Knicks-Spurs TV Ratings Juggernaut, Outrageous World Cup Ticket Prices and Ohio State Receivers

00-16:  NBA Finals TV Ratings Juggernaut
16-29:  Outrageous World Cup Ticket Prices
29-47:  Ohio State Receivers

#nba #nbafinals #knicks #spurs #fifa #worldcup #worldcuptickets #ohiostatefootball #ohiostate 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:05

What's up, everybody? Welcome to yet another episode of the Bottom Line on Sports, our show about the intersection between sports and money. And you know, we like to start every show with a number.

SPEAKER_00 0:17

The number this week is the number this week is 580,000, and it has to do with the Knicks Spurs series.

SPEAKER_03 0:26

What about the Knicks Spurs series?

SPEAKER_00 0:28

580,000 more people watched game one of the Knicks Spurs NBA final uh series than watched game seven of the OKC and your Indiana Pacers from last year.

SPEAKER_03 0:44

You know what? I can see that because you got the Knicks who are uh, you know, for purposes of this discussion, Americans team. You have the Spurs who have a strong following from their previous regimes of success, plus they got the NBA's most fascinating player in Victor Wimbanna. Uh so that doesn't surprise me. Plus, you got Oklahoma City, and don't ever call them my Indiana Spur Pacers. Uh, you got two small markets, two boring teams. Um, so that I I ain't really gonna, I'm not tripping. That number doesn't really even surprise me.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

But 580,000 more than a game seven of an NBA final?

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Yeah, because the Knicks are that big and Wimby's that big.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

I mean Wimby is big, that's true.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

Yeah, he's tall too. He's tall, he's big, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:32

But I think when you put those together, you know, people have been the Knicks are not the Cowboys, they're not the Lakers, they're not the Celtics. Uh they're the Knicks team under in terms of tiers, in terms of fan base, and what makes people tune in. And so right now, though, since we're not playing football, the Knicks are the top, uh, what do you call it? The topic of America. Like all the sports debate shows, all the talk shows, they're starting the conversation with something about the Knicks. They're not even starting them about the Spurs, they're starting them about the Knicks and what the Knicks gotta do, and Jalen Brunson this and Magistra Square Guard that, and who's on Celebrity Row, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Oh, and yeah, Victor Wimbanyana and the Spurs are doing their thing too. But it's all about the Knicks right now. And uh the Knicks are driving all the conversation. What are we talking about right now? We're talking about the Knicks.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Talking about the Knicks. But but I think I think the viewership is about NBA viewership is about a number of things. It's about star players and it's about marquee franchises. Those two things really drive those two things really, those two things really drive the viewership. And I and I think actually Wemby transcends the typical NBA fan.

SPEAKER_03 2:44

Yes. Wimby is like the Super Bowl. Nine basketball people tune in to say, I heard there's a 7-4 French guy who trained with some monks this offseason and trained with some Navy SEALs at some point. Is he playing? I need to check this guy out. So yeah, I I think you're I think there's a uh a huge who is this Wimby guy factor. Um yeah, I I don't think I think that's big. And then the Knicks, uh, the Knicks are the pre-eminent franchise in the NBA right now. And they're still playing. And you know, um, the Knicks are the Knicks. And it's been this will be like this. Check this out now. It'll be like this. You know what I'm about to say.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

I think so.

SPEAKER_03 3:26

If the Cowboys ever get to the mountaintop again.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

Oh, yeah. We don't we well that's not gonna happen, so we don't really need to discuss that. But at some point it will.

SPEAKER_03 3:34

But the question is, will we still be alive when it happens? Because it's been fit, you know, the Knicks won their championship in 19 what 70?

SPEAKER_00 3:42

1973.

SPEAKER_03 3:43

73. I was six years old. At some point, and my uncle was a huge Knicks fan. Uh he was uh and I know this because he was an artist. We were living in Buffalo at the time when I was six years old. He came to hang out with us because everybody comes and lives with their older siblings at some point if you have younger siblings. And he was an artist, and one of the drawings he made was what? Walt Clyde Fraser. He did a pencil drawing of him, of Frazier's at the free throw line, real tight shot of him, and it hung on our wall forever. Oh, I didn't know that. And so that's how I know he's a big Knicks fan. Yeah, um, but there was somebody who said, Oh, the Knicks won a championship, baby.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

Don't worry about that t-shirt, man. When they go next year, we'll get one.

SPEAKER_03 4:31

Well, it's been 53 years, and that's why you see all these New Yorkers going crazy about their team and you know just going wild. Yeah, because they're anticipating a championship that I hope they they get, but you never know.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

Yeah, it reminds me, it reminds me very much of when the Rangers won the uh Stanley Cup in the in, what was it, '94, I think they won the Stanley Cup or whatever, whenever it was. Uh, because the Rangers hadn't won the Stanley Cup forever. You you sort of had this almost the exact same kind of reaction. The other thing about this Knicks team that I think actually helps them is I think they're pretty likable. Unlike a lot of Yankees, for example, the Yankees teams were never as likable as this Knicks team. But the Knicks team, there's a pretty likable group of people. You got a small, the smallest guy, Jalen Brunson, is the biggest star. Their biggest player is kind of a, you know, is kind of a thoughtful, sweet kind of guy.

SPEAKER_03 5:30

I was gonna say kind of a uh cerebral dude.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

Yeah, cerebral, good guy. Uh it's a very likable the coach is kind of quiet behind the scenes.

SPEAKER_03 5:40

Uh not combative with the media.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

Yeah, not combative. Uh, it's it's a very unusual New York team that actually is far more likable than other New York teams.

SPEAKER_03 5:51

That's a uh I like one of my favorite words. That's a very salient point right there. Um, and I think that helps. Um, you know, I think it helps. I think it also helps that uh you got the three guys from Villanova with the championship background, and so people are kind of familiar with them if you follow basketball because you know that they won a championship uh several years ago. And so I think the Knicks are a good story uh for all those reasons you mentioned. And people, you know, the Olympics, and you know this because you've been you did broadcasting for so many years. The Olympics put up such big numbers, not because anybody cares about the uh biathlon or any of these other these other sports, they care about the stories and the people involved. Of course, and the Knicks have good stories right now, just like the Spurs have good stories. Yeah, and when you have good stories, uh kind of iconic uh league franchises, that's why they did the numbers that they did and they uh trumped so much game seven last year.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Yeah, well, it's interesting. Games game one and game two each are 90% above the game one and game two of the the year before. So they're they're trending really, really high, the numbers. And we're we're taping this on a Tuesday night, so we we only have numbers from games one and two. What also is important is that this is the first year of the NBA's new broad media deal.

unknown 7:10

Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

Because if you remember last year, you kind of knew where all the games were. No one has any idea where any of the games are this year, right? But that's the the reason no one has any idea where the games are is because it's a new media deal, and there's there's you know different different partners and different distributions. TNT doesn't have games this year. And on sort of on an annual basis, the rates went up uh uh two almost three times what they were. So the rates are about used to be before this deal were about 2.6, 2.7 billion. Now the annual rights are roughly 6.9 billion. So nearly three times the the rights fees went up. This could not have happened at a better time for the NBA or the broadcast partners.

SPEAKER_03 7:51

No, it's uh it's what you need for uh continued economic growth. That's why you always want your best teams to win and you want your biggest stars and your biggest media markets if you can help it. And if not, then you want them to be a team like San Antonio, which is not a huge media market, but has a you know, it's been basically a championship caliber franchise for most of the last 25-30 years. So people are used to them winning and used to them being a uh a relevant NBA team, and that makes up for their lack of uh media market, I think. You know, and um you know, Oklahoma City's probably getting like that the longer that they stay a relevant team and a championship caliber team.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

You know who loves this more than anybody else, these ratings? Loving this ratings.

SPEAKER_03 8:33

Who that Adam Silver?

SPEAKER_00 8:34

The NFL. Because the NFL is now saying, uh-huh. We're thinking about renegotiating our media rights right now, too. In fact, they're starting to talk about it, and they're saying, well, the NBA media rights jumped nearly three times. The NBA, in terms of viewership, is nothing compared to the NFL. Right. Look what the NBA is getting. Look at Premier Sports products and the viewership that they command. Right. Hey, we're the NFL, we should be able to do this too. I think it's a really important thing to watch because I do think the NFL will use this as a bargaining chip as they look to renegotiate their media deals.

SPEAKER_03 9:11

Oh, ain't no doubt. They they will use anything and everything. And this uh this seems to be right in their wheelhouse uh in terms of uh you know where they can start negotiations because the NFL is uh is loyal to no one but their own pocketbooks.

SPEAKER_04 9:27

That's that's right.

SPEAKER_03 9:29

And uh watch, and here's my big prediction coming down the road, and we'll talk about it another day. Friday night has always been sacred because it's high school Friday night. Nah, brother, that'll be gone in within five years.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

Right. That'll probably be the the that'll be done at the same time that there's an 18th game, also. Yeah, you know, that's all that's all that's all coming to the bike. So who do you so I I had texted you in during game one, I think, that I thought the Knicks were gonna after watching it for like the first couple quarters, I thought the Knicks were gonna sweep. Um, still think the Knicks are gonna win the series. Who do you think is gonna win the series? It's two one right now as we tape this. Um two-one Knicks right now as we tape.

SPEAKER_03 10:08

You know, uh, I thought the Knicks now see I didn't say anything because I didn't say it publicly. I had always thought the Knicks were going to win the series, uh, but I thought they had to win it in six, since seven would be in San Antonio. Um and so I still think they'll win it in six, but it's a little dicey because yes, they were up 2-0, but it's not like they dominate, it's not like they ran away with both games. You all that was a very they won them, so they get credit, they get all the credit. Uh but the games could have gone either way. So it really feels like a seven-game series to me. Um and if it's a seven-game series, you know. Uh I think the Knicks could win in seven, but you know, I think for now, as I vacillate and go back and forth and waffle, that uh I think the Knicks will get it done in six, but it's gonna be a very taut, tenuous six.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

Yeah, I it it's it's funny because before the series started, I was like Spurs in six. Literally watched the first half of the first game, and I said, Spurs aren't gonna win the series. And I still think that. Uh, and I, you know, I thought that I thought the Knicks were gonna sweep. And at halftime yesterday, I thought it was a genius, you know, because the Knicks were up seven uh in game three. Uh, but I still think the Knicks will win in the Knicks should Knicks will win in five. If they don't win in five, it means they'll it's a better story if they win in six, so they win on uh win in the five. Why don't you believe in thirds? You know, it's I I just think it's like uh I think it's a little bit early for them. Sort of traditionally, why I think a lot of people don't believe in them yet. I think it's a little bit early for them. And I think they're gonna be great potentially in in the future. I think it's tough. Uh I think it's I think it's tough to win. I think they were they were kind of bailed out in game three, I think, by some, you know, uh a couple a couple of shots uh down the stretch. Uh one of uh Fox's jumper in the lane and Castle sort of bail out three-pointer. That's the only reason. I thought for sure they were gonna lose that game last night, even in the last uh two and a half minutes. And I and I think that everything had to go wrong for the Knicks in this series. In this game, Towns didn't show up. Brunson missed all the shots that he would normally hit. I think so many things went wrong for the Knicks, and they still probably could have uh won the game. I thought the I thought the Spurs are they're just they're young and old, they'll choke away uh another lead or two uh for the rest of the series, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_03 12:49

Now, here's uh here's an interesting theory that's been floating around. Uh I don't know how much he's gotten to the masses, and so I don't know if it's been to New York yet, but here's a theory floating around that Brunson has to share the ball more because even though now see here's the difference because it's a nuanced point. Like Aaron I Allen Iverson was a scorer. He wasn't necessarily efficient, but he's a scorer. I get you a bucket when you need a bucket. Jalen Brunson to me falls into the same category. He's not as dynamic a scorer as Alan Iverson, but he's a scorer. So he's always going to have a high volume of shots to match his points because of the degree of difficulty on the shots and all this other stuff. But do you think he's shooting too much? Uh, I don't buy into Stephen A's theory, which is he wants to be the MVP, but I just think I buy into another theory though, which is he's a little man proving that I on the biggest stage I can do it with the best of them.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

I I think there's I think there's certainly something to that. Uh but I also believe pretty strongly that if you watched the Knicks run closely at all, they were at their best when the offense ran through Carl Anthony Towns. And for whatever reason, in game three, you know, it Brunson reminded me, not the same, but it reminded me of you know uh the old Carmelo Anthony days where Carmelo Anthony was the the quintessential ball stopper. You know, it went in his hands and that that was it. And I don't think Brunson's like uh Carmelo at all that way, but that's essentially what happened. They didn't get into their offense until six or seven seconds left on the shot clock. And I think they have I think it's there's that. The other thing, too, is that he's a little guy. Um whether he gets worn down or not, I don't know because he hasn't played that much in the last month, so it's hard to say. But um they're picking him up full court, they got bigger players on him. I think that his overall usage rate probably needs to be less, and uh, I think they have to flow through uh Kat. Uh the offense should flow through Kat. I think they'll be a lot better. They've been a lot better that way in the last you know month or two.

SPEAKER_03 15:02

Right. So it's just an interesting thing to watch, and so we'll see. So, bottom line for me, the Knicks will still get it done in uh six, uh, but they'll have even more viewers uh over the next four games. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:17

But bottom bottom line for me is uh stars like Wemby and star franchises like the Knicks are what's gonna drive viewership, and which is what will always drive viewership for for the NBA.

SPEAKER_03 15:31

The World Cup starts Thursday. I'm excited. I love soccer. And I don't care how many goals they score, if it's an up and down game. If people are attacking, it can be a beautiful one-nothing game, just like a one-nothing hockey game can be fantastic if people are playing the right way. It could also be like watching Pink Dry if the other team is scared and they they don't really attack and they want to play 11 back on defense.

SPEAKER_00 15:59

The group, the group stage games are a little bit tricky. They have more of a tendency to be not particularly interesting because they're not.

SPEAKER_03 16:10

Yeah, I don't want to mess up and not get you know against a bad team so conservatively. Um, you know, so I'm hoping the games will be good, but I I love the World Cup, I love soccer. Uh I own two video games, one is college football, the other is FIFA 26. There you go. I do not like playing John, I do not like playing Madden uh NFL football for personal reasons. Okay, I'll tell you what the personal reason is. I know you're you're curious. Way back when, like 15 years ago, I like to play the franchise mode where you build a team up. I like to I don't like to really play online because people are goofy, right? And I was playing, and this is 15 years ago, so the AI is much better now. But it just I looked up one year in the franchise mode and Peyton Manning had been traded to somebody, and I was just like, he's Peyton Manning. You wouldn't trade Peyton Manning. And Randy Moss was playing somewhere. I go, you know what, this is just dumb. I can't even get into this. And so I quit playing. That's why I like college football because the rosters turn over all the time anyway, so you never get attached to one player this or there. Uh I said it was my own personal grievance, and it didn't make sense to me. And so that's why I quit playing Madden. Uh, but I love soccer, I love playing FIFA, and uh, we got a great draw in Dallas, and I was trying to figure out like I'm not paying an exorbitant amount for tickets, but if I thought I could I could do the Brooklyn Next strategy and show up right before kickoff and get a ticket, because it'd just be me. I would do that. Yeah, um, I'm not sure I'm going to do that, but I'm going to poke around and see if it's can if I consider it. Because I went to a game with last time it was in the States, uh, they played in Dallas. I went to watch Ghana play, no, Nigeria play, the flying the Super Eagles. And it was fun, just the atmosphere because they're fan. You know, when you go, it's just, you know, those those teams that are playing are bringing their culture with them.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

Most most important event in the country by far.

SPEAKER_03 18:15

Right. It's like it's like the Super Bowl to them on steroids.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

Huge event.

SPEAKER_03 18:20

So they're bringing their culture with them.

SPEAKER_02 18:22

So however they act at home when they're watching the game, they're doing that in the stands, and it is why.

SPEAKER_03 18:28

And that's what makes it fun because you get to really sample the culture, especially whatever side you're sitting on, primarily. Uh, and it is wild. So the Nigerians and the Super Eagles were banging a drum and just having a blast uh when they were here, and that must have been 20 years ago.

SPEAKER_00 18:45

You know, I I I'm I'm not as big of a soccer fan, but I love the World Cup for a whole bunch of reasons. It was one of the first things I ever did in TV was a World Cup. Uh but what I do really dislike, I dislike two things. I listen, I dislike many things and many things.

SPEAKER_03 19:00

I was gonna say, you dislike more than two things.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

Yeah, but there's two things related to soccer that I I really dislike. One is I dislike really high ticket prices. And number two is I just dislike FIFA. And uh this is the perfect storm for that because FIFA has introduced this year into the World Cup dynamic pricing, kind of like Uber, you know, at popular times the price goes up, at unpopular times the price goes down. However, it appears unsubstantiated. I don't know if it's true. It appears, however, that they are constraining supply in certain cases also.

SPEAKER_03 19:42

Does that mean is that a fancy way for saying they're trying to artificially raise the prices?

SPEAKER_00 19:46

Who knows? Who knows? That's what it appears, but who knows? But what is how FIFA has structured it is that every ticket that goes, every to every buyer and reseller, they get a 15% cut on. So any anytime anybody buys a ticket, FIFA gets a 15% cut on the price. Anytime anybody sells that ticket, so they get 15% on either end, which essentially is pushing off the inventory risk onto the buyers and sellers and into the secondary market while simultaneously controlling the tickets and the and the supply of tickets. And I know this because we've been talking about it this week is I'm gonna be in LA this weekend, and I want to go to the USA Paraguay game, which is happens to be Friday night in Inglewood at SoFi. It's one of the I actually have the night free I can go. And I've been watching ticket prices this week, just this is sort of an experiment for me because I don't want to pay a lot for tickets. And my this and $3 will get you a cup of coffee. So this is my my anecdote here is that I see the ticket prices that are hovering between they've they've really hugged the least expensive ticket prices have hovered between about 870 and 1,000. You know, they've been they've been about there, right? But what I've noticed over the last couple of days is that the prices have stayed roughly the same, but the quality of seats have gotten better. And it just it just makes me think there's something artificial going on or something that doesn't feel right to me about traditional supply and demand for this market. So, like getting Brooklyn Nets tickets where you show up like two hours before the game and the ticket price is plunge. Uh I'm gonna try that strategy with USA Paraguay on Friday because it appears that there's still a tremendous number of unsold tickets or tickets that are sitting in the secondary markets still, and it's three days before the match. That's my that's my theory.

SPEAKER_03 21:52

Now, the other thing is because you would think you you would think with it being the US, the tickets would be gobbled up like gone.

SPEAKER_00 21:59

It's The tickets are getting purchased, but the good seats are getting purchased. You know, and those those you can probably you know keep up the you know keep up the demand for for that, or there's the but but because people who have enough money to pay for these seats are gonna get the better seats. It's now sort of the last three to five thousand. And again, this is my unofficial analysis. No one's been able to kind of figure this out because FIFA's in control of this. My unofficial analysis makes me think that there's kind of this 3,000, 4,000 tickets that are out there that are overpriced and that are gonna come down that are gonna come down in price. That's what I believe is gonna happen.

SPEAKER_03 22:41

Well, what's the uh like we we spend a whole lot of time talking about the get in price uh for Knicks games? What's the get in price? What are what are tickets ranging at uh for for FIFA and for the US?

SPEAKER_00 22:54

US U.S paragraph? Well, you can get the get-in price is probably now I would say $850 to $900. You can probably get in at the low end. What's the top of what's the top of the high end? I you know, I've seen the high end, it's all over the place on the high end because some of them are just artificially high. But I think if if you really want to get a halfway decent ticket, you're looking at you know, three to four grand, would be my guess at this point.

SPEAKER_03 23:18

That's a lot for for opening.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

It seems like it seems like a lot. Uh and it may it may very well be what the price is, but there's a lot of tickets in the marketplace in the secondary markets for sale.

SPEAKER_03 23:31

I was gonna say it sounds like it's going down.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

Uh it may or may not, or there may be, or, or it might be like an auction where people wait until the last minute to bid and it could go up later. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 23:42

This is wild. This is wild. Um, this is gonna be a very unique uh World Cup, uh, especially with the uh with our political climate. And I say that because you know I've read about some of the one of the top referees is from Somalia, they didn't let him in apparently, and I haven't seen whether he he got his visa approved and he's now in, but uh and I saw that about somebody else who was trying to get in to do something with the games. And I was just like, it just puts an interesting tint to it all. And so uh it'll be interesting to see what impact, if any, that has.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

Well, I think there's a huge impact because I think that there's a reluctance to travel to the United States from a lot of countries because you don't you don't even know if you're you know, there's there's a fear you may not get into the country, you know, overall overall international travel to you know, travel uh from overseas countries to the United States is down in the last in the last year for precisely this reason. Does it mean that you know that I think is gonna have a that is already you're starting to see a huge an impact on that on ticket prices at some of these group one stage games between two smaller countries, you're not seeing you know, ticket prices are are gonna be low for that. Ticket prices are two to three hundred for some of those kind of matches.

SPEAKER_03 24:58

So if you just want the World Cup experience, those are the games you need to go to.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

That's exactly right. You know, you know what else bugs me? I'll tell you what else bugs me. Okay, about this.

SPEAKER_03 25:09

This is a special thing. We can we get an elevator.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

Here's another number. Here's our second number of the day.

SPEAKER_03 25:13

That's a bonus number.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

This is our bonus number. Our bonus number is $150.

SPEAKER_03 25:20

$150, what is that?

SPEAKER_00 25:22

That is the amount of money that some combination of FIFA and New Jersey transit, or I think it was FIFA, I'm not sure who's actually behind this, so I don't want to you know disparage anybody. But that's the amount of money that it the the original price it costs to go from Madison Square Garden, or I'm sorry, uh Manhattan to MetLife Stadium, which is where the matches are being played in the New York City area, which is you know just not too far from both those places are right next to me. So normally that's a that's like a 20-minute train ride, 25-minute train ride. Normally on New Jersey transit, that costs $13. The original price is $150, and then there was a bit of an outcry or a lot of an outcry, and now they've come all the way down to $98. So to get from Manhattan on a 25-minute train ride to get into MetLife Stadium in New Jersey is $98.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

Wow. It's outrageous. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 26:20

Uh I can't, you know, that that that seems unwell. We don't have a problem in Dallas because everybody no nobody drives, nobody takes public transportation. Everybody's got to have their own horse uh when they're when when they're coming uh wherever they're coming. Um so, but wow, I can't believe it. I mean, you know, that's supply and demand, man. It's what America is built on.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

I don't know if that's supply and demand. I don't know if that's this is this is what this is what gets me. I don't know if that's supply and demand. I think well, maybe it is. Maybe it is. Maybe that is.

SPEAKER_03 26:52

We do what we it's no different than, and I know you understand this. Uh it's it's sorry, the same hotel room you can buy today, yeah, in in Los Angeles, is three hundred dollars a night. The week of the Super Bowl, that same hotel room, the same basic room, the exact same room, is like three thousand dollars a night.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

But right, but but that is supply and demand because everybody consents. That's and that is it's outrageous, but that's supply and demand. This to me is more something else. This this to me, to give you a quasi-economic term, strikes me as a monopolistic pricing model because there's only one uh New Jersey transit is your only game in town to take the train. There are if there were like 20 trains, I'm telling you, the price would not be, you know, if there were five other trains that could take you there. So this is this is about a monopolistic pricing strategy. That's why this is not pure supply and demand.

SPEAKER_03 27:52

You know what my response to that is? Shame on you, New Jersey Transit.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

I don't know who's I actually don't know what the uh and I should have looked that up. I don't know what the revenue is.

SPEAKER_03 28:04

Let me let me rephrase that. Whoever's price gouging people, shame on you. Shame, shame, shame.

SPEAKER_00 28:10

Yeah, that used to be that used to be a segment on New York Local News. Do you remember that segment? Shame on you?

SPEAKER_01 28:16

No.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 28:17

I've never lived in New York.

SPEAKER_00 28:19

There was a great local news reporter on CBS Local named Arnold Diaz, who did a segment called Shame on You every week or every two weeks. And somebody would, you know, a viewer would say, Hey, I'm having problems with this merch with this thing. And he would go in and he would talk to them. And the segment would always be a large finger wag that would go on the screen that said, Shame, shame, shame on you. It was a great segment. Used to be when when everybody watched local TV.

SPEAKER_03 28:45

Bottom line for me, if you can get to the World Cup, get to the World Cup. Just don't try to get to the win in New York City.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

Yeah, I mean, the bottom line for me is dynamic pricing cuts both ways. It can go up and down. But more importantly, no one can ultimately break the law of supply and demand. And I think that's what's going to happen here.

SPEAKER_03 29:05

Hey, before I forget, please make sure you subscribe, rate, and review. We can use all the help you can get. We can get look at us. Clearly, we need help. Um now is our favorite topic of the day. It's Ohio State's conversation. This time we went into the JJT research vault and we came up with a with a much better conversation. You know, we started talking about Ohio State receivers, top receivers in Ohio State history. And so we now have a comprehensive list uh to talk about as it relates with Ohio State's best receivers. And the cutoff is really I said I made the cutoff 1980 because before that it was it was uh Woody's three yards in a cloud of dust. I'm not even sure if they threw the ball before 1980. Um Bruce shows up, but like we can all talk about Hopalon Cassidy, Les Orvat, we never saw Archie Griffin. Who was the top receiver in Ohio State history pre 1980? And I just thought of somebody who we might be remiss that we left them off the list.

SPEAKER_00 30:16

Pre-1980.

SPEAKER_03 30:18

I just thought about this guy who I know very well, and I'm like, ooh, I might have made a boo-boo.

SPEAKER_00 30:25

Gary Williams? I don't know who are you thinking of.

SPEAKER_03 30:28

You're you're gonna be disappointed in yourself.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

I I I can't think I can't think of it. No, I I'm I uh it's gonna bug me, I know. But tell me, tell me.

SPEAKER_01 30:37

Paul Warfield. Of course, oh my god. Oh my god, I totally yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:44

Paul Warfield, Hall of Famer, Miami Dolphins, undefeated season.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

Of course.

SPEAKER_03 30:50

Um, but we did say 1980 is a cutoff, so obviously he's way before then. Uh I I got to know Paul really well. Paul's got the softest voice of any great footballer. I don't know that. Oh man, matter of fact, I almost laughed first time I heard it, but uh he's a great guy, and he was doing a lot of work with Calvin Hill and the Cowboys in their player development department. So he was around the facility quite a bit, and I got to talk to him quite quite a bit uh back in the day. Great guy, great guy. Uh matter of fact, I had known the name and knew he was a great receiver, had no idea he went to Ohio State until I was introduced to him. Uh by because some of one of the uh people who was in charge of that department went to Ohio State who I knew very well, and she said, Hey, let me introduce you to another buckeye. This one's a great one.

SPEAKER_00 31:38

But he was Warfield must have been mid-60s, right? Because he he was with because he was with the Dolphins in the early 70s, so he must have been either mid to late 60s, would be my guess.

SPEAKER_03 31:49

Do you know who his first team was?

SPEAKER_00 31:51

Was it Cleveland or not? Yeah, yeah, that's what I thought.

SPEAKER_03 31:54

Uh yeah, Paul Warfield at 83 years old. So um now the question is, was he a first round pick? Because I have no idea.

SPEAKER_00 32:05

I I would say probably not, just because receivers didn't go that high uh around that time.

SPEAKER_03 32:11

As usual, you would be incorrect. Paul Warfield.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

I got Cleveland, didn't I?

SPEAKER_03 32:16

Yeah, yeah. You got Cleveland right. Paul Warfield, first round pick, number 11 overall.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

Is that right?

SPEAKER_03 32:23

Wow. And so he played, he must have been at Ohio State like 61, 62, 63.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

That's what I figured. I figured it's probably mid-60s, yeah, early to mid-60s. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:32

So, you know, they didn't throw the ball back when Paul Warfield was playing. Okay. But Paul Warfield, he this is this is I just saw this obviously. Paul Warfield played 13 years in the NFL, okay. He only caught 427 passes.

SPEAKER_00 32:51

Yeah, it's a totally different world. Right.

SPEAKER_02 32:54

But he caught 427 passes and scored 85 touchdowns.

SPEAKER_00 33:00

That's amazing. That's amazing. Yeah, that's a 20%. That's 20% of the passes he caught.

SPEAKER_02 33:07

Not only that, his career average, career average, 20.1.

SPEAKER_00 33:15

Right. Because a passing game then was a downfield passing game. It was not, yeah, yeah. Uh this is insane though. But you know, Paul Paul Warfield. So the other thing about play, not that anybody is particularly interested, but the other thing about players in the 60s and 70s is that the the only players who were really drafted were from the really big school. So if you played wide receiver, even you went to Ohio State if you were the best wide receiver, you went to, you know, at the time, I guess we mean Nebraska, Oklahoma, and other schools. If you're the best, because the best players just went to a handful of schools. It reminds me of this is what I call the Swen Nader effect. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 33:54

Who I did not have that on my bingo code.

SPEAKER_00 33:57

Who is Swen Nader, you say?

SPEAKER_03 33:59

St. Louis Spirit of 76.

SPEAKER_00 34:03

He backed up uh Lou Alcinder, Karim Abdul Jabbar at UCLA, right? And he still was one of the top draft choices because all the good players went to UCLA. That's the Swed Nader, but that's kind of how you know the Paul Warfield's the world because all the good players went anyway. Off track. So top five Ohio State receivers according to Jacques Taylor. Um your crack team of researchers.

SPEAKER_03 34:30

Not that I've had time to do it. Um uh I gotta call it back up because I didn't memorize it. We gotta have the top five went uh my personal top five.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

Go go go five go five through one. Um do it do it that way.

SPEAKER_03 34:47

Oh, all right. It would be um uh I'm I'm looking because I don't think this guy's in my top five on his list. Uh it is and uh number five would be Joey Galloway. Okay, all right. Uh number four, because I'm a prisoner of the moment, would be um Jeremiah. Yeah. I can't put him.

SPEAKER_00 35:13

I need to see how his career plays out before I put him right certainly trajectory to be in the top five, no question.

SPEAKER_03 35:19

Number three is Terry Glenn.

SPEAKER_00 35:22

Terry Glenn, okay.

SPEAKER_03 35:24

Yeah, I'm I'm I'm I'm a um you know he was a seventh pick overall.

SPEAKER_00 35:28

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 35:29

And I and okay, let me be honest with you. I have a buck out, I have a cowboy bias because he played a couple years with the cowboys, and we used to have some great conversations. Uh number two, Marvin Harrison Jr. And uh I really think upon further review, Chris Carter's probably the best one, given what they did at that particular time, how they operated. It's the Paul Warfield thing. If they had thrown the ball more, his numbers would have been more.

SPEAKER_04 35:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:55

He played with Jim Carsado, it's not like he played with some great play. Yeah, see that? See that? I mean, you mean he probably played with Mike Tomzak. Still, Mike Tomzak's not a great quarterback. I mean, he played in the league for a long time, but yeah, you know, so that that would be my top five.

SPEAKER_00 36:11

Jim Carsados. I haven't thought the only thing I think about Jim Carsados is they they ran the shovel pass like every other play when Jim Carsados was quarterback because he couldn't move, but that's a different story. So I I looked up the top receivers in terms of yards, right? And so the number one in terms of total yards, which is not really a fair comparison necessarily because it's different eras, and you know, some players play longer, uh, you know, as you know, more recently.

SPEAKER_03 36:39

They're not playing about three years now, though.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

Yeah, yeah, that's true. Um, but what's fascinating is that the number one through the number this is yards, right? Yards number one through number six are like 300. Actually, number one through number eight are 400 yards apart. So the number eight guy is 2,400 yards, the number one guy's 2,800 yards. So you're gonna like so you don't have you don't have in we don't have JSN on there. He might actually be the best receiver, but he's only had one really good year.

SPEAKER_03 37:15

Right.

SPEAKER_00 37:15

Yeah he only played one year really, but you know who's the leader in yardage?

SPEAKER_03 37:19

Is it KJ Hill?

SPEAKER_00 37:21

KJ Hill's 10th.

SPEAKER_03 37:22

Okay, he he must lead them in catches or something, or maybe he did a while back.

SPEAKER_00 37:27

This was not now, it looks like Jeremiah Smith, if he has you know more than 300 yards receiving this year, he'll be the leading receiver in terms of yards. But umeka Gbuka is number one.

SPEAKER_03 37:39

Really?

SPEAKER_00 37:40

Chris Olave is two.

SPEAKER_03 37:42

Right. See, it's recently biased because they threw the ball a hell of a lot.

SPEAKER_00 37:46

Yeah, but but to your point about Chris Carter, Chris Carter is ninth.

SPEAKER_03 37:50

He's still ninth after all these years.

SPEAKER_00 37:52

Yeah, which is exactly so I I would I would agree with you that Chris Carter has to be I I think it I think the two best receivers in Ohio State history are gonna be Chris Carter and Jeremiah Smith. I think those, I think those are those are in the top two, and I think uh Joey Galloway's got to be in the top five, also. There's no question.

SPEAKER_03 38:16

You know the thing about Joey Galloway, man, and uh not so much that I can't remember at Ohio State, but the NFL. I once had an in-depth conversation with somebody about Joey, and I think we broached this topic with him one time. It is our belief, now we don't have any any statistical evidence to prove this. It is our belief Joey Galloway scored more walking to the end zone touchdowns than any player in NFL history. Meaning, I'm so wide open that I literally walked the last yard or two in the back.

SPEAKER_00 38:48

Now, why now why is that? Is it just because he's a great root route runner? Is it because what why why do you think that is?

SPEAKER_03 38:55

Yeah, he he you can't get that open. Well, two things. One, he had he was running 4'2, you know, when he first got in the league, 4'2, 9 or 4'3.

SPEAKER_00 39:06

Oh, I didn't realize he had that much speed. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 39:07

Oh my god, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he had like, see, here's the other thing. He ran really great routes because Joey Galloway is not any bigger than me, taller. Joey Galloway, well, he's like 5'11, 190 pounds, but he's he's very muscular, but he had size 14 feet at 5'11, which means he could plant and go because his feet much like you, his feet were wide and they were big for his body size.

SPEAKER_00 39:36

Us us uh elite athletes often are built like that. That's true.

SPEAKER_03 39:39

But and so he had this great speed, and so if you get caught on play action pass slipping, you you're never going. I mean, Dion might be able to catch up with him, but anybody else, no. And so he had all these touchdowns where he's literally jogging into the end zone, walking into the end zone.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

That's that's that's fascinating. I you know, I heard something, and I I don't remember some some analyst, and I don't I don't remember who it was, uh, said this about JSN. That yeah, he he said that the reason JSN is is so good is because his movements are such that you can't tell when he's cutting left or cutting right, that he looks smooth the whole time. So normally when somebody is, you know, when a uh a cornerback or safety is is on you know JSN or on a receiver, you can like, you know, they tell you to study the receiver's hips or there's yeah, the hips and then the shoulders and all that. JSN apparently they say if you watch him, he looks like he's smooth the whole time. So he's impossible for most defenders to figure out which direction he's going, which is why he's such a you know, such a good receiver, even though he doesn't have you know necessarily the huge speed.

SPEAKER_03 40:52

Um I'm gonna go backwards for a minute. Joey Galloway, I just looked it up. At the combine, he ran 418 handheld, 424.

SPEAKER_00 41:02

Oh my goodness. I didn't realize that. Oh my goodness. Yeah, that's uh I mean that's smoky.

SPEAKER_03 41:09

Like Dion, that's Dion kind of speed.

SPEAKER_00 41:11

That's that's scorching speed. I didn't, I I actually what is what was what was Ted Ginn Jr. was he he was he at that kind of speed or not?

SPEAKER_03 41:19

Yeah. Uh but see he was taller. Um, you know, Ted Ginn is like a legitimate, like 6'2. Uh oh, he was that big, yeah. He was much slender though. Um you know, he was like 6'2, 180 or 175. 4'2 8.

SPEAKER_00 41:38

Okay, so he was faster than Ginn. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 41:40

Yeah. Wow. He's just slow. I mean, he's just a different bodybuild, but because Ted had a long stride, and it took Ted uh just a couple seconds to get going because of a long stride, and once he got going, you couldn't catch him. Uh, you had to get him shortly after the takeoff uh before you get him, which I think is why he didn't have as much success in the NFL. Although he had a good NFL career and became a uh you know, kind of like your quintessential deep threat.

SPEAKER_00 42:06

But he was not a good return, a good return guy always.

SPEAKER_03 42:09

Yeah, but he was not, you know, he just I mean he be I mean he had a really good career, but he was a he was really like your classic one-dimensional um deep ball guy, yeah. Yeah, uh, because he he played 13 years and caught 412 passes. That's not a lot of passes, just like Paul Worfing.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

Yeah, yeah. So basically, but so what do you what do you think this year? Chris, Chris Henry and Jeremiah Smith. I know you we you you can't you can't tell anything from a high school player necessarily, but who's who's a guy from from uh your neck of the woods who you had mentioned to me before, the receiver?

SPEAKER_03 42:46

I think his name is Brock Boyd.

SPEAKER_00 42:48

Uh he's getting a lot, I couldn't think of his name. He's getting a lot of love uh uh practice at Iowa.

SPEAKER_03 42:56

I thought that was impressive. Uh he plays at uh one of the uh um it's a very it's probably the second most affluent neighborhood in uh Dallas. And they've been a they've been a great football program for uh really since the uh when I started covering them when I got out of college, they were a class, they might have been a class two-way school because it was a very small community. Now they play 6A Division II, which is the second biggest division one, six A one is the big one, yeah. Six A Division II, which means they got about three thousand twenty five hundred, three thousand students at least.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

But but I think yeah, I think Ohio State's receiving. If either one of those guys is good, I think Ohio State's receivers are gonna be good, which is gonna make this year's quarterback controversy even more interesting.

SPEAKER_03 43:46

Well, it's it's all about it's always gonna be about the quarterback, but you know, man, playing quarterback is hard and is hard enough. Uh we're gonna sit here and say it's about the quarterback, and I'm going to sit here and say it's about the running game, because if you can run The ball, and I was never really sold on a running game last year. When it worked, I was like, ah, this is great. But it was it wasn't like the year before where you go, oh, it works, it's just a matter of time until one of these guys breaks your back. And so until they can move people and run the ball, especially short yardage when they want to, then you can really play action, you can throw it when you want to. And it only matters in those three or four games a year that matter. The other games you're just more talented, so it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_00 44:31

Well, you also have a quarterback who can't who didn't run last year.

SPEAKER_03 44:34

That's the biggest thing. He's uh, you know, hopefully, uh, I mean, you know, Ohio State knows how to run their program. So they know he needs, if he was 170 last year, he needs to be 185 this year. Have some weight on him. Uh, because he was tiny. I still, you know, I still haven't figured out why they didn't run your boy Kleinholtz last year.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

You're right, you're right about that.

SPEAKER_03 44:56

You know, because my whole thing is I as I live in the past was when they ran him against Michigan, I was like, oh, this is great. You're you're like, okay, we're getting ready, and like in those situations now, we feel comfortable is had enough snaps that we could do that. And then in the Big Ten championship game, where if you're gonna run the sneak, yeah, you'd probably want your 6'3, 230-pound quarterback to do it who's had some snaps, and uh and they didn't do it. And I'd be fine if I got an answer, but I haven't gotten an answer yet why they didn't do it.

SPEAKER_00 45:27

It is, it's it's uh but but I also think the you know the offensive line, which I think has three returning starters this year, but the offensive line has to be has to be better. It's it's it's it's all of those things that are that are connected. But but you're you're to me the biggest issue with Ohio State last year is a quarterback couldn't run. I mean, that was the biggest advantage. I mean, Will Howard was a monster and was able to run the year before. And they also but you but you're also right. They also had Quinchon uh Judkins, who was also was also a monster. Ohio State didn't have any of that last year, and their offensive line was slightly above average.

SPEAKER_03 46:04

Right. That's why they had issues throughout the season, even though they were winning. Uh, you know, if you you know that's why it matters how you win sometimes. Winning is great, but if you're playing, if you're trying to win a championship, um, and I've seen it from the NFL level, it matters how you win, because how you win will determine when you really play elite competition, how you get down. Uh, and they did all of that, but as I say, it became clear early on they were gonna have to win with defense because their offense was good, but it wasn't spectacular. And so at the end of the day, it's the defense that let them down to me.

SPEAKER_00 46:38

Um defense had two drives where they had to come through and they were over two. That's essentially what happened.

SPEAKER_03 46:46

That's it. I mean, it was a great ride, but ultimately, ultimately, that's it. Uh I'm gonna remind you once again before we get out of here to subscribe, rate, review. Clearly, we're in need of help. So help us out into that. Uh but bottom line for me, man, is Chris Carter, number one receiver all time in Ohio State history, with an asterisk for Paul Warfield being the best before 1980.

SPEAKER_00 47:12

Uh bottom line for me, I can't believe Joey Galloway ran that at the combine. That I didn't, I don't recall that at all. That's pretty pretty remarkable.

SPEAKER_03 47:21

Uh so for uh Jeremy Pink, I'm Jean-Jacques Taylor. We'll highlight you next week in the next episode of uh the bottom line on sports.

SPEAKER_00 47:28

Okay. All right, guys. We'll see you next week.