Exercise and Cancer Recovery - Practical Tips for Fit Pros with Aaron Wyant

In this insightful interview, Dr. Erin Nitschke and Aaron Wyant explore the vital role of exercise professionals in cancer care. They discuss how to navigate fears, support long-term habits, and foster effective communication within the multidisciplinary team to enhance patient outcomes.

Connect with Aaron
Email: addwyant@gmail.com 
Website https://www.aaronwyant.com/ 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello, everyone. Welcome back to Fitness Education Online for the US and Canada. I am your host, Dr. Aaron Nietzsche, and I'm excited to welcome back my friend and colleague Aaron Wyant. The first time he was on the podcast, we started cracking open this topic of exercise oncology and how the health and exercise professional can work with a collaborative team and to support those clients that are experiencing something like some type of cancer. Either they're going through it, they're in treatment, or they have recovered from it. And we're bringing him back so we can dive more into the practical side of things and what it looks like for pros to kind of navigate some of that fear around working with clients in this population, helping them stay motivated and active, and dive into some of the other questions that we didn't have time to ask on the first one. So welcome back, Erin. I'm happy to have you here and excited for this conversation.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Likewise. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

Yeah, the two Erins back together again, right? So we left off last time talking a little bit about the rehabilitation part and then also how pros can be part of that collaborative care team for that particular client who is experiencing some sort of cancer battle. So this time, one of the first things I really want to better understand and communicate to our professionals is how can exercise professionals help these clients navigate their own fear and how you navigate your fear as the professional in working with clients who are in sort of this very sensitive, delicate health situation. What does what does that look like? How do we make that happen?

SPEAKER_01 1:38

Yeah, it's a great segue because we spoke about toward the end of our first conversation that one of the more common things that I hear from the qualified exercise professional is that there's a quite a bit of timid, you know, or fear. I don't want to call it fear. It's a little negative, but there's a hesitancy to want to just start in this population because it is a pretty high risk and emotionally draining sometimes profession to be in. So, you know, we we have to dial in on our own well-being and take care of ourselves, just like we are helping these patients or these clients take care of themselves. And I think that also ties in with our position on the collaborative collaborative care team continuum and being able to connect with the health professionals and and put forward a team effort in this service that we're providing on the exercise side, whether it's in the community-based setting or if you are actually in a clinical setting or part of a clinical program, the teamwork is what's going to help ease a lot of those nerves and having confidence in what we're doing and the patient having confidence in what their expectations are. And navigating that is different for every individual. It's different because there are, as we talked about, over 200 different types of cancer, um, multi-modalities of treatment. And it's really, as exercise is, you know, not a one-size-fits-all type of environment. We we always pride ourselves in being able to find what is most appropriate for our clients. It's the same with cancer and the cancer journey. It's not going to be the even if it's the same, uh, I think we spoke about this on the in the first conversation too, even if it's the same diagnosis and very similar treatment pathways, it hits people differently. And that can be different for, or that can be dependent on their support systems. So I would say one of the most influential things we can do is help them identify what their support systems are and who is there outside of the healthcare team, which is, you know, support system number one. That's going to bring a strong foundation of confidence. Us as an exercise professional, we get to see them more frequently. We get to interact with them, engage with them, hopefully encourage, motivate, uh, and induce a feeling of confidence or comfortability in their situation. But we also have to find paths outside of the hospital and outside of the gym for them to find comfortability and find support. So family and friends, caretakers is a big topic in cancer care. Is how do we take care of the caretakers at home? How do we make sure that those folks are also, because cancer is, you know, impactful in all lives that are associated with who's been diagnosed. So identifying those support systems is one of the most important things we can do. But day to day, it becomes more practical in just validation of what they're feeling. Communication is the biggest key. When you are working with a cancer patient, whether they're in treatment or after treatment, side effects can come and go and actually can be very delayed. For instance, radiotherapy side effects may not kick in until months after they've had the treatment. And so you have to really communicate closely to see how they're doing that day. I mean, if you're a good trainer, that's what you should be doing at the beginning of a session anyway, and making subtle adaptations, but it may be more than just subtle. You may have to scrap a plan that you have for the day and make adaptive adjustments and change things altogether based on where they're at, both physically and mentally. So validation of their feelings and and helping them understand that their family, their friends, their sleep, their nutrition, that all those pillars of lifestyle medicine that we now know are so impactful to chronic disease is still the same in the journey with cancer that we we can help to connect those dots for people and bring about uh just again a validation of how they feel. We help them recognize what challenges they're they're dealing with and actually voice those challenges back to the healthcare team. Again, all this care team continuum is is really more for the patient's benefit than anyone else's. And so if we can help to identify those challenges, maybe it's uh, you know, regarding something very invasive like a surgical scar and it's getting more limited. Maybe it has to do with things like peripheral neuropathy, which can be a side effect of chemotherapy or lymphedema, which can be a side effect of the extraction of lymphatic vessels and and their initial surgeries. These different side effects, we get to keep a little bit more frequent tabs on, and that helps us to go back and just stay informed with the healthcare team and more confident in where they're they're headed in their treatments. Along with that, you know, of course, identifying challenges is is important, but identifying small changes and and celebrating them as big victories is one of the best ways that we can help to flip the script, if you will, on fear or uncertainty and develop more of that confidence. Because a lot of people feel as if they've lost control of themselves or of their body and of their health when they go through a cancer diagnosis, especially if they're someone who lived a healthy lifestyle before. Um, we talked about this, I think, in the first conversation too. Cancer doesn't discriminate. And sometimes it happens what no matter how hard you've worked on your healthy lifestyle. So people seem to sometimes feel like they've they're losing grasp of their health and to re-redefine where they're at and give them some control back through exercise. I think that's probably one of the most reported pieces of feedback that we get from from patients or clients is that exercise is helping me feel like I have control of my body again. And so that helps to, you know, again, take it from something that's uncertain to much more confident and self, self-uh affirming.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

Yeah. A couple of things that you said, one I want to touch on is the fact that you brought up not just it's not just physical, it's emotional. And I have to think that personal trainers, exercise professionals, health coaches, whatever, whatever role you play in the industry under this greater umbrella of health and exercise professional, that you need to be prepared for compassion fatigue.

SPEAKER_02 8:09

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:09

Yeah. Because it's emotional, not not just for the person going through that significant health concern, but emotional on your end, which is why high emotional intelligence is critical in our field, right? Like we're a service field regardless of what our clients are going through. But I'd have to think we have to have ways to preserve ourselves to prevent that burnout and that compassion fatigue.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

Yeah. The just like uh anything else, by being informed and being prepared, it's gonna give you longevity. And we call it in the, at least in the clinical umbrella or under the clinical umbrella, they call it trauma-informed care. So now it in more taking it toward the fitness specialist role, there are trauma yoga um courses that you can take. And specifically geared toward cancer rehabilitation or cancer treatment, yoga is being looked at very closely and being utilized in a lot of these clinical setting pro uh programs that I've that I've found. You know, the trauma is real and it and it affects all of us. Just like you know, burnout and and moral fatigue happens at the clinical level. Any population uh is long is in the long-dist impact or is in the adherence to healthy lifestyle behaviors. That's the same that we're discovering through the research with exercise and cancer. Is it's five to six years down the road where we're actually getting the biggest outcomes and seeing the biggest changes in people's quality of life.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

Yeah. I think that's a really good segue into another question that I have for you, is really centered on how exercise professionals support that long-term physical activity and well-being habits and engagement in adherence while in the present moment making these micro adjustments or sometimes significant adjustments because the needs of those individuals going through this cancer journey are continuously evolving. You said it best when you said there are latent side effects where radiotherapy may not show up for, you know, this significant period of time. And then you have to adjust. So, how do how do exercise professionals balance that? Like how do we encourage and support the development of these lifestyle long-term habits so that it is five, six years down the road while still being mindful of those adjustments that we need to make in the moment, sort of those that just-in-time support when the client's motivation might wane because they're not feeling well. How do we do that?

SPEAKER_01 10:50

Well, it's I think we are best suited for that, actually. We provide, again, more frequent touch points, whether they're under the care of the oncology team or after they've they've rung the proverbial or the literal bell when they finish chemotherapy. That's something that's common. We provide a source of remote monitoring and an ongoing connection to health. Whether it's health care or if it's just healthy lifestyle and lifestyle of medicine, we provide that ability to keep folks engaged. How we do that in the general sense, we'll we'll start wide and kind of narrow down to more practical day-to-day stuff, creating community around it, creating community around activity and especially fitness and exercise, which is like, you know, for some people a chore, others maybe not. You got that spectrum of very highly motivated to lower motivation, and we got to find the right, you know, the the Goldilocks position there for most people, community and open exchange, and the ability to communicate how they're feeling with others along that journey that are in the, you know, have had recent experiences the same as those clients. That's something that we can't connect with unless we've been on that journey as well. And so having that ability to, whether it's something completely outside of your services or if you're doing small groups and bringing people together yourself, drawing a connection back to community, I think is one of the best ways to enhance adherence over the long term. Being able to uh, you know, continually, we know very well the SMART acronym and goal setting in personal training and um my certification is through the American Council on Exercise. And ACE prides themselves on having uh a very strong foundation in health coaching. And actually, when I was certified, they didn't even have health national board certified health and wellness coaches weren't a thing yet. And ACE was one of the primary health coaching certifications you could get, and it went hand in hand with how they they structure their their personal training certification. So dialing in on what we know as motivational interviewing, evoking goals that mean more to that client and getting them to see what this really means to their quality of life and tracking, reassessing. Uh, recently I saw the SMART acronym amended to SMARTER and the ER at the end is evaluate and re-reassess or evaluate and redo, reset your goals. And so by continually having that moment of health coaching, whether that's a little bit of time each day, or whether that's a session every four weeks, or something where we can come back and reassess and recognize again, always trying looking for every little small change to recognize the accomplishments and celebrating those. And that's again why I love having a community, because if you've got a community, a group, then you get to recognize accomplishments more frequently. And we all get to, you know, feel that lift of self-esteem when someone has accomplished something.

SPEAKER_00 13:49

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

Constantly tracking your metrics and reporting those metrics, reporting them obviously back to the client so they can see, but also re-engaging maybe uh through the healthcare system so that they can also see that their client has maintained that that um habit or that healthy lifestyle behavior. And then so that you know, we're still zooming in on what you can do day-to-day. Another thing that we as health and fitness professionals do a very good job of when we uh take people through intakes is readiness to change, the par queue, the physical activity readiness questionnaire, right? Well, it's not just physical activity. In most cases, we're not sitting there going, Are you ready to do a squat today? That may be one of the things we're thinking about, right? But we're looking at that person's motivation when they're coming into the gym or into the clinic or whatever it may be. It's their mindset and their readiness to change and behavior change in that world or in that context, is where we have to start every day's conversation. And then we can check on the physical, but having maybe like a four or five question base where you can build up, you know, a pretty solid understanding of where that person is, but also maybe flip the mindset a little bit. And that's what motivational interviewing does very well is it's just uh very empathic listening and asking the right questions to draw out of that person what they may need for the motivation to continue moving forward.

SPEAKER_00 15:20

Right. Just in that moment, I'm glad that you brought up like that foundation of health coaching because it's not just about the reps and sets, right? Like it's very much about the connection and the coaching that goes into it. And that's very different than directing someone through a program. It's coaching them in a way that's meaningful, that connects to their values. And I love using motivational interviewing. I use it with my kids and they get annoyed with me. I'm sure because they're like, uh, you're coaching me. I'm like, Are you motivationally interviewing me right now? Especially my almost 11-year-old. She's like, I know what you're doing. Yeah. The six-year-old's not quite there yet, but um he's starting to pick up on some things. But but yeah, it it really is about building that connection and having that conversation. And I love that you brought up because I do the same thing as I have these pocket questions. It's just what I call them, these sort of ready questions to ask. Because you can tell when somebody walks into a session if you're if you're attuned enough and you're emotionally aware and you're emotionally cued in, you can kind of tell based on the nonverbals of where somebody is at. And it's really important to on the day-to-day, like ask how it's going, because sometimes the biggest win for the client is just showing up. And maybe that looks like you sit and talk to them and you coach them and you engage in this. It's it's like you said early on in this conversation is maybe it's abandoning the plan. So it's great that we can have this framework, but we have to be flexible within it. And sometimes it's acknowledging that my plan isn't going to survive implementation and I need to move on. And maybe it's just sitting down with the client and talking about them, about talking with them about how they feel and validating where they're at and asking them some open-ended questions. So I'm glad that you brought that up because I don't want professionals to be afraid that that somehow impacts progress if you have to go that route. Because really it might be the key to making them feel more encouraged to continue to make progress, is that moment in that conversation. So I'm glad you brought that up. And shout out for sure to Ace. That's my one of my certs as well. And I love that foundational practice of it's about the conversation and the coaching. And that should be given equal attention when we're looking at how we implement a program and train a client. So I'm curious a little bit more about some of the most effective strategies that you can offer our exercise and health professionals to keep these clients engaged. You know, we've talked a little bit about community, we've talked a little bit about that motivational interviewing aspect. But after their treatment ends, how is it that we can engage them or keep them engaged? What ways can we support them and encourage them? Are there specific strategies you recommend?

SPEAKER_01 18:09

Yeah, uh that what the way you just summarize things with um communication. It's communication, I think, is the most important aspect where anytime you're working with a population that's more resistant or is um higher risk, you have more communication. You have to um either gather more information so that you can be more precise with the service that you're offering them in the fitness regard, but as well, you're gathering that information so that you can help facilitate their progress. So, as you said, maybe it's instead of warm-up, strength training, cooldown type of format, you amend that. And maybe you have a 30-minute session versus a 60-minute session where you are just touching back on the initial conversation that you had with that person and reminding them of the need for physical activity. Maybe they're very gung-ho and and they're on board with that plan, but they're just having a low day and their motivation's off. Maybe they got a report from their healthcare team that they need to have another scan in three to four weeks. There's a term that we use called scanxiety, and that fact of oftentimes when they finish, they ring that bell, they actually have a six-month date or a three-month date for another PET scan or MRI. And so dealing with the the uh, you know, obstacles or uh objections to moving is is probably one of the more higher priority things that we can do to keep people engaged. It it does take a bit more of that emotional intelligence that you were talking about, affording constant open doors of communication and you know, letting your clients know that it's not just the hour that we have scheduled on days A, B, and C. You can communicate with me anytime you need. And journaling. Journaling is another form of communication, more of a self-reflection type of communication. But what I encourage folks do, I'm not much of a journaler myself. I don't like to get inside my own head too often. I might find things I don't want to know about. Uh no, the the journal for me, I I always give clients the ability, or sometimes I'll actually give them a notebook and I say at least make it a musculoskeletal journal and think about how your body's feeling around a workout. Drop down some notes after a workout, how you've been progressing through the weeks, and being able to reflect back on your maybe it's just one or two bullet points from each routine, being able to utilize that journaling form of communication. Even if it's not necessarily very deep, it's very superficial. It still helps to re-engage or remind folks of those um small victories, those small changes.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

Patience and grace is where I start every conversation with a new cancer survivor that I'm working with. I ask for a lot of communication. First of all, I tell them this may not be the normal fitness class that you're used to, where you come in and you're just gonna do what I say. I'm always gonna explain why you want to do what I say, not just how to do what I say, but I'm also gonna ask for a lot more feedback before the session, in the moment, and after the session to gather that information and make sure that we're staying on the right path. So communication is key, but also understanding that patience and grace in your journey have to be high, high levels of priority or skills that values. Yeah, val uh a value. Yeah, you have to understand the value of affording yourself some grace every now and then because it's not always going to be progressive in cancer care or an oncology exercise, exercise oncology. There's often times that there may be two steps back and one step forward rather than two steps forward, one step back. And and it goes day to day. So those, as we talked about, providing community, bringing survivors together, providing opportunities to reflect and understand where they're at in their readiness and utilizing little techniques, little special uh questions to flip that motivation level or call it the level of arousal. Is someone over-aroused cognitively or you know, mentally? Are they under-aroused? Where's that zone that we need them in to get the most out of whatever that day's plan is? It could be a walk outdoors for 10 minutes, and that that's all we need to do to, you know, kind of change their their path. And we do actually, I I I didn't think of it. The 10-minute rule is a great way. Oh, yeah, in the moment, to keep people engaged and to make sure that we're doing the best that we can for that person. And every 10 minutes you check and see, you know, especially from the beginning of the workout, as you said, getting through the doors are usually the hardest part of a workout. But if you're not feeling good and you've got um some maybe side effects kicking in, 10 minutes into a routine, do another check. Take your time to communicate with people. I think that is not just information gathering tool. It's how we show that we are empathetic to them and how we show that we do care about this person, not just those sets and reps.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

Right. It's showing our level of attunement and that we're paying attention. And that's something that sometimes is the biggest source of comfort for someone is knowing that the person that is working with us is attuned to what our needs are without us having to say it. So being able to pause for a minute at that 10-minute mark, how are we feeling? You use a scaling question on a scale of one to 10, where are you at? Is a great way to check in on their motivation, their status, how they're feeling, and just continue the conversation. I I like that as the 10-minute rule. 10 minutes is is pretty powerful. So I'm glad that you that and brought it up. I'm curious.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

Go ahead. Sorry, yeah. On the short timeline, you know, every few minutes, something like that. We keep our, you know, always keep yourself just like we do short-term goals and long-term goals to build up that um that plan of action that we're gonna carry out. You gotta imagine that for yourself as a coach and say, every, you know, there's a short timeline, and then there's a long timeline too. We have to reassess and reevaluate goals, keep people moving forward so that they can, so that this thing that is kind of, you know, you've been stuck in the world of superficial body image, this thing called fitness, it's not just fitness, it's a catalyst, really. It starts to impact their dietary behaviors, their sleeping patterns, their uh their quality of life and healthy lifestyle behaviors all the way around. So if we're taking the time to build the importance or the value in that, that's going to make a bigger difference in the long.

SPEAKER_00 24:47

Absolutely. One thing I want to give some more attention to, and I'm just curious about the research behind it, because you've mentioned community several times. And I'm wondering how do group-based exercise programs or classes specifically support the patient's connection, their confidence, a shared understanding among a group of people who have endured a similar journey, maybe not the exact same path. As you said, it's different for everyone. But but is there research on that about the group-based exercise programs? Like what's the intersection there?

SPEAKER_01 25:19

There's uh we so we spoke a little bit about one research article the first in the first podcast. It was done with uh breast cancer survivors in a rowing group. And and I don't know of a lot that's being done in that right now because we're utilizing, first of all, there was a decade, well, there was multiple decades, but from 2010 to 2020, we were really just trying to build the efficacy of safety and proving that it's safe for cancer survivors to do exercise. And so now for the latter five years, we've been dialing in on the actual mechanisms, what's going on physiologically in in the individual. And as medicine does, especially like physical therapy, that intersection of exercise in medicine, it's very individualized. And that's where most of our recommendations are gonna be. Structured, guided, and individualized exercise is what most of the research, literally the titles, the titles that have all those names in them, those are key words in exercise oncology. I know anecdotally, but I don't, you know, there are there are research articles out there because I've actually found research on virtual group interaction and how how impactful those can be. Most of these are, you know, just solidifying the safety efficacy and then the adherence and and and showing that people can stick with it. And that's another big obstacle that we have to overcome when we're going to physician and we're saying, we know this is good for them, we know they can be safe, we know they can stick with it. And here's how, and then finally we're starting to fine-tune all the you know precision exercise variables that we need. But research, I don't have a lot of evidence right now. That's actually what I'm doing in my presentations is advocating for more research on group dynamics and how you know, we have a lot of evidence in peer support groups for cancer and the the cancer support groups. I speak at support groups for prostate cancer, for breast cancer, and for general cancers here in the Sacramento area. Very strong, um uh, you know, robust evidence base there. But now bringing bringing those to so, you know, all my research correlates those along with the exercise evidence, and I'm making my own, you know, assumptions, but it's not just assumptions. This is what we've seen in the the small group training program that I've worked in for the last 10 years. I I see it as probably the most impactful variable to long-term adherence is the family-like connections that they draw. Because in many cases, family members can't understand what this person is going through. And having a group that you can show up to and not have to explain yourself to, explain why you're feeling a way you're feeling, or explain um, you know, facet of the cancer journey because that that group or that person, even if it's just a buddy program, a partner training, that person already gets it. Yeah, that's the thing that we hear. They get it, you know. And and as a cancer trainer or cancer exercise specialist, we're gonna have a degree of that. Should have gone through some education. Hopefully, we get years of experience and we build up that empathy and understanding, but we still can't understand like someone else who's been on that journey. So I would say that's my my call of action for for a lot of a lot further research in in the group dynamic.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

Yeah, for sure. I think it it makes good sense and sounds like a dissertation topic that would be pretty interesting to pursue in dynamics and that that impact of the group-based exercise and what that means for for these individuals. Because as you said, we can have all the empathy and understanding and emotional intelligence in the world. But if we have not walked a similar journey, either parallel or otherwise, how much can we really take on in terms of fully understanding what that feels like? And it's important to have, we already know that social support is a predictor of success, but drilling down into what it means for this niche population would be pretty interesting to see some of the longitudinal aspects of that. One of the other theme themes in both our conversations in the first part and this part, and I think is a great place to kind of hit home and come to a close on is this theme of communication, because it's it's been woven throughout the suggestions you've given us about what the exercise professional needs to do with the cancer patient, but also when it comes to facilitating communication across that collaborative care team. So let's talk a little bit about what role we as exercise professionals play in really being communication facilitators between our clients, the cancer survivors, their health care providers, and their support networks. Like what's the through line there? How do we accomplish that? Keep those lines of communication open and do so with that empathy and that grace.

SPEAKER_01 30:22

Yeah, uh, this is definitely, I find it a lot easier when you are in a group setting to draw out uh communication. It it's a different group setting than what peer support groups are. You're you're showing up to an exercise program where you know everyone's signed up for the same thing. And that goal, that underlying commonality is they want to get stronger, they want to get their endurance back and their stamina, um, improve the how they feel. So, in this realm, uh communicating is there's a strategy to keeping things positive because sometimes it can deter and start going toward maybe some more negative thoughts or or reflections. Sometimes it can be on how they're feeling physically or how their treatments are going. Sometimes it can be frustration with the healthcare system. And so we need to be able to stay in our lane, first of all, and and navigate back into our lane. And one of the skill sets that I feel that in the last 10 years has really helped me refine, working with the cancer demographic has helped me refine is keeping it in a positive, positive light and drawing it back. Whether it's, you know, for instance, you may have those regressions. It may be a two-week period that one of your participants has not made progress, is is fallen off the wagon a little bit. And and I think most of us as personal trainers or fitness coaches, we're really good about finding the positive note and and drawing out those highlights. And so it's definitely a an art, but it's so critical for us to make sure that we keep it in the positive light and we re redirect the conversation sometimes. I would say we also because we get to have that frequent communication, we are helping folks advocate for themselves to themselves. And in their own minds, we're we're showing them how we recognize their accomplishments. And I tell most of the people 80% of it is showing up. Even if you don't feel good, as long as you're not ill and and having or there's other extenuating circumstances, circumstances, just show up and we'll do that 10-minute rule thing. Having that um, that understanding that even a little bit counts, you know, something's better than nothing, and expressing that ability to always change the plan, it brings that level of comfort back to folks who are on the fence. And and whether it's whether it's physical or emotional, our ability to facilitate communication within themselves is also a crit a key skill set. So whether they're communicating with us and we're communicating about the this thing called fitness and and trying to dial in on how we best serve them, or they're communicating with their healthcare team, and we're giving them better information to go back to the healthcare team and say, you know, it's feel it when I do this movement right here, you know, or I'm feeling it in the mornings when I wake up. I'm I'm dragging in the evenings and the afternoons at this point in time, things like that, or if it's just that self-talk that we can help facilitate positive and constantly in a progressive, forward-thinking mindset type of communication.

SPEAKER_00 33:37

Yeah, absolutely. I love that. It reminds us of how powerful conversation is and how powerful our words can be and the unique power we have in the role that we're playing with these individuals and helping to, like you said, redirect that conversation, dig into how they're feeling. Again, 80% is showing up. Um, so I think that that's an important high note to end on. But I'm curious for rapid fire and to close us out, what would you say are the three big takeaways from this conversation that exercise pros can take right now and go and do um to get started?

SPEAKER_01 34:15

Okay, let me see if I can do this rapidly or not. Um well, I the the point that I gave at the beginning or in the first podcast of uh getting uncomfortable, I'd say that ties in with not being afraid, as we started today's conversation. So don't be afraid to to, you know, use your talent to help this population. We have a unique opportunity or a unique role to play in cancer care. And that can be someone who's 15 years down the road after a diagnosis. It doesn't necessarily have to be under the umbrella of healthcare, but don't be afraid, you know. Following that up is do your due diligence, you know, make sure that you are well prepared. You're never gonna be as perfect in this. I said there's two, there's over 200 types of cancer. There's so many different variables. You're you're never gonna be perfect in keeping everything locked in here, but you have to do your your research or you have to be able to research and be confident in your ability to understand the technical skills. And then so from there, it's it's the soft skills. I say the third thing, and and there's probably some others in there, and I'll 10 minutes after this. I'm gonna go, dang it, I should have I should have used that. We'll put it in the show notes. The soft skills, the the motivational interviewing. If you haven't pursued any kind of continuing education or professional development in in that um motivational interviewing context, do so and and then practice it with your family members or not, you know, you're a social support. Yeah, you know, so uh I I first say don't have the don't don't be afraid. We are vital in this in this this field. Get get some education, further your confidence and your knowledge base, and then get some experience and develop your soft skills. The soft skills in connecting with people is probably the the highest point of uh making a difference in the long run or the highest uh priority and being able to engage and keep people excited about health and fitness and excited about the you know the small changes that they're seeing in their lives.

SPEAKER_00 36:21

Yeah, don't underestimate the power of those human skills, right? There's definitely areas that could stand improvement and constant growth. So I absolutely could not agree with that more. Remind us where the best way our listeners can get a hold, where's the best way they can get in touch with you and follow you?

SPEAKER_01 36:41

Yeah, it would be uh LinkedIn, YouTube, and my website, aaronwyant.com. Um, I can share my my email in the show notes, but all of those have platform or have messaging platforms. And I'm always excited to meet new people who want to join this mission. It's we need a large workforce. We have um uh a major calling, as I said, and we need a lot of help to to further the professionalization of exercise oncology and especially in the community in the fitness-based setting.

SPEAKER_00 37:15

Sure, absolutely. Aaron, thank you again for taking your time to visit with me again because we simply just didn't have time the first time. But I think this conversation really revealed some very practical ways that fitness professionals can either dive into this or gives them direction on what's needed to work in this. And it's not too far different than what you would need naturally, like those human skills and communication. It's just you're working with a very niche population that probably subjects you more to passion fatigue and burnout than maybe if you're just working with a generally healthy population. So thank you for offering your insight and your time. And definitely for our listeners out there, if this is a topic that's close to your heart, either because you've been through a journey like this, you have seen someone that you love go through a journey like this, please reach out to Aaron, follow his work, listen to his presentations, read his articles, any content that he puts out there. If this is an area you want to pursue, it's it's definitely worth keeping eyes on that. And reach out to him if you've got questions or you want to learn more about how to get started in exercise oncology. And thank you again for being here with me, Aaron.

SPEAKER_01 38:23

Of course. Thank you.