Conflict Resolution: Why Humility Is the Only Way Through | Ep. 27

Most arguments don't fail because people ran out of words — they fail because nobody was willing to stop trying to win.

Rahul Pillay explores why ego is the real barrier to resolving conflict, drawing on mentorship, marriage, and hard-earned personal experience. Van Pillay brings her background as a therapist to explain how the patterns we default to under pressure — criticism, contempt, defensiveness, withdrawal — are the exact patterns that quietly erode even strong relationships over time.

The conversation gets practical fast. They walk through what humility actually looks like in the middle of an argument, why empathy is not the same as surrender, and what researcher John Gottman's decades of couples research reveals about the communication habits that predict whether a relationship will last.

If you've ever felt like conflict just keeps circling without landing, this episode gives you a new place to start — not with better words, but with a different posture entirely.

Find us on Spotify @pillayplacepodcast

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Can I hide is hiding a good one? Like can I hide from conflict?

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Is it working for you?

SPEAKER_02 0:08

How long can I hide?

SPEAKER_00 0:11

Uh well there are some people that have been hiding for a very long time. The very first thing you need to solve any conflict isn't a communication skill. It's actually like humility. You won't be able to solve anything without it. And this requires like the depth of your ego.

SPEAKER_03 0:32

Victimizing your stuff actually doesn't help you be free. The idea is, you know, when God created family, it was about freedom. So without freedom, we're not really enjoying life. Humility is the only way to really initiate that connection. Hi everybody, welcome to the Pillet Place podcast. My name is Rahul, and this is my beautiful wife Van. And um at the Pillet Place, our mission and vision is to really um instill the values of leaving a legacy of faith, family, and finance. And we really try to focus on helping you with the practical aspects of it. So, uh, babe, what are we talking about today?

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Well, something very practical. Okay. Conflict resolution. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:24

Um can I hide is hiding a good one? Like, can I hide from conflict?

SPEAKER_00 1:29

Is it working for you?

SPEAKER_02 1:33

How long can I hide?

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Uh well, there are some people that have been hiding for a very long time. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, but that doesn't show any fruit in their relationships. No. Right. Uh, you know, the conflict resolution is important because it's more, it's not just a skill that you learn and have. I feel like it's personal sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 2:00

Sorry, can you can you kind of break it down? What does conflict resolution mean? And how why is that so important? I mean, I I know, but like I'm just asking.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

Do you know? Maybe I don't. Well, I think of okay, I think together we have had conflict and we resolve them very well together. Yeah. Right. And so one of the things that um that people miss is that when there is a conflict, they're like, how do I communicate this? Right? How do I come how do I shake how do I show them my point? Yeah. How do I basically say, how do I show them that I'm right? And um that's that's not the point. The very first thing you need to solve any conflict isn't a communication skill. It's actually like humility.

SPEAKER_03 3:01

Wow. I'm taking notes for myself in this case.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

Because you won't be able to solve anything without it.

SPEAKER_03 3:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Okay. And this requires like the death of your ego.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

Okay. Because if you don't have humility and the and if you don't have, if your ego is like living it up in you, you won't be able to hear and understand the other person's view. And you know, you may be right, but you're never always right. And the point isn't right, and it isn't about being right, it's actually about connection.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

And you know, this one of the things that when I was in that um, I think we were dating at the time. Remember, I would go up to Stanford every Tuesday night to do like this training at Stanford. And um the my mentor there, he always tells me, you gotta park your ego at the door. Like, because I'm walking in, I have really smart people around me, and there's always a piece of you that wants to kind of like prove, I got this, I know this, I'm good enough, right? But you can't learn and you can't understand if you don't have humility to take in that I need to learn this, I don't have it all together, and I and you gotta park that at the door. And it's really similar to how when there is a conflict, it's not about you being right, it's actually self-a very selfless move. Because you're not trying to prove that you are right, you're trying to understand where that person is coming from.

SPEAKER_03 4:48

Yeah. And um I mean, what you said is so powerful because it it obviously helps our marriage. Um uh, you know, being married to a therapist is also a death to your ego. So, so if for those of you that are married to therapists, we can start our own group and talk about this. Um but it is it is true. Uh, I mean, I learned this early on in my marriages that even blaming, you know, he did this and she did this. And rightfully so, they may have done those things to you, but reality is it still makes you right and it avoids the even the acceptance of humility. And you you really do have to stop blaming and look internally. And I'm not saying find false in yourself, but humility, the first part of humility is simply because self-blame is not gonna get you anywhere, I think. No, that's just vic that's victimizing yourself, right? Like victimizing yourself actually doesn't help you be free. The idea is, you know, when God created family, it was about freedom. You know, relationship with him is freedom. So without freedom, we're not really enjoying life. So it's important for us to understand what conflict resolution is all about. And it's about unity, it's about what you said, it's about the connection. And we, you know, I'm not perfect at this by any means. But with our with our kids, we've been intentionally trying to create connection with them. It's about relationship. And I fail miserably when I yell at them or whatever. But point is, humility is the only way to really initiate that connection.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

It does because it gives the other person, it gives you, you're giving yourself the opportunity to understand someone else's world, someone else's perspective, and someone else's experience without any judgment. Because the second you have any judgment or you're making a judgment to it, you are take you are now outside of understanding. Yeah, so can I ask you a sorry judging mode?

SPEAKER_03 7:05

Yeah, sorry to cut cut her off here. But so practically speaking, how do I what does this humility humility look like? Well let's say let's say a couple isn't isn't an argument.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

Well, the humility takes maturity. Okay, it's not not maturity in terms of age, but in being comfortable with your emotions. It takes awareness of yourself and accepting that we are all a work in progress.

SPEAKER_03 7:40

So there could be some faults or of mine is one way to think about it, right? Finding a grain of truth in the way that the other person is thinking or believing is another. Yeah. Right, okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

Yeah. And um and humility is also an active choice. It's not just a feeling, it's a visible intentional choice. And so it it's you That's good. You because the ego will try to wake up and you will naturally want to be right. If it's not already, yeah, if not already. And so, I mean, I love this mentor that I had because he's constantly, he's like, check your ego at the door, and then go in, you know, like check your ego at the door. And um, and it's it just kind of stayed with me. Uh the so you are you can do this while holding your own experience. Yeah, like you can understand someone else's experience. It it doesn't mean that you leave yourself aside and it's all up, it's all it's not about you because a relationship takes two or more, right? If you're talking about like work relationships or something like that. But the second you start to make your own judgment, you actually step out of connection. And so an um Can you use an example? Yeah, so an example, I was um oh yeah, I was training a group for um like a lay counseling group um in at a church in California. And at the time I didn't have, did I have my private practice? I did. At the time I did have my private practice, but um prior to my private practice, I was working at a jail with very um like high profile like inmates that are there kind of waiting for their their time. And a lot of them have, you know, I read their files and their records, and it's like really gruesome things that they, you know, they're like rapists or just a lot of of of crimes. And um, and so I had a question, one of the counselee asked me, so how do you give them empathy? Like if they have done such horrible things, right? And I just go the second you start to judge them, then you're outside of you're unable to connect. That's a tough one, but right, because now you have to leave you have to leave yourself aside in some ways, yeah, right, so that you can truly understand them. I wasn't mean to them. I wasn't, I mean, I had to like any any position, I think it's always important to guard up a l on on what you're doing. Well, you gotta be sensible, yeah, and who you're with, but like you can still connect, yeah, right. You can still understand where they're coming from.

SPEAKER_03 10:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

If you choose to.

SPEAKER_03 10:47

And and that is the that is the difference between empathy and sympathy, right? Empathy is feeling with someone. Sympathy is feeling for someone, yeah. Right. And I've learned that real empathy, and I and I suck at this, and you are you will be the first to tell me I suck at conflict resolution. But um empathy is one of the traits that I've learned from you, right? And it's trying to genuinely find a grain of truth in the other person. Whatever it is that they're feeling, believing, understanding, you know, and um like I can I can easily identify with executives that have made mistakes, right? Like the decision, and sometimes they don't want to correct because there's so much at stake. Yeah, right. I can empathize with that because I'm in that field, but I could also empathize with people that are addicted, how lost they are. Because I've been there. So, question to you is how do you empathize with somebody that in the moment I'm talking about just like a married couple, okay? If we were to help them right this minute, and they're fighting and they're not seeing eye to eye, how do you empathize with the other person?

SPEAKER_00 12:08

You put your guards down. Do you remember that one time? I don't even know what we were arguing about, but it was like 20 minutes minutes into the argument. We're in the car, you're driving, I'm in the passenger, and you were at it. You were so mad about something. I don't even know what we were arguing about.

SPEAKER_03 12:26

I remember, I think I was right.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

You were, and I was trying to make a point, like it's 20, 30 minutes in, and it was getting really tense. And I just go, like, I really don't want to do this, like I really don't want to be humble and like agree with you.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

I do remember.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

And I just go, and I go, but I just know, like, even like as a therapist, and I also just know that it wasn't working if if neither of us was going to be humble about this.

SPEAKER_02 13:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:03

So I take a deep breath and I just said something along the line of, you know what, babe? I made you really mad. And I disappointed you.

SPEAKER_03 13:15

Well, that was the grain of truth.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

And then, and then, because the thing is, like, once we agree on something, we can't argue anymore, right? But I remember seeing your shoulders, your body, and your jaw, you just go, and then you caught yourself and you're like, you did that thing that you did.

SPEAKER_03 13:34

Which is what you did.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

I did. Well, I did, but not as not as a like a skill. Oh, it's kind of like a skill, right? But not out of like not superficially. I did it because I actually go, you know, I did, I did piss you off, I did disappoint you, whatever that we were arguing about. Yeah, right. And you just felt immediately heard.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:03

When you felt heard, you felt more connected. That now we are back on the same team.

SPEAKER_01 14:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

But it took one of us, and it always has to be me.

SPEAKER_03 14:14

Always. Yes, she's always the bigger person. Let me go on record. Um, but let me let me let me just say one thing that I think is very important, especially if you're a parent. Listen, we as parents can yell at our children and get them to listen until there's a point in time where they grow up and there's no longer the ability to yell at them or instill them through drilling what you're saying. The best way for you to really um get your message across, or not get your message across, but really connect with them is this way is to find a way to essentially connect more than to just drill discipline more. And I and I'll be the first to to admit that I'm very guilty of drilling them. And I've seen you at work and how good of a relationship and connection you have with them, and they drive you nuts. I see it. Um, but reality is that connection is way more powerful, and and and you have a beautiful relationship with them, and I try to, but I've learned like even when it's the point of okay, you know what, son, you're right. How you see it is like you are right, I was wrong, or yes, you're right in that. I see how you're right, and just pausing there.

SPEAKER_00 15:37

But the thing is, it's not about being right.

SPEAKER_03 15:40

No, it's not, it's about it's about go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

It it's not about being right, it's about I get it.

SPEAKER_03 15:46

Yeah. That's the point that I'm making, is like it it wouldn't, I wouldn't even be able to see their point of view unless I put my guards down and focused on the main thing. Put my ego aside and focus on the main thing, which is a relationship with my kids.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

It's yeah, you know, there's this guy, I was um, he was in one of my parenting class and a parenting course that I was facilitating.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

And uh, you know, we learned these skills on how to connect with our kids. And I assigned them a homework. I was like, okay, when, you know, throughout the week, if this happens, like use this skill and then like report back. And he comes back and he was like, Well, I didn't use it with my kids, but I did use it with my wife. And I go, So what you do? And um he was he said that his wife was like really stressed out and complaining on all the things that she needs to do for the kids' school and registration and enrollment and taking classes, and she's just like super stressed out and like very angry about it and mad and just feels like she's on her own about this, right? And she's just complaining to him. And then he goes, You know what, honey? What you're doing is a lot of work, and it's probably so stressful. And she she paused and she just goes, You need to do that more often. He's winning, you know, and he was like, It worked, man. Yeah, and I go, Yeah, it's not about he didn't even try because his typical behavior would be, all right, well, let me help you, or let me like solving the problem. Right. But all she needed was honey, like that's a lot of work. Yeah, like somebody to understand her. It's just a line.

SPEAKER_03 17:35

It's actually empathy. It is feeling it with them.

SPEAKER_00 17:38

But yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:39

All right, what else you got?

SPEAKER_00 17:41

Um I have some I think I'll I think I think we can, I don't know if we have enough time to go into this. Like communication errors. Um, but you know, John Gottman, he's a psychologist known for his love lab, essentially a research lab where he sets up like cozy apartments and study couples. I think he started this in like 1970s and it's like a decade more long, like till like 80s, of studying um couples interaction, communication styles. And he came up with uh the four horsemen of the apocalypse. And it's interesting because you can he can he can predict if that marriage is going to last, and he's there's like a percent, like a 90% success rate. And uh so he mentioned four communication styles. The first one is when there is a conflict, uh you the the partner, or I guess one of the partner or both partners, like attacking the partner's character or personality, okay, rather than their specific behavior. An example you can think of is like you always think about yourself, right? You're you are kind of saying that you're selfish, you're attacking the character or the personality of that of your spouse or your partner.

SPEAKER_03 19:20

And even the word always.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

It's an all or nothing, yeah, right. And so versus, hey, when you don't ask about my day, it makes me feel unimportant. Right? Like you are stating a behavior instead of like the house is so messy, you didn't do anything all day, versus hey, can you please like wash the dishes? Like you're naming a behavior. There's a difference between a character, the character of a person and the behavior of a person. Character is like your identity, your behavior is something that you can fix, that you can change, you can grow.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:56

Right. Um, second one is contempt. This is attacking your partner's sense of self with the intent to insult. Okay. It comes out as like sarcasm, eye rolling, name-calling. In some ways, it's a form of disrespect. Right. It makes your partner feel minimized, belittled.

SPEAKER_03 20:19

Disrespect is dangerous.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

It is. It is. It makes them feel like belittled, right? And then that holds resentment.

SPEAKER_03 20:28

And it's hard to get um sustain a relationship with someone that you don't respect.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

We talked about this the other, yeah, the other day, right?

SPEAKER_03 20:37

Most of the failing marriages has a disrespect element, it's like the last level.

SPEAKER_00 20:43

Yeah, because you can't have much of a healthy relationship without a mutual respect.

SPEAKER_03 20:49

Yeah, so without the respect one of you is on your way out.

SPEAKER_00 20:52

Yeah. The next one is defensiveness. Um, this is when you are seeing yourself as a victim uh and blaming your partner. So oftentimes when we're blaming, we are defending ourselves. I only did this because you did that.

SPEAKER_01 21:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:12

You know, and the there's a flavor of blame. So it's important, and this takes humility too. It's like it's important to take responsibility and acknowledge like your part in the conflict.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:27

You know, like clearly we're both not happy right now. And I made you mad. And I, you know, like taking ownership to it will soften the situation.

SPEAKER_03 21:44

Well, yes. And what is it? Because if you have a smart wife or a therapist wife or both, you can't just like say blatant words to take ownership. You can't say you're clearly she'll ask you things like a why. Why? And you have to dig deeper and find the right answer. So so men be careful.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

You do have to dig deeper. Don't give me a surface level answer.

SPEAKER_03 22:15

Don't give a surface level answer that you heard in a podcast.

SPEAKER_00 22:21

The fourth is to me, I feel like it's the most um it's like sad. Like the most sad situation is stonewalling. And that is when you are withdrawing from the interaction and you're shutting down, you're kind of checked out.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:42

And it's like you hear one, it's like in one ear, out the other. And um because that communicates like hopelessness. Yeah. Um, like I'm checked out. I don't you can scream and yell and whatever, and it's just kind of yeah, mentally you're gone. You're gone. Yeah. You know, and that's really hard because there's just like it's hard to do. There's no hope in the relationship for you. Like you already feel hopeless. Like I'm just gonna play it out for the rest of the time here.

SPEAKER_03 23:13

Yeah, you're not in it.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

You're not in it anymore. There's no effort to even try. Um so, anyways, do you want to close this up?

SPEAKER_02 23:24

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

Um I hope that, you know, we hope that you found that helpful to kind of I guess examine the way we communicate and resolve problems in our in the relationships in our lives. And it's important to first look at ourselves with humility and humbleness, and then um kind of be aware of the words that are coming out because there are they are powerful and it does either hurt the relationship or build connection in the relationship.

SPEAKER_03 23:59

And you get to have a more fulfilling relationship all around you. You do, you know, and like our kids drive us crazy, but we can't wait to hang out with them because it's just just the desire to connect with them.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

Or even like with each other, like even with each other, us, right? And I one of the things that I appreciate about our relationship is like it has never like there was never name-calling, belittling, being disrespectful, or like criticizing, or even maybe there could be some blaming.

SPEAKER_03 24:32

There's a lot of blaming, but uh the because it starts from the the strive to unite, then to prove yourself right.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

Well, the mentality of like, hey, we're I'm on your team. Yeah, like we are striving for that unity, and if that takes humility and parking your ego at the door, so be it, because it's so worth it.

SPEAKER_03 24:58

All right, well, thanks for joining us. Please subscribe, hit the like button, and we'll see you next time.