The Power of Structured Movement with Oreet

Discover how a shift from performance to teaching in dance fitness can enhance learning, retention, and the overall experience for both instructors and participants. In this episode, industry veteran Oreet shares her innovative system rooted in neuroscience, offering practical tools to bring structure, predictability, and confidence into your classes.

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Website:  https://www.sharqui.com/

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello everyone, welcome back to the show. Today we're diving into a conversation that might make some of us rethink how we lead a room. In the world of dance fitness, we've seen a massive shift towards high production, entertainment-driven models. But while the lights are bright and the music is loud, a quiet question has been brewing. Are we actually teaching or are we just performing? Our guest today is a 30-year industry veteran and the creator of Sharkey, a teaching system built on how the human brain actually learns movement. Her recent article, When Performance Replaced Teaching, sent shock waves through the fitness community by challenging the status quo of modern formats. She's here to talk about trends towards structure and predictability and how we can bring the win back to our students. Please welcome Orit. Hello. So great to have you. Welcome.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

Thank you. Same here.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

All right, let's start off because I want I am always curious about backgrounds with instructors and especially from a dance background. Tell us how did you get into uh dancing and and uh this as a as a uh a job?

SPEAKER_01 1:07

Yeah, so I danced all my life. I was a contemporary dancer in New York City, that's where I'm from. I did it professionally for about 10 years, and I supplemented my living in New York teaching fitness because you know you can't just dance, right? And make money. And I loved teaching fitness because it is performance-oriented, right? And if I'm gonna be in the gym, might as well get paid for it anyway. And then I realized, you know, the fitness industry is, of course, much bigger than the dance industry, and I was making more money than I was in dance. So I was like, where how can I fuse the two together? Dance plus the fitness, because that the dance is my love, the fitness is where I was making money. And so I fused belly dance, the art form that I grew up with, with fitness because I was trained in it, and it was popular.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

And when, how long ago was this when you started? Because you know, the industry changes and shifts so fast. So, just to give the listeners context on what was popular then and how it's shifted.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Okay, so um I'm a 90s gal. Same. I wasn't born in the 90s, I was born in the 90s, but all this happened in the 90s. So I started my business in 1998, that's where I created the format in New York City. And uh, if that can give you an idea of what was popular then, or if you don't, no, I'll let you know now. Um was coming in, right? And also Latin aerobics became a big craze. And um, what I realized there was like some this missing link. Because Latin aerobics became a big craze, a lot of the gyms were hiring Latin ballroom teachers to come and teach fitness. Okay, but they don't have a fitness background. I realized I was watching their classes, there was no structure, there was no peak, yeah, there was no cool down, they were teaching it like a dance class. And I'm fitness enthusiasts were leaving one by one. And I was like, I know fitness, I know dance, and I can make a beautiful marriage.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

I love that. So you wrote an article, right, called When Performance Uh Replaced Teaching, and it didn't just get clicks, it actually touched a nerve with people. Uh, very they were very intrigued. So, why do you think instructors felt so seen by that?

SPEAKER_01 3:17

Um Yeah, uh first of all, there's a lot of viral videos out there with teachers performing. That's what a lot of people question what are these viral videos actually doing? Are you doing it to promote yourself? Are you doing it to show potential students that they can do it too? Right? So you've got to think about why are you promoting on social media, right? Because if you're doing it just to perform and show off, that's not gonna bring in students, right? It also touched a nerve because those who responded to it were of my generation, where group fitness was being taught on the 32 count, on the beat. Whereas now when Zuma came in, which is great because it got people off their butts and they had fun and had a party, but that is called ETM, exercise to music. So where where you're following the bridge, the chorus, the verse, right? And you're a slave to the choreography, memorizing and all that, the structure. Whereas when you followed the beat before, way before, you were able to slow things down and repeat and give structure, and people felt successful. So that's why it hit a nerve because those people of my generation were like, I miss that. I miss that style of teaching. And it now we're not serving the students anymore. Because why do we get into this industry in the first place? To help the students. ETM is actually doing them a disservice. While it's great they're coming to class, but they don't know what they don't know.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

Right, right. So you you call the format as a beaten block.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

It's it is a count method, but I've tweaked it to make it really effective.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

Okay, can you explain a little bit what that is?

SPEAKER_01 5:00

So you listen for the beat, not the structure of the song, and you are able to use the beats to just repeat and repeat and repeat. We use blocks where we create blocks of movement, and then you just stack on those blocks to make one long routine. Instead of, with ETM style, you reset every three to five minutes with a whole new song.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

So, how does that help the brain map out the movement?

SPEAKER_01 5:28

It helps the brain map out the movement because it causes predictability. People know what's gonna happen next. Also, people know what's gonna happen next because we use verbal cueing, not visual cueing. And I would love to talk about the difference, the big difference. Yeah, I understand with ETM how ver uh visual cueing is very important because you want to create a party, right? And you don't shout over the music because the music is really loud. I get that. But then you get people like me who want to come in, get into the zone. I don't want to be watching the teacher visually cue, right? I'm only 4'10 and a half, by the way. So people are tearing over me, right? So if I want to kind of get in the zone, I want to hear my cue. I don't want to keep watching. That's distracting for me and it's stressful. So that's the big difference.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

And how does that change the experience for the students? Having more of a structured, predictable movement patterns than just kind of like having a party and dancing for entertainment rather than the structured movement.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

Because it enables them to learn by breakdown and build-up. Because we're offering predictability, because we're offering structure, because we're offering smart repetition, we're able to break down movements down to its root to a march and then stack on layer by layer to show the non-dancer, the people with two left feet, that they can dance. As opposed to ETM formats like Zumba and other styles, they show the completed movement right away with all the layers.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I always thought Zumba was so in dance was so great for people's brains as they get older, especially, um, because you know the connections break down as you get older. But this seems even more efficient because you're actually breaking it down into pieces rather than the whole thing. So people are actually training their brain in steps the way that their brain wants to be taught, breaking it down into simpler parts. And so I'm sure that you have a lot of success stories of people that aren't falling as much or they feel they have better reaction, better agility. It trans it translates into their life.

SPEAKER_01 7:49

Yes, absolutely. Exactly. And they're not two steps behind and they're not feeling like everyone's looking at them. Yeah. Great thing, if I can add another added benefit to the system, is that now you're able to teach multi-option classes, people of all experiences. So if you can get in a professional dancer and have someone who's never danced before in the same class, here's why. Every build-up is an adventure, an option. I don't like to say levels, it's an option. So you just keep building up for those who can handle more, and those who can't handle more, they stay at the option that they wanted. And now everyone is moving as one, like a team.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

Yeah. Yeah. And this just seems like a huge skill as an instructor. And so you teach other instructors how to teach this. Which I actually at one point in my life, I was a certified Zumba instructor. And I just remember we learned just like you said, just chunks of chorus and and just dances that we would memorize. And there really wasn't much to it. It wasn't a system. So I think it's great. And you never think about what really goes into these types of classes with these specialized methods that really not only create a better experience for the participant, but also it's great for the instructor to be able to feel like they have a system that they can work with and not feel so scattered in what they're they're doing. Yeah, I have a question for you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

When you were certified in Zumba, how was it prepping for your classes and memorizing those songs?

SPEAKER_00 9:27

Gosh, it took forever. I mean, back then I was using YouTube where I I mean they I didn't I didn't really get any support after the certification. Uh, I just would go and listen to videos on YouTube and try to memorize the choreography. It was it was stressful and it was a lot. And I never really understood, you know, I had new people from week to week. So I'd have old people and new people, and they'd want to learn different things, and they interpreted the dances differently, and it was very challenging. It was very challenging.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

And with this system, you don't have to memorize 20 choreographies, you only have to memorize one. And that one choreography lasts for 45, 60 minutes, whatever the length of your class is. And I prep 15 minutes before. So those who are teaching ETM style formats, you're not getting paid for all that prep, folks. Yeah, you're not getting paid for that. You gotta get paid what you're worth, right? You're putting all that time in. So also, if you when you memorize these choreographies and you've got new people coming in, like, wouldn't you want that newcomer to be successful from day one, not four?

SPEAKER_00 10:41

That's how you want them to feel confident, you want them to come back and feel comfortable.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

Of course, not have to think like, oh shoot, this is a first class, they've already been into this choreography for the past four weeks. Oh, I'm lost, I'm not gonna come. This is about retaining students.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Yep. When did you launch this? And tell me about like what results are you seeing and and what is it showing? And it seems like it's proving the point of students are, or I don't know if call them students or participants, but they're more confident. Like, what are some of the results that the participants are seeing and the the and the students of yours that are teaching this format?

SPEAKER_01 11:18

Confidence, which then goes into their everyday lives. They feel like now they can do it, they can they can get out of their comfort zone, they'll try new things. They feel like, oh, I can dance. They feel like the system is magic.

SPEAKER_00 11:31

Yep. Because I mean, dance is incredible and it it gives you more than just movement, it gives you connection with your own body. I just think it's wonderful and it's amazing what you're doing because I I think there's a need for that in the industry. What else is there besides Zumba formats? I mean, I haven't really heard of any other formats that are being taught in a structured way like this. What are some of your competitors or other formats that are are similar? Or are there are you a differentiator?

SPEAKER_01 12:02

The only other format that's a cultural format like mine is Masala Bangra. Never heard of that. Serena Jane, fabulous founder of Masala Bangra, she again is of my generation and she sees the benefit of the system as well. That's how she teaches her instructors and students.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

Let me ask you, what type of instructors are coming to you wanting to learn this method? Are they coming from a Zumba background? Are they coming from a dance background?

SPEAKER_01 12:29

What type of both. I mean, I get belly dancers who come in, I get regular dancers who come in, I get Zumba instructors, and then people who are teaching their own style of ETM hip-hop, pop, whatever. Yeah, I get all types. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 12:44

And where is this type of uh where is this method available? To learn. Yeah, to well, to learn and then also to to do. So like I'm I'm thinking about um what is the what is the Les Mills. Like I'm thinking like a Les Mills where they have structured formats. And they offer this type of format at their facilities.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

Right. And they are ETM too. They're doing weight training to the music to on the change, and it's all choreographed. So, so, so you can do my system with strength training. It doesn't have to be Les Mills. We're not listening to the music. Again, Les Mills, they're listening for the change. Here, you are lifting on the beat. Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Okay, so that kind of shifts shifted my perspective of what this is. Yes. Because in my head, I'm thinking it's just dance, but that's not the only category this fits into.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

No, you can do it in strength, you could do it even just in regular dance class. Because here's the thing: this system is just a style of teaching. Whether you want to make it a workout and keep the flow going, by all means, go do it. Whether you want to use some principles and create a little bit more flow so you don't have to stop and talk and get into the minutiae of the movement like in dance, you can apply those principles. So you can use as many or as little principles as you want learning the system.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

Yeah. And are you seeing a big shift, like I said, like the entertainment and the dance side, shifting from that to more efficient, systemized, because people are getting smarter in how they want to move their body, especially post-COVID. They're really self-aware of needing to move their body in a smart way. So are you seeing that shift in people wanting more of that structured system that progresses them and not just moving their body randomly?

SPEAKER_01 14:35

You know, it's interesting. So AC ACSM put out a fitness trends report for 2026. And ETM style dance was not on the report as being the driver for 2026. What's become the driver for 2026 is people want predictability. They want structure like bar classes, Pilates classes, small group training, less to the song. They want put they want repetition. So this is the time now, dance instructors, dance fitness instructors, now, and maybe ex-less middle instructors, to now have that structure on the beat and make sure people are successful.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

Yep, absolutely. And you know, one of the six human needs for fulfillment is structure or certainty. But then there's also the other side where people like uncertainty and variety. So, where can they get the variety out of the structure that this format provides?

SPEAKER_01 15:35

I know. I mean, you can get a lot of variety from this. It's amazing. So why not? It would behoove you to have these tools in your back pocket.

SPEAKER_00 15:44

Yeah. So walk us through if an instructor or someone is interested in learning this method. What does that look like?

SPEAKER_01 15:52

Okay. So it is an online training. It's a coaching container. It's an online coaching container. And um, it this is what it looks like. We first start off find the beat. You'd be surprised how many instructors cannot find the down beat, right? Yeah. Then we go into find the 32, find the four measures of A counts, right? Because we're using the music as our guide. And then we go into let's create two movements per block. Now let's create more blocks, and now let's stack on. And then we learn what smart repetition is. So I created this in New York City, okay, and in New York, you know, people are gonna tell you the truth, okay? If they like you or if they don't like you, all right? So that's the place to start. So I realize I have this method called the two one-one method. I realize there's this, there's this sweet spot of how many repetitions is too much and what is just right. So repeating blocks two times through is great for the first time. And then you repeat the block once and then you repeat it once again. Here's why. When you first introduce movement, you want to make the blocks long, get in their bodies, get that muscle memory. Then you put the blocks together. Okay, now I see. Here's how this pattern and this routine is created, and then you do it again to solidify that pattern and that routine. So that's called 211. But if you do it a little bit more, you can. That's when you have to really read the room and assess your class. So there's flexibility in the system. And that's another thing, if I may say. Now I'm on this whole thing. Go for it. I'm not getting off the soapbox yet. What happened with ETM style music, teaching, excuse me, is that instructors are all in their heads. They're remembering, okay, what comes next? Okay, wait, here's the next change. Oh shoot, here's the verse, right? They're like not looking behind them or looking at the mirror. My students getting it. You don't know. Should I have should I repeat that block again or that verse again? Because Sally couldn't do it. You know?

SPEAKER_00 18:01

The concept of memorizing versus like I I had a flashback of, you know, in grade school when I would just memorize things for tests, but I didn't actually learn it. I didn't actually, you know, sit and and absorb in my brain. And it's the same type of thing where choreo choreography and Zumba, you're memorizing dance moves, but you're not actually learning them. It's just such an interesting concept that I I've never really thought about when it comes to that style of of exercise.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

Yeah, you're memorizing, you're not teaching, you're not coaching.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

Yep. Now, do you have a uh psychology background or like do you do you know a lot about the brain and and how things work? Because I I feel like you understand that piece, which is important.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

Well, all this is called rote teaching. Okay. O T E. And that is how dancers learn by repetition. You know, I'm I was a contemporary dancer, right? My directors, my choreographers would always teach me in this pattern. Yeah. And they would always teach it three times. Here's the pattern, we'll do it three times in a row, and then next. You know, you know, I don't know if you know that saying, maybe, maybe, maybe not. Um, it takes you three times to understand. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so that's the whole idea of rote teaching. Um, and it can I just tell you a little story about a demo class that I did. Absolutely. And this really shed some light and gave me a lot of clarity, Lindsay. So I was doing a demo class with two other instructors. We were all doing dance fitness in our own style. One young lady was a hip hop dancer, the other young lady was doing more ballroom-esque ETM style, and then I was doing my belly dance to my system and block style. Okay, so I went first. Everybody was moving seamlessly. It was great. Now, were they smiling and happy? Maybe not, but they were focused because belly dance was new to them, but they were listening, yeah? They were listening to me. I was coaching them and they were with me. Nobody was behind. Cool. Then the next person came, okay, and she was doing that ballroom-esque ETM style. She was all in her head, she memorized maybe 10 choreographies, they liked it, uh, but people were about two steps behind. And she wasn't looking at her class. Not to say that it's wrong, I'm talking about effective efficiency. All right. And then the third was the hip-hop teacher, and it was all about her. She was the star of the show. Great. She created a party, and I was like, I want to get up and dance, right? And I did a little bit. She was hot, like just really high energy. But is that sustainable? Okay, that's but everybody was having laughing and she was getting in your face and everything. It was fun, but they weren't really doing what she was doing. Yeah. So I realized there are three archetypes of instructors. There's the performer, there's the memorizer, and there's the coach. So dance fitness instructors, strength instructors, Pilates, whatever instructions, aqua. You need to think about every time you go into class, what is my intention? Do I want my students to get this specific movement? Or do I just want to myself get through class? And if I remembered all the choreographies, it was a good day. So, not right or wrong, what is your intention and go for it? Because a lot of people who do ETM styles, their intention is to help people. That's all I'm gonna say.

SPEAKER_00 21:48

Yeah. Uh, I'm learning so much about this, and it and it just relates to it, also relates to um, like we said, archetype. It's really important to understand who your audience is and what your like you said what your intention is. And so maybe we think about social media and how you present yourself on social media and how you present your brand, whether you are the are educational versus entertainment. And you know entertainment when you're dancing on camera, you might get more views, but you're not going to get quality views and and like you said, students. But with the education, it's very important, but it is hard to educate on social media. Do you find that that's the case? And what is your presence on social media like?

SPEAKER_01 22:35

Well first of all it is possible to educate on social media by doing little like you know teasers. It is possible to show that it's for everybody by you doing teasers and high-fiving a student because they got it, right? Yep. So what so you're asking what my social media is like?

SPEAKER_00 22:52

Yeah how do you educate on this method and how it's different from EDM and other other dance methods.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Right. So I do a lot of like static posts I do a lot of video reels teaching people about it. I do a lot of email and I talk about it. I get on other people's podcasts and I talk about it on my own podcast, the Dance Fitness Builders podcast.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

Okay. What about uh the article that you posted? Where did where did you post that? Which platform?

SPEAKER_01 23:23

I posted it on Facebook and I post on the Group Fitness Instructors Facebook group.

SPEAKER_00 23:30

Okay. Yeah I I always like to talk about the business side because people who own businesses, they're really great at what they do, but sometimes they have trouble marketing their business. So I always like to bring in from a business perspective if you have any tips or things that work for you that you can share with other business owners, especially owners that own a like that are either instructors or they own a business like yourself. What are some tips or things that work for you when you are trying to market this differentiator of a method in this crowded space of fitness don't talk about what you do talk about how it benefits them.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

Yep. How it'll make their life easier.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

Yep, absolutely and the type of people, the type of participants that take this class are they all different age ranges or do you find them older, younger or is it kind of spread across?

SPEAKER_01 24:29

Great question. I mean a lot of them I would say are I would say more like 35 and 30 up why that is is that this is not for everyone. It's it's a pedagogy. You've got to be ready to learn to learn something new. It takes time of course with anything even with ETM styles it took time.

SPEAKER_00 24:49

Um okay where do you see the role of fitness instructors in 2030 if we continue towards the focus on skill instructor?

SPEAKER_01 25:02

I see them having full classes. I see when they're the students inviting their friends I see happier people all around is this method is it a certification a qualification?

SPEAKER_00 25:16

How would you describe what it is that they need it it's just a coaching program.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

It's not a certification if you want to come and learn new tools come get coached by me. I do have a certification called the Sharkey Instructor Academy where it's a system but built on belly dance movement. Okay. That's a certification because then I I coach my instructors and I all that can ed. But as far as the Sharkey beat and block system this is for people who are of other genres of dance or modalities.

SPEAKER_00 25:50

Yeah if an instructor is feeling burnt out by performing in the entertainment side of dance what is the first small change that they can make in their next class without you know going into a new style what's one thing that they can do to to shift from that entertainment to more of the teaching and structure teach on the beat and repeat. That's it. Well I like that teach on the beat and repeat.

SPEAKER_01 26:15

Yeah yep and look at your students behind you. If someone is not getting it you repeat on the beat. How many sessions does it take? I think well they already feel successful I mean they may feel awkward but by the time they stop feeling awkward and successful at the same time I think by the fourth session they start to kind of get it into their body. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:37

And especially with belly dance it's all about engagement and relaxation at the same time and isolation especially my is dance your favorite style to use this method with like the belly dancing?

SPEAKER_01 26:50

I love strength. Strength yeah I love doing it to that because people are finding when they take classes like circuit training and they can do the the lift right on their own time but within 30 seconds or a minute or whatever it is, right? They're finding they're getting a lot more out of this because it's forcing them to stay on the beat, right? Because it's giving them a little bit of a cardio component along with the strength component. So what type of equipment would you use with that with that? I've done it with barbells I've done it with free weights I've done it with bands. So cool. That's so cool.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

How are you promoting this? Like I want I want to want to get this out more I I've taken so many classes even um you know I've I've worked at lifetime I've worked at the YMCA and they have these step classes or all different names but I feel like they would they would benefit from from the this method. Me too how how are you how do you get the word out I know you do podcasts and social media.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

That's that's how I'm doing it I have a coaching container if people want to um join me um I would love to promote I'm doing a free training on April 12th if they want to get in on that and they get on my email list and they learn a little bit more they can go to sharkey.com slash social. That's just the easiest way. It's S-H-A-R-Q-U-I.com slash social. Follow the uh prompt where it says Sharkey beaten blot system click it and you'll you can register there.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

Perfect and I will put that in the show notes as well so they can click right to the link. Is there anything else that you want to share with our listeners?

SPEAKER_01 28:31

It's not your fault. It's not your fault I feel like the industry has failed us.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

That's what I've heard that I've heard that a lot.

SPEAKER_01 28:41

And I feel like the certifying bodies who accredit formats that are on on the ETM follow the song structure when in their manuals they say follow the beat so if you're going accrediting formats that goes against what you're saying in your manual where do we go from there?

SPEAKER_00 29:03

Yeah now have you tried to connect with those certifying bodies or be a part of that or are you just kind of staying staying solo and and trying to grow your brand without those those accredited bodies like ACSM ACE NASM AFA you know what I have it and I could um you should and I will yeah no and I'm sure by now they have a little addendum for those who teach ETM style but I should it's just more it's more and you know what it's the it's the right time and you know I work with pickleball players and it's right now agility and brain to body style movement is so critical right now and people are becoming more aware of it. And I just think that any any format any type of exercise or classes that promote that now is the time to you know to incorporate this in a in a bigger way. So I encourage you to to reach out to to those bodies and just say hey this is what I'm doing and you know if you like it great.

SPEAKER_01 30:08

If not I'm gonna keep doing me yeah well I'm gonna be hitting all the conferences so I'm gonna be hopefully some presenting there.

SPEAKER_00 30:15

That's great. Well Ori it was so nice to talk with you. You are such a joy and I really want to do you have online classes or like how can I learn you do.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

Yes I do you can see it in action it's the Sharkey virtual studio uh advantage.com slash online your first week is free if you want and you can cancel anytime you can sign on and just cancel so you you make sure that you don't get you know recurring payments. But um yeah and I also have a free workout you can try right on my homepage. Just sign up for that.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

Okay well I will be there. I I can't wait to try this out. Awesome. So thank you so much for being here to our listeners thank you for listening and we will see you next week. Take care. Bye