Why Teams Stay Stuck

🌀 What happens when a team talks about the same problem over and over… but nothing actually changes?

In this episode of Trail Talks 🎙️, Kelly officially welcomes Vanessa Valdez as co-host as they unpack why teams, workplaces, and even friendships can get stuck in the same cycles.

Through leadership stories 💡, Ted Lasso references ⚽, practical conversation, and a hilarious detour into airplane etiquette ✈️😂, this episode explores what creates movement inside a team — and what quietly keeps people spinning in circles.

Because sometimes the biggest leadership challenge is not identifying the problem…
It’s helping people move forward. 🌲

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Hey everyone, welcome back to Trail Talks, the podcast where we talk about growth, the messy, the beautiful, and everything in between. I'm your host, Kelly Kruger, founder of Kelly Michelle Coaching, where we focus on mindset, emotional intelligence, and leadership, all grounded in real life and real science. And joining me is my co-host and partner in growth, founder of Leading People LLC Terrace Tonet, the leadership trainer and facilitator who brings insight, curiosity, and real-world perspective to every episode. So wherever you're listening from today, we're glad you're here, and thank you for joining us on the trail. Hey everybody, welcome back to Trail Talks. Thanks for joining us. So she has inspired this podcast. She produces the podcast, and today she is officially joining me as a co-host. She has spent close to 20 years leading large teams of people in both the Air Force and civilian sector, building culture, mentoring and developing people, and leading through crisis, pressure, and challenges. She currently serves as an Air Force First Sergeant and as a TSA manager at Tampa International Airport. And most important to me, she's my person. Please welcome Vanessa Valdez. Vanessa, welcome to Trail Talks, or this side of Trail Talks.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Thank you so much. What an honor. What a ride. It's such a great podcast. I'm very biased.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

You do a great job editing it.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

It's much easier to be on the back side than uh than in front of the camera. Many props to you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

How are you feeling today?

SPEAKER_00 1:50

You know, I'm feeling pretty good. Good. I like new. This is new, so it's exciting.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

New, new is good. Yeah, we we took a little break, just kind of doing a reset, and we're back at it and excited to be here. I think for the last two months, we've been on a tear talking about leadership. And we're gonna continue to talk about leadership today, but leadership among teams and why teams stay stuck. Have you ever been in a meeting, Vanessa, where you talk about problems a lot and you can describe the problem, and people pitch in and everybody has something to say, but you walk away and it wasn't productive? It was a productive conversation complaining about the problem, but there was no movement forward.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

Absolutely. Yeah, that's it's so sad because you do, you feel good. You know, like we got there, we know what's going on. How many times do you not know? And uh, no, no, this is very well rehearsed. We beat this horse.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

Yeah, and it happens more often than we even think for our listeners. I guess try to think of the last time this has happened to you. And it happens, you know, in the workforce, in your team, in your company. Just think of any time there was a problem or a challenge or some sort of change that affected your team, your programs, your products, you know, whatever your company is. And let's say you sat in a meeting for 45 minutes and you talk about it a lot, but no real movement is made to solve the problem. So this episode is all about why teams stay stuck in that problem versus moving forward. We will share three reasons why teams are stuck, and then we're gonna give you three tools to get unstuck. You can also apply this to your personal life as well. And we're gonna give some examples of our personal lives in certain situations or areas where we sometimes feel stuck and we don't move forward. And it kind of aligns with our previous episodes of goal setting and the gritty eight, things like that, where we tend to be stuck and not make movement. So we'll give you three reasons why teams stay stuck, and then three tools to get unstuck. Sound good?

SPEAKER_00 4:18

That sounds great. And I wanted to throw in a little extra piece. Yes, thank you. I know you're a Ted Lasso fan, as am I.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

Yes, right.

SPEAKER_00 4:31

Love that, ma'am. Love that show.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

And that was our there was our that was our first sort of date.

SPEAKER_00 4:37

This yes, the season finale.

SPEAKER_01 4:39

We sat and watched the season finale, the series finale, because we didn't think it was coming back, the series finale on my little laptop screen. Yes, yes, and I and I had different color socks on. Or no, not different. I had no not different color. I'm sorry, and I had different socks on.

SPEAKER_00 5:00

They were different brands, different brands, they were both white different brands.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

Yeah, I was a mess, y'all. Look, I was a mess. I I I wore the same socks. I I have matching socks now, but yes, that night I thought we were all big and bad watching Ted Lasso on my little laptop screen and also had mismatched socks on. That was great.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

It was a wonderful evening.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

And we're still here.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

Yes, we are.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

Yes, we are. All right, yeah. So we're gonna do something a little bit different with this. We're gonna we're gonna give you the three reasons and three tools, and we're also gonna add some pop culture in there. So for you Ted Lasso fans, this is going to resonate with you. And we think that given this example of Ted Lasso, I mean, true, although it was a show, uh, a great leader and great example of a great leader who not only I call like the people whisperer, but um also he went through his own challenges in life.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Absolutely. And the tie-in with Ted Lasso. So for some of you that don't recall, or maybe it's been a while, the Ted Lasso is a show about soccer on the surface, but underneath this really about leadership, teamwork, identity, emotional intelligence, and what happens when emotionally wounded people try to work together. The reason we wanted to use Ted Lasso for this conversation is because AFC Richmond is not a stuck team because they lack talent, they're stuck because of ego, insecurities, resentment, distrust, emotional baggage. Does that not sound familiar?

SPEAKER_01 6:39

I say it all the time. Everybody's different, everybody has different experiences, everybody's carrying a different bag, and that's what makes a team so beautiful. Yep. That's what makes a team work, the differences.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

And that's how they're able to go so much farther than is one person leading that to the show.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

Football. He said soccer, it's football.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

Football. Oh goodness. Football is life, football is life.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

That one character.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

Oh, I love him too.

SPEAKER_01 7:16

All right, are we ready to get started?

SPEAKER_00 7:18

I believe so. I believe so.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

Okay, so our first reason why teams are stuck. Number one, discussion feels like progress. And this could be a trap because discussion does matter. We want to address the issue or the problem or the challenge, you know, or the barrier. We want to address it. Sometimes you need to analyze it. Sometimes you need to kind of work through it and let everybody kind of say their piece. So we should talk about it. We should analyze it. We should understand it, understand how it affects us, how it affects our company, how it affects our employees. But at some point, conversation can start to feel like movement, even though nothing is actually moving. So you spend 45 minutes talking through the issue, or however long everyone contributes to the conversation. The conversation can sound pretty intelligent because y'all know what you're talking about. People are agreeing, people are getting along, everybody's pitching in, but then you walk away from the meeting and what was accomplished. A well-described problem. You built a well-described problem. So you fool yourself, you leave the room saying, Hey, that was a great conversation, but but absolutely nothing changed. There was no turning the corner, so no progress was made.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

Yeah, teams often confuse the awareness with action. The example that I pulled with Roy, so Roy Kent, gosh, I love him. He's so grumpy, he's so angry, and such a good footballer. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01 9:05

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

And he's not one of the kids anymore. So there's some stuff going on around that. And he becomes emotionally attached to what's wrong with the team instead of helping build what's next. And the team picks it up, that bad energy, it spreads so quickly. So that was one of those pieces that Ted had to come in and and figure out what in the universe was going on.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

Yeah, Roy his growth game had to get strong pretty quick. Like somebody needed to grow up on that team, probably quicker than others, and that one was Roy.

SPEAKER_00 9:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

So in the beginning, he was complaining. He was part of the problem.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

And he was getting worse at the game.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

Because it was affecting his game as well.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

Yep. Yeah. And that's a good point. Because once your team gets stuck in a problem and they don't turn the corner, more than likely that's going to happen again. Because we tend to repeat our actions and we start developing tendencies and patterns. You guys, for listeners, you will notice this more often as you sit in meetings and dealing with problems or working through problems or challenges. That at some point you got to turn the corner. And sometimes that corner is not turned. There's no movement. So there's some research behind this. Researchers, Amabiele and Kramer, studied thousands of daily work diary entries and found that the best inner work life is the motivation, the emotion, perception people bring to work is driven by making progress in meaningful work. People want to do meaningful work. Sitting around and describing problems and sitting in problems is not meaningful work. And this aligns with most leadership books out there about teams. I had picked one up earlier, the five dysfunctions of a team, that the opposite of one of those is meaningful work. The Google Aristotle project, one of the factors for a high-performing team is meaning. People want to do meaningful work. And to do meaningful work, you have to actually work through solutions and movement and take steps forward, progress, improvement, know where you are, know where you want to be, and fill in those gaps. So why this matters is teams can get this psychological reward from just talking because they're talking about the problem with a group of people, and people are nodding and agreeing. When I'm explaining something and people are nodding and agreeing with me, I feel a little bit of that dopamine come through because it's almost like, oh, I'm right. Oh, it looks like they're agreeing with me. They're they're validating what I'm saying. So it's it's like this fake reward when you're really not earning anything. So when you talk about things, the planning and analysis of talking about a problem can almost feel like you are actually solving something. But unless the conversation creates a real next step, you you may feel better without actually being better. So you can feel it, but you're not actually being better. So we overestimate the value of the conversation and underestimate the discipline required to execute after the conversation.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

Well, yeah, then we just make it sound easy. We know what we're talking about now.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Yeah. People like to talk.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

They sure do.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

All right. Reason two for why teams stay stuck. Love this one. No one owns the next step. Man, it's huge. Because a lot of teams I don't want to do the work.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

Come on.

SPEAKER_01 13:13

Right, right. So, yeah. Why do we think nobody's gonna own that next step? Nobody's gonna take ownership of it. Why do you think that, Vanessa?

SPEAKER_00 13:21

Well, I'm certain, I'm certain my idea has been shut down one too many times. So it's someone else's turn. They can they can have the lead on this.

SPEAKER_01 13:30

Yeah, it you can tell real quick if there is if there is a concerning culture in that room or in that organization, among that team, lack of psychological safety. If the problem is being discussed among people, however, nobody's willing to pitch their ideas or turn the corner because they've been shut down before. People may not feel heard among that team.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

This is true. What about leadership dynamics? If you have someone who is supposed to be in charge, you rely on them to take charge. But maybe they're not a good leader, but they don't follow through. And it's scary to step on those toes and actually stand up and say, you know what, I got this. This is what we're gonna do.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

Yeah, it's unfortunate that we would have leaders out there that are in those positions where they are a part of the problem and not a part of the solution. As the leader, I'm the one that will say, okay, what can we control in the situation? All right, how are we gonna turn the corner? We've addressed the problem, got it. But what can we control in the situation? What can we influence, and how do we get there? What is the end result that we want? What is our goal? And then we work toward that goal. That leader needs to be the person that takes that ownership and says, now what? Two very easy words, one very easy phrase to say, now what? Or what are we gonna do about this? How are we going to move past this? But yet we struggle doing that. For one, it could be the culture, could be people not feeling safe, it could be because taking ownership requires effort. That if I say, okay, this is what we're gonna do, then all of a sudden I'm owning it, and now I'm the one that's you know leading this effort. Well, I think that's good. I like a challenge, I want to solve the problems, I don't want to sit in a problem. Some it's discomfort because talking about the problem is easy, solving the problem is difficult, and people want easy. We're an autopilot, we want easy. So we need somebody to take ownership of this, and that is now what? What could we do about this? How are we gonna work through this? What can we control? And then figure out how you're gonna get there.

SPEAKER_00 16:13

Back to our boy Roy. Boy, he boy Roy, here we go. He initially acts like an emotional critic standing outside of the solution, but his breakthrough happens when he realizes that complaining about the culture is still participating in that culture. So once he owns that piece and he understands that he's a little angry at himself, everything starts to shift emotionally. The temperature of the team shifts. The crazy thing about any team is strong personalities create the emotional weather system, and he was definitely the number one guy for a long time. So we all know that guy who's been there, done that. And man, he's sitting in the corner, got a lot of opinions, no solutions. That's not how we used to do it.

SPEAKER_01 17:07

Yeah, yeah, he he was the vet. He was the vet, and he was part of the problem. And you know what it takes, though, to turn that corner as the individual, and to realize that you could be part of the problem and you need to take ownership of it, it takes humility. I always talk about humility and and how important it is to be humble. He had to humble himself, he was humbled and he needed to turn that corner, but he couldn't do it without being humble. That I don't know everything. This is as much as of my team as it is everybody else's. And as the leader of this team, because he was, I shape this culture, I move us through problems, I advance this team. He turned the corner.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

He did, but it was Ted who asked him, Who do you want to be? Yeah, because everyone knew that that's not who it was. That's not who he is, that's not who he was, and that's sure enough not who he wanted to be.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

It's a great question to ask somebody. It's a great question to ask a team. What do you want to be? What do you want to be known for? What do you want your legacy to be? Great questions. All right, I think we got point two. So reason one, discussion feels like progress. Reason two, no one owns the next step. And reason three, the energy stays in the problem. Some boy, yeah, some conversations never leave what is wrong. They stay focused on what happened, how they got there, who's at fault. We gotta find out who who to blame them in all this, yes, who caused it, how it's unfair to us and our company and our team, what leadership doesn't understand, what resources are missing, what policy won't allow, what's already been tried, and it's so much energy staying in that conversation, and they can become so emotional in the problem, they can explain it so well and defend it, but no one shifts that passion toward action.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

Yes, yes. I was gonna talk about the emotions when the team spend more energy managing the emotions than solving the problem, the momentum dies. Yeah, and good night. The emotions, it's all about me. No, it's a team, and then the team, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

And this the the research behind this, I mean, it makes sense from a from a neuroscience perspective, it makes sense because when we perceive uncertainty, which is always there, it's uncertain, unfairness, lack of control, threat, the brain moves into the threat response. This is David's uh rock scarf model, social threats, status certainty, autonomy relatedness, and fairness. So they all activate threat responses in in ways that can impact decision-making and collaboration. So when there is a problem or your team is is presented with a challenge, the team feels that threat. So they have a tough time moving past it or moving beyond the threat. So when they stay within that threat language, nobody listens, nothing changes because each individual is now in threat mode and working through their own challenges, you know, in individually, because we all react differently. We all react based on the experiences that we've had in our lives and we all have different experiences.

SPEAKER_00 20:52

And we're still working, we don't stop and figure this out. We are continuing to work dysfunctionally every day until we solve it. Yeah, so Roy becomes emotionally attached to old Sanders, lost identity and disappointment. His breakthrough happens when he stops trying to reclaim the old Roy and starts becoming the next version of Roy.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

Yep. Yeah, it takes it takes strength to surrender, though. It's not easy to admit that for one, you're part of the problem, and two, you need to grow up. Yeah, it's a very uncomfortable feeling to have. I want to add something to really all the reasons, and it's one of my favorite quotes. I should have said it at the beginning of the episode, is an Einstein quote, and I could get this wrong, but you can't solve problems with the same level of thinking you had when the problem was created. And that quote uh aligns with every single one of these reasons, all three reasons. Because when a problem is created, or you're sitting in the problem with your team, you tend to use your limbic system, your emotional thinking. So you're reacting in a negative manner, because it's probably the easiest thing to do at that point because you're kind of on autopilot. And when you hear other people complaining or describing the problem, you're just going to join in versus taking a separate stance on it, separate perspective. So what Einstein means is that you need to have a different level of thinking or a higher level of thinking is now using your prefrontal cortex, which is where problem solving, decision-making, logical reasoning is applied. It's one of my favorites. Okay, so those three reasons discussion feels like progress, no one owns the next step, and the energy stays in the problem. How about we take a detour?

SPEAKER_00 22:59

All right. So you've been doing some traveling lately, and I thought it would be fun, since I am in the airport business. Let's talk about some unwritten travel rules on airplanes.

SPEAKER_01 23:13

Um, they should be written.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

We have enough rules at the airport.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

Yes. That are not followed. We we could write this book, um travel etiquette.

SPEAKER_00 23:26

You ever think it's been done?

SPEAKER_01 23:28

It probably has been.

SPEAKER_00 23:29

I'm certain it hasn't been read, but it's been okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um let's see what you got questions?

SPEAKER_00 23:38

I'm gonna give you an easy one to start with because I do have a couple questions for you. How do you feel about people not using their headphones?

SPEAKER_01 23:47

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_00 23:48

They're on a FaceTime call right before it's time to take off. No, they mean part of the conversation.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

They they need to use the headphones. I actually think the flight attendants actually announce it now. The last flight, yeah. The last couple flights I was on, they actually announced that when you're watching something or whatever, that you wear your headphones. So you're not bothering your neighbor. I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_00 24:14

As does everyone else that doesn't want to hear about it.

SPEAKER_01 24:17

Everybody, I mean, everybody, everybody should have a pair of headphones by now. I don't know like how you can get on a plane and think you don't need headphones.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

I just get totally annoyed when they're talking to Grandpa Joe. And yeah. What you heard me? What? And it just come on, come on, guys. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

Look, I I wear my headphones on the plane even when I'm not using them because I need to show people that I don't want to talk to them. I'm not open, I'm not open for business. The second I sit down, I get I get all my stuff, I get my headphones, put them on. I don't even listen to anything.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

Yes, I do that. I think I shared, I do that, and I also put on a sleeping mask.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

Yes, you are you are totally closed off to the world on my window seat.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

Yeah, you're pretty clear.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

Yep, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Curl up in that window, you can have the armrest and do you. Yep. We are all good.

SPEAKER_01 25:19

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

All right, so how do you feel about food on a plane?

SPEAKER_01 25:25

Yuck. Hot food. Do not bring hot food on a plane. Snacks, fine. I don't care. They give snacks there, but I mean that you just stopped at McDonald's or Popeye's or got a full-blown or got a full eating or a full-blown Mexican meal and you bring it on the plane. Do you realize the environment that you're in and we are in this small space and we are closed off? I mean, windows shut, door shut, everything, and you are bringing smelly food onto this plane. It's absolutely disgusting. I will take a big old slice of pizza. I would throw up. I would throw how I can understand if you are running so late, but still, even then, you can shove food in your mouth as you're walking across the bridge or whatever they call it. You can shove food in your mouth at that point and then throw it in the trash.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

I'm taking my sweet three-hour flight to watch my movie, eat my pizza. It's disgusting. I guess we won't be sitting next to each other.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

Oh, I you tell me next time when somebody brings hot food and maybe that hot food contains onions. Disgusting. I don't like it. I don't like it. Snacks? Yeah, bring snacks, but not like a hot entree. Gross.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

What about you? Do you have any questions?

SPEAKER_01 27:00

Oh, well, let's do the shoes question. What is appropriate? What is appropriate footwear?

SPEAKER_00 27:07

Well, Tampa International, we have a rule. Thank you, Tampa International Airport, best airport in the United States.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

It is it is a great airport.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

Oh, crocs are not allowed. I just I love them for that. There are many reasons why I love them. But yeah, yeah. No, you're alluding to I have a problem with people being barefoot on an airplane.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

To me, that's like open-toed, open-toed, or just completely barefoot. They gotta wear shoes.

SPEAKER_00 27:36

No, they get in their seat and they kick their shoes off, and they are just they are comfortable.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

Barefoot on that aircraft that Shelly has seen three other flights prior to theirs.

SPEAKER_01 27:51

Yeah, I I can agree to that. I can agree to that. It's just it it yeah, that would that would bug me.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

I get look, I'm a Florida girl, people wear flip-flops. I don't, but I can understand that. Once they kick them off, I'm like, come on. I can't handle it.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

Yeah, I've um I for the most part wear closed-toed shoes when I'm traveling. Oh, appropriate attire when traveling. Oh goodness. Pajamas? No. Never. Never. Unless come on, I let the guy come on, folks. Just I mean, just you know, why pajamas? An officer toddler, got it. No problem. Yeah. Oh yeah, kids. I mean, whatever's easiest for the parents when they when they're dragging their kids around the airport. Goodness.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

The worst, and I just don't even is a wet bathing suit. Men and women alike. Yeah. Fun fact in Florida, people think they're gonna miss their flight coming from the beach, and they sure enough come straight from the beach wearing a wet bathing suit.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

No, no. That can't be comfortable. Your body can't feel comfortable.

SPEAKER_01 29:11

No way. Oh, middle seat and armchair. Yeah. Have some respect for the person sitting in the middle because that could be you one day. They should get both armrests.

SPEAKER_00 29:21

I agree with that. I agree.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

I think that's a very nice thing to do. And if somebody asks me, like, if I want to switch seats, but that switching the seat would put me in the middle, I typically say no. If it's like an hour flight and it's for you know a couple or something, and you know, it just depends on the situation. But I'm keeping my seat.

SPEAKER_00 29:45

Yeah, I'm very particular. I don't it would have to it would have to deal with a child, it would have to be something to that extent. Yeah, but yeah, yeah, I'm keeping my seat.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

Um, what about clapping at the end of the flight?

SPEAKER_00 30:03

Oh gosh. Look, I'm happy for the people who feel the need to clap, and it's cute when the kids do it. That's awesome. I will enjoy the joy that they get from it, but I won't be participating. Are you a clapper?

SPEAKER_01 30:18

No, I will I will when other people will. I won't start the clapping, I won't initiate it. But if other people are clapping and I hear it, then yeah, I'll join in clapping. Air travel is really cool still to me.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

It is very cool.

SPEAKER_01 30:36

So I think for people that don't travel often, especially when they're going to a vacation spot, you know, they tend to be the ones that like clap, you know. So it's pretty cool to see. All right, there you go, listeners. We gave some of our travel etiquette rules, and I'm sure you have some too. We'll post something on Facebook and you can chime in and add some of your etiquette or your travel pet peeves. All right, let's get back on the trail. So let's rewind the three reasons team stays stuck in a problem, discussion feels like progress. Nobody owns the next step, and the energy stays in the problem. How do we solve this? What kind of tools can we use? Tool number one, we're gonna give you three. Tool number one, pretty simple when we explain it. You're gonna ask the redirect question. Somebody's got to do this in that room, somebody's got to do it, and hopefully it's the leader in that room. So that redirect question can be a simple question like, what is the next move? That question, or or even like what next? Imagine asking that question in the middle of a 30-minute discussion about the problem, and you're sick of hearing about the problem, and you beat it to death, and now you're like, okay, somebody's got to ask this. We got to move forward here, we got to turn the corner. So you ask, what is the next move? That question will change the room. It's gonna surprise the people in the room, but then it's gonna change the room.

SPEAKER_00 32:13

Well, like you said, it's gonna engage the prefrontal cortex, they're gonna start problem solving, and and it's not completing the problem in one day, it's sitting toward that resolution.

SPEAKER_01 32:25

Yeah, exactly. You're not gonna solve it. What this is gonna do is redirect that energy because that energy was all about complaining or negativity and finding fault. When now you're redirecting the energy to problem solving. So it tells the room we're not gonna live in the complaint, we're gonna decide what happens next, what we have control over. Sometimes it's something small and that's okay. Small movements still matter. Could be just a small decision, it could be a follow-up email, could be another meeting set up to start talking about the action steps. That's fine. Small moves create momentum.

SPEAKER_00 33:06

Okay, so Roy's redirect question becomes if you care this much, why are you still standing on the sidelines? And that question forces Roy toward contribution, mentorship, emotional participation, and leadership. So it really, it was one of those moments where he had to lean in and become the solution or get out of the way.

SPEAKER_01 33:30

Yeah, it's it's another famous quote, the Teddy Roosevelt quote, get in the arena. Or probably one of my favorite songs of all time is Garth Brooks Standing Outside the Fire. You're not solving anything when you're standing on the sidelines or standing outside the fire or standing outside the arena. You're not doing anything. You continue to be critical of those in the arena, in the fire, uh on the field. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 33:54

But is the thing that you really dislike? Is the Monday quarterback?

SPEAKER_01 33:58

The Monday morning quarterback. No, I am that quarterback. I am that money. Oh my god, don't look all these rules go out the window when the Bills play. I will sit in that problem all season long. Oh, goodness.

SPEAKER_00 34:15

Yes, she will. I attest.

SPEAKER_01 34:17

But they're all great quotes. I mean, we tend to criticize those that are doing very hard things and they're that are getting in the arena. Those things may not be hard for others, but they're hard for them because we've all had different journeys. I love, yeah, I love that that quote by Roy. This connects to the researchers we said earlier, the Amma Bealen Kramer's progress principle. Small wins matter. Also aligns with Google Aristotle, high-performing teams. I mean, all you know, five dysfunctions of the team, the inverse of that. People want to know that the work that they're doing matters, and that they're doing good work. And to determine that and to share that with them, to tell them that they must know that there is progress being made. That's that natural dopamine kick that they're gonna get is wow, we're we're making improvements, we're making steps toward our goals. So we didn't say this earlier. Uh, I meant to was that you can apply this in your personal life too, that we know the tools to solve problems. You know, they're all out there. You can use for your company the eight-step problem solving model, CPI, all those, those exist for a reason. Use them. You may not use all eight steps, but just take out the ones you want. When you apply this to your personal life, we know what we need to do to be healthy, don't we? Sure do. We need to exercise, we need to eat right, you know, like we need a proper amount of sleep. All the answers are out there to lower stress, well versed, to lower stress, we should meditate. I mean, this is it's all the answer, all the answers are out there. It's us being intentional with what we're doing, and all of that requires intention, not autopilot.

SPEAKER_00 36:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 36:17

All right, so that was ask the redirect questions, and that will change the room. So start there. Another tool is assign ownership. So if we say one of the reasons why teams stay stuck is nobody takes ownership, nobody owns the problem, then the tool is assign ownership. If you're the leader in that room, you turn that corner, you say, what are we going to do about this? What next? What's next? What is the next move? And who owns it? What's going to be the timeline? What is our end result? What does done look like? And when are we checking back in? You initiate those conversations. This is where teams are going to move from uncertainty to clear accountability. Another factor of high-performing teams is accountability. And ownership is not punishment, it's direction. Yeah, yeah, people want it. People need direction. They don't people don't want to live or work in ambiguity or uncertainty. It's out there in the world. Don't give them that at work. They don't want it at home. So ownership is actually a good thing. It's kind, it protects the team from confusion, it protects the mission from drift, and it protects from assuming somebody else is doing something. Don't assume that when you walk away, that somebody else is going to take ownership. It needs to be established right then and there. What did Roy do here for assignment?

SPEAKER_00 37:53

Once Roy owns leadership, emotionally the locker room stabilizes. His ownership looks like mentoring, coaching, emotional honesty, and participating instead of criticizing. You know, I I love the angry outbursts, but I think I love more watching him evolve.

unknown 38:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:13

So then he stops. He stops, he pauses, and he's like, Yeah, that's the old guy. Let's do this differently.

SPEAKER_01 38:21

Yep. Yeah, he became the leader in that room that people looked up to, that the players looked up to him. Don't forget, our job as leaders is to develop other leaders.

SPEAKER_00 38:34

Yes, they need to do our job once we're gone.

SPEAKER_01 38:36

Yeah, our responsibility as a leader is to develop other leaders, is to build others, to mentor them. So when you're the when you're the leader in that room that asks the redirect question and then assigns ownership and advances the team, you're modeling what right looks like. And people are gonna want to follow that, and then they're gonna want to be that. And that's what Roy displayed. All right, tool number three. Yes. Focus on control. Good old stoicism. Control what we can control. Every problem has two buckets. Bucket number one is what we cannot control, bucket number two is what we can control. Low-performing teams spend most of their time in that first bucket of what we cannot control. High performing teams will acknowledge it because that's how they need to work through the problem, but they don't stay there. They're going to move quickly to that second bucket. What can we influence? What can we adjust? What can we communicate? Who can help us? Are there any workarounds? That is where leadership lives, inside that space of influence. And again, I say it all the time: leadership isn't in its most simplest form is helping people and being able to influence people.

SPEAKER_00 40:03

So I found the quote: leadership lives inside the space of influence. And that's exactly what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 40:09

Yes. No, that what what we can, what we can't control, that all goes back to the stoic philosophy. Some things are within our control and some are not. Modern performance psychology echoes that same principle. Attention is a limited resource. When teams spend so much attention and energy on what they cannot influence, so that 45 minute meeting where they're walking away with no action, then they're they spent so much energy in that meeting, in that discussion. Then when they walk away, they have less energy for what's really important for the actions that they can take beyond that to work beyond that problem.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

You could see it when they walk out of a meeting with that. Like you know, you know if the productivity was positive or was the same thing as last time.

SPEAKER_01 41:05

Yep. So those are your three tools. Ask the redirect question. So it's what now? What are we going to do next? Assign ownership. Who's going to do what? When are we going to meet again? Gather some data. What are the steps that we're going to take? Make sure that ownership is assigned. Don't assume it. And then focus on control. Spend the energy on what you can control. What can we influence? What can we adjust? What can we communicate? What workarounds do we have? Okay, ask the redirect question, assign ownership and focus on control. Those are your three tools. And we're going to go ahead and close this out. So most teams aren't stuck because they do not understand the problem. They're stuck because they never can transition out of it. They stay in discussion instead of moving to action. They stay in agreement instead of creating ownership. They stay in frustration instead of redirecting energy. So the next time you are in that room, and you will be, pay attention to that moment. There's always a moment where the conversation can either circle or shift. A moment where people can keep naming the problem, or someone can ask, hey, what's the next move? A moment where someone can nod, or someone can say, Who owns this? That is all leadership. Not pretending things are easy, not forcing positivity, not ignoring the real barriers. Leadership is the ability to move people forward when the problem is already clear. Do not add to the noise. It's our responsibility as leaders to filter that noise and move the team forward. Move it, ask the question, create ownership, drive that next step, influence the next steps. Because understanding the problem matters, but moving through it is where real leadership begins. All right, thanks for joining us. See you next time on Trail Talks. If today's conversation resonated with you, you don't have to walk your journey alone. I offer emotional intelligence assessments with personalized coaching, one on one mindset coaching, and leadership development for teams and organizations. You can explore all of that at Kellymichelle Coaching.com, linked in the show notes. And I'll leave you with this awareness is powerful, but support is transformational.