But the word decide originally means to cut off from.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01So when you decide something, that means that's the option. You have cut off from the other option and have chosen one option.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And so in relationships, when you have decided, you have cut off any other option. We're living in a culture where decision is not actually decision anymore. You call it decision, but you're still looking at other options, and that's why you're unfaithful in the thing. And we are back with the homie podcast, the one and only full-fledged. So look, I'm just I'm not gonna I'm not gonna lie to y'all. It's cloudy outside right now. It's not super sunny.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I'm not saying I'm not gonna be happy because I am, I'm always happy. Got the joy of the Lord, but I'm very mellow today. Like I'm very just like, let's just talk, rec regular conversation like we always do, and we're here, we're good. You know what I mean? How are you feeling today, mom?
SPEAKER_02I'm feeling good. I feel the same way. Like it's overcast outside, so I'm a little bit like but I feel good. I'm glad to be talking to you. This is this is, can I just say, part of the joy of this whole thing, really the main joy of this whole thing, is that I get to sit with my young adult son and have great conversations that are recorded, which means 25 years from now, I'll get to look back and sort of see what were we talking about? What was my son thinking about when he was 21 years old?
SPEAKER_01True. And I'd be saying I'd be real. So, like, I know whatever I say, I'm that's really what I'm thinking. Yeah. So I you exactly, I thought about this as like a diary. Like it's it really is. Like you go back 10 years and look at, oh, look, I was thinking that. I was an idiot back then. That made no sense at all. So all that chronicle of growth.
SPEAKER_02And then one day you'll have a kid and you can say, Hey, look, this is what I was thinking when I was 20 years old.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, oh, I didn't even think about that. Absolutely. Because YouTube will definitely still be a thing. Yeah. So, like, I'll just be able to go back and be like, hey, look at this. Yeah. Your father's better than you.
SPEAKER_02A digital record of their dad and their grandmother's perspectives.
SPEAKER_01I I never thought about that. And I think it'll be interesting one day to for them to see both of us doing that.
SPEAKER_02Oh, it will be. There are some things that I wrote down when I was 23, 24 years old that I look back on now and I'm like, that's so interesting that I thought that. Back then, I would have never remembered, number one, if I hadn't recorded it in some way. But also I look back on and go, oh my gosh, I can't believe I uh the equivalent of posted that. Like I can't believe I posted that thought.
SPEAKER_01That's hilarious.
SPEAKER_02What was I talking about?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_02But then it shows growth and maturity.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, and I'm running off of no breakfast. Like I had a little bit of leftovers, but the carbs still ain't kicked in. So we'll see if I make sense. Today, we'll be all right. We'll be good. We're just we're just running with the floor, run with the punches. Okay, mom, what are we talking about today?
SPEAKER_02We are talking about relationships. Now, we already had this conversation, just so everybody is aware. If you go back to, I think during the very first few episodes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think it was like the first three, like at least at least over a year ago now.
SPEAKER_02So over a year ago, we had a conversation about relationships. When we s when I say relationship, we're talking about dating, romantic relationships, mostly from the vantage point of being a young man. We could say a young person though, being 21 years old, the dating scene, the way it is right now, the choices you've made about navigating relationships in your life, um, why you've made those choices, the difficulty that it's caused having those lines in the sand, um, the freedom that it's given you, just sort of talking through what it's like to be 20-ish and be out here out here in these streets. Right.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no doubt.
SPEAKER_02So we're talking about dating relationships. One of the main questions that I get honestly, is are your boys dating anybody? I, you know, I have three sons and I get that question all the time. You boy your boys dating anybody that got girlfriends? And the answer is no. None of my boys have had a serious girlfriend their entire lives.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, nah.
SPEAKER_02No, you haven't. And I'm not mad about that. I'm okay with that because I appreciate that y'all have been focused on other things. Um, I'm hoping that when the right woman comes along, she will grab your attention and you will know. You'll be like, oh, this woman right here is worth it. You know, worth the shift of priorities and that sort of thing. Oh, don't you worry. She's out there. I've been praying for her.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you keep praying.
SPEAKER_02I've already been praying for her since you were prayers of the righteous available.
SPEAKER_01Is that what it's like?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I've been praying for her. Um, so we're gonna talk about relationships, but first, we have an opening song. You always you always kind of forget the opening song.
SPEAKER_01I always forget. I just get to talking, and when I get to the yapping, I get the yapping, and I just don't think about anything else.
SPEAKER_02But yeah, we totally stole this idea from Tabitha Brown. Um, I love Tabitha Brown, Auntie Tab, and her husband, and they before she was even Tabitha Brown, like because she is major and amazing, and I celebrate her and her family. But before that, she was a lady kind of doing her stuff on her channel and on her page. And her and her husband, still to this day, had a show that they would do together. They sit at the kitchen table and they would just make this beat as their opening song. We totally stole that. I was like, Well, we gotta have an opening beat if we're doing a podcast.
SPEAKER_01I mean, that was the first thing you said when I even ever brought up this idea. You were like, Can we do the opening thing? I'm like, what are you talking about? She went to the Instagram. Look, they be doing it, look, look.
SPEAKER_02I'm like, Yeah, I was like, these are our people. We gotta, we gotta mirror this. I mean, why not? Okay. So it's not even a song, it's just a beat. Yeah, it's just a You ready up, yeah? Here we go.
SPEAKER_04Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, yeah, that's good.
SPEAKER_01I caught the beat there. Okay.
SPEAKER_02That's it. That's the opening song. Welcome. All right, welcome.
SPEAKER_01The homie podcast.
SPEAKER_02The homie podcast relationship. So, JC, why do you think that to date, 21 years old, by the way, he'll be 22, not too long from now.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, why do you think to date you have either uh intentionally chosen or it just hasn't materialized that you've been in a for real girlfriend-boyfriend relationship?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, I'm I feel like there's been different like phases of my life that have more so different reasons than others. They're all like the same three, but they like rotate. Okay. And so for main the main reason for most of my life why I feel like I've never been in a relationship is because I just cared about other things more.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Like, yeah, I we were talking about this the last time, but I'll reiterate it again for because we have a lot of new um people who watch the podcast. It's um for my whole life I've like just loved basketball. And that's taken up just the majority of my time because I had goals um for basketball.
SPEAKER_02You were trying to reach them and be intentional about them. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I mean, and it takes a lot to be a good athlete at a super high level. So I knew that from hearing about all the stories about, you know, great NBA players, Kevin Durant, Michael Jordan, Steph, you know, all the people that you have to put in a lot of time and effort. And so I was like, okay, well, time, energy, and effort, just going to basketball. I made that decision when I was 10. So since then I've just been really on the grind and really focused on hitting that goal. And I didn't want to put my time, energy, effort into anything else, really, to be honest with you. Yeah. Like it was just hoops. So I knew if I did a lot of other things, especially having a girlfriend, it would I would have to spend or put time, energy, effort in her. And money. And money. And I didn't have any of those things. Yeah, and none of that. I sure don't. And so I was I was like, okay, so we're gonna have to figure this out. So I just never really no one ever came that I was like, oh, you know what I'm saying? Like, she definitely is worth me taking time, energy, effort away from basketball, away from my goals to put into her. Like, I just never met the person that made me feel all the way like that. You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, I completely know what you're saying. And I I'll just kind of underscore that reason. I know you said you have two more, but I'll just underscore that. I kind of would tell the boys growing up, you know, I would not necessarily discourage dating in a one-on-one relationship, but we encouraged group friendships. Like I was like, you know, even if two of you kind of like each other, just make it a part of this bigger group. Y'all go to prom together. Everybody go to homecoming. Everybody kind of participate together because the drain on time, energy, effort, finance that these one-off relationships create, especially on the high school level, when right now you're not doing nothing about that. There's no permanency, probably for the most part. There are some people that meet their spouse in high school, they get married. But in general, um, I I know that for that kind of a drain to be on your life at that point with time, priorities, passion, emotional investment you're making in someone, for that kind of drain to be there sometimes can take the fun out of the relationship.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because the fact that you had just friends, like you, you went on a date with to homecoming and prom. We we probably need to put a picture up. But yeah, we need to see your homecoming and your prom pictures. But you went on dates, but you were always in the context of a group. It was like we are doing this, and because of that, I felt like you had fun. There wasn't this drain and weightiness of it's it's me and her, and we gotta be. So there was a freedom I felt like you had because you just kept your focus on the priorities you had set, and then you didn't allow these other things, this relational aspect to sort of tug on you during that season of your life.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I just didn't think it was worth it. I also, now looking back on it, I also think God was doing that on purpose because if I would have got into a relationship back then, it probably wouldn't have been good, like you said, for me. I would have, I don't know. I I wasn't mature enough or ready enough to have a real relationship, so I would have just ended up hurting other people. And what do you mean by that?
SPEAKER_02Do you feel like you wouldn't have had good boundaries morally, or do you feel like no, after a while, you just would have been like, I don't want to be with you double because I got you you taken away from my goals all this?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think a little bit of both. I think I would have had fine boundaries once I made the decision that I was gonna, you know, be right before God in that area. Then I was like, Yeah, I wasn't gonna do it regardless. But I think I don't think that's a problem. It was more so, yeah, I just think I would have got bored quickly.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think you would have genuinely.
SPEAKER_01I think I would have just been like it the thrill of the rush of the adrenaline would have been great at first. And then by week six, I would have been like, okay. Not week six. I'm trying to go hoop again. Yeah. So you're gonna sit down and then she would have been, you know what I'm saying? It would have just been a whole thing. So I kind of think I was doing that purposeful, purposefully.
SPEAKER_02So you weren't ready for that yet.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I wasn't. And he was trying to use basketball to get me the liberty so that I could go through the whole thing so that you know I'm maturity.
SPEAKER_02Yeah so you have time to develop some maturity. And yeah, and I agree with you. There will, at the time that is appropriate, be a young lady that comes along and investing in her will feel like a privilege to you. And until it does, right. Yeah, it ain't it ain't no because you should feel like it is a joy, it is a privilege to give you the best that I have. And if you don't feel that way, you shouldn't get married. Because you know, people get married or you know, relationships, just dating relationships, or get married for very selfish reasons. Uh many people do. You don't even know, you don't even recognize it at first, but you're getting married because you want this person to feed you in some way. But the perspective is supposed to be I actually feel sp, can I say especially when you're the husband, because you're providing the covering, you're providing the leadership in this relationship. It needs to feel like more than anything else. I have other goals and stuff too. But what I want to do is take care and love you. And until a woman pulls that out of you, um, then you're right. Wasting your time or her time is not appropriate.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I was trying to figure out, okay, so because I heard something the other day, it was like a as a pastor, teacher, or somebody, and they were saying um that basically you need like people in relationships in every every aspect. They were talking about friendships, dating, whatever. They were like, okay, so most people get into relationships for what they can get out of it, but there are very few people who get in relationships with the mindset of how can I serve this person.
SPEAKER_02And both people need to have that.
SPEAKER_01And so I was like, okay, yeah, I got it for sure. Never thought about that in my life. Like I always thought about relationships, and I didn't know I was taking like this, but I always thought about relationships for the most part, about like, um, okay, what what how am I gonna benefit from this? You know what I mean? And I never felt like the benefit of a relationship was going to, the results were gonna yield a higher return than my basketball thing, which is probably why I didn't do it. But I also have another question because this is this this confuses me a little bit. Um, and I don't know because I never felt it, but this like like like you know it's the right person. Yeah. This like love at first sight thing that I'd be hearing, I'd be like, that's great for y'all. Um, how did how did you and dad do that? Like, was it like love at first sight, or was it like, no, we dated, and then I was like, oh, this is the right person, and then I met the, you know, I'm saying it wasn't like a, oh, I know, or was it like no? We did the whole boy, you know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_02It was love at first sight for your father. All right.
SPEAKER_01All right.
SPEAKER_02Okay, I'm gonna answer that question, but first, I need to go back to something you just said.
SPEAKER_01Okay, cool.
SPEAKER_02Um, there is, you're right, going into a relationship, especially once you get to the point of marriage, where you were both looking at what is what is God calling me to give to this person? Right. How can I serve? How can I outserve? You actually heard your father say that. My goal is to figure out how I can outserve your mom. Like that is his MO. I I married very well in that way. That man, Jerry just is like, you know, he desires to serve and to support and all that. And and I hope that I do that the same, even though I wonder if I do as well as he does. But the point is there is a balance that I just wanted to throw out here while you were talking. Yes, you are looking at it that way, but there also has to be a sober-mindedness. This is where older, wiser people, hopefully, folks that love you in your life can help you look at it. A sober-mindedness that I want to make sure I am not marrying someone who also can't um give to me in a way that will help my make my life healthier. If that makes sense. So, yes, I'm thinking about them and what I want to give to them. But also, I want to make sure I am not marrying someone who's coming with so much baggage, whether that is emotional baggage, practically, financial baggage, yeah, where all of a sudden my life is harder. Because life happens. There's gonna be hard stuff that comes without you going into it knowing that this person, the life they lived before now, is going to cause my life to be even more difficult, harder, uh, uh unhealthy than it was before they got here.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So I guess there is a little bit of a, for lack of a better word, selfish perspective you have to have in there too, in a balanced way. Yeah, I want to give to you and support you and blah, blah, blah.
SPEAKER_01But also, my life needs to be better. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because I'm attached to you.
SPEAKER_01So I guess when when God calls us to be servants, like the reason why we can serve him so faithfully is because we know he's done everything for us. You know what I mean? So, like, if Jesus was like, I'm God, but like there was no tangible anything in that, and he we we didn't believe that he was God and actually died, then the servanthood wouldn't look the same.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I guess yeah, that that that's you know what I mean? Oh, a thousand percent.
SPEAKER_02And that, and sometimes when you have butterflies and and you you feel the way about a person, you really need people around you to go, okay, hold on. I'm glad y'all love each other and all that. But also, can we talk about finances?
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_02Can we talk about the fact that you do not want to have children? And this person does. It's a desire of theirs, but it's not yours. That's gonna be a problem. Do you know what I mean? Or y'all are both Christians, but you have an entirely different way of looking at this practical aspect of the faith, and so does he. How are y'all gonna raise babies together and y'all are polar? We need to talk about this. Do you know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_01Uh I got another question.
SPEAKER_02So, okay, but let me you want me to answer your first question first or you're writing it down.
SPEAKER_01I have a I have a um um man you you write down notes? Yeah, just because I have this, I know how I get to talk and I'm gonna forget.
SPEAKER_02Right, because I have a question to ask you too that's very personal. Okay, cool. But I love it.
SPEAKER_01Do you need to remember that? I'll remember because I'm not gonna forget this question. Can I add a little caveat to add a caveat? I want to add a caveat because um, yes, the love at first sight, yes, the um how you and dad, all that, right? But the reason why I'm asking is because there's probably a lot of people like me out, like you know, out there in the audience who are who don't have a significant other, yeah, or are looking for a significant significant other, and they are being sold this feeling about like you know is the right one, so you good. And then is that always the case? Um, so I'm trying to figure out what I'm supposed to look for. You know what I'm saying? Like, am I supposed to look for that that that that princess fairy tale feeling, or is it actually uh not that? You know what I mean? Y'all know I'm very curious about the Bible, like super, super curious. That's why I started the podcast to ask my mom questions and ask guests questions so that I can learn about what the Bible is actually talking about. And one of the tools that I've been using for the past years has been Logos Bible app. It's been incredible before every talk that I do, before every podcast that I'm on. I literally go in and use this tool to help me learn and help me understand more things in the Bible. Whatever I'm studying and Bible studies with friends, I can just go in the app real quick and answer it, ask it a quick question and it'll give me an answer. And the best part about logos is that it comes from a reliable source. You get to pick the books that the AI source pulls from, which is different than going to ChatGPT because ChatGPT you can just pull from anywhere, but logos actually pulls from its own scholarly sources so you know you're getting a reliable answer when you ask it a question, which is so dope. It has been so great for me in my learning and my studying and everything I've been doing to learn more about the Bible. So, Full Fledge has partnered with Logos to give you our exclusive listeners a 60-day free trial of the app. So you can go in it, ask it questions, see its features, and I know you'll be impacted by what it can do because it impacted me and most of my family who use it. So if you want to join and get your exclusive 60-day free trial, type in logos.com slash fullfledge. Again, it's logos.com slash fullfledge. I'll put the link right here and below so you can go to it and join and get your 60-day free trial. I'm super excited. I use it all the time. I want you guys to use it with me.
SPEAKER_02I don't think it's one or the other. I think there are some people who it is like they they run into this person and it's like something happens and they're just like, wow, there's chemistry here. There's that it factor that is just whatever. And then they better take the time to make sure there's something substantial under that before they make a lifelong commitment. I I I want to say, I am not a relationship expert, but I want to say, I think for most people, you've been married for 25 years though, so but my story's not everybody's stories. Right, but so I don't know that the majority of people, which is what I was about to say, I think most people, it's a slow simmer that they meet someone, and over the course of, I'm not even saying a long time, just over the course of some conversations, some interactions, there's something about them that's intriguing. There's an attraction there and it grows. Um, for me and your dad, I will say the very first time I saw your dad, what I thought, I did do a double take because your dad is my cup of tea. He's tall, dark, handsome, he's just as chocolatey as they come. I I was happy. Like I just I remember literally going, who is that? Like he was just 240 pounds of muscle, six foot two. I mean, he was just my cup of tea. Yeah. So I I was attracted to him initially. I can't call that love at first sight. It was just I was attracted to him. Yeah. Right. And then over the course of time, um, you know, having some conversations, some relational things, some things that made me go, hmm, I like the way he thinks about this, you know, just that connection. Um, then it starts to grow into love. And I feel like for a lot of people, that's what it is. And they are thrown off. If it's not this fireworks in the in the moment of meeting, they've been sold this story that it's supposed to be sort of love at first sight immediately. And a lot of people get married based on that. And that fizzles that little fireworky thing fizzles. Love is a decision, love is action, love is a choice, love is a continuum that grows over time.
SPEAKER_01So getting the Bible, getting the Bible.
SPEAKER_02You're getting the Bible. Are you going to first Corinthians 13?
SPEAKER_01I'm not, but I will go to that first.
SPEAKER_02No, go wherever you'd like to go. But um, I think that if you're only waiting for this firework love at first sight thing, um you might unintentionally and unnecessarily rule out some very substantial people where the fireworks are gonna fire off a little bit later. But because you felt like it was supposed to happen initially, you dis discard them as a possibility.
SPEAKER_01You what you said about love made me think about what true love looks like actually. Because I think we also a lot of young adults are are sold this feeling thing, but I think that love is only a feeling. And I think we have to um know what love is based off of who love is. So I'm like, okay, what does love actually look like? And then Romans five eight. Very famous. Um, I'm in Romans 8 5. I'm dyslexic. That's all right.
SPEAKER_02You're not dyslexic.
SPEAKER_01You're all right. You're doing okay. Yeah. Not really bad.
SPEAKER_02You haven't yet, the carbs haven't kicked in yet from your breast. That's exactly what it is.
SPEAKER_01The carbs kicked in. Okay. But God proves his own love for us in that while while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. I think it's important to see. If you read over that, like, yeah, Christ died for us, great. But no, like, look, like his love was demonstrated and proved by an action of death. So I think that what you said was super pertinent. And I think whenever I put Bible text to something for me personally, it makes it just even that much more real. Not that I don't love you and heed your words very wisely and great graciously. But the Bible was like my thing. So like knowing that love is a demonstration, so that when the love, when the feeling fizzles out, because the feeling fizzled out, God was like, if this cup can pass, let it pass. He did it anyway. Because the feeling was that he wouldn't try to do that. Yeah. But it now that, you know, it's like, you know what? Even still then when the feelings pass, I'm gonna dis decide decision. Okay, one more thing. So sorry, I'm just yapping. Decide is comes from a Latin word. I don't remember it. How do you know what your Latin word is? Uh come on, sir. I'm tracing it back. Uh-huh. But the word decide originally means to cut off from.
SPEAKER_04Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_01So when you decide something, that means that's the option. You have cut off from the other option and have chosen one option.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And so in relationships, when you have decided, you have cut off any other option. We're living in a culture where decision is not actually decision anymore. You call it decision, but you're still looking at other options, and that's why you're unfaithful in the thing. So it's like, okay, when I decide to love, I have cut off the option from any other uh opportunities or anything else. And that's love because you're demonstrating it by being faithful. Correct. I'm done.
SPEAKER_02So I will just say I know for a fact that your dad has been hit on quite a few times since we've been married.
SPEAKER_01Uh-huh. I know that for a fact. Jerry got it like that. I know because he me and he's my I'm his son, and I've been hit on a few times. So I know it he was because we we take a reflection off of each other. Oh my god. Okay, yep. Hallelujah. Boo. Doubt, no doubt, no doubt.
SPEAKER_02Your dad has decided I am married to Priscilla, I'm out. Even to the extent that there are some friendships he had, healthy, regular, platonic female friends. He just don't talk to him no more. And I remember even questioning that. I remember going, you know, you can still have friends, right? Like he was like, oh no. Oh no. I'm making clear.
SPEAKER_01It pops.
SPEAKER_02Lying in the sand. So to your point, you are exactly right. Um, I do want to emphasize something that we were talking about about the sparks and stuff. While love feels away, can feel away, what you said earlier is it's not the primary, the ultimate thing to rely on when making a decision about relationships. But it's important. Meaning you need to feel something.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because you need to be attracted to this person.
SPEAKER_011000%.
SPEAKER_02The physical part of the relationship is extremely important. You know, when people are getting divorced these days, finances is a big reason they're getting divorced. Um, kid dynamics, raising kids um is a is a big strain. Um, and sexuality is a big is a big thing. And if you're not attracted to this person, if you don't feel something in the chemistry of your body um when you're making this decision, if you're just making it for godly reasons, we are on the same pathway and all that. I mean, good for all that. Yes to all that. But also, I don't want to undervalue or act like we're not saying that that part is not also important. It is important. You need to be attracted to the person.
SPEAKER_01I just realized I didn't have my tag on.
SPEAKER_02You do have a tag on your hat, but that's okay. You weren't gonna let me know that, Mom? I thought you were doing it on purpose. I thought it was a style thing.
SPEAKER_01I guess I'm gonna keep it on now.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you might as well keep it on.
SPEAKER_01Style.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so we've talked about your first reason why you haven't had a young lady in your life in any significant way. You've had friends, but in a significant way. Right. You said there were two other reasons.
SPEAKER_01I said that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you said there were three things that came to your mind. Oh, lord. One of them was you had other goals. Oh man. Do you remember what the other two are?
SPEAKER_01If you don't, then I can ask another question. Yeah, I for sure don't remember what I was gonna say about that. Because the carbs haven't kicked in. Oh, oh yeah. Because the carbs. Um, one of the re other reasons was because when I met someone, I just didn't feel like even though I had a the chemistry attraction thing that you were talking about, I didn't feel like they were they were the worthy of such a worth. They were on the same page as you. Yeah, I just never feel like we were on the same page. Like, here's the thing, because I knew the page I was supposed to be on spiritually, I wasn't, but I knew that page I was supposed to be on, and I expected them to fit that page. And I was like, nobody fit that page. I mean, I don't fit that page either, but I was like, you don't fit that page. So I was like, I know that's the page that a wife needs to be on. So I was just like, that's it's just not gonna work. So it was very hypocritical because obviously I was not on that either, but I knew what it was supposed to be like. So I was just holding them to a higher standard than what was maybe real.
SPEAKER_02So how did you have the resolve though? And it might just be your personality, but there are a lot of people who can see somebody's not on the same page, but if they feel away, they let their feelings determine their relational proximity to this person, despite the fact that they know we're really not, we're really not, they're not gonna help me get to where I'm supposed to be, and I'm not gonna help them get to where they're supposed to be. How do you how were you able to cut off? I know I feel this way, but I'm making a decision not to engage with this person.
SPEAKER_01I kind of feel like you said it a little bit, like my personality. Yes. I'm just, I don't know. I I look at it as a gift where I can the future feels so real to me. Like when I think about my life in five years or 10 years or whatever, it feels almost tangible. Like I can see it, like I can feel it and touch it. And so I'm like, if a decision right now does not make that five years or 10 years feel or look like I know it should look or what I want it to look like, it's hard for me to make the decision now.
SPEAKER_02Oh my gosh, that could apply to so that was so great, JC.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's just I don't know.
SPEAKER_02I think it's apply to so many things in life. Like, like that's what if everybody thought that way? The future is right here and it's so real, and I know the decisions I make today are either gonna make that better, make that harder, make that easier, make that healthier, make it unhealthier. So you're making decisions today with tomorrow in mind.
SPEAKER_01Yes, a thousand percent. And also on the other side of that, and that overrides your feelings is what you're saying. Yeah, oh, and that's what I was about to say. I also, and this is the the I guess can be a con a lot of times, part of it, is that I don't feel very heavily to the point to where they drive me. Your feelings don't drive me. Like, there's a lot of people, and this is not a bad thing because I also think I'm not empathetic because of this reason, but my feelings don't really like I don't feel them like that. You know what I mean? Like I'm a very just like logical, like it is what it is, roll with the punches and get through it type of person. So whenever I feel something to them, I'm like, oh, I feel it, and that's great, but it never gets to the point or has never risen to the point to where it's it determines your behavior, and that's with everything in my life, like whatever feeling it is for whatever it is, it usually doesn't like drive. Make the decision.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, which which which is the reason why I'm not very empathetic with people, which is right, which which is something that the Holy Spirit can mature in you, because you will have to be, there will have to be a like I'm looking at a pillow that's sitting over here in your grandmother's seat, the fruit of the spirit, and I'm thinking about the kinds of things that are tender, like gentleness, like um kindness. Those things matter in marriage. And if you don't have them naturally, like you're saying, some people, a lot of people, I'm not very a patient person. I'm a person that likes, well, you know, your dad moves real slow.
SPEAKER_01Oh, really slow.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So I am still working on I'm 27 years into marriage. And it's like, okay, Holy Spirit, in this marriage, I need you to mature in me patience. One of the biggest gifts I can give your dad is to slow down and to let him take his time when making decisions. That's one of the biggest ways I can express love to him. So you knowing that you're not the most feeling-driven person, not the most empathetic, which means if somebody else is feeling something diff uh deeply, you're like, Come on, Ma. Come on, man. Come on, Ma. That's not gonna work when you're married. Yeah, right. So when you married and your wife is just telling you how she feels, and she doesn't want a solution. Yeah, she wants you to hear how she feels. She wants you to say, Come here, girl, lay your head right here. Let me just really see, look at your face. You already look like, yeah. But I think the right person is going to compel in you a desire to do that. You are going to want to comfort her.
SPEAKER_01And you know, to be honest, I kind of I'm learning to do it now because for what I want to do with my life, which is motivating people, which is inspiring people, which is connecting with people, grow growing with people. I have to be better at empath uh at connecting with everybody.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And the way to connect with certain people I've learned is through emotions. The stuff that I don't that that's true to feel what they feel. To feel what they feel, and to acknowledge what they feel, and to listen to how they feel without always needing a solution.
SPEAKER_02Oh my gosh, you're saying a mouthful.
SPEAKER_01I know. I think could in my head right now, the only way for growth is a solution. In your head right now. It's not true. That's right. The way to growth is connection.
SPEAKER_02Come here, boy. I'm gonna write that down. I'm not gonna lie.
SPEAKER_01I gotta write that down.
SPEAKER_02While you're writing it down, I'm going to say that think about whole people groups that what you just said matters to. That I don't have to have gone through or feel exactly what you feel as a group that are saying this is what has happened to us. I'm thinking culturally, racially, um, whole, you know, you could put this in any dynamic, whether it's an interpersonal relationship or whole groups of people. But I need you to hear me and know that it is real. I'm I need you to acknowledge, that's the word you use. I need you to acknowledge that what I'm saying, whether you've experienced or not and not is not the relevant point here. The point is I'm telling you, it's been hurtful, it has impacted me, it has affected me. I'm not asking you to come up with solutions. I'm asking you to acknowledge that this is true because it is my experience. Instead of overriding it and just acting like, well, get over it because I didn't, you know, yeah, get over it.
SPEAKER_01And that's what I say every time. I'm like, bro, just get over it, gang. Like, I'm not even gonna say how I feel, but okay, yes, I can because I just said that I was learning and trying to be better. Yeah. So I can talk about the other side. I just don't understand how like it seems like sometimes people just want to feel true bad. Like feel sad.
SPEAKER_02And there are some people who unhealthfully wallow around in that. Because at some point, it you are toxic to yourself. If you keep sitting in your feelings without coming to, at some point, you have to come to a decision that I am going to bring myself out of these feelings if they're holding me down. And I'm gonna rise up out of this and make choices that are no longer rooted in what is very real. It did happen to you, the abuse you did suffer, the the betrayal somebody, all of that is real. So let's talk about it, let's deal with it. Be heard now what? At some point, you're right, JC, you have to get to that. But probably for this person who is emotionally driven to be inspired to get to that, they have to know, which is why therapy can be so helpful to folks, they have to know they are heard, that their feelings are valid. We got it. Okay, now what? Some point you got to move on to there. And you're right, sometimes people don't. And that's its own, it's like a different sides of a spectrum.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I guess getting, because there always needs to come to a point where you have to come to a solution or decision. I just assume that the only way to like, because the the the faster you can close the gap from feeling to solution is like it is the fast is the faster you're gonna get the result that you desire. But for me, closing the gap looks like just someone motivating me, telling me that I'm tripping, and then putting the solution right here. For some people, it's not like that. For some people, it's connecting, empathy, listening, and then it it allows you to be brought in a space to where a solution can now be heard. Yeah. So it's just different right ways of closing the gap. That's what I'm learning how to do.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And the fact that you're aware of that now at this phase in your life and know that that's gonna be important relationally, JC, that is such a self-aware, mature revelation to have. Um, and again, it's one of many that you will have as you come into the area, the season in your life where maybe you're looking to begin a relationship. There'll be so many ways where you realize, oh, I have to mature in this way or think differently about it because this person receives love a different way than I do. You know what I mean? And they'll have to do the same thing. So, okay. Your second response to why you weren't in a relationship right now, because I there was something else I wanted to say about that. Oh, you realized y'all weren't on the same page spiritually, basically.
SPEAKER_01But I wanted to I wouldn't say that. We're probably on the same page spiritually. I just didn't think they were going. Yeah, I don't I didn't think that they I wasn't either. I just thought that they should be higher spiritually than me because I knew what it took looking at you. So I was like, I feel like you should be like this, but you're not like this. Neither am I, but I feel like you should for me to be in a relationship with you. Yeah, that's that's a double standard if I ever heard one. I said it was earlier too. It's hypocritical. I'm just letting you know what happened.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Now I have like eight things to say. Okay. Let me let me just speak to that real quick. So you said you were looking at me. Okay. I first of all am so honored to hear that there's something about me that makes you think I'd like my wife to whatever. I hope I hope that in several ways that comes across. Um, the way I've kept our home, the way I've related to my children, which is the sec second thing I was gonna say. Um I I you know, I just hope that. Oh, a thousand percent. You know, right down to aesthetics. Like the fact that I y'all have seen your mother who is a black woman wear her natural hair your whole life. You don't know anything other than me just wearing my hair in wild curls. I hope that there's an appreciation y'all have for a woman in her natural state.
SPEAKER_01You know what's funny?
SPEAKER_02I didn't intentionally do that. I'm hoping though that through the years I've been like, oh, I hope they can value.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know what's funny? Yeah, hair is one of like like hair is one of my favorite things on a woman or on a girl. Yeah, it's hair.
SPEAKER_02And would you say that's at least in part because y'all have seen me wearing my hair?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, gotta be something extra.
SPEAKER_02Well, I'm you know, I'm hoping that rubs off. My point is to say, when you just said, you know, because my mom, well, the flip side of that is I'm hoping that also doesn't become um a crippling factor to the woman being who she is. Meaning, well, my dad was Tony Evans. The view I have of what it's supposed to look like from my upbringing, it's not bad that dad gave me that um that dynamic. It's a good uh example. And yet, if I try to force your dad into a Tony Evans box, that's gonna be stifling for him. There are some things that don't come naturally to your dad that I thought were natural for men because that's what my dad always did, but your dad didn't grow up the same way I grew up. So you also have to look for the framework of what it is that you want without holding the person in bondage to it has to look exactly like this. Your wife may not have grown up with a mom that she saw pray for the family, or a mom that she saw um cook meals regularly or bake bread. You know, I love baking bread when y'all are growing up. Well, she may have grew up with a mom who ordered food. Her mom didn't any less take care of her family, she just took care of it differently. So if she comes into y'all's relationship and she's like, oh yeah, I'm I'm not gonna cook, I'm gonna make sure our family eats.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_02But I'm I'm uh, you know, cooking is not a thing for me. Well, you might be like, wait a minute.
SPEAKER_04Hold on, hold on.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and y'all can, y'all can, that's the kind of things you talk about in marriage. You you might compromise on that, but you have to make sure we all have to make sure the foundational issues are important, but that there are ways our parents did it, that we're not holding the person to that prototype.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's a good thought. I've thought about that before, and I probably do do that a little bit. All of us do.
SPEAKER_02If you had any sort of healthy examples, you kind of start feeling like without knowing it, this is the way it's supposed to look.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_02And there are some things that are right and wrong. There are some things that are just differences. And we have to be okay with you do it different than me. And I'm gonna stop trying to make you do it the way it works for me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah. That now that's real. That's real because yeah, yeah, yeah. I can I can see myself doing that for sure. Of course, we all do it. Yeah, but you know, I yeah, I just gotta, now that I know, I can be cognizant of seeing what the foundational things are and what are the secondary things that are just like yeah, you know, like, oh, my parents just did it that way, but there's not really a right or wrong.
SPEAKER_02But anyways, yeah, for me, what's foundational for you and for your brothers is that you marry somebody that's on the same wavelength as you spiritually, meaning y'all are both growing spiritually, and that you have a priority and a passion for Christ and his kingdom. She doesn't have to be a biblical expert, she don't have to be a theologian, she doesn't have to be a scholar. No, I want her to love God with all her heart, soul, and strength so that she can set a pattern for for my grandchildren, for her family culture that's steeped in worship, devotions, because she just she does it. I want her to be sweet. I want her to be sweet. You have no idea, and I need to work on this in my life.
SPEAKER_01What if I don't want my wife to be sweet? You want a sweet wife? No, no. What if I want my wife to be sweet?
SPEAKER_02You want a sweet wife, you don't know it right now. You don't know it right this minute. But you want a wife who has a tenderness to like the way she talks to you, the way she talks to others. There's a sweetness and then there's a kindness to the way she does stuff, the tone with which she does stuff. You do want that. Yeah, you're right. I do. I sure do. I want someone who is low maintenance for y'all, meaning she's content. What you can provide is enough. I would hate to watch my sons always scampering because it's never enough. She's never satisfied. I hope she's not mad at me.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02I'm hoping you marry somebody. Low maintenance might not be the word. It's it the word is content. Yeah. And I'm hoping you marry somebody that man, she thinks you are the business. I mean, when she looks at you, she's like, my husband is the jam. Even when the thing you've set out to do, it failed a little bit, or it wasn't quite exactly like you thought, it wasn't as successful, and you know it, and she knows it. But overall, she just like, my husband is amazing. I want you to feel the electric shock of being married to somebody who thinks you out of business.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I hope I got all them things too. I'm not gonna lie. I hope I got them. Oh, okay. That's what I want for you. That this, I guess this kind of transitions into we can close up a wrap-up with this question, which was Oh no, it's not the wrap-up because I have an important wrap-up question. An important wrap-up question. Very important, but go ahead. Um, well, this one is like I wrote down men and women roles, like, and that sounds very like no, it's a valid question, yeah. But like, I'm trying to figure out what things pre-dating or pre-marriage that uh that that people I guess let me just talk about it from a male's perspective, that a male should have before even considering taking on the the responsibility of stewarding a woman. Because I feel like today, to be completely honest, you obviously in doing relationships, I'd be like, you what are you what are you doing in a relationship? What something sound I know you and I know your situation. Why did you why are you in a relationship? Yeah, I'm just confused. What do you have to offer her? Right. And that's what I'd be thinking, but I'm like, well, maybe there's a there's a part of it of growing together. You know, you're trying to figure out what you're doing. You know what I mean? So I'm just trying to figure out like, what should I have or make sure that I got before I start dabbling in relationships?
SPEAKER_02You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01Like I'm trying to figure out what makes sure I'm good.
SPEAKER_02You know, there is something really beautiful about growing together that you don't necessarily have to have a nest egg settled in your own home and all that. Some people come into it, that they would prefer to have that beforehand. I think that's a personal choice. What you do need to have as a man is upward mobility, meaning you forward movement, purpose. You're in a direction. If I were a woman, single women, listen, if I were a single woman back in my 20s and I were gonna be connected with a man, I wouldn't have to see that he has it all together now. I would have to see though when I talk to him, I can hear in what he's saying that there is a plan, there is a goal, that we can come to this goal together, and that growth is in his conversation and in his strategy, not just conversation, but there's a strategy in place to make sure he actually can do the stuff that you would hope. See, I don't think most women mind um they probably balk sometimes at the word submission. I don't think they mind it if they're married to someone who's covering them. I I don't think I think most women are like, oh, I wish, oh my gosh, I would love to feel protected, provided for, to be able to relax underneath Proverbs calls it, like the shade, the shade of a tree. I believe if there were shade there, most women would be like, let me chill and relax. You know, they need. Know that they're valued and loved. Most women would be like, Oh, I would love to submit if he had some brought me some leadership. Yeah. So to just know he has the potential of a leader, the vision of a leader, he's headed somewhere. He doesn't have to have it all figured out, but I know he's going somewhere. That to me is what you're looking for more than the nest egg is in place before you decide to get in a relationship. So from the flip side, as a man, I think the Lord, I think actually he this this conversation with with you right now is different than it was a year ago.
SPEAKER_01Oh, a thousand percent.
SPEAKER_02So I can hear, even in what you're saying, is that you're starting to think about feel a little bit like, hmm. Yeah, for sure. Relationship something like I'm kind of open to right now. Oh, a thousand percent. And if you were in a relationship with a young woman that you were starting to feel strongly about, I would feel comfortable with you starting that uh route because you don't have it all figured out. It's not like you have some big savings account and you've got a job and the benefits and you don't have all that figured out, but I know you're headed somewhere. She would be able to see that too. I think her parents would look at you at the position you're in right now and be like, oh yeah. This is a kid that I know has the desire, the potential, and the future movement to be able to take care of my daughter.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I got two things. Uh first thing is is uh I think it was hilarious. I hope some people do too. That there's a lot of women out there that are like, man, I if I just I would submit if I could find a good dude, and I'm like, yeah, that's true. Yes, I bet you would. But then there was someone said, oh gosh, someone said for y'all to not find any good dudes, a lot of y'all pregnant right now.
SPEAKER_00Oh my gosh. Wow.
SPEAKER_01I started a little sudden and jarring crying laughing. He was like, Y'all talking about you there ain't no good dudes out here, the dating pool sucks. A lot of y'all got babies, and you for no dudes to be good. Anyways, oh that was hilarious when I saw that. That's funny. Anyways, that's the I thought that was hilarious. I'm so sorry.
SPEAKER_02That was out of no order.
SPEAKER_01I thought that was so funny. Um, you said submission, and y'all just reminded me of it. Okay, thank you for sharing. Appreciate that. It's the brush and know that. Um, but the second thing is, I am like that. I feel like I need to have everything in order, yeah, especially financially, before I get a woman and or a girlfriend or whatever. So I definitely I don't I know that's not I know it's not like in my head, I don't have to have it all together. But like in my head, I just want to I have this, like, I want to give my wife this. I want to come up when we get married, I want to be able to buy a house and I want to be able to, you know, take care of her. We want to travel, you know, stuff. So I'm like, okay, I need to provide financially, I need to make sure that my life is structured like this before I even start dating, which is not necessarily the case because even my my cousin Ryan, he was like, when I was telling him all this, he was like, There is still a beauty in growing together in house. There is you right.
SPEAKER_02So so that's when you trust the timing of the Lord. Like she ain't here yet. She so ain't the the girl ain't here yet in your life. So go ahead and do that. But then at the right time, as you're walking on the path that God has for you, hopefully she's walking on the path God has for her. And then at the right time, it does like this. You don't know where on the continuum of your life it's gonna intersect. But you since you'll know, okay, the Lord brought her into my life, even if you don't have it all figured out yet, that's the point at which you'll decide. Okay, well, we'll grow together from this point forward. Yeah, but I think that's a decision you get to make. You know what I mean? On what you want to bring to the table when it's time.
SPEAKER_01Last question, wrapping it up.
SPEAKER_02Okay, last question. This is gonna be, I don't know that this is a quick answer.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02Okay. It's a very personal question. You might want to edit this out.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02If I'm correct, you are a virgin.
SPEAKER_01That's correct.
SPEAKER_02Okay. That's right. I think this is a great way for us to end this conversation. Okay, I'm scared. That that really is the scariest part of the question.
SPEAKER_01Oh. Yeah, I am.
SPEAKER_02You are. That's a big deal. There are very few 21-year-old men or women that have made enough daily conscious decisions with accountability and hard practical lines in the sand to be 21 and have maintained their virginity. So I'm thinking about the young person that's sitting on the other side of the screen. They have that desire, actually, don't know how to practically figure that out because of the young person.
SPEAKER_01Are to continue being a virgin?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I'm trying to figure out what you would say are the actual uh I and there's lots of spiritual biblical things. I'm talking about practically. Right. What are some things you put in place to help hold yourself accountable and keep that line drawn?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's that's a hard question.
SPEAKER_02It is a hard question.
SPEAKER_01Because for me, a lot of it's just resolve. Like I've just resolved in my head that I'm not gonna do it.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01You just resolved to be decided with you. But you know what?
SPEAKER_02That's a big deal.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02It is a point of resolution in your life.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Well, some people resolution just may not be good enough because temptation is strong, the flesh is weak.
SPEAKER_02Did you have to have did you have to either have accountability or boundaries? Like, you know, sometimes in college people are like, okay, I'm not, I'm not gonna be alone in my bedroom, for example, with a girl watching a movie at dark at night. You know, was there any sort of okay, this is what I'm not doing so that I don't let that line blur?
SPEAKER_01You know, to be honest with you, there should have been more. Um, but you know, this is gonna sound crazy, okay, but a lot of my accountability came from everybody knowing that I was. And that, and so in my head, I knew that if I ever did it, I would, I would have let that accountability down in a way. Like they knew I was, so if I did, they'd be like, I thought you was doing a, you know what I'm saying? So I was always like, I'm gonna make sure that what I said I was gonna do, I'm gonna do for the people that I said I was gonna do it to. You know what I'm saying? So I did that. Definitely God's grace in a lot of situations that I shouldn't have been in that I still got out of. Um, but even for the most part, I'm just good at saying no. Like I'm just being like, hey, are you trying to do no? Like I wouldn't have a random girl in my room, but I do have friends that are girls that I have watched movies with in my room and really just chilled and just laughed and had fun. Yeah, for real. Laying in the bed? I'm pretty sure maybe 1% up laying down. I don't know. I don't know, I didn't think about it like that. But it wasn't, it was literally like, yeah, it was very, it was very like, didn't even think about it. Platonic just like didn't even think about it. Didn't like it never crossed. Like it didn't even cross my mind. We just watched movies and chill and laugh.
SPEAKER_02But then there were those times where there was that little electricity there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, for sure. There had, but I knew that it was gonna be there before it happened, you know what I'm saying? Like I knew that that grew.
SPEAKER_02So why did you let it happen anyway? Because you just felt like I have enough resolve and scratch.
SPEAKER_01I have enough resolve, which I did, but you did, but I wouldn't encourage it. Yeah, I wouldn't encourage it, but I did. So yeah, I I have a little bit of a different most people.
SPEAKER_02But I think you also need to watch that as you get older. Oh, for sure. Because there are a lot of people who are resolved, strong people, uh-huh, but they they allow themselves to get in situations that it's just overwhelming.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And also, like, I I know it'll be harder when I actually have someone that I really, really like like that. Of course. You know what I'm saying? I ain't never really, really, really liked someone to and had them also in the same bedroom chilling, watching the movie. I ain't never had that. So I knew it would be different if I actually felt something for real for somebody, and then it's like, okay, yeah, this little different, you know what I'm saying? So when you have that combination, sir. Yeah, that's when I'm like, okay, bedroom door closed, no bedroom, out in the open living room. You know what I'm saying? Correct. I'll make those for that person.
SPEAKER_02But don't you worry about that because now my son has moved back home because college is over and he lives in my house. Let me tell you where they're not gonna be. In your room with the door closed. I can tell you that. We don't we didn't we don't go up, we don't do that. We didn't get to do that when we were growing up. We didn't have nobody of the opposite sex in our room.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that is a lot. That's not happening. That's a lot. And and that's okay with me because we're not doing anything anyway.
SPEAKER_02Correct. So it doesn't even matter to me. Well, I'm proud of you. I know I say that all the time, but in regards to relationships, the fact that you have um made certain decisions and that you even even putting the morality aside, the decisions you made that I know I won't be able to give a girlfriend high school, college, I won't be able to give them probably what they deserve. It's gonna drain me of attention and energy and investment. I'm supposed to be giving to other goals in my life. The fact that you decided that even in high school, it's a very mature decision. Thanks. And I think it would help a lot of people have less baggage when they go into marriage if they were just sort of like, you know what, I'm not gonna give this my best right now. Let me just stop playing games before I get there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_02So I think this is gonna be really encouraging to a lot of folks your age and probably beyond who are not married yet, but they're 35. Yeah, right. To think through where they are.
SPEAKER_01I think it's all practical biblical stuff, so it applies to everybody in the world.
SPEAKER_02Thanks, JC.
SPEAKER_01Thanks, Ma. This was a great conversation. This is phenomenal, amazing, high five. Let's hold it the best, bro. No, you keep doing it.
SPEAKER_02I want to hold hands.
SPEAKER_01You the best. We'll see y'all later. Bye.