When Life Brings Disappointment with Kasey Moffett

Kasey lives a full life homeschooling and raising three children. Kasey Moffett has served the church in many roles for fifteen years and is currently working part time as the HR & Finance Director. 

On this episode of the podcast Kasey Moffett shares how God walked with her through intense suffering and disappointment.

Additional Resources: Blog Article written by Kasey Moffett 

https://ftc.co/resource-library/blog-entries/when-your-spouse-wont-change/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:11

Hello and welcome to Holy Flax, the podcast, a place for Grace Road women and friends to discuss teachings, topics, and conversations. On this season of the podcast, we will be discussing the work of our hands, how we can joyfully and intentionally bring God glory by stewarding every aspect of our lives with biblical wisdom. I'm your host, Danielle Morzano, and I'm so glad you're here. Well, hello and welcome to Woolen Flax a Podcast, a place for Grace Road Woman and friends to discuss teachings, topics, and conversations together. In this episode, I will be sitting with Casey Moffat to hear aspects of her testimony that truly I don't know too much about, but we do know that they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and the Word of their testimony. And if you've ever walked through the valley of the shadow of death, you too know that some of our deepest suffering can produce steadfastness. Therefore, my beloved sisters, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain. I'm so glad you're here. Well, hello, ladies. Thanks for tuning into this conversation. Today I am sitting with Casey Moffat. Um so yeah, I guess just say hey to everyone. Um Hi everyone.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

Hey Danielle, thank you so much for having me. Hi, Casey.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

Um, I'm so glad that you're here. And um, how about you just share a little bit about your church involvement, your family, things like that?

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Yeah, so thanks again. Um, I'm just I feel honored to be able to chat with you. And um, yeah, so I've been married to Nathan. We've been married for five years, and we have three kids, um, two boys aged 11 and 4, and then a baby girl who's four months old. And I've been part of Grace Road just about since it began, and I've been on staff for 15 years. Um, my role has changed a lot over the years, but I'm currently part-time as the HR and finance director. We also homeschool and we've been homeschooling for about five years. Um, so yeah, that's our kind of full, every day is full, and um, but we feel like we're in a really special season.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

So that is amazing. That is amazing. Did it did I leave anything else out? No. I mean, so many people know you. You've been here since the start of Grace Road, right? So um, I'm so glad you're here. And today we're gonna be talking about when life brings us disappointment. Um, I'm sure all of us can kind of touch on or some memory comes to mind when you think of disappointment, uh, whether it be a friendship, a relationship, um, a job experience. Um, disappointment happens to all of us in the most unlikely ways. And so Casey has been so gracious to be willing to share a time that life did bring her disappointment. So that can come through loss, lack, unmet expectations. And um, Casey, I guess feel free to just share your story about that.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Yeah, so you're right. It's um it's usually not if we'll experience disappointment, it's when. And God walked me through a season of some suffering in my 20s. Um, I got married at 19, which sounds very young. And sometimes when I tell people that, they're shocked by it. Um, but it wasn't, you know, like a runaway marriage. I was fairly mature for my age, and my first husband had many good qualities, and the marriage was supported by everyone that knew us, including my parents and our church leadership. We felt like we had walked, you know, the path of, you know, how Christians should get to the altar. Um, and pretty much as soon as we got married, I learned of some hidden brokenness, and the marriage began dissolving on the inside almost right away. We began counseling almost immediately. And for seven years I lived with a fairly disengaged and indifferent sp indifferent spouse, and then ultimately I was abandoned by him. Um, we tried literally everything. Um, those first seven years we were in near constant counseling. Um, I had read all kinds of books and part of groups and done, I did deep Bible study, listened to sermons and podcasts, friends were praying. I had really rich community, I scheduled date nights and we went on vacation and really anything that you can imagine that a struggling marriage could try, we tried. And um I tried, I tried to change who I was to fit who I thought he wanted me to be. And um, so about seven years into our marriage, things hit a more of a breaking point and he left our home physically. Um after that, we were separated for about a year and a half before I finally sought legal separation and then divorce. And unfortunately, because of his indifference, those final decisions were technically on me to make. Though I waited and provided every opportunity for him to return home. And all in all, between the seven years he lived in our home and then some of the time that we were separated, we were married just shy of 10 years. Um and that whole decade was just, I mean, there were it wasn't all bad. There were some good things. I there were a lot of things about life in general that I loved, but inside the marriage, I was very lonely and it was a confusing time. Um, especially because I was raised a Christian.

SPEAKER_03 5:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

And I felt like I had, you know, quote, done everything right. Um, and even inside my hard marriage, I felt like I was doing everything right. I felt like I really tried hard to honor God during that season. And I in no way want to paint a picture that I was perfect. There was still sin and immaturity on my part, um things that I needed to grow from and learn from and confess. But it wasn't anything more than a normal marriage where people sin against each other in normal ways. So what happened to me didn't feel fair. Um, and I think we'll talk more about this later, but I had to reconcile the promises in scripture with the promises I thought God was making to me in my disappointment. And I felt very much like God had let me down. And I felt like I was walking through an unimaginable worst-case scenario. Um, this unwanted divorce and all of my twenties. I just felt like there was a lot of wasted time in my story.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

Wow. That is such a long time. I didn't I actually didn't realize how long um that was for you. Um so thank you so much for sharing that. And it sounds incredibly hard to go through, incredibly hard to feel, and um especially what you said about like trying to reorient yourself too. It's probably so disorienting. Um and I just I just want to say like it's completely right to be disappointed when our spouse is not committed to their vows. And so um, I don't think that's the disappointment we're talking about, right? Like correct, yeah. Like it's very it makes a lot of sense to be disappointed when someone breaks vows or is not faithful. Like that's not the kind of disappointment we're talking about today. Um, but we are talking about the disappointment that's within ourselves, and so um, we'll process that more through her story. Um But let's first uh go back to your story and and can you just share, like, how did you know that hope for your marriage was no longer sustainable for you?

SPEAKER_01 7:57

Yeah, I I held out hope really until the last possible moment. Um, and through the years, it was difficult to discern. Um, the nature of my first husband's sin was just yeah, it was just difficult to decipher. And so I walked very closely with the pastors at Grace Road and with a Christian counselor. We were asking lots of questions like, was this a hard marriage that could be fixed? Was it a hard marriage that I could continue to endure? Was this maybe a hard season that eventually would end? Um, was there anything more I could do? Was it abuse? Like all of those types of questions. And in the end, God brought clarity and um he with him moving out physically, that was kind of the first step of clarity, but then clarity along the way as I was waiting during that separation period and still pursuing him. Um, at the very end, God made it clear I was praying with my grow group um just about next steps and what I should be doing. And like I said, in addition to moving out for the year and a half, he took some more very purposeful actions away from our family and that helped me to know that we were at the end. And I've seen God do that often. I've seen him make decisions clear when I don't rush into things based on fear or impatience or anxiety. There were different points in the marriage where I felt like maybe this is it, maybe I'm just done. But they I didn't um feel like it was clear and I felt like there were still more stones to unturn. And so I've seen God do that in other things that we'll just never regret, regret waiting longer and just doing everything that we can in whatever situation we're in, but especially our marriages, until we feel like we've walked closely with biblical counselors and um that we've really done everything we can, and then maybe even more so like there maybe was more that I did that you know, maybe someone could have said you didn't need to do that, but it I I didn't want to give up quickly. Um and yeah, just like I mentioned before, I walked closely with pastors, and that was helpful as well because even when you're trying to be wise in your own eyes, when you're right in the thick of it, it is sometimes hard to see clearly. So to have um close friends that want to hold up what scripture says, close counselors and pastors that want to hold up what scripture says, that's in invaluable. And so that was a really beautiful guide that I that the Lord gifted me with.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

Wow, I that's so good. Um, it's making me think of lament and like seasons of lament. And I think especially with hearing your story, it's like okay, it was 10 years of struggle, but then to have to like go through a process of lament after that too. Just um I love that you were willing to wait. And it's making me think of how waiting is uh often really hard, but also really good.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

Like yeah, God uses it very much.

SPEAKER_00 11:02

Yeah. Um, and I mean it I hear grief too, and like grief is holding the dissonance of like what no longer is, right? So like your marriage is no longer what it was, but then also holding the the now and the present time at the same time. Um, so what did you have to let go of and release um to start the next step in your process?

SPEAKER_01 11:28

Yeah, I had to release what I thought God was going to do. I thought I knew his plan. I felt like I had, you know, lived rightly and I thought he would bring some type of miracle. I thought we would be one of those really cool stories and that God would be glorified and we would live happily ever after. And I just thought because I was trying to follow him, he would honor that in the way that I wanted. Um, and I didn't realize I had been believing a type of prosperity gospel. I never in my wildest dreams thought I would be divorced. So there was a significant amount of grief I had to wade through. And I also had to process that it felt like 10 years of my life had been wasted. But God doesn't waste time. He has us right where he wants us and he grows us in the midst of our pain. And it's beautiful that God can use sin and brokenness and bring us to a place of flourishing, even if our situation never changes. Um, I had to release control over what I thought was going to happen next. I felt so embarrassed by my hard marriage that I often tried to control things that I couldn't control. And then practically I had to make room for grief. Yeah. A few years before our divorce, I was falling apart literally. I was having a lot of physical symptoms from the anxiety of it all. And this was when God started to teach me about rest and Sabbath. I completely rearranged my schedule to make room to pray, journal, think, process, get perspective. And even though in that those years my situation hadn't changed, it was a very healing time. And um the only caveat I have to that is sometimes we talk about practical things to heal in the midst of suffering and we treat them almost like a magic spell. Right. And um, there are so many things that are helpful, like scripture study, prayer, counseling, accountability, Christian community rest. But you can't trade one set of works for another to force results. God is really after our hearts and our souls and our full surrender. And there's a posture and a surrender that is necessary for God to heal us. Um, those are the tools he used, and I think he uses those tools often, but we don't want to think that we can create this formula that gets us to the place we want to be. We can't with one hand ask for peace while with the other hand we're still plotting and manipulate manipulating our lives. And there's a lyric from a Shane and Shane song that says, Come wrestle us and win. And I love the image of wrestling with God and wanting him to win. There's so much freedom there.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

Wow. Oh, that's so good. Um, it's so true. Like, we can use this spiritual formation practices as like a formula or a medication to like heal us. Um and ultimately God is a healer and he, like you said, he uses those things. Um that is so, so good. And again, it just brings me back to like, am I willing to lament about things? Am I willing to sit through and in the hard things with the Lord and bring them to him, um, mourn them, grieve them, feel, and cast my cares to him. So just thank you so much for sharing this. Um and you shared also a teaching that you've done in the past regarding disappointment, right?

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Or what was it about? Yeah, I spoke at a women's event a few years ago at a local church and um yeah, for the life of me, I can't remember the title, but it was a lot of this content just about um disappointment with God.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

So I I read through that and there's just some there's some key points in your teaching that really stood out to me, and I would love for you to just like break those down if you can. Sure. Um so one of them I saw was mourning a situation versus mourning a false God. Can you help us understand what that means?

SPEAKER_01 15:24

Yeah, so I started to realize I had talked earlier um about the prosperity gospel, and I started to realize I was mourning a false God when I started to get bitter. Um, like you said, there is a place for lament. Um, but when it shifts into mourning an idol, I think is when bitterness starts to creep in. So I had gotten to a place where I was just really balled up with anxiety and anger. I stopped wanting to read my Bible or pray. In one sense, I did feel God's presence, but I didn't want to interact with him. I was angry. And then in other moments, I was questioning if God was even real. And when we go through suffering, it's really good to mourn it. There's um, I think it it does us a disservice when we're just positive all the time and always looking for the bright side and we can't process what's happening. Um, it's a bit of a defense mechanism, I think. And scripture gives us patterns for mourning and feeling every range of emotion, and the Psalms outlines that we can bring those to God. Um, so those are things that are right to do. But when we start to grip so tightly to controlling our world that we start to fall apart and lose our peace completely, I think we should start asking if we're losing an idol. I would never have articulated it this way in those early years of disappointment, but I really, really thought God had promised me that He would fix it. I really thought that was how my marriage story would end would end with redemption and happiness. And I don't know where it came from, I guess just from my own sin nature and also the deceiver, but it did take me down a path of works righteousness and eventually bitterness. Um, and I'll also add, like I said, I grew up a Christian, I've been at Grace Road for 15 years, like I've sat under really, really solid doctrine and teaching. Um, so this was not like the church I was in was teaching the prosperity gospel. Um, but it's just it's a lie that comes from our hearts that we have to be quick to snip out even when we're really sitting under wonderful teaching. Wow, it's so good.

SPEAKER_00 17:29

Um it's just making me think about like all the times that it's we can question our motive of, hey, why am I actually praying? Am I praying because I think this is the vehicle that's gonna give me what I want? Or am I praying because he is God? I am not, you know? Yeah. Ah, so good. Um, John 16, 33, I think about that too, because it says um that we will face trouble in this life, um, and we know that he's overcome the world. And I think the worst thing when we're like, oh, prayer's not working um to meet my expectations, or um, going to church and being faithful, it's not working, it's not giving me the results I want. The worst thing that we could do is let go of the person that will never let go of us. And it's the faithful God who he will never change and he loves us more than anyone could. Um, and our flesh would would let him go. Yeah, yeah. Uh, according to our own devices, because we're like, well, you're not giving me what I want. So I guess I just have to figure it out or do it myself or gain control in a different way. Um, so I guess I want to talk about that bitterness because it's a it's a huge sign that something is off. Um, also in our relationship with God, I think. Um so do you want to talk about like how disappointment and bitterness and disillusionment could kind of like tarnish our relationship with God?

SPEAKER_01 19:01

Yeah, yeah. I think what you said about our own flesh would let go of God. Like, thank God that He is more faithful than we are. But when we're tempted to let go of Him, I think is when we can start to see that we're holding an idol. And um bitterness can really cloud our thoughts and our trust in the Lord, and it really does make us want to leave the faith. If we start thinking things or saying things like, I know God will give me the desires of my heart eventually because I'm praying and I desire what he calls good, or I know Christianity isn't about getting what I want, but like I have been obedient, so why is he withholding blessing? Or how could a good father allow this? Those are questions that where we start to doubt him. And again, it doesn't mean we can't have doubts and questions, we want to wrestle with God. Definitely. Um, but those are the questions that start to point to that we're believing some false things about who God is. And um for some reason we're shocked by trouble, like you just read in that John verse. Scripture promises we will have it. So it helps us not to be surprised when we walk through seasons of disappointment. And it's also important that we create a theology of suffering. There's a quote I first heard on the Knowing Faith podcast, and I don't know if they've made it up or if it's somewhere else, but the quote is we shout truths about God in the light so that we can stand on them in the dark. And when we know that there will be hard things that we walk through, and it could be anything a relationship dissolving, something hard at church, illness, loss, miscarriage. We should be anticipating that and soaking in the truths of scripture so that way when suffering comes, we won't be surprised and we can see ahead holding a candle in the dark. This is where we have to be ruthless to root out the prosperity gospel in our hearts.

SPEAKER_00 20:52

Yeah, that wrestling, Casey, it's it's making me realize how important it is because um I just think even in my own life when I walk through valleys uh and trials, um I can think that because it feels like it's too much for me to handle, that it's too much for God to handle. Like, oh, if I actually am honest to God about this doubt, like, okay, so if your sovereignty is really good, this doesn't feel good at all. And I'm trusting your sovereignty. I think, I think we think it's also too big for God. Like he can't um carry or like handle our big questions, our big doubts. But um, I don't think he's at all annoyed or burdened by our feelings, our questions. He knows they're there. And I think that transparency with him in those dark times could bless our relationship with him, um, remind us of his faithfulness. So um, can you speak to that a little bit about it?

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Yeah, I think everything that you just said is great. Like we there isn't any problem that is too big for. God and He doesn't lose interest in us. Yeah. And Scripture tells us to keep asking, keep knocking, keep praying. Um, like we mentioned the four before the Psalms lays out a path for praying our feelings back to God. I've also heard someone say pray the promises back to God that He lays out in Scripture. Um, so that's all really important as we're wrestling.

SPEAKER_00 22:21

Yes. Um Debbie Maloney in the last panel discussion at Willen Flack, she shared how the Puritans were so adamant about this that they made sure that they memorized scripture so that it was in their hearts and then they were just ready for battle, like they were armed for for war against these spiritual attacks, even um, and the sufferings and hardships that life bring. Um, so I think that's also really encouraging too of like, yeah, we do have to what is that? There's a saying, it's like make peace when it's not war or something. How does that go?

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Oh, I'm not sure. I know I know what you mean, but I don't know if I know it. I know, I don't know it.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

I don't know it either, but it's true. Like we can't expect ourselves to be extremely strong and ready when we've been blown um by something massive as as a marriage falling apart, as a miscarriage, I mean you name it, um we're gonna be weak there. Um and so we know that in our weakness, he is strong and we can um we can just get ready for battle with his word, with his truth, with his goodness, um, and not rely on our own strength. Um so I guess that brings us to the the point that you made in that teaching. It's the prosperity gospel in our hearts. That was huge for me. Um, because uh again, like the prosperity gospel, it can seem like it's something out there, like, oh, the teacher told us that um we just have to believe more or you know, we just have to, whatever it is. But there's a prosperity gospel in our hearts, and it's not greater than the promises of God. So that's what you shared. Can you expound on that?

SPEAKER_01 24:06

Yeah, yep. Um yeah, I think when I grew up learning about the prosperity gospel, I thought it was like that preacher on TV that says, if you give me your money, give it to God, then you know, God will give money back to you. Or if you are obedient, then you'll have, you know, health, wealth, and happiness. So I thought that I wasn't following the prosperity gospel because I thought I understood the real gospel. And I did. Um, but I think it was just exposed when I started to walk through this disappointment with God that I was actually believing a lie. And I was in some ways worshiping a God of my own making. I thought that if I did everything how I was supposed to do it, that God would give me the desires of my heart. And those desires were good. Like God honors those that are faithful to their marriage vows. He um or he he wants us to be faithful to our marriage vows. Like those are scriptural things that we should live up to. Um, but when things start to fall apart because of the brokenness in the world, we don't, we don't want to unravel our faith as well. Um so there were some um promises that I felt like I clung to, and there's lots of promises in scripture, but there's just a few that I think are particularly helpful. Um the first is he promises to be near to us. Psalms 119, 150 through 151 says, They draw near who persecute me with evil purpose. They are far from your law, but you are near, O Lord, and all your commandments are true. We don't worship a God who is far off from our suffering. He lived a human existence, was tempted like we are tempted, and experienced loss and grief and pain. John 17 is um his prayer right before he goes to the cross, and in that prayer, he's lifting us, believers, up, because he knows there's a fragile path before us. He knows that all of our suffering won't be solved in this life. And he even asked God the Father to remove the cup of suffering from him, the cross. He was answered with a no. Um Hebrews explains um this verse in Hebrews 4, for we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who in every respect has been tested as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore approach the throne of grace with boldness, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need. He is a good father, not because he takes away all pain, but because he is near to us in it. Um a second promise that has been helpful is that he promises mercy and steadfast love. Psalm 119, 156. Your compassion, Lord, is great. Preserve my life according to your laws. So, what good is it if God is near to us, but he doesn't also love us? We should be afraid of a God that is near but not compassionate. And scripture tells us that he's both. His mercy and love forgive our sins, even though we deserve punishment. And a common misconception is that we open our Bible and we first look for ourselves. We first ask the question, how does this passage apply to me? But the scriptures are not primarily a story about us, they are a story about God. And the whole meta-narrative of scripture is continually pointing us to what God's kingdom is like. The kingdom of God is not governed like how we would govern, it's upside down. We live according to God's laws. His mercy is the forgiveness of our sin debt, and his forever love is shown in what he did for us on the cross. He loves us, and it's important to define this love because we could define it all different ways in our culture and time. Um, his love is defined by what he does for us at the cross. Um, and then that is um similar to this third point that he promises to fulfill our greatest need, which is salvation. First Thessalonians 5, 9 through 10. For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we might live with him. So if we ask ourselves, what if our purest and most sincere prayers are never answered with a yes? What if our worst case scenarios come to fruition? How will we function? And is God worth following? Um, there's a passage in John, and it was very comforting then, and it continues to be comforting. Um, Jesus was preaching to the multitudes, and he shared some really hard teaching. Many of the crowds left and stopped following him. So Jesus turned to his disciples and asked them if they were going to leave too. And Peter responded, To whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. We have come to believe and know that you are the Holy One of God. But it's really tempting to leave the faith when we experience immense pain and loss. It's an understatement, really, to say that life is hard. Um, it's heartbreaking, devastating, confusing, depressing. Like in all of the wonderful gifts, there are those um things too that that we're faced with. And where do we go when we feel like we've come to the end of ourselves and when we feel like God has failed us? And there's no else we can go. We get to go to the Lord with the words of eternal life.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

Yeah. That's that's so good because along it it ties back to the prosperity gospel thing of like disappointments and sufferings, they make us rethink like, what am I actually following? Right. Like, is this gospel just something that I'm I've attached to my ideals because life is going well for me? Or do I really believe that he like where else can I go? Yeah, like I there's nowhere else for me to turn. And that salvation really is the best gift that we will ever receive. Yep, yeah. And just believing that to the core of who we are as people saved by the worst possible outcome, um, which is an existence apart from God. Um that that really is the best thing that we will ever get. Yep. Um, and so yeah, suffering really reminds us of that truth. Um so there's one more promise, right?

SPEAKER_01 30:24

Yeah, so this is less of a promise and a little bit more of um uh a comfort because sometimes, you know, it's been uh I don't know how many years, almost 20 years since I was married the first time. And so sometimes when you kind of synthesize everything for a story to write or record for someone on a podcast, it can sound very linear and very like, um, oh, well, that must have been easy for you to hold on to those promises. And it's not, it's there's a lot of ups and downs, there's starts and stops, there's mistakes, there's sin. Um, it's not something that we can just set and forget. And even outside of that hard season, I still have to remind myself of these truths. And an encouraging story in scripture was of John the Baptist. John the Baptist was the prophet that directly preceded Jesus, and he paved the way for him, he baptized him. You know, if anyone should have remembered who Jesus is, it should have been John the Baptist. And shortly after Jesus begins his earthly ministry, John is put in prison because of an evil plot. And as he sits suffering, awaiting his execution, he experiences fear and doubt. And John sends his disciples to Jesus to ask him this question. In Matthew 11, 3, he says, Are you the one who is to come? Or shall we look for another? John is wondering if he got it wrong.

SPEAKER_00 31:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:47

And Jesus doesn't reply with exasperation or scolding. Sometimes when the um the Pharisees try to trap Jesus, he does reply a lot more tersely, but he's not talking to a Pharisee, he's talking to his friend John the Baptist, and he gently speaks back to him the gospel promises. Matthew 11 says, Go and tell John what you hear and see. The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk. Leopards are cleansed, and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them. And blessed is the one who is not offended by me. Jesus sees John in his suffering and reminds him of who he is, the Messiah. He's the one that will save our souls.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

Wow, that is so good. Oh my gosh, I just I want to sit with that for a little bit. Um, because how many times have I doubted? Like, is are you really the one that and I love how you just reminded us all of his gentle response to us. And um I guess that's just so encouraging. Like, if you have the disappointment, if you have the doubt, you can bring it to the person that that cares and will respond gently to you. Um so I guess I'd love to um I'd love to hear, obviously, like you said, it's it's not linear, it's not like this happened in the past and now here's my reality, but I would love for you to wrap up our conversation with your present-day circumstance. Like, how has the Lord shown throughout this? Now it's over a decade, it's like 20 years, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:28

Yeah, I yeah, it's been close, it's getting close to 20 years since I was first married.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

Yeah, so like through this process, how has God shown his faithfulness to you? I mean, you've shared the promises that he's secured in your heart through it as like a lamppost for your feet. Um, how has he been faithful to your story? How has he sanctified your life? Um I don't know, how has he been savior to you?

SPEAKER_01 33:54

Well, he keeps teaching me to rely on him. These these years, the the learning was so visceral that actually in 2024, my husband and I and our family walked through just like a bunch of weird medical stuff. Some of it, uh, most of it has been resolved, but it was just like one thing after another. And I think I thought, I've already learned all of these things, but I had to relearn it in that season as well. And I have to continue relearning it. Um, it's not something that we can just set aside and say, I've learned that lesson and now I'm moving on. Um and it's just it's beautiful that I've seen God hold me through my darkest moments. So there is a little bit more levity when we walk through something else hard. He has shown himself to be faithful even when my circumstances say stay the same. And so he's taught me that I can continue to trust him. I can look back and see what he's done. And it gives me more trust and more hope for what he'll do in the future. And um, like I said at the beginning, I have three kids and I'm in a really wonderful marriage. Um, Nathan sometimes is like, tell people we're happy. Because I always talk about suffering. Um, but you guys are great. I love seeing your family.

SPEAKER_00 35:09

I I can tell they're I can second that they're happy.

SPEAKER_01 35:11

He's like, You always talk about sad things. Um, but even if I didn't have those things, God would still be faithful. My family now feels like an extravagant gift, um, an undeserved gift. If I had stayed a divorced single mom for the rest of my life, God would have continued to be faithful. And um, there's also been some healing with my ex-husband. There have been some long prayed-for apologies, and I believe God is restoring things for him as well. He's a really involved and good dad to our son, and even with the brokenness we both faced, I do believe that God um has a plan for him and what he's doing as well. And also just say the walking through grief is not really something anyone wants to do, but there is a closeness with God at those times that is visceral. And sometimes in happy seasons, you can miss the rawness of your dependence on him in the hard seasons. And those years were very painful, but I'm grateful that God used them to grow my faith and sanctify me in a way that I'm not sure if that would have happened otherwise, or maybe he would have used something else. But I'm I feel like it's his kindness that uh he he used that time um to grow me.

SPEAKER_00 36:27

So yeah, like he doesn't he doesn't have to meet us there, right? Like he doesn't have to reveal things in our heart or uh be a comfort in those dark places, but I don't know, he really is like who like who else really is there in those dark places, the way that he is. Um and it's just our willingness to wait on him um when the answer is not, you know, right away what we expect it to be, but to just trust that his answer is a good one. And I love how you mentioned Jesus also hearing a know. And it's like not my will, but yours. And that was still a good answer. Um so thank you, Casey. Is there anything else you want to share about that or anything that comes to mind?

SPEAKER_01 37:20

I don't know if I do have anything else that comes to mind, but I appreciate being given the opportunity to share because it it does feel like one of the ways that God uses our pain is to be able to help people. So I hope it's helpful um to be able to share what God can teach us.

SPEAKER_00 37:36

Yeah, I know, I know it will be. So thank you so much for sharing. Um thank you, thank you, thank you. Um, okay, so I do have closing questions for you. This has kind of become like our thing around here on the Woolen Flax podcast. Um, and this may sound extremely selfish on my end, but um I've I've worked with you and I know that you have just such a handle on time management and the skills revolving it. So can you just share with all of us that are needy in this department what are your habits in regard to time management?

SPEAKER_01 38:10

I love time management. It's my favorite. I'm so glad you asked. Um, so I think the first thing is asking what is your time for? So we can, you know, have all these hacks and routines for our time, but if we don't first prioritize what our values are and we don't first discern what God wants us to do with our time, we'll waste a lot of time doing things that don't align with whatever assignment God has us on. So I'm sure there's tools out there to help discerning um where God has placed you, but a lot of times discerning what God has for you is like the things that are non-negotiable, like maybe you're married, maybe you have kids, whatever your job is, those are things that God has given us and we can prioritize whatever mission He has us on. Um and then when you start to make decisions for calendaring events or things you should do at your home or where you should give your money, like all of those things, then they can line up with the values that you've already discerned. And those values can change. Like I guess, like your main, you know, values that line up with scripture don't change, but your values for where you use your time can change in seasonality. Um and then I guess just practically, I have three different things that I use when I'm tracking my time. So my Google Calendar, I use just for all my appointments and things that are kind of non-negotiables where I need to be at different times.

SPEAKER_00 39:31

And you put everything in your calendar or like how do you use that?

SPEAKER_01 39:33

I basically put appointments. I will block out homeschool. Okay. And then I put in appointments. Like this is somewhere I have to drive to. I'm not typically putting to-do list items at my home on my calendar unless it's something that like my husband and I need to do together. Like we just had um a house project where we had to rearrange a bunch of stuff. So that I blocked out, like, hey, I know this Sunday afternoon we're gonna have to use for this because contractors are coming Monday morning. So um sometimes I'll use my Google Calendar for like to-dos, but most of the time it's kind of the physical moving pieces of where do we all need to be.

SPEAKER_02 40:07

Right.

SPEAKER_01 40:08

And then as far as keeping track of my to-do list items, I have an app. It's just the it's a Microsoft to-do app, but you could use anything. The app isn't important, it's just where you're capturing everything. And I'll just anytime something comes to mind, it goes in my app. Whether I actually do it or not, it gets it out of my brain and I put it in my app. Yeah, that's helpful. I do have that organized by um due date as well. I have some different folders where if there's something that's farther along the line, like in a few months or next year, that I want to do, but I don't want to see it every day because if I see it, it stresses me out. Then I can move it to a different spot in the app with a a due date on it. So something like I want to make Christmas cards next year. I've forgotten the last few years to do Christmas cards. And when they started rolling in in November, I was like, dang it. Right. I wanted to do that. So I put it on my to-do list for next like October to start thinking about it. So that's great. Um, and then what helps me in my day today is I have a paper calendar that's set up where each page is a different day of the week. And then it's um, it's an hourly, like if you look for hourly um calendars, and I'll use time blocking. And you can look up lots of people talk about time blocking, so you can look that up. But basically, you're scaffolding your whole day. So I'll put in things that take up our time, as simple as lunch, like feeding me and the three kids takes about an hour. Um, so I'll put lunch on the calendar. I put when we're homeschooling, I put if there's an appointment we need to get to, and then in between all of those non-negotiables, then I can start to see what what other things can I add to my day. Is this a day where I need to get Grace Road work done? Is this a day I need to clean something? Um, so time blocking each night on paper the night before helps a lot. Um and I just want to pause really.

SPEAKER_00 41:56

I want everyone to know like this is we are speaking to literally, I don't know if I've met someone with more of an administrative gift than Casey. So this is like, I don't know, this is like a fire hose, right? So I'm just so thankful. Continue.

SPEAKER_01 42:15

Okay. So that yeah, I mean, that's kind of like I've put one time somebody asked me a question about like how I spend my time and I went into a little bit of like a monologue, and she was like, You've put a lot of thought into this. And I said, Yeah, yeah. So good. Um amazing. So those are kind of like the practical, um, some of the tools I guess I use. And then I would say also if you have kids, train them to play independently. It's really possible and it's really good for them. Not that you neglect them, but to train them to play independently so that you can keep up with your household or whatever you need to get done in the midst of them and also include them, um, work together with them. Sometimes that slows you down, especially when they're little, but that is a really valuable way that you can invest in your kids is working together. Um, sometimes it can be really tempting to be like, I just I can't get anything done unless like the screen's on or I have a babysitter or something. And there are some things that you really need to have focused brain power that you can't be interrupted. But there's a lot that you can do with them around that you can just train them to play independently or work side by side with you. Um so that's helpful once you have kids to feel like you can still move about your life with your kids involved. Yeah. Um also, like two more silly resources is the lazy genius, if you've ever heard of her. Some of her older stuff. It's a person. Yeah. So her name is Kendra Adachi, and then she has like a kind of like a life philosophy called being lazy about the things that don't matter and a genius about the things that do. So she has a lot of really cool time management stuff. Some of her newer podcasts, I think, are a little like floofy, but some of her older stuff I think is more practical. Um, and then we recently got a home phone so that I can put my cell phone on a whole different floor of the house. Nice. Um, so that I feel, you know, when you just you've complete something and then you've got a lull in what you're supposed to do next, and you pick up your phone and you're thinking, my phone surely is gonna tell me what I need to do. And it's probably not. It's just gonna distract you. So I often keep my phone on a whole nother floor of the house. And then we have this home phone, it's called Ula. It's like six bucks a month that use yours your Wi-Fi, and that helps like if my husband calls or we want to call grandma or whatever, we can still have a phone in the house without me being so glued to my smartphone. So that's great.

SPEAKER_00 44:42

Yeah. Wow, wow, wow. Okay. I'm definitely gonna think that over. Make some make some changes here. I love what you said about um the independent play for the kids because it could be so easy for us to like blame them for the reasons why we're not able to get things done. But it's like they are a part of our lives, they are a blessing, and we can work together and with them.

SPEAKER_01 45:04

And they slow us down too in a good way. Like I'm not as productive now with three kids as I was with one kid. Yeah. So, or before kids. So, and that's good. It's good for us to nurture our relationships with them at the expense of productivity. Um, but also, you know, we live in the world that we have to get things accomplished. So inside of that, they can be part of it.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

So um, oh yeah, that's so good. We can talk about that probably forever, but yeah, um, let's see. Um, okay, second question. Probably another selfish question. But um, can you tell me a little bit about like how you've come to process homeschooling for yourself? Like how you chose curriculum and how you've developed rhythms around it. Um, I haven't started like fully yet. I'm doing like preschool stuff, so it's not like too big of a deal for us right now, but you know, next year's right around the corner. So share with me.

SPEAKER_01 46:02

Yeah, so we have been homeschooling for five years. Um we have a our oldest is a fifth grader. And so whenever someone asks me about homeschooling, I do have a big asterisk that my oldest is in fifth grade. So my advice only goes so far. And a lot of what I've learned and what I feel like does work well is stuff I've learned from veteran moms. Either Were you homeschooled? I wasn't. Okay. Um my mom, I have there's six kids in my family. My mom homeschooled my younger five siblings. By the time she started homeschooling, I was in 10th grade. Okay. And I just continued, I was in public school. I continued all the way through. Um, but I got to watch her homeschool and I get to ask her questions about it. And then I also have read a lot of homeschooling books with like, you know, moms that have 12 kids and have graduated all of them. So um, but I think the main thing, especially where you're at now, Danielle, of like thinking about homeschool is taking time to assess your goals and values and why you want to homeschool. Because there will be hard days and hard seasons. And so if you have really um laid out why you want to homeschool, it helps you go back to that why when you hit a roadblock and you just won't be able to do it all. Um, and I would say too, there's a lot of like really aesthetic homeschoolers online that is really fun to look and see what other people are doing with their homeschool, but just make sure that you're following someone that in some ways aligns with what your family wants to do and wants to wants to accomplish. Um, if you see someone doing like a little house on the prairie tea party with homemade bonnets, and that looks really cool. And for that family, it's really fun. Right. But if that doesn't sound fun to you, you don't have to do it. Right. And that's something that I've had to really kind of put blinders on because I can see what other people are doing and think, oh, am I supposed to be doing that? Right. Um, and there is kind of a difference between gaining advice and wisdom and then also just comparing and feeling overwhelmed if you're not doing all the things. Right. Um, and I think that goes the same for curriculum. If you're looking at it online and it looks overwhelming or boring or too complicated, then you probably also won't want to do it when your toddler is crying and your fifth grader is bored. So try to find curriculum that excites you and excites your kids and feels like you're home. So that when you're, you know, doing it Monday through Friday for nine months or whatever, it's it's something that you really are excited to dig into. Um, something else about curriculum I learned by somebody told me this after like three years into homeschool. Someone was like, you know, you don't have to complete all the curriculum, right? And I was like, What? We're doing every single question. So it really is a tool that you can use to grow you and your kid. It's not, it doesn't have to be a slave master. So um, you don't have to use every single part because some curriculum has a lot of pieces and can be really overwhelming, right? So use what is going to work and don't use what isn't going to work. Um, allow it to help you and not control you.

SPEAKER_00 49:05

Okay, I have a question about that. Like, yeah, do you feel fearful at times of like, is my kid? I mean, I know you have to do assessments uh throughout the year, but I don't know. I guess as I'm getting closer and closer to doing homeschool, I'm like kind of fearful. Like, am I the best teacher for them?

SPEAKER_01 49:24

Like here's what's nice about the little years is it's a it's very simple. And most of what homeschoolers will say in the little years, like pre-K, kindergarten, even first grade, is it's a lot of play. It's a lot of like exploring and play, and um, you're starting to learn things like phonics, but you don't you don't want to ruin your kids' love of learning, um, especially in the little years. So you get some time to kind of get your feet wet. Yeah. Um, and then I'm fearful that I'm messing up my kids almost all the time. So I'm often talking to, like I said, veteran homeschool moms or reading books because I it is while homeschool is flexible, it needs to be a discipline. I think it's something that you still have to take seriously because, like you said, you're you're educating your kids and you want to do that really well. Um, but there's a lot of flexibility, and I think as long as you're hitting the values that you've set out, like for us, for example, our values are like we want our kids to love learning. I mean, we want them to be employable, but if you love learning, then you can learn anything. We want them to follow God and know Him, and we want our family to be connected and have strong relationships. So if you're falling back on those things, it does kind of help inform some of the academic part. Um, and yeah, there is that fear, and I think that it's the same fear that you could have really in any season of life. And you do your best, you see search wisdom, you ask the Lord to discern, to help him discern what to do and what not to do, and then you trust him in in the outcome. So um, those are lessons that I'm learning very vividly right now. Um, I I feel like there are things about our homeschool that I'm always kind of tinkering with, like trying to make it run better and work better and make it effective. And there's a lot of discernment which can feel um a little overwhelming sometimes, but also really cool that you get to be the one to teach your kid. Yeah. And um, you get to be the one that molds their academics based on who they are, what their gifts are, where their weaknesses are, what their learning style is like. And the you do get like what I was saying about you don't have to do all the curriculum, you do get more comfortable with navigating. Okay, my kid is really good at spelling, so maybe we're not gonna do the whole spelling workbook.

SPEAKER_02 51:52

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 51:53

Um, and we're gonna focus more on reading comprehension that I know he's struggling with more or whatever. So you do get more comfortable with some of that.

SPEAKER_00 52:01

I also want to say this is for all the mamas that I've talked to, you know who you are, that we're always talking about homeschool things like this. It's not for anyone that feels like they've already decided they don't want to homeschool. I'm not pressuring or putting this on anyone. Yeah. Um, just being very selfish in my in our closing questions right now.

SPEAKER_01 52:21

Um and there's also, I'll just like list off really quickly some homeschool moms that have been, you know, around the block and know what they're doing. So Little by Little Homeschool is a podcast by Lee Nguyen. Durenda Wilson has a ton of books that are good. Sally Clarkson has good books. There's a book called Homeschooling from Rest, another book called Eight Grade Smarts for Homeschoolers, which talks about different learning styles. And then there's a book called Home Learning Year by Year, which is really just like um a resource that has a lot of curriculum ideas, and it also has like these are the types of things your kindergartner could learn, the types of things your sixth grader could learn.

SPEAKER_00 52:56

So there's a lot of good things. Okay, so it kind of just um it shows you what's possible, like it sets your expectation kind of.

SPEAKER_01 53:04

Yeah, kind of like here's what I never I don't want to say the word should, but sort of here's what they should be learning at this age, and obviously, you know, you take that with a grain of salt, but it'll kind of say because you're not necessarily in a public school setting, it might say a lot of times at fifth grade, they're starting to learn Shakespeare. So then you can start to mix in some of that if you want to. Um, so it's I like it because it's a finite resource. If you get on the internet, there's a lot of cool things on the internet, but it can just feel overwhelming with how much is there. So the book just feels finite, like there's only so many ideas in this particular realm. So cool.

SPEAKER_00 53:44

That's all for that one. Yeah, yeah. Thank you so much. I'm sure I'm really appreciative. Okay. Um, and I guess we'll close out with a question about you. Like, tell us who you are, tell us what you like and what your interests are, and I guess just describe yourself. Like, we know that you're like the admin queen, but what else is there?

SPEAKER_01 54:05

Yeah, so um I really like being home. I'm very introverted. Um, when my my third baby was born, uh, someone brought a meal and she was asking me like how I was, and I was like, I don't think I've left the house in a week. And she was really concerned. She was like, Are you okay? And I said, actually, like I love it. I'm so pleased to just be here with my little my little guys. So um, yeah, and uh I love spending time with Nathan and our kids, and we both have really big extended family, so we often do a lot with them. There's often birthday parties and different gatherings. Beautiful. Um I really love to read, and just quiet mornings are really my brain turns on if I can get just like a quiet morning. Um, I love rock climbing, and I haven't been in a long time since our second was born, but I'm hoping to get back soon. And that's so cool. I know. What do you like about it? I like I found it when I was a single mom. One of my friends, um, she used to travel the country rock climbing, and she told me that she was a rock climber. And at the time I was like, is that just for like kids' birthday parties? Like I didn't know rock climbing was like a sport. Right. Um, and so I went with her and I just I fell in love with it. What's cool is it's like a mental puzzle as well as a physical puzzle. You're trying to or a physical exercise, you're trying to figure out how to get up the wall. And I would walk in, climb for a few hours with friends, and then as soon as I walked out, my life like re-downloaded into my head. It was just very very um mentally like refreshing. So um, I'd like to get back to it at some point, but it's harder with lots of littles. So sure. Um, and yeah, I mean, I love writing. Um, I've written a handful of things about the topic we just discussed, and so I do that here and there, not as much right now, though I do still write for She Reads Truth. I do devotionals for them a few times a year. Um yeah, I just kind of what you said about me being efficient. I I can just really work at a frenetic pace, and um, it's a discipline for me to implement Sabbath and rest and slow down and just look at my kids' little eyes and their little teethy smiles and not try to squeeze productivity out of every um inch of every day. So that's really something that um I enjoy doing is just being a mom and just getting to experience their childhood with them. And um Nathan and I talk often about how we just feel like we're living some really special years. They're tiring, but special.

SPEAKER_00 56:41

So look and you'll look back and just be like, wow, yeah. We did that, we got to do it. I know. So special. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah, thanks for asking. I feel like I know you a little bit more now. Um, okay, so now we've reached the end and it's the inside scoop. And this is okay, so this is the inside scoop, but instead of the gossip version, it's the confession version where we take the inside out. So, Casey, what is something in you that God is working out of you?

SPEAKER_01 57:12

I feel like he's I'm just beginning to process like aging, which maybe sounds strange because I'm not like old. I and I think that um I have a lot more years before I I just think that a lot we're all younger than we think, but I I am like watching my parents get older and my body feels different. It felt different in this last pregnancy than it did with my first. And my kids just feel like they're growing at a faster and faster pace. And so I'm sort of processing what like what next season we're entering into with kids growing and everyone around us aging, um, and what that all means. And I saw that Jen Wilken wrote a book about it, so whenever that comes out, I'll probably read it, but also I should process it with the Lord first.

SPEAKER_00 57:58

So um, but yeah, that was that's such a good point too. Like when time feels finite and when we feel finite, right? When we start to feel the weakness in our bodies. Um Wow, that's really cool. I'll be praying for you for that and for me too, because I think about it often too. And again, I'm I just turned 30 this year, but I think 30 was a big year for me. Like it's a big three-zero, you know, I'm no longer 20. So and I feel like 20s, there's a lot of grace on the 20s because it's like you can figure things out, you can you've got time, you know. And it's like, okay, 30. I don't know. I look back on how I viewed people at 30 when I was younger. Uh just expected them to be like really old, complete and know everything that they need to know.

SPEAKER_01 58:48

I know that's true. You kind of, whatever age you get to, that in your mind you thought was like old, or like you said, some type of version of wisdom, and you're like, oh no, that's me now.

SPEAKER_00 58:58

Right. And I don't feel like I know anything. I know it's true. Thanks for sharing that. Um, well, that is all for this episode. Don't forget to check out the show notes for additional resources. Until next time, and thank you, Casey.

SPEAKER_01 59:12

Thank you, Danielle. It's really been wonderful to chat with you. Same here. Grace in peace.