EP 09 Paralympian Ellen Keane on Winning Gold, Self-Worth & What Comes Next

Winning a Paralympic gold medal is supposed to be the happy ending… but for Ellen Keane, it was only part of the story.

From becoming Ireland’s youngest Paralympian at 13 to winning gold in Tokyo, Ellen shares what we don’t see - the pressure of being “the good girl”, the mental crash after big highs, and the loneliness that can follow even your proudest moments.

We talk identity, self-worth, and the voice in your head that can be your biggest critic. Ellen opens up about growing up with a limb difference, learning to stop hiding, and building a mindset rooted in self-belief... even when it feels “delusional”.

We also get into the reality of what comes next: retiring, losing a sense of identity, and having the courage to start again - stepping into media and using her voice for disability advocacy and representation.

This is a conversation about resilience, reinvention, and being kinder to yourself along the way.

Transcript

Welcome And Meet Ellen Keane

Diana 0:07

Hello there and welcome to the Delusional Optimist, the podcast about fresh starts, new beginnings, and navigating the messy middle of life. If you're new here, each week I sit down with someone who is building or has built their dream to talk about the highs, the lows, and everything in between. My guest today is someone who truly embodies that journey and someone I have admired for a very long time, and I felt so honored to have her in my home for an afternoon to record this beautiful conversation. Ellen Keane is a Paralympic gold medal-winning swimmer, broadcaster, and disability advocate. Born with her left arm missing from below her elbow, Ellen has spent her life not just achieving incredible things in the pool, but quietly redefining what strength and resilience really look like. But this conversation isn't about medals or moments on the podiums. It's about what it takes to keep going when things get hard, to push through when both your body and your mind are asking questions and to show up anyway. We talk about staying honest with yourself, the pressure of representing something bigger than your own story, and the discipline of showing up even when it's uncomfortable. We also talk about the importance of being authentically yourself and loving yourself unconditionally, and we explore a feeling so many of us know of needing to start over, letting go of old identities and expectations, and finding your way back to yourself. I really hope you'll enjoy this conversation. This is Ellen Keane.

Diana 1:39

Ellen Keane, welcome to The Delusional Optimist. Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here, to be physically here as well. Yeah, you're in my house. How are you?

Ellen 1:49

Oh no, I'm I'm downstairs. Diana's upstairs. This is very funny.

Diana 1:53

You've taken over Steve's studio.

Bolivia Trek And Unexpected Friendship

Ellen 1:55

I never auditioned for X Factor, so I feel like this is my moment. I feel very inspired right now sitting here.

Diana 2:00

Can you sing?

Ellen 2:01

Can I sing? This is actually a really funny story. I did the Uncharted with Ray Goggins when I went to Bolivia with Ashton Thompson. Basically, what we did there is we did like this really hard expedition. What do you call it an expedition? We had to do a trek basically. And we were going up this Inca Trail and then we had to summit this mountain, and it was eight days of like really, really, really, really hard stuff. But how I survived was I just kept singing. And anytime someone like said something, I was able to like take that whatever they said and find it in a lyric in a song, and I would just keep singing. But when the show came out and when the show aired, not a single clip of me singing, and I was so annoyed. And I said it to the producer, I was like, What happened to all my singing? And he was like, No, Ellen, we couldn't do that to the public.

Diana 2:48

Well, somebody who clearly did not and was not offended was your singing is Ashing because you got quite a good friendship out of that show.

Ellen 2:54

Yeah, oh my god, I love that girl so much. The thing about the show is you don't know who you're gonna be with until maybe like a few weeks before. When I found out I was with Ashing, like I being a woman in sport, I've come across her like a couple of times, but I didn't really know her. Ashing is this like beautiful girl covered in tattoos and plays kamogi. So like she can come across kind of scary sometimes. So the thought of having to share a tent and spend all of my time with her for eight days kind of was scary. But then as soon as I met her in the airport, we bonded straight away. She's terrified of flying, and then I realized she's just a big softie, and I'm actually like probably more hard than Ashling. It's a funny thing because when you go through an experience where something is like kind of traumatic, you do like trauma bonding, yeah, and everything was just so funny. So even though it was like actually horrible, it was just so funny. Like at times we were rationing off a modium. Like, if you had a modium, you were you had a lot of gold. Do you know what I mean? But just the whole experience was so deliriously funny. But like the friendship I got from doing that show, like I would go to the ends of the earth to be and spend time with Ash and Thompson because she's just has such a heart of gold, and I feel like she's like exactly the same with me. And even if we didn't have a good time on the show, which we did, at least we have this amazing friendship from it.

Diana 4:18

I love to hear that. Like something beautiful came out of something that initially was scary. And I love when people's exterior and interior are mismatched. So, you know, the way you said, like, you felt like she was gonna be like a tough girl and you weren't sure how you were gonna bond and gel. And I love when you actually discovered that you know, you can't really judge a book by its cover, right? Like she expresses herself with her tattoos, but deep down inside she's a real softy and a girly girl.

Ellen 4:44

And yeah, like there was one time as well, because like like I'm a Dublin girl, I'm a I'm a city girl, and I had never done like this is so embarrassing to admit, but before the Bolivian trip, I'd never done a wilder wee or a wilder poo. And I was like, I was so nervous. The first time I remember day one of filming, and obviously, like there's no toilet. So I was like, like, Ash, what do I do? And then like Ray would be like, Oh, just go off and then like get your walking stick and like poke around in the bushes to see if there's any snakes. And I was like, sorry, what?

Diana 5:15

I would have bought in my wee's and poos for it the whole eight days.

Ellen 5:19

Well, so at times you had no choice because it just wasn't moving. I thought enough. But she uh I I literally had to go off and because me and Ash also were the only girls, there was no other female on the on the crew. So like she would like stand guard, and it was we became very I think that's how we bonded was literally because one of us was peeing or pooing on stage, and we had to like protect the other person's privacy and be like, you cannot go here. So yeah, we became very close very quickly.

Diana 5:52

I can understand how that had happened. I don't think I could have survived an environment like that. I think I would have got stage right.

Ellen 5:58

Do you know what? I my whole career I've had to pee in a cup in front of people for drug testing, so I wasn't really afraid of that. And I think just as an athlete, you kind of just get used to things.

Diana 6:06

I did not envision that our opening chat on this podcast would be excreting digestive food in the wilderness.

Public Labels And Proving Yourself

Ellen 6:17

Enjoy the talk, but I welcome it. Well, do you know what I before we came on to the pod, you and I had talked about like what people perceive you as, yeah, and kind of maybe the image that's been created because of like the experience that you've had in media so far. And growing up, like I obviously had been an athlete from a very young age, so that's kind of the image that has always stayed with me. So people like oftentimes just think of me as like, oh, like I hate to say it, but like the sweetheart of paraswimming was kind of like the words that were were thrown around. And like other people would be like, no, she's disgusting. And I'm like, actually, this is the true me.

Diana 6:59

Were you ever resentful of that title, the sweetheart of paralympic swimming? Because I feel like when you're labeled or put in a box and that label keeps getting thrown your way, it can become a little bit just a sticking point that kind of irks you a little bit.

Ellen 7:14

Um, do you know what? It probably would have been a lot more difficult when so I I went to my first Paralympic Games when I was 13. So I was very much a child. Then my second Paralympic Games, I was 17, I was still a child, and I had like chaperones everywhere I went, and and very much had people not like I I wasn't like micromanaged in the way, but I had people like minding me and I had a minder because I was a child, which is very acceptable. But then there's like once you become 18 and you become an adult, as a person who's been a child athlete, like it's very hard to step into being an adult and step into like people maybe being able to look at you as an adult and being able to understand that you're making decisions, or even that, like I always say, like between games, I have I've had so many different personalities, I've been like a completely different person in each games. So there probably was a time between maybe when I was like 20 maybe after Tokyo, like from 25 to 30, I would have been like, I want people to see the real me, I and all of this. But now as I'm 31, I'm kind of like I'm really grateful for the image that was portrayed of me because I do think deep down that's who I am, and I am very mindful, and like a lot of what I do now, I'm very aware of kids, and I'm very aware of education, and I'm very aware of being a role model, and I think it's really important to be a role model. I think when you are an athlete, unfortunately, there is also that responsibility that you have. Now, not a lot of athletes step into that space, but when you're a person with a disability, you kind of have to recognize that not a lot of people with disabilities get the chance to be in the media and get the chance to be heard. So it's really important to step into that role modela. And there's there's not a lot of like I would have been so careful to not post photos of myself with a drink in my hand on my social media and little things like that. But like now I'm a little bit more relaxed, but I'm just glad that there's not a lot of that out there of me. Although if you go onto my Facebook from when I was like 14, I'm probably saying the most ridiculous things in my statuses. So yes and no. And I think maybe the only kind of thing that I would struggle a little bit more now is if I was to meet people, like I'm single. So like if I was dating, it's like what who who do have has this person already decided who I am before they've met me? Do they think I'm like this goody two shoes? Are they gonna give me a chance to actually show my personality and who I am? That's kind of the annoying side of it. But then at the end of the day, if they're not gonna give me an opportunity to show them who I am, then they're probably not my person.

Diana 10:02

Do you feel like you've spent your whole life trying to prove yourself? To show people that you're capable, to show people that you can still win medals, compete, do better than you did the last time.

Ellen 10:14

It's a weird one. It's I've never felt the need to prove it to other people. It's kind of been proving it to myself, like throughout my whole sporting career. That's like when I why I retired when I did, because I knew I'd done everything that I wanted to do, and I knew that there was nothing left. I knew if I walked away from sport, I'd have no regrets, and I don't. But that was always my motivating factor throughout my whole career, and the reason why I didn't quit when things got hard, and the reason why I didn't quit when uh things weren't going to plan is because I knew deep down I was capable of winning a gold medal. So that's why I think it to have that intrinsic motivation is so important because if you let extrinsic motivation be the thing that kind of gives you that feedback, like I think that's a lot of pressure, and it's other people's idea of you and other people's perception, and it's really hard to emotionally connect to if it's not your own goal. But I'd say so, in the world of sport, no, that's always been me trying to prove it to myself, yeah. Um, and then in the world of like society, yeah, like I I can get very stubborn when people think I can't do something, and that just goes back to like being born with a disability of only having one hand. It's a weird one because like I know people generally mean well, but it just really pisses me off when if someone were to ask me if I need help, I would I would say no, because nine times out of ten, I wouldn't need help. Like that wouldn't bother me if someone asked if I needed help because I'm like, oh, they probably just think I need help, which is fine, and they're being polite 100%. It's when they constantly ask if I need help. Yeah. And after I've said no, and I'm like, that that sort of thing is when I'm like, I need to prove myself. Or and I I think it's a girl, a female thing as well. Like, if we were to go to the gym and like be surrounded by all these men who are like, oh, she can't do a pull-up sort of thing. And then you go and you do a pull-up and they're like, oh my god, I can't believe like there's so many. If you look online, there's so many videos of like girls doing workouts and guys in the background just being like, at first they're checking the girl out, but then in the background they're actually like, Oh, she's lifting a lot of weight there. And the shock. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But even like the other day, I was in what what is it? Like, I feel like I'm hating on men here, but it was just an experience I had the other day. I was in a sports shop and I was looking for a right-handed golf glove, and this random man just came over and was like, Why are you looking for a right-handed golf club? Like, everyone has left uh wears them on their left hand, and then he proceeded to show me how to do a golf swing. You're just kind of like, No, sir. Why are you underestimating one why I need something? And two, my ability. Yeah. Yeah, like go to it. Did you s what did you say? Did you say something to him? I just gave him a dirty look. But do you know what? I wish I was better. I actually like that's one of the things that I want to get better at. I'm getting better at standing up for myself in like situations with people I know, but standing up for myself to strangers, I'm not very good at.

Diana 13:20

Do you think because you have a public persona and you're recognizable, you don't want to become the angry former Paralympian who is now, you know, you don't want to be- I think that would be so funny.

Ellen 13:31

It would be so funny.

Diana 13:32

Look at Ellen King go rogue. That's what I mean. Are you worried that people are gonna be like, oh my god, did you see Ellen King and like eat the head off that man? Like, are you worried about that side of things? Is that why you're not good at doing it externally?

Ellen 13:44

No, I think people would respect me more if I did that. So then what stops you putting people in their place when when they're clearly being disrespectful or wrong or I think it's still like that little girl inside of you who is afraid of of superiority. And I think like it's so hard, and like I was always a people pleaser, and I think there's still like that little thing inside of me that is the people pleaser who's afraid of authority. So, and obviously, like the male figures have always been seen as superior to females, so like that will always be like an authoritative thing that I have to work on. So I think it's more that I don't think it has anything to do with like what people actually think of me. Because if I actually cared what people thought of me, I wouldn't go outside wearing the clothes that I sometimes wear.

Diana 14:33

I love your clothes, you have a fantastic sense of style.

Ellen 14:37

I will wear shorts and a trench coat going to the gym with Ugs on. Like, that's my style. I dress like Adam Sandler, that's what I dress like. He's goal. Moving on.

Diana 14:48

I want to take it back in time to the age of 12, 13 when you were prepping for your first Paralympics. And I want to know if you felt the weight of the world on your shoulders during that time because you were doing something absolutely extraordinary. Like you were one of Ireland's youngest, or how or were you Ireland's youngest uh competitive athlete at the time?

Ellen 15:11

I was Ireland's youngest ever Paralympian in Beijing, and then so I was 13 in Beijing, and then they brought in a rule after that that the youngest and athlete can be going to a games is 14. So I will always hold that title.

Diana 15:26

That's and that's one that you should be proud of. Um but that is such a such a young age, and I know that you'd been swimming and competing and for a couple of years before before that, so you were already very dedicated and probably had like a professional attitude towards your sport and your field. But what are you thinking at such a young age going into such a big big it's such a big event, such a big deal? Like how are you keeping yourself together? Did you have an adult head on on child shoulders? Like what was what was going on through your mind during that time?

Ellen 16:00

I just like kids are so cool because kids don't feel the pressure. Kids are so naive and kind of can live in this bubble. And it's only when well I I'd say it's probably different now because of social media and people having ac kids having access to so much social media, but back when I was 12, 13, that didn't exist. So I didn't have to listen to other people's opinions a lot. Um, and so I was just so naive, I was pretty happy out. I loved swimming, I loved my sport, I loved competing, and I loved every time I raced, I loved it so much. And I I actually I I was in first year of secondary school, and I I was more stressed out about my summer exams than I was about like the potential of the games, and I was so stressed out about like no wait for it. I was so stressed out about my um exams that I actually got appendicitis and I missed my summer exams because my appendix burst and I was in hospital for like a week and then I wasn't allowed to train for like maybe five weeks after that. So like my I wasn't allowed in the water because I had stitches, and then I my form of training was actually like cycling on a bike. So I was basically doing like my my lockdown training when I was 13. I was prepping for like the 2020 season. Um and then when I went to the games, it it definitely changed something in me. When I went to the games itself, I had a chaperone, but I was I was like a kid, just with my sides in the clouds, my what is it, stars in the clouds or something. I was just loving it so much. It was like Disneyland to me. And but I had to grow up, like I had to, I had no choice. I was part of this team, I was a 13-year-old and I was surrounded by adults, and this was a job, and I had to be an adult and act like an adult and be an adult, and that's a lot to ask of a child. And so when I came home, it was actually so like the games itself, I didn't I had a great time. I came sixth in a final and like I just it was the most amazing experience of my life. And when I came home, that's when I really struggled because I went from swimming in front of I think uh I think Beijing, the water cube was 18,000 people capacity, and then obviously streaming it worldwide as well. But then I came home to second year and just having to go into an all-girls secondary school, which is scary as as it is, and I I had missed like a couple of weeks as well, and I just went from being in this on top of the world to then just being like a regular teenager, but it's a really hard transition because you're you're an adult with a full-time job, but then you're also a child, so it's it's a really hard place to navigate. And I think like in hindsight, I always say if I could change one thing about my career, it would be I didn't go to Beijing because no matter how much I enjoyed it, like that. I didn't go to a world championships or European championships before that. I Beijing was my first big major, and then I came home from that and had to do like local club galas, and I found it really hard to motivate myself, and I just like everyone, and that's because I'd been to Beijing, everyone had been talking about this potential I had, and I just was this kid who just wanted to go to underage discos with her friends and stay up late, and you know, and also at that age as well, your body is changing, like you're going through puberty, so girls tend to put on a bit of a bit more weight, and especially in the pool, you are trying to find your balance in the water, and my I wasn't finding the balance in the water, and I just like dramatically was getting slower, I wasn't getting any faster, and then I really struggled, like I really struggled with that, and then because the Paralympics is for people with disabilities, I then had to, anytime someone was like, Oh my god, you went to the Olympics, I was like, No, I didn't go to the Olympics, I went to the Paralympics, and they'd be like, What's the difference? And then I'd have to talk about having a disability. So, and that's something that I wasn't comfortable with at the time, and I was really ashamed and embarrassed of having a disability. So I just didn't talk about my sporting career. I had like two different boxes, I was like two different people, and I just like I had so much shame around my sporting career because it meant I had to acknowledge being disabled. And when you are suppressing something like that so much, it doesn't have a good effect on your mental health. So, like, I yeah, I really struggled after the games for years with my mental health.

Diana 20:37

So, when did the turnaround happen then? When did you start becoming proud of how amazing you were and your talent and your skill and the thing that you dedicated so much of your time to? Like, when when did that change? If you if you were so ashamed of it for such a long time, there must have been a turning point where you were like, Okay, actually, this is kind of cool, and I'm doing something out of the ordinary, and you know, I have to be proud of myself.

Training The Mind With Self-Talk

Ellen 21:05

Yeah, so Beijing was 2008, and then in 2010, I went to a boarding school after my junior cert. I went to a boarding school in England for two years, and it was the most amazing experience of my life because it was a the school itself was like a swim school, and I got to train with a girl, Lauren Steadman, who looks exactly like me with a disability, and there were other people on the team who were representing Team GB or other countries who were training in this school, and it was the lead up to London 2012 as well. So you had so much access to what was going on in the lead up to London 2012. And the first year I was there, like I just fell in love with swimming again, and I I loved the high performance aspect of it. I had these amazing friends, but then what happened was like when people finish school, they leave, so there was a lot. Of people who are like in their final year of school, and then they left for my second year. There was probably only three people left from the original squad that I was in, and then because of that, the coach like ended up getting like a hip operation, I think. And so we got a new coach. So everything was so different for the second year. And then I kind of fell back into the I'm really struggling here. And then I went to London 2012, had an awful game, really struggled with it. Came home from that. And I spent one more year with my club, and I was kind of like, I need to change. Something needs to change here. So when I came back to Ireland, and then in 2013, I changed club and I started swimming with a different club. And I had a coach who like kind of gave me permission to start again. So the pressure was kind of taken off, and I was allowed to be a beginner again, and that really helped. But the first time that I really started to feel proud about it, oh god, was probably after Rio. So like in the lead up to Rio, I started to get really I started to like have really bad thoughts again. And I kept telling myself, this is my third games. If I don't achieve something here, like how can I justify myself as an athlete? And this was all of the negative self-talk that I was saying to myself. So I wasn't going to perform well because like I was telling myself I wasn't going to perform well, and I was putting all of this pressure on myself. And then it just so happened that those games, Russia, had been banned because of their doping scandal and not having an anti-doping system in place. So the number one in the world at the time in my event was Russian. So she was gone. So there was like this opportunity here that had never been there before. And I ended up winning my bronze medal, and all I felt like you would think after years of training that you would feel so much pride. Like all I felt was relief. Like I felt like the only emotion I could feel was relief and then emptiness. Like it was just it was it. I like was so burnt out and so exhausted from all of it. And I came home and I I saw a sport, I saw a clinical psych, and I just started telling him everything that I was feeling and thinking. And he said, I think it sounds like you hate swimming and you need to quit swimming. And I was like, I can't do that. And then he was like, Well, like, what other choice do you have? And I was like, No, I can't do that. Like, there's more here. I just need to get better. I need to like look after my head and look after my thoughts. And that's kind of what I started working on was my my the the conversations that I was having with myself. But the benefit of winning a Paralympic medal was I came home and I met with this agent that I knew. I said, How can I how can I do good with this? And he couldn't work with me at the time because there was a conflict of interest, but he introduced me to my agent who I have now, and I still have to this day. So I met my agent Sinead in 2016 after the Games, and I said three things to her. I was like, I want to help grow Paralympic sport in Ireland, I want to change perception of people with disabilities in Ireland, and I want to go on dancing with stars. Those were my three things that I really wanted to do. But it was it was when I had the medal, and it shouldn't really get to the point of having the medal for this to happen, but people started to believe in me a bit more again, and I started to get sponsors, and I started having like I had sponsors, I was working with Sky, I got a Sky scholarship, I was over time, I was with Allianz, I was with City, I was with Toyota, and all of these people believed in me. And it was like, wow, if all of these people believe in me, I need to figure out a way of believing in myself again. And that was like the most important tool or the most important muscle that I needed to tr to train. It was my brain, it was my self-talk, it was looking after myself and trying not to let other people's negative thoughts into my head. And honestly, like I think that's why I love the name of your podcast because like you actually have to be delusional. Like, that's the only way to succeed is to be so delusional that no one can deny you of something. Because the more that you say something good is going to happen, it mightn't be what you expect to happen and it might take time, but something good will happen. It sounds silly, but like I would I would start telling myself before a race how amazing I was, and I would in a training session, I would talk to myself and I'd be like, You got this, you got this. This is hard, but this is temporary. And it's so funny because I'm a coach on Arlen's Fittest family, and I didn't really know what my coaching style would be, and I didn't really know what would come out of my mouth, but that's exactly the sort of stuff that was coming out of my mouth when I was screaming at these families, and I was like, pain is temporary, and it's just those little things because it it works like the the mind is the most powerful muscle that you can train, and it was something that I wasn't working on. And I think that's something now it is definitely changing in sport, but I think that's something that needs to be looked at a bit more across all walks of life with young people because there's so much pressure on, and again, going back to social media, like there's so much pressure to be perfect on social media, there's so much pressure to have followers on social media, there's so much pressure to do well in school, to do all of this, to be successful. But sorry, I think the most successful people in the world are the people who love themselves and are kind to themselves and are able to like look in the mirror and like if a bad thought comes in, being like, oh no, that's silly. That's silly of me to think that. And like optimistic people and the people who back themselves, I think they're the most successful people. And we need to get better at teaching people how to do that because you can feel silly. Like, sorry, when I first started, like I was when people were like, How did you win your gold medal? And I'd be like, Well, actually, I kept telling myself how phenomenal I was like, that's so embarrassing to admit. And the music I'd listen to as well is all like really motivating. I can do that, like it's so it's so American, it's nearly like you know that attitude that Americans have of but guilty, but there's a reason why there's an American the American dream and why anything is possible over there.

Diana 28:33

It's because as much as we can laugh at that attitude and it can sound a bit naff, and who do you think you are? It literally works if you practice, if you practice it every single day, speak to yourself, you know, in that way every single day. You do you can reframe your thought process. You are what you think. Yeah, you are what you think, exactly.

Ellen 28:54

It's so important, and even because they're like at the moment now, I'm doing a bit of work on six, doing their like sport coverage, and like one thing that we were talking about a lot on the show was like the men's national team, and if they go to the World Cup and like Troy Pard and all the goals that he was scoring and all of this, and they were like, like, what's going on in their head? And I was like, they just keep needing to be delusional. They like it is it's working, and like especially when you look at like their season leading up to that, like the beginning of their season was awful, but the more they got delusional about what was possible, the better they became it became. So, like, honestly, I just think sports people and and people who have a dream have to become so delusional about it that they're undeniable.

Tokyo Gold And Trusting The Signs

Diana 29:38

I love the story of when when you won gold that you had a feeling that day that that was gonna be your time.

Ellen 29:44

I love the universe. I love like the little signs.

Diana 29:47

Tell me about tell me about that.

Ellen 29:49

I'm such a woo-woo girl. Yeah, like it's a it's it's there when it's so hard to explain, but when something in sport happens, I I I kind of feel like everyone knows it's gonna happen before it happens. You can like you can recognize greatness before it happens. And I had privilege of watching a teammate of mine in 2012 win a gold medal, and I knew that he was gonna win a gold medal before it happened. I knew it. There was like this energy coming off him, and I I I knew he was gonna win a gold medal, and then I saw it again in Rio in 2016 with other people, and then in Tokyo, I felt it myself, and one of my teammates, I I learned this afterwards, but one of my teammates said it to my coach at the time to say, there's like this energy in it, Alan's gonna win a gold medal, and I just found it so amazing that he could pick up on that as well. For me, Tokyo Tokyo was just like even now, like Tokyo was how many years ago? Like five years ago. Like, I'm nearly chasing trying to get back to the person I was then because she was just so confident and sure of where she was and what she was doing, and also I guess like to be a successful sports person, at times I think you need to be a little bit boring. Now she was a bit boring, but like so maybe that's why I'm not like that anymore. But I I was I was so certain of like what I had to do, and it it at times I had moments where I was afraid, but once I said I'm afraid, and then I'd be like, Oh, actually, that's silly of me to be afraid. Like, this is just a job that I have to do. And I kind of stripped away everything that was other than as straightforward as this is just a job, just remove the emotions from it. This is just a job. And little things kind of happened throughout the day. So I had been in a relationship with this guy who was a coach, and his athlete that was over in Tokyo, so he was over in Tokyo as well. His athlete was supposed to be playing a match at the exact same moment of my final, and something happened that made his match be cancelled. So my boyfriend at the time got to come to the pool. It was COVID as well, so there was nobody in the sounds, but the fact that the person that I loved at the time was there, I was like, that is a little bit of a quinky ding. So what's the universe trying to tell me here? And then I remember in the call room, I had like music on and I was listening to this music, and like my Spotify playlist ran out, and then this song came on, and it was a Katy Perry song, and it was unconditional, and it's a song all about like loving someone unconditionally. But for me, I took it as like no matter what happens here, I'm gonna love you unconditionally, and you're fine. You got this. And it was those little things that kind of happened, and I walked out and I just I was just so I was just so like with one. I don't know how to explain it. You're just I was so I was so certain of who I was, what I was capable of, I was so confident, and I didn't feel like I had to prove anything to anyone because no matter what happened, I could come first, I could come last. It was gonna be okay. And as long as I gave myself permission that it was gonna be okay, it was gonna be okay. And then I dove into the pool and my goggles filled with water, like I couldn't see a thing. So, like that was another thing that could have gone wrong, but I just kept pushing and to to hit the wall and come first and see like the time I swam. I think I was more happy about the time I swam than anything else. Like my teammates afterwards gave out to me because they said I didn't celebrate well enough. And I was kind of like, I didn't feel like I needed to, though. It was like a moment for me that I was just so proud of. And when I won my medal in Rio, I kind of had to fake it. I had to like when you watch people be successful, you like you see them slap in the water, all of this. I was doing that in Rio because that's what I had seen other people do, but in Tokyo, I was like, isn't that nice? Like it's done. Yeah, it was just yeah.

Diana 34:01

You know, yeah, yeah. Sense of fulfillment, maybe.

Ellen 34:05

Yeah, it was a sense of like we got there. Yeah, we finally got there. We finally, we finally achieved what we knew we could always achieve. And it took 13 years, like 13 years from Beijing to Tokyo. It was 13 years.

Lonely After Winning And Spotlight Shock

Diana 34:21

That's the thing. Like, I feel like oftentimes people see this, you know, incredibly emotionally heightened moment. You're standing on the podium, you're getting your medal. They kind of forget that it's been a long journey to get there, a very long journey with so many ups and downs and really tough moments where you really had to, like you say, like go into yourself and give yourself a constant pep talk to be able to tell to take you there in the end. And it's the same way with like social media and Instagram. You see people achieving things and winning things, and things look beautiful and glossy, and oh, weren't they so lucky? But you forget that there's a whole backstory that took them there. And this is why I wanted to make the podcast to remind people that like anyone who has ever achieved anything has has experienced so much along the way, and whether it's been good things or bad things, they've all culminated to to to this moment. So how did it feel then to be on the front page of newspapers and come home to like this massive hero's welcome? And like did you were you able to soak that up and was it truly a joyful time? It seems like you were you felt much more free this time round uh and gave yourself permission to just enjoy, enjoy the moment as opposed to like you know, worrying and being stressed.

Ellen 35:45

Um yeah, I know, like it's I think success as an athlete is also hard because once you achieve what you wanted to achieve, what's next? Do you know? Yeah, you have to keep achieving. But I didn't really feel like I needed to do that. And there was actually a moment, like as as happy and as peace as I was having won the medal and been on the podium, that evening actually was quite difficult because all of like all of my teammates had to go to bed. Like I won I won my gold medal on day one, I think, on the first day of competition or day two, and like the competition still had to go ahead. And I I went for dinner by myself and sat in an empty food hall with a slice of pizza by myself, and it was really, really, really lonely. And then I when I came home from Tokyo, I struggled with like strangers coming up to me and talking to me about the games, and also I think the reason why I struggled with that as well is because it had been COVID, so I you go from like not being able to interact with anyone to loads of people wanting to interact with you, so there's the anxiety of that, but it was really difficult for me to accept the praise, I guess, at the same time because all they all anyone wanted to talk about was the amazing achievement that you had, and you're like, oh, but it's been really hard getting there, and then I really struggled, yeah, just like with going outside and stuff. So I did dancing with the stars not too long after I came home from Tokyo, and I think that's the best thing that I ever did because it took the pressure off me as an athlete and it was just Ellen's on a dancing show. Ellen's on the show that's entertaining, and she could make a fool out of herself or she could be good. Let's just see what happens. And the public loved it, and the public loved dancing with the stars, and I really, really, really loved people coming up to me then because they were so excited to talk to me about dancing with the stars, and it's a silly dance show, it's just an entertainment show. So it took the pressure off the expectation of me as an athlete and just it was bridging this gap that I needed and was giving me kind of like a safety cushion to be like, there's more to me than that. It's there's this silly show that I do, so that really, really helped, and it it kind of gave me that time off swimming as well, so that when I went back swimming, I was really excited to be there. But then I also knew that my time was coming to an end because I did want to do more of the silly stuff, and I did want to do more TV, and I did want more time to spend with my friends, and I wasn't I think because I'd won the gold medal, I I didn't have that goal of winning gold medal anymore. I didn't feel the need to achieve anything anymore. And I I guess like a bit of conflict with coaching with coaches and stuff as well. It all just started to feel a bit more like a chore. So, like the end, I'm like I'm one of the luckiest athletes in the world because I I knew when I was I knew when I was retiring and I knew when it was time to walk away. And I like I remember my last day, like it was like in slow motion, like I was able to just like take it all in and just like appreciate every single moment, like even the worst things about being an athlete and the worst things about race day. I was like, At least this is the last time I have to do this, this is the last time I have to do that. Because even I remember when I finished racing, I did an ice bath, and one of my support staff was like, Why are you doing an ice bath? Like, you don't need to do this anymore. And I was like, It's my last one, I have to do it. So, yeah, like I can't even remember what the question was. I just kept talking.

Diana 39:32

I can't either, I've just been listening. It's just so fascinating because just getting into the the mind frame of someone who was so dedicated for so long and so young, but yet so grown up at the same time, and trying to be just a young person, being free, but also being kind of constrained and constricted to a certain routine and regime because if they didn't do that, then they weren't excelling in their field, and you know, you were so strict on yourself in many ways, but also you just wanted to break free, and it must have been um I don't know, I I can't imagine that exhausting. Well, yeah, that exhaustion, but also I don't know, I feel like maybe I feel like maybe it's built you to be a really fearless person who's also just like is ready to welcome any challenge with open arms because you've done so much hard stuff and pushed yourself through really difficult moments in your in your career, you know. So I feel like it's built you up to be a really resilient person. Like your disability being one of those things since you were a child, you had to learn to be resilient in that way. But then having the added layer of being a competitive, you know, an athlete, a professional athlete is is another huge layer that built resilience. Because sometimes, like even just going to Bolivia, doing dancing with the stars, like you're constantly putting yourself out there. And I feel like maybe if you didn't have that swimming background where you had to overcome constant challenges, maybe you'd be a little bit more reluctant to put yourself out there, you know?

Retirement And Being A Beginner Again

Ellen 41:03

Yeah, it's it's funny that you say that because I think I take for granted how much I just kind of like say, Yeah, sure, whatever, I'll do that. I like not a lot of things faze me anymore. I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing. Like I it's a good thing for me personally because I'm at peace a lot of the time and I don't feel the need to prove myself to anyone. I love doing things for TV and for media and challenging things because that's that's changing perceptions for of people with disabilities, and that's important, and that's kind of like my guiding, my guiding light at the moment, and that's kind of what gets me up in the morning. But in terms of like me personally, I don't feel like I have to prove myself to anyone anymore. So I'm very at peace. But sometimes that's can that can be a bad thing because I then because I have had the opportunity from such a young age and I've had all this pressure and stress from such a young age, I don't appreciate maybe people my age who are getting overwhelmed by things or who won't put themselves out there. And I think maybe that's something that I can learn to be better at is like understanding that mindset. Because for me, I just I'll do I'll just say sure, yeah. Like, what's the worst thing that can happen? Someone can say no, but then like silly things will stress me out and overwhelm me, like what? Um like emails, replying to emails. Like I obviously I was in school and I did college and all of these things, but sport was always my priority, and following my passion was always my priority. So actually, like the basic things that people are good at. Now, obviously, this is like an ADHD thing as well, where we're really bad at executive function. The basic things of just being organized, organizing my life, I'm really, really bad at, and it overwhelms me and it stresses me out. And I'm jealous of people who are type A because I'm like, oh my god, like in Tokyo, I was actually type A, but I think I was type A because I was in Japan and everyone all the Japanese people are so type A, they made it like it was like osmosis. It was coming into me through the water. But yeah, like I I'm very, I'm very, very, very lucky. But again, at the same time, maybe if I had maybe I'd have more ambition to do other things, but maybe maybe I just need a rest from it all. Like when I retired, I was so tired. I was exhausted. Like I slept for days and then I I went traveling and I came home and then I I slept for weeks. Sometimes I I just all I want to do is sleep, and like my friends would be like, Well, you're allowed, you're allowed sleep. But the the actual thing that I struggle with now is like the question of so what are you doing now? So who are you now? Who are you now that you're not this athlete?

Diana 43:48

And you're like, And that is something I wanted to ask about, like when you're you're basically reinventing yourself, like you've shed one title and you're stepping into a new era for Ellen and And how do you figure out what that that looks like or is for you when you're you when you've been so defined by who you are for such a long time? Like were you nervous? Were you beating yourself up about finding your way in your own home?

Ellen 44:17

100% like when someone I someone said to me before, like uh you gotta catch it while it's hot or something, and I was like, what? And like it's it's so so so difficult to one day decide this is who I am, and then this is not who I am anymore, and then to figure out who I am now. Like I s I still don't know when someone asks, so what do you do? I'm like, I do a little bit of everything, like finger and many pies, not a lot of fingers, just lots of pies.

Diana 44:51

Was there a period where you felt lost trying to navigate your next chapter?

Ellen 44:58

Yeah, so I came home from Bolivia in the January of last year, so 2025, January 2025, and the February I had like no work, and that's because I didn't win a medal in Paris, and it was the first time in first time in 1211 years I'd not won a medal, and so like brands only want to work with people who want a medal. Now that's thankfully like I am kind of reinventing myself at the moment, and I'm not really reinventing myself, I'm just kind of more stepping into this person that I kind of always was, but didn't really know how to navigate. Um, and and that's who I kind of feel like I am now. I'm taking more ownership of filling the space of I hate this word, but like influencer. Every I know and all influencers hate the word and all the content, like it's content creating. Like the the reason why I have to use the word influencer is because like the word influencer is you have to influence people, and I want to influence people. I want people to understand and be educated about disability, and I want to show the reality of what it's like to have a disability, and I want to be a voice so that other people with disabilities don't feel alone, and that's a space that I'm actually being a lot more proactive and stepping into, and it's really important to me to do that. And I think before I might have been a little bit more, oh, I'm Ellen the athlete, whereas now I'm I'm making sure that I'm creating that content so that it's more educational and it has a place online as well, and that's fun, and I'm enjoying that. So I'm doing that, and the media side of things, like I love like Diana, like you get it as well because like you've done it, and it's being in front of a camera and being part of a production is so fun and so exhilarating, yeah.

Diana 46:49

And especially if it's a live environment, live dancing with the stars, like when you do commentary work.

Ellen 46:55

Yeah, like it's it's like racing to me. It's the adrenaline. I love it so so much. So that's like I'm getting my adrenaline kick there, but also like TV production is a team, it's like a sports team. It's you need every single person on that team to be at their best for it to function. So last year I did an internship with War T and that, oh my god, that was so hard for me for my ego.

Diana 47:20

Because I wanted to ask about that because I was posting about that at the time, and I was like, well, you're obviously you're obviously in there because you've got a show or a job, and then I saw that you were doing an internship, and I was like, Oh my god, go Helen, I love that. Because you don't see many people doing something like that because you've achieved so much. Not that you took a step back, but you were able to put yourself in a space and be like, I'm here to learn. Yeah, I want to learn.

Ellen 47:48

Yeah, that's exactly why I did it. Yeah, because I think I think people can take for granted, like I didn't, I don't I didn't want to be like, oh, I'm on TV because of what I what I did, and that's the only reason why I'm on TV. I want to be on TV because I'm good at what I do and I understand what goes on in the background of TV. And I want to be able to say, I know what that job is, and I respect that researcher, and I respect that runner, and I know exactly how hard they're working. Like I wanted to put myself in their shoes, and that's exactly what the internship was. But it was also really, really, really hard emotionally because I was getting like it was just so weird. I was getting like tours of or TE, and like I was seeing people who I've like been on their shows with, and they'd be like, Ellen, what are you doing here? And I'm like, I'm an intern now, and they're like, Oh, oh, hi, welcome. And they like everyone was so welcoming and it was like such an amazing experience. But for me to kind of just be like, okay, now I'm starting again, like really realizing you're starting again is really hard. But I think the internship was like a safety net for me because I was allowed. I was like, I think I think everyone just needs to not be afraid of being a beginner again. Like it is hard, but like once you're like, okay, I'm a beginner again, that gives you permission to like if you fuck up, you fuck up, that's okay. Like you're allowed, and you're allowed like learn and not know. And I ask all the silly questions. Like the silly, I asked so many silly questions, but because I asked the silly questions, I learned and I asked the same question over and over again. Like, I don't know if you've ever used an avid, and avids are so difficult to use. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I asked the same question over and over and over again, but like that's how you learn. So, yeah, I was really proud that I did it, and I learned I met so many amazing people. Like, people who work in TV are just so kind with their time, and they have to be because like TV, especially in sports as well, like people are working at all hours, and like you have to get on with people that you work with, and like some people you mightn't get on with, but like everyone is just so kind and willing to give me give you a chance. So, yeah, like I loved it, loved it so so much.

Diana 49:56

Loved a little, well, a lot actually before we recorded about your dancing with the stars experience, and it just sounded like it was the most fun experience of your life. Yeah, like it would be a dream for most people to appear on that show. What is like your your lasting memory, a memory from the show that you'll just treasure and cherish forever?

Ellen 50:19

I just like Steven, like I love that man so so much. We had so much fun together, and I was so lucky to be paired with such an amazing person. But like, it's so funny. There's one dance that we did, so we would we would get like everyone, everyone had their own way of kind of like warming up before a show, and like me and Steven would to get rid of the nerves and stuff, we would play tag, so I'd be like, Tag, you're it, and I'd run away, and then he'd find me and play tag. Like, that's we were children in the background, but we were practicing one of our dances, like literally right before we went on. And in one of the dances, he did like a cartwheel, and his like legs would like flip in front of my face. And I don't I can't remember if he stayed there or what happened, or maybe I did the cartwheel. There was a cartwheel involved at some point, um, but he like farted right in front of my face, and I was like, Oh, lovely, lovely. How am I gonna tell everyone? And now I'm telling the podcast. So that's a memory that definitely stays with me, but probably the nicest one is our last dance. Like, honestly, I I get emotional thinking about it because I'm like, it was so we it was like a contemporary ballroom dance that we did, but it was just like a kind of a mix of all the dances that we did throughout the throughout the three months, and uh knowing that I was never gonna get to dance with Steven again. That was so sad.

Diana 51:39

But you were so phenomenal on that show. You were phenomenal enough, I didn't win. No, but you were you're such a beautiful dancer, like lighting up our TV screens every single weekend, you know, for those three months, and obviously you're continuing to light them up now with Ireland's Fit as Family. How do those experiences compare and contrast? Because two very different types of of TV making.

Body Confidence And Disability Visibility

Ellen 52:06

Yeah, there's one where you get your hair makeup done every week, and there's one where you have to do your own hair makeup. So, like honestly, Dance with Stars is so fun, completely unrealistic, though. Whereas Arlen's for his family, it's like it's still I can still be Ellen the athlete when I'm doing it, and it's really nice. And I didn't realize it is it it's it was when I when I first the first show, the first episode that we recorded, I didn't really know what to expect, but it was a moment where I was like, I actually I I'm really good at this in terms of like I know a lot of things that I could apply here from my swimming career, so it's kind of like being able to recycle all this knowledge that I have and and try and be part of a team again, and but it's really fun because I get to watch people do things, I don't have to do them, which is I love that, I love that side of it. But it's I love seeing the spirit of the families and I love finding out their why and why they're doing it because there's always a bigger reason why people are doing it, and once you unlock that as well, and it's the oh my god, like the Stuarts that I had last year, they were just so amazing because like the kids were quite young and they were going up against like people in their 20s and 30s, and like they in the beginning they were quite nervous, but then they would go they would they'd be quite nervous like on camera or like just before we went on camera, or like I kind of felt like I wanted to shake them and be like believe in yourself, but then as soon as they started the trial or the activity, they were phenomenal, and every every event that they did they got better and better and better, and that's because they're getting more confident that they could do it. So just seeing like seeing families bond, seeing the confidence grow, and seeing the like the the families get better at communicating with each other, it's so much fun. Whereas dancing, you're just like it I think dancing is like it's in a way, it's a little bit of a vanity project because it is about you, it is about you wearing the dresses and you wearing the tan and the makeup and you doing the dance well and all of this. Like, and it is a like you're you're begging for votes as well, so you're trying to like you're trying to please the public. Whereas Ireland's Fitness Family, you your only job as a coach on that show is to inspire the families and help families, and that's so nice.

Diana 54:35

What do you what do your own family think of of all your success and achievements? I mean, I know they've been a huge part of that journey, like from day one, your parents were bringing you to those swimming classes and things, but yeah, they must be so proud to see you and how you're building your career post-your swimming chapter.

Ellen 54:53

Oh, they definitely are, but then they definitely probably get annoyed at me because I just forget to tell them things. Do you know what I mean? No, that girl. I'm that girl, yeah. They'll be like, Well, your auntie texted me to say that you were on RTE today, and I'll be like, Oh, yeah, I was, yeah. And they're like, Why didn't you tell us we wanted to listen? And I was like, But it's weird, it's a weird dynamic because you're like, sorry, you're not gonna ask my brother what went on in his meeting. So, like, it's the same thing. Like, this is my job, and it's just separate, but like they love it, they do, and they're very proud and they get excited because like, especially before you know you get asked to do things, but then things may not be like on signed on the dotted line, or you'll be told like confidentially you can't tell anyone about this, and then they'll get so annoyed that I didn't tell them about it, and they'll be like, Well, I'm sorry, the last time I told you something, you told that person, that person, that person. Now that's how that got out.

Diana 55:48

So I'm not telling you anything ever again. How do you feel knowing that you kind of grew up in the media, right? With eyes on you, like there's pictures of you since you were a teenager, right? Up until now, I'm sure if you do a Google image search, is that hard to grow up in the public eye? Like, especially during those awkward teenage years where you were saying, like, you know, your body was changing and you you were even you're you're you were even swimming differently, never mind looking a bit different. Is it hard to grow up during these massive formative years in front of the nation?

Ellen 56:23

I think because social media wasn't really that big, I was very lucky. I think now it's probably different, but like the only photos that really exist of me now are like the the sports file photo call photos. Do you know what I mean? And they're the ones that I thought I looked amazing. And I was a big emo, and I had a black fringe that went across my face. But do you know what I love them because they're really funny to include in corporate talks, yes, and they're they're really important to show the journey that you've been on and like what you've overcome. And I've overcome that fringe, thank God. But no, I don't mind that they're out there, they're actually quite funny, and like I kind of disassociate from it as well. So I like it's just such a weird life that you kind of can't really overthink it. Because if you overthink it, then you're you're gonna have the massive ego and you're gonna worry about everything as well. You'd probably go high, like run away and hide.

Diana 57:23

So, Ellen, I heard you say that you are proud to be disabled. It took you many years to get to that stage. When did you start loving your body and your disability and appreciating yourself for the way that you look and the way you are?

Ellen 57:37

Um I guess so I was a very free and open kid, and I was very happy and I was very giddy, and I was very bubbly. And when I when I hit the teenage years and I'd come home from Beijing and I and I started to feel insecure, it was all like my body was changing. It was that time that everyone's really insecure about who they are and what they look like. And there was this thing about me that no matter how hard I chained, I tried, I could never change. So that was my arm and my disability. And the only way I could I felt like I could be accepted is if I hid. So I used to wear sleeves and I used to wear baggy jackets, baggy coats, and even going to like my underage discos, and when I went to Wes, I'd be wearing like really, really heavy jackets just to try and make it look like I had two hands. And I was like an expert at hiding and really, really good at deceiving people. But when you deceive people, there's always the fear of getting caught. So I would live with like constant anxiety that if someone looked at me funny, perhaps they noticed. And I did have encounters when people would come up to me and be like, Oh, did you break your arm? And I'd be like, What are you talking about? And they'd be like, Why are you holding your arm like awkwardly? Like, what's going on? And I'd be like, Oh, no, I just don't have an arm. And then the reaction would be like 10 times as worse. And I was just so afraid of that. And I and I and I really believed because I never saw someone like me in the media, that I just didn't belong and I didn't deserve to be loved. And like, you never saw someone who looked like me in like a rom-com or like a romantic relationship online and things like that. So, like, I really had no role model to look up to, but the only role model, I guess, that I had, or the only inspiration that I had, apart from meeting the people that I met, was the little girl that I once was. So I knew it at my core who I was. And I'm this happy, outgoing girl. Like I know at my core that's who I am. And for my teenage years, and especially during school, I was really, really quiet, really, really shy, really insecure. I wouldn't speak unless spoken to. And even if I was spoken to, I would say like one-word answers. And I just wanted to be part of the wall. Like I wanted to disappear. And I it made me really sad. And it wasn't who I was at my core. And because I knew who I was capable of being, that was kind of my motivation to figure it out. It's kind of one of those moments where you feel get sick of your own shit. And that's the kind of phrase that I use because it's so aggressive, and that's how I kind of felt. And when I started college, I was like, okay, I'm starting college, it's a fresh start, it's a new beginning. There are people here who don't know me. So if I go in and roll up my sleeves and act like I don't care and I haven't a care in the world, and this is who I am, and this is I love my body, blah, blah, blah. Then maybe I can make that a reality. And I walked into college on day one, and that's exactly what I did. And I had to fake the confidence. Like I was terrified. But like when I went in and I rolled up my sleeves and I just kind of got on with it, I realized that like people were like looking, glancing, but it wasn't like the world didn't revolve around me and my arm. So that was like a learning moment for me when I kind of was like, okay, I can keep doing this. And then the more I did it, the more free I felt, and the more relaxed I became, and the more just like in love with my body I became, I guess. And because I had started that journey, I was like 19 at that time. And then the more when I won my medal in Rio and I came home and I started working with brands and stuff, I started talking about like how I was really insecure about my arm because I couldn't see myself in the media. And then all of a sudden, the sponsors I was working with were putting me on billboards and were telling my story and putting me on the side of buildings, and like I was like, wow, this is amazing. And I kind of had no other choice but to love my body. And and like I'm so I'm so lucky that I've had this opportunity. And the more, the more confident I became in myself, the better my swimming got, and the stronger I became. And I just started to really be like, oh, this is so cool, what I am capable of. And I'm so glad I don't hide anymore because honestly, it was the most horrible time of my life. Um, and it's really sad to me because sometimes I'll get messages from parents and their kids will be as young as like five or six, and they'll be like, We've started to notice our daughter or son is hiding their arm. I'm like, this is too early, it's too soon. But that is purely because they can't see someone who looks like them and they can't be proud of their arm. So that's that's why I do things like dancing with the stars. That's why I did Uncharted, that's why I'm on Ireland's Fittest Family, is because people need to see my body. People need to see my disabled body, and kids need to be able to point to the TV and be like, oh my god, she looks like me, and I'm not alone in this world. And if I can just like prevent one person from maybe making a bad comment, or one person from bullying another kid for being different, or just like make one person feel a little less alone, that's that's why I'm doing what I do. And I think that makes me love my arm and my body even more. And I I think like I think I think the purpose of having an arm like this, like I I would have I would have resented it a lot when I was younger, and I just am like, I have been given such a gift in terms of my ability to communicate, my ability to put myself out there without feeling too much too afraid of putting myself out there. Like I have to do it, and it's a purpose that I have to fulfill, and hopefully it will make a difference, and hopefully it will kind of make a change for people.

Diana 1:03:28

You've probably witnessed firsthand that it is making a difference because you've met children, girls, young girls just like you. And I know you hosted like workshops for children with limb differences or disabilities. And what do they say to you when they meet you? Like, what do those conversations go like? Are their faces lighting up? Are they saying they want to follow in your footsteps? Like it must feel so nice to be able to almost speak to your inner younger child when you're meeting a child who's like 9, 10, 11, 12. It must almost feel like a healing process in a weird way because you're like, So just reassure them and show them like, look, you too can achieve these, whatever you're dreaming of, like you two can achieve it. I've been able to do it. There's nothing, you know, this isn't gonna hold you back. There's nothing that's impossible.

Ellen 1:04:13

Yeah, like winning a gold medal is amazing, but the best feeling in the world is when you meet a little kid who looks like you and they have moments of I'm not alone, and they have moments of, oh my god, I want to be just like you. And you just like that is the most amazing feeling in the world. And that's why, like, I think it's so important for when I do like do do media, like I need to present myself the best way possible so that like everyone can see, oh, like she has like she loves makeup, she loves fashion, blah blah blah, and she has a disability. And and she has a disability, it's the thing that comes second, you know? Um, and it's so important for me to be my outgoing self so that people see that before they see my disability. But like I have traveled the world and I've met, I've met like I had a situation when I went to Australia for the first time. I went to the Australia for the first time in 2019, and I got this message off this man who lived in Australia, and he said that his daughter had the same arm as me, and he could see that I was in Sydney, and they lived in Sydney, and is there any chance that I would meet their daughter? So I met this little Australian girl on the beach on Byron on Bondi Beach when she was like 10. And we just met and she she was doing a project on me at the time, and she lost her mind when she met me. And I'm Irish, this girl is Australian, like what? And that was such a lovely encounter. But then we kept in contact and she was swimming, and then a couple of years later, I was swimming in Australia and we got to race against each other. Wow, no way, yeah, yeah, yeah. What a full circle moment that's so beautiful, a really full circle moment, and like. She's amazing and she's doing great. But there was times when like her dad was like, Oh, she started to hide her arm, and we've started to notice like when people come to the house, she's a bit more shy and reserved. So, like I FaceTimed her and I was like, What are you doing? Like, stop. Like, I was like, come on. Because sometimes I think people need tough love, and and that's kind of what I want to try to give people as well. As much as I want to be their role model, I want them to be a little bit harder on themselves. Because if I was maybe a little bit, if I had maybe a little bit of tough love and a little bit of realization that like you get this one life, why are you gonna hide and and and dim yourself? And if you dim yourself, like you're giving other people more of an opportunity to take advantage of you and all of these things, so and it's harder, it's so hard to get out of it whenever you've started dimming yourself. So I just try and encourage girls to girls and boys to be as outgoing and as themselves as possible. But I still also struggle with like I had a message recently from an uncle who said that his nephew was 18 and he was asking, it was like around the age where you ask people out to the debs and he hadn't asked anyone yet. And the uncle I think was teasing him and being like, Well, why don't you ask why haven't you asked someone yet? And then he turned around and was like, Oh, you don't understand what it's like to have one hand because it's the fear of rejection. And the uncle reached out to me and asked if I would talk to his nephew, and like, but like I can't do that because I'm a girl, like I I don't know what it is. From a male perspective, yeah. From a male perspective, and I don't know, I don't know the pressures that men and boys have to be the man. Do you know what I mean? So I said no, but I did get him in contact with a guy I knew who also has one arm and it's very outgoing because like different people need different role models, and it's just like it's also like I think it's important to know what what you can do and what you can't do. So that's kind of what I'm trying to do at the moment. But sometimes I feel silly because I'm like, oh, people are so sick of me talking about having one arm. I am sick of talking about having one arm, and like I'm like, there's more to me than my arm, but then I get messages from people who say I feel a little less alone, and I'm like, oh, okay, that's worth it. I have so many of those messages that I want to like print them out, put them in a jar, and whenever I'm having a bad day, and whenever I feel like I can't, like I'm like unmotivated, I just have to pick up one of those and be like, okay, no, they need me. I gotta go out and I gotta go out and make this silly content about having one arm.

Diana 1:08:31

No, and the content isn't silly though, like it's so important and it it I hate to use the word desensitize, but it desensitizes people to the topic and the issue because I think sometimes people just don't know. Like me earlier, I was trying to phrase a really simple question, but I didn't want to do it in a really insensitive way. And I feel like sometimes that's people's stumbling block. It's not some people, yeah, are ignorant and rude, but then some people are just unsure of how to talk about it and panic, and then yeah, it's like I don't want to upset you, but I also don't want to say it inappropriately, and I don't want to be dismissive. And so I think it's just the more that you speak about it, the more people feel comfortable, you know, even just being able to talk to you.

Ellen 1:09:15

Yeah, they're not gonna be able to do it.

Self-Worth Lessons And Looking Ahead

Diana 1:09:16

So I don't think there is such a there is there's no such thing as speaking too much about it. I feel like no, people aren't tired. In fact, you know, people are welcoming it and they want to learn more. And you know, sometimes you want to find out more, but you don't know if it's okay to ask. So when you're providing the information and we can learn, like that's the best way.

Ellen 1:09:36

I feel like yeah. Um it's so funny as well, because even like I I so for the month of April, April is Lim Difference Awareness Month, and that's kind of when I started to be like, okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna try and post every day so that I am taking advantage of the month that it is and and and raising a bit of awareness. And I was talking to my agent the other day, and I was like, I think I'm actually making a difference here, and she was like, Yeah, that's really good. And I was like, No, no, no, no. The reason why I think I'm making a difference is because I'm actually getting trolls now. I was like, you know you're doing well in social media when you get trolls, you're like, score, score, score for me. I got a troll, yay.

Diana 1:10:17

I don't think anyone's ever celebrated trolls before.

Ellen 1:10:20

Oh, I will. Do you know what? Like, cause even as like the only the only unfun trolls are like on TikTok where they're just like being silly and whatever, like everyone gets trolls on TikTok, but on I think on Instagram it's you only like I never got trolled on Instagram before because I was seen as that quote unquote good girl, but now that I'm like posting my opinion of things, I'm getting trolls, and I'm like, this this is working. Like, if I'm gonna poke the bear of people and and their perception and opinion of disabilities, then I'm I'm doing a good job if I'm getting trolls.

Diana 1:10:57

This is not related to trolls, but if you could change anything in your experience or career or a chapter, if you could go back and change a chapter of your life, is there one that you would do differently? Or would you do things the same because it's led you to being where you are today in the person that you are?

Ellen 1:11:16

Yeah, I I've already said that I wouldn't if I could change one thing, I wouldn't go to Beijing. But if I if that wasn't an option, I think I just wish I had been kinder to myself sooner.

Diana 1:11:27

Yeah.

Ellen 1:11:28

And like I feel like if I I if I had been kinder to myself sooner, maybe I would have made better decisions, but unfortunately those were just the cards that I was dealt. And it's just sad that like the way people think of themselves is reflective of like the environments that they're in and what they're exposed to. So like because I was really insecure about my arm and because I never saw never saw like anyone like me in love or in relationships, I probably put up with a lot from men and from boys and from men when I was younger because I didn't didn't have a lot of self-worth. So I my friend actually put it really well the other day. It's like you accept the love you think you deserve. Yeah. So if you do think you don't deserve anything, you're just gonna accept scraps. So I wish I had been kinder to myself sooner and understood my worth sooner, because then maybe I wouldn't have allowed people to treat me as badly as they have done in the past. And that's not just with like relationships, that's definitely with friendships as well. So, yeah, that's the one thing that I wish was different. But again, that's why you have to give back, and that's why I try and be as open and honest as possible because like we're not unique in the way that we think, uh, everyone is has the same kind of thoughts and is going through similar experiences, so like just making sure that people don't feel alone in like the situations that they're in is so important.

Diana 1:13:00

And you know what? You are not gonna take shit from people going forward. No, we're not lesson learned, you know. Ellen has built that tough skin and she knows what she wants and she's got that self-respect and appreciation, and uh, it might have been a tough journey to get here, but there's no one who's gonna who's gonna crack or break that now.

Ellen 1:13:19

We hope. We hope. Watch this space. I'll be there by time.

Thanks For Listening And Stay In Touch

Diana 1:13:25

Not allowed. She's too she's too special. I love her too much. Thank you so much for this amazing conversation and giving up literally an entire afternoon. It's almost six o'clock and you're still here. You must be like here for five hours. It felt like five hours to me. No, it hasn't. No, time flies when you haven't fun. Until our next meeting, thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. Well, there you have it. That was the beautiful inside and out Ellen Keane. I relished my time in her presence so much, and I learned so much from her as well. And everything she does, she brings so much sunshine and joy and knowledge and heart and love and passion and depth, and I can't stop raving about her, and what a joy to be able to have this conversation uh on Limb Difference Awareness Month, that is the month of April. Thank you so much for listening to the pod this week. If you're looking for something a little extra to listen to, there are eight brilliant episodes of the Delusional Optimist with interesting people like Ryan Tubberty, Steve Garrigan, Paige Toon, Catchamiya, um, and so many more. So please feel free to go back and have a listen. Keep leaving your reviews and uh your comments, send me DMs, all these things help me build a better podcast, and the more interaction, the better, because that shows Apple and Spotify that you're enjoying it. So they'll show my podcast to more people as well. Um, I will be back again next week with another brilliant guest. In the meantime, have a good one and thank you so much.