Trail Talks
Trail Talks is your weekly dose of growth, purpose, and mindset mastery.
Hosted by Kelly Kruger, life and leadership coach, speaker, and owner of Kelly Michele Coaching, LLC, and creator of the Buffalo Trail Coaching Program, this show helps you rise stronger, think deeper, and lead better - in work, relationships, and life.
No fluff. No filters. Just real talk about growth, emotional intelligence, and self-leadership for people who want more than motivation - they want transformation.
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Trail Talks
When Success Becomes a Trap
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What if the very habits that made you successful are now limiting your growth?
In this episode of Trail Talks, Kelly and Terra dive into one of leadership's biggest paradoxes: what got you here won't necessarily get you there. They explore the hidden success traps that can keep leaders stuck, including working harder instead of smarter, saying yes to everything, struggling to delegate, chasing approval, and trying to control every outcome.
Drawing on insights from Marshall Goldsmith, John Maxwell, and the Peter Principle, they discuss why every new level of leadership requires a new version of you. Through personal stories and practical examples, they share how intentional growth, trust, and self-awareness can help leaders evolve rather than plateau.
If you're ready to move from being the doer to becoming the leader who develops others, this episode is for you.
Hey everyone, welcome back to Trail Talks, the podcast where we talk about growth, the messy, the beautiful, and everything in between. I'm your host, Kelly Kruger, founder of Kelly Michelle Coaching, where we focus on mindset, emotional intelligence, and leadership, all grounded in real life and real science. And joining me is my co-host and partner in growth, founder of Leading People LLC, Terrace Tennette, a leadership trainer and facilitator who brings insight, curiosity, and real-world perspective to every episode. So wherever you're listening from today, we're glad you're here, and thank you for joining us on the trail. Hey everybody, back to Trail Talks. Welcome back, Terra. Hey, glad to be back. All right, what are we talking about today? We are talking about success traps. Oh, I love this topic. When your strengths become your ceiling. Yes. What if the very things that made you successful are the same things preventing your next level of growth? Whatever got you here, could it get you there?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So when your greatest strengths become some of your biggest limitations. Because we go from being the doer to the leader to then developing one of leadership's greatest like paradoxes, though, that they don't really prepare you for. And like the habits that got you earned you recognition, or the habits that got you to promote habits that even make everyone trust you. Sometimes those have to change in order for us to succeed.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, let's start with some of them. So I want to kind of go through some of the success traps. I looked up, there were three people. One I'm going to talk about, Marshall Goldsmith. No book who got you here won't get you there.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I was gonna get back.
SPEAKER_00So good. So good. I was watching YouTube today. The behaviors that create early success often become barriers to higher leadership. Then, of course, John C. Maxwell is all about intentional growth, developing the leaders around you, and um, the Peter principle, every promotion requires a new set of skills. Yesterday's strengths are not always enough for tomorrow's responsibilities. And then we can kind of talk about personally, maybe where we have been trapped in that success. And then even now, in my current position, in my current assignment, like I definitely had to leave some things behind. And I think in every couple of years we're doing that. Um, whether we're in a different position or assignment or a promotion or taking on new responsibilities, we're finding that some things need to be left behind, and it requires us to up-level ourselves.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But it takes intentional focus and reflection and feedback from others to realize that there's a lot of self-awareness involved in this. So let's start with this one is heart, the hard work trap. Oh, yes. Look, this was me many years ago. Yes, you gotta work hard, you gotta work hard.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and I think we talked about that a little bit on one of the other podcasts about how we're bringing work home, and we think the more hours we're working, the the more successful we're gonna be. But really, you're just leading yourself to burnout. Just work now, it's more of smart work, not hard.
SPEAKER_00Like I want to work smart, I want to have systems, I want to have processes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, harder isn't always smarter, that's for sure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so that's the hard work trap. Hard work has diminishing returns. Early success all often comes from individual effort. It's the individual that works hard. Another one is success creates blind spots. So the danger isn't failure, the danger is succeeding with habits that eventually become limitations. It could be being the lone wolf. I've always done it myself. That's tough. You know, that if you're used to doing the hard work and if you're used to doing independent projects and then it's time to collaborate. I mean, really, at our point as leaders, our responsibilities are not to know everything. It would be great if we had all the answers. But right, the reality is we don't, but it's more of I know for me it's developing other leaders, yeah, creating clarity for them and in helping inspire and empower them. Yeah, it's more of a leader's responsibility versus having all the answers and doing it all.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I was looking into this um research framework. It's called High Functioning Survival Mode Framework, HFSM T M or whatever, from a doc Dr. Samantha Ray Dickinson. And she talks about how productivity equals safety. She specifically does this research on women and a very successful women and how they become they end up adapting or relating productivity to safety. So the more I do, the safer I am, the safer I feel. And it looks like success from the outside. I have to do all of this work. I have to keep up with everyone around me. If I want it done right, I'm gonna I need to do it. So she does a lot of research on that and how people a lot it's makes basically high-achieving women. Um, they equate it with safety, stability, value, belonging. Um, and they think that it's all earned through performance. What are your examples? I can see that.
SPEAKER_00I can see it too. I definitely see that. I I mean there's a couple things that stood out to me. Productivity equals safety. On the other side of that, are we being productive or are we just being busy? And then the performance piece of it. Yeah. Why do we feel like we need to perform? And this goes into my last assignment when I mean I could have I could have been in the classroom teaching and facilitating probably a lot more than what I was, but but I also realized I couldn't be in the performance phase all the time because as a leader, you're not there to perform, you're there to develop other people and empower them to do it. So I understand that participation equal safety, and I also understand the performance piece because we do feel like we need to perform, but at this level, it really is about encouraging others to perform and us guiding them. Am I tracking that? Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_01I was gonna say it's funny we were just talking about this. Um, I was talking about with a co-worker, she's now a director and she hates it. She's like, I hate my job. She was like, I and I thought she always loved her job, but she hates it because she's the director and she can't do what she loves to do, which is being out there instructing and doing walkabouts. She's like, I have to sit back here and do admin work now, and I have to trust my team to do it. She hates it.
SPEAKER_00It's tough. It really is. It's tough. It's tough to get out of that stage, but there is so many benefits to outgrowing that stage in your new role because you you now are in the as a director, you're now in the systems role, you're in the process role, you're in the leading role. It's yeah, it's more strategic. So I guess it's it's really comes down to what that leader prefers. Are they more of a doer and getting in the weeds, or can they balance both? Because you can, you can, you can do both. Yeah. Oh, yeah, let's talk about that. So productivity versus busy. Yeah. I don't know where to start with that. Because that's different too, because as you climb the ladder and you get into more leadership roles, you have to balance, and we we teach the five gears. You have to balance which gear you're gonna be in, you know, are you gonna be in sitting behind your desk answering emails all day, or are you gonna be in a planning, planning role or socialization, you know, connection role? I mean, you can just be sitting there answering emails all day, but is that productive?
SPEAKER_01Are you just looking busy doing something?
SPEAKER_00You can't do everything. Some things will have to, some things will have to wait, not be ignored, but some things will have to wait as we prioritize.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that kind of goes into the delegation piece of this, and also um always saying yes to everything. Because we've talked about before with my um book that our brains actually don't do well at multitasking, it's not a real thing. And so we can say yes, yes, yes, and we talk about how if you stop me in the middle of something, it takes us so many minutes or whatever to get back on track with that, and so you can't just keep saying yes, yes, yes, and you have to be good at delegating. And I guess that's where I see the productivity. Like, are things being completed? Not necessarily by me, but by my team. Did I delegate things out so that we can because that's actual productivity? Things are being completed, even if it's not by me. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and you said a couple things we can dig in there. The yes, saying yes to everything. That's another trap. So we talk about success traps. We had the hard work trap that hard work is it's not cool anymore, you know. Yeah, it's work smart, the lone wolf. That's I can do it better than anyone else, and I'm used to doing it independently. And then we have the yes trap, which is we say yes to everything. Delegation can feel a little risky.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I have gotten so me in my the position I'm in now in my leadership, that was something I was always good at delegating, but when I empowered my team to do well, yeah. Like they literally still be like, Hey, can you come and look at this? What do you what are your thoughts on this? Can I why are you asking me? I asked you to complete a task, I trust you to get it done. I don't need to be over your shoulder to view it. I trust you. And like that goes a really long way. But that is something that um that's a skill that I had to better develop in the role that I'm in now.
SPEAKER_00It's tough. And I think you have to apply a certain level of risk in what you delegate. It's it's as a leader or a manager, you know, CEO, whatever, you're usually our job is to provide intent. It's intent and the desired outcome. And then let your teammates or your employees figure out the how. And if you feel very nervous about the how, then provide some left and right limits, you know, provide some recommendations and suggestions, otherwise, let them do the how and give them feedback. One thing that Marshall Goldsmith talked about was adding too much value to something. So, say if somebody came to you and said, Hey, how about this idea? That's what we want. We want people to come up with ideas. Well, how about this idea? And they share the idea and you say, Well, that's great. And how about you add this and this? Well, now, because you're wanting to add more value to that idea, you just you may add five percent value, but you're taking away 50% of the passion that person had.
SPEAKER_01That's interesting.
SPEAKER_00Isn't that so interesting?
SPEAKER_01That is very interesting because I catch myself doing that, and it's about listening.
SPEAKER_00That's another thing that when when we climb the ladder, we go in different positions and we grow as leaders, we have to get better at listening. And so when somebody says, Hey, I have this idea, how about this? And okay, like just listen, just shut up and listen, and don't provide that feedback because then you just you just took their passion away. Yeah, for what for five percent of value into a project.
SPEAKER_01So something you could have left out, something, yeah.
SPEAKER_00How important was it when maybe this person would have figured it out along the way? Or you let them get excited, you let them share their idea, and you let them start, and then maybe halfway through they're gonna say, Hey, what do you think? What do you think? And then that's when you that's when you provide feedback, not right away, because right away then you're it's you're gonna you're gonna kill that spark.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's really, really interesting. But going back to the saying yes, no, to everything, we mistake availability for value when we do that. Explain what do you mean? We mistake availability for value. So the more you say yes, the more value you're adding, and the more people value you as a person, and that's where that success trap kind of stems from. You think, oh, I have to do this, I have to be available, I have to say yes, I can't say no, but you're mistaking that for value, and it's really not.
SPEAKER_00What comes at the expense of the yes?
SPEAKER_01Well, then you're saying no to something else, which could be something that's gonna yeah, yep, exactly.
SPEAKER_00Priorities, your own health piece.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00When you say yes, you're saying no to something else, you're sacrificing something else. So we've had the hard work trap, the lone wolf trap, the yes trap, and then the control trap, which is because we are competent in what we do, we have a hard time delegating.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And going back to the risk thing, it's you make that assessment as the leader. Is it risky that I just let a team figure out the how? I gave them the desired outcome, I gave them the intent. They understand that clear intent. Let them figure out the how.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I was just helping one of my troops came up with this really great idea and I was like, run with it. And then once you completed it, he's like, Will you look over it and give me some feedback? And I'm like, Yeah, he asked for it though. And then after that, I just had to show him how to make it legal. It was like an assessment or a questionnaire, and so now he he did the work part. Now I'm showing him and teaching him how to make this legal, just little things like that. He did the hard part, he did the work and it was great.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and he probably felt so great about the work that he did. Absolutely. The next one, you you kind of alluded to this before when we want to feel valued and the needing to be needed. That is the approval trap.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00Keep doing and doing, then we're gonna be needed. And I think you know that's how I was at one point many years ago. But and some of it was by virtue of work being put on me, but some of it was also me doing it, and then before you knew it, it was a single point of failure.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I actually for that high performance, the high-functioning survival mode framework. One thing that they point out is that so another trap is giving the work to someone because they're good at it, quote unquote. And so you just keep piloting on, pile it on because they're reliable, they're good at it. You know it's going to be done correctly, right? But we also need to pay attention to the environment that we're building that make people go into the survival mode or make people think that productivity is safety, the environment and what we do is also part of these traps.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Some leaders build their identity around being indispensable, and it's gonna catch up.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, one thing I've been emphasizing is the systems, it's building things that are repeatable and sustainable. And I mean, we've both been a part of organizations where sometimes we try to do things very big and that take a lot of work, yeah, and a lot of effort, and it could be a one-time thing. And when one of us leaves, it may not be done again because it wasn't sustainable and it wasn't repeatable. And that's how we need to think, especially in the work that we do, is have a playbook that anybody could pick it up and move it along. And I mean, look where we find ourselves every couple of years. It's it just keeps going back and going back. And we say, Oh, we got to get back to basics.
SPEAKER_01But I'm really big on simplicity as well, because I need other people to be able to figure it out. If I'm the only one that can run the system or drive the train, that's not good. And a project that I'm working now, they are making it way harder than what it should be. It's we do it all the time. There's already systems in place. We all just need to collaborate and come together and put it on to paper. That's it.
SPEAKER_00It yeah, I I I and I think that's another thing, and and we've already talked about it, but it's such a big part of this is growth as a leader needs to be also about process. We we need to be process-minded. Um, yeah, because there's so many, and we always talk about this, there are so many things that are uncertain, and there are so many unforeseen circumstances out there, and there will be. Control what you can control within yourselves and your organization and build a system, build processes that are repeatable and sustainable. Because guess what? Then you could put your energy toward so many other things, you're gonna need it. And as we talked about in one of our episodes, there there is such a thing as energy depletion throughout the day and what you're applying energy toward. Um so when you have processes, sound processes in place, it just helps put your energy toward other things, right? Healthy leaders build people who no longer need them every day. I love that.
SPEAKER_01I do too. I think that's something that I learned from you from way back when we were at right path. Like you I always say you just let us go and you delegate it, and you know, just have at it and bring it to me when you're done. But because you did that, we could function without you, really.
SPEAKER_00One of the questions on Yeah, but you could you guys could. We went a lot of places without me. Remember, you I would say, go, yeah, go do this, go rent a van and go wherever and put things together and go on this exercise, you guys. El Salvador, Alaska, all these places. And I said, Yeah, let them go, figure it out.
SPEAKER_01Yes, one of the reflection questions that um was over in our notes is um, Am I building a team or am I or building dependence on me? If I disappeared for two weeks, would my team fall apart? I think those are good ones.
SPEAKER_00You know what I think I wanted, and that's the nurture in me. I wanted dependency, but almost like like your guys' mom. Yeah, that's what I wanted. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Oh, you were a mom.
SPEAKER_00I didn't want you to rely on me for the work. I just wanted to be as careful. All right. So the next one is also about delegation. When leaders refuse to delegate, they often communicate. I this is about trust. I trust myself more than I trust you. I know I have fallen into that trap several times.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think I've probably fallen into all of them at least mentioned.
SPEAKER_00So I would start with, and this is typically how I operate. It's I trust until I don't trust. Like I'm not, I don't go into a situation, into a work environment where I'm like, I don't trust anybody. I guess, you know, it's no, I'm gonna be pretty open. I trust until I no longer trust.
SPEAKER_01So I will kind of do it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I will allow them to figure that out, but it's the undermining. That's where I've had a problem, and that's where I start to not delegate and not trust is if I allow the how to happen and I provide the intent and an expectation, but then along the way I'm undermined, then that's where I kind of have to start over again and I lose that trust. Yeah, everybody's different, not everybody's like that. And just because maybe somebody undermined doesn't mean the next person will and there was some reflection in there too that maybe I should have provided clear intent out of them.
SPEAKER_01Sometimes I think we're clear when we're not.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, what opportunity am I stealing from someone by refusing to let them grow?
SPEAKER_01That's good.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and and the thing is, is they may not even realize it. Usually the doers, our employees, they don't realize it might be an opportunity, but it's up to us to explain that. Exactly. We know that humans want to do meaningful work, yeah, want to feel valued, they want to feel like they're you know meeting the mission and fulfilling a Purpose, they all want that. And we have to give them as many opportunities as possible.
SPEAKER_01Rutgers was doing a study on this as well, and um they said that's when when we overly saturate someone with tasks by because they're good at it, or we don't do the delegation piece, we drive our workers, and workers go from driving success to undermining it. So they you know you get kind of frustrated and you know and upset and don't want to work for the company anymore and don't want to do your best because you probably were under um undervalued, or yeah, you were the person that got all of the work all the time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's up to us to really kind of you know spark that motivation sometimes. We don't know what people have been through in their past work environment, but we need to know how to pull that out of them, and they and it's also gonna be uncomfortable for them and discomfort is fine. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's where all the growing work happens.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but they don't know that sometimes they don't know that, they just they shy away from it because it feels uncomfortable and it could be they could be challenged or they don't know how. No, we're gonna help you and we can you and we have faith in you. Oh, this is one of my favorites. So we I I talked about this today. God, I've been saying this a lot lately. John Maxwell is is always talking about this too. Growth is not accidental. So whenever we want to improve something as we develop into the leaders we want to be, where there's always got to be some sort of goal. What are we working toward? And that goes for really any workplace workforce. That how do we ensure that that we have a growth plan? Like how how are we developing that plan from year to year? I know you're doing the same job every year, yeah, for about four years, we're doing the same job three to four years. But are we deliberately looking at ourselves and leaders looking at their team saying, This is what we'd like you to work on in the next year, and in the next year, and in the next year, you gotta know where you are and know where you want to be and fill in the gap.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because um, like we said earlier, every level every level of leadership asks a new version of you.
SPEAKER_00Pretty yeah, yeah, this was a good question. If you were still in your current role, one of the biggest mistakes people make is believing growth only happens with promotion. Like I just got promoted and I'm I'm a leader now. Yeah. Some people spend 10 years in the same position and become 10 years better. Others spend 10 years repeating year one 10 times. So if you're still in your current role three years from now, would you be dramatically better than you are today? Even without promotion, you can grow in communication, emotional intelligence, coaching, delegation, strategic thinking, public speaking, relationships, mentoring, influence, and innovation.
SPEAKER_01That's good.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, it's even looking at those and seeing, okay, where where can I grow in the next year? I know for me, it's I gotta be better at asking questions. It's the coaching part. Really? In in the yeah, in the workplace, not providing answers. Yeah, it's yeah, very it's very hard. That's for everybody that asking questions is very difficult because if you have the answers, you just you want to give the answer because you you have the answer. You want to be the smartest person in the room. And what do we say? If you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room. Yeah, so it's about asking the questions and having other people solve the problem, having other people answer the questions, it's being curious.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, that's a good one. I would say mine is similar, but it's fixing everything. I'm a fixer. It's an easy fix. Give it to me, I'll do it. Like, you know what I mean? It's along the same lines of letting them come up with the answer and asking more questions. But I yeah, I will I will have a way to fix something in two seconds. If you depending on what it is, I have well, I have a solution for that, but I I can't keep giving solutions. Yeah, because then that's when I fall into the word trap of doing everyone else's job, getting all of the workload dropped on me, and not saying no enough, or not just redirecting. Yeah, it's not even no, it's just redirecting, let them know who is actually responsible for it so that I don't end up doing it. I'm solution-based.
SPEAKER_00It's gonna keep happening. If if you continue to answer the questions and then be the fixer, they're gonna get used to that, and you're gonna continue to do it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so that's something I've been working on.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's tough. Okay, now what those were the seven I had stagnation trap, comfort trap, hard work trap, lone wolf trap, yes trap, control trap, and the approval trap.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but I have pretty much the same ones.
SPEAKER_00Why do we struggle to say no?
SPEAKER_01People pleasing? I'm not a people pleaser. I enjoy I think for me, I feel value when I when people trust me to do stuff. Here we go. That was a good reflection that I'm like, I want to help them, I want to, you know, do it. So I don't say I struggle to say no.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you will you feel it's a compliment, I guess, if people ask you to do something. Have you ever said yes to something you immediately regretted? Yes. Uh yes, I'm the one that came up with the idea and then I regret it.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Okay, what's a habit that made you successful early in your career that you later had to unlearn?
SPEAKER_00I think it it's it's the hard work piece, it's taking work home, it's it's obsessing over work. And that probably started back in in my silver flag days where it was I was relentless, burning both ends of the candle. When I wasn't at work, it was taking the books home and studying and learning everything I possibly can, um, and then doing things out in the community. I mean, it was I don't know what I was trying to prove. I definitely, for a lot of my career, got a chip on my shoulder, and I was very competitive. Um, I wanted to be the best. Um, so I think for that, and then that that carried through the right pad. I mean, you guys saw how I worked, and it was non-stop. So I would say it's it's it was unlearning, and I don't know what the phrase is, not the working hard, but I think I think the fact that working long hours isn't cool anymore.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_00I can see that that work in that crazy work will be there. The work it's not going anywhere, yeah, the work will be there, and so you've you learn to prioritize, you learn to say no. Some emails, if it's just information, I don't need to look, I'll put it away and read it later. Um yeah, so I I think it's I think it's just that it's learning that Erica Kelly says it all the time the machine moves on. Yeah, the machine is designed to move on. You do what you can while you're there, which is moving the needle and leaving a place better than you found it, but you don't I think that's real success. Yes, it truly is. You don't have to do it all, you don't have to do all these huge things, it's finding a healthy balance, and I think that also has to do with knowing who you are and your identity and your own purpose.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's crazy because all those things that you said, if you're in a certain part of your career, life or whatever, you wouldn't think that's a bad thing. That you wanted to learn every single thing that you could, that you were out in the community. Those sound great, but you had to move on from that as you progressed throughout your career. And yes, we saw you work like that, but we were the doers at the time, so to us, we that's what you were supposed to be doing.
SPEAKER_00We didn't see anything wrong with it because we were those doers, but it wasn't no, it's not healthy, no, but I mean I I know that now back then I didn't, and I think another thing is, and I love the five gears, and I think we should talk about the five gears another episode, but and I don't even remember what all five are, but it's it's understanding what gear you need to be in to perform well, whatever position you're in. And in mine, it's it's making sure I'm in certain gears and certain times, it's understanding that I cannot be in a social gear all the time. And there are times when, believe it or not, I actually want to socialize. Oh, and I'm like, oh no, I can't. I gotta, I gotta go, I gotta go, you know. And it's pulling out of that gear and then going into a productivity gear where I actually need to focus on administrative things. And oh, by the way, I need to get into another gear. And so I I think that's so important, and we could do a whole podcast episode on that because it's a fun one.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00What about you? So, what what was something you had to unlearn?
SPEAKER_01I think it's the saying yes to everything.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, what about perfectionism?
SPEAKER_01I definitely had to unlearn that. 100% had to, and a prop how to properly take feedback because in my career field for corporate, a lot of times I'm building their corporate training plan and program from scratch. And I have to take it to the director. And I'm not I'm so grateful for my old director, um, Athena, because she would literally chop my head off. She'd be like, Nope, take it back. Nope, take it. I mean, it at first I'm like, gosh, why is she being so rude? But I needed it. She was like, no, this is not what I wanted. Um, you need to fix that. There's a typo there, this, that, and the third. I'll take it back to the drawing board. But it was just very helpful because when you're an instructor and you teach a lot and you're doing corporate training, you have to be able to digest the feedback that you get at the end of your class. And that was really difficult for me because I'm a perfectionist.
SPEAKER_00It is, it's very difficult, that sort of feedback. And it's like rework, and you got to go back and you feel you really got to control your emotions.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's tough in the moment. Um, but it, but then it, you know, you realize holy cow, like this actually helped me. Tough loss.
SPEAKER_01For sure.
SPEAKER_00What's something you've learned to protect that you didn't protect five years ago?
SPEAKER_01That's a good question.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm trying to think of my answer.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And honestly, I would say for me, probably identity. You've always been good with that. For me, I I wasn't. So I would say my identity and pieces in there too, but probably my identity more than that. Especially happen time to myself and learning me.
SPEAKER_01I think maybe cutting it off, like cutting, not bringing it home. Yeah. Yeah. I've gotten better actually this year. For the last four years, I feel like I was just constantly going. And my mom would be like, But you why are you why do you have your laptop at the dinner table? I'm like, it's gonna take me a second. I just have to send this email. And she's like, You shouldn't do that. I always have my laptop with me still, but it's because the nature of my job, but also I don't have to log on. I don't every day I don't have to. Yeah, somebody calls me and asked for something, okay.
SPEAKER_00And you guys are always on. Yeah. Here are a couple questions. Light, funny questions, because we'll wrap up here soon. Kind of ties to the episode. Some things that maybe we liked back then that we don't like now. What's a food you loved as a kid but can't stand now? Prunes. Prunes? What the hell? Your mommy, your mom got prunes.
SPEAKER_01Yes, I used to walk around with a bag of prunes, eating them, but now I can't stand them.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01That was the only thing I could think of for real, because I'm I would pretty much eat the same things.
SPEAKER_00That's good. That's good. I would say for me, it's like ham. Like, I don't know why. I can't, I don't don't give me a ham sandwich. Like when I was younger, my parents made me a ham sandwich. I need it, I'd be fine. Thanksgiving, and ham now. It's like, I don't know, something about it. Like, I don't don't give me ham. There's probably other ones too, but that one just keep in mind. Ah, this is good. And I already have my answer. What's a phrase people use that instantly annoys you?
SPEAKER_01We can go on and on not to piggyback. I hate a piggybacker. Oh my god. Because you're piggybacking.
SPEAKER_00I can't stand it. I heard that today somewhere. Somebody said I was like, I might have said it. I don't know. Sometimes I do say it. What's yours? You're not wrong. Well, then I'm right. You're not wrong. Okay, all right. Well, then just say I'm right. I don't know, but don't say I'm not wrong.
SPEAKER_01You're not wrong.
SPEAKER_00Why do people say that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's like a slap in the face. Like they're just their ego's too big and won't allow them to say you were right. I was like, you're not wrong.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, then that means I'm right. Oh well boy, so funny. Um oh, here's a random question. Since Joey Chestnut won another Nathan's famous hot dog eating contest over the 4th of July, what food could you probably eat way too much of if there were a competition?
SPEAKER_01Watermelon.
SPEAKER_00Really? Watermelon?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I love watermelon.
SPEAKER_00Good. I don't really get to know. I don't know what mine would be. Chicken wings. Wouldn't I guess? Not from Buffalo or anything, are you? It'd probably be wings. Buffalo. And I can eat a lot of pizza too. Okay, that's it.
SPEAKER_01I have some quotes for I have something for closing though.
SPEAKER_00Close it out. Give a quote.
SPEAKER_01All right. All right. In closing, that's it. No, we just need to read where the greatest leaders eventually realize something. Your job isn't to be the smartest person in the room, your job is to build a room full of smart people. Success got you here. Growth requires something different. Don't become trapped by the habits that made you successful. Evolve them because every new level of leadership asks a new version of you.
SPEAKER_00Love it. Thank you, Sarah. Thank you, everybody. We'll see you next time on Trail Talks. If today's conversation resonated with you, you don't have to walk your journey alone. I offer emotional intelligence assessments with personalized coaching, one-on-one mindset coaching, and leadership development for teams and organizations. You can explore all of that at Kellymichelle Coaching.com. Link in the show notes. And I'll leave you with this awareness is powerful, but support is transformational.