Trail Talks

Our Top Laws of Growth, with Ericka Kelly

• Kelly • Season 1 • Episode 27

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What if the difference between where you are and where you want to be comes down to a few simple principles?

In this episode of Trail Talks, Kelly and Ericka dive into their favorite lessons from John Maxwell’s The 15 Invaluable Laws of Growth. Rather than covering all 15 laws, they each share the five that have had the biggest impact on their lives, leadership, and personal development journey. Maxwell’s framework emphasizes intentional growth through principles such as Environment, Reflection, Expansion, Contribution, Consistency, Pain, and Trade-Offs.  

You’ll hear:

  • Kelly’s Top 5 Laws of Growth and why they resonate with his journey
  • Ericka’s Top 5 Laws and the lessons she’s learned from applying them
  • How environment shapes success more than willpower
  • Why reflection is one of the most overlooked growth tools
  • The sacrifices required to reach your potential
  • The connection between personal growth and serving others
  • A fun 90s-themed “This or That” detour

Whether you’re a leader, coach, parent, or someone simply trying to become a better version of yourself, this episode will challenge you to think differently about growth—and remind you that growth doesn’t happen by accident. It happens on purpose.  

Trail Tip: Growth is not an event. It’s a daily choice


SPEAKER_01

Hey everyone, welcome back to Trail Talks, the podcast where we talk about growth, the messy, the beautiful, and everything in between. I'm your host, Kelly Kruger, founder of Kelly Michelle Coaching, where we focus on mindset, emotional intelligence, and leadership, all grounded in real life and real science. And joining me is my co-host and partner in growth, founder of Leading People LLC, Terrace Tennette, a leadership trainer and facilitator who brings insight, curiosity, and real-world perspective to every episode. So wherever you're listening from today, we're glad you're here and thank you for joining us on the trail. Hey everybody, welcome back to Trail Talks. And let's welcome back our good friend coming back high demand. You all love her, one of my favorite co-hosts and guests on the show. My mentor, my good friend and founder and owner of Erica Kelly Enterprises, my good friend Erica Kelly. Welcome back, Erica.

SPEAKER_00

Hi Kelly, how are you? So nice to see you. Oh my gosh. And be in front of your audience again.

SPEAKER_01

Everybody loved you. I think we need to do the live QA with Erica. We have so many questions about your life and your journey and everything that you've gone through. We could not answer them all. Tara would have her friends texting her. What about this? What about this? Yeah, they loved you.

SPEAKER_00

I think that I was, I think at the beginning of the conversation, I said, Can I be a little raw? And I think that I shared a little bit more about my emotions, me, what I went through with the two of you, more so than I have with anybody else.

SPEAKER_01

We appreciate that. And I was gonna say, I think we know that people appreciate real and raw. People appreciate vulnerability, they want to know that they're not in this alone. We are not perfect, and we all have our different journeys, and it's okay to talk about it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Two weeks ago or so, I had a chance to do an in-person semi-keynote presentation to close to 700 women veterans. Or the whole conference was 100 plus, and I was the in-person for the crowd in San Diego. And I just told my story from an emotional intelligence perspective. And women, I have never, you and I in the military, and we know there's women in the military, but I have never experienced 700 altogether. It was crazy. And uh, and then for the women to say exactly what you said, is like I didn't have a leader like that when I was young in the military. And the women, and this is what they said, the women in the military that were my supervisors were horrible leaders. And the only thing that I could think of is maybe they were not the best leaders because they needed to survive. We don't know their journey, but we know that they were, we know that they were before us. So what did they have to do to survive? In, and I'm not saying this as a bad thing, but in a because it's reality, in a male-dominated world, in order for them to be credible enough to become supervisors, and how that conditioning made them who they were to us or to them, to the ladies that I was talking to.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's right. And I think it it's about surviving too and not thriving. And sometimes women can maybe feel like they're in a competitive environment versus a collaborative environment, and we should be cheering each other on, but also think about right now versus 20 years ago, the accessibility to leadership tools. Like 20 years ago, we didn't know what emotional intelligence was. It was never talked about in any sort of school that we went to. We didn't have all these virtual webinars, and we didn't have any of that. It was we just tried to figure life out, and now we have access to all these different leadership teachers out there, which we're going to talk about one tonight. And there's just different ways of learning. And I think that helps too. It's yes, you need to go through the experiences and reflect on them and learn from them, but also be in the environment to do so and have access to it. Podcast podcasts were a thing 20 years ago.

SPEAKER_00

No, I agree with the tools. I also agree with us, if I can just say as women, looking at our confidence, looking at our roles in different environments from a different perspective, a different light where we can make uh different decisions.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. I've been in positions where one of my positions, I was the only female in in the workplace, and it I felt like I was surviving for fears.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, sometimes I tell people that putting the uniform on was an amazing honor, but it was a battlefield. Every day I had to prove myself. I had to fight for my title. I had to fight for my position. I had to fight for what I was trying to convey to people. And again, not comparing, it's just how it was, at least for me. But then I was I would look at my counterpart uh males, same position, same titles, same responsibilities, and they just had this, or at least it appeared to me, this easier way of making decisions, and for people just go, oh, the chief said, right? I've always felt and it could be just in my brain, but I always felt resistance. Not in all situations, but I felt resistance where I was always proving that I was not as dumb as maybe they thought I was. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It and it still exists. As much as I don't want to say it as much as I don't want to say it, we experience it, but we still see it today.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I think because I am confident in my ability and my values and my experiences, it it now bothers me less or affects me less than maybe it did several years ago or a few years ago.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, can I just tell you it still happens? Oh no, for sure. But can I tell you what one of your superpowers is? What? Just in case you don't know, but I'm sure but maybe your audience doesn't know. And that is that you are an incredible communicator with humor, and humor neutralizes your worst enemy. Yeah, so you definitely have that as your superpower.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I thank you, dad. I get that from my dad. I do. And growing up with brothers, and all we did was laugh and pick on each other. That's cool. All right. So hey, let's let's get right into it. So well, yeah. This is hey, this is an interview. What's going on? I love it. I love it. Today, Erica and I are going to talk about John Maxwell. So this is like an ode to John C. Maxwell. And anybody who listens to the show, really anybody that knows me has been through some of the classes or has heard me speak. I I just I can't get enough of John C. Maxwell. He's the best. And Erica and I are both certified through John Maxwell, certified speakers, trainers, coaches. And one of our favorite books, I would say one of our favorite books is which he has so many, the 15 laws of invaluable growth. And what we're going to do here in the next half hour is really take the greatest hits, our greatest hits from the laws of growth, our favorite laws that really resonate with us in our journey, especially where we are today, and just kind of talk about those different laws, why they're our favorite, why they resonate, and then and then we're gonna have a fun detour. And we're gonna we're I love doing the quick fire, the rapid fire questions with Erica. So we're gonna talk about the nine. Oh gosh, I'm so nervous. No, it's all good stuff. It's all good stuff. Okay. I'm right. So we're not gonna go through all 15 laws, but we have our notes, we have our books. It's just this is I call all of his books leadership gold. He does have a book Leadership Gold, but man, this is one of my favorites. I always pick it up, I always go back to it. So, Erica, you start. What is one of the laws that you would like to talk about?

SPEAKER_00

And it's interesting enough that intentionality, the law of intentionality. By the way, this is the first book when I got certified by Maxwell that I started doing master classes on, masterminds on. And at the command, I used to do lunch and learns with anybody that was around the command, and we would go through this book every single chance we could get. So, why intentionality? Intentionality because I think I was drifting, existing, surviving, but not living. And not until I fully understood that we have to be intentional on our personal growth, our personal development, that things not started changing for me. I just thought things will just happen. Things will happen, but we will drift with those things unless we have intentionality. So that's why it's one of my favorites.

SPEAKER_01

What was the moment that it was a light bulb? I want to grow. And we could say that I want to grow. Everybody would say, I want to grow, or I'm growing. And I used to do that. I used to say, I'm doing the work. And somebody asked me one time, what is the work? And I couldn't answer them. You know how we always say we got to work on ourselves, we got to work on this. And we believe it. We believe when people say that, but it's no, explain what that work is. What does it look like? What was that light bulb moment for you when you were like, you know what? I want to be more intentional with my growth.

SPEAKER_00

Again, different moments in different places in life is where you're like, I'm drifting, let me grow. I'm drifting, let me change. But if I go back to the first, it was when I came to the United States. Yeah, I was angry and I was like, what is this world that doesn't welcome me? Right. And then something, I don't know how 12-year-old can do this, but I can I'm sharing it with you. I said, I need to do two things, and I think I shared it last time. Learn the language and go to school. Learn the language, go to school. And that were my two things of intentionality that I think saved me.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Because then there was intentionality in the military, intentionality of as a woman, so different faces. But the first one was 100% when I was 12 years old.

SPEAKER_01

And we now know, you and I now know that we can't just say we want to do something, we want to do the work without actually having a plan. Or we're gonna do autopilot and we're just gonna keep going. But if we if we actually don't develop the plan, then we're gonna go back to complacency and autopilot.

SPEAKER_00

Correct. And it's sadly to say it's that autopilot is we just letting it life happen. And when it happens, because we don't have a plan, we're not taking a step forward action, we're not taking action, right? Then we start drifting, and drift sometimes. This is from another of my mentors, Napoleon Hill. But once we start drifting, sometimes we don't even feel it, we just start drifting, and one day we blink and we say, How in the heck did I just get here? And then we need to be very intentional at either putting it on reverse, switching, changing, getting rid of not good company, whatever it takes, but it's our choice to make that plan and to take action. Because if we don't, life doesn't care.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So for the listeners, it's one thing to want to grow and to say that you're gonna grow, but it's another thing to actually have a plan and follow it through. And part of that plan, so I'll switch to one of my top laws, one of my what's your what's your favorite? And we had one or two episodes totally dedicated to the law of the environment, which is everything you just talked about, because in order to have the plan and execute the plan, it starts with the environment. And there's a quote from the book, I think it's from the book here. Yeah, one of John Maxwell's quotes is the two greatest influences on your growth are the people you spend time with and the books you read. So I I remember when I started changing my environment and it was 2020. It was it was transitioning, I think, from the headquarters job, AGR full-time job to a reserve. And I had realized I was not showing up in the manner I wanted to. I let a lot of things live rent-free in my head, and I gave my control to a lot of people in a lot of situations. And I was driving, and it might have been it might have been driving down to Homestead because I had just gotten assigned here, and I heard Mel Robbins. I don't even know what I was Googling or searching for on YouTube, but it was Mel Robbins talking about the amygdala and uh reticular activating system. It was like all this neuroscience stuff, and I was like, wow, this is really interesting. And then I started searching for podcasts, and I came across Jim Quick, brain coach. He's amazing, still listen to almost every episode. And that is when my environment toward growth started changing. And it was let me surround myself with things, let me listen, let me take in things because garbage in, garbage out, and and let me read about it, but also apply it. And since then, it's just it's never left. Yeah. That and I love that quote because it is the the people you are the most 10, the 10 most important people in your life that you surround, you are then. You are going to gain their habits, however, whatever they value, you will value, you will be like them. And then, of course, taking in growth, education, podcasts, reading, courses. Once in a while, I will indulge in TikTok and different things. I have to get my scrolling in, but I also understand that how it can affect you in your environment. I find that when I'm on Twitter for so long and following news, I go down a hole.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, because so negative, so negative. Yeah, but you're 100% right. If we, and this is where hard work takes place, yep, because if we notice our environment, right, if we notice what we're noticing, and we realize that the environment, the people are thinking, is taking us absolutely the wrong way. Yep. Once we know that, once we know that, then I'm sorry to say, but then it's a very much a choice of staying there. I'm not saying that some situations are not difficult because you and I have gone through some difficult things. But what I'm saying is that once there is awareness, then we can't look back. Yeah, we can't we can't say uh I just didn't know. We can't say that anymore. We can say yes, and I chose to move away from it, I chose to change, or I we have tons of options. And one option, sadly, is we stay there and then we don't grow, and then time goes by, and then we look back and you go, uh two years, five years have and I'm still in the same spot.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, yeah, we uh yeah, we know that uh if something is trending in a negative direction, it's gonna continue to trend in the negative direction unless there is something significant that happens. Intention. Yes, unless there is an intentional change or plan that takes place, and sometimes it's just that's not hope.

SPEAKER_00

No, not hope. Hope is very powerful because hope gives you fuel and it lets you know that whatever you're looking for is on the other side. You might not see the other side, but hope gives you that thought. But if you are not walking towards that, if you're not if you're not going through the terror barrier of breaking through your comfort zone, then your fears are fears. Yeah, I'm talking like them. No, it's us too, right? Our fears will pull us into the middle of that comfort zone and say, stay here, know your place.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, give me give me another one of your laws, another one of your grades.

SPEAKER_00

I think that for me, law number five in the book is the law of consistency. And the law of consistency, at least the way that I read the chapter, the the way that I teach it in my classes, is of having the discipline to take one step forward towards your dream. So I usually I usually ask myself, but also ask my clients, what would you love? What would you love? And I would love this house, but I don't have the I'm not talking about money, I'm not talking about what's what your present conditions are. What would you love? I would love this. Fantastic. Fantastic. Now that you know what you would love, what you want, then do you know that there is a price to pay for what you want. Sometimes we call it work, sometimes we call it sacrifice, sometimes we call it discipline, right? Changing habits, whatever it is, but there is a gap that we need a bridge that we need to or a gap where we need to build a bridge to get to the other side so we get what we love. So that's where the love consistency comes in. So let me read a quote from the book. It says, small disciplines repeated with consistency every day lead to great achievements gained slowly over time. Yeah. So consistency is I'm very patient. I'm like, sometimes life hits me, punches me in the gut, and I sometimes I land on my face, and I'm like, I get up and I'm like, I'm just gonna take one step forward. So consistency has been my friend, in which I don't need to have the reward right now. I just need to know, and John Maxwell, I'm sure other mentors say this. John Maxwell says, if be consistent in if you're gonna if you're gonna bring a tree down, right, go out every day and go out and hit that tree on the same spot five times a day, instead of being consistent and hitting the tree five times, but everywhere, right? So be consistent in the path of your journey, and you hit it, and you hit it, and you hit it, and you're like, celebrate, awesome. I hit it five times, and guess what? It's gonna come down, it's going to come down. Why? Because we're being consistent. Yeah, I like that.

SPEAKER_01

I like that example. Yeah, I think sometimes we think about consistency like doing the same thing at the same time and consistent, but I've always explained it in a way where it's your actions align with your words, your actions align align with your wants. And even with this podcast, it's I went a couple of weeks without recording. And to me, consist consistency is. Building the plan and following through with the plan. It's yeah, I may miss a week, but I'm gonna get right back on there and just it's taking those small steps toward something bigger, toward your goal.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, and absolutely, because sometimes people say, I missed a week. Yeah. Boo, I'm not gonna do it again. Because they missed that week instead of just picking it up, right? It's almost like being on a diet and and you miss you missed a good healthy day, and you I don't know, you have a in and out in California, and and then you go, oh, okay, I broke the diet, and then you have another healthy day just because of that one single event. So consistency definitely helps you, okay, okay, recover, get back on the path, and keep going.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, do what you're gonna say, or do what you say, what you're gonna do, what you wanna say, and it may not be perfect, and that's okay. Just do, just do it.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, it doesn't have to be perfect, yeah. Like you and I sometimes we talk about personality styles, and there are some of us that are perfectionist, and we want that 100 before we move forward, before we make a decision, and I guess that's a way of being consistent, but it's not a healthy way of being consistent.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's not, yeah. I think movement forward, however big a move that is, is movement.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Because it is so easy to go backwards or to be on autopilot and not do anything.

SPEAKER_00

What about you? What's your next one?

SPEAKER_01

My next one is the law of expansion. Growth always increases your capacity. And it you know what this reminds me of though? It resilience. It's the more you do, the more experiences you go through, especially when you do hard things, when you do things that you think are really bigger than you. And I feel like for me, every assignment I've applied for, every job I've applied for, even doing this podcast. I started this podcast because for me, it was a hard thing to do. I'm like, I really want to do something hard. Let me get a microphone and let me just start talking because talking is hard for you. Speaking in front of 700 women, we've don't we've both done keynote speeches and if with hundreds of people, and we always think beforehand, I'm like, I can't believe I'm doing this. First of all, I can't believe they asked me. And second, I can't believe I'm about to do something this big. Yeah. And but we never say no, we will always take on a challenge. And the more you do those big things and hard things and take yourself out of the that comfort zone, you have more capacity for other things to influence, to lead, to learn, it's to handle stressful situations. And to me, that's all resilience. It's being able to go through those experiences much easier now because of what we've been through and what we've done.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and it's it's almost a way of taking risk, yeah. Educated risk, mission risk, if you want to call it that. However, every single environment that we walk in gives us a different perspective. Yeah. And if we don't take those risks, if we don't apply, if we don't say, why not me? What happens is again, we stay in what is very comfortable, what we know very well, and we stop growing. And the sad thing is it's not that we stop growing and we stay there. People in the self-growth industry, we are people in the self-growth industry. If we if you stop growing, you stop dying, you start dying. Because once you get a different perspective, then you use the word influence, then you're then you become an influencer, not social media influencer, but you become an influencer in leadership because you can navigate from different perspectives, different perspectives, which I think is pretty amazing. Absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, what's number three?

SPEAKER_00

For me, okay, ready for this one? Because, like, why would I pick this law? But I think it just goes with my life, it goes with it's one of my favorites, too. Oh my gosh, but it's the law of pain, and we avoid pain, we want to avoid pain. As a matter of fact, why do we decide not to do things? And it's because we don't want to experience the pain that we went through before, so we already know how it feels, and we're like, I'm not going to go through that again. However, my dear friend Kelly, pain is that friction, uh, that friction that makes us stronger. Is that break sometimes? Like break, right? Is that grooming of ourselves, is that renewing of ourselves? Where when we are going through it, is a storm, it's a nightmare, it hurts. I'm not telling you that it doesn't. The law of pain hurts. But how many times in the chapter talks about this? How many times have we not gone through that painful moment, time, season, but now we're a little bit removed from that, and now we can look back and you can say that that situation made me so much stronger because, and we get to a point. I know I have where I say, I'm glad. Yeah, can you believe it? I'm glad that it happened so I could do this and this now. So crazy.

SPEAKER_01

Fear will never move us forward, and pain, when you think about it, what is it? It's all up here, it's all that discomfort.

SPEAKER_00

It is very discomfort. It's a but fear, if we don't know how to control it, if we don't fully understand what it is, it can paralyze us. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're like, I don't want to go through that pain again. Yeah, then we avoid what could be an amazing opportunity.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. Here it says good management of bad experiences. That's powerful. Pain is inevitable, growth is optional. Pain is gonna happen. None of us will ever escape bad experiences. It they're going to happen. None of us can escape pain and bad experiences. It's gonna happen. It's what we do with it.

SPEAKER_00

But have you not met individuals that avoid oh yeah, that do whatever it takes not to have a very necessary conversation. A conversation, that's a conversation, and they avoid it. And why? Because discomfort the fear of going through the discomfort of let's say me challenging you in a way, yeah, correcting you in a way, letting you know how you make me feel in a way, we avoid avoided.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, my ego may be in question with this conversation.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, yes. So, no, I I respect the law of the pain, and when I am going through a painful situation now, right? If you would have asked me years ago, maybe not, but right now, when the law of the pain is part of my life, I surrender to it. Yeah, I just let it I just let it teach me, right? I just let it teach me, and I'm uh going back to the other law of intentionality, I'm very intentional at still, no matter how painful it is, to showcase grace, to showcase forgiveness, and to understand that it's temporary.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it is, it's it is temporary. Yes. So, and for you, okay. My next one. Well, it is exactly why we are doing this and what we do, our purpose really, it's the law of contribution. Oh, it's it's the culmination of everything that we've learned, everything that's really taught us through our growth journey, and it's giving back, it's doing this, it's developing other leaders. I always tell other leaders one of our main responsibilities as a leader, and we talked about it, I think, two episodes ago, is to develop other leaders. That's it. Give back, give back just like others gave to you. Yeah, the goal of growth is not self-improvement for its own sake, it's to become someone who can add greater value to other people. And I believe John Maxwell always says that his number one goal is to add value to people. Yes, period, yeah, period.

SPEAKER_00

That's the that's pretty incredible. I in my life journey, I have thought, I have looked. Why do I exist? Yeah, why do I breathe? What what is this, right? What is this? And I have come up with the conclusion, and I think it fits nicely with a law of contribution, and that is that my purpose is to make others successful. Yeah, so I don't need to be the first one to get to the top of the hill. I don't, I really don't. I'll get to the top, I but I don't have to be the first one. If you have the capability, you have the capacity, you have the intellect, you have everything that that makes you run faster, be a better visionary than I am right now, then I'm not going to stop you. Yeah, and some leaders that are very immature, they go, No, I'm ahead of you, so wait, hate and press down on people. And just like you, I would always tell this to anyone that wanted to hear me if you have a chance of just doing this to people, lifting them up for them to bypass, oh my gosh, for them to bypass you, and for you to celebrate their success. I preach that I can't tell you, and I'm preaching it now, right? And I continue to preach it, but that hurts some people. Oh, yeah. Because I don't understand it. I hope that you understand what I'm saying, but I hope the audience really hears our hear our heart, please.

SPEAKER_01

I think we've always looked at ourselves as the no matter what position we hold or rank that we have, that we are the bottom of the period pyramid serving everybody above us. It's I love all of my greatest moments in my career and in leadership positions, are always witnessing team accomplishments is once. The team that's the money, that's the jackpot. But another is when somebody they don't understand that or see the potential that they have, and you inspire that. Because people don't realize that they have the potential, we don't know what our upper limit is. And you and I, when we have conversations with people, it's sometimes you see that inspiration coming through them, and it's like a light bulb. It's oh, that's why we do what we do. When we can inspire people to be better, and when they start seeing the potential that they have that maybe they didn't see before.

SPEAKER_00

No, it's incredible because in my growth, and I think I'm very open to say that I have been broken multiple times, and I needed to borrow someone's faith in me. Someone saw potential in me that I didn't see, and I had to borrow that faith of someone like you saying, Erica, I see something in you. And for me to say, for me to get out of where I'm at, I need to believe Kelly. I need to just believe that what she sees is bigger than what I see. And yesterday, I also with the John Maxwell team, with the John Maxwell team, I am uh I am a coach that coaches, yeah. And I was talking to one of the coaches, Maxwell coaches, just like us, and he he could feel his potential, he could feel his potential inside of him. But he was arguing what we do, we what we are just talking about. Stay here. This is safe, this is what you know. People are not gonna criticize you here. Stay here. And exactly what you and I are saying right now. I said to his name is Matthew, I go, Matthew, borrow the faith of all of us in this room that see your potential. Yeah, and you you could have just seen his energy, his body language, everything changed, his face changing. He's I will, I am gonna borrow, I am gonna borrow your faith. And it was amazing. So, and the love contribution, Kelly, for me is making others successful, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And even with the podcast and the things we talk about, I people have reached out saying how it has helped their relationships or even their own growth. And my buddy Erica, I'll give a shout out to her, another buddy Erica, that just I think it was a school or certification program she just finished when and she started it when she started listening to the podcast. It's those little things that are just huge moments.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, that's what it's about.

SPEAKER_00

That's amazing. And I think those things are what, at least for you and I, feeds our soul. Yeah. Yeah. So it's those little sparks, those little moments in life that again, sometimes we are consistent in what we're doing, and then and then we get a gift, a little spark of it's working. It is. This is this is your life purpose outside of a title, outside of a position, outside of an assignment.

SPEAKER_01

Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_00

All right, let's let's go to your fourth one. My fourth one is the law of the rubber band. Ah, and I I chose that because at the beginning, when I first was studying the book, I really didn't understand it. So it took me a little while to understand what the law of the rubber band meant and what John Maxwell was trying to teach us, and then I finally got it. And the law of the rubber band is not about us stretching to the point of burnout, about us breaking. The law of the rubber band, I think goes with all the laws that we've been talking about, that's just everything. The law of the rubber band is being able to stretch ourselves with enough t not to break, but enough tension to grow, enough tension to see the world from a different light, and enough tension to understand different perspectives, and not enough tension to be in a different position, enough tension to be a better leader, to be a better parent, to be a better sister, a better daughter. Yeah. So the love, the rubber band for me is extremely powerful because it goes again to what we were saying, right? Break through that terror barrier of your comfort zone, stretch, build that tension until that tension becomes your norm, and then it's time to stretch again for something else that's even better, brighter.

SPEAKER_01

When do you think what is too comfortable for you? When do you feel like, all right, time to stretch? What happens?

SPEAKER_00

What happens is I start thinking, so I'll share this very personal, but my my clock of when I start feeling like I need to do something else. Yeah, and we all know that. That's why when retirement or this, it's like you'll know because everything inside you goes, it's time to go someplace else. So for me, it's three at the most five years. So I usually use the first year to stretch that rubber band, to build that tension, to grow, to learn, and be very uncomfortable. And then the second year is to do it, to be proficient at what you're doing. Yeah. And then the third year and beyond is about being, I don't want to say the master, but mastering that skill set and now then putting someone else in in that position in order for them to start growing. So it's almost like on the third year, I start looking at who wants to be mentored in order for them to compete for my replacement.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Not because I'm gonna say, Kelly, can I mentor you so you can be next? Negative. Is can or would you take my mentorship because I see your potential and you could be competitive for this or that position. So the first three years is me getting good. And then if I have the opportunity to be in this world, same world for two more years, it's more about making sure that it's not one and done, that there is a team of or a pool, I should say, of knowledge and experience and capabilities after me. Yeah. What about you? For the rubber band? Yeah. Or what I just said, um, because my window is three to five.

SPEAKER_01

I you know how I roll. I gotta switch things up every two to three years. I need to every two to three years and already looking at three years when I retire. But so working toward that. But I even for me, it's shorter stints when I think that I get too comfortable when I haven't done an episode or I haven't put on gym quick or haven't gotten into the podcast because I'm listening to news podcasts and different things. It's I think it's those when I feel like, okay, I need to stretch here, I need to do something very hard. But long term, yes, two to three years, and looking at three years from now, what I want to do. But for me, it's I don't know. I just if I don't record an episode in two or three weeks, I feel it. Because this is very hard for me to do. It's I'm sweating now. You can see I'm sweating. Uh just talking for me as well. But it's because hey, I need to do this because this is a hard thing. I don't know. We like pain.

SPEAKER_00

But we're talking about growth and we're talking about becoming better people, yeah. And we're talking about if we become better, then there's a really good chance that we can be better to others.

SPEAKER_04

Yep.

SPEAKER_00

And you're a mom, I'm a mom. Then the more we evolve as humans, then I think the better role model, the better samples we yes to others. But man, for you're a boy mom, I'm a boy mom for our sons. Who are we as a woman, as a role model for them in their lives? So, but let me read this on the law of the rubber band, which it uh it's kind of painful, but sometimes it's true. And this is Abraham Maslow, right? And I think everyone knows the pyramid, the Maslow pyramid.

SPEAKER_04

Yep.

SPEAKER_00

This is what he says about the, or at least it's related to the law of the rubber band. It says if you plan on being anything less than you are capable of being, that you're planning on being less than you're capable of being, you will probably. Be unhappy all the days of your life. I believe that. I believe that too. So it it's more of if you just plan on being less than you are capable of being. If you plan on being less than what you were created for, you're gonna be miserable. And we don't even know what we're capable of. Because it's infinite. Yeah. Yes. That's why there's no finish line.

SPEAKER_01

Look, we're gonna find out. I'm gonna find out. All right. My next one is probably one of my favorites because I'm an introvert. The law of reflection. An introvert? I don't know. I I am, I am, yeah. This one is probably one of the most important to me because I didn't really do it for so long. It was just always go and being very reactive. And when I started learning this and my environment became this, and I decided to take a knee, what, two years ago? I think it was two years ago. And that knee, taking that knee was like a three-month reflection. It was, hey, I don't want to drink anymore. I want to be a better person. I want to be a better partner. I want to be a better mom. I want to be a better leader, everything. And in order to do that, I need to take focused time to do it. And I need to reflect on my whole entire life, which was the scariest thing I did because I never wanted to sit with myself. I never I did a lot of reflection back then, but that reflection was negative. It was, why did you do this? You didn't it it you didn't sound right, you didn't act right, blah, blah. And it was we tend to reflect sometimes it's negative, and we didn't and we don't give ourselves grace. And for many years, I didn't give myself grace. And until I actually took the time to reflect, it it was a game changer for me in all areas of my life. But now it's what I love to do. And when I reflect now, it's not why didn't you do this the right way? It's not that negative self-talk. It's what am I learning from this? And some of the most transformational moments in my life have come from tough experiences, but I wouldn't be able to do it. I wouldn't be who I am right now if I didn't take the time to reflect on those and learn from those experiences. Yeah, I oftentimes we in the military we do after-action reports. We need to do after-action reports on ourselves. Yes. What did I learn from this experience? What could I have done better? And that could just be I drive a lot. So for my reflection time, that's probably what I'm driving. I tend to be in my head a lot. That's just like my personality. So it's easier for me to reflect, but reflection makes us better people and better leaders. But it's also what is that reflection? It's the self-awareness piece, it's the understanding the why, and then growing from it, how we're going to move forward.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I'm listening to you, and I hear you. For years, I didn't want to reflect on me. I it was too dark, it was too painful. So it was so much easier to work 15-20 hour days. It was so much easier to not take time off. Or if I took time off, I would put myself in very chaotic, chaotic situations. So I wouldn't rest, I wouldn't allow myself to think, I wouldn't allow myself to reflect. And so I hope everyone that watches this realizes what a powerful message, Kelly, you just shared. Because unless we are willing to go to that dark place, that uncomfortable place, to really realize that the things we're saying to ourselves we wouldn't allow our worst enemy to say to ourselves. But we're saying it to us.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, I think that also talking about what changed. I think the moment that I was able to learn how to reflect on my life journey, who I was, what who I want to be, then it was a point of me smiling, celebrating. Celebrate, what is that? Celebrate that I am who I am. Celebrate that I'm being consistent. Celebrate that I can see the blue sky. That I can hear, that just we are we're so blessed, right? And but that needs reflection.

SPEAKER_01

So yeah, yeah, it and it's why we love coaching because coaching is reflection, it's having the space and the time, the grace to understand your actions and your thoughts and your feelings. That's all reflection. But I have this article I had just pulled up. It's through Harvard Business School Leadership and Management: the importance of reflective leadership in business. This was from Esther Hahn in in 2023. And it's a great article, but I want to get to some of the statistics in here. Reflective leadership involves self-awareness, introspection, continuous learning, and growth to make better decisions. That is exactly why reflection is important for leaders because how are you going to make better decisions? How are you going to grow if you don't reflect, if you don't set that time aside? Reflective leadership is about helping others on your team or in your organizations. It's about helping them develop their own skills. But I want to get to so, according to recruitment services company Zipia, 79% of employees leave their companies because they don't feel appreciated by leaders. And upwards of 69% believe they'd work harder if they were recognized. In addition, only 33% report feeling engaged in the workplace. Companies also lack focus on leadership development. Zipia reports that 77% struggle to find and develop leaders, and only 5% implement leadership development at all levels.

SPEAKER_00

And something else too is all that. So leadership above on the top goes, everything's fine. Yep. And they don't realize the gap of how much money we're gonna talk money, how much money they're losing, and how much disconnected they are with the people that they should be serving. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

Anyway, yeah, my fifth one is probably one of my favorite ones. All right, your fifth one. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, I picked chapter 13, and that is the law of modeling. Oh, yes. And it says it's hard to improve when you have no one but yourself to follow.

SPEAKER_03

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

So it is interesting how, or if can I use a military example that I lived when I was the command chief at the command? And that is that I would ask, and I don't know if I shared this with you before, but I would ask other chiefs to sit at my chair if I was not going to make the meeting. And I would have at times chiefs say no, thank you, because they felt forgive me for using this word, inept of being at the table. The fear factor was so high, and they would just say no. And I would remind them, Chief, you are you are a model, you are a role model to everybody else. If they see you, female, male, whoever, whatever body you carry in this life, if they see you, you automatically become a role model. So, again, this is another law that I needed to fully understand. And I think that without calling it the law of modeling, that throughout my life I have been able, I quit, I didn't have a name for it, but I have been able to hold on to someone that is a few steps from me, and I can say, Kelly, can I be in the same room with you? And you would say, Erica, there's no chairs at the table, and I would say, I allow me to take notes, allow me to be in the room, allow me to hear the conversation, allow me to be in the presence of other people that you get to be with. Allow me to just be in the room so I can learn. And I I did that without always did that. I'll do it for free. Just let me be there, okay. And so the law of modeling is super, super important to me. John Maxwell talks about proximity to the people that you want that you want to be like, yeah, and modeling that behavior until it becomes yours, until a habit that you're trying to change changes. So proximity in the law of modeling goes together with me. But what about that law for you?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, and I've always when I've read about this law, I've always looked at it like the law. Is there such a thing as the law of observation or something where maybe it is the modeling law where you need to have people that you observe because you want to model them? So for me, it's well, it's who do I listen to and who do I surround myself with? My family, one of the most important people in my life, but it's also who do I follow? You, Jim Quick, Simon Sinek, John Maxwell, uh Pat Linchone. I could name them all. And yeah, they're all famous and everything, but they're still people and leaders that I observe because I want to their books, their words.

SPEAKER_00

I one of my mentors is Napoleon Hill. And he's dead, ladies and gentlemen. However, his words have changed my life. Yeah, he will forever be my mentor.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So who's had the greatest impact on your growth journey?

SPEAKER_00

When it comes to the the rolling, um, I think that the first person that truly clarified it for me, I think I had used the law, and but I think that John Maxwell was the first because he was he in reality, the John Maxwell team was my first step out of uniform, thinking outside of the margins that the military gave us, thinking outside of what law enforcement gave me, which was also a government agency, right? John Maxwell was the first individual that I could hold on to. Like I go to his conferences just so I can see him, just so I can hear his voice live, right? And it's because he changed my life. He was the first mentor that I could truly hold on to that I can say I want to model, yeah, I want to model that behavior. Yeah. Same here.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's John Maxwell, yeah. So many out there, but it all goes back to who's the person that I on a Sunday morning I'm having coffee and I throw YouTube on the TV and I watch a John Maxwell special. I'm always taking something from a book or the YouTube episode or his podcast. It's I'm always taking something from it and learning it. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00

And I know that not everything is forever, so I want to take advantage of having my mentor me live. Nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

All right, so my last one is the law of trade-offs. Yeah, I know you have to give up to grow up, and somebody says, and I think it's in the book, you have to give up to grow up. Growth requires sacrifice, you can't have it all, so you gotta think about what you want, and you will have to give some things up. And giving things up is change, and when you lose something, when something changes, that means you're losing something and you grieve a little bit. For me, it was like so apparent. Alcohol is, of course, the big trade-off for me, and yes, it was it was temporary pain for something so much greater for freedom for for ultimate freedom. It could be time. It's oh man, I can't sit here and binge all these shows because I've got a plan and I have goals. Ego, there's no way you can be in this business and be an effective leader if you have an ego.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, a little bit of thick skin helps.

SPEAKER_01

You you look, you gotta be able to take it. Yeah, and comfort, you're giving up comfort. So it in the book, in that chapter of the law of trade-offs, let's see, changes personally to change your life, you need to change. Yep, everyone can change, that's true, and you will be rewarded when you change. But Victor Frankel has a quote in here when we are no longer able to change a situation, so we cannot change people or the situation or the circumstance, we are challenged to change ourselves, and that only requires a ch a trade-off.

SPEAKER_00

And Victor Frankel is also one of my mentors, yeah, yeah, she's incredible. So much loss, and still be able to look at humanity and say there is a space between what happens to us and how we respond.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

If we don't pay attention to that little space, and you said it, uh Kelly, you used to in the past react. And and when we react to things, we make mistakes. We do. If we respond, we're using that little gap that Frank Frank Victor Frankel talks about, which is we respond to the situation. That means that we thought about it and now we're making a decision on what we're going to do, what we're gonna say. But the law of trade-off is the reality check that we need to do where we want it all, but not always. The trade-off that uh I guess it's my reality. I was gonna say that hunts me the most, but it is what it is I in order for me to be a provider for my two sons as a single parent, is that I had two jobs, the military and law enforcement, both demanding of myself in different ways. So what was the trade-off? The trade-off, and you said it, the time with my sons, yeah, socializing with friends. Yeah, my son and I went to church this morning, right? And we go to church, and after the services, we just stay for about two to three minutes, and we walk to our car, right? And then but everybody stays, and they have coffee and donuts, and to me that's foreign. Well, what are they doing? And my son, because I looked at him like, why are they staying? Right? And my son's mom, they like each other. That's what and he goes, that's what normal people do. And then he goes, I don't think that I don't think that our family, and when he says family is just his brother, himself, and I, the three of us, I don't think we're that normal mom, right? I go, I guess so, right? Because I'm thinking, man, it would take so much energy to just stay there and chat, right? What's the purpose? But that's my trade-off, Kelly. The trade-off is that I did not really have a normal as a mom with my sons because I needed to be a provider and I needed to move forward with what I wanted to do in life.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, something else I had thought of as we both have been command chiefs, and there's trade-offs, and your that story about church and people staying after socialize, like that's one that's one part of the job I try to balance because we could be in an event and I'll see a bunch of people there, and I'm like, I haven't seen that person, I haven't seen that person. And and the event ends, and as like the commander is and you should walk out together and go back to the office, and I'm like staying back to socialize, and so is he. And then one of us usually is done and you're coming back, and I'm like, I'm so torn, but yes, I'm coming back because you you have to have trade-offs, you can't be in the connection gear all the time, you can't be in the admin gear all the time, you can't be in the social gear all the time. It's you have to know when to switch those gears, when to change those gears, because our jobs are very demanding. And another thing is the emotional part of it and the reaction part of it is as a command chief, we can't be too high or low in in these positions because they're so emotionally volatile. One second it's recognition, the next second it's a tragic story. It's something is happening, and it's so important to be steady. Yes, and I've already encountered that, like where it is Kelly, don't get too high, don't get too low. It's steady, know when to switch the gears and keep going.

SPEAKER_00

And along there, there's a lot of trade-offs, like a lot of trade-offs, and and some of those trade-offs sometimes include family members and friends.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, all right. Are you ready for a detour?

SPEAKER_00

Okay, I'm ready.

SPEAKER_01

Let's all right. Hey, it's one of that. I'm I'm scared. That was 15 laws, and just for the listeners, we just went to look at the book, look at the book. Yes, there you go. I did I took the cover off, but there it is. Oh, you're better than me. That's right. Okay, so for the listeners, the five laws we didn't go through. The law of awareness, you must know yourself to grow yourself, the law of the mirror, you must see value in yourself, add value to yourself, the law of design to maximize growth, develop strategies. So have a plan that kind of goes with intentionality, I think. The law of the ladder. That's a good one. Character growth determines the height of your personal growth. I think Vanessa and I are actually talking about that one in the next episode. The law of the ladder, the law of curiosity, growth is stimulated by asking why. So those are the five we didn't go through. All right, detour real quick before Jordan comes back out here. Let's talk about the 90s. That's fun.

SPEAKER_00

If I can remember the 90s, you can remember that you're you're making a huge assumption that my memory bank I hope you remember some of these.

SPEAKER_01

Did you have a television? I not growing up, but but yes, in the United States. Okay, we'll see if you remember these. We'll start with this or that. Oh, god. We'll ask you some trivia questions.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Friends or Seinfeld?

SPEAKER_00

Seinfeld.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Just because they were so Yeah, I know. How is that funny? But it is funny.

SPEAKER_01

You could still watch it. Today in instead of all these other shows that are around, I would still take Seinfeld. Yes. Friends was good too, though. Friends was sometimes like a soap opera. And I did you ever watch soap operas? I still do now. What did you watch? No, in Spanish. Okay. Okay. I was I was a big general hospital fan.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, me too, Laura and Luke.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my gosh. All right. Fresh Prince or Saved by the Bell. Oh French Prince, though.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah. Save by the Bell was my favorite every Saturday morning. The boy meets world or full house. Do you remember that?

SPEAKER_00

Yes. I would say full house because they I like the interaction between the brothers. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

They were all funny. Joey with his like character voices and with his band. Oh, I love Jesse. Yes. So cool. So cool. Family Matters or Home Improvement?

SPEAKER_00

Two good ones. I know. I'm going to say home improvement only because it showcased male energy in a really nice, funny way of acceptance. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I like that. Okay. I don't know what this one is. Power Rangers or Ninja Turtles?

SPEAKER_00

Power Rangers for sure. I even saw them in person.

SPEAKER_03

Oh my.

SPEAKER_00

Because they were filming here in Long Beach. So my little one that my my sons were crazy for Power Rangers. And because I watched that with them, then there we go. We gotta go watch them in person.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god. All right. So those were all TV. Okay. See what happened.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, I recognize them all. So not too bad, not too bad. You know what the shocking show was on TV for me when I came to the United States was the six million dollar man. Oh, do you remember that?

SPEAKER_01

No, no, I don't.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so that was in the 70s. But however, I used to watch it on and off in Guatemala, and they spoke Spanish. And then I come to the United States, and lo and behold, he's speaking English. And I'm like, what is this? Oh my god, how can this happen? And he asked him, and he has a different voice. What's going on here? Anyway, things we learn.

SPEAKER_01

All right, we're gonna switch to music 90s. Oh boy, okay. Music. I'm not good at music, but I'm these are easy. They're it's just this or that. It's just pick one actually boys or in sync. Both of them are like, I know we can't pick one in sync. Okay, okay, in sync. Brittany or Christina, Britney Spears or Christina Aguilera.

SPEAKER_00

I'm going to say Christina only because she was part of the voice. So I got to I got to know her. Well, you can know somebody had a better voice than Britney Spears. And Britney Spears has had a nap and down live.

SPEAKER_01

Oh sex. I hope she's okay. Yeah. I gotta look her up and see.

SPEAKER_00

I think that people took advantage of her. Yeah. And they continue to take advantage of her. So it's just horrible.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Spice girls or TLC? I spice girls. I think that they were a little bit more famous, so I'm aware of them. TLC, not so familiar with them. Don't go chasing water.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, yeah, that's the okay. But it's still, yeah. Spice girls. Spice bursts. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And I don't know why these are this or that. I don't know what made them come up with these two options. Garth Brooks or Shania Twain.

SPEAKER_00

Garth Brooks.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it totally. He's a legend. Oh my god. Shania for the short time she was very popular, had great songs, but Garth Brooks is.

SPEAKER_00

I love her. I really love her, but Garth Brooks is like you said, he's a legend. Yeah. Nirvana or Pearl Jam.

SPEAKER_03

Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_01

Do you remember Nirvana? Yes. Did you ever watch the documentary?

SPEAKER_00

So I'm gonna say Nirvana just because it's so powerful. But the other one is yeah, he was so talented, he was incredible.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. All right, well, let's move on to and I don't know this other music one, Olannis Morissette. She was awesome, or Sarah McLaughlin. Two very different artists, so I don't know why Chat GPT gave me these two options, but oh Janice was awesome.

SPEAKER_00

I don't have an option because I don't know them enough to to pick anybody.

SPEAKER_01

All right, movies. So some of the best movies here from the 90s.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, from the 90s, okay, because I don't go to the movies, so maybe the 90s you'll know these, these are very popular.

SPEAKER_01

Titanic or forest gump? Forest Gump.

SPEAKER_00

I know. Titanic, really good, powerful. But Forest Gump is I would pick Forest Gump now.

SPEAKER_01

You would? I will tell you, Titanic was one of my favorite movies, but I think as I've gotten older, I'm I get irritated about the ending.

SPEAKER_00

Me too. Titanic look titanic is amazing. It's amazing, but Forest Gump for me showcases the innocence that we all hold at one point in time in our lives, and that is so precious that we just had a we just gotta save it somewhere.

SPEAKER_01

Yep, yeah, that's a good one. Jurassic Park or Independence Day?

SPEAKER_00

I am going to say Jurassic Park because anything that's government-ish or this or that is like I watch it, but it's not so two fantasies. I choose it, dinosaurs.

SPEAKER_01

Me too. I'll choose dinosaurs every single day. Give me a good dinosaur movie, a shark movie, a snake movie. I'll take it. Yes, it is Home Alone or the Sandlot. Or which one?

SPEAKER_00

The Sandlot. Sandlot. Okay, I know Home Alone, and I watched that multiple times.

SPEAKER_01

It's the movie about baseball, like little kids playing baseball, Sandlot. Okay. So I'm gonna say Home Alone. I would say Home Alone anyway. Toy Story or The Lion King? Toy Story. These are funny. Dumb and Dumber or Tommy Boy.

SPEAKER_00

I'm gonna say Dumb and Dumber. Me too. Because it's so dumb. It's so dumb. Oh my god. And then they came out with the dumb and dumb earth. And it was it's it's like those are classics.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, they are. There's hilarious. All right, last one from the 90s. So this one's two teeny bopper movies. Clueless or 10 things I hate about you. I'm gonna say clueless. Yeah. The other one was just a little too heavy. Yeah. Clueless was fine. Still fine. All right. 90s snacks. Okay. Food is good. Donkeroos or Gushers. Don't know either. Okay. Capri Sun or High C? Capri Sun because they still drink the Pop Tarts or toaster Strudels? Pop Tarts. Because in the military we lived, we survived eating those.

SPEAKER_02

What flavor do you like? Strawberry.

SPEAKER_01

I would probably put I like the strawberry and I like brown sugar too. But there's sugar, I can't eat them.

SPEAKER_00

I'm just saying that yeah. Burn out.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Very much. Let's move on to technology. Uh Nintendo 64 or PlayStation? None. I never played any of those machines.

SPEAKER_00

VHS or DVD? I would prefer DVD.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But had them both. Did you have a pager? I did. You did? Oh my god. I had two pagers, as a matter of fact. Why? And they used to beep, and then they came up with the written message. You could go and read them it.

SPEAKER_01

It was and then you still had to go to a phone to like oh yeah, of course. Of course.

SPEAKER_00

But it was technology. It was awesome technology.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Let me see. School. Oh, there's Walkman or Discman.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my gosh. I had them both and I enjoyed them both. I'm old. I say Walkman.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

School. Let me see. Recess or PE. Recess or gym.

SPEAKER_00

It depends on what age I was. 90s. 90s. I was already in going to the university. So that doesn't really apply to me. But when I was in school, I would pick PE. Yeah. Because again, I was not a social kid.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I needed PE too. Recess, I I don't. Alright, let's do one in fashion. Flannel or a windbreaker. But they have different they have fine hours.

SPEAKER_00

I'm gonna say flannel just because it's warm and cozy and and it connects me to Garth Brooks.

SPEAKER_01

Let me see. There's Disney, I won't do that. Hard ones. If you could bring one thing back, okay. This is a question for you. If you could bring one thing back from the 90s forever, what would you bring back?

SPEAKER_00

I might be confusing the 80s with the 90s, whatever, but leg warmers.

SPEAKER_01

No, Dave, you should. You should.

SPEAKER_00

I'm thinking leg warmers would I'm all for it.

SPEAKER_01

Look at the fanny pack made it back. They did. Who would have ever had thought?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, and the bell bottoms are back. So I'm saying leg warmers.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, yeah, heck yeah. I'm all for it. I'd wear I wear a fanny pack. All right. Let's see. Let me get you on a couple trivia questions. What was the name of Ross and Monica's last name on Friends? I have no idea. Okay, Geller. I have no idea. I believe you. What was the highest grossing? We did talk about this one. What was the highest grossing movie of the 90s? I would say Jurassic Park. Titanic. Ah Titanic. I believe yeah, a couple other ones, but these are hard.

SPEAKER_00

No, I trivia and I do not get along. I have too many brain cells missing.

SPEAKER_01

And last thing, uh, bonus, and I'll just give the answer the be kind and rewind. Be kind, rewind was the famous slogan of VHS rental. Do you remember going into it? Do you remember going into a blockbuster video? Of course. Wasn't that wild that we had actually had to walk into a store and hope that even though the case was there, the case of the movie was there, the movie might not have been there.

SPEAKER_00

And isn't it interesting? Again, and you had to rewind it before you brought it back. Of course. And but this is that right there goes back to what we just talked about. That is a company that decided to stay in their comfort zone and not grow. Yeah. That's a company that decided not to change. That's a company that decided to let the environment drift it away. Because Netflix went to Blockbusters and said, We don't have to do this. We can do this instead. And Blockbuster said, You're too young. I don't like the clothes you're wearing. I don't like how you talk to me because you should show a little bit more respect to me. Get out of my face. And but I do remember almost every weekend going to pick up two movies, and then you have to bring them back.

SPEAKER_01

And the Netflix started with sending you the movies and the correct.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, because that was the transitional period. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yep. What are we gonna see five years from now? We cannot wait. Keep evolving, keep growing. Okay, we're gonna close this out, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you so much, Erica, for joining me as always. Thank you for your incredible insight and wisdom. This has been an awesome and fun episode, and we look forward to having you on again. Great conversation.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you so much for having me, and I enjoyed it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you. If today's conversation resonated with you, you don't have to walk your journey alone. I offer emotional intelligence assessments with personalized coaching, one on one mindset coaching, and leadership development for teams and organizations. You can explore all of that at Kellymichelle Coaching.com. Link in the show notes. And I'll leave you with this awareness is powerful, but support is transformational.