The Paragliding Podcast, Episode 5

In this episode we get to hear the top-landing tips of Kinga Masztalerz, why you should never fly with dark sunglasses (from a guy who makes them) and the question pilot and climber Christian Black asked himself after launching off a Peruvian mountain at 19,000ft. Between these segments Tarquin and Ed discuss the latest issue and all that's going on in the paragliding world right now, from Austria's "Hammertag" to the latest hike-and-fly results to who to watch in the Paragliding World Cup Superfinal which is just kicking off. Ed discusses the issue of the "jerk test" and why there are calls to change the standards of back protection. Tarquin shares Mymy Heissat's inspiring story of finding love (and flying) in the Lofoten Islands while Ed recounts the adventures of two of this issue's features – flying in Bhutan and Bali. The episode closes with Christian sharing his adventures in the Cordillera Blanca. 

Thanks for listening! Join us every 6-8 weeks as we dive into the stories inside the latest issue of Cross Country magazine. Cross Country is the world’s international free flying magazine and is available online and in print.

Subscribers enjoy articles on new flying techniques, inspiring stories from across the world and deep dives into micro-meteorology, the latest equipment advances – and much more. 

As well as receiving eight premium quality issues, subscribers can access six Masterclass coaching sessions and discounts on merchandise, books, and flying accessories. 

Cross Country is a flying trip found nowhere else. Find us online at www.xcmag.com and on social media @xcmag.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I think it's the closest feeling you can get to being an astronaut. Or you're just like fully like teleported. You're like in all your puffy clothes and you're like, oh my gosh, like it's over, like I'm done, I'm safe. I'm like, I literally just walk home now. This is amazing.

SPEAKER_03 0:15

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Paragliding Podcast brought to you by Cross Country Magazine. I'm Tarquin Cooper. And I'm Ed Ewing.

Introduction

SPEAKER_03 0:25

So in this episode, we're going to be sharing the number one advice for top landing from Arkinger Mastalitz masterclass. Stay tuned for that. We're also talking design insights, why back protection tests need to change, and why we've got it all wrong when it comes to choosing sunglasses. We'll hear from Velodrum's Bjorn Hardstadt on why going dark is a bad idea, even if you look really cool. We've also got tons of inspiration in this month's issue of the magazine. And later on we'll hear from the paraalpinist Christian Black, who we just heard in the intro talking about improvising a belay technique for a super sketchy launch off a Peruvian mountain. It's a wild story, so don't go away. But first, Ed, what's going on in the paragliding world?

Ed rounds up what's going on in the paragliding world

SPEAKER_03 1:10

Okay, there's loads going on.

SPEAKER_04 1:11

It's May. Last week was Hammertag Day at the weekend. There were 7,000 pilots flying around in the Alps. There were like half a dozen, or at least five, big 300k triangles flown, paragliding triangles. So everyone over there in the Eastern Alps has been having an amazing time. The PWC Superfinal is starting next week in Pegalaha in Spain. This is the same site as the European Championships two years ago. A lot of these pilots now know it really well. The Super Final is the highest caliber competition that we have. It's the end of season uh competition. Who is your money on two weeks? Well, the French trio of Maxime Pinault, Honorin Hamad, and Baptiste Lambert, uh they're there and they they will be flying really well. Uh they'll be competing against each other as well as everyone else, and I think that will drive the level super, super high. Uh, so yeah, expect them to be battling it out uh from the from the first task. In the women's competition, uh, Frances Constance Metatal, uh, she's surely a favorite. But I think really interesting to watch is that the US has sent its women's team uh over as well. So you've got Alexia Fisher, Violetta Shimenez, Galen, Galen Kirkpatrick, and Jenny O'Neill. Uh, they're all going to be there at the super final, and I think they will all have their eyes on the on the podium in the women's competition. So, yeah, that's gonna be super, super interesting.

SPEAKER_03 2:48

And it's not just XEComp that has taken off, also the hike and fly season is well underway, isn't it? We had the um in Scotland, we had the X Scotia, um, and that was won by Doogie Swanson Lowe, and I'm looking forward to chatting to him in a few days' time. He's now the first person to win all four of the main uh hike and fly events in the UK. Um, Bord Air race also took place at the weekend. Born to Fly is happening as we speak. Um, so it's pretty much all go with the hike and fly season. And of course, it also was the the Jura. Uh the Jura Hike and Fly was the Swiss uh Championships had their event, which was won by Kriegel Mara. So it's good to see him back on the podium, and he's using that as a as a kind of warm-up to Xpeer. So now that's the big one on the calendar, isn't it? In the hike and fly season.

SPEAKER_04 3:38

Uh yes, it is. We should mention Serena. Serena Vronci as well was first in the women in the in her category there as well in the Swiss championships. Um, yes, the XP is coming mid-June. That's gonna be huge. There are 50 teams taking part, more or less, 50 teams, uh the biggest ever. Um and yeah, interestingly, the same team, because you know, the the same team that are organizing the the same Spanish team that organizing the super final in Pegalaha are then gonna go from organizing that, which is the classic XE racing, uh, and they're gonna flip and they go off and they organize the X Pier a couple of weeks later. So they'll be busy. Uh and Igo Redin is the organizational mastermind behind all of that.

SPEAKER_03 4:29

And we have an interview with him in the latest issue. So on the back page of My Flying Life. So he uh he tells us all about himself. I would not want that job. Actually, what's quite interesting um about XP is um, you know,

X-Pyr: Tarquin shares his conversations with former champions

SPEAKER_03 4:41

with profiling pilots and who's gonna do well. I spoke to Simon O'Brouner uh a few days ago, and he was actually ruining the fact that in the Eastern Alps they've had no good weather. He's only got about 40 hours this year compared to someone like Lars Mirstetter, who's got probably uh you know over 150 hours. And so that hammer tag uh on the 2nd of May was like really, really it was it wasn't so much like great times for everyone. It was like, oh, finally they've had a good day in the Eastern Alps. So um no doubt. I hope he was able to get in the air.

SPEAKER_04 5:14

Can I just quickly ask you about Simon or Simon? Um, how how was he feeling about it? Because he won it, didn't he? He won it, yeah. And now, but he won it in a year that I hate to say it, but that Kriegel was not there. Kriegel is now back um doing it. I'm sure that he will have something to prove uh this year after not winning the XORPS last year. Uh so what I mean, any insight on what Simon Simon was saying?

SPEAKER_03 5:38

Um yes, so you'll remember that Kriegel didn't take part two years ago because he had that Limes disease. Um he pulled out, he had to withdraw for more competition. Um Simon, you know, he's just he's he's always just laughing, you know, laughing about the adversity, laughing about how difficult it is, laughing about the fact that, yeah, it's a little he's a little bit worried of the fact that he he's only got 40 hours, but you know, does it really matter for someone of his caliber? He said he's got a really good team, um, and he's excited and and obviously wants to do well. Um so yeah, I think uh I think it'll be a really interesting race, actually.

SPEAKER_04 6:16

Also, this um uh toma Thoma Kokaneya is going to be taking part as well, isn't he? I love that guy. He's unstoppable. He is unstoppable, he's amazing. Um briefly, can you tell us what the difference is between the XP and the X Alps? Are they are they related?

SPEAKER_03 6:34

Well, it's yes, um it's one of distance, I think, is the main one. Uh Rebel X Alps is normally around the 1200 kilometer mark, and longer in duration, it's two weeks. X Pier straight line distance is 450 kilometers. X-Peer, though, you're flying the Pyrenees, so it's a lot wilder than the Alps. Uh, mobile phone reception is not as good. It's much harder for your support teams to support you. You've also the aerology is more complicated. You haven't got these massive, nice east-west super highways, you know, like the Rhone Valley or the Pinsgow Valley. Uh, the valleys are a little bit more tricky, you know, they're not always taking you in the in the direction you want to go. You also have to think about maritime climates, two different maritime climates. You've got the Bay of Biscay on the west, you've got the Mediterranean on the east, and that can really screw things. You know, you can be coming in at the end, and then the sea breeze kicks in and you're grounded. And I think last year last time Seaman O'Brien basically had to run the whole thing uh into the finish, and um, it was Christian, um, Christian Shuge who who flew almost all the way to the finish line. So that can you can get an upset right at the last minute. So those are those are some of the issues. And if you remember, two years ago they had that, they started in the, you know, it was driving rain. So I'm sure athletes will be hoping that it won't be like the washout that it was two years ago. Oh, that's something actually quite interesting. Uh, organizers have um put have have arranged two courses this year. They've got a plan A and a plan B. And if the weather's really shit, they're just gonna say straight at the outset, okay, guys, plan B uh route this year, which would be shorter for them. Are we allowed to say that? Uh we'll find out soon enough. I think we could. Okay, let's carry on. We haven't, we haven't, you know, we're not we're not spilling the beans on the route here, but it I don't think we're giving away any you know secrets by saying that there are two routes that that uh have been prepared.

SPEAKER_04 8:38

No, I I just say that because I'm laughing because I was literally just talking to one of the uh guys who's gonna be filming the Xpeer, and uh he doesn't know what the route is. And uh we have I I know that the pilots and the athletes they do know what the route is, but it hasn't been uh released yet. Um I haven't actually seen it myself, but I know you have been looking into it. Uh cool, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:59

Sorry, carry on. Well, anyway, let's let's go back to um the magazine.

Back protection and the imporance of jerk

SPEAKER_03 9:03

We've got a new issue, so it's issue 265. Now, Ed, there was a headline in the magazine that caught my eye, and I wasn't sure whether it was a typo or if I'm missing something. Can you explain? It reads the importance of jerk.

SPEAKER_04 9:18

Yeah, this refers to chicken, uh jerk chicken, which I really enjoy. Uh no, jerk is a it's different from G force, and it's all about how we measure back protection. Uh, this article is by Bastian Wenzel, uh, and she's looking into how the industry, uh how the sport is is investigating and planning to change how we test back protection. Um so at the moment, in back protection in paragliding harnesses, so the moment we test back protection in uh paragliding harnesses by uh uh literally putting a harness in the machine and dropping it uh from two meters, and then you measure uh the g force that is involved in that. And uh to pass the test or uh to be certified certified back protection, it has to be rated at 50 G or less. Um and a big fat foam bag will probably end up being rated at sort of 30 to 35 G, and that gives you uh lots of good protection. And then the skinny, modern, low profile uh back protection you know can be up in the 45s, 46. Um, but the point about the current standard is that it's only measuring it in a perfect drop-down situation. So if you land on your bum, um that's what it measures. So this article is looking at some of uh some of the plan looking at the plans of introducing different types of testing, different types of angles. So, you know, if you imagine when you're skidding in to a landing, for example, uh never experienced that. Never experienced that, but you might skid in and you don't land vertically, but you sort of you might you know land sideways, uh so sort of skidding in at 45 degrees. Um, so they're looking at how they can test harnesses and back protection uh it at different angles and also um higher up the back, because of course the criticism of some back protection in some harnesses, usually the very high performance ones, is uh that uh there's a compromise between having good back protection and um having having you know a low profile streamlined harness. Uh so there's always this sort of compromise between the two. So yeah, it's just about making the harnesses a bit safer. Well, yeah, just safe.

SPEAKER_03 12:08

And updating this this test, because the test actually was introduced by NASA scientists, wasn't it, back in the 1950s or something like that? Yeah, no, I think, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 12:18

The I don't think it was introduced by national scientists, but it was the the work behind it was done by NASA scientists, yes. Um, and then they took that paper and they said, okay, this is how we need to think. But of course, I mean it's all for the good because that sort of lower lower spine uh injury is really too common in paragliding, and you can injure yourself really easily. You know, the number of people when you start talking asking around people who've you know who have 10 years plus in paragliding, an awful lot of them have had some sort of back injury. Uh, so that is, you know, all of this work is about trying to make pilots safer.

SPEAKER_03 12:58

That's really interesting because also in this issue, we've got a an excerpt from Kinger, um, Kinger's masterclass on top landing. And one of the things that she talks about um in the masterclass is is not being that person who just piles in um on their ass. And um, it's funny for me because actually last weekend I was that guy. I was testing um my new wing. Um, I told you I've got the new, the bandit, the gin bandit too, and I'd I'd done a couple of top landings, you know, and it was perfect landing like a uh a ballerina, perfect, just stood exactly still, one one foot forward, launched off again, and then I came around for the third time, and you know, the the grounds sort of came up to meet me a little bit this time, and and and and inconveniently there was someone standing on on where I wanted to sort of traverse the hill. And so I sort of moved behind them, and of course, the ground kind of came up to meet me and came up to sort of kiss me on the backside. So I literally was that guy skidding in on my backside and um uh screaming at the person in front of you. Yeah, it was all fine. You know, I I kind of, you know, I I kind of you know bowed my brakes and and and brought the wing under control, and and then it kind of fell on someone who was also behind me and it was all a bit messy. And I was that guy sending the horses running, the car, yeah, all that, all that all that. Um so yeah, it's probably a good opportunity now to hear from

Kinga Masztalerz top-landing tips

SPEAKER_03 14:20

Kinger and listen to what she says and what you shouldn't do.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

And if you think about it, cross-country flying, especially in the mountains, is really about understanding deeply how the air flows through the terrain, both in a horizontal and vertical way. Okay, so once we nail this one, we become better cross-country pilots too. So the stop landing approach, once I land it, I land it. Okay, I'm on the ground. Yeah, success. But using this time of approaching and understanding the terrain, when you train, but also when you come to a new place, it's uh it's uh it's a gift, okay? It shouldn't be something that we that we get frustrated and annoyed with. Um, and by far, almost all incidents, most of incidents and accidents and people getting hurt by top landings rolls back to them losing patience at some point. And it may be because your all your bodies already landed, or maybe your paragliding crash is sitting on the on the takeoff looking at you and you want to show off. Or maybe you're just getting tired because you've been approaching it again and again, you've been hanging there for an hour and still lifty and still working, and you know, like you're getting hungry, you're getting grumpy. It's like, okay, I'll just stuff it this time, you know? Don't. Don't. It's really not worth it. You may get away with it once, twice, but finally it will bite you. So, really, patience. I can't underline it enough, I will come back to it, and I keep hammering always at myself and the pilots I coach, and then still everyone at some point has to battle with losing patience because you're tired, it's a it's been a long flight, it's this or that. Just keep it in mind, it's one of the most important things. And then in particular, also, we'll come back to it, but in particular, also, uh, if you're trying to land in thermic conditions, not in a laminar wind on the coast or some soaring slide, but in thermic conditions, you may be coming, you may be adjusting your approach perfectly. You may be coming perfectly, like, oh, if I had come like this the last time, that would be a perfect slot. But now, for example, the timing is different, and the thermal is triggering just from your clearing or just in front, and the wind has changed, and and that's that's okay. That's not everything depends on on us, and we don't have control over everything. So, even more approaching it, like listening to the mountain, listening to the to the air and being very patient. I sometimes get so carried away with the with the playing and with this mindset. This is what I wrote here. I could, but I won't. So um I'm flying in and I feel like okay, now I have a perfect approach. I could, what I want. I'll just fly out and play a little bit more. Okay, that's a very empowering and very confidence-building exercise. I could, but I won't. I'm in control here.

SPEAKER_03 17:11

So, yes, that's all good. That masterclass is available uh to listen to in full to subscribers online, and yeah, you can also uh read an excerpt from it from um the magazine. So uh thank you.

SPEAKER_04 17:23

Yeah, no, I I I I I really enjoyed that masterclass with Kinga. I she she's such a talented pilot and she really knows her stuff. Um, and I I really enjoyed listening to her. And and you know, the main takeaway from that whole thing is yeah, think like a ballerina, as you said, be graceful. Um, you know, don't force it in. Patience, patience, patience. Uh so yeah, it's it's a really good message to just have embedded in your head when you're thinking about when you're looking at top landing.

SPEAKER_03 17:51

And also the other thing about top landing is what an important skill it is. If you want to do any kind of vol biv or or kind of exie across the Alps, it's just so useful to be able to say, or even if you just need a want to have a break and have a you know, a drink or have a pee or whatever, just to be able to land anywhere and then take off again. So really recommend uh that. So, this issue, I also take a deep dive into eyewear

Tarquin takes deep dive into eyewear

SPEAKER_03 18:17

to learn what we should and shouldn't be wearing. Um, it's probably one of those things we don't spend enough time on. You know, we spend hours pouring over what wing to get, our harnesses. Um, and yet our vision is is so crucial to how we fly. I don't know about you, Ed, but you know, when I'm going into a uh a shop and choosing on sunglasses, I literally I'll look at them, put them on, look in the mirror, and just think, you know, how cool do I look? And that's the only criteria almost, you know. And of course, you know, that's not how you should choose uh sunglasses, is it? No.

SPEAKER_04 18:52

No, no. Well, you told us uh we should choose sunglasses. Um, well, first of all, you need to decide whether or not you're gonna use sunglasses, or you're gonna wear goggles, or you're gonna use a visor, uh, and there's all different uh pros and cons to all those three things. Then you've got to decide whether you need um uh prescription lenses. That's a whole issue on itself. Uh, and then you've got to decide about the lens, the colour of the lens, because I think, you know, I mean this was the really this is the really interesting thing because the I I'm we had this conversation before you wrote this piece or started researching it. And I was like, you know, the old school hand glider pilots, they really they all used to wear orange glasses, and this was the big thing was like orange lenses help you see the thermals. Um, and that I understand is about definition. But I also remember talking to one of the uh ex-helps uh pilots, or you know, one of the guys from the the central arts in Switzerland, and I I he had he had like half a dozen different lenses that he could just clip in to his to his shades, depending on whether it was overcast, depending on it was a blue sky day, depending, you know, all these these different things. He would he would pick his his lenses for the day and take a couple with him. So yeah, it's a very very important piece because I mean it's all about observation at the end of the day, isn't it? You want to be able to observe if you're flying along and you don't see that seagull or you don't see that um you know glider in front of you, or you don't see it's all about that.

SPEAKER_03 20:25

And and not just about seeing the thermal forming, it's also about seeing you know that cable, or you're going through the forest, or suddenly it's overcast. And if you've got a really dark lens on, that's not going to help. So you're absolutely right. The old hangy pilots, they're right. The everyone I spoke to said it's a kind of yellow, orange tint that you want. And well, all the the other thing was that the polarized lenses, everyone just agreed, polarized lenses is bad. They're fantastic if you like fishing and you like looking through water. But what they do is they they cut the horizontal light, they cut the glare. And actually, as pilots, we need to be able to see that glare sometimes. And it's interesting that both um the CAA and the the American federal um aviation authority tell pilots not to wear polarizing uh lenses. So for our sport, not good. Great for water sports, though. Um, but I also thought that the the the right type of lens was a really dark lens. I suffer from I'm not suffer, but I I I my eyes are quite sensitive. And when I'm in the mountains, I like a really dark lens, a category four lens. Lenses go from one up to four. Um, but actually, when we're flying, having a dark lens is not necessarily a good thing. And that's something that Velodrom's Bjorn Hartstedt uh tells me um in this following clip and in the magazine. So let's uh hear, I think if I can uh find that clip, let's hear from uh Bjorn.

Bjorn Hardstedt, CEO of Velodrom sunglasses shares his expertise

SPEAKER_02 21:54

Oh, dark yoursis. Two dark yards are just rubbish. Uh as mentioned in the It's just a really a null sum game with your pupils because if you put something dark in front of them, they will just open wider. The only time you really need dark glasses is when you look at a sign sun eclipse. Then you need something really, really dark.

SPEAKER_03 22:18

And so what happens when your pupils open up? Does that just mean your vision is reduced, or does it mean that actually more harmful sunset?

SPEAKER_02 22:27

What happened in the old days when there nowadays, like all glasses you buy really uh have a good UV protection, what we call UV 400, uh which uh dampens or completely block uh all the lights in the ultraviolet frequencies that can be very harmful to your eyes. So so that that's not really shouldn't be a problem. But before there were some manufacturers of sunglasses that didn't pay much attention to this, and particularly if you bought some cheap sunglasses on a holiday trip far away, uh and and that that could mean that you actually uh darkened your vision, which meant your pupils open up wider and let in actually more light, and let in more of that hazardous light that would actually be very harmful to your eye. Because when the pupil closes, that is to protect your eyes from light, and also makes it make it make it like comfortable to to look to look in in strong sunlight or uh reflections from sand or snow or something. So but that that shouldn't really be a problem uh anymore. But it's just silly to make it dark in front of your eyes because then your your pupil will open up, your focus of depth will be much worse. So so um yeah. That's why I use category two. It's a measure of of how much light is let through. My yellow glasses have category one, the darker glasses have category two, and I think that's obvious uh why it's good. There was an accident uh in in my town Stockholm when I started this business venture 40 years ago almost. There was a motorbike rider who drove into a tunnel and crashed right in the wall and actually uh succumbed to the to the injuries. And when they looked at what had happened, this was like in the 80s, and she was wearing these super dark glasses. She went blind. When she went into the tunnel, she couldn't see anything, smashed right in the wall, and died as a consequence. Which which which really that's an extreme, but that can happen also if you fly and you have dark glasses, you fly under a cloud, and your vision gets much worse.

SPEAKER_03 24:47

So that was interesting. Super interesting. So that's something I didn't know before, where absolutely what I thought I was doing the right thing is actually the wrong thing. That example of a motorcyclist going it through a tunnel, you can easily see applying to our sport where suddenly it's shut down. And if you've got a really dark lens on, you know, your vision is now impaired. Now we've been also

Fluga goggles

SPEAKER_03 25:08

testing sunglasses. So I've been um wearing the fluger goggles. People have strong opinions about fluger goggles, um, and quite a few uncharitable views. Sometimes people think you look odd, but they are amazing. And and one of the things fluga say is that the because the the lens, you've got two different lenses, it can sit closer to the eye, um, closer than a regular ski goggle, and that gives you a better field of vision. And when I wore them, I mean it is an amazing quality lens, you know, the there's a sort of slight orange tint to enhance the contrast. So I will definitely be wearing them in the Alps when I need to wear a pair of goggles. Um I've also been wearing the Velodrom's sunglasses. So these are the ones made by Bjorn Hardstett, who who makes them for pilots as well as uh motorcyclists. And the great thing for them for older pilots, if you need a prescription lens, they have the prescription, the reading lens at the bottom of the of the glass and it is of the of the lens, which is perfect for reading your instrument. But also he doesn't have that, it doesn't stretch all the way across the lens. So when you need to look out of the corner of the sunglasses, it's unimpaired. It's it's it's normal. So you've got that long distance vision. It's only just the little bit underneath the the nose. So yeah, if you struggle to read your instruments, um definitely recommend these. And they're super cheap as well. They're only about 65 euros, something like that. So

Oakley Meta Vanguards

SPEAKER_03 26:32

if you sit on them, which we're also prime to do, um, it's not the end of the world. Unlike the Unlike the Meta ones. Yeah, the Oakley Meta uh uh Vanguards. If you sit on them, um, yeah, that's gonna be expensive.

SPEAKER_04 26:47

Yeah, they're probably like 800 bucks or something, aren't they?

SPEAKER_03 26:50

Yeah, they are expensive, but they are amazing. So um obviously as an Oakley lens, the lens is is is first class. But what's unique about them, they've got the the the camera, the video camera in the middle of the eye. And the big plus of that for pilots, obviously, is let's be honest, filming is just super dangerous. And everyone in safety and instructors and SIV tells you you shouldn't do it because a line can wrap around your GoPro, your Instagram 360, blah blah. It's a disaster. So here is if you want a safe way to film while you're flying, this is the way to do it.

SPEAKER_04 27:22

Um, and it's did you did you manage to work them out how to how to trigger them to film just with your voice?

SPEAKER_03 27:30

Yes. Um you just say start filming. Voice activation is harder in the air, though. Yeah, you know, when you've got a lot of wind noise, wind interference. But I did get them to work. You've also got a microphone and speakers above your ear, so you can you can Bluetooth with your phone, so you can set them up for calls, whether it's through WhatsApp or Zello. Yeah, I saw your clip on Instagram. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 27:54

Your wife Sarah actually called you.

SPEAKER_03 27:56

She did actually set up. Um, no, I did try and call her from the air, testing the glasses, and of course she didn't pick up. And then she called me back.

SPEAKER_04 28:05

It worked, it worked.

SPEAKER_03 28:06

Yeah, it did work, and I just had to say, I can't remember what I said. I said the the command meta answer.

SPEAKER_04 28:10

And uh and oh god, it's lucky you're on your own, isn't it? Like up in the air. Because otherwise, I actually had them for a weekend away um of like non-pilot people, and and the sort of impression that basically everyone was like, take those off, take those off now. You're filming. And I was like, uh, I'm not filming, but they're just on. So in a social situation, like a non-sporting situation, they are a bit like Robocop. I think people are a bit scared of them that you're suddenly just going to be like capturing them or streaming them or something.

SPEAKER_03 28:39

But I'll tell you what, I did find less so now. I mean, do you remember when the Google came out with these glasses about a decade ago? Everyone was really hot on the privacy. But I think now we've all signed away our lives to you know all the social media. Everyone's now a little bit like, oh, what have you What the hell?

SPEAKER_04 28:55

What the hell? Yeah, no, I'll tell you what I did find them really useful for though, because the AI is I was looking at an exhibition and it was all in um French, and I can read French, but um it translated them. Uh, you would look at it and say, translate meta, and then it would read it out to you in English. It was really clever. Yeah. So I think they're actually really useful for, and also that the the thing you found, the the thing where you say meta, what is in front of me, and it explains, it describes exactly what is in front of you.

SPEAKER_03 29:26

I mean, that's just that's just weird. My my wife Sarah knows someone who who's got a um a son who's blind who wears them and goes to the who can go shopping at the supermarket and just says, Hey, what am I looking at? And it'll describe whatever's on the shelf.

SPEAKER_04 29:40

So a packet of six apples, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:43

Yeah, amazing. Okay, enough about enough about sunglasses. Uh

Ed shares other key stories in the magazine

SPEAKER_03 29:49

talk us through some of the inspiration um in the magazine. Ed, we've got a couple of features from Bhutan and Barley.

SPEAKER_04 29:55

Yeah, no, I mean the the cover shot is great. The cover shot is uh from Jogge Achamis, um, a uh a regular contributor and a beautiful photographer, really captures the heart and soul of flying wherever he goes, spends a lot of his time traveling around. Uh he runs the social media accounts and lots more. Uh does lots more uh for Ozone uh in the communications and media and all that sort of stuff. Uh he went on this exploratory trip with uh Chris Garcia uh out to Bhutan. Um, and I think they're looking to start uh taking small groups out to fly in Bhutan. And they flew in this amazing valley which has zero cables in it because uh it's home to the this special type of crane in Bhutan. And so there are no cables. Not not yeah, yeah, not the big building thing, it's but it's a special Bhutanese crane, uh, and they use this valley um to migrate to and to live in. And so there are no cables. Anyway, they got this very uh difficult to get permission uh to go there and to fly and to just sort of start tentatively exploring Bhutan, which as we know is this small kingdom in the north of the uh northeast of the Himalaya, which has you know it hasn't gone down the mass tourism route. It's the Habakkukingdom, yeah. I don't know how much I don't know how much of that is sort of real or not real, but certainly it's it doesn't have mass tourism and it's really wary of going down the Nepal Pokera route. It just wants to keep itself uh closed off.

SPEAKER_03 31:38

I did actually go to a a mountaineering talk um on Bhutan, and they've got a big problem at the moment with the melting glaciers. So these these glaciers are melting and the water is pooling, and these natural dams have formed, but they're they're wafer thin. And the water is getting there, the water levels are getting higher and higher, and these huge, you know, they're like massive reservoirs. Yeah. And what's gonna happen is these dams are gonna break and flood villages and the and the villagers, and it's trying about what do you do? How do you, you know, it would cost billions to to you know, fortify these dams, and and so it's about educating the the public and what have you.

SPEAKER_04 32:15

But but exactly. So that's not so happy, but um, yeah, so Chris and Horge had a lovely time, but they had a holiday to put down, they had a lovely time, they avoided all that.

SPEAKER_03 32:27

I mean, did they get much flying in though? Because I got the sense.

SPEAKER_04 32:30

They did. It doesn't matter about how much flying, they didn't do a super amount of XC, but they went and they had the cultural experience and they did hike and fly and they sort of soared around the valley, the Gangti Valley is, which is this big high-altitude glacial valley. Um, and as I said, the black-necked cranes uh live there. So yeah, it was about going somewhere remote, going somewhere where people uh don't go and exploring new places. Um and yeah, that sort of trip, I I'm I'm jealous of people that get to go on those trips because they they are um yeah, you're not sort of racking up the kilometers, but the whole yeah, the whole experience.

SPEAKER_03 33:08

Well, it was a bit like that for

Ole Dalen's trip to Bali

SPEAKER_03 33:10

Ollie Dalin who goes off, he ignored ignores everyone's advice and decides to book a paragliding trip to Bali in the rainy season.

SPEAKER_04 33:17

Yeah, yeah, no, that's great. Uh yeah, he's great. Uh people on social media who know him will know that he he had an accident um a couple 18 months ago or something. So this actually, all these photographs came from uh um from uh before he had his accident. He is back flying now, um, and he did a really good viral uh a video about his recovery that went sort of viral actually uh on Facebook and social media, on Instagram. But yeah, Ole and he's out there and he's flying in Java and Bali and Lombok. And again, he's just having a really great time meeting people, flying places that um you know people in Europe don't really know about or tend to go. Uh yeah, he just took himself off and had a had a had a great time exploring.

SPEAKER_03 34:06

So that's a good read. Also in

Hike-and-fly in the Lofoten Islands

SPEAKER_03 34:08

the mag we've got Love and Loss in the Lofotan Islands. Oh Mimi Hysat, who fell in love with the islands and has written um uh a guide to hike and fly, and it just looks like a really cool place.

SPEAKER_04 34:21

Have you been to Lofton? Is it Lofoton? Loften, Lofoton. Loften. Yeah, it looks amazing. Yeah, I mean, just the mountains look amazing.

SPEAKER_03 34:29

Wild, do it, you know, challenging as well because you've got wind probably coming from all directions, and but it's probably flyable about five days a year or something. Something like that. But actually, it's all a lot of it's grass, so you can just land, you know, some there are some really nice big land anywhere. And she wasn't uh a pilot when she went up there, so she was a surfer, um, really interesting um character, and then just got into flying, um, fell in love, and um just started writing as a little project um guide to all these um hike and fly peaks.

SPEAKER_04 35:03

So I think I think that's what I love about the sport still so much, you know, is that you can you can still go and do that. You can dive into the sport. She's not been flying that long, but she's basically, you know, she's setting the not setting the agenda, she's exploring new places, she's telling people about the hike and fly, she's having true adventure, you know, um, her and her friends. And the photograph of them all sort of bivouaced out under the midnight sun, it's just hilarious. It just it just looks such a brilliant adventure place.

SPEAKER_03 35:35

Well, we should book that ed as the next uh cross country magazine, Away Day. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_04 35:40

Yes, that'd be good, yeah. Okay, we'll do that.

Christian Black's epic flight from 19,000ft in Peru

SPEAKER_04 35:43

Now dip into the uh the cross-country wallet, remove the moths. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 35:49

Now, one of the wildest stories I've read in a long time comes from the American climber and pilot Christian Black, who thought he'd take his paraglider on a climbing trip to the Cordillera Blanca of Peru with Rowan Lovell. It's an extraordinary story. He and Rowan were climbing this mountain, Artisan had Radu, and they decided to turn around at about 19,000 feet. They sort of ran out of juice halfway up, and then they realize they don't have the energy really to hike back down. Their only hope is to escape uh with their wings. But the launch is super sketchy, so they decide to use a climbing technique and get out the rope. So basically, Rowan agrees to belay Christian, uh, which is like paying out the rope as he launches. And I spoke to Christian and he takes up the story.

SPEAKER_00 36:40

Yeah, so uh I've been I've been had this idea in the back of my mind to go climb and fly in Peru for some years. Uh it just seemed like it would be a place where it worked. Like the weather's fairly stable from what I could tell. It's not like one of those mountain ranges that gets hit with big storms all the time. I was like, ah, that could, that could, that could work. And I happened to meet a friend um out on an ice climbing trip who was also a paraglider and had been to Bolivia to do a similar trip. And so we decided uh to go together last summer. And yeah, we it was it was very exploratory, you know. Like my friend was uh a newer like alpine climber, really good mini-wing pilot. I'm like more of an XC pilot and like an alpine climber, and so it was kind of like a good combo. But um, yeah, after we'd acclimatized a fair bit, we decided to go try Arsenahu. It looked like the summit would be big enough to launch, and it seemed like fairly like not too technical, but fun. But we were kind of faced in this in this scenario where like, oh, well, it's actually really interesting when you try to take a wing up there because what all of a sudden we can't start from a high camp anymore because then we you can't land at high camp because it's all like a glacier boulder field. And so we're like, well, do we go really slow and like just carry our bivy kit all the way up and our wings? Like, that doesn't sound very fun. We're like, no, we should just start from the bottom and carry nothing but wings and see how far we get. And so in the back of my mind, I knew it was gonna be a big day. I mean, doing like this is gonna be in American terms, but doing like 6,000 feet of elevation gain at that elevation isn't something you would normally choose to do. So I knew it might be a tough day.

SPEAKER_03 38:27

Um, 2,000 meters at that altitude is is is tough.

SPEAKER_00 38:31

From like a climbing perspective, it's not super technical. You know, the southeast face that we're climbing is like 55 degree Neve, so we're just kind of simulclimbing, like easy s easy steep snow, you know. We got about halfway up the route. It's about 600 meters of climbing on the route, and we got about 300 meters up the southeast face. Um, I mean, just the approach from Laguna Peron all the way up to the base took us like almost eight hours, and you gain, you know, a thousand meters there easily. From starting at around 4,000 meters, it's it's a huge day. So we got about 300 meters from the summit. We're kind of in the middle of the southeast face of Artisan Rahu. And we were kind of looking at our watch, looking at the weather. We kind of knew we had this window midday where the winds switch from like east to north and it kind of dies off, and that's kind of a good launchable window. So we were kind of just looking at the time. We're like, well, you know, I don't think we're gonna make it to the summit by the time it's launchable, like, you know, 4 or 5 p.m. It's it's gonna be too windy again. It'll have shifted west and gotten too strong. So we're like, well, we either probably got to start downclimbing or we gotta see if we can launch off this thing. And you know, we looked over to this to the southeast ridge, there's another route up the ridge, and there just happened to be sort of this little little flat spot on it. And I was like, ah, maybe that's launchable. We'll see. It's like a 200-meter traverse across the face, and you know, if it doesn't go, we'll just downclimb. So we spent an hour traversing over, getting onto that little pedestal. I was like, well, it's big enough to lay out a wing and it's the wind's the right direction. I think we can do this. Yeah, we're on this really small pedestal where like off to one side is definitely a cliff you'll die on, off to the other side it just gradually steepens and gets icier. So like if you slip, you it's also not okay. And so I was like, well, we kind of just need like in climbing, like a short rope, which is like just a rope snug to you on like non-technical terrain to that stops a slip from being a fall, just for just for bringing the wing up, just for kiting it up. And so I had thought of the system in the back of my mind. I was like, hey, do you want to try this? He's like, Yeah, sounds good. And so we put in two snow pickets as an anchor. Um, my friend Rowan was connected to that anchor, and he had most of the rope, and we just had the very end of the rope go um from fixed to the anchor to a through a locker on my belay loop and then back into Rowan's hand, just like just holding it, like maybe wrapped around his hand once or twice, so it's quick to release and stop a fall. And so he just had me snug on that on that system while I kited the wing up, and once I was like facing forward overhead, kiting it, feeling it out. Yep, the wind feels really good. I feel confident. Then he just lets go of that rope and it just slides through the locker on my belay loop as I run off.

SPEAKER_03 41:20

It seems a pretty good system.

SPEAKER_00 41:22

Yeah, yeah, it seemed to work pretty well. Um, he ended up launching without a belay, which was a little spicier. Yeah, didn't we?

SPEAKER_03 41:29

You know, so it's more challenging for him. You couldn't exactly belay from the air, could you?

SPEAKER_00 41:35

Yeah, and you know, talking about it after, we had thought of potential ways to sort of self-belay for the second, where you know, you leave a couple pickets and maybe some cord or something, but you could more or less do the same system, but just hold the the end of the rope in your own hand as you kite it up and then let it go.

SPEAKER_03 41:53

In the magazine feature that is a great piece, by the way, it's really well written. Yeah, it's a fascinating story. You get to the bottom and then you ask yourself the question, did we nail it or did we go too far then? And I'm wondering in hindsight now, do you do you have an answer to that question?

SPEAKER_00 42:08

Yeah, I think after thinking about it more, I feel like launching with the belay was in margin, and especially if we had a self-belay system for the second, that would have felt like we had better margin. But I feel like the thing we messed up on was just not preparing for it to be unflyable in the way that like we had a big day planned, we went really light, and we didn't really have the food or energy to probably reverse our route on foot in the way like with the amount of energy that I would have wanted in that terrain. And so, in the moment for us, it definitely felt like, oh man, I really hope this works because I really don't want to downclimb. I'm so tired. And that's not really a place you want to be, you know, close to 6,000 meters. We we got away with it. But the moment you landed, you must have felt like superheroes. I think it's the closest feeling you can get to being an astronaut where you're just like fully like teleported, you're like in all your puffy clothes and you're like, oh my gosh, like it's over. Like I'm done, I'm safe. I'm like, I literally just walk home now. This is amazing.

SPEAKER_03 43:18

So I mean that's that's just insane. And and there are more and more pilots doing this, isn't there, Ed?

SPEAKER_04 43:23

Actually, the funny thing Yeah, there are loads, there are loads, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:26

The funny thing is, Christian sort of says in the magazine he doesn't know of anyone else who's done this sort of bele technique while paragliding. And actually, we do know someone who's tried it, none other than uh Uri Koran, who has uh I remember he did a thing where he's well, yeah, you know, he's a crazy, he's a wonderful guy. Uh but a little bit he does, he likes to do the mad things. He soloed North Face with a matter horn. It's too windy to launch. So he thought, I know, I will, you know, bele myself, fix myself to the the cross with a with a rope, then I'll bring my Up and you know, as soon as I take flight, I'll you know get the knife out or whatever, just cut myself free.

SPEAKER_04 44:05

Um I mean, can I just say because that just sounds mad, but are you planning one, you're gonna kite yourself into the air and you're gonna be tied to the top of the matter horn because it's so windy, right? I mean, that's why he's doing it. And two, you're then gonna like release the rope and then you're gonna lose your 100 euro rope. I guess that's the idea. Or you're gonna be flying around with a big piece of rope attached to you.

SPEAKER_03 44:28

Yeah, or actually how it works and how um Christian does it is like how um sailors moor a boat where you keep the rope on the boat and it runs through the the anchor and then back to you. So you can untie it at your on your harness, if you like, and then it and then it would just whip out and and then and then you're you're left with the rope dangling from your waist. But which doesn't sound useful at all. At all. It didn't work. What did Uri do? What happened with Uri? Did Uri that didn't work out? He he spent all his energy trying to launch and then realised he's got a hike down and he's just completely exhausted. He took a wrong route, and then he he's he I think he fell a little bit, he fell, you know, a short distance and decided, whoa, I'm way out my comfort zone, called in the rescue, and then realized that he was only about 20 yards from the the hut or the route or stuff. So yeah, it didn't end well. But yeah, it's true uh beeling when you're bealing paragliding, you know, if you get the rope out, maybe. I mean, this is one of the things that that that Christian says in the story. Did did we get away with something, or was that too far? You know, was that that that's you know, that's a really interesting bit. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's a really interesting question.

SPEAKER_04 45:40

So because I think the question is if you the answer is if you're asking yourself that question, then yes, you probably have. And what's interesting about flying is we can all relate to that because we can all relate to, oh, did I just get away with that? Oh, oh, that's okay. That's just I just got away with it. And you know, paragliding is very forgiving like that. It can be until it's not, of course. Um it's not like base jumping, where you know, uh you can't get away with an incident in base jumping. It's just yes or no, it's binary, black or white. Whereas paragliding, there is that gray area area, we do have the safety margin, we do have the reserves, you know, and all these safety features, they do tend to work until they don't. Um, so yes, I think that thing about asking yourself, oh, did I get away with that? We've all got those. Or did we do something like really cool? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I think the answer to that is no, isn't it? It's like maybe it is, maybe it didn't. Although both both can probably exist at the same time, both can be right at the same time. You did something really cool and you got away with it. Don't do it again, maybe.

SPEAKER_03 46:50

Ed, let's leave it there.

SPEAKER_04 46:52

Great chatting to you. And uh yeah, have a good weekend. Enjoy the flying, and we'll see you next week. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_03 46:58

Goodbye.