5 Boundary Truths

Love isn’t supposed to be effortless 24/7… it’s supposed to be sustainable 💛 In Episode 15 of Trail Talks, we unpack boundaries in romantic relationships and why they’re not walls, ultimatums, or control… they’re clarity.
We break down the Top 5 Truths About Boundaries, explore how attachment styles + nervous system states(fight/flight vs shutdown) shape conflict, and share practical tools like “When X happens, I feel Y, so I will Z.”
Plus: a hilarious “Red Flag, Green Flag” detour that gets way too real 😅🚩✅
🎧 Tune in for honest conversation, practical language, and the kind of self-trust that actually changes relationships.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Hey everyone, welcome back to Trail Talks, the podcast where we talk about growth, the messy, the beautiful, and everything in between. I'm your host, Kelly Kruger, founder of Kelly Michelle Coaching, where we focus on mindset, emotional intelligence, and leadership, all grounded in real life and real science. And joining me is my co-host and partner in growth, founder of Leading People LLC, Terrace Donette, the leadership trainer and facilitator who brings insight, curiosity, and real-world perspective to every episode. So wherever you're listening from today, we're glad you're here, and thank you for joining us on the trail. The topic that we're going to talk about today, and I love this topic. I'm guilty of not understanding what boundaries are sometimes, and you got to kind of remind yourself what they are. But since we are in February, love is in the air, although sometimes it doesn't feel like it. It is the season of love. And so our topic today is boundaries.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

And this is, you know, the Bad Bunny story, and the thing it was a good segue because his whole story during the halftime show was love. I mean, but bigger than hate is love or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:14

Yeah, there was a real wedding. There was a real wedding.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

Yeah. Love is in the air.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

Love is in the air. And why are we talking about boundaries?

SPEAKER_01 1:25

Because you should set boundaries within your romantic relationships. You should set boundaries in general, but we already talked about boundaries a little bit before. So now we're talking about boundaries off of Shaquila and Greg's episode, right? That was so good.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

My god, they are it is it, but they were a perfect example. They were so real, and they were a perfect example of. Yeah, I've heard that so much. Yeah, you and my I've heard that. Yeah. When people say relationships shouldn't be work or love should not be work, it should be easy. And we have believed that, but we also sometimes believe that it's uncomfortable and life is hard and it shouldn't be hard, but it we understand that it is. So we we tend to think, especially in February, when we this month and Valentine's Day is honoring love and love. Some think it should be effortless and easy and constant and 24-7 romantic, but it's not 24-7 romantic assessment. Oh, I wish, no, I know it'd be so dreamy, right? I mean, I shouldn't have said I wish, but yeah, oh god, this is gonna be tough. Oh god, I'm gonna be I'm gonna be fired from my own show. Yeah, but yeah, I've heard the saying, and you have said it that love should be easy, and then we get into a relationship and which I like to call a partnership. Um, relationship, partnership with somebody, and when one thing goes wrong, or when you don't like one thing about that person, it becomes a big problem. And guess what? News flash, you're not gonna like a hundred percent of what that person does.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

Yeah, we're two separate individuals. Yeah, you can't expect we talked about this again, we are tying these together. We talked about you can't expect other people to do what you would do, your expectations and how to manage them. Then go into setting boundaries. We had talked about that in one of our episodes.

SPEAKER_02 3:39

Yeah, so boundaries aren't anti-love, they're not walls, they're supposed to help sustain a relationship, help make it healthier. They're what make love sustainable. Yeah. So a lot of us hear the word boundary, and we tie the word boundary to control. Yeah, or an ultimatum. If you do this, then this is gonna happen, or you need to do this, or you need to be this. And I'm feeling threatening a little bit, but that's what we hear sometimes when we think of boundary. It's control, ultimatums, do what I want, or else this, or there's just emotional shutdown. And that makes sense because how we operate when we react to things, and this is another rabbit hole I went down. The the polyvagal theory is there's three nervous system states. One is the ventral vagal state, which is we feel safe and connected, everything's fine, nervous system regulated, we can listen, we stay curious, everything is good. The second is the sympathetic state, that's fight or flight. So our heart rate starts to increase, our voice tightens, our muscles become tense, and we get a little bit defensive. And then the third is the dorsal vagal state, and that's where we shut down or freeze. And there's just emotional numbness, withdrawal. We just say I'm fine, and completely disconnect and avoid conversation. What's interesting about those three? So the first one, the ventral, where we're safe and connected, good, that's great. But the other two are really tied to attachment theory. And Mel Robbins has talked about this and you know, the different attachment theories there are. And I'll just talk about the two, which is the anxious attachment or the avoidant attachment. And so for me, I'm the anxious attachment. I know that. I I know that. So I would tie to the sympathetic state that if somebody, if my partner did something and I felt uncomfortable and my nervous system was flaring up, I would show the sympathetic state, the fight or flight. That's what I'm going to do. So my heart rate's going to increase and my voice is going to tighten, all of that. Well, if somebody's the avoidant attachment, which my partner is, very opposite. I'm anxious, she's an avoidant, then she'll shut down, she'll withdraw, and she'll disconnect. So it's very interesting how those different nervous system states tie back to the attachment theories.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

Yeah, I am the avoidant one as well. I will shut down and don't need to talk about it, really. Like, let's move on, or I'll remove myself from the situation. So maybe a little bit of fight or flight and avoidance, but mainly avoidance, like if I do want to stay in the relationship, like I'll just shut down. I've had to have that conversation because myself and my partner are both avoidant. And so we had to have that conversation and set that boundary. Like, we're not you need to do better, and I'll do better. Like, we need to not shut down in that manner. Yeah, we need to neither one of us liked it. It's not like I was like, okay, my partner's being avoid is avoiding it, not answering the phone, or whatever the case may be. Neither one of us liked how it made us feel, but yet we both were doing it to each other. Like, that doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_02 7:03

But what we need to realize is it's human biology. Like, yeah, like stop questioning it. Or when you're questioning it, you're curious, and you're giving yourself some grace that when my partner does something in my nervous system and I'm feeling it, and I'm in that second state, the sympathetic state, that is because of an anxious attachment because of so and so and so and so on my journey in life, right? Yeah. Um, but it's also understanding that and saying, okay, what can I do with it? So we have different reactions. So when we say, hey, we don't like 100% of what our partners do, we understand that and we set boundaries. And the problem with conflict in relationships when it comes to boundaries, it's they don't it's people don't know the difference between communicating feelings and setting a boundary. It's not the boundary itself. It's most boundary conflict in relationships isn't because people are controlling. It's in when we're talking about boundaries, just for the listeners in this episode, when we're talking about boundaries, we're talking about romantic relationships. So most boundary conflict in relationships is not because people are controlling, it's because they don't know the difference between two things communicating feelings and setting the boundary. And people are data.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

Yeah, they actually see it as a threat. Like when you try to set boundaries, a lot of people see that as a threat. But I think that part of that is because with us being so mentally aware now and allowed to have mental health and all this, we sometimes misuse psychological terms like triggers, trauma, boundaries is one of them. We misuse them, and sometimes we use those boundaries that I'm setting to avoid accountability.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

Yeah, we think that's why people have issues with it as well. Avoid accountability and and it's not communicated properly.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

Yes, it's that free. Yep. For example, well, we can give a few examples. I guess like emotional boundary would be protecting your feelings and thoughts. Your physical boundary could be like comfort levels of personal space or even personal touch, depending on the type of relationship. And then maybe like time and energy, um, like balancing your relationships and your individual lives. Those are all categories that you can set boundaries in that's not that shouldn't be threatening.

SPEAKER_02 9:36

Right. As long as they're communicated properly, right? Um it's gotta be and and and it's gotta be about the person, not your partner. The boundary is for you to trust yourself. So so that's that's what we're gonna get into. So we're gonna set the record straight here with boundaries. Tara and I are gonna share the top five truths about boundaries in romantic relationships, top five truths. Do you want to do number one? You start with the personality. Okay, all right. We'll just go every other.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

We'll figure it out.

SPEAKER_02 10:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. So Tara and I are gonna share the top five truths about boundaries and love. So we talked a little bit about boundary conflict, and the problem is communicating feelings and setting the boundary, and then kind of what people think about what a boundary is. So we're gonna give you the top five truths. Number one, boundaries are about what you control. And understand that's not about controlling your partner, it's about controlling yourself, it's about what you control. This all goes back to what do we always talk about every episode. If you are a man, if you are not using the model every day in your life, in every aspect of your life, use it. Something happens and you put a thought to it, and that generates a feeling, that generates an action, that generates a result. So boundaries live inside your lane, not somebody else's. You cannot control how other people behave, you can't control how your partner behaves, but you can control how you respond to it and how you react. And that idea is supported by psychology. So when we operate, when we as humans operate from emotional adulthood, emotional childhood is when we lash out with people and we blame them and we play the victim. Emotional adulthood is when we take responsibility for everything in our life. It's the internal locus of control. Focus on what we can do, how we behave, how we react, what we can influence, then we experience more agency and less helplessness in our life. So boundaries live inside our lane. And in relationships, when you build your emotional stability around your partner's behavior. So that is when you rely on your partner to make you feel a certain way for that emotional stability, you are outsourcing your peace. Kind of like what we when Tara and I talk about is don't give people your power, right? You you keep that for yourself. So when you are building your emotional stability around your partner's behavior, you're outsourcing your peace. What boundaries do is bring that peace back home to you because that's all within your control. You control that. Right.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

You control how you feel because of that thought, the feeling, the action, the result. You can't rely. I have heard people in relationships say how they rely on their partner's emotions. Like if I'm having a bad day, you should be having a bad day. Or if I'm happy today and you're mad, the other partner got mad because that person was having a good day and they should be coddling. And it's like, no, they can't control how you feel. Yeah. They can show you support, you know what I mean? But you can't rely on the emotion or your partner to help you feel better all the time. That has to come from your thought process.

SPEAKER_02 13:14

Yep. Yeah. So I'll give two examples here in romantic relationships. So example A could be, and these two I think are very relevant and they may be relevant to your relationships, is a lack of presence. So when your partner has a lot of distractions. So it could be you saying, when we're together and I feel like I'm competing with distractions, I end up feeling disconnected. That's the communication, is you describe something that happens and you express how you feel. So when we're together and I feel like I'm competing with distractions, I end up feeling disconnected. The boundary that you then set based on that is if that keeps happening, I'm going to be more intentional about how I share meaningful things and I will prioritize connection in spaces where I feel fully present. So it's not saying you have to do this or else. It's if it continues to happen, then I'm going to prioritize connection in spaces where I'm present. And that's okay, because all of that is within my control. So that's one example. Um, example B is emotional availability. When conflict happens and you go silent for days, I feel anxious. The boundary is if the pattern continues, I'm going to stop initiating repair and I'll take space until we can communicate directly. So it's an X, Y, Z. The X is what happens. When this happens, so when X happens, I feel Y. Yeah. And if it continues, I'm going to Z. That's what setting a boundary is. It's communicating feelings and setting the boundary. So when conflict happens, you go silent for days. I feel anxious. I'm describing what I'm feeling. And when it continues, I'm going to stop initiating repair and I'll take space until we can communicate directly. So that's truth number one. Boundaries are about what you control. They live inside your lane.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

So then truth number two is that feelings are data, not demand script. Is that what truth number two is, right? Yes. Yeah. Truth number two is that feelings are data. And we talked about this before a little bit. How it reminds you of your experiences. How your brain keeps all of your experiences and you keep reliving them. Or you respond to a certain way and react to a certain way, certain things, because of the experiences that you've had in the past. Same thing when it comes to feelings. But they don't get to become demands. Like you said, I'm allowed to feel this way. This is how you did this, X, my feeling is Y, and I'm going to Z. That's not a demand. That's letting you know that what you're doing is making me uncomfortable or whatever the feeling that you have, right? Um, but research shows that emotions are information or more like signals. So they're not directives. And they often we call it being emotional is actually our brain trying to make meaning and predict safety. We always say our brain is here to keep us safe.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

And like you said, you talk to your emotions. Thank you for being here. Yeah, but that's because your brain automatically in that fight or flight mode. Just it's safety. So the healthiest move for you is to share your feelings, like coaches said, state the need or value, and then clarify what you're going to do if it continues to happen. Often I realize that we I think we talked about this before secondhand emotion or feeling. So if I use hurt and exchange it for being mad or angry, right? So you can't say, like, sometimes we notice that people jump from this hurts to you need to change this because you're changing the emotion. You're changing the feeling that you're having and turning it into hurt when really you're sad or anxious, or there's a what insert another feeling. So a lot of times we change it into anger, and that this person needs to change what they're doing when really no, you just need to set the boundary so that you both can move forward.

SPEAKER_02 17:16

Yeah, I've been guilty of that. You know, say like we're so different. You did this, I feel hurt, and expecting that person to change. And that's not fair. That's not fair. It's it really comes down to communication. Communicate what happened, communicate your feeling, what your feeling is. And I'm just, I don't think we're used to communicating about feelings. And if you would like to know more about feelings, please go back to episode 12 where we talk about the F-word.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

Yeah, I mean, and I've been, I think we've all been guilty of it. It's just growth, and it's something that we always have we're always gonna have to work at. At least I know I will. Happened to me recently, and then I had to realize that okay, you're attacking and you're demanding instead of just communicating. But luckily, I know these skills and I was able to take a step back. But I think we all fall into that, no matter how much of an expert you are in this people or this. We do, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:17

Well, we do. I mean, we're humans, we are not perfect, and it I would say the reason that we're in this business, both of us, is we did it because we looked in the mirror, our mirror moments, and realized we needed to be better people, and we're still growing. I mean, even today, I reacted to a situation and my ego jumped out and I regret it. Man, I'm like, Cal, come on, you know better than that. So it and it really all goes back to when something happens, what is our response? And when we feel something, we're not taking the time for it to reach our prefrontal cortex and be curious about it or talk to our feelings, like Erica Kelly shared with us, and understand, take a few breaths, think about it, go for a walk, get a clear head, and use that higher level of thinking to work through it before you react. Because when you react instantly, more often than not, nothing good is going to come from it. But it's a moment that you want to get back. Okay, so that was number two. Feelings are data, not demands. Love it. Okay, truth number three boundaries build self-trust, not comfort. Something we already talked about today about comfort versus discomfort. Boundaries aren't here to make the relationship comfortable, they're here to make the relationship healthy. Comfort can be bought with self-abandonment, self-trust cannot. So, this is where psychological flexibility comes in. People do better when they act in alignment with your values, even when it's uncomfortable. So, we have a couple of examples here. Example A is being minimized. When I share feelings and you call me dramatic, I feel unsafe. Okay. So communicating the feeling, the X and the Y, which is the situation and in my feeling. And the boundary is if I'm minimized again, I'm going to stop sharing vulnerable things until there's respect. Okay. Example B is repeated broken agreements. When you agree to something and then it doesn't happen, I feel like I can't rely on you. The boundary, so I'm going to adjust my expectations and stop building future plans on promises. It's also self-efficacy, so believing you can handle outcomes. So if I'm setting the boundary, I'm expressing the feeling and setting the boundary. A lot of that when we talk about the self-trust, not comfort, is we typically want to go to the comfort where we're just going to allow the boundary to be crossed because we want relational harmony. Keeping peace. But at the end of the day, it's not in alignment with who we are. So for me, it's I'm all about relational harmony, but still it's going to eat at me because it's not in alignment with my values. But when we talk about self-efficacy and we're setting boundaries, and those boundaries are being crossed, we are the ones that allow the boundary to be crossed because of what we control. So if we just continue to allow it, then how is that in alignment with trusting ourselves? Right? Like how we react to the boundary being crossed. So if I say, just like that example, I'm going to adjust my expectations and stop building future plans on promises. Well, if I don't do that, if I don't Adjust my expectations, then I'm not trusting myself. And then I'm choosing comfort. So what I need to do is follow this, believe that even when the boundary happens, you know, or it's crossed, then at the end of the day, I'm gonna be okay when I trust myself and I stop adjusting my expectations, or I when I do adjust my expectations and stop building future plans based on promises. Like I need to follow through with that. I need to, because that's the self-trust. And if I don't follow through with that, then I'm choosing comfort and it's not in alignment with my values. I think that's the better way that I needed to explain that. It took me a while to get there.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

Yeah, and I just want to talk about like when you try, quote unquote, keep the peace or comfort, how you're losing your own inner peace. Like you said, you're not trusting yourself, but you you're you're losing your own inner peace, which eventually is going to catch up with you, and then it's gonna create an unhealthy relationship, not only because your boundary was crossed, but because now you're gonna be lashing on other ways because you never communicated how you felt in the first place.

SPEAKER_02 23:12

Yeah. And essentially you're the one crossing your own boundary because you're not upholding what you said you were gonna do. Because you just want comfort, but if you're not upholding your own boundary and what you're gonna do, then you're not gonna be in alignment and it's not gonna feel good. So when we say self-efficacy, it truly means that even if the boundary is crossed and I stick with my reaction, which is adjusting my expectations and stop building future plans, if I continue to do that, I'm gonna be okay. Everything's gonna be okay. I can handle whatever comes my way. You don't want to know why? Because I'm in alignment with my values. That's it. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

Number four. So number four is boundaries reveal compatibility. So this part is both scary and freeing. Boundaries don't destroy good relationships, they reveal reality. So I can see how that can be scary, and I can also see how that can be free. What predicts closeness is not perfection, it's responsiveness. Does my partner respond to my needs with care and engagement? They respect me enough to respond to the boundary that I have now set and communicated. But what predicts long-term distress is chronic non-responsiveness and poor repair after a conflict. So when you set a boundary, you're not creating distance, you're actually measuring your safety. A few examples of that would be if you say, I need direct conversations, not avoidance, and they respond with curiosity, your connection will grow. But if they respond with mockery, blame, or victimhood, I think compatibility is being revealed at that point. So again, does your partner respect you enough to not cross that boundary and to accept your feelings, to accept your boundary to make you feel safe?

SPEAKER_02 25:06

Yeah, I like that. It's it's a powerful statement that it reveals reality. Because when it happens over and over again, and hopefully we have the follow-through, right? Because it's on us, it's our it's within our locus of control. When it continues to happen, we're not saying that the person is bad or anything like that. That's not it. It's just it's revealing reality. Maybe you're not compatible.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

That's it. Yeah, and actually it shows that that other person cares. Do they care enough to accept what you're expressing or what you're communicating? Right. Do you care about yourself enough to hold true to your boundaries?

SPEAKER_02 25:46

Yeah, so interesting. All right, so that was number four. Boundaries reveal compatibility. Oh, number five. So last one: a boundary without follow-through is just a request. And that is all on you. That you have the follow-through. If you keep stating a boundary, explaining it, rewording it, and making excuses, and nothing changes. The there's no boundary, it doesn't exist. It's a request. You're just putting requests to your partner. There's begging. What's that?

SPEAKER_01 26:18

Begging. Yeah. Begging to be understood. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:22

I mean, and we we've all been there.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

But no judgment here, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_02 26:27

No, no, no. And love without follow-through becomes resentment. When you keep allowing it and there's no follow-through from you, you're gonna resent that other person. Because nothing's gonna change. And in many cases, repeated boundary violations are experienced by the nervous system. This goes back to the different nervous system states as relational threat, which drives anxiety, hypervigilance, or shutdown. And that goes back to the different attachment theories. So when repeated boundary violations happen, for me, that's going to drive my anxiety and hypervigilance. We are complicated as it can be. That is the overthinking, that's the paranoia, that's always checking the phone. I mean that ruminating. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

Yeah. One thing when I was doing some research and it was a quote that says, Your mental health sometimes isn't your fault, but it's your responsibility. So we all understand that prior relationships or your experience with relationships, whether that be starting at childhood or relationship that you're in, we all understand that you may have gained some traitors and trauma from that along the way. But again, it's not your fault, maybe, but it's definitely a responsibility to make sure that you're taking care of yourself, setting those boundaries and really understanding your feelings and emotions.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

Absolutely. Absolutely. So an example for follow-through. If we can't talk about conflict without disappearing for days, I'm going to pause the relationship conversations until we can communicate. That's that's it. Another one is if exclusivity isn't respected, I'm going to step back from commitment. And that came from an example. Oh, I wanted to share an example of the social media. Did I send you that example? That the partner is DMing people on social media and the messages seem intimate, which happens, I'm sure. It happens. And the boundary is it makes me feel unsafe in this relationship. And so that's if it exclusivity isn't respected, I'm going to step back from commitment. That's that's strong. I mean, that's that is if it continues, I will not remain committed.

SPEAKER_01 28:52

I think for the for maybe not even just the younger crowd that's listening, but I think I see so many people fall into that trap. And I just know being that person as well at some point. Like, you know what I mean? Like just committing to something that's not real.

SPEAKER_02 29:08

Well, but even a simple text sometimes. Yeah. You don't know the context. So if my partner is texting somebody and it's kind of, you know, a message that I would concern me, I don't know the context of that. I don't know the friendship or relationship. So that to me would be something that would be concerning that I would set a boundary with. Yeah. Not revenge, not punishment, but it's alignment with who we are.

SPEAKER_01 29:39

I think there's also a fine line that we didn't really mention it, but when it comes to trust, too. Like, okay, I get that certain things making feel a certain way. X happens, feel Y, and this is Z. I think this is where people mix up boundaries with being threatened. Because it's like, okay, well, where is the trust in this? Because you don't set a boundary for every part of my life. So that's when it becomes demanding. Like, I can't even be on social media now. That is the boundary setting.

SPEAKER_02 30:09

That's unrealistic. That's pretty aggressive. There's people that's what people do. It but if you need to set a lot of boundaries, probably not compatible. Probably not compatible. Or if you need to set a lot of boundaries and there's no follow-through from either of you, probably not compatible.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

Probably not compatible, yeah. Because if I love and care about you and you tell me I feel this way, and this is what's going to happen if we can't fix it. If I care and love you, I'm going to find a way to make sure I I remember and respect that value. Hands down. If I don't care about you, maybe not. Right. Not compatible. Yeah.

unknown 30:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

Or I'm not serious about it on a relationship.

SPEAKER_02 30:52

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it could be something that isn't in alignment with your values. And then values would be revealed. Really? I mean, that's that to me, that's probably one of the most important things in in a relationship is understanding and knowing each other's values.

unknown 31:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:10

And your priorities. Actually, that's my homework today. I was in a class today and we're talking about values and what your priorities are and how to stay balanced in all areas and aspects of your life. And yeah, I mean, everyone in the class obviously had different values. They had different priorities in their life that they wanted to meet. And I feel like if your values don't align, but it's just be how can you be compatible?

SPEAKER_02 31:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:36

And you got to understand your own values. It all starts with you. It's all the self-awareness. It's so funny because I was talking with Colonel Pasley today, so I'm giving giving her a shout-out right now. Colonel Pasley. Oh god, she's she's brilliant. I mean, she really is. I will tell you, she is brilliant. I could listen to her all day, every day. Just wind her up, wind her up and and just go. And that sweet country accent helps. Yeah, I I mean, I just like more, more, please. Yeah, I hope she's listening. We're raving about you. And we were talking about the peace index through the five voices, through the giant, and then even this. I didn't talk about this, but when we talk about the self-trust and being in alignment with your values and understanding that, you know, when you set the boundaries and follow through, that means that you're in alignment with your values. And I was talking about the peace index and being in alignment and your communication comes out, and people know when you're in alignment. And she's like, Kelly, that's integrity. She didn't say it like that. So let me do that over. Yeah, she's like, You know what that is? Integrity. And I'm like, gosh, you're brilliant. That's like we're here. I'm explaining it for a good five minutes, right?

SPEAKER_01 32:54

She's like she slaps a word on there, like, oh, that closes it all.

SPEAKER_02 32:58

That's integrity. Boom. Boom. You gotta have integrity for yourself. But what's interesting is we use the word integrity a lot. God, we gotta get her on the show. She should have her own show, honestly. We I mean, I would listen to her every day. We use the word integrity a lot, but we don't really explore it deeper. So even hearing her say that today after my five-minute dissertation on all of this stuff, trying to make sense of it to this brilliant person that's sitting next to me. And she says integrity, I'm like, boom. We don't talk about it, we say it, but let's explore a little bit more what integrity truly is. It's like a buzzword in care of force, anyways. Yeah, I mean, we we use a lot of buzzwords, but but you know, it and then it I I love going down the bunny holes. Yeah, kind of that doesn't sound right. No, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 33:57

Okay, I shouldn't say it. So we're just gonna keep using rabbit hole because I don't I'm going down the bad bunny hole. Yeah, there we go. That sounds better than the bunny hole.

SPEAKER_02 34:09

Oh, I'm going down the bad bunny hole. All right, bonito. Love it. All right, so on that note, going down the bad bunny hole. Let's take a quick detour. Let's do the detour.

SPEAKER_01 34:19

All right, what do you have planned for us? Oh, yeah, this detour is mine. Yes. Oh, okay. So we're gonna do red flag, green flag. So I'm gonna say a statement, and you have to tell me for your partner or a partner if you think that would be a red or green flag. Oh, I'm talking about my partner. Oh, okay, cool.

SPEAKER_02 34:38

So for her, if it's red or green?

SPEAKER_01 34:42

So the statement is about the other person.

SPEAKER_02 34:44

Oh, if they were to do it, would I say it's red or green?

SPEAKER_01 34:47

Yes. Okay. Dang, I should have really thought about your partner and put. Have you seen them TikToks? Where they asked their parents about a red or green flag and everything they put all the red flags were actually about their parents think they actually do. Oh my god. I should have got something like that. I gotta see that. I gotta watch that. It's hilarious. Because they're like, wait, is this about me? After the few red flags. All right. All right, let's try this. Let's a dog lick their face. What? Let's let their dog lick their face. Oh, so if she were to do it, I would would that be red or green flag for you?

SPEAKER_02 35:24

Well, we don't have dogs, but so I would say hypothetically, I know I'm your partner.

SPEAKER_01 35:31

You can't be literal here. We're talking in general. Red. That's a red flag for me. You're letting the dog lick your face. It's disgusting.

SPEAKER_02 35:40

It's red. It's red. I mean, you can have whatever you want. At least, at least let the dog do it when I'm not around. Like have your dog time and then have me time. I don't want to see it. You don't want to see the dog lick in her face, and then you what you go in for a smooch?

SPEAKER_01 35:54

That's weird.

SPEAKER_02 35:54

Oh no, red. Red rum. Red rum. Do you know remember red rum? Red rum. It was another movie. I don't endorse it.

SPEAKER_01 36:06

I think we're getting delusional at their choice. Oh god. Okay. Um, claps when the plane lands. Oh god. I wouldn't.

SPEAKER_02 36:16

That would make me mad. I would be fine with it, honestly. I would it's a green flag. I would be totally fine if she were to clap when the I I would think that's cute. You think it's funny? She would never do it though.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

She would never do it. No, she wouldn't. These aren't real things. I would I didn't have her in mind when I no flat sheets on the bed. What do you mean? No flat sheet. You got a fin sheet, a flat sheet, and a comforter. I don't know. I mean the fitted the fitted one goes around the bed and the flat one, and then you have a comforter. You can be like sheet. Yes, flat. Yes. It's that red or green and black. If she didn't have it. Oh, she didn't have it? She didn't have it. Red. You know what? I hate that damn flat sheet. I don't have it on my bed. Why? I get tangled up in it. Like when I'm sleeping, I like get tangled. I hate it.

SPEAKER_02 37:14

Oh no, I just always thought it was a thing. I I it has nothing to do with it has nothing to do with my sexual preference. It's it's I think I always grew up with a flat sheet. I think that's how we live. I thought it was a good one.

SPEAKER_01 37:28

Yeah, you're supposed to have a flat sheet, but I'm just saying it wouldn't bother me because I literally take mine off on purpose. I hate it. I get tangled up in that thing every time. Yeah. Alright. The need to be posted. Red or green flag? The need to be what? Posted. Like on social media. Oh. You have to post me or it's not real.

SPEAKER_02 37:51

Oh. The need to be red.

SPEAKER_01 37:54

I don't feel that's controlled.

SPEAKER_02 37:58

What did you say? What did you say?

SPEAKER_01 38:00

It's a red flag. Why do you need to be posted? Like, how is that a showing my love for you?

SPEAKER_02 38:07

Yeah. Yeah. I don't I don't I don't look at it as a need. It's cute sometimes for the public, you know, for a public hello, I love you, whatever, but I don't look at it as a need.

SPEAKER_01 38:19

All right. Says they're on the way, but they haven't left yet. Oh red. Because if I'm sitting here waiting on you, oh yeah, and I'm dressed, like I would I'd purposely take my time sometimes because if that would really I probably would leave somebody else.

SPEAKER_02 38:41

Yeah, I I mean I so I I would say for you, I very much understand why it would be red because and your time is so precious, you are so busy, like you are you are T cat, like you guys things going on all over Florida, all over the state of Florida in two days. You are all over, up, down, north, south, east, west. So you have no time is precious, you have no time to be waiting on people.

SPEAKER_01 39:07

You're right, they should be waiting on me. Yeah, exactly. That's not that's not nice. You are the Ray Cat. Okay. Instead of replacing the toilet paper rule, they set the roll on top of the old one. Oh, that was so they don't put it back, like they ran out of toilet paper and they didn't. Oh, they ran out, they ran out, like and they didn't take the time to put the new roll on there, they just set it on top.

SPEAKER_02 39:33

Yeah, red. I yeah, red. If it is completely out of squares and it's just the cardboard thing, and you didn't change it. I mean, just change it. Would I get pissed?

SPEAKER_01 39:43

No, but it's uh well, yeah, it doesn't mean that you're gonna be mad. Red red doesn't mean you're mad, it's just like that's a red flag, right? Red rum. Red rum. Red rum. All right. Uh let's what about you? What about you? Oh, that's a red flag. I need you to replace it. Yeah, like just put it, it takes two seconds. Now, yeah, I'm not gonna say I haven't done that before, but I know.

SPEAKER_02 40:07

This is all making me think like, oh my god, have I done these? These were about you, you didn't know. I'm totally kidding. I'm kidding. Ask her. Oh my god. Oh god, she'll she'll definitely say, Oh yeah, she's gonna clap. Kelly will clap at the end of a flight. That's probably a red flag for her. But yes, yes, but she lets me be mean. That's the good thing. She just lets me okay, sings in the car at the top of their lungs. Well, green flag. And I'm saying green flag for my partner specifically because she never sings. Are you serious? Yeah, she never sings around me. So when she even sings like one line of a song, I'm like, what? What? What get the money? What? What? So any day, all day, every day, and twice on Sunday, I would love for her to sing at the top of her lungs. So I would say green flag in my situation, but normally I would say red flag, like let me listen to the music.

SPEAKER_01 41:10

Oh, so you know it's a great flag for me. I need us to be singing at the top of our lungs all the way home. Oh, wow. Full-blown concert. I mean, not every time. Yeah, but like if you chose to do it, um I'm joining in. Yeah. Leaves one sip of juice in the fridge. Red.

unknown 41:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:31

Same. Yeah, same. Yeah. Just drink it or throw it in the five. Yeah, I don't even care.

SPEAKER_02 41:36

Just drink it. Yeah, just just drink it. Don't leave it. Our refrigerators are so small. Do they get smaller? They're so small that mine has nothing. A juice container takes up space. So once it's like low, just drink it or get rid of it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:51

Like, why didn't you read this here? Okay. Only has one pillow on their bed. That's a red flag. Where I need it.

SPEAKER_02 42:01

I need you to have a I need a pillow. I would say that's a red flag. If I did not have, yeah, if it was just me and I did not have a partner, and I did not have my mom and my aunts come and help me out with the house and put pillows all over and pillows on my bed, I would just have my one flat pillow, and that is it. So really, but I but I would say red because you know you should have more than one pillow on your bed. You should.

unknown 42:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:32

Okay, if you want doesn't return the grocery cart.

SPEAKER_02 42:36

Yeah, red. Red rum.

SPEAKER_01 42:39

What for you? It's red, but I I don't always return the grocery cart.

SPEAKER_00 42:44

So like but I mean, as a man, you should you have they'll take the grocery cart back. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 42:51

Yeah, but you could too. Why don't you return it? I mean, what you're like, I I feel like I I feel like where do you put it then? Like, because there's either the cart return in the parking lot or there's the cart return at Publix. But I will say, like, the publics, there's not many cart returns, so I always get irritated. But I understand, then I take it all the way in, and that's okay. But yeah, I I return it.

SPEAKER_01 43:19

Yeah, there was a whole debate on TikTok or some podcasts about people returning their grocery cars, and they're like, Oh, I look to see people return their grocery cars because that showed your character. You just left this out here, and now these people gotta come and collect all these grocery cards. Like they were serious about it, and I'm like, but you know, I I do make it a point to return the grocery cart if I don't have my son. Now, if I'm pushing the cart all the way out there and I unload the groceries and then I gotta put him in the car or take him back with me. I can't leave him in the car to return the grocery cart. And I'm like, what the heck do I do? I'm ready to get out of here. He's screaming, you know, it just depends. But if I don't have him, I will walk it to the return cart. Yeah, yeah, I understand.

SPEAKER_02 44:00

Yeah, and I don't think you judge a person's character by one situation if they don't return a cart. Sometimes when we are walking in parking lots, we aren't thinking. We aren't really present in the moment. And we just don't, we're not thinking. And yeah, we just are on autopilot sometimes. How many times do you go out to the parking lot after you come out of the store and you don't remember where you park your car? Um all the time. It happens very often. Yeah. And even when I walk into the store and I say, Kelly, remember where you park the car. And I come out of the store and I do not remember where I parked the car. And I talk to myself, here I go again. I can't figure this out. You're beating it every and I have an old car, so that doesn't help. Thing doesn't even work. Guys, it's the worst of the airport.

SPEAKER_01 44:56

Yeah. The worst of the airport when it comes back.

SPEAKER_02 44:58

I I tell myself, Kelly, don't forget, it's right there, right? You see how you're going in, you go. And and I still can't get it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:06

I've that mess said all the time. I do that all the time. All right. Uh let's just do one more. Let me find a good one. I think I did all the good ones though.

SPEAKER_02 45:16

No, when I go to the airport, I take a picture of where I park.

SPEAKER_01 45:20

Yeah, I do too now because there's one time I went up and down those elevators like 10 times. Brutal. I could not remember. I see yeah. I need to remember to take a picture. All right. What about buy snacks just for you? No. Red flag.

SPEAKER_02 45:37

They're buying snacks just for you. No. I'm uh if I'm going to get snacks, I'm getting snacks for everybody. And when she gets snacks, she better get snacks for me.

SPEAKER_01 45:50

No, I'm what? Wait, I'd say if she buys snacks just for you, like remembers oh, this is your favorite snack. 2000, like Krugwit and bought snack for herself. No, green all the way, green baby. I wonder if this actually happened before. Green, baby, green. Come on, dang, that's a nice gesture.

SPEAKER_02 46:14

No, I mean, she knows she knows how us Krugers are with snacks. Like, we like don't eat in front of us. When you if you're eating in front of us, please offer us. And then the snacks have to be in the daily lineup every day. Yeah. I misunderstood. I thought she would buy snacks just for herself. I would flip out. Yeah, that's rude. That is rude.

SPEAKER_00 46:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:40

All right, that was all I had. What was yours? Was yours green? Oh, yeah. Yeah. You buy me snacks. That's like a love language. Oh, God. I like flowers and snacks and all the things. Like you thought about me at the store, and I really appreciate that.

SPEAKER_02 46:54

Yeah. Yeah. Flowers and snacks. That's that's it.

SPEAKER_01 46:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:58

It's not hard. Yeah. It's not, it's not difficult. Yeah. You ready? Hop back on the trail. Let's get back on the trail. All right. With some tools here. So what kind of tools do we want to share? The model. The model with people. Fits in everything. Behavioral therapy. The model. I'm going to do a pop-up coaching session soon. I'm going to offer one and teach people how to use the model in their everyday lives. And it's all about reacting. It's circumstance, your thought that you apply to it. That drives a feeling. Feelings drive action or inaction and a result. So it's all about understanding your feelings, taking time to think about it, understanding why you feel what you're feeling, and then acting appropriately. So, all right, go back to the tools.

SPEAKER_01 47:51

What do we got? So for me, I think the way to start off identifying what makes you uncomfortable or defensive. So being curious, write it down, track it, write down your feelings so you can remove yourself, like we talked about before. And then writing down what your values are, your moral compass so that way you can properly create a boundary.

SPEAKER_02 48:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:15

But you need to identify those first and track your feelings.

SPEAKER_02 48:19

Yep. Okay. I'm going to go with the boundary clarifier question. Ask yourself this and be brutally honest about it. If nothing about their behavior changed, what would I need to do to stay emotionally safe? And the answer is the boundary that you set. That's going to strengthen your agency, what you control, and your self-efficacy to understand that regardless of what happens, you can handle it because you're going to be in alignment. So if nothing about their behavior changed, what would I need to do to stay emotionally safe? Okay.

SPEAKER_01 48:57

So tool number two, when X happens, XYZ, I will Z. So that's yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:04

I think that's like really easy to understand. The XYZ. When X happens, I feel Y, so I'm going to do Z. Yes. That's it. Easy.

SPEAKER_01 49:14

Easy. Okay. I like the control check. So it stops the chasing. So a few things you can think about where you're trying to set your boundary. Well, first we should be using I statements. But when you're ready to set your boundary, if you catch yourself saying things like, I need them to understand. Maybe if I explain it better, because now you're not being true to your boundary. Or I don't want to rock the boat, the avoidance piece, trying to keep the peace. We already talked about how that can affect you and your relationship in the long run.

SPEAKER_03 49:44

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 49:45

Yep. Okay. One of the tools to go along with that is you can ask yourself, am I trying to control the outcome or honor myself?

SPEAKER_02 49:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:54

Question that you can ask yourself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:56

Yeah, that's a pretty important question. Like I would I would think like in my history, I've probably tried to control the outcome and versus like not honoring myself.

SPEAKER_01 50:07

But yeah. Look, you live and you learn. Yeah. We all live and we learn, don't we?

SPEAKER_02 50:14

Yeah, well, look, that's why we grow. That's what, yes, this that's what this is all about growth. That's that's what Trell Talks is, and that's why we're in this business because we're growing. We are not perfect, we are a mess sometimes. And the last tool is the February love reality check. And this we talked about they reveal boundaries, reveal compatibility and they reveal reality. So love isn't proven by constant access or perfect consistency, it's revealed by the response, the repair, the curiosity, and respect that you give each other. That is partnership. Because relationships, successful relationships, aren't built on never messing up, they're built on how you come back together. All right, we're ready to close this out. All right. Hey, everybody, let's just recap the five truths about the boundaries. This was a fun one. Top five truths about boundaries in love. Truth number one, boundaries are about what you control. Truth number two, feelings are data, not demands.

SPEAKER_01 51:23

Truth number three, boundaries build self-trust, not comfort. And truth number four is boundaries reveal compatibility. And truth number five is a boundary without follow-through is just a request.

SPEAKER_02 51:37

There she is, Raycat, everybody. Saving the day. What was yours, K-mike? K Mike. All right. We are signing off. Hey, everybody, boundaries aren't walls, they are clarity. They're not about controlling someone you love, they're about trusting yourself enough to protect your emotional safety and letting love be built on respect, not chasing. Have a good one. We'll see you next time on the trail. See you. If today's conversation resonated with you, you don't have to walk your journey alone. I offer emotional intelligence assessments with personalized coaching, one on one mindset coaching, and leadership development for teams and organizations. You can explore all of that at Kellymichelle Coaching.com. Linked in the show notes. And I'll leave you with this awareness is powerful, but support is transformational.