School of Shamanism

S1 EP5: Finding home in the in-between with Iza Iszna

• School of Shamanism • Season 1 • Episode 5

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In this episode, Iza Iszna shares her lived experience of walking between worlds - between body and spirit, movement and stillness, grief and freedom. From never feeling fully embodied on Earth to navigating suicidal thoughts in silence, Iza speaks openly about the long journey of rooting into the body while staying connected to the unseen.

We talk about what it really means to live in the in-between, how art, movement, sound, and ritual become tools for survival and healing, and why grounding is not a destination but a daily practice. Iza reflects on grief, nomadic living, trust, and the courage it takes to follow a call that doesn’t fit neatly into the boxes of modern life.

This conversation is an honest exploration of freedom, fear, and embodiment — and a reminder that walking between worlds is not about escaping life, but learning how to stay.

Connect with Iza:

Instagram @nomadicheartart
Facebook: Nomadic Heart Art Medicine


Connect with Giada Gaslini:

About the Host

Originally hailing from the vibrant city of Milan, I’ve spent the past two decades traversing the globe in a quest for spiritual and personal growth and combined with 25 years of international corporate work experience. From navigating the vast landscapes of Australia in a campervan to finding tranquility living in a Buddhist monastery in Nepal, my journey is nothing short of extraordinary. Along the way, I’ve delved deep into Buddhist teachings, yoga, and shamanism, becoming Shamanic Teacher,  Forest Therapy Guide, Esoteric Numerologist, Shamanic and Integral Yoga Teacher and Ikigai Coach. In 2013 I settled in Edinburgh, where  I founded the Art and Spirituality Centre, a social enterprise and the School of Shamanism, where I passionately help others on their own transformative journeys.

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CHAPTERS

Welcome Iza Iszna from Nomadic Heart Art Medicine

Creativity without containment

Finding the centre in the vortex

Guided by the unseen

Where to find Iza

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Welcome Iza Iszna from Nomadic Heart Art Medicine

Giada

feel like a prisoner on the earth you know and i need to break through that and see that we still have freedom we still have choices hello everyone and welcome here to isn't ishna thanks so much for accepting my invitation to our corner walking in between the walls and I would love to ask you of course as the first questions what are the walls that you're walking in between if you would love to share a little bit about your story.

Creativity without containment

Iza

So thank you so much for that opportunity. It's a first podcast that I'm taking part in it. So it's an initiation and I feel like you know walking between worlds is also an initiation. It's part of many initiations as a reincarnation as you reincarnated many times. So my story is like I never felt fully human and I never feel human fully embodied on our earth and as a very young people I didn't spoke about it to anyone but I have a lot of suicide thoughts because it's called it was coming like to disassociation from the body I understood now I understand more. So it was very painful you know to be here and still like struggle and through my own inner healing and to holding space with others I start understanding more energy of Earth and still like trying to to root myself and and it's constant work because you know but it is a journey. So I think this is the beginning but you know there is a also like tools you know I'm using as a sometimes it's a movement in Bhutto for example we say that this is Buddha is a Japanese form of art of dance performing art but now it's all over the world it's transformed so we sometimes when I I've been doing in Himalaya my school we've been taught that we enter like we allow somebody to enter through our body and and then so we awake that subconscious and we go into deep resonance that it's also a lot can open a lot of things within and I found it like you know the drum is like a beautiful tool that helps me to actually walk because it's like resonating something and I don't need to understand fully. It's not about understanding because we do live in the world that everything needs to be verbalized. I'm more connected through the senses through this invisible world that I've been developing for a very long time not very long time but some things are coming from past lives. And also like you know that when I draw and paint again it's something that you know I do feel like I'm entering into consciousness and I it's a very meditative process. And I found it like all that things you know it's it's it's it's it's it's an invitation for me an initiation and to take take that and of course when I go to the nature you know I completely can lost myself in it. Yeah yeah very finished and then you do really feel between and then you I really feel I am somewhere in between and I completely sometimes don't know because it's it's very divine sometimes experiences with the nature right yes 100% yeah and if we need to give a bit of contest uh to all who is watching or listening uh what are the things that you have done in the in the last years uh or this this life uh among the manics because we met each other on the shamanic mass of the shamanic contest but you're also an artist what are I mean though you don't like the labelings but just to let people understand what are the many things that you have done in all these years in order to connect and combine these two worlds together. So you know I I call uh yes you know this is that's I think why that's why I created uh the nomadic art and art medicine that combined art and shaman spirituality I don't I struggle and I don't want to use this word um very often because it's been overtaken you know which words spirituality spirituality yes we are now identity spirituality center yes exactly but you know what I mean I think where I'm I hope you know where I'm coming from you know so it's like so that's why so that's why I so already you know these two names it's like already in between words because uh you know one one way I have that huge need to create because it's coming from expression and I found it like creativity it's give us that free vessel vessel vessel that we can experience express ourselves it's I don't know for me it should be that way that we have that space that we can express ourselves fully and then spirituality like shaman is you know that also it's takes us to the places right and you know and how to verbalize you know how to even describe the journey that we're going through or even we if we overfeed the the the the the grass you know the we already have awake a lot of sense and connection with the with the art so what I'm thinking is like you know I have like study pedagogy uh psychology a little bit uh art therapy so you know this was already like awakening call that well-being is important for me I don't know because of my experiences uh as I was not embodied and then you know and then as a performing artist or or acting but I always was well like even if I act on the on the stage I've been always thought that something is not wrong with me you know pronunciation my movement I always was odd one you know odd what's what's what's what is she and what what what she's doing here you know because I didn't finish academic uh theater school so this is important big things so you know and then I was just like I feel like my my soul is quite hungry quite curious and like to go be beyond between words and I feel like also this this this is like that's that curiosity sometimes you know it takes time to recover afterwards and then you know there is the needs of traveling but the needs of traveling is also not coming from it's something deeper that I still try to you know understand why I feel called to take because they are unpleasant you know backpacking low budgeting and you know all of that going to the places you even don't know and then you're coming and then you need to face the mess.

Finding the centre in the vortex

Giada

So you know am I escaping from something I try to be clear that not you know but I'm still re-questioning myself because it's very important to you know to really fully I think is really time to face out that's also maybe to renew the reason which means doing that it doesn't mean necessarily to be in definition a fixed definition of saying okay this this is me and this is why I'm doing that in and out stepping in and out and traveling from one country into the other one but just sometimes just feeling that you I'm answering this question for which then ask and I feel that I have to move then I have to go there then it has to be clear to you only you know to all the people asking you okay so you are living again so you're traveling again because people want you to place you in a level okay so you are enable in in Edinburgh and you are in that in that on that shelf now and they can then can place you over there and then again once again you decide to go on another journey so how do you do you manage to find your stability within all this in and out right and left moving shifting circles listening to calls and then going back to yourself how do you find your own center in all this vortex?

Iza

Yeah it's not easy I will show you one story for example once when I came from my last journey to India I faced a lot of troubles a lot of troubles that I don't talk about it and there was huge grief and I'm still going through that grief within that I don't speak very often because I lost I feel like something in my my situation life situation changed completely and nothing was moving at the time as well you know I was looking for a job stuff everything was like almost no money and stuff so I was like sitting in this very still place within myself and I draw and I paint and constantly draw and paint I went through that meditative and praying and you know I I feel like you there is determination that you know even whatever you are collapsing and you are very down and and then all this year I was grieving the main my main focus it was like going through that grief that is still here within me now I'm I'm kind of aware of it and and I can speak calmly about it but it's not that I don't want to say it's easy like you know traveling between worlds like you know if you ask me if I will which word I will prefer of course I will say take me you know I'm ready I have nothing to hold with because for me this is beautiful tools this is object but my my soul choose freedom and I had this conversation with myself when I was putting boots on I was like come on my sorry you want to be free and you know and that's you know that's uh so I feel like sometimes I feel like a prisoner on the earth you know and I need to break through that and see that we still have freedom he still have choices and it's that courage you know to find that courage actually to face yourself whatever life it's gonna bring exactly not necessarily choosing amount among the options that others have decided for us or are giving us in order to find our own identity but choosing our own option without the barriers without the borders or creating our own ones if they don't exist how which is which is very much what you're doing creating your own past creating the past that is just the right one for you and not necessarily stick to what others want you to see on what others have created for you in the past and for all the people that are afraid of following such a huge flow of freedom how would you encourage them because it can be destabilizing it can be frightening for people to follow and listen to these calls maybe for people that haven't had the opportunity the courage to do that before and they're still stuck in their Western life because it's definitely we think being here that we are more stick to what to to some predecid path how would you encourage them to just say okay it doesn't matter do it start and do the first the first step it doesn't have to be a big uh frightening thing that you keep avoiding your own life because it's uncertain is a it's not sure because you are not following a predecided step in which you know where you're going and what you're doing how would you encourage people to say this is your call just follow and listen to your heart first of all I would like to take you to the very space very safe space within your body you know and work on your body embodiment that feelings and emotions so through the breath I will start very gently and you know and listen that and start imagining how does it feel how does it taste you know whatever is your dream and how your body resonates how your how your heart responds. So I will do it very gently because I prepare for my trip right now quite I was preparing for a few months because I know it will be hard and I will need to face a lot of let's explain yes going again to India only shortly and India is not not easy you know I still try to explain people what does it mean solo travel and have feeling heavy backpack. It's give me a lot of anxiety I found a lot of challenging situations you know and it's it's it can be overwhelming. So you know stepping in this what's what I want to tell you just stepping in is like yeah like you know before I was like yeah follow your heart I will I will feel in your way in my case it wasn't that way I went always and always I face a lot of challenges so you know you can you can go and go like why your it's your decision I just like want to feel it like whatever ask yourself what is your way you know are you ready to take this big loop of faith and just like okay I'm doing it and I'm sure things will gonna follow and will gonna happen but depending on what how your nerve system responds you know what is your story if you experienced trauma before you know all of that information are very important and we need to be like you know like holding the space the integration process you know it's so important so please like and just like self-tare form now it's become very essential and self-love and self-respect. So really ask yourself are you ready? Am I ready? And sometimes you are not ready but you will know that when you are ready so you know gather information prepare yourself go for for some talks meet people that have been doing similar things gather the knowledge if you are not sure about it and if you are ready completely ready just do it and you know and sometimes it doesn't matter how things take time yeah because people accomplish the dreams in 10 years but they've been just not ready yet and things just open it itself.

Guided by the unseen

Giada

So yeah they have been preparing themselves for that for that time then yeah I think it's because the thoughts was already planted in the case yeah exactly so it's the beginning of of the idea that is starting uh in in that moment yeah I think it's important to find your own ways because for example when I used to go around and backpack my own way was in a digital free way which is was not definitely easy because nowadays we are used to search for everything online but when I used to do that which I enjoyed it was my the the luxury of those times that I could do that it was it was without the phone. So the moment I was landing and finding I was just sending a message to whoever was important to me in that time family say I'm here I'm landed I've landed I'll be in touch back again in one month. And then I was allowing myself just to step into the conversations and being guided of what I could find online on site and just having a hotel booked for the first two days and then being guided in uniting all the parts of the puzzles and just allowing myself entirely to be device free which was very important for me. We're not speaking about ages ago we were speaking the last the last journey that probably was 2000 2018 then 2019 it was it was in Kenya so I wasn't it wasn't again one of the times that I went there that was probably not the country in which you can do that because it's it's a bit more more difficult if you are without uh without the phones. But before that I was always traveling yeah without the phone which was making the whole experience entirely different entirely different uh instead of just also the fact is that I was I don't have also many records of that because I was trying also not to take too many pictures and just to be entirely connected with the people that I was finding online while nowadays of course the way of traveling has has entirely changed and it's your personal choice but make it unique for yourself for your own way of how would you like to decide to go on that journey and reconnect back with yourself can can be entirely up to you. It's your own choice.

Iza

Yes and I feel like the biggest obstacles is fear. Yeah and and you know and lack of trust and all of that of course and it's block a lot of channels and a lot of opportunities so it's like uh I call it as a like it can be our friends but also it can be a huge enemy and it's good to be aware of it. Especially like so you know also like trust like build the trust between yourself within yourself and don't look for permission from other people to do it you know but also take responsibility for your choices whatever it happened this is like tricky one right because but I I take it as an initiation so you know I feel like it can it can be an initiation for you in that way you know that you feel that calling you recognize that calling you can even uh write a map you know you can you can write you can put up pictures what does it is like help you to translate actually what is that about because sometimes I sit in and I still don't know what information are coming sometimes nothing for a very long time. So it's it's your way what tools you use what what sets what you follow who you follow it's a lot of freedom but the choice need to be yours. Yeah 100% and is there any specific journey in your heart that would love you would love to share with us that could probably say this is an example of what happened to me something that really a journey in which you were really surprised by the connection that you made and what happened even if there may be some things that didn't go in the way you wanted or you would have expected or whatever but it still came out as an amazing experience at the from the soul perspective always what do you need to it's tricky but I still coming back like I think that when I was first time went to India it was like 18 19 years ago and I remember I went to for example like that it's so beautiful I I somebody picked me by motorbike and was totally disaster and and supposed to drive me to to the the Ramshala but I already feel on the way that something is wrong so on the way I've been cheated of course da ta ta but I stop and and I take the bus and I continue the bus and when I ended the Ramshala when I was doing my Bhutto school I I went I was looking I didn't know where to go how to go and then I was like walking to cafe and I saw two two monks and I was like oh look at them but then I I left cafe but then I come back and I think I don't know if I they I start talking to them or they start talking to me they they saw that I am a bit confused and then that Ramsala is just basically two two main roads no no no it's not it's not yeah yeah no no no I've been there yeah yeah I've been there where in in the in the between between of course uh the the the sent the the the temple I mean it's not it's then of course it goes up and down I've been I've been in the in the monastery in the woodland uh up there uh over there but and but but you know and what is interesting you know because I didn't know what is the school stuff uh and I haven't got a place to stay and it was getting dark so they took me to them place they they cook for me they they even give me a bed for free they look after me then uh they was from Butan Butan uh man and I I I was like and even though we become friends afterwards there was like even a festival movie festival I invited him there was like a Polish movie they have no clue what it's about but you know it was translated but they came and we met a few times and they was very curious very open and they they took me to the school next day and you know and I will never forget because all of that time was extremely amazing like in Varanasia first I was on the festival like it's called Drupamela Festival when for 10 days was a musician coming from all India from sunset no sunset to sunrise it was a you know a holy rajas and music and then next to the Ganga that you know 18 years things was different. Yes now now it's overpopulated it's even the Ramshira I couldn't recognize and it's a little bit break my heart but you know I've I and it was like I saw like a two old couple holding the balloon you know on the empty street and all of that mountains and everything it was very poetic that really touched your soul and then Land speak through you and I found it like you know when you can for me it's very important that I can connect to the land because land is for me the vessel. Like without land I feel empty, the nature, you know, for me in the cities I often struggle, but you know, it's for me it's like the calling, you know, and when you hear these mountains that are higher than you, when you hear the trees and all of that, you know, this youth smell, you know, like you feel like it's also so tiny grain, it's like you know, that a constant reminder. But you know, there was like so many magical moments that of the connection and recognize that, and just like so much gratitude to you know to this beautiful source because they didn't look for anything, then you know they didn't ask for money, they didn't ask, they was just happy that they can serve and support. They was just in service, right? Yes, exactly. And I found that this is very unique, you know, very unique. And even though the Pamela Festival, we all we didn't pay the tickets, everyone was welcome and was free of charge, and people can go on and go. All of that things are still taking place in India and all around the places. So I found it like you know, I love when the men are not involved. And even though I was like situation that my card was blocked and people helped me, and I could stay at school for some time and I pay later on, people have that trust within me. Now these days, if you say like, oh, I cannot pay, it's like how you're not gonna pay. You know, it's like stuff. I know this is another uh another deep vision in between the walls and all these. You feel it, like authenticity of that, and this really hit me, you know. And I was young and I was like, Oh my god, and I still remembering all of that experiences, and I feel like this is like when when we travel, when we allow our spirits to also be free in that moment, right?

Giada

Yeah, and trust, yeah, exactly, and trust and that things, and people, the right people will always come to us, and then of course ask for a help to the universe. Um we say universe, whatever you want to call it, and the forces out there, you know that you will be supported, but of course, we need to remember to ask all the time, and then they send you exactly what we need in that moment, and then it's still we know, but it still surprises us all the time. Oh, yeah, which is which is amazing because it's fine. We there is that moment of doubt and fear, then the help comes, and still we are a surprise, and it's always the same pattern, the same circle and repetition. It always happens. It's because yeah, yeah, yeah. I just say nothing happens, there is just a moment of fear in which you renew your vow, you take your vow again, the trust in yourself and the and the spirits, and then the the support and help come all the time. So I really always find it something as if it was new, it always surprised me the synchronicities and then I say it's crazy, Gujala, because like well, one story.

Iza

Like, I think it was two, three years ago when I got the money from Creative Scotland and I was doing whether it was. We did one here, yeah. But you know what was uh what was crazy during the per like all the preparation I struggled to breathe. I still have dreadness and a breathing disorder. I don't know still yet what what is it, but I couldn't like rehearse all da-da-da. I struggle. But when it comes to the performance, though, because I I moved and and and I I speak and sing at the same time. I touched the microphone very bad. But what happened? I didn't have any problem with reading. Suddenly, when when when when performance finished, again I couldn't speak, I cough, and da-da-da. Next day step into the uh you know, and say no problem, like it's just an and this is for me like of things of miracles, but I cannot explain logically. Because they don't have to be explained, yeah, exactly. This is like sometimes the walking between words that the logic disappeared, right? And what is logic? Like something our mind can understand that's like is that really real? Sometimes we did you have that moments that you look at things that happened. Is that really real? Is that really what is like we can we're speechless, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Giada

But this is also when you're going also on a on a journey, on a Germanic journey, all the time. And I've got people ask, but is it really what I saw? Is it or I made it up all up? Yeah, it's it's it's the other world, the other dimension that's real. It's real in real. What is real? What is real? Everything is not necessarily the middle world is real, and this real and this definition of the physical reality and world are real. What is real? Something that is untouchable, ungraspable, unseen and invisible at the same time.

Iza

Yeah, because we live in the world that we need explanation for everything, and everything doesn't need to be logical. It feels like imprinted. But all the mystical experiences, you know, and and people go through healing and life-changing journey. Uh I think we cannot explain fully, right?

Giada

Yeah, because people want the proof. I can see it, so I can believe it exists, I can feel it, I can identify that.

Iza

And that's why I feel like you know the power of shamanic journeys and and and ceremonies, it's sort of because they take us beyond time. Time is just the the the boundaries with time and what is like the beyond and below and all of that. It feels like dissolving, we're entering into the different dimensions. Dimension. Dimensions. Yeah, dimension. Dimension, oh dimension, dimension. Yeah, oh yeah, we still like yeah, both with beautiful souls. Yeah, but you know, it's something that we we cannot really describe, and that's why I love the ceremonies. And they take some ceremonies take oh, so long, so long.

Where to find Iza

Giada

I would love to do proper one that takes a whole day. But well, actually, no, throughout the year course, I do some that actually take a whole afternoon, and it depends on the amount of people, but the real one we know take take days or whatever. I mean, lots of hours, and it's just because you don't have any any limits, you just allow the whole flow to happen. And nowadays we always struggle with the time, which things that we are taking these experiences in between what we did before and what we have to do next. So it's always some time somehow limiting, yeah. And I speak for myself as well, I'm probably guilty of that as well. Always needs to be the this time-consuming element, which is like squeezing, squeezing the experience, yeah, yes, beautiful. And where can people find you apart from everywhere and anywhere if they want to connect with you, especially your YouTube channel, uh, medicine moments that is still happening, and we spoke like you know, this also it has its own life and it takes a lot of yeah, it takes work, and uh, and you know, we especially when we are we love technology.

Iza

She hates technology, it's too big world, but you know, it's I need to push, like sometimes you need to push yourself, yeah. So, yeah, no, but I met a beautiful source people, and I'm grateful to all of you. Um Jeddah is one of them, you know, because I found that there's the healing in storytelling, and uh actually because I keep saying that because of the story telling, maybe I'm still alive because you know they give me courage and something to look forward to. Somebody could make it, or you know, I also can go through another day, you know, because suicide thoughts is not the big one, it's not the small one, you know. It's really take courage to do it without um don't say to anybody because I didn't say to anyone, I didn't take any medication, I didn't want to doctor. I just was like every night I was waking up going to sleep with hope that I will not gonna wake up as a child. So imagine that, you know, it's a big one, and I still don't know how I make it through. And this is also maybe the journey that we take beyond words. And I speak about it because I know that many people suffer with that, and I think it's important to raise that voice and say, Yes, you are not alone. And you know, you there is now a lot of support that is available as well. So for you, so please reach out because your life is has value and you're very beautiful, so that is going through very transformative time that needs support. So, yeah, so yes, so you can find me on Instagram, nomadic heart, art medicine, on Facebook as well, and also I'm working on my website that hopefully soon will be uh ready to share with you. It's just everything takes some time. But yes, and um and I think this is the main channels. And I started Pattern, Patron, I think about uh recently, but I post on Instagram like you know, sharing on Patreon, Patreon, Patron, uh another uh platform for artists, and and but I think I think my pronunciation is very bad because I cannot memorize stuff, beautiful source. That's just my word that doesn't really uh yeah, but anyway, things will be accessible for you, but most important, like Instagram and Facebook, more active and on Sticker, Instagram being honest with you. Um yes, like you know, for my dream is like really to create a place where I can connect uh the body work because I stopped learning about the massage because I understood how important it's to get back to the body with the sound, with the you know, with shamanic work and art uh creativity. So I keep dreaming about a piece of land with beautiful souls where we can connect and create.

Giada

This is my dream that I try to yeah, universally playing then once you have the land, then you will not be able to travel anymore.

Iza

Oh, yeah, I will be traveling.

Giada

I will be traveling or building uh everything on that landing.

Iza

But I will be traveling maybe on the land because maybe I wouldn't need to be a huge land, yeah. Maybe I will not need to travel because this is the thing. Sometimes you know, we travel because we're still looking for our purpose or manifest. Sometimes we feel fooled and we don't feel anymore to the needs of traveling, right?

Giada

Oh yes, I I had uh the need of traveling for so many years, and now we're seeing he has a quiet down and probably because I've I've created the art spirituality center, so then my my efforts, everything, my my heart is fully drawn to Edinburgh, so I don't feel that need that because probably I've already I mean traveled for for for over 20 years for different reasons, personal, working reasons or whatever. So I know the the travel, the passion for travel is will always be there because it's come from my family. So it's deeply inside my own heart, but I think uh it just sometimes it takes it needs a pause, and then it will restart with a new with a new shift, within with new reasons, with a new, probably with with new eyes, and that part still needs to come, which is not for me at the moment, but I'm I'm aware that it will come back again once probably this mission has come to not to an end, it's it's come to a fulfillment, then it will be the second effect, the last the last physical. I think there is more waiting for us. We don't know.

Iza

Actually, this is the thing we actually don't know. And this is kind of exciting, it can be scary, right? Yeah, yeah. No, it's fine, it's for me. Sometimes I like to know. You see, so for me, it's like aha, I am the one that is even though I'm now preparing for myself and I get like a little I have sometimes panic attacks, small panic attack, anxiety, and all of that. But I do, but I still happening, you know. This is Jada, this is the things, you know, it's just part of our personality because we hear so many things, and I think I'm more aware what I need to hear about it. Uh they still uh existing, but how they approach them is very important. And I speak about it very openly, you know, because somebody will say, Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But you hold how you can hold space for others. Yes, you we can, you know, even if we're going through things doesn't mean that we are not working on each other, and I want to be very clear about it. That's why I speak about them openly. People with different uh conditions, yes, you are empowered enough if you know that you're doing the right way, and and you know you are not harming other people, right? Exactly, so you know I feel like we're living in a very judgmental world, that's why I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm showing up myself as a very vulnerable person that's still feeling that's still going through patterns and different emotions, you know, but I'm learning to more be kind towards myself and be and passionate as we are with the three different other people that we're working, also we need to receive that as well. And nobody's giving me somebody giving me, I gonna give myself, yes, exactly, because we deserve it, of course we do.

Giada

So thank you, thank you so much really for having been here with us. Uh and I know we will connect again with a new talk. Of course we do. After after you will have been uh some other journeys, maybe you will you will start something else, so we'll go come back and talk again about it.

Iza

Yeah, and maybe you know, I really miss uh holding space for others. So this was like because I was like not sure, and things was like a lot of things happening of my grief, personal grief, but I really hope that will be uh a chapter that I I can come back. Uh I will be more in service and holding space for others. That will be amazing, and maybe we can finish uh and blessing for this beautiful place in the future.

Giada

Oh, gracias, grazie mille. Thank you, thank you so much. Beautiful, absolutely wonderful, wonderful singing from your soul, from your heart, um through with the spirit through you. Really beautiful. Yes, to you, thank you, thank you so much.