Full Fledged Podcast
Full Fledged is a powerful mother and son podcast with Jerry "JC" Shirer Jr and Priscilla Shirer. The dynamic duo is here to bring you laughter, joy, and a lot of wisdom from their brutally honest conversations
Full Fledged Podcast
Why Does Hearing God Feel So Confusing
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In this episode of Full Fledged, JC Shirer and Priscilla Shirer have an honest conversation about the tension so many people feel when trying to hear God clearly. They talk about slowing down, dealing with distractions, trusting God in seasons of silence, and learning that hearing Him often comes through relationship, not pressure or perfection.
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When you delight yourself in the Lord, He's giving you the desires of your heart, meaning He's shaping your desires so that they start to reflect His.
SPEAKER_00That's good, that's good.
SPEAKER_03So it doesn't mean He gives you what you want. It means what you want is what He's actually giving you the desire to want. Hello, JC Shire.
SPEAKER_07Hey mom, I'm doing some on Instagram really quick, and you're mad at me because you You're literally on Instagram and we're starting our recording. You don't want me to be on it, but I just really want to do this thing real quick. You got the people love you, I promise. Just go ahead and lock us in. Start us off right.
SPEAKER_03This is terrible. This is like being at dinner with someone or at lunch with somebody, and they are sitting across the table from you on a phone. That's that's I don't even know why are we here if you're gonna be on your phone.
SPEAKER_07No, mom, um mom, it's it's like it's for full-fledged. I'm I'm I'm you're posting something? I'm posting on full-fledged. Or reposting.
SPEAKER_03Hello, everyone. Welcome to the podcast where clearly I'm the only involved participant uh in this particular episode. I don't know what he's over there doing, but we welcome you. I welcome you to full-fledged the homie podcast, where we are at home, clearly not really invested and engaged in conversations with one another. Um, but we're glad you're here anyway.
SPEAKER_07And I did it.
SPEAKER_03Got it. Are you finished? I'm finished. You feel satisfied and content now?
SPEAKER_07I feel good. I I it's hard for me to be doing something to stop. This is your dad. I have to finish what I start. I I can't just be almost done and then be like, oh, I'll do it in 45 minutes. Also, no, I forget. So you will forget. I have to, I gotta, if I start something, I gotta finish it and I finished it. Thank you, London, for posting that. That was great, real. And I just reposted it and it's great. Y'all go check it out.
SPEAKER_03Amazing. Now we can do our opening song. Hey, hey, the word of the Lord, the word of the Lord, Spirit of God, Holy Spirit, uh-huh.
SPEAKER_07Fall upon us today. Hallelujah.
SPEAKER_01This is this is not starting off very well at all.
SPEAKER_07It is the day of the Lord, He has made it, and we shall rejoice in it.
SPEAKER_03I do not know what is going to happen on this episode because clearly we are just sort of random this morning. However, we are glad you're here. And today we are talking about a topic that is one that comes up in most people's spiritual life.
SPEAKER_07A thousand percent.
SPEAKER_03It's uh one of the foundational questions that most of us as believers who are trying to grow grow in our relationship with the Lord will constantly ask. And it's how do I discern the voice of God?
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So that's the conversation today. It's gonna be an interesting conversation. So, JC, what are your thoughts around or questions about hearing God?
SPEAKER_07Okay, let me start finding this. You wrote a book about this. I uh, of course, didn't read it. Of course not. I have had a lot of questions about how to hear the voice of God, but not once have I ever thought, let me read your book about it. I'm seeing now that maybe I should have, but if I'm gonna be completely honest, I probably will never read that. So uh y'all should though. Y'all should definitely go and read discerning the voice of God or hearing the voice of God. Which one is it? Uh is it discerning or hearing?
SPEAKER_03It's called discerning the voice of God.
SPEAKER_07Discerning the voice of God. It's written by my mom, so I know it's phenomenal. So go ahead and you know what I'm saying. Lock that in if you want to get that. But, anyways, um, so hearing the voice of God. It's I feel like it's very hard to hear the voice of God. Um I don't necessarily understand it all the way. I feel like I'm learning a little bit, and I feel like I have some knowledgeable things that I can say out of my mouth just because I know it. Yeah. But actually doing it and practicing it and l it is is different because you you you go through I've I maybe out of experiences of other people or most people that I've talked to, not sure how it actually is, but a lot of people don't hear the voice of God audibly from you know, I just I I'm I'm sure I heard have heard people who do. I just don't, and maybe a lot of people that I talk to don't either. So I'm like, okay, what are other ways you're supposed to hear the voice of God? And I think it can be hard because when we think hear, we think ear and actually listening, when the Bible probably mentions references it as a metaphorical listening, be catered to, pay attention, not actually just voice. So, anyways, all those thoughts are in my head right now. Um, how to hear the voice of God, not all the way, sure, wrestling through it, but that's my feelings about it right now. So I'm just here to learn. Mom, help me.
SPEAKER_03Well, first of all, let me say that just because I've written on it uh certainly does not make me an expert on it. I think it is one of the disciplines of the faith that you're maturing and growing in for your entire life with God. I also think that that allows you a little bit of grace in knowing like you never arrive. But no, you're growing and constantly the Lord is maturing and honing in you an ability for your spiritual ear to hear his voice. Um, there is a guy named Henry Blackaby, who now I know you are aware of who this is. Um he's in heaven now. If you're not aware of who Henry Blackaby is, you need to get everything he's written. But there is a book um called uh Experiencing God. Experiencing God, the workbook. The workbook that you work through kind of like a devotional is amazing. But I salvaged to say he was at our church, this gotta be 15, 20 years ago. And I asked him, because he's written on hearing God. I asked him, How do you know when you've heard from God? At the time, he must have been in his 70s when he answered this question. So here's a man that has written a book that millions of people have read. Millions of people. It's like a legendary book, it's 30 years old. Millions of people have their lives have been enriched by it. Um, so I'm I'm ready for a seminary class kind of answer. Like I remember I had a pen out. I was like, How do you know when you're heard from God? And his response was like, you know, Priscilla, 70 something years old. You know, Priscilla, um, actually, the only time I really ever really know for sure that I've heard from God is after the fact. It's in looking back and realizing that what I thought God said and I did actually there's proof there that that is what God indeed said. So here's somebody 70 something, and he's still saying, Oh, I'm still working on it. The only 100% way I know is after the fact. He's also he also said to me, and Priscilla, you know what I've learned? That my mistakes in hearing God have actually, in God's grace, become the best teachers for the future. Because instead of um being antagonistic towards me or judging me for missed mishearing, he's actually allowed those moments to become teachers to show me in the future how to more clearly hear him. So he was basically saying, You're gonna be growing in this your whole life. His grace is sufficient for your missteps. So just have a heart that desires to hear you, hear him. And I believe it's like maybe John chapter 17. We're gonna have to get the reference right, John chapter four. I don't know, somewhere in John. To the one who desires to know his will, he will know it. The Lord knows when your heart posture is that you really want to honor him, you want to know his will. And then he kind of puts the burden and responsibility on himself to make sure that you have clarity. Um, so I guess I wanted to start with that. It's it's not really a direct answer to the question, but it does take the burden off of you because there's this fear that can paralyze you. Oh no, I'm not gonna hear from God. And then you do nothing because you don't think you're capable of hearing from God. You know what I'm saying? Or am I getting it right? God's grace is sufficient. Like relax into the rhythms of grace with this part of your life, as I've had to do with mine.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You know?
SPEAKER_07Yeah. Um, in response to that, I feel like um there are times when yes, it's so easy to get paralyzed by the right decision. Because there are like, like, I guess when I talk to a lot of my friends about this um when I'm going through it, or they are, it's like we we just want to be in God's perfect will. And we think that, you know what? Actually, there's a situation that this happened. I was riding in the car with one of my friends, and she was trying to move to Dallas. And she was like, she was just I don't know what to do, like I don't know what God is saying, whatever, whatever. And she was like, you know, I'm just not gonna do anything, basically. And I was like, Wait, wait a minute, that can't, I'm not sure how to tell you it's not right, but that just can't be right. And so she was like, she was like, she literally got gets paralyzed, she got paralyzed by the fear of not being in God's perfect will. She literally said that I want to be in God's perfect will. I'm like, so she didn't do anything. I was like, not being God's perfect will is such a paralyzing thing, and even it is for me too, like because I want to be in line with what God is saying, yeah. Um and so I just want to make the right decision every time because I feel like the wrong decision puts me outside of his perfect will. So can you I guess answer the question does the doing the wrong decision put you outside of God's perfect will? Like, how does that work?
SPEAKER_03Obviously, it can, but uh it his grace is sufficient. That's the bottom line, this whole conversation. His grace covers the missteps. Meaning, if you're driving from here to downtown Dallas, so we live in Dallas and there's a major freeway that if you put in your GPS going to down a restaurant in downtown Dallas, there is one major route it's gonna take you, I-35. Okay. If you take a wrong turn, the GPS recalibrates. It doesn't mean you won't ever make it to the restaurant in downtown Dallas. It means that the GPS system is able to recalibrate and even take you a completely different route, but still get you to the destination. So you are not powerful enough to work yourself out of God's will for you. Okay. It is possible that you're so derailed in sin and rebellion and a refusal to honor him that it gets you off track and you don't make it.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But it's more likely, especially if you're describing what you're describing, we're talking about somebody who wants to honor God, somebody who desires to get to where he's called them. He, his grace is so sufficient that even your missteps, mistakes, I exited the wrong place, I took the wrong turn, I was uh busy talking to other people in the car and totally ignored that one step that the GPS told me. Whatever the reasons are, he is powerful enough to recalibrate the GPS and still get you there. Okay. Yeah. Now, here's what I'm gonna tell you because this is important. The primary way God speaks is through his word. It is not an audible voice. So if you're waiting on anything that looks and feels like signs and wonders to hear from God, you need to know that is not the primary way God speaks anymore. In the Old Testament, donkeys were talking, prophets were walking around, red seas were splitting, there was a fire of cloud at night, pillar of cloud during the day. Sometimes we look at the Old Testament record of God speaking. There were Theophanies, God appearances, and you know, Gideon's putting out fleece, make it a little wet here, not wet if it's not you, you know. So we're looking at that in the Old Testament, and sometimes we can be like, God, can't you just speak like that? So we know that it's you. Like, if this is the job I'm supposed to take, would you make it so that tomorrow at noon a red bird lands on the telephone pole that's right outside the kitchen window? We want God to speak that way. But the people in the Old Testament wish they had what we have. Ooh.
SPEAKER_07Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow.
SPEAKER_03The reason why God spoke in external ways in the Old Testament is because the Holy Spirit was not with them. Are you about to do that? I mean, seriously.
SPEAKER_07Oh my god, JC. Boy, sit down. That's crazy. No, that was crazy. I gotta give you some double that. I am you spitting. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Well, if you don't sit down, the the thing, the ring, excuse me.
SPEAKER_02You so churchy. Just sit down.
SPEAKER_07I don't, I think my done broke my mic almost. Oh my gosh. The read say that, please. Please say, I'm sorry, Mr. David. You're gonna have to help me with the mic and though making a lot of reverb. But don't you think? You did too much. Um the the the mic and the interference or whatever. You just go ahead and run that back. Oh my gosh, I was comfortable too. I had I'm oh my gosh, oh my gosh. I don't know why that just I go. You good? Yeah, I'm good.
SPEAKER_03Everybody ready? Yeah, okay. Yep. In the old testament, the Holy Spirit was only given to a certain per person for a specific time period to accomplish a specific task. When that task was over, or when the person sinned and dishonored God, the Holy Spirit would leave them, which is why you have David praying at one point in the old testament, Lord, please do not take your spirit from me. They did not have this constant presence of God with them, so they had to count on external means to hear from God. They wish they had the Holy Spirit. So when Jesus came, crucified, ascended, uh crucified, resurrected, ascended, he left the Holy Spirit and he said to the disciples, I am leaving you another helper of the same kind, meaning I will not be here in my physical presence. But he said, It's better for you that I go. Why? Because in the body, Jesus was restricted by flesh. He could only be in one place at one time, talking to one group of people or one person. Yeah, he couldn't be everywhere when he leaves. The Holy Spirit now indwells every single believer who placed faith in him. And one of the primary responsibilities, joys, jobs of the Holy Spirit is to give us, he fits us. This answers another one of your question. He fits us with spiritual ears to hear. Okay. So now there's conviction. Now there is a radar that's up that makes you detect spiritual things that the natural man cannot appraise the things of the spirit. But when you're fitted with spiritual ears, you're able to see, oh, that right there is shimmering with God's presence or shimmering with something sacred. There's more to it than just it's like the stars aligned and there's an opportunity and an open door for me. No, that's God's footprints right there. That's the ears to hear. But the primary way he speaks in conjunction with the Holy Spirit. So if somebody tells me they want to hear from God and they never read the Bible, you will never hear from God. Because now you have his word in full in the scriptures. So what happens is what is going on, y'all?
SPEAKER_07Okay, look, the last four years of my life have been completely transformational. Like, I mean, I'm talking about I'm talking about 180, right? And a big part of that was because of Liberty University. Liberty University is a phenomenal place. The coaches, the staff, the teachers, everybody that I encountered seemed like to have a true, genuine love for Jesus and a want for their students to grow and actually become champions for Christ. Like it's real. They have convocation every month, every Wednesday or Friday. They have campus community every Wednesday. As a residential student, I was so impacted by everything that they had, especially the basketball team that I was a part of for four years. It just was a great experience. And if you want to become part of the Liberty family, whether as an online student, they have the biggest one in the world, or as a residential student, I have the way for you. Go to liberty.edu slash full fledged, and you can get your application fee waived, and you can come join the family just like I am now.
SPEAKER_03You're reading along, and the Holy Spirit does what the old preachers used to say, illumines the scriptures. That means he shines a spotlight on this verse, this story, this word, this one part, this line. You have read it a million times before, but on that day you're reading it, or the pastor's preaching on it. And I mean, it like leaps up off the page and smacks you over the head. And for the first time, you see how that applies to something that's actually happening in your life right now that you need clarity on. And and and it's illuminated, it jumps up off the page. This is God speaking. The pastor's preaching, you feel like you're the only person in the room. This is God speaking. Um, and then because God is so merciful, I'm on my soapbox right now. You good?
SPEAKER_07I got yeah, you good.
SPEAKER_03Then, because God is so merciful, and I did write about this in discerning the voice of God, that the primary way he speaks is through his word and the confirmation of his spirit, the illumination of his spirit. But then because he's so merciful, there are other what I call M's of hearing God. Okay. One of them is the mercy of confirmation. This is where external factors come in. Because he knows we're just flesh, he knows there's a bunch of white noise all around us that kind of keeps us from clearly hearing. He knows that we take wrong turns because we weren't listening to the GPS. If we say, Lord, will you confirm? Okay, I don't know if you want me to take this job or just job. I'm feeling this direction right here. Feels like one of the other M's is the ministry of Eli, which is the wise counsel. Remember how the little boy Samuel didn't know it was God speaking to him in 1 Samuel chapter 3? And then he had to uh uh depend on Eli, the wise mature priest, saying, That's God right there. You need the ministry of Eli in your life. So once you feel like all that's coming together, ask God for the mercy of confirmation. Lord, would you do something in the regular rhythms of my everyday life? Would you open up my spiritual eyes to see confirmations? The bigger the decision I have to make, the more I wait for the confirmation. Because if a plane is gonna land and it's got all these passengers on it, the pilot better not be looking for one light. The pilot better be looking for a bunch of lights that are aligning a path before he lands that 737. The bigger the decision that needs to be made, the more people that will be impacted by this landing, the more lights I ought to wait for to illumine the path that I'm landing on. And I'm saying that God is so gracious that he gives you lights. Now, the lights aren't the primary way. You better be in touch with the control tower, Pilate. Okay. So this is the control tower. The Holy Spirit is the one that convicts you, challenges you feel a warmth in your spirit. Remember in Luke chapter 24, there were two men on the road to Emmaus. They were talking with Jesus, they didn't know it was Jesus, and then at the end, Jesus disappears and they go, Didn't our hearts burn within us when he was talking? That's conviction. See what I'm saying? Oh, that's right. So you got that. You got that feeling like, oh my gosh, wait a minute. Something just there's something weighty on that. That is what you're expecting. And look at that's the primary way God speaks. Not an audible voice, not a bird landing on a light pole, not a fleece putting out all these things for God. No. But then after you feel like you're hearing God, wise mentors have said, seems like God. Then say to him, Lord, would you give me the mercy of confirmation? Would you illumine my path with some random conversations I overhear? I watch three different um one YouTube video, one sermon, and one uh Instagram reel, and they all saying the same thing, pointing me in the same direction that I already feel you so it's not the primary way, but he's merciful enough to give us that way.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. Uh I mean, sermon right there. Uh maybe I should read the book.
SPEAKER_03This this is the well, I just think I'm still needing to read books on hearing God. Because it's it's kind of like you're just saying, Lord, would you would you help my spiritual ears to continually be refined so that I'm hearing you? But that can't happen if you're not in the word. Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_07Can I can I say something else? Yeah, I I can just know just know I got stuff when you're done.
SPEAKER_03I got so many things to say, but let me just say this.
SPEAKER_07Okay.
SPEAKER_03One of the main reasons you're reading the scriptures is not for answers. Okay, it's not to hear God. The main reason is because you're getting to know God. The more I know God, this is something Henry Blackaby said, the more I know God, the more clearly I can hear God. Okay. Anthony and Daddy, my brother and daddy, same name. You know they kind of are built the same, they walk the same, they sound similar, whatever. When we were growing up, I saw Anthony like trick people. People would call this house that we're sitting in right now, they would think they were talking to daddy.
SPEAKER_07That's hilarious.
SPEAKER_03He would like get the information from the person, like, what is it you call it for? And then he'd be like, Hold on, let me get daddy. The person on the other end of the line did not know they weren't talking to the right Tony. Okay. But if Daddy or Anthony call me, I know in the first six seconds of the phone call, they don't even have to say nothing. The way they're breathing or the time they called lets me know which one of the two Anthonies I'm talking to. Why? Because I've spent my whole life getting to know them. Okay. So the enemy disguises himself like an angel of light. He don't come with a red jumpsuit on and a pitchfork and say, hey, it's me. No. His goal is to sound so close to truth that unless you've spent time getting to know the voice of the father, the character of the father, you can't differentiate between the two. So when you go to the scriptures, it's not because I'm trying to get an answer. No. What does this tell me about God's character? His personality? What he would say, what he wouldn't say, direction he does give, doesn't give. Because the more I know him, the more when the stranger speaks or fear talks, ego is always trying to get a word in edgewise. I'll be able to go, oh no. No. This don't sound like this don't sound like him because I've spent time getting to know him. That's why we're in the word.
SPEAKER_07I mean, uh there's there's my brain is overloading with the amount of questions and stuff.
SPEAKER_03It's so much, I know.
SPEAKER_07I know, but that was so good. Okay. My first thing, you like you kind of like briefly skimmed over this part, but I kind of think it's would be necessary to highlight um that I guess if we use the same GPS illustration going on. Back to that. Um, that like God's grace is so abounding and just amazing that you make the wrong turn, it recalibrates, whatever. But like can we talk about the reverence that needs to be had still for making the the the wrong turn? Not the the unintentional wrong turn, not the the I tried my best wrong turn, but the but the God's grace is about so I can make the wrong turns if I feel like it's gonna be best for me. Like I I think about it, and I guess let me know if this is a proper illustration. Um, that you keep making the wrong turns, that God has you go into a certain place. You keep making the wrong turns where at some point you run out of gas and you don't make it to where he's calling you to make it. Like, is that kind of how that works?
SPEAKER_03That that is yeah, that's very possible. It's like Moses didn't go into the promised land.
SPEAKER_07So he didn't he was supposed to?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and then he he said, He made choices that kept him from being the one. Yeah, Joshua went in with him.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, so yeah, it is possible that you work yourself out of yeah, and it's not that God's grace isn't sufficient, it God's grace is sufficient because you alive. Right. I mean, seriously, that we're alive after all of our missteps and mistakes and and conscious rebellion, and we still here with breath in our lungs, his grace is sufficient. Yeah, but yes, could you forfeit? I I heard somebody say once one of their greatest fears is getting to heaven and seeing what they would have gotten, seeing what God had planned for them, but he he couldn't give it to them because they wouldn't obey.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. And I think that's a keep it keep it a buck, like I think that's the one of the biggest things that I see of people my age is they're living in they're continually making the wrong decisions. Like deliberately. Deliberately. Like I'm talking about, they could tell me out of their mouth, I know that I should not be doing this, but I'm going to continue to do it for whatever the reason is. I think it's more fun than living a life according to what God says. They they like this feeling better, whatever it is. Um, and they do it and they always come up with the excuse, but God's grace is yeah, is is sufficient. Like, you know, like he's gonna be. Where's the I need the pause, the verse for what Paul says?
SPEAKER_03I mean, Romans chapter six.
SPEAKER_07Six.
SPEAKER_03Paul is like, shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Like just because we know that grace is overflowing and that he's so good and merciful, does that mean it's a license to sin? And he's like, No, like exclamation point. May it never be. How are we who are dead to sin still living in it? Like you're you're living in a way that is completely antagonistic to the new life of Christ that is in you. Don't do it. Like that's basically what he's saying. Stop.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So you're right that you have to acknowledge and have a reverence for honoring Christ and not choosing to be carnal in your Christianity.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. I um okay. The second thing I'm gonna say is this is kind of how I a version of how I hear God, and I want you to know or tell me if this is the right the right line of thinking or not the right line of thinking. So in Genesis 39, chapter 39, you know, it's talking about Joseph being sold into slavery, all the things. Then in chapter 41, it goes to when he's in Potiphar and Pharaoh's house. And um, Potiphar and Pharaoh, pagan kings, they do not believe in Jesus or God, or do not believe in God. And um, he's in this house, and they're saying, it says over and over again, the Lord is with him, so he's successful. Send along the lines of that. Um, and then you see Potiphar start to give Joseph these uh things or these assets or whatever Potiphar's whatever responsibilities to be managed to manage over, to look over. And then he just keeps getting more and more and more like things to look over until he's like, you know, this person looking over all Potiphar or Pharaoh's stuff. And so I when I think about that, I look at hearing the voice of God, hearing what God's trying to tell me to do or what to do, whatever, by how things are aligning around me. So, like, like like I said, Potiphar and Pharaoh were not were did not believe in the God of Israel. So it was cool to me to see how God moved their heart, shifted their position, made them work in such a way that his plan ultimately came true, regardless of uh their standing with God. Like God makes the rock move if he wants to you, if he doesn't want you to trip over the rock. You know what I mean? Like it doesn't matter who or what it is, his plan always prevails. And so I always try to look at my surroundings and say, okay, what is out of my control that just seems like it's in this area that is like, huh? Yeah, I didn't make that happen there. Like maybe that's God trying to move or position something to make it to where he's trying to get my attention or confirm something or align me or direct me into a different way. And then I feel like I started paying attention to that and started seeing it a lot of places in my life. Like, this would be doing this over here, and this would be moving over here. I'm like, I didn't do any of that. But it seems like all this is aligning a thing that's just you know moving.
SPEAKER_03I would I would completely agree. And I think that that would connect then with part of the way we're praying. Our prayer should also be Lord, would you open my spiritual eyes to see that? What you just said. Open up my spiritual eyes so that I don't miss what some would call an interruption to my schedule, to my plan, to my goals. I would see them as divine interruptions if that's what they are. Redirecting me, helping me to see this is a closed door on purpose. And you're trying to open this door. Help me to not keep trying to force open the door. You're closing because you're trying to get me over here. Like, yes, like praying for the spiritual sensitivity to be able to detect the difference and have an awareness of those sorts of things. I completely agree. I could look back over, and this leads to something that's important for me to say, but I could look back over my life now. And most of the time when I when God was speaking, there was a convergence of circumstances that went a direction that kind of like Harry Henry Blackaby said, in hindsight, I look back and go. Right. But in the moment, I was just doing the next thing. I was just walking in the next bit of path that was in front of me, illumined to walk. And some of it felt bad because it was closed doors. It was no's. It was, uh, you really want to date that guy, but he don't want to be in a relationship with you. Boop. Didn't feel good in the moment. But then in hindsight, you look back and you're like, Lord, thank you for prayers that you said no to. Thank you for requests that you didn't answer the way that I would have preferred because it wouldn't have set me on the path that you had for me. You know this, but like where I wanted to go to college, I wanted to go to Spelman. And it's I won't tell the whole story here because I feel like I already have, but um, I wanted to go to Spelman, had an opportunity to go to Spelman, but circumstances weren't working out for me to go to Spelman. And I mean, to this day, I'm still like, oh man, I want to go to Spelman. But the Lord redirected my path to University of Houston. And it was while I was at University of Houston that I started getting pegged to come speak at small little Bible studies. Would that have happened if I were at Spelman? I have no idea. Maybe. All I know is it's because I was interning at a radio station while at U of H that people started going, hey, will you come and just do this for 10 women, eight women, six women? Sometimes I show up there'd be 40 of them there. I'm 18 years old and I'm just sharing the Bible, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's been my whole life now for 25, 26 years. And I was not where I thought I should be. But that door was closing and God was opening up this door. So you're exactly right. It's like we're, Lord, just start helping me to relax into what you are allowing or disallowing and to take that as my cue that this is leadership from you. This is your voice. Okay. Here's what I want to say.
SPEAKER_07Okay, I got some after that.
SPEAKER_03Here's what I want to say. This comment is based on the person that desires to know God's will, is following God. It doesn't mean they're perfect, doesn't mean they don't never they never sin. And I'm not saying that. Overall, your desire is to honor God, okay? This comment is for that person. For that person who is seeking God regularly, all that. I would say to you, What do you want to do? You got two options in front of you, your friend that was deciding which job to take, moving to Dallas, whatever, and she was paralyzed. I would have asked her, because if it's who I think you're talking about, this person wants to honor God, wants to live right, wants to wants to honor him with their overarching life. I would have said to her, which one do you want to do? Because when you delight yourself in the Lord, he's giving you the desires of your heart, meaning he's shaping your desires so that they start to reflect his.
SPEAKER_00That's good. That's good.
SPEAKER_03So it doesn't mean he gives you what you want. It means what you want is what he's actually giving you the desire to want. So I would say for the person that's honoring God, that's right. For the one who's that's the caveat. You out here in these streets, I'm not talking to you. I'm talking to the person that you're trying to honor God.
SPEAKER_07Right.
SPEAKER_03I would ask you, which one do you want?
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And then I would say, okay, the Lord's giving me a piece about this one. I desire this one. All right. Now let me ask wise counsel. Let me make it a matter of prayer. Let me ask him for the mercy of confirmation. I would start asking him for the bullet points around the desire. And then this is so freeing. It has been so freeing in my life. As you the Lord allows those things, move forward. And Isaiah, I'm not good with scripture references, Isaiah something. As you move forward, you will hear a voice behind you saying, This is the way, walk in it. If you go to the left or the right, you will hear a voice behind you. Conviction is real. When I have been doing something that was not sin, it was just the direction I was going. So I'm not talking about sin. I'm talking about I was just deciding to do this. Man, if it was not in God's will, I could count on the fact there would be unrest. Like I'd be like, something about this, don't feel right. Like up at night, you know that that night before Christmas feeling, that anxiety, that little bit of anxiousness, and you don't know if it's not the night before Christmas, you're like, why do I have that pit in my stomach? I would have that. I started to rely on that. Okay, Lord, I think this is what you have for me to the best of my ability. I think that's what you have. So I'm gonna move forward. If in any way I'm going to the left or the right, I'm gonna trust that I'm gonna hear a voice behind me redirecting me, saying, This is the way, walk in it. So until unless and until I feel that conviction that this ain't right, then I'm gonna keep going in the direction that I feel compelled to go because I'm I'm I'm assuming you're supporting me in that. And then I'm gonna trust that your voice is loud enough you can even make my physical body react if I'm not going in the right direction. I'm gonna trust that.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You know, you know what?
SPEAKER_07Okay, this just came to me. You know what I feel like a lot of people do, including myself, is I try to try to I try to force God's voice. Like, and I I try to make him not just make him say what I want him to say for sure.
SPEAKER_01For sure. We all do that.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, but also make him speak when I want him to speak. I think that's a big thing. Like, I will like I I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of people out there like me because we are ratchet. Um I'm impatient, I get it. Yeah, and I'm just like it's so uncomfortable to wait on God to say something because you feel like all the opportunities in the doors are closing quickly. And so I I mean that's the same thing with me, like being in basketball for four years. There were all these things that I wanted to do related to speaking or you know, whatever podcasting or whatever, right? Like, you know, all that like people, I guess this is actually a good example. People might relate to this because they were if they've been in the podcast for a while. Um, what was it, October, where I was like, hey, yo, y'all, we gotta take a little break because I gotta finish college and all these things. Like, that was not fun and easy for me at all. I hated doing that. I would have rather have flew back home and been doing this and on a podcast and been loving it, but I had to stop that um because I had to do other things that God was calling me to do. And so it it was like I I I like hearing God say what I want him to say when I want him to say it. I would have loved for him to be like, oh no, like let me open up this couple days that you weren't expecting for you to be able to go home and record the podcast. Yeah, that didn't happen. So I was like, oh shoot, all right. So it's one of those things where me personally, as an impatient person, I like to just make up stuff in my head or make up signs are happening around me. That must be God saying that. And he's like, that ain't me.
SPEAKER_03So, like, see, he's so much more interested in us looking like him than hearing from him. We want the solutions, he wants us to look like Jesus. So, in those moments, he's forming you into the image of Christ. Patience. The waiting allows that for you to love his presence more than you love his answers. We want answers, solutions. Let's go. And he's like, I'm actually trying to make you look like Jesus.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So he's more interested in the formation of our souls than we are.
SPEAKER_07Than we are. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And that's I'm gonna be honest, that's really hard. Of course. Because being like Jesus is hard. Um, like correct, you know what I mean? Like being patient is not fun. I don't like being patient. I don't like being kind all the time. I don't like correct. I don't like all that. And so when God is trying to sanctify me by not speaking, that that feels frustrating. I'm not gonna lie.
SPEAKER_03But he is speaking, he's just not giving you the answer you want when you want it. No answer is not a non-answer. It means wait. That's the answer. The answer is wait, be patient. My timing got stuff in and my timing that is kingdom, it's bigger than what you're thinking about. It's lining up with future stuff that you don't even know about. But also, I'm lining you up so that you're ready for it when it comes. I'm getting your character formed. Um, there are other connections I need you to make down here. There are relationships you know, wait, hold on. If I give you this now, you're gonna miss out on all this stuff that is required to sustain you when you get there. So, so a non-answer really is him saying, I got you.
SPEAKER_07Wait, I'm forming you. And at that point, I we I feel like I you say at that point, right? I feel like we I always get to this part sometimes in a podcast where I'm like, because it's been such a big part of my life, yeah, is just being able to trust his timing and trust him saying weight.
SPEAKER_02Seriously.
SPEAKER_07Like it's so like looking back on it, I'd be like, I yeah, you know, like I see what he was doing, but in the moment, oh, it's horrible. Totally, it's horrible.
SPEAKER_03Well, for the rest of your life, it's gonna be that way. Not horrible, because you because the older I get, the truth is the more relaxed I can be about it. Because there's enough of a track record now to know, you know, he he's got it. Um, but it is a constant, you just have to relax into the fact that if this is gonna be something I'm constantly growing at, that there's gonna be frustrations about, that I'm gonna have to kind of go back to the Lord and say, now what? But I do think that's why for the rest of your life and the rest of my life, we're going to have to have older, wiser, mature believers around us who can help us with this part.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Because when we're waiting or we feel like the answer is no, or it's yes, but we're unclear, we're not sure, blah, blah, blah. That's why you got to have people around you to go, let me pray about that with you that love you enough to listen, that love you enough to pray with you about something, and then to either confirm or say, no. I mean, oh my gosh, JC, my whole life is a testament in this. Okay, this is what some people do not know. So Anthony is the singer in our family, but me and Crystal both sang. Jonathan's the only one who's tone-deaf. Jonathan would rap.
SPEAKER_07He could not say.
SPEAKER_03Apparently, you got your tone-deafness from Uncle Jonathan.
SPEAKER_07I'm not tone deaf. I think you are. No, I can hear tones merging and and and locking. I can hear it. You can't, babe. It's okay. I'm getting Uncle Nene over here.
SPEAKER_03Uh, it's all right. Um, the point is before Uncle Nene was singing, Anthony was singing, I was singing. I auditioned for this group called Truth. I will never forget the day they said, Would you come sing for us? And I did. And because um, I just remember being real free during the audition. I was, I didn't feel stiff, I didn't feel like, oh no, they're reevaluating me. I was just singing. Somebody played Amazing Grace and I sang it. They wanted me to sing it straightforward, then they wanted me to sing it like a gospel singer. And I sang it both ways, and they were, I just remember looking over and they were looking like, What? This girl can sing like that.
SPEAKER_07Oh, really? Yeah, like that.
SPEAKER_03They immediately said, Would you please come tour with us for two years? So it would be a two-year commitment. Wow. I was just out of the University of Houston. Oh my god. And they wanted me to travel with them. Oh, no, no, no. I called two people. I called Steve Green, whose name you might not know. Steve Green is one of the backbone legends of Christian music.
SPEAKER_06Okay.
SPEAKER_03Sandy Patty, Larnel Harris, Steve Green. See, these are people you you young and you don't have an appreciation for these people. No idea. Steve Green um had been to our church many times. I called Steve Green, and then the other person I called was Alicia Williamson. I called both of them, who are amazing. They had both been in truth and now both had their own individual solo careers that were very meaningful media careers. I asked them, Do you think that I should do this? Both of them said, We don't think so. I don't think that's the path for you. I remember Steve Green and his wife, Mary Jean Green, who also had been a part of truth. They met in truth, I believe. I remember both of them saying to me, Did we understand that maybe you were thinking about going to Dallas Theological Seminary or going to seminary or that you had been teaching little Bible studies? And I said, Yeah, but you know, I don't know. I'm just out of the University of Houston. I don't, I haven't really made any concrete decisions. And both of them said, all three of them really said, I think that's that's the direction God has for you. Just because this opportunity is here and it's all flashy and glamorous and looks amazing, they want you to come sing and you'll be on stages and microphones. Nope. We don't feel like that is confirmation or that that is the Lord leading you in that direction. It's a great opportunity, but no.
SPEAKER_07How hard was that?
SPEAKER_03It wasn't hard. Because all three of them said the same thing. I was like, oh, you ain't said nothing but a word.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, and I and I guess like, okay, you didn't you didn't really, you to my knowledge, you didn't care about music like that.
SPEAKER_03I loved singing in the sense that I love to sing. I love to sing. I had never thought of it like I would be a singer for a living. I guess I didn't pursue it um in that way, but I could have sung, like I would have enjoyed that. Um but I wasn't sure at that at that swirling vortex moment of my life, I wasn't sure what to do because I also loved radio and television, which is what I went to school for. And then I had also really started to like speaking every now and then when people invited me to do it. So I was kind of like, yeah, what do I want to do?
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And so when this opportunity came, though, what I'm saying to you is I would have done it had I not called those people. And them all said, they all said, no, some don't, some don't feel right about that. I'll never forget that. The the the ministry of those Eli's in my life at that moment. And I'm saying I still have that now. When I did movies, I called Tony Evans, I called Beth Moore, and I called John and Trina Jenkins. This is so off the beating path of my life. I've never done a film, I don't have any acting training. Um, the the movies seem to be ministry oriented, but it's still not in alignment with what I've done in terms of writing and speaking. So, do you guys feel like this is part and parcel with the direction for my life? And all three of them said, Yeah. I would not have done it if they hadn't said yes.
SPEAKER_07See, okay, so I feel like I would have been, that would have been hard for me because it I guess it depends, but it depends on how much you wanted the thing.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Right.
SPEAKER_07That's why I'm like, I feel like if if I had this amazing opportunity to speak somewhere, and I'm like, oh, that's gonna be great. Like, that's amazing. And then three of my mentors are like, nah, I'd be like.
SPEAKER_03Well, you either trust, you either trust it depends on who those mentors are.
SPEAKER_07I'm talking about like my people that I care about, like like my people that I talk to every week.
SPEAKER_03I think you would listen.
SPEAKER_07If you were a very teachable, it'd be very hard because I'm like, I'm just looking at it like, but this is literally the it seems like this is the opportunity that would get me to where I'm trying to go.
SPEAKER_03Well, I I should re-answer that question then. Was there an emotional component like, oh man, yes. Was it difficult? It wasn't difficult in the sense that I trusted those voices. So, in that sense, I get what you're saying. And I could point to some other things that actually brought tears to my eyes to not do or even to do out of fear, because I was like, Yes, sure, I should do this. And it was just like intimidating, or I felt insecure. So, yes, I felt the emotional component of it, but I I I'm grateful that I was at least, and I'm I again I have a fierce rebellious streak. So I'm not trying to paint myself like I just listened to all the wise voices in my life. No, I have a fierce rebel just rebellious streak. But I am grateful to say that for the most part, for major shifts in our ministry, business, career, whatever, or the raising of kids uh or marriage.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_03That I there when the voices that I trust have said yes or no, I have taken that seriously enough to go don't let my feelings override what these wise people are saying.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, because hearing the voice of God also comes from listening to the people above you.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, he utilizes, he utilizes the Eli's to help to steer us in the direction of His will. And I mean, to be honest with you, I'm gonna say it again because I think it's so important. The enemy wants us to be paralyzed with fear that we either don't have the capacity to hear from God or that hearing him is such a difficult task we won't ever be able to manage it. God is saying the opposite. He's saying John chapter 10, My sheep hear my voice. This is what my sheep do. Like he's like, Y'all making it difficult. The sheep hear hear the voice of the shepherd. That's what they do. So I'm saying if you're one of his sheep, what is the conviction in your heart? The conviction, that uneasiness or that peace, that release to do something, to not do something, the passion, the delight that stirred in you about something, the direction that you're receiving, the sermon that you heard, the notes you wrote down that come back to you, the the wise uh the wisdom of elders that are in your life, circumstances that are aligning. You're hearing the voice of God. And if in any way you are outside of his will, trust that he's powerful enough to convict you. And then ask him for the courage to respond in obedience once you know he's leading you to the right or the left. But the overarching release for us is his grace is sufficient.
SPEAKER_07We all about to lead this conversation here, and guys, something crazy. We're gonna be like, oh my gosh, epiphany.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_07This is a lot of things in this conversation that actually blew my mind.
SPEAKER_03Me too. I'm constantly growing in this way. So I'm grateful for the conversation because it helps me to be like re-inspired and re-energize. Like, Lord, I want to hear you, but as a delight, not like as a I can't do A or B until I hear from God. No, just like it's supposed to be a part of our relationship with each other. So I want, I want all the blessings that come with being in a relationship with each other.
SPEAKER_07That encouragement and that uh like freedom probably makes it a lot less pressurized for everybody watching. You know what I mean? Like God got it.
SPEAKER_03God's got it. It's his responsibility, the shepherd's responsibility to make sure that the sheep know his voice. The shepherd would make sure the sheep, he was constantly talking to the sheep. If one was rebellious, he'd pick that sheep up and put that sheep around his shoulder, that lamb around his shoulder, and walk with him for hours on end so that the sheep had no other thing to do except listen to the voice of the shepherd. So the shepherd would make it his job. That's what he's doing with us. He knows if you're rebellious like me. He knows if you have our hard of hearing, he knows if you have other tendencies, like he knows he's got you. Just delight yourself in him, he'll take care of the rest.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, that's dope. That's good. That's good. Great conversation, C's. That was great. I hope y'all were blessed too. Hope y'all liked it. Let's go. Peace out.
SPEAKER_03Have a good day.