Trail Talks

The Holiday Manual: Expectations, Neuroscience, and Letting Go

• Kelly • Season 1 • Episode 8

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0:00 | 52:41

In this week’s Trail Talks episode, we unwrap something almost all of us carry around during the holidays: the Holiday Manual — that invisible rulebook we expect other people to follow… even though we never actually tell them.

We dive into:
 🧠 Why our brains create expectations in the first place
 💬 How unspoken “manuals” shape our relationships and stress
 ✨ When expectations cross the line into disrespect — and why the Golden Rule always wins
📘 The difference between healthy standards and secret demands
🌟 Five simple tools to ditch the manual and enjoy the season with more connection

Then for the detour: my cousin Jill joins us with the hilarious story of the year her kids opened every single Christmas present without her 🤣🎁 — and we wrap things up by tier-ranking holiday movies.

Whether you love the holidays, dread them, or sit somewhere in between, this episode brings perspective, laughter, and the freedom to rewrite your own manual.

SPEAKER_02

Hey everyone, welcome to Trail Talks, the podcast where we talk about growth, the messy, the beautiful, the funny, and everything in between, and we take a few detours along the way. I'm your host, Kelly Kruger, founder of Kelly Michelle Coaching, where we specialize in mindset, emotional intelligence, life, and leadership. Helping people become the strongest, clearest, most grounded version of themselves. And with me, as always, my amazing co-host, Catwoman of V-Bore. My misfit, founder of Leading People LLC, my partner in growth and chaos, Tara Stanett. Welcome back, Tara. Hello, I'm so happy to be back.

SPEAKER_00

Partner in chaos is real.

SPEAKER_02

Yes. And we have a special guest joining us today. One of the kindest and most beautiful souls I know. She is joy, laughter, chaos, heart, and humor wrapped up into one person. And I am so honored to be related to her. And even more honored, she's joining us today. I'm telling you, and Jordan's favorite. If Jordan ever had to pick another mom, she would be in the top two. My cousin Jill. Please welcome Jill.

SPEAKER_01

Hey guys, thanks for having me, Kyle. I'm so excited to be here, you guys.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, how are we feeling today?

SPEAKER_01

Feel great. What's there to complain about? Bill's win Sunday. My in-family victory against Kelly Kruger in the family fantasy football league. Oh my god. So I have no complaints. All wins today.

SPEAKER_02

Enjoy it. Now, are you set up for the playoffs for our fantasy league?

SPEAKER_01

Tell, I was looking at this rankings today. By my calculations, I think I'll be four out of six after you drop, and I think it might be Aaron that dropped our cousin Aaron. So I will not make it to the playoffs. I think you're gonna be in the top six, but I you might be like five or six. Okay. What's wild is fantasy for me just makes watching football more exciting. If you're not introduced to fantasy football, it's not just like a guys' club type thing. It's really fun to be engaged during football Sunday, not only for your home team, but just in general for all the other players you have on your team. And our family football league is uh the utmost competitive. So we love to S talk and all that good stuff. So to be recording this podcast with you, Kelly, on the very day that I face you and I'm beating you a pulp. Oh my god. I don't know how you're doing it. Honestly, I I don't I always with all these wounds. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, I for the listeners, I don't look very upset right now. I always have a tough time drafting. I don't know what it is, and I think it's because I am the commissioner every single season. And that takes a lot of time. You're good.

SPEAKER_01

Kelly, you're firm but fair. Because none of you want to do it. None of us want to do it. You're you take it seriously enough, but fun enough that it's the perfect balance. None of the rest of us can accomplish it that way. So you have to do it.

SPEAKER_02

It's so annoying.

SPEAKER_01

Whatever.

SPEAKER_02

It's so annoying. But anyway, I have made it to the playoffs every single season I've been playing fantasy. So if I don't make it to the playoffs, I won't be very upset. So I remember when my twin brother Corey, for the listeners who don't know who Corey is, the first time I played fantasy or drafted fantasy football team, he I don't know, it might have been high school or after high school, but he couldn't make the draft. He couldn't attend his draft. And it was at like an American Legion or someplace.

SPEAKER_01

Let's also make sure the audience knows that your brother Corey is the most competitive human being in our entire family. Yes. Like we're talking like may has made kids cry. We're talking family Olympic shows.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, the Monopoly. Remember Monopoly?

SPEAKER_01

He has flipped a Monopoly board on Kelly and I. So this is somebody who, you know, is out there to win it for the guts and glory.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, I love it.

SPEAKER_02

So I remember when he couldn't attend his draft, and I had never played fantasy football before. And he gives me the magazine and a bunch of notes he had written down. He goes, Hey, I need you to go to the draft and draft my team.

SPEAKER_01

I was so scared. That's a big task to ask for him.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, because in the whole season, if they're losing, it's your fault.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, yeah. So I go to this like VFW, or I don't even know where it was, I don't even remember. And I sit down with all the guys, and I'm like, I'm thinking I know what I'm doing, and I'm just I'm so nervous the whole time. And he probably lost that season. But anyway, so that was like my first introduction to fantasy football, and ever since then, I think I've played.

SPEAKER_01

Very fun.

SPEAKER_02

And I have made the playoffs like every season, so I'm not upset if I don't make it. And I'm just more happy that the Bills won. I chose not to, and the listeners are probably gonna be mad. Bill's mafia will be mad, but I chose not to watch the game today because I've had a lot of anxiety watching Bills games. Yeah. And knowing I had to record the podcast tonight, I was just like, all right, what can I do to get my mind off of this? So I'm not checking my phone, I'm not watching the game. I don't think my heart could handle this today.

SPEAKER_01

Your mood was dependent on how today was gonna go. Yeah. And as a full-fledged heart through and through Bills fan, I was out at a local area restaurant bar watching the game with fellow members of the Bills Mafia going through those roller coaster up and downs. And luckily they pulled it out at the end. It was a roller coaster.

SPEAKER_02

I don't know how you guys did it. I don't know. I went to work and decorated for Christmas at work, and I was so tempted to look at my phone and I wouldn't until I think it was like I checked the halftime score, and I was like, nope, ain't gonna do it. And I think it was like five minutes to four, and I checked the score, and I'm like, oh my God, and I yelled, oh my god, because my colleague was there too. And I'm like, the bills won. I can't believe the bills won. And I did watch a few highlights and I was tearing it, and I was tearing up.

SPEAKER_01

Oh yeah, Cal.

SPEAKER_02

You there was I was very emotional and very proud, and I will watch it tonight.

SPEAKER_01

All right, cool. So, as they say, all's well that ends well when the bills win. And Tara had drill weekend this weekend.

SPEAKER_02

How are you feeling, Tara?

SPEAKER_00

Exhausted. Oh, I didn't even sit at my desk until 3 p.m. today. That's how much rippin' and runding I was doing. But it was a very productive weekend. And it was and it was and it was a very emotional and heartfelt one because we did the angel tree. We got the gifts to the younger airmen or whoever puts in for it. And then we had a warehouse full of Amazon items that were donated. And so we set up like a thrift store in there, and they just came in and took whatever they wanted, and everything was brand new. And so they got Christmas gifts for their family members, and everyone was just so excited and in a good mood and happy. So it felt good to help our members.

SPEAKER_01

That's a win for you today, and for for your fellow airmen, yeah. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02

It's a great weekend. Very nice. December UTAs around the holidays are always really special. I've been following many wings on Facebook and Instagram and looking at their posts and pretty cool. Good stuff, job well done.

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

All right. So what are we talking about today, ladies? You tell us, fearless leader. All right. Last week we talked about the holiday blues. And this week we're gonna dive a little bit more into that, and we're gonna geek out on some neuroscience, of course, and we're gonna talk about this concept called the manual. And many coaches have different words for that concept, but I just know it of the manual or as the manual based on Brooke Castillo, Life Coach School, CEO, founder of Life Coach School. She calls it the manual, which is an instruction guide of expectations or unspoken expectations that we have of others and how they should act, how they should behave, and how they should treat us so we feel better and we are happier. And we can dive deeper into it when we talk about relationships down the road, because that's where it really applies. But I want to connect it to the holidays because sometimes during the holidays, just like last week when we talked about the blues, like our brain and our emotions are in overdrive, and we may not manage our expectations accordingly during the holidays. So we can call it the holiday manual.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Yeah. Because we we have these unspoken rules on the holiday in expectations of other people. And it's like, why do we do that? It's not even a real thing. The manual is invisible.

SPEAKER_01

Perhaps based on history, what you've grown up with, what you've been exposed to, those feelings that you're searching for that you're used to feeling on those days and recreating moments and feelings that bring you the contentment of the holidays. Yeah. Familiarity.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, there's really three pieces to it. The one is a part of the brain, and this was just confirmed, this concept back in 2001 by neuroscientist. I wrote down the name, Marcus Reichel. There's so many studies being done on this still. There's a concept called the default mode network, DMN, which is like an interconnected region of the brain that connects different parts of the brain, like the prefrontal cortex, a couple other cortexes, and the hippocampus, which Jill just mentioned, memory, that when you are at rest, and this is gonna all make sense in a minute. When you are at rest and not doing like a structured task or not building something or not solving problems, when you are just at rest, you are daydreaming and you are thinking, and sometimes you are overthinking and ruminating. And you ever go on a long drive, and I know many long drives, and you start daydreaming and thinking and reflecting. And there's also like a social cognitive part of this too, where you start thinking of other people and relationships that you daydream, and before you know it, you've arrived at your destination. You're like, oh my god, how did I just how did I even get there?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, I do that all the time.

SPEAKER_01

Or you're daydreaming so hard that you miss your exit. Who's done that? I've done that.

SPEAKER_02

Let's just say that you get to your destination, and that is because you've done that drive, you know how to drive, and everything gets you there because you've done it. It's autopilot default. Yeah. But the daydreaming are the things that you're that you're thinking about. And that could be how is my performance at work today? Or hey, when I said this to somebody, oh, maybe I shouldn't have said it that way. It's all that overthinking. And whoo, when they said that, was that a compliment or was that criticism? You start like dwelling on all of those conversations in your head, which leads down some pretty negative paths. And a lot of that can be memories and what you've experienced in the past. So we're tying that default mode network, that DMN to anything we've experienced, our paths, and then connecting that to our relationships today. And why do we do that?

SPEAKER_01

Ruminate?

SPEAKER_02

Why do we ruminate? Yeah, why do we do that? Because it's the brain, like the brain is used to doing it. So when your brain is used to doing it and we don't acknowledge it and we're not aware of it, we continue to do it. I have lived like that for so long, where especially me, where when I'm at work, I'm at work and I have colleagues and it's great. But when I am home, I tend to be alone a lot of the time. It doesn't mean I'm lonely because there are people that are lonely, there are lonely people in this world, and I don't want to get into that part of the conversation about what the DMN is connected to as far as some illnesses. So if I'm home and I'm not doing a podcast or I'm not doing schoolwork, or I'm not binging a show, or I could be sitting there daydreaming, and before you know it, I am ruminating and overthinking on things, and I don't have enough self-awareness to say, all right, Kelly, this is not healthy for you. Stop it and go do a task, go create something. So we do it, we just stay in this default mode network because we're not aware of what it's doing to us.

SPEAKER_00

And I was reading something earlier today when I knew we were gonna talk about this topic, and we want to go back to expectations. Or expectations, they're there because our experiences are what we have the most access to. So our expectations come from our experiences, and it's okay. We use our experiences as the anchor. So this is the threshold, this is where they should be, this is what they should be doing, and you're holding to those expectations just by default.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and guess what? That person or those other people have a different default mode network because they have different memories, they have different experiences, they have different upbringing and different wiring. So if I have expectations of somebody, and this can be about relationships, it could be with your partner, it could be with your parents, mom, dad, siblings. If you expect things or if you want things, then communicate it because you can't expect that person, whether it be a sibling, parent, partner, child, you can't expect them to read your mind and they didn't have the same experiences as you.

SPEAKER_01

Also, I too to add to that, I also think too, you're not able to consider the variables that the other person is experiencing in those moments of time either. Because those things that the other person is experiencing, you may not be experiencing simultaneously. You don't factor them in. I think keeping open-mindedness and leading with love and understanding is always the best way to open the communication because even in work and taking care of patients, people can always people can sometimes lead with a certain face or a certain energy or certain words, but oftentimes that comes from a deeper struggle or a reason that there's a reason why people are the way they are, or theirs or reason why they're acting the way that they are. So we have to be open and forgiving to that and always lead with love in our communication.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I actually looked into that. And it was something called cognitive simplicity. So it's easier to project our own belief onto others rather than spend the energy and time trying to understand theirs. Cognitive simplicity or brain take the mental shortcut.

SPEAKER_02

Sure. Biases, biases, yes, yeah, it's much easier. Yes, it's much easier to use that lower part of the brain that reacts so quick and thinks so quick for you to apply that bias versus actually thinking about the situation and using your prefrontal cortex for it. Yeah. So the first one was that default mode network. It's especially now during the holidays, if you are having the holiday blues, it's just get out of that DMN because it doesn't serve you well when you're just at rest and you're draydreaming, especially if it's leading down negative thoughts and judging others and expectations. The second one is the reward system. And we talked about that last week. It's that dopamine hit. So if you do get that text, or if somebody does meet that expectation, or if your wife or husband is doing what you want them to do during the holidays and you get that dopamine hit, great, but that's the reward system. But what happens when they don't? Your brain is gonna perceive that threat or rejection and then still hit that DMN the next time when you're at rest and you're daydreaming about it. Very easy.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, but the thing about expectations is that, like you said, you have to communicate them. I know we said we're not gonna go into relationships and whatnot, but at the same time, that's the easiest way for me to explain it. How can you how can I know what to do for you if you don't tell me? I can't read your mind. You have this just like work as a leader, you gotta set the expectation so that they know how to operate, communicate it.

SPEAKER_01

Sometimes it's difficult for people to communicate because they they lack a little bit of self-worth or confidence. So I think creating a safe space for communication is really important too, and making sure that people feel that there isn't a bias and it is a safe space to communicate because it's uncomfortable when you're being perceived as weak or asking for whatever it is you're asking for. So that's the hard part for people is communicating needs that make you look and feel vulnerable.

SPEAKER_00

I agree with that. Because someone is lying to you all the time. Sometimes I question like, why are they lying to you? Are you creating that safe space for them to tell you the truth? Can they come to you and tell you anything without you as an hour, getting angry, or whatever the case may be? Is this a comfortable and safe space for me to communicate?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I will admit I had a manual. Vanessa was on this episode.

SPEAKER_01

Wait, who's a manual? I never heard of him.

SPEAKER_02

A manual. Oh, okay. I'm sure as Vanessa is listening, she's probably like, yep, Kelly, you did. You expected me to know everything that was in your mind.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

All right, so we talked about the DMN, the reward system, and then the mirror neuron confusion, which is we expect them to act how we act. And I just want to say when we talk about expectations and the manual anytime, but this episode is for the holidays. We go by the golden rule here. We're we are not saying for the listeners, we are not saying that it's okay to be disrespected. It is expectations, which is always the golden rule. Treat people how you want to be treated and have boundaries and be respected and be loved and be cared for, and of course, be protected. So we just want to make sure we say that during this episode. But the mirror neuron confusion is we assume people will act how we act.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I actually know of that as the false consensus effect. And that's basically like we believe our actions are more normal and appropriate than they actually are. We overestimate how much other people agree with our beliefs.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah, I believe that. I believe that. I believe that too. And as a pupil of this podcast and of this knowledge, it's crazy to reflect. Sometimes people just go along with what you're saying, or they just agree with you to conform or to not create conflict. And that's not a meaningful conversation, it's more surface. What did you call it again, Tara? What was that? The false consensus effect. False consensus effect. I could see how that abides. Yeah. Interesting. Good one, Tara. Very good one, Tara.

SPEAKER_02

So other people's behavior really doesn't have an impact on us until we actually put a thought toward it. So it's all about being self-aware and aware of what you're thinking about a situation and a person.

SPEAKER_00

I want to give an example of expectations at my family's house for the holidays. My mom has so many of them. I can't even count. But one of them is that everyone is just expected to be at Christmas dinner or at Thanksgiving. Every single person in the family, no matter how distant we are. If you don't show up, oh, we're talking about you.

SPEAKER_02

You mean traveling from other states? Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Good mom. No mom. It's good. It's a good expectation to have, but she gets let down when everyone doesn't come. And she's like ruminating about it. I'm like, mom, you can't feel like control, but you did control. Everyone came, but one person. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01

I'm gonna speak to an expectation, but so the women in our family are quite the hostess, okay? So when the women in our family throw a dinner party or some sort of family event, things are cooked beautifully. The table settings are beautiful. There are four different tables depending on what the age group is that's decorated differently. And everything is just as my mom Judy would say, it has to be perfectly perfect. Which is wonderful going up in that environment, but it also holds a very high expectation of a child or someone who doesn't have that knack or have that down quite yet. That perfectly perfect expectation of what the family dinner should look like. And Kelly and I are very similar in that where we're like, whatever, we're just here, we're happy.

SPEAKER_02

Things in our family they need to be beautiful, and they always are, and it is beautiful, but yeah, it would be hard to live up to the expectation of a Thanksgiving or Christmas dinner or event.

SPEAKER_01

We need our moms and our aunts. Yeah, we always need them, they bring that extra beauty, they do.

SPEAKER_02

The class for us it's given. Use the TV, give us games, and give us the food.

SPEAKER_01

With them, it's matching china, matching napkins, and fresh flowers on every table.

SPEAKER_00

I would be just like your moms and your aunts. I swear. If I had it my way, I would decorate just like that. Oh, it's great.

SPEAKER_02

It's beautiful. But you do that, Tara, didn't you? Or do you still have a catering business?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, charcuteries. Yeah, I fell off of doing it for a while, but I actually, it's so funny. I just made one um over the weekend for one of the chiefs, and he shared it with the entire maintenance group. And now maintenance like expects me to do charcuteries, like tables and boards for the retirements. And I'm like, yeah. And then they're like, oh yeah, she has a whole business doing it. Like I had this big elaborate business.

SPEAKER_01

Not like a double-edged sword there, Tara.

SPEAKER_00

I know, right? But yeah, yeah. I love deaf or radio. I love playing with food. I love hosting. I love all of that. Everything has to be perfectly perfect.

SPEAKER_01

Now, if I don't do it, it's fine.

SPEAKER_02

But if I'm doing it, there's an expectation. Sure. What are some other expectations that your mom has, Tara?

SPEAKER_00

Anything for Christmas? Oh, Christmas. Yeah. We're not allowed to open gifts until Christmas Day. Absolutely none. You get one on Christmas Eve. Christmas Day, you can unwrap them. And he gets really upset. If I'm like, oh, we're unwrapping those on Christmas Eve. Wow, dare you. What about that baby and Santa Claus and all the things? And I'm like, he doesn't even know what day Christmas is on yet. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Fun little fact, I have a pretty clear memory in my mind of when my cousin Kelly showed me that her and her brother Corey and her brother Todd would perfectly unwrap the Christmas gifts at the tape line and peek at what they were while they were wrapped in under the tree days before Christmas and then perfectly align the tape back up in place for their gifts. They were the worst, they were such bad influences on.

SPEAKER_02

I needed to see what I needed to see that sweater from TJ Maxx.

SPEAKER_00

I think you told us that last week because I did the same thing. I don't know that mine was perfect. She probably noticed.

SPEAKER_02

So Todd was the one because we we had a group chat going, Corey, Todd, my mom and I, this week about it. Because I couldn't remember if it was Corey or Todd that actually wore the shirt to school and then put it back in the box and re-wrapped it. And Corey remembered that it was Todd because it had a drum set on the shirt, and Todd wore it to school and then wrapped it back up. But for Corey, he said he played, he unwrapped one of the video games. So maybe back then it was Nintendo or something. Definitely Super Nintendo. And then he actually played the video game and then wrapped it back up in the present.

SPEAKER_01

That's balls.

SPEAKER_02

I don't remember that. I think that actually made my mom upset. And I'm like, mom, I had nothing to do with that. I don't know. That was on them. They're bad.

SPEAKER_01

I'm good. Just give me the rest of their gifts.

SPEAKER_02

All right. So yeah, I think there are some expectations that we probably shouldn't have to talk about. But again, we're using that S word that sometimes helps sometimes sets us up for failure. Is that should or shouldn't word?

SPEAKER_01

After listening to the podcast last week, which was so awesome, you guys. I'm so engaged. I travel to and from work and I listened to it on my way home. And I love it. I love hearing your voice, Kel. And I love your banter with Tara. And I love that you shout out my experience last Christmas. And I just want to touch on it if now's a good time.

SPEAKER_02

Transitioning to that. Oh, thank you for chiming in. Yeah. So there are some expectations that we really should not have to tell people, especially our family members. But I appreciate that Tara mentioned about opening up the presents Christmas Eve versus Christmas, because we talked about that last week. That I love allowing the kids to open up one or two Christmas Eve. It kind of teasers, gets them excited. And that's what I had growing up. So it's something that I would just continuously do. But again, like it's a conversation to have. And I think it's a pretty basic expectation that your kids wait for the parent or parents to be present until they open up their first present, which leads us into are you guys ready for the detour?

SPEAKER_03

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

All right. So for our listeners, last week I had shared a story very briefly that my cousin Jill last Christmas had a pretty tough experience on Christmas morning and came downstairs to find that every present had been opened by her kids before she came downstairs. So she is here to tell that story.

SPEAKER_01

Here I am. Here I am to tell that story. I've lived to tell the story. I've spent 355 days trying to figure out a way to get back at my kids. And I've come up with a few game plans, but I can't seem to want to get back at them because they're kids. But yes, in a world where divorced parents are trying to maintain that family tradition and that family feeling when you have separate households can be a little difficult sometimes. And I think this is a reflection of that. Being up late, wrapping these gifts with my significant other that's not their father, he was there helping me. We we stayed up till 3:30 in the morning wrapping these gifts and reflecting and how proud we were. At 5:30, when the kids go to to get up and get the gifts, I asked for 10 more minutes. So my advice would be to not ask for 10 more minutes, parents. That's where that was my first one.

SPEAKER_02

Well, 5:30 is very early. Let me just so tell the story and then we'll share our input.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. So 5:30 in the morning, after maybe only two, two and a half hours of sleep, staying up late after working as a nurse, 12-hour shifts and wrapping all these great gifts for my kids. I asked for 10 more minutes. They never came back up to get me. And my significant other, he got up and went downstairs to find both of my children sitting on the couch with wrappings everywhere of all of the gifts that we spent all night rapping for them. And comes back upstairs, wakes me up, and he says, Jilly, your kids unwrapped every single gift under the tree. And I said, You're messing with me. I go, stop, you're messing with me. And he said, No, I wouldn't mess with you. I swear. I go downstairs and I was in complete shock. And I said, What did you guys do? And my 13-year-old son, sweet as can be, says, We opened one and then we decided to open another and we just kept going. You didn't get up and made it like he was the victim, right? So I get it. In reflection, kids only see one way. Their kids, their brains are not developed. They aren't going to consider anybody but themselves when they have this pile of gifts in front of them. What happened from it was a bigger lesson than gifts. It was a bigger lesson than them opening them without me. It was the fact that I should have been present when I needed to be present for them. And I wasn't. As a parent, you think things are your fault, and you think, what did I do to that make my kids do this or what have you? It became a family joke that season in our family, right? Because everyone's oh, Jill's kids. The kids, they have no respect for their mother. They open their gifts without her. But it was deeper than that. I'm choosing to use it as a learning experience and making my relationship with my kids more so that the kids realize I understand that I wasn't there when you wanted me to be there. And I should have been up. I should have been there for you when you wanted me to be there. And it made me feel bad as a parent. It was horrible. It was the worst Christmas I ever had. It was awful. So this year, your brother Corey's like, why don't we wrap all their gifts and put them under the tree at my house and have them have one gift and then you come over to my house and all their gifts are there? And you know, it's like retaliation might not be the best route for this situation. I don't know, Cal. What do you think? I think I'm just going to try to make this Christmas not any bigger and any better, but just make it normal. Just make it normal and easy and full of love and not harbor any negative feelings about last year because that's what the season is about. It's the end of a year, it's the end of a chapter. And I feel it exemplifies life in general as you learn from the year, you learn from your mistakes, and you should use that as motivation to be the best version of yourself. So retaliation is not my route, but again, it was a lesson, and I think that we're over it now. I'm looking forward to actually watching my kids open the gifts this year.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that's part of the magic of Christmas is watching them open and sitting there with your coffee and your blanket, and then just watching the smiles on their faces and listening to the wrapping paper get ripped apart. And one of the great I felt like I was robbed of that. And I think if you were to do something to retaliate against them on Christmas Day, that you would regret it. Oh, totally. One of the greatest gifts a parent can give to their children is predictability, stability, steadiness, and just and love. And that is hey, this is how Christmas is going to look every year. This is how we celebrate, these are our traditions. And if there is anything but you sitting there watching them open up all their presents, like we we normally do, then that's going to take away that predictability, and they won't enjoy it this year, then. Right.

SPEAKER_01

New year, new us.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

No, and I you guys are a lot nicer than me because I would mess with them.

SPEAKER_01

How are they? Trust me, Tara. About months ago, I was still feeling that way. But as the year, as the season approaches, and as the meaning of Christmas is as it approaches more and more, I feel like that would just be like a double negative.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I get it. Oh, you're right. You're doing the right thing.

SPEAKER_02

And kids, man, you're even look at what we did. We opened up our presents and then and then re-wrapped them before Christmas. Because once you start unwrapping that first present, man, that dopamine hits and you add the next one. I could see that.

SPEAKER_01

And that's what my son said. He's, I don't know. We just opened one and then we opened two and then we just kept going. I was just in shock.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, they some something took over them at that point. All right. Thank you for sharing the story. Hey, are you guys ready to? I want to talk about Christmas movies because maybe next episode we can do Christmas songs or something like that. But let's I want to talk about Christmas movies. There is a website called Tear Maker, T-I-E-R Maker. Tear Maker. I'm not going to go in there now, but for the listeners, it's a great website. If you ever want to go and tier anything, you can tier best cereals, movies, songs, like snacks, potato chips, all sorts of stuff. Anyway, so we are actually going to do like 14 or 15 Christmas movies, and we are going to tier them. And I just picked the most famous ones that I saw on the internet.

SPEAKER_01

We are going to rank these A, B, C. A is awesome, B is middle, and C is who cares? Okay. All right.

SPEAKER_02

Okay. All right. The first one is The Santa Claus. I like it. I used to watch it all the time over the holidays. Is it Tim Allen? Tim Allen. Oh, it's so cute. It's not, it's definitely not in my A category. I would say B.

SPEAKER_01

I would say B, and I agree that it was a huge nostalgic movie at the time because I think it was one of the first movies that touched on divorced families and holidays, Christmas with divorced families in play. So I thought that was trend setting at the time.

SPEAKER_02

Yep. Tara, what do you think? I definitely will give it a B. Yep. Okay. Christmas Vacation. I gotta give it an A. Chevy Chase, National Lampoons, could watch it every Christmas season. It is one of the best. Never gets old. Cousin Eddie. Tara, what do you think?

SPEAKER_01

I you guys are gonna hate me.

SPEAKER_00

I don't remember that movie. I'm not gonna lie.

SPEAKER_01

Are you serious? I'm gonna say C for Christmas vacation just because it's so overplayed and played out. I don't know. It's too excessive. No family has that crazy of a Christmas adventure together. I don't know. It's a C for me. My god. I know I'm talking about it. It's like the best. I knew you would be mad. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02

Tara, you gotta say something here.

SPEAKER_00

I don't know. I don't remember that movie. You gotta pick a you gotta pick it. I just Googled it and I don't recognize it. I'm not gonna lie.

SPEAKER_01

The squirrel literally starts on fire in the Christmas tree. Nobody wants dead squirrels in their Christmas tree.

SPEAKER_00

That's not when I was born. That's why.

SPEAKER_02

You gotta pick a letter of Tara so I can I'm gonna go with C.

SPEAKER_00

Who cares?

SPEAKER_02

What?

SPEAKER_01

All right, maybe Tara. I'm with you. Can I at least put it in B? Yeah, you can do whatever you want. This is a safe space for communication.

SPEAKER_02

All right. I would like to put it in B. I cannot be convinced that it's a who cares Christmas movie. Next one is Elf. Awesome.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, awesome. I have a good day.

SPEAKER_02

I would say awesome.

SPEAKER_00

Classic.

SPEAKER_01

One of the greatest, most original characters of all time, Will Farrell the Elf. Yes.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that's not too excessive where this human adult is in the North Pole and Jill.

SPEAKER_01

Come on. But but Kelly, they're leaving with the premise that it's an unrealistic movie. In the Christmas vacation, they're acting like all normal and all this crazy stuff happens. That doesn't make me feel safe and secure watching that movie. I know I'm gonna be on a crazy wild ride. I'd at least like to know it up front.

SPEAKER_02

Elf is a all right. The Polar Express. I don't care about it.

SPEAKER_00

I don't care about it either. B C.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, B, maybe C.

SPEAKER_01

I know. How many C's do we have? I'm gonna say C. I'll give it a C. You want to know why? Because like all of us, it's boring, it's boring, and that they turn Tom Hanks into a cartoon. I think that's it's too much.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I don't like it. Not my favorite at all.

SPEAKER_02

Agreed. All right, home alone. All of them.

SPEAKER_01

All the way. Best best story ever. If you're gonna depict a story about a crazy family incident, that's the one I'm gonna want to watch. Yeah. Scrooge. Is it Scrooge or Scrooge? B because it has good morals, good, good message. It's not entertaining. It's not. I'm gonna go sad. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I'm putting it into C's fan. The Grinch.

SPEAKER_00

A. Wait, which one?

SPEAKER_02

Call it classic.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

A, right? It's a great story. I love the story. Christmas with the Cranks. B. I like it. It's a cute movie. It's a good movie. It's a good movie. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I want to know the B.

SPEAKER_02

Alright. Okay, you guys. I'm saying this for our listeners, but I would be happy to debate with anyone why this should not be labeled as a Christmas movie. This next one is Die Hard. It is not a Christmas movie. I think if you're gonna label something as a Christmas movie, the plot has to be about Christmas.

SPEAKER_00

I agree. Yeah. I didn't know that was labeled as a Christmas movie.

SPEAKER_01

Oh you know what? I there's been a lot of controversy about this in the last few years about Die Hard. I haven't watched it recently enough to be able to have a real opinion about it. So I'm gonna say C. C. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I haven't watched it recently enough either, and don't have any.

SPEAKER_02

It's not about Christmas. Okay. We won't argue. It's a wonderful life. A I'm gonna say B only because it is like a classic, but compared to all these other ones, I can't label it as awesome, but it is a classic. I would feel bad.

SPEAKER_01

I might say B because it's a classic. I haven't watched it in the last 10 years, so I would want today.

SPEAKER_00

I have never watched it, so it's in black and white, Tara. I'm looking at it now. I'm gonna Google it.

SPEAKER_02

I'll put it as B. A Christmas story. A awesome.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Top tier. Yeah, I'll put it as A. I just I'm not it just it doesn't.

SPEAKER_01

I don't know. I've always the nostalgia of the 70s, Christmas, the jackets, the glasses, the music, the lighting, the glasses, the dynamic between the husband and the wife. You can't put that in.

SPEAKER_02

I think it just drags on. It just drags on. But I'll go A with you guys. Thanks.

SPEAKER_00

Or taking this seriously.

SPEAKER_01

This is Tara, especially when it comes to music and arts. The family stone. I saw that once, and I can't comment. It's Diane Keaton. I remember that. Rest God rest your soul.

SPEAKER_00

She passed this year. Of course, I don't, I've never seen it.

SPEAKER_01

Kelly loves Diane Keaton. This is why she's growing right now.

SPEAKER_00

She made me watch a movie. What was that?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, she loves Diane Keaton. How do you know, Jill? Because I think I had a conversation with you recently about this. And some that you watched a movie with Diane Keaton in it recently, and it really spoke to you. Was that you? No. Okay. Maybe it was your mom.

SPEAKER_02

No, it might have been my mom. For the listeners, that was not me. That movie did not speak to me. Anyway, we'll put it in B because I four Christmases. If that is with Reese Witherspoon, yeah, and Bidspawn, I think.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that definitely touches on sibling rivalry and the trauma of family, and then bringing a new relationship around a family. I think it's got a good message, and I think it's well acted. And Reese Witherspoon's always great. I'd say B for that. Yeah. Not a classic, but it's a good movie.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I'm gonna know the B too.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I'll agree. Take it or leave it. Jingle all the way. Is it that with Arnold Schwarzenegger?

SPEAKER_01

Literally, a awesome. I was waiting for you to get to this one. This is my number one favorite Christmas movie of all time. Arnold Schwarzenegger, Tara, Arnold Schwarzenegger plays a toy executive who never has enough time for his family. He misses out on karate meets. He's always late for events. And the one job that his wife got him that gave him, who is the wife of Tom Haynes? Rita Wilson. Rita Wilson plays his wife in the movie. She said, get the turbo mandal for their son. So the day before Christmas, Arnold Schwarzenegger did not get the Turbo Mandal. And he's all in the new in the city trying to find the Turbo Mandal. And then Sinbad and him go to this like makeshift like Turbo Mandal factory, and it's a big shakedown. And then it all ends at this big parade where Turbo Man is flying in the sky, he's afloat, but Arnold Schwarzenegger gets in the Turbo Man costume and surprises his son. It's literally Arnold Schwarzenegger's accent and voice is awesome. Turbo Man, it's the best movie of all. Best Christmas movie ever.

SPEAKER_02

I'm not gonna argue. I'm just gonna go with that. Let her have this one. It's very jingle all the way. My favorite. Next one, we have three more to get through. Love actually. I haven't seen it. I'm a sucker for the love stories, and I love Hugh Grant. I love the cast in the movie. Every time I watch it, like I cry, and it's tears of joy and all the love. And it is in my awesome category. It's probably in the my in my top three. Really? Yes. I guess I'll have to watch it then.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, me too, because I've never seen it.

SPEAKER_02

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00

I don't watch TV. I'm so bad. I don't know why you keep picking movies and stuff with me.

SPEAKER_01

Tara, I got you. I got you, Tara.

SPEAKER_02

All right, Miracle on 34th Street. I don't know if I've ever seen this. I think I have seen that actually.

SPEAKER_01

Again, it's like somber, but then a happy ending. Yeah, it's too much. Too much.

SPEAKER_00

So C. I'm gonna go with C. Yeah. Oh it wasn't memorable for me, anyways.

SPEAKER_02

All right, Nightmare before Christmas. I don't think I've ever seen this. Yeah, I don't think I ever have. I don't really care for it, but Tim Burton movies. Yeah, it's I'm not a fan of Tim Burton movies.

SPEAKER_01

Jack Skeleton. I know. There's always such a dark, there's such a dark aura and a dark energy to all of his films. And it's like making a mockery of Christmas when you add all that darkness to it. So it doesn't, it never did it for me either. See? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Who cares? Who cares? All right. Yes. Okay. I want to go back to A and see if we can get a top movie here. In the A category, we have Elf, Home Alone. There's six. So I'm gonna do the top. I'm gonna do three Elf, Home Alone, and The Grinch.

unknown

Elf.

SPEAKER_02

hard out of those three i'm gonna say home alone yeah we can always we can always move elf in a minute all right so then what home alone has over those other two films the music when you hear the original score to that movie it takes you back to a place in time it does when I could watch that over and over again yeah me too Jordan and I love watching that movie okay so the next are a Christmas story jingle all the way and love actually I will remove love actually because that is mine all right so if I bring in elf so we have elf a Christmas story and jingle all the way I want to remove a Christmas story yeah that's tough to do elf then I would pick I would have to go with elf out of those three yes out of those three I would have to go with elf elf is a cult classic all right so then we have home alone and elf elf alone why home alone that's easy it's gotta be home alone it's gotta be all right trail talks number one Christmas movie of all time home alone all right ladies are you ready to get back on the trail yes okay so we talked about the holiday manual and the instruction guide that we have expectations we have for how people should behave and how they should treat us we talked about the default mode network and the reward system dopamine and the neural mirror what else did we talk about false consensus effect I looked at the false consensus yes effect all right what are some tools we can give our listeners so there's actually worksheets out there there was like 17 different worksheets that help you with expectations and setting boundaries and one of them that I like is the fat stink act tool where you pause and ask yourself if they actually broke a promise or if you just merely expected them to act based on your own uncommunicated value. I like that it's stop think act yes I like that too I'm gonna go back a little bit to the default mode network and if you find yourself ruminating and overthinking while you're at rest not doing anything several things you can do move we talked last episode the best thing you can do in any situation is move and exercise move your body but also be productive do tasks even if it's getting up and doing the dishes or doing the laundry or creating something reading something that gets your mind away from you ruminating and overthinking.

SPEAKER_01

It's very therapeutic to listen without the intention to speak when you're communicating some people only listen to talk and you'll recognize those people right away in conversations and I think people love to hear themselves speak they love to give their opinion they love to talk about themselves and their experiences but real effective communication is mainly listening.

SPEAKER_02

So listen without the intention to speak right away I have a couple more for the expectations now if you have expectations of others how to avoid your holiday manual say the expectation out loud so really just basic communicate it to whoever that may be your partner spouse sibling children ask yourself that is this a request or a rule if you get angry when it's not done it was a rule in disguise and did I teach this or am I assuming this most manual problems come from imaginary traditions we never said out loud.

SPEAKER_01

And then really sometimes it's just letting people be who they are that's a big one man I am a farm believer in that we're all different and you can't and it's out of your control really like it how that person chooses to be act or whatever the case may be if it's not your partner of course that is really out of my control what can I do about it and it's hard to get past that sometimes when you don't understand a loved one's path or the energy that they're giving off or whatever that may be based on the variables in their life when you're not understanding that person because they're not who you thought they were or who you remember in the past it's hard to connect with somebody when they're confusing you I don't know what tools you could give other than let people be who they are and relinquish any expectation you have people grow and people can change into who they are midlife late in life it's always happening who we knew we as kids might not be the same as middle age or as adulthood.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah and part of that is being curious about them instead of being judgmental the good old Walt Whitman quote of be curious not judgmental. That's funny I have that written down yeah I love that one. Yeah me too and I think Tara had mentioned this before or maybe you did Jill about understanding and giving grace that other person is experiencing life and we all experience it very different. The three of us are experiencing something different right now and sometimes it's just about giving grace because you don't know what's going on in their life and in their supercomputer between their ears. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And if you have boundaries communicate them don't abandon your boundaries but you also want to give grace beautiful there's this tool called boundary mapping too you basically identify and understand like what we find acceptable tolerable and unacceptable so it's three circles you write them on the outside one's acceptable tolerable and unacceptable it's called boundary mapping. Oh I like that that's awesome yeah very interesting do you write that down yeah you draw out three circles so a large one in the middle and then a smaller one and this what's acceptable what's tolerable yeah what's unacceptable is a smaller one that way you can identify what your boundaries are so that you can set your expectations but if you google it it'll pop right up for you boundary mapping I think that's really important to do that especially during the holidays if there is friction with you and a family member if it's your mom or dad you can really do this anytime.

SPEAKER_02

If you have had friction in your relationship with somebody in your family for a long time that is a really good tool that both of you just write it out.

SPEAKER_01

Right. Use the writing as a visual you know people have so many ideas and so many thoughts and when you close your eyes at night and everything goes into your storage files you start up the next day feeling refreshed and able to take things on but when you write things down you're developing a game plan.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah there's so much neuroscience and information about learning and application when you write stuff down right journaling is so important journaling is a great tool taking notes. All right hey we're gonna close this out thank you so much for joining us Jill this was a lot of fun thank you for sharing your story and your heart and your humor and your love and kindness it's been a great episode thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you girls for welcoming me and I want you to know I love what you guys are doing. I love that you're teaching people the tools that they need to have to get through tough times. It's really important that people know that they're not alone and that everybody may experience things differently but at our core we are all the same and we all go through these things at some point. So it's awesome to feel a part of something thank you.

SPEAKER_02

Yep and tell your kids and the parents hey hide your presence hide them double tape them double tape them yes double tape for your presence and have video cameras in the living room or wherever your presence are hey everybody if today's episode made you laugh made you think or made you feel a little less alone this holiday season do us a favor and share it with someone you love. Send it to a friend a cousin a coworker especially someone who might still be holding their own invisible manual. We'll see you next week on Trail Talks