. Yeah, I didn't know you were hilarious. Yeah, it was hilarious.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:22

It's so funny. Because every time I'll sometimes just chat and I'll just be like, oh my god, yes, girl. And I'm like, tell him some cramps.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:28

Oh god, fuck me.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:34

Oh yeah, that's anyway. To end it behind.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:40

Yeah, let's end it there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:43

So, but thank you guys for watching. Please send over some more questions because I do feel like I really like making like doing the the feedback and all that type of thing. Looking over the shows is always fun, but it's always really nice to get your guys' like input and knowing, okay, cool, this is what you want to hear from us, you know? So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:02

Yes, for sure. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:05

He's like, I'm dead. So, but thank you guys so much for watching. Please make sure you like, subscribe. Oh, and we're now we've now got a thousand subscribers. Giveaway soon. Yeah, we need to talk about the giveaway.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:17

But you guys blew that up after that last episode. We needed one subscriber for a thousand, and we got like 40, like in the last week. So I was like, oh shit.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:25

Thanks for not subscribing before. So we're glad that we reminded you. So at least now we're like, okay, make sure you're subscribed, guys. Because each time we do like a milestone, I feel like every time we get like 500 or a thousand subscribers, I want to do like a giveaway. So for sure. It'd be cool. So right now, we'll definitely do one for this.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:44

So we'll we'll brainstorm on it, let you guys know next time what it is.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:47

Yeah, we'll see you guys in the next one. Thank you for watching.

unknown 1:04:50

Thank you.