How Matt Lund Revived a Bankrupt Pickleball Club | Leadership, Strategy & Sustainable Growth

When The Pickleball Club at Lakewood Ranch went bankrupt just weeks after Matt Lund and his family moved to Florida, most people would have walked away. Instead, Matt chose faith over fear — and rebuilt the club from the ground up.

In this episode of Racquet Biz Podcast, host Dominique Lemperle sits down with Matt Lund, CEO of The Pickleball Club at Lakewood Ranch, to unpack the story behind one of the sport’s most remarkable turnarounds. From a toxic culture and financial collapse to a thriving, data-driven operation with a strong community ethos, Matt shares his blueprint for sustainable growth in the fastest-growing sport in America.

He explains:

• How he rebuilt trust with members and staff after bankruptcy
• The critical mistakes pickleball facilities make when scaling too fast
• Why diversifying revenue is the key to profitability
• His approach to hiring, leadership, and culture change
• How faith and family guided every decision during the rebuild

Whether you’re an operator, investor, or pickleball enthusiast, you’ll walk away with actionable insights on what it really takes to run a successful sports facility in 2025.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Dominique: Hello and welcome. I'm your host Dominique Lemperle. Today's guest is Matt Lund, the CEO of the Pickleball Club in Lakewood Ranch, Florida. Matt is an accomplished executive leader with over 16 years of experience as an executive director and CEO. His leadership has been pivotal in transforming organizations through strategic planning, operational management, and growth initiatives.

Matt's expertise includes multi-facility management, fundraising staff development, [00:01:00] transitional leadership, and board leadership with a proven track record in revitalizing struggling organizations. Welcome Matt to the pod. 

[00:01:12] Matt: Well, thank you. Thank you for having me, and thank you for that great introductory.

[00:01:17] Dominique: You're welcome. And, and thank you for taking the time. I know you're a very busy man. Thanks for taking, the time out of your day. first I wanna ask you how, tell me a little bit about your background. Where did you grow up? What racket sports did you grow up playing and what eventually motivated you to become CEO?

[00:01:43] Matt: Yeah, so I grew up, out on the west coast in, California, not too far outside of the San Francisco area. And, you know, I was lucky enough to grow up in a beautiful area that, you know, you go one hour, one direction, you're at the beach, and the other hour I was in the mountains and. [00:02:00] So, outdoor recreation was, just everywhere for me.

And, it, it was a populated enough area that it, it really brought a lot of good, talented athletes and so it, it gave me an opportunity to find challenges with whatever sport I went into. And funny enough, I actually never grew up playing any racket sports. I grew up playing soccer and football and baseball and and basketball and, um.

I was blessed enough to, go to a great, high school where I played baseball and basketball and I ended up getting a four in basketball scholarship in college. I played a little bit beyond, college as well, but really didn't have any racket, sports background, but absolutely loved just the competitive part of sports and, having an opportunity to meet people and compete against.

 and so it's always really been in my nature. just to compete and, and, obviously the social [00:03:00] aspect of it. and so what, what really, as I got older and went through college and then my playing days were over, it was really more about how could I make an impact, on just the communities I lived in, whether it was the direct community or communities around me.

 it was how can I take what I've learned in, in the years of playing And, you know, the, the social aspects and, and just general leadership aspects. is, is really where I wanted to, to, to strive and, look to thrive in a career, of leading, leading an organization. and so, before I became the CEO here at the Pickleball Club, my main career was at the YMCA, for about 16 years and 10 of those years I was a CEO of a few different wives around the country.

[00:03:48] Dominique: Understood. And if you. Can you walk us through this process? you and your family, your wife, Stephanie, and your kids. You [00:04:00] have four kids. You are living a successful life in Wisconsin. you get a call or you get recruited by the Pickleball Club and you decide to uproot your life and, move to Florida and you arrive in December.

And a couple weeks later, the, the club goes bankrupt. What goes through your mind? how does your family react? and then you, you make the decision to wait, six months and get rehired there as the CEO of the pickleball club under new ownership. Walk us through that process. What kind of risks did you take and why did you decide?

To stay put and, and reopen the club. 

[00:04:53] Matt: Yeah. Well, there there's a lot there. I think it's a great question. but there's obviously a lot that took place over the [00:05:00] last roughly year. So, I, yes, I have four kids, my wife and I, we, we've been in the pickleball since really the middle of the pandemic. we've been playing for about four, four and a half years.

 again, we were blessed enough to be, recognized by Selkirk, which put us under a pro player contract or actually our whole family. and we were traveling the US playing pickleball and, we found ourself down here in Florida quite often competing in tournament. and as my kids got better and they started playing the pro level, and I have two younger ones that are around a 3, 7, 5 ish, four oh level, they're looking to try to continue on and, and make a career in the pickleball, arena.

And so, the more that my family got into the game of pickleball and the more serious that we got as a family, and again, being down here in Florida, we loved it. We thought we would, look to come down this way. I was looking to transition outta the Y [00:06:00] and possibly lead a, pickleball facility, whether we were going to, look to build one, look to, redevelop one or, look to come work with a company that had already established and looking for, you know, a new leader to come in.

[00:06:16] Dominique: And you were CEO or, or GM of the Y, is that correct? 

[00:06:21] Matt: So I was the CEO at the time of the Y Okay. In Wisconsin. And I, I've been a CEO. in a couple different states at a few different Ys. And, it was just time to transition, the career and especially where the passion lied with the kids and, with, with what our family was looking to do.

And again, looking to come down here to Florida. so we came across to Pickleball Club and, it looked like a great opportunity. Looked like something that would fit and align really well with our family. it it was an opportunity that really. On the outside, it looked like somebody couldn't, couldn't pass by.

 and, and that we needed to embrace it when the [00:07:00] opportunity was presented to myself and even the conversation I had with my wife. And so, yes, we did come down here and two weeks after we were down here, the company did close. And, I think there were a lot of staff that were, a little shocked by it.

But some, as I'm learning, were not shocked by it. it's amazing how people can hide certain things until you actually. Our, our, really kind of just, you know, you dive into it and you're like, wow, this isn't what I thought it was. And, you know, I think that happens in life. And, and so for us it was a shock.

We had just moved down here, put our kids in school, and, and my wife and I, we sat back and at first when it happened, yeah, we were angry and, we, we were frustrated, we were upset. But at the same time, we're, we're, you know, we're I, I, I believe that we're. You know, true Christians. And the thing that we leaned into was God and a lot of prayer and said, Hey God, what is this?

What is this for? You know, what, what, what do we need to learn by this? And what [00:08:00] do we need to do to, to help our family continue to move forward? And so there was a lot of prayer in the first month along with a lot of anger. it, it was definitely like a morning, process of these peaks and valleys of emotions.

And, it just happened to be that after a couple months. really leaning into God and leading into, why we came down here. we ended up meeting some good people along the way, and really never lost hope and thought there's gotta be a bigger picture of this. There's gotta be a reason why these, these things happen.

And so I was, blessed enough to come across, the owner now that owns the pickleball club and myself, my wife, and he and his wife. We went out to lunch and, we talked about this greater vision of how to do it bigger and better than what it was before. And how do we do it to where it's a sustainable model?

How do we do it to where we can, compliment the community and, and serve the [00:09:00] community? And after a great lunch meeting, he said, well, I'm looking to buy the facility and if it happens, I want you to come in and I want you to lead it. And we, we want to build on it. And if we make it successful, who knows where it could take us from there.

You know, is that more facilities, is that growth on what we're doing now? And so now we're going on five months of being open. it's been a great relationship between myself and the owner. we're hiring on more staff members are coming back. Obviously there were a lot of members in the area that had a little bit of like PTSD just because there were a lot of people hurt by the closure.

There was a lot of money that went out, a lot of feelings and, and emotions. and I feel like that's really subsiding now and it's going away. And so a lot of great positive, talk around the community. as far as the finances go, we're doing very, very well. we're on the performa that I built out we're, you know, we're five months in, but where I built out the performa, it was where we're at in, month nine.

And so we're ahead [00:10:00] of projections, which is great. the leagues that we continue to put in tournaments, those, those kind of things. It, they're all going really well and it's what to be expected with a beautiful facility and just operations being ran, right. So it's an exciting time and we're, we're definitely looking forward to the future as we continue moving forward, as we hire more staff and membership grows.

 it is just making sure that we do what is right, and, and I think we will be successful. 

[00:10:31] Dominique: Matt, that is so good to hear. I'm so happy for you and your family, honestly. I got to know you guys when I lived in that area as well, and I remember when, when you took over at the time it was as the, as the general manager.

You surveyed the entire membership you took. Days and days, surveyed the membership and listened to them and took, took their feedback [00:11:00] at the time, the club had a terrible reputation and it, it had a toxic environment all around, unfortunately. And, members were leaving. Members were talking badly about the club.

Staff was talking badly. And, every, quite frankly, everyone was frustrated and angry. Now my question is, and and what can everybody in the industry learn from this example, how you turn a place around bankrupt and toxic into. Performing, being ahead of schedule in terms of, in terms of financial expectations.

And now all the employees that went to the competition, I, I heard are now coming back. 

[00:11:56] Matt: Yeah. 

[00:11:56] Dominique: That's amazing. Matt. Share how, how you did that. [00:12:00] 

[00:12:01] Matt: Yeah. So it, it is definitely a team effort. It, it's not just my effort, but I think it's, it is a matter of how the leadership comes together. you know, and I always try to tell people when I hire 'em on, is that.

I'm not the smartest guy in the room and I, I hope I will never be the smartest guy in the room, is I wanna hire people that are smarter than me, that are more talented, that, that just can, can show me what I can learn and then how I can support them. And so that's a little bit about the cultural piece, is that we, we are trying to make sure that we build a very inclusive, very diversified team that is, that has experience coming from.

 all different areas and yes, the former employees that we have that moved on to competitors that are closer in the area, they've heard what's going on here. They've actually come here to play and visit. and they wanted to come back because they were excited. And so, you know, I walk in them with open arms and said, Hey, let's, let's build something special together here.

But, as far as the, the club goes, you [00:13:00] know, getting, getting the club up and going, there was a lot to be done in there, there. and to start with, it was really, right before we opened our doors, my wife and I, my and my wife's a, a great team member here. we do a a lot together. her, her and I had just gotten on the phone and we started calling everybody around the country that would talk to us, that would, that have, either currently or in the past had run pickleball facilities, west Coast, east Coast, north, south Midwest, didn't matter.

 we were calling everybody that we could to find out what they were doing, how they were doing it, their price structure, their operations, what was successful, what wasn't successful, and anybody that would give us the time, we talked to 'em. And then all that feedback we took back and we documented and we said, okay, how do we want to design this and what are we seeing that's successful?

 and then we took what we learned from the previous club, what didn't work, and then what could work. a lot of data. I'm a huge data [00:14:00] guy. Absolutely love data. 

[00:14:01] Dominique: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[00:14:02] Matt: And so, going into the how does it work, factor is, when you start looking to build facilities like pickleball facilities, they, they can't be ran like a Lifetime Fitness or an LA Fitness or Planet Fitness, or a lot of investors or builders are coming in, going, oh, we can model this as a gym.

You can't. And I know for experience, because of running large, multimillion dollar. organizations with a y and massive, you know, recreation complexes that have aquatic centers and childcare and gyms, is that you can't model this after that because the square footage in, in population won't equate to be the same.

And so when you build, like similar to here, when you build a facility that's 40,000 square feet, you can't put in 2000 members or 5,000 members. It just won't work because you don't have the space to be able to have everybody play. And so the only way [00:15:00] you can make a model like this work successfully, and this is where you have to make sure when you hire people, they understand what the company model is, the policies, the operations is that, the model is, is different.

And I think people are still learning because pickleball is so new and these facilities that are going up so fast is that you have to diversify your revenue. And so pickleball itself will not work on its own whether you have a base membership or you do a pay for play. or you try to rent out the facility, it just won't work on its own.

And so diversifying your revenue, having a pro shop, having a small cafe, but it doesn't need to be a restaurant. Now, if you go to the restaurant style, there, obviously a lot of the money's gonna be made in the food, but this is more for just a pickleball facility itself, not a restaurant and social entertainment place.

 but, the food can be very important if you do it right. Obviously any sort of alcohol sales. but for us, we decided to get rid of a couple courts [00:16:00] indoors and go from 12 courts to eight. And, we built, and currently I'm building a, gym right now. So I have a basketball court and volleyball court.

It's more, rental space that will create revenue for us. one of the other things I did as well is I took our office space. That was a, a big office space that had cubicles in it. completely removed all of 'em because I believe the staff should be on the floor in interacting with members and not hiding up in an office regardless of what the position is.

 and so we're out, up here at my office. I think I've been up here a dozen times in five months, and that's just to do some bookkeeping stuff. Other than that, my office is at the bar or at a table. 

[00:16:40] Dominique: Yeah. 

[00:16:40] Matt: And, and so I interact with the members and make sure I, I'm there to, to have conversations and learn.

And see what we're doing, get feedback, and then make adjustments where needed. but, we took the office area and we remodeled it into a full health and wellness center. and what really it's a wellness and [00:17:00] recovery center, and that Wellness and Recovery Center has cryo lounges, hydro massage beds, red light therapy, beds, and massage chairs.

And so, we're, we obviously have a lot of senior members. that as they play, even if they're not a senior and, and they're a, you know, 25 or 30-year-old adult, when you play, you get soreness. Mm-hmm. And you have inflammation and you get injuries. And so how do you, how do you recover from that?

And that's what we wanted to be able to support and have as a, kind of an amenity, here in our center. And so, again, we're really diversifying how our revenue streams come in. and making sure that, that we are, really making a, a strategic effort into having a sustainable budget. And, and that's the big part of it.

So hiring on the right people, understanding your direction, the strategic, planning your operations, but then making sure that the things you're putting in. [00:18:00] are gonna make sense to your mission and operations. and that's really what it comes down to. So there's a lot that goes into that, and it's easy to say in, you know, five minutes here.

 but it's, it's grinding work every day. sure. You know, 10, 12 hours a day. and right now it's six to seven days a week, and we had planned on that as we opened, but as I hire more staff and, really, as operations continues to build. we'll, we'll get the right people in here and, you know, continue to move in the right direction.

[00:18:33] Dominique: Yes. You know, Matt, you mentioned sustainable budget. I remember when I was there, I saw so many employees in the club and almost no customers, so. I, I saw where, where this was headed. you know, the club, eventually it would turn into bankruptcy. It's a no brainer. So you, made a decision to [00:19:00] cut the staff significantly.

Can you talk about that, how you saved labor costs and how many full-time employees you currently have? Full-time, part-time, and 10 99 employees. 

[00:19:14] Matt: Sure. So right now we have five staff at the desk and they rotate through the hours. So our hours are 8:00 AM to 8:00 PM that is staffed hours Monday through Friday, and then Saturdays and Sundays.

One of the things that we did here, it is that we created a welcoming environment meeting that whether we're staffed or not, we have operational hours happening. And so we have a keypad at the door. So when a member or a non-member registers for a program, they're emailed a confirmation with a PIN code, and that pin code allows them to then access our, our front door and come in and play.

And so it says, what is 

[00:19:53] Dominique: the name of that technology? Can you share that? 

[00:19:55] Matt: Yeah. It's called Bvo. And it bvo it actually, yeah, BVO. It actually [00:20:00] works directly with Court Reserve, and they communicate with one another. so it recognizes the members that are coming in and also who's trying to put in the codes, so we know who's in our building.

And then I also upgraded our security cameras and we have 'em all over the building. but all of our alcohol locks up. All of our food locks up. you know, and then all obviously all of our doors to our offices lock up. And, so when people are in here, we'll, you know, we'll be able to see 'em through our security cameras, but we also know who's coming in the door.

 we know who scans in when they come in. But the important thing is, is that, to save on costs for, for the employee costs, or for staff wages, we're staffed eight to eight during the week, but then Saturdays and Sundays, we don't have staff. You can come in through the door code access. Now I've been here on weekends, typically working because we have people that are still signing up for membership.

We have people that are coming in wanting to buy, paddles out of our pro shop or bags or shoes. some [00:21:00] people like to come in in the afternoon and have, some wings or, you know, a beer and that's great. and as we continue to get busier, we probably will staff a few hours during the weekend. but right now that's helping save on the overhead, not having an excessive amount of staff that really aren't needed.

 and then we do have a cleaning crew that comes in every night and cleans and throws out trash. And so everything stays nice and, you know, tidy around here, but it's being smart with how you're staffing things out and not wasting resources, right? so that, that door access helps. again, getting the right security camera and being able to monitor who's coming in and out.

 some of the other things that we did to really lighten up on the, the staff, the, the, the manning power of that is that we wanted to make sure all of our systems that we got, whether it's our, our inventory through our pro shop or our food and beverage, program that we [00:22:00] use and, and keeping inventory, wanna make sure that all the systems talk with each other.

 and so I don't need to hire additional staff to run one side of it or the other side of it. and we also don't run off of a direct server anymore. We run everything through the cloud. So I can work offsite if I'm traveling for volleyball tournaments with my daughter or pickleball tournaments with all my kids or family, is that we can access and do everything that's needed for our customer service aspect.

Calling back, I can even on my phone, you know, I can make phone calls from, from my phone as if I'm sitting in my office 'cause of the way I have the phone system set up. So if a member is struggling at the door. They call a number, it rings and then we can get it moving. And so as staff come in more and we get, more people in the right spot, we'll have 'em set up with the right systems.

And so we're being efficient and effective with what we're doing. and I think that was a lot of the demise of the last company that, that had this place was, they just had too many systems in place and not enough people that knew [00:23:00] how to use 'em. And then. a lot of hours wasted because they weren't efficient with what they were doing.

Yep. and that'll kill a company very, very quickly. So, to go back to the original question, as far as staffing goes, we, we have staffed very intentionally around five people at the desk. I have six pros, that, are all employed by me, but they only work through the hours that they run the clinics, camps, and lessons.

 I don't have them just sitting around the facility. you know, really wandering around not doing anything and getting paid for it. And, and so I hire them on, I don't, I don't make 'em do a 10 99, and it's because we want to build a team. We want to build a family. And so that's why we're, we're making that commitment to 'em and they get employee benefits with it instead of just being a general 10 99.

And then as far as full-time staff, we'll have four full-time staff on here. that will really kind of take full ownership of every department. So even myself, um. You know, yes, I'm the [00:24:00] CEO. I'm also part of the, you know, doing backend admin bookkeeping. if I need to be the janitor for the day, guess what?

I'm grabbing 'em mop and I'm cleaning bathrooms and toilets. Yeah. you know, if I need to run the pro shop and sell items, I do that. If I need to go in the kitchen and pour some beer or make some food, I gotta do that as well. And if I have to hop on the court, I have my master's, coach and instructor certification for pickle Wall.

 you know, if I have to hop on and run a clinic or run lessons and I get on and do it, you know, I'm a certified food manager and so if I have to get back there and make food and serve, then I do it as well. So it's wearing multiple hats, but it's not just me, it's, it's the other staff that are stepping in and doing those same type of roles.

And that's the only way that you can run these type of facilities, efficiently and effectively again, and, and run 'em at the best that you can. It is before. The model here was very much about they would hire somebody and only do one thing, 

[00:24:57] Dominique: right? And 

[00:24:58] Matt: then if you try to step out of that, [00:25:00] you are almost shunned upon or told stay in your lane.

 and that's just ridiculous. You should never do that, right? That that's, you know, there, there's zero reason for it. And it's, it's not good for building an employee culture, but it's also not good to have employees that can never think out of the box. Right. And so that's incredibly important. so that's a little bit about the backend stuff and, and really how we got things going and what our employee structure is like here, and it seems to be working very well.

[00:25:26] Dominique: No, that's very helpful, Matt. Just to understand how lean an organization has to run, especially in the startup phase. Maybe later on you can add a little bit more, but at the beginning it has to be lean. And as you said, you're, you're chipping in a lot and you're wearing different hats. can you walk us through the monthly bills and in a facility of this size faces every day or every month?

What kind of [00:26:00] bills do you guys have to pay? 

[00:26:04] Matt: Yeah. Well, this facility is, is a very expensive facility to run, so that's why you have to be. Very conscious and strategic around how you're going to run, you know, your staffing and, and just your inventory. The other things that go with it. it's a 40,000 square foot building.

It's a large building. There's a lot of open space. to give you a prime example, just the, the electric here is a little over $6,000 a month. just for this one building, that doesn't include, you know, your, your water and gas. give you a prime example, of, just an expense you wouldn't expect is that, we got hit by lightning, just about a month ago.

And we have, some things in our, in here, in our building that when we do get hit, that it goes directly to a piece in our, here in our building that basically protects the rest of [00:27:00] the electrical. Well, that board that protects that electrical got fried when we got hit. Well, that was a $5,000 piece of equipment that had to be replaced.

Mm-hmm. And fortunately, that's not something that is not a monthly piece. So when you're doing buildings like this, it's a beautiful building. It's a large building, but you have to be prepared for the things that you don't expect. and so that's putting money away in capital. We always talk about running budgets to cover your general operations, your payroll, things like that.

But it's the unexpected stuff that sneak up on you that you never expect. And so being able to, really it's your deferred maintenance cost that you have to put away for. And that's what's really hard when you do have a startup company or a new co newer company. people usually don't put away for the deferred maintenance aspects.

And so for us, having, you know, being aware of what our payroll is, our monthly utility bills, again, water, gas, electric. but the other one that kind of sneaks up on you is the [00:28:00] liability insurance. Mm-hmm. You know, when you run large facilities like this, you have to have liability insurance.

That liability insurance can be anywhere between about 40 to $70,000 a year. And, you know, that's a, that's a big check to write when you're a startup company. absolutely. And so you, you've gotta be aware that, hey, I've gotta, you know, let's average it out and say I've got 50 or $60,000, that I've gotta write a check just for liability insurance.

Mm-hmm. And nobody sees that cost. 

[00:28:29] Dominique: Right. 

[00:28:30] Matt: so that, that's another piece that's in there too. Your une, not your, your, employee, or unemployment benefits that you need to pay out when you get things started through payroll. just for protection for yourself, with your employees, you know, that's, for us.

It's another, about $12,000 for the year. Yeah, that some people don't see. and so there's all these backend costs that don't get built out and that doesn't really talk much about the marketing piece, just the [00:29:00] general operations. You have your marketing that you wanna spend, you know, somewhere between, say, three and $5,000 a month in marketing to make sure that you are marketing and then getting the programs out.

And the people know about what you're doing. you know that those are other things that people look at, or that you need to look at as you're doing your budget. again, your payroll and, and what's going out in your payroll. a facility like this, you're looking at roughly, you know, 40 to $50,000 a month in payroll.

 that yes, that's gonna be going out, when you have a facility that size fully up and running. Now, we're less than that right now. but those are about the average on a facility this large. where again, the former company, it was much, much larger. they had a lot of salary going out. And mm-hmm.

So very aware of what all these costs add up to. And I would say to anybody, do not overinflate your revenue, if anything, overinflate your expenses and be very conservative on your revenue. And then [00:30:00] if you can still balance it, you'll be in good shape. Yes. But what happens is, and I've seen a lot of packets go out to investors, and I've seen a lot of, you know, budgets, or performance get built.

And I'll, and the first thing I look at is like, I go, okay, are, is this built off an actual budget or is this just a projected performa? And if it's a projected performa, I go, okay, well whatever revenue you put in, cut it by a third. And that's more what you might hit. and then whatever expenses you put in, grow it by a.

Right. That's more of what you're gonna, your expenses are gonna be. So that's just, that's things that, that, that doesn't make sense unless you've gone through it many, many times. And so for anybody who is looking to build or create a business around this, around especially pickleball, it is that you have to get somebody who has experience in these things to give you the knowledge on the backend things that may not even come to the forefront of your mind while you're doing this.

 and so those are all the pieces. and [00:31:00] there's a lot more with the budget, whether you're buying food, you're buying basic inventory for your pro shop, or just having to buy employee shirts, you know, employee shirts. Yep. All of a sudden you're spending, you know, $5,000 a year on employee shirts. there are all these little costs that come up, but what, on the bigger picture of it, when I, when I talk about expenses with people, they go, oh, well you have all these members.

You know, to cover your costs. And my question is, well, let's just go back to the simple, addition and subtraction of my electric bill being over $6,000 a month. Mm-hmm. Well, if my membership, you know, is we have memberships from $80 a month up to our family membership at $525 a month, is that, how many members do I need to have just to cover my electric bill?

Right. And so, you know, it's hundreds of members if you're doing it $80. you know, just, just to cover an electric bill. And so that does, that's not [00:32:00] including the liability insurance or the payroll or anything else, or a $5,000, you know, piece of equipment that goes out in my server room. that pops up or having to refinish a floor.

We just redid a couple floors here. you know, and that was $20,000. Wow. So it, it is things like that, that jump up that people don't quite realize, the true cost. And so, mm-hmm. It is expensive. it is. And, and there's a lot more hidden costs. And I could probably sit here for about two hours and go through all that, but, what I'm saying is.

 really get an expert to look at what you're doing when you're building it out on your revenue versus expenses. And is it truly gonna make sense on the numbers? 

[00:32:42] Dominique: Yes. That's so valuable. Matt, coming back to the memberships, you, I believe you're gonna cap your membership at four 50, is that correct?

You wanna cap it? hundred, 

[00:32:56] Matt: yeah. It'll be capped to 500. 

[00:32:58] Dominique: Oh, at 500? Yeah. [00:33:00] Okay. Can you give us. A sense, how did you come up with that number? 500? 

[00:33:07] Matt: So quite a bit of the data that I've been looking at is the usage of our courts through, through our software program, court Reserve. And so I look at how many members we currently have with the amount of court space, along with the number of hours that we have open a total court usage.

And, really it's, it's balancing act. It's a balancing act between the amount of revenue I need coming in to pay my bills. And the, the amount after that, that can then be, still giving the quality that is expected as a member to be able to get court time use. And so for our facility here, having eight indoor courts and two outdoor courts, that seems to be the magic number for us when I run the numbers and put it together.

 and, and so it's really, it, it's looking at all these different pieces of the puzzle to put it together and say, okay, this is the magic number. If we go, if we go [00:34:00] north of that 500 number, what's gonna end up happening is we're gonna have too many people getting on wait lists and too many people not getting able to play, which then takes down the quality of membership, which means your retention level is gonna end up dropping after year one when their contract's up and that that's not what you want.

And so there's a fine balance of looking at your, your open play, your skill play. Your leagues, your clinics, your tournaments, all those things that come into it. You have to balance that all out to make sure that you're giving what members would expect. Yes. and, and when you become all about the numbers and you forget about the, the member quality aspect, that's when your business is gonna start going in the wrong direction.

[00:34:44] Dominique: Yes. Okay. And you also mentioned diversifying your, income streams is very important. You mentioned pro shop, and a bar with [00:35:00] food that was already there, but you guys made the decision to add volleyball and basketball. Mm-hmm. a lot of facilities go with a padel option right now. Why did you choose to do volleyball and basketball instead?

[00:35:18] Matt: So we're, we're kind of in a, in a desert area for, court space. you know, we, we have the space here for pickleball. There are some more, Padel courts going up around us, or at least out here. They're gonna be going up around us. What we really looked at was, what was available for a a u basketball teams.

The a a u volleyball teams practice space, event space. and that was really what it came down to was where could we drive more revenue on rental, pieces And, and, uh. What access could we give? But also part of it too is myself, my wife, [00:36:00] I, I, even the, the owners here, we have a huge passion for youth.

 and I think that's probably 'cause of my days spent at, at the YMCA and working with families and kids. is that, I I'm really, I I absolutely love seeing kids thrive in life and so. What does that mean? That means we have to create an opportunity for them to have social skills and leadership skills and building self-efficacy.

 and really the sports are a tool for that, is what it comes down to. And, and so, again, I grew up playing, playing basketball and baseball and other sports. My wife. she grew up playing basketball and volleyball. She played in college as well. And so when we just sat down and said, Hey, really, how do we wanna make this look and how, what are good revenue streams for us?

It just made sense for us to build a basketball and volleyball here. yeah. On top of the owner and his passion, that, that he has with his kids and, and wanting to play here. and so that was [00:37:00] really where it came from, was a passion for the sport, but also opportunity for for revenue. that came into it.

 we're again, padel it, you know, it's, it's a great sport. I think it's gonna grow and things are gonna happen. but it's not a market that we were wanting to get into. We wanted to have a mix where we could bring families in here, youth in here, and also serve the, the pickleball community with all age, in backgrounds.

So that was really just how the decision was made. 

[00:37:29] Dominique: Understood. Yep. And you guys already have a padel facility in, in Sarasota. Mm-hmm. And, but I, I heard from others that indoor pickleball courts are needed in that area. So that might've been a smart decision. Indoor volleyball courts and, and basketball courts are needed.

That may have been a very smart decision. Do you guys, um. Still have tools like Play Site. I know that was a huge expense. Yeah. [00:38:00] did you guys get rid of that or did you add another performance analysis tool? 

[00:38:08] Matt: Yeah, we did. We did get rid of, play Site. but I actually went with Save My Play. yeah, they, I think Play Site and Save My Play are very similar.

I think they're gonna, they're direct competitors. they're offering a lot of the same stuff. you know, I think both will end up working through and, and, and being able to communicate with Court Reserve, which is our main software that we run. the Save My Play was considerably cheaper. not the cheaper is always better, but for what I saw in comparable, it just, for us, it made more sense.

Where before, yes, the expenses. that was being paid for Play Site. when I found out what, what the contract was at the former company, I just was blown away, of how much was being spent for it. And we were spending nowhere near that amount of money. yep. And [00:39:00] so we actually just got the, the Save My Play cameras installed.

 on our walls, and we were playing with it a little bit yesterday, and the few members that, were watching us and seeing them go up, they were really excited. so I'm, I'm, kind of putting in ways to generate revenue from that as we run tournaments and leagues and do other, other events here. but also creating a, member benefit, from some of these on some of our membership tiers, I think is a, is a good way to go as well.

[00:39:33] Dominique: Absolutely. And I remember when I was there, the owners were incredibly involved in the day-to-day operations. they hired an army of staff, but they didn't let them do their job. talk about your current relationship with the owner, Scott Herman. how involved is he in the day-to-day operations and, [00:40:00] how?

Is, is is there a micromanagement aspect or are you free to do what you wanna do? 

[00:40:10] Matt: No, Scott is a fantastic guy who has many, many different businesses. when he bought this building and he and I had met, it was Matt, you run this as your business. I don't want anything to do with operations. he goes, yes, I own the building.

But you're, you're my CEO, you're my guy. you and your family, you guys run it. Make it sustainable. Make it work. I hope we can build on it and if it's successful, who knows what we can do in the future? Maybe build more. Who knows? and it was a great conversation to have. And, you know, he's, Scott Travels often.

He is in California, New York, Iowa. I mean, he's all over the place. and again, he has other businesses that he is, uh. It has, has more to do with what's [00:41:00] happening on those. And the last thing he wants to worry about is, you know, coming here and having to run, run a business, with, with everything that he's doing.

And so it's a, it is again, something that for him, it's fun to come in and do. I see him every couple weeks. He stops in, we meet, he plays pickleball for a few hours, and, then he is often going on to the next, next adventure. And so, he and I have a great relationship. If we, if he needs me, he calls me right away.

If I need him, I call him right away and, and we just get things done very quickly. It's a great relationship. and I, you know, I, I can truly appreciate the fact that he has trusted so much. in myself and also in my family. but I also think Scott sees, and I don't want to talk for him, but I could maybe say that I could see this a little bit, that, he understands that this is not a job for myself or my wife or my family, that this is our passion, 

[00:41:57] Dominique: right?

[00:41:58] Matt: that, that this is something that we [00:42:00] are fully 110% committed to. to making work. But it's not working at a job, it's working at a family business, and that's what it's turned into. and it's not just my kids and my wife, the family businesses, everybody else I've hired on is that, you know, I, I care about these people.

I wanna make sure that we take care of 'em and make sure that we're doing right. but again, it's, it's, I wanna bring people in that want to tell me how to, how we can do it better. You know, I have great ideas. I have great, great things I wanna share and do. and sometimes I have to make those tough decisions on what we're going to do, but, I want to hear all the feedback and I want to know what other people think we can do bigger and better and, you know, how we can be more successful.

And so again, it's building the right culture and, and, you know, Scott allows me to, to do that. And again, so far it's been very, very successful. It, as far as where we are on our performa and [00:43:00] our budget and, the staff that we brought in, I mean, enough that the old employees who went through a lot wanted to come back because they've heard and seen that it's being ran in a completely different way.

 yes. And when they're here, they're excited and they even talk about how there's just such a different feel than there ever was before. And even the members that you're here. and so it, it's gotta be a complete team effort with trust. And if you don't have trust and transparency, nothing's ever gonna work.

[00:43:29] Dominique: Yes. Yeah. I remember the employee turnover was insane. How I've never seen that many people leave an organization disgruntled and, upset. So the, the way you turn it around that people who used to work there and left disgruntled are now coming back is amazing. So I, I understand why Scott is, is trusting in you.

 let's talk about junior pickleball. You briefly [00:44:00] mentioned that earlier your, your kids play and, currently it's not a big revenue stream, in. Nationally, but, but it's, it's slowly developing. I know you're heavily involved in junior pickleball. Yeah. Can you talk about that, how junior pickleball can be used as a big revenue stream?

[00:44:23] Matt: Yeah. Well, I think for me, it, again, going back to the, the passion aspect. My, my kids, you know, they're seeing them and how they've excelled in the game of pickleball, what it's done for them socially. and my kids are 15, 14, 11, and 10. And, they have social skills that a lot of kids their age don't have.

You know, and I know you played with my daughter, you know, she's 15, you know, and, and she's pretty mature for her age, but her, her capacity to not get too emotional. you know, while [00:45:00] she's competing, especially, I know you guys played in the pro level, you know, when you guys played in the, was it Punta Goda or Yes.

Is that where it was? Okay. Yes. you know, to see her do that at 15, where I know a lot of 15 year olds, I mean, they, they're crying because their hair is not done right. Or so, you know, just, it's something where, you know, all emotions, no matter what age, female or male, it doesn't matter. Um. It is, it's being able to have that capacity to make good decisions, stay grounded, you know, keep yourself centered in what you're doing.

 and pickleball has really done that for 'em and, and also being a very close family. You know, we, we were still kind of old school where we meet and, or I'm sorry, not meet, but we get together every night for dinner, you know, and eat at the dinner table, you know, and have breakfast together or try to as much before I would come to work.

 but, the, the kids really is why we got really into pickleball more than, than most people would. [00:46:00] And, so with, with my kids, they've had an opportunity to travel all over the us. And play in tournaments and compete and build relationships with people that they never would've met. And you know, a lot of people only meet people in their direct community where my kids have met people from all over the world.

 you know, especially the US Open, we have people from all over, all over, different countries coming in there. and so they've really built up on just their, their overall skills of being. a kind of emotionally secure, and again, the, the social aspect of being able to communicate well with adults.

And so, sorry, it's kind of a long answer, but what really drove us into wanting to develop more youth programs here is that there aren't a lot of kids that get that opportunity. Is, is kind of the short answer. And, and the long answer I'd given is that, we wanted to give kids an opportunity to, to thrive and grow.

And so we developed the Pickleball Academy, which is a program that is, sixth grade through 12th [00:47:00] grade. Whether they're brand new or advanced, we wanna work with 'em. that academy will, will be a development program. it's structured where it's two days a week for about two hours each day. And, they'll work with a couple of our coaches and, and really fine tune their game and learn how to play.

Then we have the pickleball Uni, university, which is meant to be an advanced program. it's where it'll be, up to three days a week at two to two and a half hours a day. and those are for kids that have really hit that four oh level and above that want to go and learn more about the professional.

 tournaments around the country. So whether it be in the PPA, the A-P-P-M-I-L-P events, junior nationals, whatever it might be, there aren't a lot of families that can spend a thousand or $2,000 on a weekend or even more to go travel all over the US and play. And so we're hoping that as we get these kids to advance and they want to go play in [00:48:00] tournaments, we would treat it similar to like when an A A U or USAV basketball program or or volleyball program would be.

And, we would take teams that we'd have a coach or a director that would take these kids and help sign them up, take 'em to the tournaments, coach 'em while they're there, you know, have 'em stay together in hotel rooms, and similar like you do with a a u basketball. and if parents wanna go, great.

If not, they have, you know, parental supervision. It's organized, you know, your kids are being supervised. and then they can have that experience of that tournament and when the tournament is done, come back and parents pick 'em up and, you know, go from there. And so really it's a cost effective way that can give these kids some exposure to the tournament life.

[00:48:44] Dominique: Sure, that makes sense. Alright, we have, we're almost at the end, Matt, this has been absolutely phenomenal. I ask every guest this question, you've already. I answered a lot of [00:49:00] it, but if you were to give advice, to a first time facility operator, which it happens a lot now, a lot of facilities are opening up that have either pickle, paddle wellness, or all three recombined.

 if you had to give them advice to stay in business long term and don't, and not go bankrupt after one year. What do they have to do? 

[00:49:32] Matt: Oh, that's a lot. I'll try to summarize best I can, and some of it I didn't answer as we went along here. I would say educate yourself as much as possible. that means calling people.

Take the time to call people and ask the questions and just talk to whoever will talk to you. Um. Go in willing to learn [00:50:00] and make changes. And I know changes can be hard for a lot of people, but understand that new ideas, beyond your own can be great and then learn how to do them correctly. So again, it's that educational piece.

 and then truly give yourself a realistic budget. And again, be very conscious around the revenue. And be very intentional around the expenses, go over on the expenses, how you budget and under on the revenue, and they'll balance, to, to a better surprise. sometimes people put in just wrong numbers and then they get a year down the road and go, wow, I had no idea this was happening or going to happen.

And so as you educate yourself and you learn more about what's really happening, and, and, and, I think the other big part too is, is that. Understand, your community, understand your, the [00:51:00] outside environment, around your business. just because a lot of times what's happening in the pickleball world right now is there are a lot of people that are passionate about the sport and they love the sport, and they take that passion and they try to dump it into a business.

Mm-hmm. And just because we're passionate about something doesn't mean that we're good business people. Mm-hmm. you know, and so it's, now that's gonna go into the hiring piece is that as an owner, sometimes it's best to own something, but then hire the right people on to run your operations. Because I've seen too many businesses that owners have destroyed a business because they are too much involved with operations.

[00:51:45] Dominique: Yes. 

[00:51:46] Matt: And, and so they need to step out of that and allow the staff they've hired on to do what they need to do. And sometimes it's a little bit of a timely process and you have to be willing to take those risks. So 

[00:51:59] Dominique: that sums [00:52:00] it up about Very good. Very good, Matt. that was so valuable. If people wanna learn more about the Pickleball Club, Lakewood Ranch and about the membership options, where can they go?

[00:52:14] Matt: So they can go to our website and it's www dot pickleball club. lwr.com. they can also go on, if they have Court Reserve app, they can find us on Court reserve at the Pickleball Club at Lwr. and then a lot of the stuff that we put up is also on our Facebook page and they just find us at the Pickleball Club at Lakewood Ranch on Facebook.

We do have Instagram and TikTok as well. So all those things get updated, but if not last case, give us a call. We're more than happy to talk and, fill in on whatever, whatever you need to know and come get a tour. This is probably one of the nicest facilities in the country, as far as just how beautiful it is.

 it's not the biggest, but it is absolutely [00:53:00] one of the nicest in the country. 

[00:53:02] Dominique: I would agree with you there. All right, Matt. I, I can't wait to see you again. Thanks for your time. I know you gotta get back to running the club. join us next time on Rackets Biz. 

[00:53:16] Matt: Thank you. 

[00:53:17] Dominique: Don't miss the next episode. And subscribe to Rackets Biz on Apple Podcast and Spotify like us on LinkedIn and Instagram.

See you next week.