Padel, Pickleball & The Future of Racquet Sports: A Deep Dive with Mark McMahon

Today’s guest is Mark McMahon, Founder and President of McMahon Careers. With more than 40 years in racquet sports—as a world-class competitor, tennis pro, director, USTA executive, and now industry-leading search consultant—Mark breaks down what’s truly driving the explosive growth of padel and pickleball, the essentials of community-building, and the business fundamentals every modern racquet sports director must master.

Mark shares the evolution of his career from Melbourne to Boca Raton, his role in launching USTA’s national consulting initiative, and the story behind his highly respected Certified Racquet Sports Executive (CRSE) program. He also speaks directly to facility owners, directors, and first-time operators about avoiding burnout, hiring with clarity, and building sustainable club cultures.

A must-listen for anyone shaping the future of racquet sports.

Key Takeaways

• Why community matters more than the sport itself
  
  
• The truth about whether padel is a fad or the “next golf”
  
  
• What new facility owners misunderstand about business planning and budgeting
  
  
• Why mindset—not just skill set—defines great racquet leaders
  
  
• How to compete with other leisure activities by creating “the third place”
  
  
• The biggest misconceptions GMs have when hiring directors
  
  
• What CRSE grads gain: strategic planning, budgeting, HR, leadership, and more
  
  

Memorable Quote

“The court sizes never change. It’s what happens in and around the courts that really makes the difference.” — Mark McMahon

If you enjoyed this episode, follow Racquets Biz on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, leave a rating, and share it with another racquet sports professional who would benefit from Mark’s insights.

Transcript

Dominique Lemperle (00:01.687)
Hello and welcome. I'm your host, Dominique L'Empereur. Today's guest is Mark McMahon. Mark is the founder and president of McMahon Careers. Recognized and awarded by his industry peers, Mark is acclaimed as an astute and insightful search consultant, education provider, and career coach. Mark combines the disciplines

and dedication of being a former world-class competitor with over 30 years of private club excellence and relevant experience to every search and professional engagement. Welcome Mark to the pod.

Mark McMahon (00:49.9)
Hey Dominique, thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you for the invitation.

Dominique Lemperle (00:55.363)
I'm glad you could make it. We're very lucky to have you today. Thank you for taking the time. So to introduce you to our audience who may not know you from the courts, tell me where you grew up, what records sport you played and what motivated you to become president of your own company.

Mark McMahon (01:17.742)
Well, there's a lot in that question, Dominique, but I think that your listeners today are hearing a couple of different accents, yours and mine, they're at least this point interested in mine. So I grew up in Melbourne, Australia. I had aspirations to be a professional tennis player. In today's vernacular, and maybe for your audience, I was probably undercapitalized at the time, but had big dreams. And sometimes big dreams can take you a long way.

as well. The world stage from a playing perspective was not in my future, but being a teacher and coach of the game for others certainly was. And my first career step, if you will, into the world that I am in today, which is racket sports, was as a tennis professional or teacher, coach for some parts of the world.

And I spent time predominantly in Southeast Florida. My first director of tennis in those days job was in Boca return, Florida. And for the next 23 years, I worked at only three clubs. So I was very fortunate to be around at a time when at least tennis in those particular times was a very popular sport and gave me a lot of opportunities to.

build my craft as a teacher, teacher or coach, if you will, that has always been of interest to me, the education side always of interest, not just trying to help other people be better, but to become better myself. And with that thought in mind, I got very involved in the industry from a development and professional growth or professional development perspective.

I volunteered for my trade association. I wrote articles and in those days you literally wrote them, maybe put them through a printer and sent them off to somebody via a mail, you know, the old snail mail, if you will. But I made a conscious effort to share and to help others try and be better, which in turn certainly challenged myself personally to become better and.

Mark McMahon (03:39.087)
I mentioned a 23 year career plus or minus in the mid 2000s, 2003, 2004. The itch became pretty strong to consider what else may be in my future, but wanting to keep a foot in racket sports. on reflection, I can go back and identify one or two people, one in particular.

who was responsible for me being recruited to the USTA. That was in 2004 and I think I began working with them in 2005. And the charge was to launch a new consulting practice for the USTA at the time. It was called the Tenor Service Representatives, TSRs. Their job was to go out to the marketplace, to clubs and parks and schools and connect the resources

to grow the game of tennis with those facilities and provide guidance, if you will, to advance the game of tennis. So during that next 12 months upon hiring, we in ourselves hired 62 people who were employees of the sections and they became consultants around the country to help grow the game of tennis.

That was a three year project and at the end of 2008, when my role was eliminated, it was like, well, what am going to do now? And that was the genesis for what is now McMahon Careers, a search education and career coaching firm that is designed and its sole purpose is to help employers and to help professionals become better and identify ways to be more successful and meet the needs of their markets.

maybe a little long-winded, but you asked me to cover 40 plus years there.

Dominique Lemperle (05:38.891)
Yes, well said. And the industry is very lucky to have you, Mark. You help racquet professionals not only become successful directors, you also help connect them with the right clubs that are going to be the right fit for them. Now, looking back in your career, tennis was the predominant sport. Tennis was

the the main pro sport, but also the main country club sport in the records industry. now we see new facilities. talking about private facilities, corporate facilities opening almost daily all over the United States. These facilities have pickleball, paddle and wellness. Each facility is a mix of either

Pickleball and paddle or paddle and wellness or just paddle by itself or just pickleball by itself But it's it's booming right now that industry is hot and and paddle is considered the in sport right now now with your 40 years of experience in the industry. What are your thoughts about that? Is it is it a fad like?

potentially racquetball and squash or is paddle the real deal? What do you think?

Mark McMahon (07:07.79)
Well, sometimes I know that from a client perspective, we've had conversations both with employers and with professionals, certainly who've asked that same question. And I think that the first foundational response to that is the 40 years of experience that I have isn't going to be very useful if I don't become very aware and intimately understand what's happening today.

it certainly provides perspective, but we are in a different industry and, I would offer to you that we're in a different world, certainly from a social and socioeconomic perspective today where people are making choices in how they spend their non work time. you know, I think when, when Starbucks first evolved, it was a question of

You've got your workplace, your home place and your third place and Starbucks aspired to be the third place. It's a great question whether or not they've achieved that or maybe they have over the time and maybe they are not doing it all the time, who knows. But the point that I'd like to make is that I think we're in a competition with leisure activities in general. And I don't think necessarily that a Padel player plus one is a minus one on the tennis side.

or vis-a-vis, I think that we have an opportunity today more than ever to attract people who are not just athletically or rackets inclined, but socially inclined to a sport, to an array of sports that provide an incredible opportunity for recreation and community, fun and interaction.

you know, as human beings, we need to commune, we need to interact and nothing does that better than racket sports. So I think, you know, what does Padel offer? It offers a, reminds me of the arenas back in the days, whether it was the gladiators fighting or the football teams playing or whatever it may be.

Mark McMahon (09:28.664)
You've got this, this area that people can get around and socialize and watch and, participate without necessarily being on the court. And, pickleball does can do that to an extent as well. know one client of mine in particular who is got some plans, you know, ultimately to, to create a social, know, dining area, if you will, food and beverage area with pickleball scattered around the outside with.

for that on another level. You know, so it's not necessarily, you know, isolating Padel there and Pickle there. You know, certainly the commercial environments are considering, you know, square footage and return on square foot and so forth. So proximity becomes important, right? And the floor plans become important. But I think an underlying premise for any investor or club owner

Dominique Lemperle (10:00.557)
That's great.

Mark McMahon (10:25.094)
or business minded person that's looking at our industry is to consider what it is they're selling. And it's not the sport in isolation, in my opinion, it's the community and the interaction that you're able to create using one or more of those racket sports as the vehicle. So that would be my thought around this perspective is

Dominique Lemperle (10:50.904)
Yes.

Mark McMahon (10:55.02)
That's very different when I grew up and came through my early years as a teaching professional and a director and a club manager, we were delivering almost isolated sports in different channels, if you will. There was the golf and there was the tennis and there was the aquatics and there was the fitness. And those lines are blending today and no more so anywhere than racket sports.

Dominique Lemperle (11:19.533)
Mm-hmm.

Dominique Lemperle (11:23.853)
That's a good point you're making and I'm glad you brought up golf because that's going to be my next question. Some pundits are saying paddle compared to pickleball is very hard to master or very hard, not so hard to learn, but with the walls hitting the ball off the walls and running back for the lobs and then sprinting up for the next potential drop shot.

Mark McMahon (11:30.19)
You

Dominique Lemperle (11:52.371)
It's the court is bigger. It's not going to take off like pickleball. However, if you look at golf, I've played golf and I have not made much, much progress. it's, it's incredibly difficult. I find, and there's so many nuances to golf as there are to paddle. now if you compare paddle to golf, golf is huge.

Mark McMahon (12:06.136)
Ha

Dominique Lemperle (12:20.599)
generate billions off the course and on the course, has amateurs and pros obsessed with it. And it's incredibly difficult, especially in America. It's extremely popular. What do you think? Is Padale going to be the next golf?

Mark McMahon (12:42.734)
The next goal from a barrier to entry, difficulty to play the sport. Is that the thought?

Dominique Lemperle (12:49.603)
Yes, similar trajectory, similar trajectory as golf. What do you think?

Mark McMahon (12:55.732)
Mm hmm. So I have played a lot of golf. I haven't played in 20 years, least 15, let's say. And I got my handicap down pretty good, pretty low at one point, but it does take an incredible amount of focus and time and energy.

Dominique Lemperle (13:17.805)
Yes.

Mark McMahon (13:20.056)
But to focus on the barrier, the entry, because I think that's maybe one of the questions or one aspect of the question is how likely is Padel to be challenging for people to take up the sport? you know, I think that just like, I say just like pickleball, but the area is smaller, number one.

Number two, when you do miss or you do have a ball that is out of play, you don't have to walk forever to get it. So, you know, these are some of the issues I know that, that people feel about tennis, the racket, the length of the racket versus the point of contact from the body. All of those things make the timing challenging compared to a very slow moving ball, like a pickle ball or a green dot tennis ball or spec tennis or whatever it may be. So I think there are.

certainly challenges with the angles and the rebound of the ball in Padel. I grew up in a time where squash was very popular, maybe having some, you know, resurgence and or, you know, reaffirmation in some parts of the North in the United States, but in other parts of the country, it's never really other parts of the world. It's never really waived. And you've got that ball coming off the back wall, although it's a softball in

in squash. know, the, the Padel ball, you have to learn those moves. And, you know, the hardest thing for me was learning that, you know, someone had an overhead, I didn't necessarily have to run back. I could run forward and wait for it to come off the wall. But those things take time. And I'm not necessarily thinking it's a barrier to entry. And it's going to be something that's going to prevent the sport.

Dominique Lemperle (15:03.224)
Yes.

Mark McMahon (15:13.774)
I think look at the statistics even outside of the United States or in Spain, I believe it's the number one racket sport, the more popular in tennis. That doesn't happen with a sport that's very difficult for the average person to play. I think the socialization and ultimately the athleticism outshines that. I think from an investor perspective, if we kind of circle back to maybe the investor audience, certainly the

Dominique Lemperle (15:22.285)
Yes.

Mark McMahon (15:43.631)
you talk about barriers to entry, you certainly don't need as much land to offer a Padel as a business opportunity of sport and social. You certainly can do it in small, smaller footprints with multiple floors potentially in a building as an example. So I think, you know, it has its own place and maybe it's not necessarily something that I think

maybe has a ceiling because of its difficulty to play, think. Actually, it has every opportunity to be very fulfilling for players who are coming in and taking up the sport.

Dominique Lemperle (16:28.877)
Sure. think golf is so successful because do you still hear me? Mark? No? Shoot.

Dominique Lemperle (16:46.733)
Can you hear me now?

Mark McMahon (16:59.886)
Okay, yep.

Dominique Lemperle (17:00.709)
back.

Dominique Lemperle (17:05.713)
Can you hear me now? Yes? Okay, good. So we'll pick it back up here.

Mark McMahon (17:07.052)
Yep. Yep.

Dominique Lemperle (17:15.655)
So coming back, putting it all into perspective, yes, golf is difficult, but a lot of people play it for the community. It doesn't matter if their handicap is 14 or 2 or 10, doesn't matter. A lot of people play golf because of the community they belong to. And I think the same will be true for Padel.

rackets directors and facility owners have to make sure they create community for whatever facility or club they open. think we both agree on that. Would you agree with that? That community building and a sense of belonging is going to be the number one thing the facility owner or director has to create?

Mark McMahon (18:10.923)
No question Dominic, golf can be incredibly isolating. You spend four or five hours with four people.

right? You where you're out on the golf course with just your foursome and you know, the family can be completely elsewhere, right? Where at least around the rackets facility, you could arguably have multiple members of the same

Dominique Lemperle (18:46.959)
I lost you there, Mark. I couldn't hear.

Mark McMahon (18:51.95)
You are back and it's.

Dominique Lemperle (18:54.351)
I can hear your your audio bars I just can't hear you in the

Mark McMahon (19:01.378)
think your headset is maybe I can yeah I can tell when your headset goes out because there's a different sound in my ear.

Dominique Lemperle (19:03.047)
speakers. Hang on.

Dominique Lemperle (19:11.151)
Okay good now, good now. Better?

Mark McMahon (19:13.752)
Okay, yeah, let's get a clean start with the question then.

Dominique Lemperle (19:19.227)
Yes. So it sounds like community building is crucial. Doesn't matter what sport you have. Pickleball, paddle, golf. The sport may be difficult or it might be hard to learn. But what's most important is that people have a community in which they feel, I belong to that community. So the operator of the facility or the pro

or the director, their main task is to create that strong community where people want to belong to. Do you agree with that statement?

Mark McMahon (19:58.69)
Yes, I think that is something that is ever present for a director or a professional. It's needed at all times. Someone said recently that the court sizes never change. It's what happens in and around and on the courts that really make the difference. And that's where the community comes into play.

Dominique Lemperle (20:20.465)
Correct. It doesn't matter what kind of club you have. I learned that from personal experience. It might look like the Ritz Carlton inside, but if it feels like a graveyard inside, it doesn't matter. If the atmosphere in there is toxic, it's not fun to go there, it doesn't matter what it looks like inside. So I think that's a very important lesson.

facility owners and investors might learn today or anytime.

Mark McMahon (20:54.315)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we, know, as you know, Dominique, we, we run several education programs and we had one of the participants, we have a program that we actually have our participants offer some, some education to each other. And one of our participants was, was talking recently about an exercise that he had participated in, where they were asked to identify from their memory, a good boss and a bad boss.

And they looked at the technical expertise, the emotional expertise of the person and what they remembered most. And it was about the emotional expertise. It was about the ability of that boss, good or bad, to connect with people, to motivate people, to engage people. And being able to set a budget and stay on.

your business plan, it's a critical discipline for any business, but it doesn't stop there. It has to also engage the fact that what you're selling is the nuance of relationship and the value as you've talked about of community where people have a sense that they want to be somewhere, they want to belong. Yeah.

Dominique Lemperle (21:59.889)
Right.

Dominique Lemperle (22:14.117)
Right. That's present in all the sports that we can take that going forward to any facility. So you just referenced the workshop that you led for your students. Were you referring to the CRSE program?

Mark McMahon (22:37.267)
No, actually, was the mastermind group that we run that someone had offered that observation about good and bad bosses. And the actual conversation was around the challenges of leadership. And sometimes it's hard to lead because the decisions you make may not always be popular. They hopefully are correct. They're the right decisions for the majority or for the

the business overall, but there's always going to be outliers to that. And that's what makes leadership so challenging. So that was the emphasis. But you mentioned the CRSE, the Certified Racquet Sports Executive Program, and that's actually more of a focus on what I call the X's and O's or the tackling and blocking, right? It's the fundamentals of running

a small business, a small enterprise. And most rackets facilities, whether they are within a private club or standalone commercial facilities, they are small enterprises. And the principles of running a small business do not change. And I know you know this. One of my opening lines every year with our classes, you could be operating an ice cream shop and the

things that we're going to talk about in the program would apply equally to a retail store or the ice cream shop than they would to a rackets facility. And those do not change. So I'll let that sit, but that is maybe the difference between the processes and the procedures versus the interpersonal skills and the communication that's necessary.

Dominique Lemperle (24:30.661)
Yes, that is very true. We do operate small businesses on different levels. At country clubs, member service and member satisfaction is most important. And in some cases, losing money is part of the business. The capital fees cover those losses.

But for corporate clubs, it's very important that directors stay on budget and are very aware of how they're performing, how they're, are they on budget? Are they, are they excelling? Are they losing money? So they have to keep a constant eye on managing that budget. You have now worked with hundreds of CRSE

graduates CRS meaning certified racket sports executives is that right is that is that title correct and it's a ten month program and you lead them through several modules can you be a little bit more specific what models you offer in that program and what skills is it exactly that most

Mark McMahon (25:37.783)
Correct.

Dominique Lemperle (25:59.385)
CRSE applicants need the most.

Mark McMahon (26:04.237)
Well, I think the first person, least the first trait, if not skill that each professional who wants to lead a program needs is a mindset of a belief that it's an important component of running a program. And that is how to run the business. You mentioned private clubs and commercial clubs and both have parameters that are established around it. The difference in a private club is that it's the value proposition is built around the do structure.

and people belong to a club and see value in paying monthly dues. And a particular department certainly may operate at a loss on, you know, money in money out for what is provided. But a part of that value proposition is being a part of that environment, being a part of that club. You know, the commercial club has a different need and a different, certainly a different investment structure from the outset.

and therefore a different operating principle. you know, there is an expectation of return and, but it doesn't matter what the parameter is, the leader of the department has to meet those expectations. So to your question about the racket sports directors and those that lead programs, our modules interestingly cover what you might look at as a business person who was going to open a club.

and I'll run through them very quickly, but we start with business planning. Who do you want to be? Do you want to be the Mercedes or the Audi of your environment, or are you okay being the Chevrolet or the Honda of your environment? To what degree do you want to deliver? Where do you want to impact the market? Both are necessary.

Right. mean, you need both types of cars. You need all types of clubs, all degrees of service and levels of quality. But setting that business plan of who you want to be, how you're going to deliver against those plans. We start with a foundational business plan. We look at competition. We look at opportunity and threats that exist as any investor would going into an area. We move from there on to

Mark McMahon (28:26.185)
operational budgets, because once we decide who we want to be and how we want to deliver, then we need to figure out, well, how are we going to to finance that? How are we going to have have cash flow? To what degree is it going to cost us to provide what we aspire to to deliver? We move from operational budgets to human resources. You need people. You need to understand certainly the expectations for those people.

How are going to define the roles? What's your organizational chart going to look like? Who and how are you going to train those individuals and help them grow, help them be, attract talent and make them the best they can be. You know, we move from that to a broader concept of from where you are today to where are you going? So we look at strategic planning and the long-term vision against these short-term

business plans and budgets and people, et cetera. We include a module on capital budgeting. So yes, it's great to have a strategic plan, but how are you going to pay for it? Ultimately, how are you going to replace, know, have capital to replace your, your amenities and keep them up to standards so that you're not deferring maintenance all the time. We look at, we have a module on essentially front desk and retail.

You know, it's the information central for most clubs. It's the first person that someone sees when they come into your club is that front desk operation. And very often there's a profit center sitting there in the retail component. We go from there to a general session on leadership and the traits of leaders that are able to take businesses from point A to point

D through points B and C. So we incorporate each of these components into a monthly module. What I leave out communications and we offer a module on personal and professional development because we want the individual themselves. If you're going to deliver the best that is necessary for other people, you need to be able to bring yourself the best that you can be as well. So

Mark McMahon (30:52.854)
It doesn't make a lot of sense to be focused only outwardly. You need to be able to look inwardly and say where and identify where and how you're going to get better as well. So that curriculum was put together in response to the market that was telling us in our search work, we want the skills of our leaders. Our director of rackets, our leadership in the rackets department need to be able.

to bring a broad-based executive thinking approach to running their business. It's not just about the quality of the on-court lessons or the clinics or leagues or tournaments. They're all important, but how is this individual going to interact amongst the leadership team of the club, interact with the board, interact certainly with the general manager? that was the design of the program back in...

2018 and 19, we launched in 2020. So we're proud of that. We were first to market with that type of program. And as you mentioned, next year we should graduate in 2026, our 250th executive. So we're proud of that.

Dominique Lemperle (32:09.413)
Congratulations and I proudly displayed the certificate on my desk and it makes an impact. To me it felt like I received the MBA of the rackets industry mark and I couldn't have gotten that education anywhere else. Right now there are other options available but I'm very happy to

Mark McMahon (32:10.872)
Thank you.

Dominique Lemperle (32:37.703)
to have received that from you and I'm always grateful for the people I met in the program as well. The network that I established in that network still lasts today. Still lasts. It's ongoing and growing.

Mark McMahon (32:54.35)
Well, think Dominique, you speak to something or two things that are critically important. One is it's a commitment for everybody to look to say, can they get better? choosing product A, B or C is really not the point. The point is to identify what you want to accomplish and why, and then do the research, do your diligence and understand

what and how different types of education are going to be meaningful to you in the marketplace. What is going to be desirable within the industry, not just now and in the next three or four years, but beyond. And then number two, there's lots of different ways of learning. The value proposition that we've advanced

Dominique Lemperle (33:42.565)
Yes.

Mark McMahon (33:51.471)
is not just the experts or so-called experts that deliver the curriculum in a live classroom session and participate in small groups and so forth. But what I call the cross pollination, the learning that happens when people get together and communicate with each other in conversation and in dialogue. that builds not just perspective of how other people

approach certain challenges and have achieved certain things. But it also promotes an opportunity for you to build a network that you can call on later. education and participation, no matter what it is or where it is or whom it's through, it's really just about being active and engaged and most importantly, being relevant to what you want to do and how you want to use it.

Dominique Lemperle (34:32.572)
Yes.

Dominique Lemperle (34:51.195)
Yes. So the lesson learned here for first time facility operators or investors is it's important to hire somebody who has the on-court experience. Yes. How to teach lessons, but also that person, if that's the director of rackets or paddle has to have that business background as well. Cannot just be teaching lessons.

eight hours a day and neglect the business background.

Mark McMahon (35:25.88)
Well, Dominique, want to offer, I can, just one other component there, which I think is critically important. And I know some of your audience will be in the commercial club sector, those that are thinking about, know, common playing building or investing in freestanding commercial facilities. And, you know, you go through your design and you go through your engineering and you go through your building plans and you you pay every...

attention and detail to how your club is finished. And then you look potentially for somebody who can lead your club and actually provide the value that you are trying to provide through community and events and so forth. With a less lower degree, a lesser degree of commitment of resources. And I think that

You know, very often the difference between serving a private club and the commercial club is, you know, the question is, how can we get the best person as opposed to how can we get a person for the least amount of money? And, you know, that's, you know, that's almost like my grandmother saying, you know, penny wise and pound foolish, right? Because you are arguably

Dominique Lemperle (36:46.46)
Yeah.

Mark McMahon (36:50.093)
minimalizing or marginalizing the most important aspect of what you are going to claim to deliver, which is a quality experience for your members. So, you know, we're in the search business, so our clients are employers. And I say exactly that. You don't have to pay over the odds, but you need to be mindful of what the market is and be

be responsive to.

Dominique Lemperle (37:21.295)
Yes. And it has to be a well-rounded person at this point in 2025 where we are. They have to be well versed in all racket sports and in the business part of the industry as well as well as the teaching and member service. So being a well-rounded person in all those

sectors is extremely important. Would you say it's more important today than it was 20 years ago?

Mark McMahon (37:59.276)
I think that the need today is a mindset need first and foremost. And I say that because the change has been just at incredible pace lately. And there are a lot of professionals who got, who kind of sat, I'd say they sat on their hands when, even when pickleball became popular and their members were asking for

some access to a sport that they saw at a local YMCA or a public park and their club didn't offer it and they couldn't understand why. And the reality was that, you know, there wasn't someone that was leading that charge on their behalf. There wasn't someone that was being responsive to what a member was saying that they wanted to buy and pay for. Like it was almost like saying that

You know, I'm I'm a, you know, a juice supplier and someone wants orange, but we don't do orange. just do lime and lemon, you know? So we'll, you know, they're going to go find the orange somewhere else. so that has changed that some of it has been a generational change and some of it has been a mindset change. But I think today when you're hiring, you have to be looking for someone who doesn't just have the capabilities for what you need today, but has a mindset.

Dominique Lemperle (39:01.862)
Yeah.

Dominique Lemperle (39:07.195)
Right.

Mark McMahon (39:24.983)
to be open to what you might need tomorrow. And we can't possibly know what that is. We can only look back five years and, you know, unless we looked across the Atlantic or maybe South America, we didn't know that Padel existed. And all of sudden it's quote the new thing. So it doesn't take.

Dominique Lemperle (39:28.838)
Right.

Dominique Lemperle (39:45.671)
Correct.

Mark McMahon (39:52.01)
long view to go back and look at the changes that have taken place so quickly. I think mindset is the most important.

Dominique Lemperle (39:59.719)
mindset and when you go into these clubs and the general managers and search committees hire you to bring them the best ten candidates what or even more than that forty fifty best candidates and then they filter down to the best one what do you see what are some general misconceptions

general managers and search committees have about the record industry right now and how do you educate them and set them straight?

Mark McMahon (40:41.451)
Well, to start with, if we bought them 50, we would probably get five pretty quick. So our role is first to help an employer, a club assess what they need and define that. And we help them through that. And I'd like to think we do it as good as it can be done. You we have quite a process of discovery, we call it.

to help a client really define it. And most importantly, particularly with a search committee, to provide all the stakeholders a real opportunity to provide input to that. And as a result of that exercise on the front end, you create what I kind of frame a North Star, because that North Star is going to be important to keep in mind as you do winnow down that list of potential candidates. And we typically will put some number and it is, you know,

depends on the job, number of applicants that are qualified, you know, arguably it could be, you know, anywhere from eight to 10 candidates, let's say a short list, if you want to call it that. And all of the various, you know, items that would support those candidates in front of a client. And then we would explore that with the client to have them ultimately identify who they might want to then spend time with in much deeper conversation.

and different circumstances. So, you you're on site interviews, if you will. And I think that the misconceptions, we try and take care of those at that very early stage. And the biggest misconception, I think, is how someone, how a club or we'll just say a general manager, just for argument sake, how a general manager expects a director to spend their time and how a general manager expects the director to generate

their own personal compensation. And tennis and golf have a commonality that can be confusing, unlike, let's say, the director of food and beverage or the controller or the director of grounds, where there is some compensation for running the department, we'll call that a base salary, and then some compensation that is derived from services that are delivered.

Mark McMahon (43:05.227)
right, like instruction, lessons, programs, clinics, we'll call that variable compensation. So you've got this base and variable, and very often there's a misunderstanding as to what the amounts are. A general manager understands the base clearly because it sits on the P &L, it's a part of the budget. The variable, there's very often a flow through of that, it comes into the department and goes out and there's some maybe costs that's involved, certainly cost.

to have that go through the club's payroll system. So there's some amount that is retained, but then that is paid out. And there's very often a lack of clarity around that. And sometimes a general manager will say that a job is worth X amount of money and we'll just ask a question. Well, let's walk through how that is going to be generated. And if the base is X and the variable is Y and

we come up with Z, Z can be very different. know, the manager might think it's $300,000 and in reality it's $100,000. So there's a huge gap there and it happens less and less now, but it's still a confusing point because very often the thought will be, well, the professional can make their money teaching. And then the question is, well, how much do you want them teaching?

Dominique Lemperle (44:28.039)
Hmm.

Dominique Lemperle (44:31.835)
Mm-hmm.

Mark McMahon (44:32.115)
or not too much because they've got to run the department, know, maybe five hours, 10 hours a week, couple of hours a day. Well, where's the compensation going to come from? And that can be a really important moment because it provides clarity around the expectations and around the resourcing of that role. And those jobs last longer. The tenure of those pros, you know, we know stories where pros go in and

12 months in there starting to scratch their head and two years in there looking for a new job because it's not providing them with the compensation that they expected. I think clarity and transparency around that is critical. We started posting compensation ranges a couple of years ago. We're the only

Dominique Lemperle (45:04.742)
Right.

Mark McMahon (45:24.439)
company that was really doing that, the only firm that was doing that. And we got some pushback from some employers at first. And once it was talked about, the reality of it is there is an understanding of that. If the market is one that you need to compete in, then compete in a transparent way. And we see great success with that. And conversely, I think it can be also good for the club in the long term because

then they've got understanding, they've got clarity around what this role really means from a value proposition to its members.

Dominique Lemperle (46:04.591)
Yes, yes, thanks for clarifying that. That happens frequently and then pros, unfortunately, after a few jobs like this might experience burnout and say, I've had enough, I work my butt off and I just don't see the benefits of working in this industry. Then they might follow the trend that's currently

Mark McMahon (46:24.525)
Mm-hmm.

Dominique Lemperle (46:34.043)
happening of opening their own facility and either teaching there or becoming a part owner or running it as a general manager. Now, and I ask every guest this question, what advice do you have for first time facility operators who open their own

facility, let's say they follow the trend and open a paddle and pickleball facility in a warehouse. What advice do you have for them so they don't go bankrupt after one year?

Mark McMahon (47:20.037)
Well, bankruptcy is a big step. I think the realization that you don't have a viable business would be horrible mindset to have to be faced. So I'd say that the number one thing would be to measure twice, cut once.

And that is the meaning of course is to to really validate and read validate your business plan your your set of expectations your set of assumptions If anyone's ever renovated a house You know you get your quotes and you add 50 % because if you don't you're gonna get a pretty rough surprise during your innovation project and and I think that

the real, the expectations sometimes can be very different than the realization of, or the reality, if you will, of what it takes to change behavior. and, and that is maybe you go into an area that is devoid of, of a facility. There's a great need for it. All of your metrics say, you know, from, you know, average incomes and, you know, the, geography around the club and

the use cases in other communities of similar types and so forth. All of the metrics are great, right? They say this is a great place to build Club X. And maybe it is. And assuming that there's attention paid to what we've already talked about, which is not just the finish of the amenities, but the quality of the people, assuming you have all that in place, once you're up and open and your metrics prove true and the doors are open and everything's going great.

That's when the work starts because now you're talking about retention. Now you're talking about the nuances or the nuance of being a club operator and meeting members needs in an ongoing fashion to my point earlier where the member says, I want orange juice and you have lemon and lime only. Well, you go get orange. Well, now they're to want grapefruit and that's okay because they're the customer. Now.

Dominique Lemperle (49:17.127)
Bye.

Mark McMahon (49:41.793)
You may say, I'm not, I'm not a grapefruit guy. don't serve that at my club. That's okay. But you know, you may not be able to retain that member who wants the grapefruit juice. So the hard part is, is the flexibility and the adaptability. And sometimes you've got to be Steve jobs. Sometimes you've got to say, I'm going to do this, even though you don't know you need this yet. You're right. You've got to, you've got to evolve and you know, maybe, you know, I'll just pick an example.

Dominique Lemperle (50:04.742)
Right.

Mark McMahon (50:10.68)
you have a multi-purpose facility, maybe on Sundays at 5pm, you're using that facility for something else that you hadn't envisioned when you opened the doors. Don't be such a purist that you are not looking potentially at the realities of, again, what your market might be telling you. So I don't know that there is a cookie cutter answer to the question, except again, just like the leader of the department, you've got to be flexible and adaptable.

think the owner needs to be mindful that the starting point is just that. It is the starting point. And I would say the same thing to a professional who is listening or watching is when you go into a job, that's what it is today. If circumstances, member expectations, the competitive environment, if those things change, the economy, if those things change,

The likelihood is that your job will change as well. And that's sort of the modern reality of our world.

Dominique Lemperle (51:11.26)
Yes.

Dominique Lemperle (51:17.831)
So to sum it up, you're saying be prepared with a solid business plan and be flexible, be ready for change. Would you, would you, yes, yes, okay. Would you help if there's some professionals out here who feel motivated to start their own facility, to become first time facility operators or go into business? Is this something you would help them with?

Mark McMahon (51:27.702)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dominique Lemperle (51:46.895)
establish a business planning and guide them along the way.

Mark McMahon (51:51.117)
Hmm. Well, I would tell them to identify someone who is really good at doing that. I think that my degree of expertise would be defining what those needs are going to be. Building business plans is not what I do. That's not who I am today. And it's not something I think that I'm the best at. I think there are other people.

that are very good at doing that. But I think that my value, Dominique, is the conversation with someone around why they're going where they're going or why they think they want to go in that direction. know, I think my expertise has evolved to a place that sits prior to that decision-making time.

where professional or any individual might be thinking about it. And I'm not necessarily the supporting metrics person, but I could certainly point out the metrics to look for. But before that even is, what are the life and professional reasons that this is sounding like the right thing for you? I think that would be the conversation that I would have with someone.

Dominique Lemperle (53:00.369)
Sure.

Dominique Lemperle (53:14.703)
Yes, and how would you, how can they reach out to you Mark to get that advice?

Mark McMahon (53:20.826)
McMahoncareers.com McMahoncareers.com Yeah, that's, that's easy. And, yeah, they can, they can certainly find me at that point.

Dominique Lemperle (53:23.579)
Okay.

Dominique Lemperle (53:32.963)
Anything else that you think we should add to this conversation before we go today?

Mark McMahon (53:41.737)
I, I, well, besides tuning into your other episodes, I would, I would say to your audience is to continue to explore in the way that you are exploring now. You're learning and you're growing by, tuning into Dominique, tuning into, to racket spears. And I think that, that learning that, that education, it doesn't need to be, you know, some, some, you know,

university course or a series of books or what you have to travel across the country for conferences and so forth. Those are all good things to do. But they're not the those things are not the only way that we can get better. I think the way we get better is is, you know, looking inward first, what do I need? What makes sense for me? And then

what opportunities are out there. it's, you know, it's the playing field has never been more even in terms of accessing information and knowledge and understanding. And on top of that, then you stack all of those things with the people of this industry. have an incredibly generous industry, meaning that the people in it are very generous with their time. So it's, it's, it's unlikely that you would maybe reach out to someone and say, look, I'd like to ask you a question and

Dominique Lemperle (54:58.757)
Yes.

Mark McMahon (55:06.156)
you're gonna get turned down. I don't see that happening too often.

Dominique Lemperle (55:10.339)
I agree with you and and you're part of that industry mark and we're very lucky to have you I was very lucky that you said yes today to today's podcast and Thank you again for your time. I know you got clients waiting and I again appreciate your time and I can't wait to do this again. Maybe in a year or so

Mark McMahon (55:34.85)
Thank you, Dominique. My pleasure.

Dominique Lemperle (55:37.575)
See you soon. See you next time on Racket's Biz.

Mark McMahon (55:38.744)
Bye bye.