Why the NFL's Pay for Performance Plan Just Works and Why Young Coaches Thrive During March Madness

00-06:  By the Numbers: WNBA's New Salary Cap
06-20:  NFL's Pay for Performance Plan Works
20-33:  Young Coaches Thrive in the NCAA Tournament
33-43:  Ohio State football and men's basketball

#wnba #salarycap #nfl #marchmadness #ncaabasketball #ncaatournament #ohiostate #ohiostatefootball 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:06

What's up, everybody? Welcome to another episode of the Bottom Line on Sports, our show about the intersection between sports and money. He's Jeremy Pink, a Duke graduate this week. I'm Jean-Jacques Taylor, usually an Ohio State graduate, and I am one this week. And perhaps we'll meet up in the second round of the NCAA tournament.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Very possible.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

What's up this week, bro?

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Well, first of all, I apologize because I'm we're taping on a Wednesday afternoon and there's a tremendous amount of sunlight on my face. So probably it's better you can't see me clearly, actually. Um, but today we're talking about um what's called NFL Performance for Pay, which is essentially paying players who uh don't get compensated fairly, at least according to a collective bargaining agreement, uh sort of every year. We'll explain it a little bit more. We'll talk about the NCAA tournament, but we'll talk about why there's so many young coaches and why that's such a cost-effective measure. And then, of course, we'll talk about Ohio State, the NCAA tournament, and uh Matt Patricia, who re-up for big bucks for the Buckeyes for next year.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

But first, and we'd like to start every show with a number because we never know what kind of rabbit hole it takes us down. This week's number is 300,000. And that would be the average minimum salary for WNBA players after they reach the uh agreed to terms on a new collective bargaining agreement. Just so you know, last year's minimum salary if you played in the NB in the WNBA, 66,000. So that's quite an increase. Uh it's enough, not enough for them to go popping bottles on a regular basis, but at least now, if you want to pop bottles on your birthday, you can afford to.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

Yeah, you can. And we we were looking at uh NBA salaries by comparison, and sort of the minimum, the minimum NBA salary is 1.2 million, and the median NBA salary is 5 million. So the median NBA salary is five five million. Each team's salary cap in the WNBA is 7 million.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Hey man, small steps. Um, it was uh you know, there's a chance. I was starting to hear a little grumbling lately that there was a chance league was going to go away because they couldn't reach an agreement. I never thought it was going to get to that point. There's always a point in a in a negotiation where you go, okay, we've both given you our silly offers. Now let's really the deadline's approaching, the real deadline, because everybody's got fake deadlines, but the real deadline's approaching, let's go ahead and hammer it out and get a deal done because it really doesn't benefit anybody, either side, for this thing to go away. So let's figure out how to make it happen and uh and get something getting something done. And so they did 300,000. Um, you know, it's more, it's uh more than a lot of people make. And if you're a professional, I mean, geez, man, it's okay to make a couple dollars, it's not going to break the NBA teams who are who are funding it. And uh, you know, uh if they can continue to put up numbers, uh, that'll increase over time.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

Yeah, I also think there's such a tremendous amount of animosity between the players, and particularly the commissioner of the WNBA these days. And I don't know if this is going to reconcile that, but also there's a lot of other ways in leagues that women can make money playing basketball that don't happen to be the WNBA. So I think that all of those things that you mentioned kind of had to come together and they had to get paid at least something. And you know, in as their television contracts increase, which is essentially what's gonna drive uh the salary cap down the road, uh, there that should increase quite a bit because that's gonna become a more and more valuable property, particularly with Caitlin Clark in the league, um, with Angel Reese in the league, with uh AZ Fudd, who's coming up, with Paige Beckers. They have they're gonna have a number of stars in the league that's actually gonna drive uh it's gonna drive television viewership. And I think that will be really what ultimately drives salaries and makes that a much uh, you know, players get paid much more in the future.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

Well, the reason I like the college women's game is they add more recognizable star players in part because their stars have been hanging around for four years. For sure. So you get to know them, and uh they've got personalities, got storylines, and so when they get to the WNBA, you already know them. You're all like, oh, she plays for so-and-so. Let me see uh what's going on with them. Whereas to me in the NBA, it's like you, you know, this is supposed to be the greatest NBA class of rookies in forever. There's supposed to be six who are dynamite. Can you name the six?

SPEAKER_00 4:50

Right, I can't.

SPEAKER_01 4:52

How many can you name?

SPEAKER_00 4:53

Yeah, I know that there's a the Peterson guy, DeBonce, DeBonsta, whatever his name is on BNU, Peterson on Kansas.

SPEAKER_01 5:00

I just heard out of A, what is it, Darien Acuff, I think, out of Arkansas.

SPEAKER_03 5:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

I just heard about him last week. He's one of the six. Yeah, but that's it. That's the issue. If, you know, and to me, that's the thing. College basketball's got to fix. They gotta figure out how to get people watching their game again. Like, I don't watch college basketball until the tournament shows up. Remember? I didn't even know Bruce Thornton was the all-time lead scorer at Ohio State. Right. It is, it is. And I didn't even know him until last week.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

Yeah, and so so when we grew up, we grew up in sort of the heyday of the of the Big East when the Big East was an incredible conference. And you know, and there were like everybody knew everything about college basketball. Not anymore. It just it's just not it's just not there. That said, though, the viewership among under, you know, interest in viewership among the under 30 crowd in college basketball, right? Really, really much higher than it used to be. So it is it is getting a younger audience, but and if you talk to anybody in their 20s who's kind of a sports fan, they'll know they'll know something about college basketball. They'll certainly know more than somebody like me about college basketball. And I, you know, I was a huge, I was a huge college basketball fan. When I applied to college, I only applied to schools that made the NCAA tournament. That was part of my those are that was one of my major criteria. I'm not kidding. I only applied to schools that made the NCAA tournament the year, you know, the year that I was applying or the year before I was applying. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

Yeah, who knew? See, the facts that you find out on this show are unbelievable.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

So seriously I took my uh you know, college admission process.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

Uh well, I only applied to once, so well, there you go. All right, let's move on to one of my favorite topics player performance pay in the National Football League. And here's what it is this started about 20 years ago, and when you compare the numbers 20 years ago to what they are now, it's really funny because 20 years ago, the biggest check was like a couple hundred thousand. But what it is is it's for it's really designed to give players who have outperformed their contract a bonus. And by outperforming your contract, it's really young players. In general, it's young players like third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh round picks who really who really haven't been paid yet. Uh there's a there's an MIT like formula that they put together that determines, you know, how much you've outplayed your contract based off of you know playing time and performance with that playing time and everything. And so you can get some veterans, you know, who are like on one-year deals, um, because a lot of people get it, but uh it's really designed to help those draft picks who are still on their rookie deal, who have clearly outperformed their contract to get paid. Because, you know, as a rookie in the NFL, basically you get a signing bonus, and first round people, their signing bonuses is you know, seven digits. So second round might be seven digits, you know, third, fourth, fifth round, it's you know, it could be six hundred thousand, you know, something like that. Uh, but whatever, it decreases every every uh round, you know. So, but here's the thing you get your signing bonus, but the salaries are almost always league minimum for draft choices. So if you're a seventh-round pick and you got a$200,000,$300,000 bonus, and then your base salaries are you know$700,000,$800, whatever, this can really help. And so it's always funny to me, or it's always interesting who's at the top of the list. And this time, the number one guy at the top of the list is a Chicago Bears cornerback named Naishon Wright. Now, he's a fairly anonymous player to most people, and most people on this list are fairly anonymous players unless it's your hometown team or your favorite team or whatever. But Nishon Wright is interesting. Why? Okay, I'll tell you because you don't know. Nation Wright is interesting because he was a third-round pick of your Dallas Cowboys. Oh, I didn't know that. So he got traded? No, he got cut because he wasn't any good. He was a classic case. Uh the Cowboys had the right idea. They really did. He's a he's a unique player. He's a cornerback who I think might have even played. No, I think he's a cornerback the whole time. But he's like 6'4, which is huge for a cornerback. Yeah, and he's got you know, arms, his arm, his wingspan is like ridiculous. Um, but in Dallas, he made a couple plays, but he got burnt more than he made plays, and he was a role player, he never started, and so when he got cut, nobody said, Oh my god, I can't. Well, what are they doing with Nature Wright? They was like, I knew he couldn't play, he hadn't done anything. But what happened is he went to Chicago, um, and the Cowboys had fired Al Harris, who's a really good secondary coach, and he went to Chicago, so he brought him with him. You know, once he gets a job, he signs him, and that dude blew up in Chicago. And then he was a good choice. And he, I don't know, he had five or six picks last year. I mean, he was a really good player, and so his base salary was 1.1 million, you know, fourth year rookie deal, third round pick out of Oregon State. His bonus, his player performance bonus, I believe, is 1.4 million. That's great. How about that? How'd you like to have a bonus that's that's uh trumps your salary?

SPEAKER_00 10:45

I I would uh I don't have a salary now, but uh, but yeah, that would be that would be good.

SPEAKER_01 10:51

Uh so that's incredible. So that's really what it's based on. Um, you said you had something very interesting.

SPEAKER_00 10:58

Well, I think it's just a couple things. Well, first of all, this to me is like what I think this is one of those rare times where I think the collective bargain agreement works for both the players and the owners.

SPEAKER_02 11:08

I would agree with that.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

Yeah, because the players, this is essentially this is a you know, this is an enforced market correction for both sides. So the players get paid what they probably are owed, and uh the owners um, you know, can keep can keep you know players for maybe a longer for a longer period of time, build build a team, and stay within the constraints of the salary cap because it's collectively bargained. So I think this is one of those times where this is this is a great thing. A couple of things that I thought were interesting. One of them is pretty funny, and the other ones, uh, you know, I look to see we we got a list of the top 25 uh performance-based pay distributions. Interesting is of the so these these ranked the bonuses in terms of the dollar amounts that you know, the the highest dollar amount was Nation right at 1.4 million, and then these are the top 25 dollar amounts. The 10 of the 25 positions that got these high performance bonuses were safeties, either free safety or strong safety, which is traditionally one of the most undervalued positions in the NFL.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

It is, and one of the reasons they got those bonuses is because it's an undervalued position, those guys are drafted later. At the end of every draft, because if you ever had the choice between taking a corner or taking a safety, you're always gonna take the corner because you say if the corner doesn't work out, there's a chance we can move them to safety. You're never ever moving a safety to corner. Uh, you know, there's a 1% chance you can move a safety to corner. But corners, we can make you a free safety. We can make we can do some things with you.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

So so I I thought that was I thought that was pretty interesting. The second position was uh seven of the 25 were guards. Again, another traditionally undervalued position in the NFL for the exact same reason the safeties. Yeah, the exact same reason. Now, what I thought don't look, but there's a guard who was who he was a guard who had the fifth highest performance for pay bonus, and he's he's a guard for the Washington Commanders, right? And you know what his name is.

SPEAKER_01 13:19

I have no guess and no clue.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

Chris Paul. So there's a guard named Chris Paul who got a performance bonus. Yeah, so he's number five. And we thought he retired, but who knew? He's now he's not a guard for the commanders, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 13:31

How about that?

SPEAKER_00 13:32

Yeah, Chris Paul.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

That was coming. I got blindsided by that one.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

Yeah, yeah, Chris Paul. I just I looked that up and I said, Oh, okay. But to your point, he was a seventh-round pick from Tulsa as as a guard, and those are the types of players who you know are the ones who are getting these performance for pay bonuses. And you know, and you look at it, it it makes a lot of sense because you've got 10 of the 25 top bonuses are safeties, seven are guards, four are linebackers. Again, linebacker position has also been devalued in the last 10 to 15 years as well.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Right, and that's because the game, it's really funny how the game has evolved. Um, when I was uh, let me see, I'm I'm trying to figure out how much to date myself. But there was a long period of time where if you said teams would build their teams based off of three positions, and I mean six positions. Running back, quarterback, these are not in order, but it was running back, quarterback, wide receiver, left tackle, cornerback, pass rusher. You're trying, those are the six best, six positions that you need studs at. And so I always used to say go back and look at the 95 Cowboys in their heyday at those six positions. Troy Aikman, Emmett Smith, Michael Irvin, Mark Touine was the left tackle who was a perennial Pro Bowl player. Charles Haley, uh Hall of Famer, was the pass rusher. Deion Sanders was cornerback for a couple years. Um, and then the other two Super Bowls, the cornerback was Kevin Smith. And most of y'all hadn't heard of Kevin Smith because Kevin Smith had the he had a good day, bad day situation that affected his career. On the same, because I'll never forget it, it was the first game of the 1995 season. Before the game, like it may have been Saturday, um, or it could have been, it was they were playing on Monday night. Sometime over the weekend, he signed a uh massive contract extension for for that time period. And then he tore his Achilles in the first game of the year against the Giants and he came back, but he was never ever the same player.

SPEAKER_00 15:44

Was he was his contract guaranteed at all, or only for that one year?

SPEAKER_01 15:48

No, he I mean he ended up playing. No, it was a long-term deal.

SPEAKER_00 15:51

Okay, good.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

So he ended up playing another five years, but if he had never gotten hurt with his Achilles like 30 years ago, you'd be talking about Kevin Smith like probably I don't know if he'd have been Hall of Famer, but you'd have been like, he's in the conversation for should he be a Hall of Famer? Because as a rookie in 1992, he's out there talking trash to Jerry Rice before the NFC Championship game.

SPEAKER_02 16:21

Right.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

One of those first plays in the game, he picks him up and you know, as a play away from the ball, picks him up and throws him out of out of bounds and just jumps in his face. Basically, it's the ultimate disrespect for the best receiver in the league because that's the way he played. And so you can just imagine as you mature as a player what he'd have been like.

SPEAKER_00 16:42

But anyway. But but now, but now but now the positions really are quarterback, left tackle, edge rusher. Those are probably the three.

SPEAKER_01 16:51

Those are the top three, and like I would say your running backs has been replaced, you know, whether it's by a slot receiver or whether it's by a tight end.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

Yeah, I would say wide receiver is probably four, you know.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

Yeah. Um, you know, then you then then you pass rusher and your corner. But um, it's the you know, the running back is the one that's kind of disappeared. The other one, but the the point of this is the game is played so much on the perimeter because you're trying to get out there to score touchdowns, and that's where you're putting up defensive people to stop those people who score touchdowns. And so the middle of the field with the guards, the centers, the linebackers, the safeties, that's why those are the lesser paid positions because it's the people on the outside that score touchdowns, not people on the inside.

SPEAKER_00 17:35

Yeah. See, we'll try to give you a little, we try to drop. Well, and that's also but that's also a reflection of the changing uh in in the rules in the NFL to try to encourage that kind of play. You know, and so so the changing of the rules has morphed the game into that and has morphed the valuable positions into something that's that's a bit different than it was a year ago. However, uh many years ago, however, it's still you need a quarterback, quarterback, a left tackle, and an edge or a pass rusher. Those are always the three. Right. And and now wide receiver has been it's almost wide receivers almost replaced what running back used to be in terms of value, maybe too.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

And that's why cornerbacks are in such high demand because you gotta have somebody who can cover those wide receivers.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

That's why you're such a big Daniel Jones fan.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

Yeah, right. Yeah, I'm still yeah, yeah. I know, I know you know.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

Keep in mind, Daniel Jones next year will make uh more than six, six, six teams combined in the WNBA, just so you know that. Stop it.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

Uh I was gonna say he won't be getting any performance play because it'd be impossible for him to outperform his contract.

SPEAKER_00 18:38

No matter what it's like, he's gonna have to give money back, I think is what's gonna happen, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:42

Now, the funny thing about performance play pay is like the Cowboys have a seventh round left tackle, Nate Thomas. And I think his performance play pay was like ten thousand dollars. And while to a normal everyday person, if you saw them and say, hey, here's a ten thousand dollar check, they'd be jumping up and down going, yeah, baby. Uh to an NFL guy is like, Oh, I got this ten thousand dollar check. Okay, maybe I'll take the wife out this weekend and uh and we'll go hang out somewhere. So um, bottom line, uh pay performance play, payer performance pay is one of the best things that the NFL has ever done. And it's uh it's good to see guys who haven't yet made the big money get some paper.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

Yeah, agree. Bottom bottom line for me one of the few times something in a collective bargaining agreement works for both sides, the players and for the owners.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

Now, you didn't think we'd let you get away this week without talking a little college basketball. Now, before we start, who is your favorite college basketball team of the last 30 or 40 years? Because we're dating ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 19:56

Oh, for me, it's gotta be. So I was at Duke. Uh I was at Duke the two years that they won a national title uh in the 90s. And uh so it was certainly that, it was certainly the team in you know 91-92 with you know Grant Hill, Bobby Hurley, uh Thomas Davis, Brian Davis, and of course your favorite player of all, your favorite college player of all time, Christian Leitner. And but it was but it was it was phenomenal. That's by far and away my favorite team. How about you?

SPEAKER_01 20:26

Dude, it pains me to say it. I was proud, my favorite teams, if I'm being honest. Uh it was proud, it was it was a tie between the giant the George Thompson Georgetown teams with Alan Iverson and uh Reggie Williams. Yeah, sure. And those guys. I hate to admit this for the Fab Five, man.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

Oh, I I gotta tell you, the Fab Five was if the Fab Five played Duke in one of the national championship games, that that was that's my second favorite team. Those are my two favorite teams in that area by far.

SPEAKER_01 21:01

Yeah, I usually have sports hate for Michigan, but the Fab Five was so cool. And I covered Jimmy King um when he was in Dallas playing high school, and I remember you know me. So I'm out there covering him. He played, he went to Plano East High School, which is a suburb about 20 miles north of Dallas. And so I'm I'm talking to him. I said, So hey man, where are you going to college? He goes, tell you the truth, man, I'm probably going to Michigan. I go, why in the world would you do that? And we had this long conversation. And dude, it went on to the point where he had been, you know, because he never played in the NBA. I mean, he had a cup of coffee a couple times. Right. But I'd see him around town, you know, every six or seven years. And be like, I still can't believe he went to Michigan, man. What's up with that? Do you feel like you like that was the best choice for you? I think you would have had a much better career in Ohio State. And so we we'd go back and forth for that every time I saw him for five or six years. Uh, and I just saw him. Not recently. For us, it's been uh I don't know, probably five or six years since I saw him. But uh we we always have a good Michigan Ohio State conversation when I see him.

SPEAKER_00 22:09

Well, but but I I think you know, for for people who are listening or watching, I mean, the Fab Five was kind of revolutionary in terms of it's a actually a fulcrum point uh in college basketball. It's before Fab Five and after Fab Five. It was it was a huge cultural significance. It was it was amazing personal it's five. Well, first of all, there are five freshmen playing or four freshmen playing. I forget exactly how many young guys playing. Their shorts were their shorts were long, they weren't short, they had you know the way they the way they shaved their heads, and I and it was a whole it was it was it was an incredible thing, and and you juxtapose that against you know Duke, which is the bluest of blue bloods. And right, right. It was it was an it was an amazing first of all, Duke destroyed them, but but but it was an amazing uh it was an amazingly cultural significant final in college basketball. Yeah, I can't imagine that happening today. That college a college basketball final would have even remotely that kind of cultural impact that it had in the 90s. No chance.

SPEAKER_01 23:20

And uh, and uh that got us to talk about this. There are eight coaches under 40 coaching teams in the NCAA tournament, which kicks off on uh, I mean, I guess if we call it a play-in game, it's already kicked off, but have a hard time counting those. Uh the real bracket starts on Thursday, and so it makes sense to me that college basketball, it's time for college basketball coaches to get younger. Because these older dudes, man, they can't they can't handle these new players. And they can't handle them not just, you know, they say, hey, kids want to be coached this way and that way. They can't handle them just from a strictly, it's it reminds me of when my when my parents would talk about they were growing up, and their coaches would be like, quit listening to that rock and roll junk and cut your hair, kid. We've we've moved to that point where they're like, get off your phone and social media and you know, and but that's that's how they grow up, that's what they do.

SPEAKER_00 24:20

Yeah, but I think I think the reason they're moving to young coaches is because uh they don't cost as much. Okay, so I think you're right. I think that's right. I think there's a generational issue, they're also a lot cheaper. Uh, college basketball programs uh they generate some money, but not big money. They have to really be concerned about their costs, right? Pay a young coach.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

Yeah, it is. No, they're yeah, you know, sometimes it can be as simple as we just don't want to pay the pay that much. And I think you're you're seeing if you can get a bargain because ultimately you got to pay them to keep them. Um, but um I can see how why would I pay why would I pay a marginal guy eight million dollars a year if I can pay a young guy two million dollars a year or 1.5.

SPEAKER_00 25:06

And I can take that five or six million and get better players if you you know I know the test.

SPEAKER_01 25:10

That's the other element.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

Yeah, the accounting doesn't work that way necessarily, but if I'm if I'm a university, I'm buying the players, I'm not buying the coach. You had to buy the coach before. Now you don't have to buy the coach nearly as much. You gotta buy the players.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

Okay, but check this out. I don't disagree with that, but you can't have a million-dollar coach. Well, you can have it in the NBA. I don't know if you can have it in college, you can't have a million-dollar coach and three players making four, you know, making two and a half million, and the coach tries to tell them something, and they go, let's look at let's compare checks, Pottman.

SPEAKER_00 25:44

Yeah, well, but listen, I think that is that's why the NBA coach has never been at the same level as a college coach because of exactly the because of the power dynamic. And let's face it, the power dynamic in college basketball has changed. You know, it's a it's a player-driven, it's a much more player-driven uh game now than it ever was. And players can assess their worth, and players can move freely and make money wherever they want to go. So, you know, the older coaches are not used to a system like that where they were essentially, you know, they were the most in certain campuses, they were the most important person on the entire campus. That's not happening anymore.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

No, it's um it's uh it's uh it's interesting to me because uh when you when you I think it's all about you're looking for the perfect mix because you need somebody who can relate to today's athlete. Because today's athlete is not anything like you know the athlete from 20 years ago or 25 years ago. Um today's athlete, you know, wants to do a TikTok in the locker room, uh, wants to paint his fingernails blue or orange or purple or whatever, um, you know, wants to uh go live on Instagram after the game. Uh, you know, and it's to me, it's all part of their culture. And so you have to understand, you have to, if you try to relate to kids, because the way they play for you is they relate to you or they respect you enough to do what you ask them to do.

SPEAKER_02 27:13

Right.

SPEAKER_01 27:13

You got to figure out some way to meet them where they are, so at least you can understand what they're all about. Because if you don't understand what they're all about, just as people, you can never reach them as a coach. And you just can't say, uh, get off your phone. You have to understand, like they're not getting off their phone because that's literally everything that's important in their life is in this is on the phone, yeah. Is on the phone, whether it's texting their mom or their girlfriend or just whatever. The homework is on everything's on the phone. So you have to figure out how to work with them and get with them and meet with them. And I think you have a lot better chance of doing that when you got a 40-year-old coach uh whose kids are like that than you do a 65-year-old coach who's on his way out.

SPEAKER_00 28:02

Yeah, I think it's I think it's it's a and you're you saw that in college football. You're seeing a lot of older coaches, well, the you're seeing a lot of change in coaching from those who are used to working in the older system and those who are more comfortable working in the newer system. Some some older coaches who didn't get a chance early in their career are more comfortable working in you know the newer system. But by and large, for the college basketball coaches, you you don't need to pay a college basketball coach that much because you know and I know that 18 to 22-year-olds, if you got better players, you're gonna win by and large. You know, you may not win the national title, but you're gonna win plenty of games and plenty of people are gonna come to your program. You don't need uh that kind of coach. That said, the opportunity now is or where college basketball is moving, is getting what I would call the B plus players to play for four years because they can get paid more in college. The A players are still gonna leave after a year because they can pay, they can get paid more in the NBA. So basketball is becoming a game, uh, college basketball is becoming a game. A lot of the older B plus players um are having more of an impact now.

SPEAKER_01 29:19

Now, check this out. I think that makes the game better because it provides the continuity. And I, you know, we talked about this probably last week, I think. In college sports, you end up rooting for the name on the front of the jersey.

SPEAKER_03 29:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

Um, you know, it's tribal. All right. So um, yes, uh, you can root for your team if you if you see uh Bill Smith evolve as a player from freshman to sophomore to junior. But more importantly, Bruce Thornton. More importantly, your players will be better, your team will be better if it has that kind of that kind of continuity. And so, yeah, you if you're not if you're not gonna be a first-round pick in the NBA, uh, you might as well stay and make a million dollars or$750,000, whatever$500,000, whatever it is in college, because you ain't making that in the NBA. Plus, you enhance your game and make your game better. And the thing about basketball is, and I just saw this um last week, is you know, we can forget it sometimes if you're not really in it. It's an international game. So the fact that you can't play in the NBA doesn't mean anything. You can go make money playing Europe, dude. You know who this guy's a I don't know. Okay, let me look it up on my phone where he's playing. But this guy's like they showed me some. I saw some highlights of this guy on TikTok yesterday. I mean last week, and it was like he was Shaq. Who's that? Uh I'm trying to figure out where he's playing. I know his name, it's JaVale McGee.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

Oh, I love JaVale McGee.

SPEAKER_01 30:57

He was he was dealing, maybe he's let me see if I can find real quick.

SPEAKER_00 31:02

Well, but but what's interesting about it, you know, as I think about it more, if you have players who are gonna stay for four years, which you do now, and and I think actually that's where they're gonna make the most money, they're gonna be they're gonna be amenable to coaching more because they know that that's where they're gonna make their most money. They've only got a finite number of years. So you're not gonna need, you know, this disciplinarian coach, this iconic coach, a young coach who can just kind of coach them will be okay. So I think this is the more I think about it, you know, to your point, the young guys who need somebody to relate to who are the star players, the young coach works better, and the guys who are gonna be there three or four years, they're gonna be eminently coachable because they know that is their big chance of making money in their life, and they're gonna listen to anybody.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

So uh I'm sorry, Jail is playing for the Beijing Ducks. But he was out there looking like Shaq, man. I mean, he was he was driving the ball. I mean, he was and again, you forget, just because you can't play in the NBA, doesn't mean you can't you can't go to some other league in the world and be like Stefan uh Marberry, you know, he left the NBA. I mean, he he played, must have played 12, 15 years in uh in uh China, I believe.

SPEAKER_02 32:16

Yeah, in China.

SPEAKER_01 32:17

I mean he's like a I mean he's like a superstar in China. He is. Um, you know, so all of that to me is why, you know, if you if if you're not going to be an NBA star, then just stay in college, have your business, and uh and make the money there, and either stack it or hone your game so that when you're ready to to leave and go play overseas or internationally, uh you can do that.

SPEAKER_00 32:44

Yeah, I I I think that's right. And and so anyway, the bottom line for me is that these young coaches who aren't making as much money, that's gonna be here for a while. The coaches who stay for 40 years and have develop this huge uh you become these huge icons and become pillars of the institution or or reflections of the institution, that's not gonna happen as much anymore.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

And the bottom line for me is I think it's great that we got young coaches in there because they can understand what makes these young guys tick. And to me, that's the best thing for the game, the coaches, and the players. All right. That's that time we've all been waiting for. It's Ohio State time. Ohio State Sports. Matt Patricia paid three and a half million dollars a year, three-year deal. Um, I wasn't excited when he showed up. I thought he did a terrific job last year, although the defense bailed out and didn't didn't take advantage, didn't do its thing in the two most important drives of the year.

SPEAKER_00 33:46

Well, I was gonna say he did they did they did all they did really well, except for the times that it really counted. Yeah, yeah. But I don't want to be that Ohio State fan, but that's the reality.

SPEAKER_01 33:54

Yeah, right. I didn't want to be what again, I like to deal in reality, not what I want reality to be. Uh that being said, uh, I'm interested to see what he does this year because it's not that he won't, you know, you don't have Caleb Downs running things for you. You're coach on the field. So can you find another guy to be your coach on the field? Or um, you know, having been in the system now for a year, you've got kids who can now come in and pick it up uh because they've been in it for a year.

unknown 34:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

Because now the standard is so high, bro, that you're like, hey, y'all gave up 14 points. What's wrong with y'all? Which is insane.

SPEAKER_00 34:32

Right, right. And also the other teams have a year of film to study Matt Patricia, which they didn't have when they when they started a year ago. Uh, and Ohio State's schedule is a lot tougher. They're facing a lot better quarterbacks or quarterbacks who, you know, uh your your boy Arch Manning is uh you know a year a year older. I'm still I'm still not sold on Arch Manning. Yeah, but but I don't have to be better than he was last year.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

Yes, that would be true. And he was trash last year. Yeah. In that game.

SPEAKER_00 35:07

In that game. Yeah, but but but but but I think the uh I think Ohio State's gonna have a much more difficult year this year. I don't think the defense is gonna be nearly as good because you don't have a you don't have the physical quality of the players, you don't also have, I think you had like some of the smartest players playing at Ohio State that we've seen in years, too. And I so can you replace them? Maybe because at the beginning of last year, nobody knew that this would be they could replace the you know the defense from the year before. Uh I have I have extremely lowered my I've I've lowered my expectations for how the defenses are going to perform next year because the quality of their opponents are better, and I think it's just very unlikely that they can replace two years in a row a defense that is has been so good.

SPEAKER_01 35:55

But they should be, but hopefully they can be a better offensive team next year. Because I didn't think when it's all said and done, you look back at it, I didn't think they were a dynamic offense last year. They had dynamic offensive players, but they were not a dynamic offense. Now, you could say they were like that because they were playing to the defensive strength, and so they didn't have to be, hey, don't screw the game up. At some point, we'll score enough, and our defense will do the thing. And uh, you know, so you have that, but with um, you know, everything that they've if they they've got it, here's the deal, and this is as this is as basic as football gets. Ohio State, as much as I love my buckeyes, they're always at their best. Always at their best when they got a badass running back and a badass running game. Because for the under the Ryan Day era, they always got these wide eyes. All right. So when they when they compare a running back with it, a dynamic back, not just a good back, but somebody who can take it to the house when you make a mistake, then they become really dynamic on offense because you have to respect the passing game. But it and this is no knock on Bo Jackson because Bo Jackson had a really good freshman season. Nobody was scared that Bo Jackson was going to take it 75 yards or you might go 35, but okay, now you got your 35. Let's reset and play the series again. When you got those guys that can go 75 and 80 and 60 on you, it just changes the whole dynamics because if if you have a misfit and they break it, well, howl at you, they're about to kick off.

SPEAKER_00 37:27

Well, I I think there's that. I think there was two problem they had a number of problems last year on offense. That they did not have a home run hit or a running back. I think that's correct. The other thing, too, is that they didn't really have anybody who could pick up any short yardage, you know. So you didn't have a quarterback who could run. You kind of had that transfer from West Virginia who kind of played that role for the first couple of games and didn't really play much for the rest of the year. Uh you didn't have Judkins who could just you needed a yard to just hand it to Judkins the year before, or Will Howard, you know, did a quarterback sneak. No, you don't have that, you know. And you so Ohio State had sort of four to five plays or four to five drives this year that could have dramatically changed their season.

SPEAKER_01 38:11

They were at Indiana one twice, I think.

SPEAKER_00 38:13

They they should have beaten Indiana easily, you know. It wasn't it, uh maybe not easily, but they should have beaten Indiana and they choked, you know, from my point of view. They I no choke choke is strong word. They were not comfortable making any short yardage plays, they just couldn't do it. Yeah, and that and that caused them to miss one fourth down and then kick a field goal in which they missed. Um, but if they were able to pick up short yardage plays, they they very likely would be national champions.

SPEAKER_01 38:39

I think all of that goes back to also goes back to your offensive line. Your offensive line has to be better. Um, it doesn't matter if you got all these toys if your offensive line can't push people around and can't dominate. And so, you know, and I I like to say this a lot when we're talking to when I'm talking to my friends about various things, or we're talking about the Cowboys sometimes or whatever, we'll go, you're nitpicking greatness, although that really doesn't come up with Cowboys that often. So, you know, you're nitpicking greatness, but what it is is, you know, think about as good as Ohio State's been, uh, especially over the last two or three years or whatever, you know, you're seeing all these skilled people go in the draft high, you're seeing all these defensive players, you haven't seen a lot of offensive linemen go. Very true. That's it, ain't sexy, but that's what it's about. You gotta have movers up front. You ain't gotta have a lot of them, but you gotta have the one guy which say, okay, third and one, you know we're running behind pink, we know we're running behind pink, and frankly, there's nothing you can do about it. We're running behind pink. You gotta have that road grader, man. And you gotta develop him, you gotta get him, you gotta pay him. You have to get that guy on third and one you can run behind and get a first down. And your quarterback, as good as he was, would light an ass. He's probably 170 last year. And in big time college football, man. He's too small. He's too small to sneak it.

SPEAKER_00 40:06

And so you know uh that just is what it is. Yeah, all right. So so as you look at the NCAA tournament, Buckeyes open against who? Texas Tech, I think. Who they open against? TCU. TCU. All right, I know.

SPEAKER_01 40:20

TCU, which is sneaky good because they got uh Jamie Dixon, who was a really good coach at Pitt for a long time. Uh now I don't respect TCU, even though they're 25 miles from my house.

SPEAKER_00 40:31

Uh Buckeyes make it out of the first round. If they do, they'll likely play.

SPEAKER_01 40:36

You know what? Uh in Sports Talk Radio, they they they just described Ohio State the same way I described TCU. So it's the reason why those guys are are both eight, nine seeds. Um, should be a great game. But I believe in Bruce Thornton, baby. Yeah, we should get outside, and then you've got a decision to make. It's not a decision. Buckeyes or Duke?

SPEAKER_00 40:57

Oh no, it's it's that man's no decision to make. No, no, it's it's uh it's Ohio State every time. It's not it's not even it's not even a decision. I I'm uh yeah, I'm an Ohio State fan for every sport first. Oh look, so finally, right at the end of the podcast, the light goes away, you know? So uh which is good. So I apologize for the light being just miserable. Actually, probably good, right? You can't see me. Um, but yeah, no, I like uh um I I do think I think the two best teams this year are, and they're well well, here's a couple things about the NCAA tournament. One, I think I think Ohio State TC, I was thinking Texas, Texas Tech is on the is in one of the other brackets. They're a good looking team too. But right, uh, but TCU, Ohio State, I don't think it's gonna matter because I think that the top of college basket college basketball has become so top heavy. Yeah I don't think there's gonna be that many upsets this year. And really, yeah, and I think that you may have a few in the early rounds, and but it's gonna be kind of like last year where the number one seeds made it. I think there's really five teams that can win it, the four number one scenes and probably Yukon. And and I think and it's not because it's Michigan, I think Michigan's a very weak number one seed uh this year, and I think Yukon's probably better. Um, or St. John's is pretty good. Those two teams look pretty good this year, but um, but that's it. So I think the only teams that can really win it that I think really have the best chances are Florida, uh Duke, and Arizona. And I think Florida, if you look at the way Florida's played in the last you know part of the season, I think I think Florida is without question the team to be. Really?

SPEAKER_02 42:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:39

I'll take your word for it because I haven't seen a part of it. So um yeah, but but yeah, it'll be fun. I I'll see if if Ohio State plays Duke in the second round, um that'll be good. That'll be interesting.

SPEAKER_01 42:52

I think what are they playing?

SPEAKER_00 42:55

I don't have any idea. Oh, okay. I'm not you know, it's amazing when I think about it because when I was growing up or in my twenties, I would have known every intimate detail of college basketball anymore. I just don't anymore.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

That's what happens, man. You get older, you care about different stuff, like like I don't know what, but it ain't this.

SPEAKER_00 43:18

It's not college basketball, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:20

No, no. So we appreciate it. Hey, we uh don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review five stars only. We reject anything less than that, and uh we'll talk to you soon. He's Jeremy Pink. I'm John Jacques Taylor. This has been the bottom line on sports.

SPEAKER_00 43:35

All right, thanks a lot. Thanks everybody. Have a good week.