The Jedi Council Counsel

Mentoring? Being mentored? Wise counsel? The Jedi Council? Hear about all of this and more in this week's episode with Blake and Sam! Because even if we don't realize it, it's vital to be giving and receiving wise counsel.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hello. Hey guys. My name is Sam. This is Blake. And this is the Narrow Road Podcast. We welcome you to another episode.

SPEAKER_00 0:11

We welcome you to another episode of the Narrow Road Podcast. I said it better. Oh. Alright.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

No, you didn't put it on.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Uh question: how much do you pay for your haircut? I pay $20. How much do you pay, Sam?

SPEAKER_02 0:34

Forty-eight doll is not that much for a haircut. Or for a high quality haircut, that is, it is not that outrageous.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Okay. Well, we're not gonna say like who cuts our hair, we're not gonna throw anybody under the bus. Forty-eight dollars for a haircut. Hey man.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Outrageous. High quality services require high quality prices. It's forty dollars for the haircut and an additional eight for the tip. That makes no sense. Because he just nailed it so good that I had to give him the tip. No.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Well your haircut is not twice as good as mine. Well, I'll be the judge of that. I'm looking at it right now. You need to check your check your eyes, bud. Well we'll let the audience decide. Yeah. This week. We'll post our haircuts on our services. Because I got a haircut last Friday, which was also pretty recent. So they're both fresh. Yeah. They're both fresh. Mine was 20. Yours was 40. Eight. We'll see. Well, 48 with tip. Mine was so yours was 40 with no tip. Mine was 20 with no tip. So we'll see. It's not that bad. Not that outrageous. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:51

We'll see what the people think. Alright, Blake. What do you know about wise counsel?

SPEAKER_00 1:59

What do I know about why? Okay. My bad. Do not disturb. My coworker just said, sorry to interrupt your early departure, comma. I'm not going to read the rest. Oh. Do not disturb. Actually, I'm going to respond real quick while I respond to you. Tell her to read my email. That's what I'm telling my coworker. And I'm telling you that I thought of the uh randomly um from Star Wars. For some reason, I was thinking of like the Jedi Council. Like Yoda and Mace Windu. Like they're very wise. So you think of a council with an eye. Yeah. That's w that's what came to mind. I know that's not what we're talking about today. For some reason, I thought of like the Jedi Council. Could be a Jedi Council, theoretically. And they were idiots. Oh. They were idiots. Were they? I've I haven't seen Stallboard. I mean, they were stupid. They had no idea that Darth Sidious was like corrupting them from within. And he's just planning Order 66 and murdering all of them. Spoiler alert. Well, if you haven't seen it by now, whatever. Anyways. Wise Counsel. C-O-U-N-S-E-L. I know it's important. I know we should be seeking out wise counsel. Uh, but I also know I don't like it. I don't like when people give me wise counsel because I don't always like to hear it. Yeah, because it's usually things I don't want to hear. What do you know about wise counsel?

SPEAKER_02 4:04

Yeah, I I think that's a good point. Um I think that the value in wise counsel is found in in how you look at it. Um you know, some people go through life wanting to feel good and wanting everybody around them to affirm what they're already doing. Um and others want to actually grow. And and uh you know, for for me, I I know that I've I've struggled in the past with accepting wise counsel because I think that I already know everything myself and that nobody could possibly tell me something that I don't already know, or or maybe if they're telling me something I don't like to hear, I'm like, well, you know, they're wrong anyway, so I'm just not gonna listen. So yeah. What what is wise counsel? Give us give us a a definition of wise counsel, Blake.

SPEAKER_00 4:54

Yeah, I mean it's wise counsel, I don't know, it's like, okay, it kind of changes based on, okay, are you giving wise counsel or are you receiving wise counsel? So it kind of depends on the context, I guess. It's like if you're giving wise counsel, you are like to me, I think you're typically maybe someone with more experience, or maybe you know more, or you've been through something that somebody else hasn't. So you're sharing that experience and that knowledge with that person in the hope that maybe that person doesn't make the same mistakes you did. Or, you know, maybe you were prideful in a certain situation and you're hoping that that person doesn't fall into that same trap that you did in whatever situation it was. Um, like that's giving wise counsel, and then receiving wise counsel is kind of where it's flipped around. It's like you see someone else in your life who has more experience, and you're receiving those words of wisdom. And it doesn't necessarily have to be somebody older. I kind of picture it as somebody older and wiser. I guess it doesn't have to be, but I picture it as somebody who's maybe been through a situation who has more experience, who's able to say, hey, here is what I have been through, here's what I've experienced, here's what I've seen, here's what I maybe know about this, and here's what I want to share with you about it. That's what I think of wise counsel as. So it's more, I don't know, sharing sharing things out of a desire to lift someone else up and benefit them than it is like let me tell you what an idiot you are, or let me show you how you're wrong. Like if you're giving wise counsel to somebody, it's really not wise counsel if you're just belittling somebody or you're just talking down to them. You know what I mean? Like, I think there's ways that it's really just kind of being a jerk to somebody. Um, and then on the other side, it's like what we were just talking about do we really want to receive that counsel, or are we kind of like now, I think I already know what I'm doing, so shut up, old man. It's like when our, you know, when our dad or our granddad tries to tell us something and we're like, what are you talking about? You have no idea what you're talking about. You're like 60 years old. Who are you? Who are you? I don't even know who you are. Who are you? Crazy person. Is that what you say? Yeah. You crazy person.

SPEAKER_02 8:05

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

Anyway. Yeah. That was really roundabout. No, I yeah, I I think you're right. I I think that in my mind, I I sort of like that imagery that you gave of of a Jedi council. You know, it could be um one person, it could be many. It's it's a person or group.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

Much advice you seek. Wow, you did way better than mine just sounded like Yoda. It's either Yoda or Fozzie Bear.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

Now he's just like regurgitating.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

Anyway, continue your your thought.

SPEAKER_02 8:46

Yeah, it's like a a person or a group that you go to seeking um wisdom or seeking counsel on something. Sometimes I go to my wise wise counsel just to um speak my thoughts out loud. I bounce off an idea uh um from them. I I tell them how I'm planning to deal with the dis a situation or where I have no idea how I'm planning to deal with the situation. Um yeah, I I think it's it's it's about accountability and about um, you know, iron sharpening iron, Proverbs 27, 17. That's um that's what I think of when I think of wise counsel.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

So Yeah. Yeah, so maybe it would help uh help people to kind of visualize what this looks like in real life. Maybe if we talked about some people in our lives who kind of gave us some of this wise counsel. Like maybe we're in that sort of mentor role in our lives. Like I can I can think of a few, and maybe you can too, Sam. Um but like, you know, when I when I think about people just through the years who have given me wise counsel, I mean, I can think of several. And again, they were all people who were older than me. They were people who I respected, they were people who I looked up to, they were people who um, you know, maybe they were a coach, they were a teacher, they were people in those kinds of roles that you just kind of naturally look up to and you say, hey, you know, they're somewhere that maybe I want to be someday. And you just kind of look at them and say, hey, I I think they maybe know what they're talking about. Um and you see them as an example, so I don't know. I don't know if I should name specific names or not, but I can think of a a coach uh through high school who I would got really close with, and he he just taught me a lot of things. He taught me how to work hard, he taught me how to stay accountable, taught me how to show up even when I didn't want to show up, um, taught me a lot of things about life that I think are really important, a lot of wise things. And yeah, that was getting really loud because I'm getting really close to the mic. My bad. I'm getting all fired up. Um yeah, a teacher I had in my senior year of high school, he was extremely wise. He taught one of our I went to a Christian school and he taught one of our Bible classes, and I just loved listening to him talk because he was wise. Like the things he would say, it was like, man, this guy knows what he's talking about. So I would stay after class or after school a lot and just listen to him talk and ask him questions and ask him questions about my life and listen to what he would have to say, and he would just give me answers to things. And it was just a lot of wise counsel from him. Um when I was in college, my college leader, and I still have a close relationship with this guy, um, he baptized me a few years back, and yeah, like I said, we're still in touch today. I mean, he has given me a lot of wise counsel through the years. So I think I think there there can be lots of people in our lives that can serve in kind of that mentor wise counsel role. And Sam, I think you put your name down. Did you put your name down there kind of as a joke? Oh no, I was it real?

SPEAKER_02 12:14

No, you put that down, right? I didn't I didn't do that. I thought you put that. You know, my my dad, my coach, Sam Harless, all of my mentors that I look up for.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Oh, I thought you put it down, but I did I was serious.

SPEAKER_02 12:30

Oh, okay. Yeah, I put it down.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

Even though you put it down, I was gonna say that it's a legitimate like I do think, even though you are younger, you and I have a close relationship, and there have been times through our conversations that I think you have given me wise counsel. So I don't I don't think, like, even though we've talked about how maybe, you know, we think of wise counsel coming from somebody older, I don't think that means it can't come from somebody younger. Because I think you've encouraged me and whether you realize it or not, given me advice on things and helped me look at things from a different perspective. Um, and you have given me counsel on things and helped me see things differently. Um and I've appreciated that through our relationship. So thank you for that. Um so anyway, that's just a few people uh in my life that have kind of served in that role. So I don't know. I don't know if you can think of any, Sam from your perspective.

SPEAKER_02 13:33

Yeah, I mean I I think that um, you know, like like Blake said, wise counsel can look very differently um from case to case. Um I I think of my parents as as my wise counsel, um, and and that's more more of a mentorship role, like like Blake was talking about, uh an older person that um and we'll go into this uh uh um in a few minutes after this, but um Blake. I I think of Blake in in high school and and now. Yes, yes. Um he yeah, he served as a mentor role and um he gave me wise counsel and um and and you know sort of gave me some some wisdom and and guided me through some stuff. Um but I also think of my uh men's discipleship group. I I think of my my small group that and you know some of them are a little older than me, some of them are younger than me, some of them are my age. I I think that um they are my wise counsel counsel, counsel with an E, counsel with an I. Um I think that they um they provide a lot of really um really good insight and I and I trust them and I go to them um when I'm when I'm walking through something and I want to hear their opinion. So yeah, I I think that wise counsel can look very differently um from case to case. And that's sort of what will lead us into our next um sort of section here is we wanted to briefly go over what the two types of wise counsel are as I see them. So we already mentioned a mentor is um and that's what I that's what I you know classically think of as wise counsel, as somebody who is um maybe older than you, maybe wiser, with more life experience, and it's someone that cares about you and wants to see you be successful. And like Blake said, that can be a coach, that can be a if you're if you're a high schooler, that can be a youth leader, that can be a parent, or that can be just someone that that um that you know that's that's in a a friendship role but also a mentorship role. Um and that's and that's very valuable, you know, for for somebody like that to invest in you and to um and to share with you some of their experiences in the hope that you don't um repeat some of their mistakes that they've made. So so there's a a mentor and then there's sort of an accountability partner or like a like a fellow disciple. So so is that I for that I I think of um some of my friends that are my age, right? And and just because they're my age, just because they've experienced stuff that um that is around the same stuff that I've experienced, just because they're in the same season of life that I'm in, doesn't mean that they don't have very valuable insights to offer um when it comes to things that I'm walking through, when it comes to keeping me accountable, when it comes to me um coming to them for just to bounce some ideas off of them for for advice. So yeah, I think that there's a mentor and there's a accountability partner slash a fellow disciple.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

Yeah. Yeah, I think I think that's a good way to to kind of break it down. Um break down this idea of of wise counsel. Um yeah, I think we've been talking about it more from that mentor side. But I like looking at it from that accountability partner um yeah, like sort of fellow disciple side too. Uh it's sort of interesting, like when we're younger, I think we think more in terms of like who could be a mentor to us, and I think that makes more sense to us. Like I know it still does some to me. It definitely did kind of high school, college, and I still consider myself a young adult. Like that mentor thing makes more sense. Like as you are growing up and figuring life out, it's like, oh, I need a mentor. I need somebody to kind of help me figure things out because I I don't know what I'm doing. And then it's kind of like as you get older and you start to figure things out. I don't know, it's like maybe you have more people that are sort of on the same level as you, and then you start to mentor more people who are younger than you, I guess. I don't know if that's the way it's supposed to happen. It kind of seems like that's the way that it does happen, though. Like it's as you get older and hopefully are becoming wiser, you are mentoring more people who are younger than you. But I think too, we can kind of make the mistake of as we get older, and I think that I've maybe started to do this, like as we get older and again hopefully wiser, like we kind of can start to think that we maybe don't need a mentor anymore. Uh like maybe we start to think we've got it figured out, and we don't need someone in our life to be to be that person anymore, to be that person to help us see where we might have a blind spot, or help us see what might be coming 10 years down the road. Like, I don't have anybody like that in my life right now. I probably should, but I don't. Like when I was 20, in my early 20s, I had people like in their late 20s, early 30s, that I had relationships with that served in that mentor role. Now, I'm in my early 30s, I can't really think of anybody that's in like their early 40s, you know, in that maybe different parenting stage, 10 years down the road that I can talk to about stuff. So it's kind of interesting. I don't know. I don't know if I'm making any sense, but it's almost like maybe we hit a point, or at least I have, where we start to think, okay, I've kind of got this figured out now. Maybe I don't need a mentor anymore. And I think that can be a mistake too. Um, so I don't know. It's it's interesting to think about these two ways to split it up, like this mentor and this accountability partner and like fellow disciple thing, and like, you know, what what should that look like in different stages of our life? And do we ever grow out of being a mentor? Do we grow out of, you know, needing an accountability partner? You know, I don't know. Like, do we hit a point like where we're wise enough to where we're just a mentor? We don't need accountability partners anymore because we're 65 and we, you know, I mean it's just it's interesting to think about all that. So anyway, I don't know. I'm going on a on a tangent, but I like the way you split that up, Sam, because it's it's interesting to think about it.

SPEAKER_02 20:30

Yeah, yeah. I I um I think that's a good point. And um and I'll I'll just be honest here. Um and this sounds sort of ridiculous, but um as I was graduating high school, I and I didn't know it at the time, but looking back, I sort of got in the mindset of of thinking that I knew everything. Like I I I I was I had gotten to a state where I genuinely believed that I had most most things figured out, you know? Um and I I still luckily I I still was um I had a lot of mentorship roles in my life and I had a lot of I put myself in a position where I had a lot of accountability that was surrounding me that wasn't that I don't want to say it wasn't easy to escape, but it certainly wasn't easy to just shrug off because it was a part of my everyday routine. But I soon found out that I I don't know everything, you know, and and a lot of that came from um life, a lot of that came from um from working in ministry. It was it became the most beautiful kind of humbling, um realizing that, you know, I I believe to that point that you ended on Blake that um nobody is ever too old to need wise counsel or to certainly benefit from it. Um I I I think that, you know, I do think that there to a to a certain level there are some people that could benefit from some an an older person pouring into the them than others, more than others. But um but yeah I I think that accountability and um fellowship is not something that we can grow out of. Um you know where you don't become any less broken and in in any less need of uh fellowship as you get older. So you know I I think that like you said like you said Blake our need and our our the fact that we could benefit from fellowship doesn't go away as we get older but um it is a beautiful thing to watch. E some of my friends and and and it's fun myself to uh go from somebody that is like getting, getting getting ha having other people pouring pouring into me to entering a season in my life where I still have a ton of mentors but also I get to pay it forward now and I get to turn around and pour into somebody else um and to share with them some stuff that I've learned along the way um no matter what that looks like. So yeah I I think that um everybody everybody could benefit from a mentor um or or a fellow disciple somebody that cares about their well being and is there to um point them towards Christ and and give them biblical feedback and insight with whatever they may walk may be walking through. So yeah yeah makes sense all right so how do we find a mentor? We we know we know what they are we know why they're important but how do we find one? How how do we become one and how do we find one? Well step number one and Blake you wrote this down is is don't force it. Don't force it.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

Yeah this one's kinda this has always been sort of a sticking point for me just this idea of because I mentioned a few minutes ago like I don't really at this point in my life have a mentor um and at different points in my life I haven't necessarily had a mentor so it's been you know at those points in my life I've always had this question of okay well how do I find a mentor? How does that happen? Um do I pray for one? Do I try to find one at church somehow? I mean how do you do that? I I don't really know um you know one thing that I've found is yeah not not putting pressure on myself to make that happen. Uh because there have certainly been times in my life where I have thought that I was doing something wrong um by not having a mentor in my life or I was messing something up somehow or I needed to be doing something differently. I d I don't know. Like I I think I was I I don't know. I mean I think I've just kind of thought about this the wrong way a lot and have just kind of tried to force it in the past and and have overthought it and thought like God I really need a mentor in my life can you make this happen and and I don't know. It's just instead of being this like just trusting in God thing, it's been this thing that I've tried to almost force to happen if that makes sense. Um so I don't know that that's why I wrote that down don't don't force it um and yeah I don't know I don't know if that makes any sense but that's that's definitely been relevant to me at different points in my life.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

Yeah yeah I think that's a that's a great point. Um you know obviously Blake said you know Blake you said that you started to wonder maybe why you didn't have a mentor, where where you could find one in in high school, what was going on. I think that's it's important to remember that um while God will give us the resources that we need um in order to live a holy and pleasing life to him and he'll give us what we need in order to um to be successful, um sometimes that doesn't look the way that we think it will. You know, and um and we'll never know why God um doesn't give us exactly what we want sometimes to a point we can trust the fact that, you know, sometimes what we want isn't what's best for us even if we think it is because we're spiritually blind, unable to see the full picture unlike God is but um you know yeah so I I I can put myself in your shoes there and um and uh I can definitely see how that might have been frustrating um or even if if you're listening to this frustrating that that right now you maybe don't um feel like you have somebody that um you can go to for advice, somebody that is intentionally um pouring into you. So yeah, I I think that my um my word of advice would for that would just be to pray about it and to be intentionally looking to to put yourself in situations and in positions where um that could become a possibility. So yeah that that's a good point. Don't don't try to force it.

SPEAKER_00 27:41

Yeah yeah definitely and yeah I I wrote a a few other things down too and you you mentioned one of them Sam uh praying um praying for God's wisdom and for his direction and and I'll really kind of piece a few of these other ones together because because I think they can kind of be uh put together into into a couple of points here. Um you know if you're if you're thinking about you know if if you have a desire for a mentor in your life um you know we just talked about not trying to to force it to happen not saying you know God this is something I I want to happen right now there's something wrong if it's not happening. Um so yeah first just coming to God with it and saying God I I do have this desire. I think there are things I can learn um there's this relationship in my life that I'd like to have um I think there are ways that I can grow from having from have yeah from having this kind of relationship in my life um so yeah praying and asking for God's wisdom and direction then looking at the current relationships in your life because you never know that mentor might be in your circle already and you may just not know it. I mean it it might be somebody that you already know and I think that's a mistake that I've made in the past too is I've kind of thought and had this pressure about oh you know this mentor must be like this hidden mysterious super spiritual incredible person who's gonna change my life and do all these incredible things for me and I've just got to find who this person is um and they're yeah they're gonna be like Jesus 2.0 they're gonna change everything but really they might already be in your life um and yeah I mean you know maybe if you are praying about it and you think about it a little bit you might realize huh I already have a relationship with so and so I might actually be able to ask so and so to coffee and have a conversation with them. And then maybe we go to coffee again and maybe that starts a relationship that grows into this kind of mentor mentee relationship. I don't know. I don't know how that that might start but you never know um how something like that could start and you may already know that person. They may already be in your circle um and then then I think thinking too um because I've heard this said a lot you know you have to what's the saying it's like with friendships you have to be a friend to get a friend is how what is it you have to what are you talking about? What is the shoot? I know s somebody listening is like sh scre screaming it at me. You have to be a friend to get a friend?

SPEAKER_01 31:05

That doesn't sound right thank you for being a friend you have to it's something about something about friendship.

SPEAKER_00 31:17

But like if you expect to have friends you need to be a friend something like that. Something to that effect there's a better way to say it. Makes sense so anyway I kind of thought of it in terms of okay talking about this wise counsel and mentoring it's like okay if I'm gonna sit here and be pouting about not having a mentor but I'm not mentoring anybody else how does that work? You know I'm sitting here like nobody cares about me and I'm 30, you know and I want this, you know, I want pers somebody who's a little bit ahead of me in life to pour into me and mentor me and help me see uh how to make better decisions, how to grow, blah blah blah. But I'm not doing that for anybody ten years younger than me. I mean that that you know that that doesn't make sense you know at least I don't think it does. So it's like yeah see who you can be mentoring in your life. So anyway to kind of help this make sense for you all because I was all over the all over the place how do you find a mentor don't force it pray for God's wisdom and direction look at your current relationships and then see if there's someone in your life that you can be mentoring. Mm-hmm anyway I'll pass it back to you Sam.

SPEAKER_02 32:46

Yeah yeah and and I think that um looking at my own life I I think that the best kind of mentors are the ones that want to be a mentor and and the ones that are intentionally um doing that and that are intentionally pouring themselves into somebody else. Like I I you know I I know that um Blake probably wasn't I mean if he was it's kind of if it was kind of weird. It would be kind of weird but I don't think he was just wanting to hang out with like a random tenth grader just because he was bored or just just because he uh just because he had nothing else to do on a Tuesday afternoon. I think he was he was doing it because um because he wanted to invest in somebody and and he wanted to um show me that he cared about me and that and he wanted to help me out. So yeah I I think that that's an important attribute of a of a mentor is somebody that wants to be a mentor and then somebody that um is willing to sacrifice some of their time and their energy and their brain space to pour into somebody else. So that and that can lead us into our next conversation. How can you be wise counsel to somebody else? How can you be a mentor to somebody else and what attributes sort of makes that? So right here we have number one is be a listening ear. I I think that um not enough value is is put in listening when it comes to somebody seeking wise counsel. You know, so often I have caught myself and this is something that I've you know I've I've learned sort of recently in in a ministry role is sometimes when people go to you and and ask you for advice and look to you for wise counsel, they don't want somebody that's going to try and solve all their problems. They want somebody that is going to hear them and that's going to see them and that's going to validate what they're thinking, that's going to validate how they're feeling and then offer up maybe after that some um some advice out of love, you know, and not out of attempting to fix their problems. You know when when you feel like it's not a good feeling when you're talking to somebody and you can sense that they're just waiting for you to stop talking in order for them to give a response. So that's a really important attribute um for for giving for anybody for for just being a compassionate kind person in general not only a mentor or wise counsel is is be a listening ear. Be a listener first and don't try to go into it with a mindset of trying to fix all their problems but um help them to feel seen and heard and that'll that'll go a very long way.

SPEAKER_00 35:27

Mm-hmm Yeah I agree. I mean it's I I don't have a ton to add to that I mean it's uh it's crazy working with college students in my role um how far just listening to them will go. And then that goes for anybody not just college students just sitting and listening goes a long way for somebody.

SPEAKER_02 35:52

It really does and right here we have um a similar point is empathize with them. You know um that that's a that's a big part of of when I'm when I'm looking back at um what I'm looking for when I'm seeking wise counsel from somebody, whether it's a one a a fellow disciple or a friend or a mentor um is somebody that will make me feel not alone um in that situation. Somebody that um will try to put themselves in in in my shoes and and look at it from a from a perspective of, okay, this person, this isn't just another problem to solve this isn't a puzzle to solve, but this is a person that is um that's going through this, a person that I care about and that I want to guide. So be a listening ear, empathize with them next we have and share your experiences with them. That that's that's sort of what comes with the um the mentorship side but as well as as well as the um fellow disciple side even if you're in the current same life uh season as somebody else's is share your experiences with them. You know share share it maybe if you're looking back and at it and you had a similar situation that they had. But hold on I'm gonna pump the brakes right now. That that brings me to a side note and don't try to project all of your experiences on what they're going through. And that's something that I'm I'm preaching to myself right now is so often I try to um I I try to make the claim that that you know they finish talking and I say I know exactly what you're going through and I know exactly how you feel. No you don't sometimes we really don't you know it from our perspective we can it can seem to us like um like like we've we've gone through a similar situation and maybe we have but ultimately um I would recommend not ever making the assumption that um that that would be a statement that helps. You know, some sometimes we don't know exactly what somebody's going through. Sometimes we don't fully understand um what somebody's walking through and and how they're feeling and that's just something that we'll have to um empathize with them with with that previous point. So but back to the the main point is share your experiences with them, share how um offer it up first. Don't don't just I would recommend not just throwing it at them, but offer offer it up and and um share how you've gone through a similar experience. Maybe you um came out victoriously maybe you made the right decision with the help of of God's guidance or somebody else's or maybe you didn't make the right decision and and that can be a a place for from um a point for them to learn from. But either way, share your experiences with them and and lastly it's just having a mindset of of having the best interest for that person in mind. You know um I think so often it's easy to drift into this selfish point of view and perspective of wanting to be a mentor and to be wise counsel just so you have somebody to that looks up to you or or just because you want somebody that sees you as wise or just because you want somebody that's going to listen to you talk and smack your lips and yap. But that's not what being a mentor or being wise counsel is about. It's it's about um once again, Proverbs 2717, iron sharpening iron um as as one man sharpens another, it's about um fellowshipping with one another w it's about um recognizing the fact that we are not alone on this earth and that and that we're put here together in order to push each other towards Christ um and lean on each other when um when we feel weak. And it's ultimately about um showing the other person that you care. And it's it's it's you know so that's a mindset that I've battled in the past too is is having their best interest in mind and always looking at things from a biblical lens, not from a lens of of what makes you look best, not from a lens of what feels good, but from a lens of of truly um what you think that the Bible would tell them about that um of how um of how a biblical worldview might might be of assistance um in that situation. So to recap, be a listening ear, empathize with them, share your experiences with them and always have their best interest in mind looking at things through a biblical lens.

SPEAKER_00 40:14

Yeah yeah that's great um yeah I think you said all that really well and summarized that really well Sam I mean those are great ways to um to give wise counsel to somebody else if you are doing those things you are putting the person first um and showing that person that you care about them and want to help them become more like Jesus and like you said Sam you're not showing them that you just want to talk that you just want to look good that you just want to be this wise person but you want to genuinely help them be a better person. And when we look at scripture and we see mentors in scripture like Paul to Timothy Saul before he went crazy who was a mentor to David Moses to Joshua as he was leading the Israelites Joshua was watching him Jesus to his disciples he's kind of the ultimate picture of that mentor though these things that you just talked about are the things that we see these mentors doing they are giving that listening ear they're sharing their experiences when it's appropriate. They're not always just saying oh yeah I know exactly what you're talking about but they're sharing their experiences when it makes sense they're empathizing they are putting themselves in the shoes of the people around them and trying as best they can to to understand what the people around them are going through. And like we've been saying they really have the people around them the their best interests in mind. They want to help the people around them be more like Jesus um so yeah I don't know yeah I think I think that's pretty cool. And obviously Jesus is the best example of that um with his disciples. So we can talk and kind of end before we get to a couple of takeaways you know maybe we could talk about what made Jesus such a great mentor because he is that perfect example for us um of what a mentor can and should be.

SPEAKER_02 42:37

Yeah. Yeah I think that you know obviously Jesus is the ultimate example of a mentor he's he's um he's the the great counselor he's um you know he's he's our messiah and and ultimately he's he's the Son of God our our heavenly father so he's he's who we can always look at um for wise counseling. Right here we have five attributes um though we can't sum up Jesus as a person in five attributes but when I think of Jesus um I think of these certainly number one um is as I think of of wisdom. Wisdom. Wisdom wisdom wisdom I think of wisdom and um and and the fact that you know Jesus was wise you know there there's several we you can think of Solomon too in the Bible um or or others or even Paul but yeah in order for you to be wise counsel it is sometimes helpful to be wise now that doesn't mean that you have to be the wisest person on earth to be wise counsel. Playing devil's advocate advocate here doesn't mean that you need to have all the knowledge in the world. It doesn't mean you need to have the book of Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, um, and and all these other books memorized um but it does mean that you um you genuinely care about the other Person that you have their best interest in mind and that you point them towards Christ ultimately. But yeah, wisdom definitely doesn't hurt.

SPEAKER_00 44:09

Yeah. Are you going through all these or are we going back and forth?

SPEAKER_02 44:13

No, it's up to you.

SPEAKER_00 44:14

Okay. Um yeah, wisdom, very important. And it's important to remember like wisdom and knowledge are different. There's a lot of people who have a lot of knowledge who do not have wisdom because they think that they know everything. They're prideful. And I wouldn't want to take any advice from them ever. Um number two, empathy, we've talked about that. Um yeah, Jesus, you know, when he talked to people, when he performed miracles, I mean, you saw him like step into other people's shoes. And you could see from the way the gospels were written, like he you could see him like take on the feelings of the people around him almost. And it was just it was like interesting to see him after he would be with the crowd, like just walk away exhausted emotionally, because he he had taken on all of their all of their emotions and their sicknesses and what they had going on. He was he really was empathizing with them and like literally taking those things on to himself. Um and we can't do that as perfectly as Jesus can. But yeah, I mean, if we're going to give somebody wise counsel, we have to be able to step in their shoes and understand a at least a little bit of what they're going through. Because if we can't do that, then we're just seeing things from our own perspective and our own kind of selfish desires and needs instead of what the other person actually needs.

SPEAKER_02 46:03

Yeah, yeah, and and you know, thinking back at you you mentioned a few minutes ago like some biblical examples of of some mentors and and what wise counsel has looked like. I'll give you an example of what wise counsel doesn't look like is I think of the book of Job, and Job had his so-called quote unquote friends um come to him when when he just, you know, Job was having a rough go of it, to to say the least. Um and I don't think of empathy when I think of how they responded. They were like, well, Job, you must have you must have done something so bad that you deserve to have your entire family killed and all of your animals stolen. And, you know, you're just like, you did you did all this to deserve. They did not put themselves in Job's shoes at all. They just like cast a judgment after judgment after judgment at him, trying to fix all of his problems and and explain, um, explain away. So yeah, you want to look at Job, um, it's, you know, I would definitely um buckle up before that, before you read that book. Um, but ultimately it's a it's a it's a great book. It's one of my favorites. So yeah. Empathy is not found in uh how Job's friends responded. And another thing that Jesus obviously brought to the table was was patience. You know, so often, um, even when I'm thinking back to um how I I'm in I'm in ministry and and I can I get the privilege of walking through life with with some younger students, um, and I see so often, and it's such a surreal experience, um, and I don't say this from a from a high, high and mighty perched on my horse place, but I I see or sometimes I see my my friends that are the same age as me. I see them doing something that I have done that I'm like, you know, watching, watching as they walk into their own massacre. Like, like I I've made this mistake. It's so clear, it's so obvious where this road is leading, but so often than not, uh more often than not, as I've experienced myself, sometimes you just gotta walk through a situation in order to learn. Um and you have to have patience with that person. You know, you have to have patience um with the fact that this is their first time walking through life just like you, and this is their first time living on earth just like you, um, and and being patient with them and and not um not trying to rush like I like I said before, so often I found myself um just trying to like rush the process along and and hurry up and hurry up and fix their problems so that so then we can just get on with this and like like be a be an almost like an efficient, proficient mentor instead of somebody that's patient and and going through life with them. And Jesus obviously is the ultimate example of patience. He was very, very patient with his disciples as they were like just kept asking, you know, as we're reading the Bible, they just keep asking the dumbest questions ever, and like, you know, Jesus, he's already said this so many times, and and they're screwing up and they're they're falling asleep after Jesus has told them to to take watch twice, and he was patient, very patient with them, and that's a very important attribute for any wise counsel or mentor.

SPEAKER_00 49:09

Yeah. I agree. Uh knowledge. We talked about knowledge, how it's different from wisdom. I don't think it's as important as wisdom. Uh I don't know. Yeah, I don't think so. I think wisdom is probably more important than like what you know. But what you know is important. It's hard to give counsel if you don't know anything. I mean right?

SPEAKER_02 49:40

Yeah. Yeah. I I think that I've I've heard before that um no, I think you're right. I think that um well obviously I I started being a small group leader for my current eighth grade boys um when I was a junior in high school and and I looking back, my uh theological knowledge was laughable. It was it was embarrassing. So I was learning just as much as they were at every single every single every single week in Sunday morning. But all it took was just, you know, I was walking through life with them, and and there's there's value to be said about that. But I but I have heard before that there's knowledge and that's knowing stuff. And wisdom is more of an applied knowledge. It's being able to take what you know and apply it to everyday life. Because like you said, Blake, there's a lot of smart people that are not wise.

SPEAKER_00 50:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:27

So yeah. Knowledge is a good one. And finally, we have to end with love. Ultimately, you know, Jesus is love. He he's the ultimate example of what love looks like. He said there's no greater love than this, laying down your life for for one's friends. Um love, the love that he showed us was sacrificial and it was selfless, um, and it was looking out for the needs of somebody else above your own. Um and then that's truly an ultimate example that we can only find in in Jesus. And that's how we should be interacting with, once again, anybody, but um not only anybody, but with with the people that we're mentoring and and with the people that we are giving wise counsel is ultimately showing love to them, showing understanding, being compassionate, um, and valuing them over your own, um especially in the moment. So, yeah, love is is very, very important to uh show to that person.

SPEAKER_00 51:20

Yep. Yeah, it's hard uh hard to do any of these other things well if you if you don't have love for sure. Um yeah, a couple of practical takeaways. We've been going for a while. Um so let's yeah, let's share these with you all uh before we wrap up. Who's someone in your life that you could be a mentor to? No, wait. Who's someone in your life that could be a mentor to you? I yeah, I was I mixed that up. Who's someone in your life that could be a mentor to you? You know, again, maybe think about like who's in your circle. Think about the people you know, who is someone in your life that could be a mentor to you? Could you ask them this week to be that role in your life? And that might feel awkward, that might be bold to ask, but you know, if you're serious about wanting to grow, wanting to grow in wisdom, wanting to learn more, wanting to have somebody like that in your life, I'd I mean, I would say go for it. I'd say ask somebody. Um, yeah. Two. Sam, you want to do it? You want me to do it? You go for it. Okay. Who's someone you could be a mentor to? Because remember, we talked about it doesn't make a ton of sense to say, hey, I want a mentor, but I'm not going to mentor anybody else. So who could you be a mentor to? And how can you do that more intentionally? You know, are there people in your life that you can be mentoring? And if you're doing that already, can you do that more intentionally? And then three, how can you be more aware of Jesus and his desire to be your mentor? Because Jesus is it, he is our perfect mentor, and he's there with us all the time through the Holy Spirit. So how can we be aware of that and of his desire to be our mentor? So those are some practical takeaways as we close. Um, I hope you all enjoyed this episode. We've been in this series called Grounded Wise Counsel. Definitely one of these things that can keep us grounded if we're doing it well, if we're seeking it out, if we're giving it, if we're willing to receive wise counsel, if we're yeah, willing to be humble enough to get it, um, willing to be brave enough to give it to somebody else, all of those things. It can definitely keep us grounded. So anyway, hope you all enjoyed this episode. We will see you all. We won't see you all.

SPEAKER_02 53:54

We'll maybe we'll see you. You just won't know it. We'll see you in the street. We'll see you in the street. In McDonald's in the bathroom. At the post office. In the grocery store. On the road. Why why McDonald's in the bathroom, though? In the McDonald's bathroom. Maybe we'll see you there. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:14

Yeah, I mean maybe.

SPEAKER_02 54:15

Maybe.

SPEAKER_00 54:16

Who knows? You can only be in there for 30 minutes, though. What? You can only be in there for 30 minutes.

SPEAKER_02 54:22

Is that an actual rule? Yeah. McDonald's enforces that? It's on the sign. Do they have do you like stand outside the door with a with a watch and like, oh, been pooping for longer than 30 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 54:32

No loitering.

SPEAKER_02 54:33

Time to come out. They come in with a broom. And they just poke you until you're get out. Just poke you while you're on the sitting on the toilet. Yep. Wow. It's kind of brutal. Get out. I'm almost done. I'm mid wipe. Anyways.

SPEAKER_00 54:51

Anyway. Let's descend. We appreciate you guys. Have a great couple of weeks. Enjoy this nice weather. We'll talk to you soon. Peace. Bye.