Notes from a Small (Cold, Dark, Miserable) Island

14: Education, Education, Education ft. Emily Gann

• Day of Reckoning Media • Season 1 • Episode 14

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Fresh off our half‑term adventures, what better moment to dive into the delightful strangeness that is the British education system.

Class might be out for summer back in the homeland, but here in London pupils will still be slogging away for weeks - dreaming of undercooked potatoes on pebbly beaches and EasyJet flights packed tighter than a Year 9 lunch queue headed to destinations with visible sunlight.  

This week we’re joined by Emily Gann, an American teacher in British schools who helpfully explains what the acronym GCSE means. 

Should A‑level results day be a national holiday, what is the right reaction when a small child asks for a "rubber", and why is everybody so obsessed with the details of school uniforms?

It turns out the old saying is true: you really do learn something new every day.

 

SPEAKER_00

Hello and welcome to Notes from a Small, cold, dark, miserable island. If you're anglophilic or anglo-curious, we're here to teach you all about your new homeland. I'm Mike.

SPEAKER_02

I am Matt, and we are back off half-term. Half term, yes. What'd you do for your half-term? Not a whole lot. Uh Granny uh in in her village out in the Shires, out in the Shires outside of Cambridge, had an open garden, which is a thing that happens all over England. Brings all the hobbits to the yard. And we did serve milkshakes, uh, as a matter of fact. So Granny has an open garden. It's a charity walk. Uh, it happens all over England. I should have looked up the name of the association that sponsors it, but like your community, people with gardens that they're proud of can open them up, and then you can walk through and you pay a donation and you chat with your neighbors and you see their gardens and you say, What kind of a soil is this? Uh and then your you know, your kids and your in-laws sandy soil. What kind of soil was it? I was asked this and I was like, bruh, I can I cannot help. I would love that. Well, yeah. So my daughter uh, you know, basically set up a lemonade stand, but it was a bougie lemonade stand with like uh elderflower cordials and raspberry rhubarb core cordials, and I and I taught her and her little four-year-old cousin like American style customer service, like how can I help you today and have a nice day. And anyway, so that was kind of my you know, keeping keeping the kids from uh running and screaming during the open garden. Uh and so yeah, that was that was my half term.

SPEAKER_00

I climbed the UK's biggest mountain with my family. No worries, just I just climb in the biggest. But it's it's like the 2000th largest mountain in the world. It's not a it's not a very large mountain. Were you Hugh Grant, the Englishman who went up a hill? We had a guide. Um I would this has been something that's I wanted to do for a while, so I wanted to do it properly. And so I like enlisted a guide. Shout out to Gary from Atlas Mountaineering.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

He uh did not pay me to say this, but Gary was a um uh a stout uh vegan uh Scottish dude.

SPEAKER_02

Uh he's a stout vegan, or he is stout and also a vegan.

SPEAKER_00

Stout and also a vegan. Uh he was very uh uh cheery and and uh fenn diagram there, stout vegan rattled away as we sort of you know was hiked up. It took us like eight hours to do that. Was that motivational, or was it like a well for my other half? It was definitely motivational. She wanted to prattle around. I just wanted to like stomp up with my boots and stuff, you know what I mean? So yeah, that was fun. That was fun. We we made it we made it back up and back down again.

SPEAKER_02

Congratulations. Another like nature-y, you know, not too commercial holiday break for you.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think so. We took the trains, it's you know, um although on the train back down, you would have enjoyed this because there was all these like Scottish people getting absolutely wasted on the train, uh returning back to Glasgow uh a couple of days after we we hiked the mountain. Um they um uh it was 9 30 in the morning and everybody had a bottle of wine. There was like Hindus and like uh some sort of like 50th birthday, and then like just these kids who are gonna go to a rave and just like living it up. So just all these pockets of little subcultures. Two hours of just drunken Scottish people. Congratulations. Wow. Um, so yeah, that sort of broke the nature spell a little bit.

SPEAKER_02

The other thing that I did uh a great day out that I did on uh my my kids' half term was uh was uh I went to Cedars Park. Cedars Park. Cedars Park. Cedar Point. Not Cedar Point, the amazement park in Sandusky, Ohio. I love that amazement park. Many an hour there uh in my childhood. Uh no, I went to Cedars Park for uh my dear friend Emily's daughter's birthday party. And that brings us to our guest sitting to my left. Hi, Emily Gann.

SPEAKER_03

Hello. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Uh so it was it was uh your daughter's birthday party, and we came out to Cedars Park, which is a fantastic park. This is this is one of the things when I talk about like, ah, I want to try to like England this year. Uh Mike, was the name of the park that we went to when we met up last month? Um Regions Park. Oh, Regions. Regions Park. Regions Park, yeah. Yeah. And then Cedars Park. So, you know, the parks of London is what I'm endorsing right now. Cedars Park in what what region, South?

SPEAKER_03

So it's in it's in Broxbourne, like Chesant area, basically. But it was originally um uh the private home of I think one of the Catherine, one of the latter would have been Catherine Parr, I believe. Um it was originally her home given to her by Henry V. So eighth, sorry, not fifth. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Uh one of the six, if you one of the six.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Fifth of the eighth. Fifth of the eighth, yes. Fifth of the eighth. One of the ones that wasn't uh survived. She survived last one. So yeah. Okay. It's a beautiful part. It's a beautiful part. Everybody should go there.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And uh your daughter turned five, six, six.

SPEAKER_03

A big old, big six six going on, sixteen.

SPEAKER_02

They are um and just one of the like uh yeah, it was a terrific party. My daughter had a had a great time. Um and we particularly enjoyed Pass the Parcel, which is a British birthday party tradition. Uh in Australia, it has been immortalized uh in an episode of Bluey, the uh Lucky's Dad's Rules. So basically, Mike, you're giving us a quizzical look. Is Pass the Parcel not a part of the parcel is?

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Um I'm I'm wondering why it's it's this particular version was so controversial. It looks like the looks like this.

SPEAKER_02

Emily's first past the parcel preparation.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So many poppin' peas.

SPEAKER_03

So the past the parcel preparation. I needed to have rehearsed this a little bit more. Um so the night before, I realized I had never prepared a past the parcel. See how many peas I can get involved here. And um possibly. Yeah. And I I I even had to Google it because I was like, I don't actually know how to do this. Um and my husband had said, you know, we either do Lucky's Dad's rule, which is there's one gift.

SPEAKER_02

One big, oh, that's awesome at the end.

SPEAKER_03

At the end. Or there's supposed to be a gift at every layer. Yeah. And my like a Tootsie Rule. So that everybody's no hard feelings, all the kids get something. And um my daughter was involved in this and she said, No, mommy, everybody needs something. So we had gone, you know, to a pound land and we'd found little things that you know she thought all of her friends would like that were gonna be there. She was really insistent that everybody gets something so that they could all then play with it. Right. And I was like, it's your birthday, sure.

SPEAKER_02

Aaron Ross Powell So not just like a like we have done with my daughter, like uh a sticker or a tattoo or a little bit of candy and she picked out like coloring books, and right.

SPEAKER_03

That's later on in life, apparently. Uh so she she picked out things like bubble wands and coloring books and slime, things that are very awkward to wrap. And I suddenly realized like I had Christmas paper and some birthday paper, but then I just ran out of paper. And um, because there were supposed to be 14 kids at this party. So this past the parcel turned into like a 14-layer past the parcel. But it was gigantic. I mean, it was it was huge and it was heavy. Like this is Unpassable. Unpassable. It literally was unpassable. And then because I ran out of all the paper, the only thing I had left was tissue paper, which is not a good pass the parcel thing.

SPEAKER_02

All of it multiple layers of tissue paper with one claw. Right. Like a boulder wrapped in tissue paper.

SPEAKER_03

So until we got down to a pass the parcel acceptable passing level, I kind of had to walk I was the parcel passer. I had to like walk around. And Matt is over there just like guffawing at me.

SPEAKER_02

Um I mean, not just This is what friends do for each other, is they let you know when you're in an absurd situation and you can take a step back and see yourself.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and I fully accept the absurdity of the situation.

SPEAKER_02

Um my my husband was sweating, like he was because he was having to do the Yeah, he was he was lucky dad having to do the touch screen pauses at the exact right moment to make sure every kid. But so Emily was the human spinning wheel in the middle, like doubled over, yeah, displaying the parcel to these kids, and then it's up on you.

SPEAKER_03

I totally accept it. Uh next year we'll be better.

SPEAKER_02

It was a grand scene.

SPEAKER_03

I I do find it funny. And and I, you know, I got made fun of by almost every mom that was there as well. All the British people were like, oh honey, this is not how you do this. And can we just talk about your past the parcel? And I was like, wow, this is like a thing. I mean, for days after this was a thing. And when I got back to school, some of my teacher friends that were there with their children were like, um, I just want to talk about your past the parcel. Like a full-on intervention. Yeah. And they actually sent me videos, like, just so you know this is what should be in it. And I was like, wow, all right. So this is this is like this is a. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So now I know I've been schooled on how to pass the parcel.

SPEAKER_00

Well, that's why we brought you here.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Um, we want to learn a little bit about the British education system.

SPEAKER_02

And Emily is an actual British educator. No, wait, she's an American educator in the British system.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah. I'm a I've morphed. I'm I'm best of both worlds.

SPEAKER_02

What's your what uh now are you okay? So let's get let's get right into it. You are are you do you have a a year this year? Are you like are you like the Senco?

SPEAKER_03

No, no, no. So um Okay, so my my role is basically um I am a year three teacher. Um it's my first year teaching year three since for a couple of years, since 2022 a couple of years ago.

SPEAKER_00

Um year three, and I always forget so that's uh grade two. Second grade. Seven grade seven and grade. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So the best way to think about it is that in the UK, whenever they say three, US means two. It's it's we're the the grade level is the number below what we talk about.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I um because my kids just moved, they've sort of went up two years. It's always yeah. Yeah. They sort of like had to repeat the the number, obviously, not the year. And so emasculating for your boys as well. Yeah, but then like going coming back here, then they went they skipped from my eldest from eight to ten, I guess. That's what it meant. Yeah. So second grade. But that's though that's a very lovely age, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. I mean so I think the funny thing when I talk about the I've taught everywhere from age five all the way up to age ten here. Um and I mean kids are kids, they're just taller, you know. So you're gonna have the the main kinds of things is just how you relate to those children, which I think that has changed over the years, simply because children have changed, but um, yeah, you're always gonna have your your challenges.

SPEAKER_00

I guess fill us in on the background. So you you were a teacher in the US and tell us about when you came came over and how you actually like made the adjustment.

SPEAKER_02

Oh sure. Hold on, Mike. Oh, sorry. Yeah, we need your visa story. Fill us in about how you got that visa.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, okay. Oh, this is a we have a segment. I know, apparently the segue, segue segment. Um yeah, so I was teaching in Chicago. Um, I taught in Chicago for 15 years. Um, and at a certain point in time I started traveling. Um and just kind of decided I when I would travel, um, I would go to places like I worked in Guatemala for a while building houses, and then I would come back, and then I would go to other countries. And every time I went to another country, I would visit their schools. And I would talk to whoever would talk to me at the time. Like when I went to Ireland, I would go around and talk to the different head teachers and things at those schools. Primarily because I wanted to know what education was like in other countries versus just out of curiosity. Yeah. Yeah, basically. And most people were like, Do you want to come in and visit? I was like, Yes, I'm a teacher. This is my credentials, these are where I have. And so I started a blog kind of talking about how education was treated and how teachers were treated. Um, I went to Norway and Denmark and did the same thing there. Um, I was on holiday, but I always went to schools.

SPEAKER_00

Um and the there's a British phrase here, a busman's holiday. Have you come across this phrase? Uh-huh. It's where you do things for your job. Yeah. Where you're you're on holiday, but you do the same thing that you do on a job. And I don't know what the busman does. I guess the busman like drives a bus on his holiday.

SPEAKER_02

And yeah, and then he goes and gets on a bus to go somewhere. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I mean, I think mine was just more morbid curiosity. I was just yeah, I just really wanted to know because so many things have been going on in Chicago.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, uh teacher strikes and it was just you were you were part of the the the union, yeah in Chicago.

SPEAKER_03

That's a and that's a Chicago Teachers Union.

SPEAKER_02

Which is a like endlessly like there are battles going on all the time.

SPEAKER_03

Um I even I had a because I rode my bike all the time, I had like strike signs on the back of my bicycle, so I was like the strike bike, and I was like right around Chicago with my stuff. Yeah. Um yeah, and I was just really passionate about education. So I just wanted to know why and how it was so different. So that led me to um kind of on a whim. I it actually was a bit of a whim, just going, ah, do you think I could actually work? I'm interested in what it's like in another country. I think the best way for me to know that is to move there. So I just started looking for jobs and applying and um based on kind of the places that I had worked and the children that I had worked with, um I got an interview with a school that was kind of looking for someone who had worked in tougher areas, um, and had said, Would you be willing to come over? And yep. So it all happened actually quite quickly, I think. Um more it happened quicker than I think I was prepared for it to happen. So, but it was like, here, sell all of your things, get rid of your apartment, get two bags and a bicycle and move to the UK. Um and yeah, that did happen in 2015. So I got a temporary work visa to go and work uh for this school, and that was my first school in the UK. And then once I kind of started the the actual landing and initiation process was difficult. Um, I think just because I was hired to teach the equivalent of kindergarten or year one. Year one here, kindergarten in the States. I arrived um and then was starting to teach the very next day. And so I got in on a Sunday and it was like Monday was the very next day of school, or they'd already started, they'd have been in for one day, actually. I think I got in at Tuesday. And the woman who picked me up on the way to the school said, Oh, by the way, you're not teaching year one anymore. And the head teacher who hired you is no longer working for the school. So there's a new head teacher, and she's put you in year six. And I was like, and this was on the way to the school, and I went, right. So that's different. Cool. Whoa. I'm jet lagged, I'm gonna be teaching year six. I've never taught in this system before. Cause at least going from kindergarten in the states to year one, kindergarten to kindergarten, like my brain was kind of like, I'm jet lagged, but I can handle this.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Going for a whole new curriculum, a whole new everything.

SPEAKER_00

Watch all the kids.

SPEAKER_03

All the kids, it was crazy. Um, so I didn't really have even I was staying with um actually some Matt's sister-in-law, and um didn't have a place to live, didn't have a bank account because in this country, like you can't get a bank account.

SPEAKER_02

Not not so easy.

SPEAKER_03

Not so easy, like you have to be in this country for a certain amount of time. So um this is a hilarious segue of the story, but like I had these paychecks from the school and banks wouldn't let me open a bank account. So I was like, Oh, you know what? Screw it. So I just walked in and I saw this guy there, and he was like, Oh, I can't help you. And I just cried. I was like, you know what? I'm gonna cry because a woman crying in a British bank with this guy who looks so button up, and it worked. And he immediately was like, Oh, let's get you in a in a private room and level of awkwardness hits the roof.

SPEAKER_02

Listeners, this is a tip that you should absolutely stamp in gold.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, make crime American people get your way. And he literally was like, Oh, we I'm so sorry, this is embarrassing. And I was like, Well, it's actually not very embarrassing for me, it's probably more for you. But please give me a bank account. Like, I have all of this money that I want to be able to use, and I can't do that. Yeah, it was awkward.

SPEAKER_00

For for listeners, um, it sounded like you you sort of obtain this f f fairly well quickly, that it's easy, I'm assuming, because there's a shortage of good qualified teachers. Um is that the case still?

SPEAKER_03

I think so one, it's gonna be very different for everybody based on their skill level and the things that they kind of um their history and things that they bring to the table. Um England is still one of those places that will take qualified teachers and you just have to be determined to fill out all the paperwork. Like there's a lot of paperwork. And to get your QTS or your qualified teacher status over here, um, it's just like paperwork after paperwork after paperwork and putting all your ducks in a row. Once you've got that, sorry, once you've got that, um then it's really just kind of getting the job and getting the visa. It's so much crossing the T's and dotting the I's. I can't even tell you.

SPEAKER_00

You didn't necessarily have to have any additional training, you just had to fill out the.

SPEAKER_03

No, because you've got your teacher certification, it's just it's just going through the the motions of getting it. You also have to accept that your pay is going to be less here. Like that's how it's gonna be. Um, you can work your way up, but like you coming over, you need to adjust to that.

SPEAKER_00

Sounds like a familiar story.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

It's interesting that yeah, th though that that they just are like you're a teacher with a qualification there. It tr it transfers even without, you know, additional additional training when there are differences between the systems.

SPEAKER_03

I think especially for primary, it might be different for secondary. Okay. Um uh that's a bit out of my wheelhouse. Gotcha. Um but in my in my particular circumstance, I came with the the qualifications and the experience that they needed at the time. Yeah. Um especially.

SPEAKER_02

This particular school.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And then a particular school sponsored you or they did.

SPEAKER_03

So they'll sponsor you. Um and then that sponsorship lasts for a certain amount of time. After three years, you have to then reapply. Um and then you kind of I then eventually went for citizenship because I needed to be out of that kind of yoke of pain for that.

SPEAKER_02

What was that? Well, what was that like that first year? I mean, it's you know, you renewed, you reapplied, you went for citizenship even after that first year started so like tumultuously.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Um I think I'm just a bit of a glutton for punishment. I I I just wanted to see, I think I needed to see, I needed to kind of see it through.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Because that first year was so difficult.

SPEAKER_02

And it had start it had started like so quickly or like last minute. So you're like, this is not a standard, this is not the way it would usually go.

SPEAKER_03

I mean, for me, it was a bit like here's a really tall cliff and you don't know what's below. Jump off of it and hope that you are not, you know, gonna pass out or die. And I don't think that's the same way it is for everyone, but there are gonna be challenges when you come in. Like all right, my very first day teaching, right? I was used to working on my own. There was a lovely woman who was the aide, but the kids really knew her well. So I actually asked her to step out of the room the first day. I was like, look, these kids gotta know it's me. It's me or nothing. Yeah. So and apparently I that was a great faux pas. Like I should not have done that. So, you know, uh figuring out kind of how to build your bridges and communicate with people um is is is a very difficult thing in general. But coming from a different culture where things that I say are taken as very like brusque or abrupt when I mean them not that way. Totally. This is a this is a thing we Americans face constantly.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so we're being rude when we're actually just being direct and clear.

SPEAKER_03

Exactly and honest. And I think um like I had to kind of adapt the idea of like, man, I'm gonna have to eat a lot of crow, like in order to kind of make it through this first couple of months to figure this out. Um, with my children, it was hilarious because my first day, I'm sitting there and I'm like writing on the board. Well, the date is written differently in UK schools than in US schools. So I was like, oh. Right. Okay. So I'm gonna have to figure this out. Um and then, you know, 'cause we even say the dates differently, not just the month is swapped, but like on the date in UK schools, you'll go in and you'll write Monday the I don't know what day is this. This is the what eighth, ninth? Where are we at? Ninth?

SPEAKER_02

It's uh is it sixth? Yesterday was sixth.

SPEAKER_03

On the seventh seventh. Okay. So we would have to say it's it's Sunday, the seventh of June instead of June 7th, you know, and just those little tiny things. And then my kids came in for the first time and they were meeting me and they said, Miss, where should we put our homework? And I went, Oh, can you just put it in the the bin over there? And they all started cackling. Yeah. I was like, right, a bin. A bin is a basket in the US, a bin is a trash can here. Um and then stupidly one of the pens exploded in my hand, and I said just to myself, Ah, I got it on my pants. And all the boys in the front row were like, Missed pants. I was like, right, right, that's a thing. Um at this point. I did. Oh, it got worse. Like kids were asking me for rubbers. Ready? Um, and you were like, I was like, What? I was like, what are they? But I'm sitting here going, what are they talking about? What old are you? What could you mean? What could they mean? And I was like, right, erasers, erasers. So, you know, there's what does this rubber does the function of this rubber?

SPEAKER_02

If there's a mistake, this will prevent it. Um, okay.

SPEAKER_03

So, you know, yeah, it was a bit tricky. But um, I did stick it out. And I mean, there's lots of other things that are very different, like curriculum's very different and workloads very different. And yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Can we take a quick pause and digression? I just because this is a thing about you that that I think is d is delightful. Uh somewhere along the line, you uh I don't know at which point at which at which visa it was, but you lived the canal boat life in London for a bit.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh so I was living I was living in Hackney and um I was living with multiple people. And uh I just because I had decided I wanted to go for citizenship, um, I was also running at the time a lot, and I would run by the canal boats, and I wanted a space that was kind of my own. Um and I just kind of was like, Well, I think I can do that. Let's just see how it goes. So um yeah, I went and I uh bought a boat and um had no idea what I was doing. I I had no Would you recommend it? Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, but well you no longer it sounds like this in the past.

SPEAKER_03

It is, and I I do miss it. There is a caveat to that. I think you need to be able to embrace a complete like being able to shed your lifestyle for a while in a way because there's there's things that you're gonna be like, what's going on? Like you're having a where your home is is also kind of a second job because you have to maintain that home and or it sinks. You know, there's there's certain things that like you have to do um and you have to be okay with with that. But it was lovely. Like I would get off the train and I would walk to the towpath, and then it would be silent. And I just needed that. I needed to leave Hackney and just have the silent and or even if I was moored at like Hackney Wick or Central London and it's louder. If you don't like your neighbors, you can literally just like pull up and go, you know, like there's you've got a freedom to that.

SPEAKER_00

You didn't have a a mooring. You you no, no, no. I moved.

SPEAKER_03

So yeah, yeah. So um, and I had a I you basically have to move every certain number of days.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's like every month. I I this is my uh you're my hero now because it's sort of like a fantasy of mine.

SPEAKER_03

I don't think I can actually hack it, to be honest, because um just the space or whatever or it's strange though, because then you suddenly begin to acclimatize to the fact that you actually have more space. It's just your home has less. But when you step out of the tow path, you've got all of this beauty like right there. Yeah, it's massive, and you don't have to take care of it. Like somebody else mows it. You can find flowers everywhere, you can walk wherever you want to walk, and your neighbors are like swans and ducks, and and people they like they come up and hang out, and you have they don't like nose into your business or anything.

SPEAKER_02

Oh no, they'll steal your breakfast if you like leave it there, they'll steal it.

SPEAKER_03

But you know, it's and people are very giving in a way that you probably would not notice. Because most people in London, like they don't even make eye contact, but on the tote path, you know your neighbors, like they're moored, they're right next to you. So if you need something, you swap things, and there's a whole culture that I think allows people the freedom to just relax in a way that living in flats and they just don't.

SPEAKER_00

But you had to move the boat every so often. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. So and that's great. Um, and then you know, there's people are like, Did you have a shower? Like, yes, I had a shower and a toilet. Like, you know, but you have to do things like empty your toilet, you know. You have to be respectful of nature, you have to be respectful of you can't just empty the environmental. No, I mean I'm sure someone I'm sure, but I think you know, it's there is a respect for for what you are living in because you are now part of that ecosystem and environment. So, um but the idea of like what you use slims down, you know, because you are carrying your trash and recycling. And so, you know, I had a garden on the top of my boat and um COVID was really interesting on the boat. That was probably actually one of the craziest times.

SPEAKER_00

Um yeah, that was it sounds like a bit of an advantage though, because while people were stuck in their flats and crawling up the walls, at least you had the outside world and you didn't have to worry about sort of know any of that.

SPEAKER_03

I do think um one of the things that people are considering it, they need to know, you know, uh mail is a tricky thing. Like I had to get a PO box. And I was actually going through another visa application and citizenship while on the boat.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

And I was like, look, people, like if the UK government allows me to have a post office box, like you need to accept this on an application. Um because you're off grid, you know. Like, how do you do Wi-Fi? How do you do how do you even have a turntable? Which actually you can. You uh crank your Victoria. Oh, actually, I had a pole grinder like to do to like yeah. So lots of things you can find things. Um 12 volt batteries, there's a lot of 12 volt books that you can get. And um yeah, I we had a 12 volt turntable, you know, that kind of thing, and solar panels and how much power do you can you use? Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_02

So during that time you were on your way to citizenship. Are you dual citizenship? Or did you okay, you dual not revoked? Okay, cool. And then so you were a citizen before you married your husband? I don't I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I don't know this. Okay.

SPEAKER_03

No, no, no. Uh no, I got my citizenship um actually when we were s already in process to adopt our daughter. Okay.

SPEAKER_02

Um you're married and then okay.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, married. Um and had already gotten our first flat together, although um that's very difficult when you're not a citizen to try and buy a house. So those kinds of things are happening.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, buying a house, adopting, these are all entire other episodes. Um when you start a rival podcast.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, there you go. Okay. No, we'll have you. These are all the different lives that led.

SPEAKER_02

I know we should do a real estate episode, but it's a whole thing. So boring a series. Jeez, uh, don't even want to think about it. All right. Thank you. Thank you so much. Like that's obviously just scratching the surface. Yeah. Um so let's get into then breaking down the educational system. The good news. Yeah, I just sort of want to like the hope that you could sort of take us through the English system with comparisons and contrasts to the US, uh, you know, maybe from from nursery all all the way up.

SPEAKER_03

Okay. Um so it's quite yeah, it's quite a so I guess basically the the biggest thing right now, having worked in both, is that the US system just in general is um it kind of adds education that is uh it promotes like the breadth, the generalization of education. Um kind of as we know, you don't anyone who grew up in the U the US, like you don't really choose even like a a specialization or a major until university. And even in university, you might suddenly decide this is what you want to do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Do yeah doing a liberal arts degree.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. So the biggest I think difference then here in the UK is that it's much more specialized and much earlier on. So while you're still in secondary school, when you go on to like your A levels, you are already kind of minimizing into your core subjects that you then will utilize to make that choice. So that when you go to university, you just you go with that intention of this is what I want to be. Yeah. Um so that kind of then supports the testing system versus in both countries is a whole nother situation. Um but primarily in the UK, so some schools have terrific twos. So you'll be going from the time year two, some have nurseries, most have nurseries into reception. Reception is pre-K.

SPEAKER_02

So yeah, reception for for my money is is the equivalent of kindergarten.

SPEAKER_03

Reception would be pre-K.

SPEAKER_02

But I yeah, but uh everything starts a year earlier here, right? Like we get the kids into the system officially in reception year, which is age four-five instead of age five, six.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, a lot of places in the US do also have pre-K programs. Right. So that is similar. Um, but by the time you are ending reception here, um, there's already the not expectation, but it has been introduced reading phonics, the phonics programs that they use. Um, you know, you it there's a whole like running start. Everything is much more targeted um to getting you to a certain level at a certain time. And yeah. Whereas I think um not that the US is much more because they're still pretty heavily focused on this curriculum, but um, I think the US is a bit more play-based for a a bit longer. It may have changed. Like this is the other thing, is that when I was there, this is what it was like.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Versus there's been some massive changes just in the past 10 years, but even more massive just in the past five years. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um because of COVID, uh or just because of educational trends.

SPEAKER_03

I would say because of bureaucratic bullshit. Can I say that? I don't know if I can say that.

SPEAKER_02

So no, we we we like the E on our episode.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, so I would say because of what happens uh, you know, with education, unfortunately, it it is the first um the first in the line of of of sight when a new government comes in as to how much they actually value education. And in the US, I mean i I feel like in the US definitely education is is not valued. Teachers are not as valued as they should be. Um but they're also the first people both in the US and the UK that bear the brunt of the of the political changes that are happening. And funding is cut regularly, um more initiatives are put on place on teachers without the support behind them, but that's like an afterthought most times. Um and you're just kind of the best way I can explain it. So there's a weekly staff meeting at all schools, and at this weekly staff meeting, instead of like let's look at our achievements, hone in on what we've been doing, look at the positives of those things, what are the things that perhaps should need to be tweaked? That doesn't often happen. Usually it's hey guys, so this week here's a new initiative, and now we're gonna start this, and here's another thing you need to do on top of the things you are already doing. Oh, by the way, this is what we're gonna be doing then with that. Where it's gonna be an ongoing process and go. And it's it's difficult because certain schools handle it differently, but for the most part, it's another thing. Sometimes it's that learning of you're tweaking something like vocabulary that you've already been teaching, and now we're teaching it like this. But you really have to go in and be kind of a switch hitter and be like, okay, right, I'm doing this now. Okay, great. And this is how I have to do it. Go. Um and that's very difficult.

SPEAKER_02

So you know, there's and you feel like here's a lot more.

SPEAKER_03

I think the workload here is a lot more. Okay. Because it's um one, the way that they so in the US you like use worksheets, you do things, and those worksheets normally go home to parents or to the trash can or you know, the special filing cabinet. Um but and then you're planning and you're teaching. Here they use books. And those books are all of the work is kept in those books. Those books then have to be marked every day. And sometimes you have to leave like little comments for the kids to then go back and answer those comments. So I have 30 children in my class. I teach oh boy, let's see how many subjects. Uh eight. I teach eight subjects. So, you know, it's eight times thirty. So it's what, 240 books?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So just the storage alone.

SPEAKER_03

Right. So on average, like all of those lessons are planned for, all of the work is prepared for every single subject you teach, and then all of those books have to be marked.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So when my British teacher friends say that they can't come to the pub this evening because they're doing marking, it's not that they just don't like me very much. No, it is that as well, my good one.

SPEAKER_03

It's that their head's about to explode because they have to go do it.

SPEAKER_00

That's what they're that's what they're talking about.

SPEAKER_02

And then as a parent at the end of the year, like last year at the end of my daughter's year one, and they gave us like kutunk this stack of books. And you're like, oh, all her beautiful work. And we really loved flipping through and seeing, you know, all that she'd learned over the course of the year. Because, you know, after school every day, when we say, like, what did you do at school today? She's like, I don't want to talk about it. I wish you were the type of parent who wouldn't ask me that. Um, okay, great, I'll just wait till the end of the year and then I'll I'll catch up on your education. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I I even leaf through the books now, you know, because uh well, I'm particularly curious about what they're learning uh as it compares to what they were learning in America just uh last year. Um and and I find it quite useful. Yeah. Yeah, I'm very happy for you guys.

SPEAKER_02

Well, you're and your daughter's in year one now. She is, yeah. Um you I just remember this, I just wanted you can edit this one out. Like last year, it was you're such a great friend to have uh as a parent because like last year when we saw you guys right near the start of the year, uh, the start of the school year, you were like, you're gonna see such a big jump in literacy this year.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, maybe.

SPEAKER_02

And and I was uh in in my daughter's year one year, and I was like, okay, well, we'll see. She's an individual. Maybe she will, maybe she won't. And and sure enough, she had this massive jump in in literacy, which was good for me because I then I didn't think she was so special when it happened. Um but it's great, yeah. It's just great for you to having worked with uh you know this this range of of years to you know to have a real uh handle on on development. Primary school goes up to what year?

SPEAKER_03

Year six. And then you make the jump to secondary school in year seven.

SPEAKER_02

Which will be a different building generally. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So you're in a totally different world. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um so it's like for us going from elementary to junior high. Yeah, but the But not the same.

SPEAKER_00

But the middle school thing isn't a thing here. No, it's not. You're just in it. You're just in it, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And that's why secondary school is so scary. Is because not only are you you're suddenly, you were the you know, the the big fish in a very tiny pond. Yeah. And now you go to being a very, very tiny fish because you're in a building. Some secondary schools have have two buildings, some it's just one, and you're in this massive place with kids that are like all the way up to like 17, 18 kind of thing, getting ready to leave. Yeah. So it it's a lot.

SPEAKER_02

Okay. And so so secondary school, at what point then are these students uh year seven and up being asked to do that honing to start choosing their own.

SPEAKER_03

So you take your GTSEs first.

SPEAKER_02

What's that stand for?

SPEAKER_03

Um so that's like your general yeah, it's your stupid keep going. I just want to see what you guys are coming up with.

SPEAKER_02

General secondary curriculum education. I'm just in words and see which world.

SPEAKER_00

No super educated.

SPEAKER_03

That's you're so close. Okay. So it's basically the general certification of secondary education.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, okay So you guys were all pretty much said all of those words at one point, but never in that order. Gold star for you guys. You got it.

SPEAKER_03

Um that's gonna be like Yeah, yeah. Good job for you guys. Um so that's basically it's like your 10-year 11 is basically when you're taking your GCSEs. Okay. And then after that, you'll then begin to like hone in on subjects before you'll do your A levels or your like advanced levels that you're gonna be learning about. Um and I mean, so those that's there's no real equivalent in the US um that you're doing. So I think I made a note that I think this is excluding Scotland, but it's like age like 16 to 18 here. Um, that they'll be doing their A levels. A levels, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Okay. And A levels just talk to me like I'm an idiot, like I haven't prepared for my daughter's future.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Those are your advanced levels that you're gonna be using in order to get into university.

SPEAKER_00

Also, the A stands for advanced. Yes.

SPEAKER_03

Advanced. Advanced level. I didn't know that. So the closest thing in the US, um, I can't find my note on this, but AP It's basically AP courses. Yeah, yeah. It's basically AP courses.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, and and this is where uh uh students will choose how many advanced levels to pursue.

SPEAKER_03

Well, you'll kind of decide you're gonna hone in on what you want to do with for the rest of your life. Uh I know, right? And then those particular courses will be uh what you'll be using. Um, I mean, so did you guys ever read Harry Potter?

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

SPEAKER_03

Wow, he says, okay, well, so yeah, there's a whole section in that when Harry becomes a certain age where he he takes all of the classes that he needs to become an aura. And for any Harry Potter fans, there you go. And like that's what these guys are doing. They're taking the classes that they need in order to then take it. But then those A-level tests, it's a very high-stakes test. I mean, these kids go crazy over it. I mean, and as they should, like it's kind of a do-or-die situation where then they're taking specific tests to match the courses that they're taking to go into university in that field. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

The my my eldest he's he's starting the GCSE thing. Yeah. And um, they have various rounds of what they call mocks. Yes. And this was a new concept to me. But the the i I guess it just sort of underlines sort of the testing focus nature of this whole thing. Because I did go up to the deputy head teacher and I said, excuse me, I'm I'm American, I'm not familiar with this system. Um, my my wife has is somehow abandoned me or at this parent evening. I just hung me out to dry here. Uh when you say mocked, you mean they don't count, right? And he's like, Yes, yes. Right. They don't count. But and then he explained to me the whole sort of process behind it. But uh it's it's it it is very focused on the tests.

SPEAKER_03

It is. I mean, that starts in year six. So in year six, they take the SATS tests. Um and the SATS tests are there's mock tests leading up to that to gauge how well you're going to do on that test. I mean, it is also to kind of get the children prepared for what it will feel like to take that test because it's traumatic for a lot, like a lot of kids, like at a very you're talking age 10, like begin to lose sleep over things and they're worried about the test. And it's a very high pressure, it's a week-long test that these kids are being put through.

SPEAKER_00

Um yeah, some of the kids my my um, you know, and kids very, and some of them are good test takers, and others, I mean, my son's school when he was taking those, we're we're definitely freaking out about it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I don't we I mean, we would have our week of standardized tests in the US in the in the 80s, 90s. Yeah. And that and of course that led to lots of controversy about who's writing these tests and what what are their biases.

SPEAKER_03

It's still controversial now, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And but I don't remember I don't yeah, I don't remember stressing out about them. Uh maybe because I was like, I was one of the kids who was like, yeah, I got this, but like Yeah, I mean, there's the tests now, like when they take the tests still in the United States, most of those then help them know what um like high school they'll get into.

SPEAKER_03

The thing about the SATS test here, which I find amusing, I guess, is the fact that most of the kids in year six have already applied for a secondary school. You know, before they even take the SATS tests. So there used to be the line of like, oh, your SATS test will help determine what secondary school you get. That's not really a thing. Okay. So most kids have already applied and either gotten into that or not based on other things. So yeah, I find that kind of interesting. Most testing in general, I think it's really just for the school to be granted funding. Yeah. But it really is. How do we rank schools? How do we rank schools? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And Ofsted is a acronym that maybe we should or shouldn't get into, but this is a big thing. And Ofsted has recently changed how they how they grade and how they tag schools. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Ofsted open for super taxing educational disappointment.

SPEAKER_03

Right. That sounds it's really it's bang on right there. Um it's yeah, it's really Ofsted.

SPEAKER_02

They inspect your schools and give them ratings and it's like the sanitation thing on a restaurant, whether you've been given the FUT. No, it's not.

SPEAKER_03

I'm just not, but it it it is it is one of the ongoing um, I think, discussions that needs to be with education of how do you rate your teachers? How do you make sure they're doing what they're doing, but also then how do you rate a school? You know, how do you go in and say that these teachers and this head teacher and the systems they put in are working for the children? And that's I think what it was originally for. Like, how do you rate this so that people walking down the street go, man, that's a great school, versus, oh, I need to avoid that. They're going through changes. Well, we put up banners to say we are a good school or we are an excellent school. But offset has changed, thankfully, because they would go and they would evaluate a school, rate it excellent, and then not come back for a really long time. And a school can change in a heartbeat, depending on who the leadership is, who the teachers are. And I think that's that's a very difficult thing for parents, especially as a parent now, rating schools. You see a school that's good, that might actually still not be a good fit for your kid.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_03

And that's what I think parents need to be aware of, but especially like American parents coming into a British system, you need to go in and kind of just be like, look, this is the blueprint of my child. However, it's a blueprint. So they can either like have a really great experience or they can have a really shitty one. And it's all gonna be dependent on how your teachers and how your staff like manage things. And that's something that Ofsted can't really gauge.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

So I I find Ofsted useful for a lot of people who want to see what the school is, but ultimately, like as parents, you still need to go in and say, Can I talk to people? Yeah. Like, can I see what's going on?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um, just because you don't know the fit.

SPEAKER_02

Choosing our primary school, we, you know, there we we were lucky to have a lot of schools, just a large number of schools in the area to choose from. And we, you know, we're allowed to rank choice like up to six schools. Yeah. And then based on geography, based on siblings, you know, they'll they'll place your your kid in in one of those schools. But but we did, you know, these schools are used to having these open days and interviews. So we came in and, you know, uh met people and saw facilities, and and I, as an American, we're like, uh what is this R.E.? Why is there so much religion? So much religion. But it's, you know, I mean, like, you know, I think I actually like RE in the UK. I like it. Like, oh my when my child last year was telling me like Hindu myths, these crazy violent Hindu myths. I was like, is this cool? I was like, yeah, it's no more weird than you know some of the Christian stories that were, you know, just downloaded uh uh in America in my youth.

SPEAKER_03

I but it's one of the things that I wish the US did actually, because I feel like there would be as far as tolerance. Yeah, exactly. Because, you know, it's interesting that m kids in my class now are like, oh, so we're kind of all the same. We just read different books. And I was like, yep, that's where you go, man. And I think that's something that this country does really well, is because there is so much diversity that's like acknowledged diversity rather than the other. So it's diversity, but let's not talk about it. Right. I mean, it's hard. It's like most Americans just sigh when they're like, okay. Um, but I think here it's a very, you know, it's becoming more and more open in the education system. And RE kind of does that, which I I appreciate. It's one of my favorite subjects to teach, actually.

SPEAKER_02

So um just yeah, okay, so then skipping forward, uh, one thing I just love is is the uh though I'm sure it's not fantastic for every student who's finishing their A levels and heading into university, but I do love the the sort of the the national media every year A-level results day is like this this thing that is reported on and celebrated.

SPEAKER_03

Should be a national holiday.

SPEAKER_02

We see and you know, and you'll hey I'm here with uh Tanya who's like weeping with joy. They never interview the kids whose A levels haven't gone so well.

SPEAKER_03

Um But the one thing I will say also in this country that I appreciate when you go into secondary school is that the apprenticeship programs that are available, like there are a lot of children that you know they know from a young age, this is what I want to be an electrician, I want to do this, I want to do this. And that's valued, you know, in this country. It's like, yeah, you want to be an apprenticeship, you want to go do these things, please go do that.

SPEAKER_00

Um they start th those people won't necessarily do A levels.

SPEAKER_03

Maybe not. Yeah. Sometimes they'll be doing. Yeah, maybe, maybe not. And there might be um like a good friend of mine who she's also American, her son doesn't want to go to university. He wants to be an electrician, but he his grand design is to be an electrician. Um, and his brother wants to be a plumber, and then they want to start their own business and be able to take care of like everything. That's great. Exactly. And I was like, you guys know exactly what you want to do.

SPEAKER_02

And now you just need a marketing person.

SPEAKER_03

And please go do that because one, everybody always needs that. You know what I mean? And so I think that's and they started doing apprenticeships in secondary school.

SPEAKER_02

You feel like that's better than like the US system of vocational schools, which I feel like at least in my community, sort of had a stigma attached to it. I think they still do.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I think that's a that's a thing. Like one of my students wants to be a gardener. And he asks me all the time. I mean, he's year three, but he's like, I really want to be a gardener, and he loves plants, and he comes in every day and sometimes he brings me plants. And he was like, Can I be a can I be a gardener? I'm like, Yes, you can. He goes, he goes, Could I own one of those places where people come and buy things? And I was like, It's called a nursery. Yes, you could. Um and I mean I think he's kind of dealing with already, he says it to his family, and his family's like, okay, okay. But he has all about what about being a botanist? Right? Yeah. But already at year three, he was like, Can I get a job working to learn about plants? And I was like, Yes, you can. So I mean, I I it's really interesting that children I think are also branching out. I'm sure they do in the US as well, but sometimes you're right, there is a bit of a stigma around that. Like, go to university, go and do this. Yeah. You're like, well, it's not it's not everybody's cup of tea.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um, I guess some other differences. Uh you are you are addressed as as miss. I am. Uh despite your marital status. You are you are miss. I'm a miss. And uh other people are sir.

SPEAKER_03

Yep. Miss and Sir is a general respectful. I I I like that trend.

SPEAKER_02

You know, my kids' primary school, they are just called by their first name. So this is just a weave, this is the the aesthetic that people have chosen.

SPEAKER_03

I think that there is there are more progressive schools that are doing these things, but in both countries. Um, some friends of mine that still teach Chicago are like, hey, we've made the switch to be called by our first name. And I was like, cool, that's sounds great. Um you know, even in when I taught in Chicago, they would they would call me Ms. Gann. Um they always were astounded that I had a first name. Uh I mean, they're fives. They're like, oh, you've got a first name and you don't sleep here. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00

Whenever you found out your teacher's first name, I mean it's like the secret, you know, I know. Yeah. Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_03

Also, when they see you outside of school, they're like, she's real. Yeah, you know, that whole thing.

SPEAKER_02

But um especially when you're in the wild. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

But here, you know, it's there is mist, there is sir, you know, that's what you call people. Um and the uniform thing, too.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. The it is standard that there is a uniform. Yeah. They are very um rigid? Uh they're very rigid. Yeah, no, absolutely. They're very scratched. They're usually made out of polyester, like the cheapest, like lowest grade of polyester. Um they are um well, you know, when you get to secondary school, some schools are very, very strict in terms of the um I mean, the pages of of rules about how you should wear this, and you get detention if you do all the way to like hair things for girls.

SPEAKER_03

I mean, actually, that's it's that starts in primary school.

SPEAKER_02

Um, I feel like it's these teenagers are starting to feel their oats a little bit more and they're starting to realize that they're they're quite intelligent. And so we need to bring them down a notch by making them look as silly as possible with like real weird colored blazers and short ties and uh you know uh yeah. But the short skirts, have you seen the love of the skirts?

SPEAKER_03

I mean, come on. Like Yeah, I mean this is pretty intense. It's um no bueno. I uh okay, so in the US, even when I was teaching there, there were whole things, especially in the area that I was teaching in, that um I mean this was south side Chicago uh at one point in time, and um we actually considered uniforms for lots of reasons. One, because you always know what you're gonna wear in the morning, and for most of the population that I taught, it was a poor community. And so they were like, look, if we do uniforms, one, they're recognized as part of our school, kids aren't competing with different types of clothes, they aren't having to wear like name brand things. Meme girls isn't allowed to be able to do that. Right, yeah. Things aren't getting stolen. There's everyone's coming to school on an even playing field. And if parents buy three sets of uniforms, and they that's pretty much what they they don't have to worry about it. Um so it it takes it takes a lot of the stigma of where you come from and your societal ranking out.

SPEAKER_02

I'm pro uniforms. I just wish we put a little bit more thought into the design.

SPEAKER_03

Well, okay. Design aside, um I I'm not sure if you like choose a school being like, ooh, they have green blazers, let's go there, you know.

SPEAKER_00

But my yes, two par parents in our neighborhood, uh our particular school has no blazer and just a sweater. And this is contentious for some people. Yeah. Um, because there's other schools in the area that have very complicated ties, blazers or whatever. And um Yeah, I've I've I've I've always been astonished at the sort of like um snobbery, I suppose, that develops around this kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03

Oh well, I think that that that that's a part of it, you know. Like my daughter we we did at one point in time try and switch her schools. Um because we moved to a new neighborhood and we wanted her to have friends in the neighborhood. And the school that they went to was like very I mean, she was going in, she's five at the time that she moved. She was five years old. They were like, here's the tie. You have to wear a collared shirt, it has to have buttons, you have to have a certain color of tights, a certain color of socks, uh, this particular type of shoe. Any hair things had to be this particular color. And it was like whoa.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you know, stress inducing.

SPEAKER_03

And we got notes home. And my my daughter, like many children, has some sensory needs. And the idea of like putting a constricting thing around your neck was like a battle every morning, to the point where I took the elastic off and just sewed it to the shirt so it would like be part of it so she didn't have to put it around her neck. Like, you know, there's things that it's very difficult when you've got little people and they have, you know, their own sensory decisions about how they're gonna dress. You're like, oh my god, this is so hard. But even uniforms, there's also still a um you know, it's difficult like if your uniforms aren't clean or if you don't have a certain number of them. And yes, they are scratchy materials, but they're also ridiculously expensive. And so parents need to be able to kind of wiggle around that expense. Otherwise, it does just become another money-making, kind of bureaucratic, snobby thing that is supposed to elevate your children, but really they should just be learning. So let's get over that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

It's a tricky, it's another one of those tricky hurdles. Um, and you know, as a parent, parents will come to me saying, 'They lost their jumper.' I'm like, I'm really sorry. Did you put your name in it? Like, I didn't know what to tell you. So it's a it's a hard thing.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Schools uh my kids' school has a uniform rail, which is like an ongoing thing of like, hey, I've outgrown these. I'm gonna donate them to the uniform rail.

SPEAKER_00

Um you go in there at the end of the year and you pick up everything, you can take whatever you need.

SPEAKER_03

You guys, it's like end of the week. I mean, we we roll out a cart because these kids will just be like, I'm you know, they've got their cardigans and it's hot and they just like top it, chucking it, you know. Um but yeah, I mean it's I think it's also difficult because it gets so hot in our schools, and these kids one of, you know, they they're just wearing a lot. Yeah, it's hard. It's hard being a kid.

SPEAKER_02

Uh so there's any uh we this is like we I've got a lot of bullet points and we've touched on a lot of things, but I know you had you had some things, you had some notes prepared. Like if you wanted to highlight any big differences in curriculum or or or advantages for one nation versus another, anything, go for it.

SPEAKER_03

I think kind of the interesting thing is we kind of talked about most of these things, about kind of the breakdown of what you have to do and where you go and the testing and things like that. I mean, it is interesting that in both countries, like the world rankings that we have, you know, which you can decide how much you value those, but you know, like the UK I think is like 13th, but the US is 31st. Okay. And they're usually always kind of below the top 10.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

Um the curriculum over here is interesting because like most curriculum that is designed, be it the US or the UK, one of the main differences for the UK curriculum is that you have this very top-down curriculum, which kind of still expects children to be a very specific way. It doesn't actually match the kids at all and doesn't really allow for children to explore education and to explore their own pace of learning. Um, it moves very, very fast. And so like my timetable is ridiculous. It's like to the minute. And if you think about just us as adults, like in a in a basic day, right? About how much input do you guys hourly think you could handle? Like how many hours of input do you guys think that you could you could realistically handle? Like within a within a within within a six hour period.

SPEAKER_00

I struggle to remember sort of like five things that I need to go through. Okay.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So So we're over you're we're overloading kids.

SPEAKER_03

And and it's interesting because you think so they start school at 8 45, they walk in. At nine o'clock, it's their first lesson. It does not stop until three.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And at three, it's pack up and go home. So they might have that break time in the middle of like 45 minutes to run around at lunchtime, but ultimately after lunch, you know, you're coming in at let's say one o'clock, and then you're run you're learning two pretty heavy subject areas in the afternoon again, regardless of your age. And I think that's it's a it's a lot to put on children as an overload, and there's no time for like wiggle room because teachers have felt the pressure of timing. Like you have to get these things done. It has to move. But then you've got actual little people in front of you who are taking in all of that information. And they have their own agendas about how much they actually need and how much they can handle. So you've got a teacher being incredibly overloaded, but having to meet an agenda because they have to answer to someone else who expects these things to get done. And you've got children who are the conduit for this, that you're just going, you know, and some days they can't handle it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So it's interesting you brought up because your daughter was like, Why are you asking me how my day is? Is that I find it funny because and this is just from a a parent but also a teacher, is that imagine you've been bombarded with information for almost six hours, and then you go home, and the first thing your parents, and this is what all parents do. How is your day? Tell me about your day. And they're like, What did you look at? I cannot handle anymore some adult asking me a question. And so it's really interesting. Um so it's funny now, because when I do talk to a lot of parents, I'm like, maybe just say tell me your favorite part of today.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Or like how did you feel at lunch today? Or, you know, just something or you know, random questions that you're still talking to them, but but allowing that like decompression. Because that's what schools don't do in the UK. There is no decompression at all. It is go, go, go, go, go, go, go, which is why one of the other things teachers are now being asked to do is be a regulator. Like you're having to not just teach, not just be the nurse for welfare, not just like take care of social emotional stuff. You are an emotional regulator and a model of emotional regulation. And while also being a taskmaster to like get these things done within a certain amount of time. And the system doesn't allow you to stop and go, you know, we're not gonna do this today. I mean, I still do, don't tell anybody at a podcast. But I, you know, there are moments like in my class that I'll I'll look at them and go, guys, this lesson is not going very well. I don't like the way I'm teaching it because I feel that it's being rushed. So I'm not gonna do this right now.

SPEAKER_02

Being able to pivot is yeah, you have to be able to do it.

SPEAKER_03

But a lot of even new teachers that are coming into the UK system, uh there is no I have to pivot. Like they are hit with something and it's it's very difficult to to to manage the behaviors that are coming out while also teaching. Those are two separate entities, and the UK just assumes kids will still be like, Yes, miss. Yes, miss, but they don't. You know, very rarely will they say yes, miss. So you need to build that one thing the US does is relationships, relationships, relationships. And there's a lot of people still building on those relationships, whereas I think the UK just assumes kids are kind of like I will do whatever you say, miss, and stand when you enter the room, miss. And you're like, that is not how things are anymore. Like in education at all. Like kids are kids are kids, but they're also being bombarded with a lot. I know I'm sorry, going waffling a bit, but like they're bombarded with so much input even before they walk through the building. You know, so it's it's yeah, it's become um a different world than than even like ten years ago.

SPEAKER_02

Uh maybe I'm just maybe I'll just sell my kid. It sounds like too much of a hassle. I just gotta say, like, uh one of the things in school culture uh is uh other people's children, like having to uh having to interface and show interest in uh just as a parent with with parent peers, uh again, pop and peas. Uh and so I just you know, I just shout out, Emily, to you and to all teachers to uh have to professionally deal with other people's kids all the time. And I got a play date and I'm like, oh my God, I can't believe this kid. Um as well as my kid. Oh, thanks, Matt.

SPEAKER_03

I do think the funny thing is is that most of the time, and most teachers would say that the burnout does not come from their actual job. Like for me, I don't believe that my burnout comes from like I love my vocation. I love I love being a teacher, I love being in my classroom with my kids. The burnout comes from a system that doesn't support teachers. And that's the burnout.

SPEAKER_02

How can we start to like is there something that us as individuals, parents, citizens uh can do in our communities to support teachers more, to support our schools more, to to yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um I just think like open communication and and and understanding, I think. Like there's the community has been taken out of schools, which ultimately it needs to be brought back into schools because teachers need to understand that parents are under pressure. Like you go home. For me as a parent, my my kid doesn't do a lot of homework at night. Probably shouldn't have said that either, but like because by the time she gets home and we get home, it's like 5 30 at night, she goes to sleep around 7 15. But she's also had a long day. So, like asking a six-year-old to like sit down and do your spelling. Parents have a lot on their plate as well. And teachers need to understand that blaming parents for a lack of practicing things at home is probably not the fairest thing to do. Like, parents have a lot on, um and parents have their own situations with multiple jobs or single parent homes or just wanting to be with their kids at night, like you know, just hanging out, having a good time. Um likewise, teachers have so much on their plate that I think sometimes parents aren't aware that that that's also happening. Right.

SPEAKER_02

Or that they are a person.

SPEAKER_03

And so when things happen a lot too, it's kind of like my favorite thing is when there is a an issue and a parent will come up and say, you know, well, this couldn't have happened with my kid. Like I totally get where you're coming from. However, I didn't wake up this morning and decide to make up something about your kid. Like I've got so many things going on, but my evil plans.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_03

Like I d I have, you know, I've no horse in this race. Like this is what happened, this is what's gonna happen. And I don't mean anything bad about that, but that's just how it is. Um going back to the US UK thing, uh I I do have to kind of curb that a lot with parents because it comes out I think sometimes quite abruptly. Whereas I'm just like, this is the situation, this is how I'm dealing with it. End of story. You know, tomorrow's a new day. So come back in, we deal with it another day, we do something different. Um Yeah. So I I I don't really mince words a lot. And I I think I going back to your original question, I think just that communication, being able to understand like that each other are just trying to do the best for this person that happens to be the child in front of us. Yeah. It all goes back to the kids.

SPEAKER_00

So fabulous.

SPEAKER_03

I hope any of that made sense.

SPEAKER_02

It did, no, it's it's good. You know, and it's interesting, like how are Americans coming here with kids? As their work moved them, and they had like Mike, when you went to well, I guess what you went to the States with with pre-existing kids, with a pre-existing condition. Uh but you know, sometimes people will move to the UK with kids or like Emily, move here and then start a family. Um so yeah, it's a lot, it's a lot to navigate because we uh we've been institutionalized one way. Right uh and even though we can make these comparisons, they they are not one-to-one. And so you do need to rewire.

SPEAKER_00

Many I think many listeners will, well, even if they aren't parents, might be potential potential parents in the future. Um and and might have some um uh uh uh uh help at home uh having a British spouse, a partner, or co-parent, whatever it might be. Um but on the other hand, having you know, I'm I'm now sort of um like I say, my oldest eldest is in year ten. I'm still like learning about the British educational system. And it changes every day.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, so when a new political system comes in, uh education will change. I mean, right now there's also um like just with what's coming in, there's a new push on S End and the white papers are coming out to basically saying like the whole way that you view special education in schools is now going to be completely revamped. And so that's another thing that it's hard for parents to know what their rights are if they have children with special needs. And that's very different than in the US.

SPEAKER_02

And it's a real battleground too with like political implications.

SPEAKER_03

Here you've really got to, you know, I would say for any anybody who is potentially going to be a parent or is already a parent that's an American, the one of the main things is if you have a child with special needs to like get in there and continue to ask because there are a lot of different acronyms, there's a lot of different pathways to be taken, there's there's just a lot. And schools can provide certain things, but you've got to know the ins and outs of that. And the only way to do that is to kind of just knock on the doors.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think that's really like pretty good. And and doing the research, I suppose, is important too. I mean, I suppose one of the things is that, you know, uh because it is all centralized, and obviously you talked about why the the the shortcomings of Offstead, but it it does provide sort of like information in a fairly central way that is I don't call it easy to understand. But for for a parent to sort of navigating this kind of stuff, the information's out there if you want it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and I and I don't think Offstead, I mean, I take it from a teacher's perspective, but from a parent's perspective, you know, one of the schools that we eventually chose at one point in time, but my daughter's back at my school now, but was the offset report and just looking at it and looking at the past offset and how the school has changed. Like it it is a tool. So that I think that it should not be overlooked. It's just from a teacher's perspective, you go, oh Offset. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00

So thanks for giving us that primer. Yeah, primer? Primer Primer. How do we say it? How do we say it's a primer?

SPEAKER_02

Primer Emily, we yeah, we might need to have you back for any number of topics down in the future. But uh this has been this has been really great. Thank you for thank you for making it all the way to Dalston for this today.

SPEAKER_03

Um happy to come and chat with you guys.

SPEAKER_00

Uh remind our listeners of the email, Matt.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so if you uh want to give us a comment or present us a topic or say, hey, I got a cousin who'd be a really great guest. Our email address is Cold Dark Miserable Pod. Cold Dark Miserable Pod. That's gmail.com. And uh yeah, don't forget to do all the nice things that you would do when you listen to a podcast. And we are on YouTube as well with more YouTube shorts on the way.

SPEAKER_03

Can I say one last thing? Please. Because I've got a microphone in front of me. Just uh a shout out to all the teachers out there, um, be them American or British. And the fact that um American teachers are already on summer holidays. Wow. But British teacher, we've got six weeks left. Six weeks. So you can you can do it. We've got this.

SPEAKER_02

Longer year, more breaks. This is another thing to for for me to get used to as well as a parent. I'm like, wow, we just half term, we just had Easter holidays.

SPEAKER_00

Right. Another week to fill their minds with video games and activities and camps and all of that half-term homework that we send home, right, guys?

SPEAKER_02

I mean, I don't not not in my state here too, but I'm looking forward to it. This is my thing with with my daughter, is like homework is gonna be a part of your life. You should start to enjoy it now. What?

SPEAKER_03

I know, I know. I don't really believe in homework, but I we won't get into that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Mike, um, did you know that I did some education in my past? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Well, uh I don't know if this will work week week on week, but I have like a a little uh uh musical story time uh as a potential theme to present. Based on your own experience? Based on my own experience. This is a true story.

SPEAKER_00

Wow, wow, wow. You're gonna try it out now?

SPEAKER_02

I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna try it out. I'm gonna try it out now, yeah, if I could. I did try educating in the past, um uh, but um I'm not doing that now, obviously. So but I want to hearken back to uh another uh an American actor in a tough London school trying to trying to educate kids and uh and and this this musical story is gonna make me look great. So are you ready? Go for it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

New to England and needing work part time supply teaching gig Got my DBS check, but zero training with special needs kids. First day on playground duty are you American? Do you know Kanye West? A bully pantster kid. I tried to intervene. Hey, hey, I saw you, you pulled his pants down. No, I didn't have pulled his trousers down the kids all laughed. I said, you know what I mean. If you wanted my help, you should not have been such little dicks. So after that one shift I quit from sir with barely concealed content.