Truck Country Wants Electric Trucks with Sam Vesely

Ford built the best-selling electric pickup in America, then discontinued it. What went wrong?

Host Scott Case sits down with Sam Vesely, Director of Marketing & Public Relations at Ford of Cookeville in Tennessee — a store where pickups make up 30 to 40% of sales and the customers are farmers, construction crews, and pipeliners. It's the exact buyer the F-150 Lightning was built to convert, which makes Sam's diagnosis worth hearing.

His verdict is more specific than the headlines. The Lightning drove better than a gas F-150, he says, but it couldn't do the one thing full-size truck buyers refuse to compromise on. He walks through what the truck got right, where the price point broke down, why the Flash trim outsold the loaded version, and what his dealership actually lost when the Lightning went away.

Then they look ahead: whether Ford's extended-range F-150 can win over gas truck owners, how the rumored $30,000 mid-size electric pickup stacks up against Slate and Telo, and what Sam thinks his best-selling truck looks like in ten years. His answer surprised us.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

The driving experience of a lightning is miles better than a regular F 150. It's so much smoother. The power is truly mind-boggling that a truck that weighs that much can move that fast. Driving around town, it's so nice. I mean, any Eevee is like the premier way to commute, in my opinion. I'm an automotive enthusiast and I love fast cars. All EVs in general are super fast, which is super fun, but they're extremely smooth. The lack of a transmission makes a way bigger difference than I think the average consumer would realize.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Welcome to Eevee Insider by Recurrent, where we make it easier to buy and sell electric cars by giving you access to leaders from across the industry. Let's get started.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

Sam, so good to talk with you. I'm really excited to have a big conversation about um electric trucks, basically, pickup trucks, like where they've been, where they are now, where it's going. Um, but let's just set the context. Um, you, you know, you guys are in the middle of, you know, real truck countries, I would I would sort of call it. Like, can you talk about a little bit like your your area that you guys operate, what your typical truck buyer looks like um, you know, in that market, and you know, how they actually use their use their vehicles. Um, just start, let's start there and then we'll get into it.

SPEAKER_02 1:20

Okay. Um, yeah. So we're at Cookville, Tennessee, um, which is an hour uh west of Nashville. It's about an hour and a half east of Knoxville, um, about an hour and a half northwest of Chattanooga. So we're right there in the middle of those big cities. Um and we sell a lot of trucks, a lot of construction. Um lately we've had a lot of pipeliners too, a big group of pipeliners in the area um as of late. Um, and then a lot of you know, farmers and people who have property and that sort of thing. So um they're looking a lot of them are looking for something basic um and you know, something to tow with. And you know, that's a lot of a lot of truck truck buyers. So, you know, we see everything. Uh, we sell a lot of mavericks. Um, those are really popular. And um, as they've been on the market longer, more people are recognizing that you don't need an F-150, um, even to do truck things, like those things are really capable. They can tow 4,000 pounds, they can hold like 1500 pounds in the bed. So um, Ford obviously is the leader in trucks, and they've done a good job putting a truck in every part of the market where um you know you can find something for every type of buyer.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

Yeah. So just to, I mean, establish a little credibility here, like how how long have has your group been selling Fords? And um, and then what share of your business, like overall, you know, new car sales business is like either F-150s or uh Mavericks, like just across not just electric, but across everything?

SPEAKER_02 2:55

We've been in Cookville for 25 years. Um and you know, probably 30, 40 percent of our sales are gonna be trucks. Um a lot of those are gonna be the F-150 and the Superiority, but Ranger and Maverick are you know, they're still big. Um, we're one of the the largest volume ranger dealers in our uh zone, the Memphis region.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

If you can think back to like way when the early days of the F-150 Lightning, like what was your honest first reaction when you heard about that as an option? Um and and also, you know, early on, what did your customers say about it?

SPEAKER_02 3:34

I think it was 2021, is when they started hitting dealers and they started getting delivered. And um, at the time, you know, they were selling way above MSRP, just like pretty much everything else at that point, but even those had a premium on them because Ford wasn't making many of them. People really wanted to get their hands on them. I mean, it was the first full-size pickup truck that was electric. Um, so there was tons of excitement around them. Um, and the numbers that Ford published about them were, you know, they were pretty impressive. Um up to, you know, 350 miles of range, they could tow 10,000 pounds. Um, so there was tons of excitement. Um, and definitely, you know, we sold every single one we got in the early days. Um, but as time went.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Wait, wait, wait, wait, before you go to the butt, like let's let's guess let's stay in that moment. Like, oh yeah, w what did people really love about it? Like of the people who did, and then you can go to like when and how did the friction start?

SPEAKER_02 4:33

Um, I mean, as somebody who's driven one, the driving experience of a lightning is miles better than a regular F-150. It's it's so much smoother. Like the the power is truly mind-boggling that a a truck that weighs that much, anything that weighs that much can move that fast. Even a you know, a base model lightning is so fast. Um, so I mean that that's fun, but driving around town is it's so nice. I mean, any Eevee is like the premier way to commute, in my opinion. Um I'm an automotive enthusiast and I love, you know, I love manual transmissions and I love fast cars and um but lightning or all EVs in general are are super fast, which is super fun. Um, but they're extremely smooth. The the lack of a transmission makes a way bigger difference than I think the average consumer would realize. Um it's there's so much less fatigue driving, especially in stop and go traffic. And when you're talking specifically about the lightning and you compare that to an F-150 or a Super Duty, um it makes driving a truck in the city like a completely different experience. It feels like you're driving a way smaller vehicle. Um that I think is like that's the biggest thing as people love the most is just the driving experiences is so much easier than a regular truck. Yeah. Um and the shortcomings of the the lightning were as I mean, this is well documented, but yeah, sure. It just didn't it didn't perform like a truck buyer expected it to. And I think you know that's the the problem with the lightning was if you it could tow, but then you're getting you can go 100-150 miles when you're towing, whereas a regular F 150 can do you know four to six hundred miles. Um and uh the other issue, which I mean it's continuing to get better, is the the lack of charging infrastructure, especially with Ford joining the the Tesla charging network, that helped a lot. Um, but you know, even still, especially in an area like Tennessee, the charging infrastructure is is pretty limited. Um, you can make it all the way across the state, but you've got to be strategic about it.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

Um unless you're in that white knuckles on the uh exactly on the steering wheel, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:07

Um so I mean the shortcomings of the lightning are really just it was a full-size pickup truck that couldn't do full-size pickup truck things. And and yeah, if you're trying to target that buyer, it's just not gonna work. Um so yeah, that that's really my thoughts on that.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

And and and yet, like for its entire run, it was the number one selling electric pickup truck. So, like, did that success like did you did it feel successful at the dealership after the initial rush? Or, you know, was it more muted than maybe the headlines suggested?

SPEAKER_02 7:40

I would say it's a little bit more muted than the headlines would suggest. Um, we weren't the highest volume lightning store, but they wouldn't sit on our lot very long, even after the early days. Um, we would move them pretty well, especially with the tax credit. Um since the tax credit ended, I mean the lightning essentially stopped production around the same time. Um so we didn't have any after that point. But um I think one of the things that one of the advantages the lightning had over a Rivian or the Cybertruck that came a little bit later. Um I don't even count that as a pickup truck, but okay. Um the advantage it had was the interior is a a copy and paste from regular F-150. So if you did have somebody coming from a regular F-150 and going into a Lightning, it wasn't this crazy change where you know 90% of the controls are in a screen um and the layout feels foreign. Like if you came in from an XLT and went to an XLT Lightning, it was the same thing inside. Um, and I think that's what Ford did really well with that truck, is they tried to keep it similar to a regular truck because the average regular truck buyer doesn't want this completely different vehicle. They want something that they're they're used to.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

So yeah. And you know, they they had a number of model years to kind of enhance, right? And so there were adjustments around, you know, range changes on range, changes on pricing, certainly. Um, new trims, you know, the big one in my book was the heat pump that went into the uh F-150 after a couple of years that really improved cold weather performance. Like, did did those change the the, you know, the what of those changes, if any, move the needle, you know, and really made a difference?

SPEAKER_02 9:28

I mean, those things obviously were were huge. Them adding a heat pump to both the Machy and the Lightning were, you know, those were sorely needed.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

Um even in Tennessee, that made a difference. Yeah, you consider protection.

SPEAKER_02 9:40

In Cookville. Um it's not it's not like you can't survive without it, but you know, it hurts your range because we get we get a lot of ice storms specifically in Cookville. So um we're we're sitting sometimes in the single digits, and it it hurts if you're parking it outside. Um yeah. But one of the the unfortunate things with the lightning is they could never hit the price point they wanted to. It was supposed to start around 40 grand and it, you know, it continued to go up in price. Um, but them adding the the lightning flash trim, that was kind of like the middle ground um that gave you the extended range battery and it gave you some of the features from you know the Lariat um that was kind of missing up until that point. So that that truck was like the best seller. Um anytime we get one of those, it would sell way faster than a platinum would because the difference in price, it was like a $60,000 truck versus a $90,000 truck. Yeah. Um so them adding that that trim was that was something that probably should have been done from the start.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

I described for for a lot of people who asked about it, I described the large, the largest battery pack F-150 as um literally it's 11 Tesla power walls, you know, in terms of storage capacity that you could use as backup for your house. And then every once in a while you could drive it around, you know. And frankly, the price point was lower than the 11 Tesla power walls. I'm like, why wouldn't you do that? You know, yeah, uh, yeah, but um, but yeah, no, I get it too. So okay, so let's let's look forward then. Um at the point that they uh that Ford canceled the F-150, they announced they they didn't describe it as a cancellation, described it as a little hiatus, and then they were gonna come out with the extended range F-150, which basically is a an F-150, but with a built-in gasoline generator, essentially. So, you know, 700 miles of range, you know, across uh EV or across electric and and gas. Um, I mean, for your customers, do you think that solves all of the problems that the you know that the original F-150 had around range and um towing?

SPEAKER_02 11:47

What has to happen with that product is it needs to meet or exceed the capabilities of a regular F-150, that 700-mile range. Obviously, it meets the range there. Yep. Um so as long as it can tow, you know, the 12,000, 13,000 pounds that uh a power boost F-150 can tow, they're the hybrid one. Um I think it definitely is going to get some eyeballs. Um if the price is similar and the capability is similar, the driving experience, as you know, I talked about earlier, is much superior to a regular truck. Um, I think it's gonna take a lot of very creative and strategic marketing to get truck buyers transitioned over to that because you're gonna have to I I don't know if you're gonna pull a new market of people or if you're gonna try to convert existing truck owners into something like that. Um, so I think that's the that's the key is making the capability very similar and targeting very creatively um the right people and making sure they understand the advantages that an electric powertrain has, you know, with the addition of the the gas engine that eliminates range range anxiety, because then you can just go to a gas station and fill that thing up. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

Yeah, the I I mean it does strike me that I mean you you you hit a bunch of times on this conversation around the price point and like where that sort of works and where it doesn't. And that does seem like if you've got you know all the cost structure of throwing all those batteries in there, which have been coming down, right? Yeah, FTG. Oh yeah, but but then you also are putting in a gas generator, which is a whole extra cost, like yeah, that's gonna be challenging to get that at a point where Ford can actually make money off of them. Um exactly. You can't you can't you can't just ask them to like produce them for a loss, you know, uh going forward.

SPEAKER_02 13:49

Yeah, because they've already done that, they've already done that, and we know that you know that it unfortunately ended in in the the product being axed.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

So let's talk about the um the other, you know, kind of like EV truck pickup truck of the future that Ford's really getting uh you know, planning for, and they're planning to launch it next year. So does it have a name yet, or is it just like the universal EV platform that's really boring?

SPEAKER_02 14:12

Yeah, so that I mean that's the platform it's built on, which you know, they're gonna expand it to like a car and a van and all that stuff. Um the rumor is ranchero. I mean, that's what all the publications are are pointing towards. Ranchero EV or just Ranchero? I think Ranchero. So they had a vehicle in the 70s that was a um it was a car-based truck. Okay. Um that would make a lot of sense to make to bring that name back.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

So the Ranchero or whatever it's called. So who is that truck for? Is it the same customer that's gonna like cut over from the F-150 Lightning, or is it a different buyer?

SPEAKER_02 14:46

I would say that it's probably a different buyer. It's supposed to be a bit smaller. Um, they're saying the interior space of a RAV4, um, okay, the about the size of a ranger, so a mid-sized truck. Okay. Um, four doors, small bed, um, over 300 miles of range. Um, 0 to 60 is supposed to be four and a half seconds, is what they're saying. So I would think that it's probably not a lightning buyer because it's a bit smaller. Um I think it's gonna be the buyers who are looking at Mavericks are gonna consider this new truck.

SPEAKER_01 15:22

Yeah, and Maverick versus Ranchero, basically. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 15:26

And I think a lot of uh you know, customers who are looking at a RAV4 or looking at a CRV uh or one of the other you know, electric crossovers like an Ionic 5, they might look at this thing because it's got the interior space of RAV4, but it's got a bed on the back.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

And as the Maverick has become more popular, um, the public is starting to see that you know, more and more people are seeing the utility of a pickup truck, no matter what the size of it is.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

Yeah, yeah. And and and what I mean, to go back to price, like what dollar figure does that car need to be at to really like guarantee success, in your opinion?

SPEAKER_02 16:02

I think it it's gotta be, as they've quoted that $30,000 mark, that's what the Maverick starts at now. Um, you know, when it was released, it was supposed to start at about 20 grand. I think you know, it hit dealers at 21, but um during COVID, there were all these markups and the car just it would never ended up being sold at you know twenty-two thousand dollars where it was supposed to be. If they can hit that thirty thousand dollar mark, um, I mean, that's you know, people are gonna cross shop everything with that. Um, and I think there's success if they can hit that.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

Okay, so 10 years from now, let's do a little prediction thing of like, what is the overall like F-series and Ford pickup uh lineup look like in the showroom? And what you know, gas, hybrid, extender rating, plug-in, and full battery electric. Like, which what what's your number one seller 10 years from now at your dealership in you know, rural Tennessee?

SPEAKER_02 16:57

At our dealership, it's definitely I you know, unless there's regulatory changes that happen again. Um gas is definitely gonna be number one. Um even more than just a mild hybrid you're saying. I I think so. Um the power boost has been it has been successful, but um it doesn't at this point, it doesn't provide a big enough advantage over a regular internal combustion F-150 to really sway somebody. Um they have slightly less range or slightly less uh the power boost has slightly less towing capacity than a 3.5 eco boost. Um it does give slightly better gas mileage, um but I think regular gas is still gonna be number one. Um hybrid will probably be number two. Um and I'm curious to see what the EREV does because I think it has the potential to be the second most popular, but realistically, I think this $30,000 mid-size pickup is gonna be one of the most popular products that Ford is gonna sell. Um the the combination of the low price and the the versatility um and the driving experience as more and more people are gonna experience what it's like to have an EV versus a gas vehicle.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

Um I think that that's even where you are in the middle of rural Tennessee, with all the infrastructure challenges we've talked about, you still think that's gonna be one of the one of the biggest selling four vehicles. I think so.

SPEAKER_02 18:28

Um the the Maverick over the the five years that it's been on the market continues to get more popular and the hybrid is continued to get more popular. And as more people, you know, are in a hybrid and they experience the the electric driving that does come with that and while it's minimal, you do get to experience it. I think more and more people who have those are gonna slowly move into an EV. Um it's a super easy transition to make once you're in a hybrid to go to an EV. Um so as the the Maverick gets more popular, um people moving to an EV is gonna get a lot easier. And I I think you know the driving experience and um not having to pay for gas, like charging that's one of the things that um I think a lot of buyers forget about is charging at home. And and the fact that this has been talked about a ton on you know a show like yours and and people in the circle. Um most people don't drive more than 30 or 40 miles a day. And if your Eevee has a 300 mile range, you can go a week and not charge it. Um but you're gonna be charging it at home anyway, so you're always gonna have your in your 300-mile range every single time you get in your car. And as, you know, I expect over 10 years, the charging infrastructure is going to look vastly different. It's gonna be, you know, way better even in an area like this. Um that concern about oh am I can I take a road trip in this is gonna be significantly reduced. Um and you know, uh the EV is inevitably being gonna become more popular just because it is a compelling powertrain. Um if you've never been in one, you might not know that, but once you experience an Eeve, like it it it changes everything.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

Yeah. All right. So closing thoughts. Um, you know, the lightning was um let's say a car ahead of its time, you know, like we say it that way. Absolutely. Um and and and I think did, you know, for some Ford customers sort of like kind of created a sour taste, you know. Yeah. Um what do you think Ford needs to do over the next three years to kind of earn back the truck buyer who looked at one or had an experience one and kind of walked away? What what are the most important things that Ford needs to do?

SPEAKER_02 20:51

Pricing, I think, is is number one, um, which they seem to be very focused on with this universal EV platform. They're you know, making the the production process way more streamlined to you know reduce the amount of parts, um cut down costs there. Um so cost is number one and number two I think is capability. Um if they want to get the traditional truck buyer in an EV, it's gotta be able to perform more like a regular truck. You can't, you know, cut range in half if you're towing. Um so I think if if this mid-sized electric truck lives up to everything that they they said it will, I think it's gonna change the perception of a lot of people um who are in uh an F-150 or Silverado or whatever that a uh an electric pickup truck is actually viable. Um and so if this is successful, then you know they will consider an e-rev or they will consider a a fully electric lightning should that come in the future. Yeah. Yeah. Um that's kind of the stepping stone, I think.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

Yeah, yeah. All right, Sam, uh awesome conversation. I really appreciate your kind of perspective on all this. And um, we'll we'll check back in, I guess, in 10 years and see see see how do it wrong we were.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

So thanks for joining this episode of Eevee Insider. Be sure to like, comment, and subscribe. And we will see you next time.