S1 EP25: Money mindset and the courage to grow with Joanna Crow

In this episode of School of Shamanism, Giada is joined by Joanna Crow, founder of Mindful Money Ltd, for a conversation that bridges spirituality, money, and personal wellbeing.

Joanna shares her unique path of walking between several worlds: running an accountancy and bookkeeping practice, supporting clients through money coaching, managing an online wellness business, and caring full-time for her neurodivergent son. Through these experiences, she has developed a holistic approach to finances that connects money, mindset, health, and purpose.

The discussion dives into the psychology behind financial behaviour, particularly the concept of money personalities: the patterns and beliefs that shape how we earn, spend, save, and grow wealth. Joanna explains how these patterns show up in business, why some people naturally organise their finances while others struggle with money flow, and how recognising these traits can shift financial outcomes.

Giada and Joanna also tackle a topic many spiritual practitioners wrestle with: the discomfort around charging for spiritual work. They unpack why money often feels taboo in spiritual communities, how undercharging can lead to burnout, and why financial expansion can actually support greater service to others.

Throughout the conversation, they reflect on self-sabotage, fear of success, and the energetic relationship we have with money, highlighting how transformation can begin simply by changing the conversation we have about it.

Because when we heal our relationship with money, we don’t just change our bank balance, we expand the way we show up in the world.

Connect with Joanna:

• Website: www.mindfulmoneyltd.com
• LinkedIn: Joanna Crow

Connect with Giada Gaslini:

• Website: www.schoolofshamanism.co.uk
• Instagram: @‌schoolofshamanism
• Facebook: School of Shamanism
• Youtube: School of Shamanism

About the Host

Originally hailing from the vibrant city of Milan, I’ve spent the past two decades traversing the globe in a quest for spiritual and personal growth and combined with 25 years of international corporate work experience. From navigating the vast landscapes of Australia in a campervan to finding tranquility living in a Buddhist monastery in Nepal, my journey is nothing short of extraordinary. Along the way, I’ve delved deep into Buddhist teachings, yoga, and shamanism, becoming Shamanic Teacher,  Forest Therapy Guide, Esoteric Numerologist, Shamanic and Integral Yoga Teacher and Ikigai Coach. In 2013 I settled in Edinburgh, where  I founded the Art and Spirituality Centre, a social enterprise and the School of Shamanism, where I passionately help others on their own transformative journeys.

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CHAPTERS

Welcome Joanna Crow from Mindful Money Ltd

You have to be well to do well

Understanding your money personality

When helping others means forgetting your own value

When spiritual practice meets real life

Where to find Joanna

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Transcript

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Joanna 0:00

What those individuals then just feel is that they're like a mule working in their business and burning out. Whereas if you create a bigger perspective for them, then they start to look at the value like how can I value what I'm offering clients so that I can invite? Because a lot of times it is an energetic experience.

Welcome Joanna Crow from Mindful Money Ltd

Giada 0:53

Would you like to let us know a little bit about uh what is that you do in life and what all the worlds that you are walking in between?

Joanna 1:02

Sure. So I run a part-time accountancy and bookkeeping practice called Mindful Money. And I also, the reason it's part-time is I'm also a full-time carer to my son who is autistic and ADHD, and also has you know severe social anxiety. So he um is a school, he avoids going to school. So I am working with him a lot on that, and then I also run an online wellness business as well.

Giada 1:34

Yes, beautiful. And

You have to be well to do well

Giada 1:36

so, how do you manage to wear the different hats in your life? Of course, it comes in a natural way because life is all about wearing different hats. But how do you manage to do that? And what would you what would it be your advice for people who have uh who have different hats as well?

Joanna 1:55

No, that's a good good question. My my overarching sort of belief is that you have to be well to do well, which is why there's like the natural segue with wellness and business. And then with that in mind, the the thing I haven't mentioned is within my bookkeeping and accountancy practice, I also have a money coaching leg. So that's financial wellness. And inside of like talking about financial wellness and prosperity, you if you don't, you know, your greatest form of wealth is your health, as they say. And so that's sort of the the common thread around everything. In terms of being a you know, a full-time carer to my son, again, his the number one um priority is his wellness. And so I think we've worked together because we believe that everything is interconnected and everything, you know. So the fact that I have to navigate working from home and dealing with, you know, like parenting, like any parent, is, you know, it's it's there as a gift and as a as a point of view that then allows me to focus with my, you know, say my accountancy practice clients on their wellness, making sure they don't burn out. So that, you know, we're in constant conversation about, you know, their performance financially. But inside of that is always, you know, I have a lot of clients who run, let's call them lifestyle businesses. So they're very much they've they've started their business for um, you know, time, flexibility, and freedom as well as financial freedom.

Giada 3:43

Yeah. And what are the most common questions that people come to you with in your money coaching business? What are the things that people are more worried about?

Joanna 3:55

I think it's more, so my angle is the money personalities. So the behavioral aspects of money.

Understanding your money personality

Giada 4:02

Can you explain what does a money personality is?

Joanna 4:06

Yeah, so I'll tell but part of my explanation will involve me explaining how I came to it because it's a great illustration of how it's how you see it in action, is that I used to work in corporate finance. And I would so the projections that you do in corporate finance, the management reporting, et cetera, for a publicly traded company requires that your projections are as accurate as possible. So if you're conservative, then you've got to like so I have a director who's conservative, I would have to adjust accordingly based on how they, you know, that they had a tendency to be more conservative in terms of their projections. And then obviously the other side where someone is wildly confident that they're going to like overachieve. And it's because you're trying to get to that that sweet spot accuracy, because you're the for a publicly traded company, their share prices were dependent on that. And that's when that's when I started noticing what when I was doing, you know, obviously the first few months I was doing it, I was allowing the directors to, you know, give me the numbers. And then I noticed because pattern recognition is a big thing for me and my ADHD, and I noticed that this person tended to be, you know, very confident in their numbers and not achieve them. And then somebody else would be very conservative and then would like over, you know, overachieve. And so then we started to, you know, adjust. And then when I moved to the UK in 2003, I came across this book that was by Dr. Kathleen Gurney, which was called Money Max, which was money personality profiling and money, the psychology of money. And that's when I, you know, I recognized that that was what I had been doing and dealing with. And then from there had just, I've just had this, you know, this 20 plus years of really being interested in what drives, you know, what drives people to, you know, like some people can be so good in business with not spend like not just like they just they're they are like very organized and and they've got their numbers all, you know, all sussed out. And and then you've got other people who might, you know, they feel like they're more scattered, but actually, it's not to make a judgment call that the person who's more organized is quote unquote better. It's just that they've got different gifts and skills that come into the money conversation than say somebody who's maybe more creative and has, you know, can think outside the box and and yet their you know, organization of their finances need, they need more, they need more help. So that, so in terms of money coaching, the thing that most people come to me with is decluttering their money and understanding why they are either not able to earn, they're not able to save. Um, I used to, I used to be an IFA, so they would then say, why can't, you know, what can you know, what's preventing them from investing? Although I don't really talk about investing with um, I'm not qualified to do that anymore.

Giada 7:21

And then also, you know, how do you help them in uh in this blockage of earning, this blockage of allowing the flow to come in from let's say from an energetic point of view, from an holistic point of view?

Joanna 7:37

I think one thing that people like if you can't imagine a future, then you you know, like that's the biggest thing I think I found when I was doing IFA work, actually, you know, independent financial advice for people who don't know what IFA is, is that you people won't save for their future if they don't know what that future is. So, same about earning. If you're just working, you're just constantly in the present and you don't have like a role model, future self to be like, this is what I'm this is where this you're inviting money in from the say the universe just to be a bit woo-woo. And you are going to be a steward of that money to then these are the you know the things that you want to spend on, then there's there's no connection. So what that what those individuals then just feel is that they're like a mule working in their business and burning out. Whereas if you create a bigger perspective for them, then they start to look at the value, like how can I value what I'm offering clients so that I can invite? Because a lot of times it is an energetic experience where people are, no more clients, no more clients, you know, they're creating that that repelling for you know for the business, or they're you know, there's just no scope in their life to expand. So it's a it's a conversation when it comes to earning, increasing their earning and growing, for me, it's an expansion conversation because a lot of times what what I notice when people are talking to me and they haven't grown is their language in just a conversation. You know, I help them in in is as simply as having a conversation, a whole being a container for them to have a conversation, then me notice their language is in in lack mentality or in constriction, and just being able to like, you know, like I'm I'm very I hope is if somebody's just listening to this as a recording, they're gonna be like, what's I'm using my hand hands?

Giada 9:48

But it's just it's shifting the conversation into an expansion one and because and why is there this taboo in spiritual people to speak about money? Say that again. Why is why why is there this taboo in spiritual people, some of them, to speak about money? Because of course they are against materialism, so we shouldn't speak about money. And all the time when they teach, they always say that, but I teach, I share this just because I like it. Just that I know it's not a business. There is always this fear, and I see that all the time, especially also people I don't know, coming and teaching yoga in my center. They don't have the courage to admit that there is nothing wrong in earning money for what you do.

Joanna 10:33

Yeah. Well, I think that's also part of the conversation for expansion is that when you look at your role model self and you see the type of things that you actually could create with having more money and possibilities of like, oh, actually, the fact that I can do more, more good in the world if I have money, and what are those specific things that you would actually do? So when I'm speaking to someone who says, I want more money for um, like so I'll relate it personally because you can see how it would relate to business, is that if you had somebody who says, like, I've had clients who said, I want more time to, I want more money so I can take more holidays. Well, my idea of a holiday is very different potentially to someone else's idea of a holiday. So getting more specific and law, you know, the law of essentialism, like getting into the essence of what you want. So if you're somebody who is very spiritual, it's like, okay, well, let's get to the essence of that, of that spirituality, of what you would want to create. And then you can you can speak to the universe in the sense of bringing that energy and saying, okay, this is what I want to create with that money. And so then you can create a contract, for lack of a better term, with the universe to say, this is what this is the intention, this is where I'm going. And that takes you, you're not the person is no longer, it's not about them anymore.

Giada 12:05

It's about using this money for the benefit of other people, but lots of people are blocked already by the first idea.

Joanna 12:13

Yeah. Well, and I think that having the conversation allows them to then be able to the more conversations you have about money, the more comfortable you are about speaking about it. It becomes, it's one of these things where I can, you know, sometimes I'll, you know, it's not like you ask someone how much they earn, because a lot of people tell me because of my accountancy background and and when I was an IFA, but you can also have conversations around money that are closed in the sense that you don't have to divulge anything about your money. I used to run a workshop called Money Matters. Um, and that was what I would say is whilst we're talking about money, you're getting used to the notion, but just know that you can share without actually divulging any information because it doesn't actually matter what somebody makes. It's not, you know, comparison is the thief of joy. It's like where you are in your in your life. But a lot of people I find don't even ever have that conversation.

Giada 13:18

Yeah.

When helping others means forgetting your own value

Giada 13:19

Plus, another blockage that spiritual people have is to charge the how much is going to charge. So that's why if they charge something and they go over the blockage of not running things for free, they charge very little to make things affordable. But by doing that, which is great, you don't make things affordable for yourself because you're not able to sustain your life. So I always say it's always better to have scale. Then, of course, the problem is that people, because I also in my shamanic year, of course, I got three tiers that people can choose. And not necessarily they will go for the lower one. They can, the majority of the time they do low or middle. There isn't a big difference between them, but at least I can make things accessible to all of them. But just decide a price that is very low in order to support other people only, you are not supporting yourself because you're putting a lot of effort, a lot of time, and that's not paying back that this to you.

Joanna 14:16

Yeah, and also you have to think about from the point of view of if they're doing this for a business, is that you've got like, you know, I think I think with the a technical term is badges of trade, so that you know it's not a hobby business. So you, you know, again, you've got to think of that. Is that if you're not charging commercial rates, then you are, you know, you run the risk of being, you know, of over time not being considered a profit-seeking business.

Giada 14:46

Yeah, but there are, for example, some businesses, like for example, in my shamanic business, normally the courses in the States they are much, much more expensive than those uh that we we charge here. So I've heard that from people sometimes. I found your course is cheaper than the one over there, which doesn't mean necessarily that the one over there is delivering a higher value in that. But over there, shaman is more popular and more pricey in general.

Joanna 15:13

Yeah. But again, I guess it wouldn't be a comparison with the what you know commercially would be, for my definition, would be that you have looked at what you need with business needs and what profit is there if it's a limited company for you to take dividends, or if you're you know a sole trader that you're actually making money from it.

Giada 15:33

You you the rates within the market of your own country, pretty much.

Joanna 15:37

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Giada 15:39

Yeah, but some people, of course, I mean, as I said, they they charge, uh, they they keep this charge of the classes, the courses very low, just because they, of course, then the majority of the time they have a day job. And so they can they can afford to do that, but they will still remain in their day their day job, their own life, because they're not considering in a serious way their other business.

Joanna 16:04

Yeah, and you would hope that over time their confidence would grow, would grow in their, you know, as their competence grows, and then they would feel like they could have this as like a conversation. Like even if you had a conversation with them about raising their prices in like six months and a year, and how do they feel about it now? Where in their body do they feel the, you know, the the friction? And then how do they make it so that it is frictionless and that they can grow into that? Because of course, you could have, I mean, the thing is too, is looking at at the price point that they're they're using, what is the quality in terms of synergy of the clients that are coming to them? And actually, if they charged more, would more of their tribe actually be finding them?

Giada 16:53

Yeah, no, of course they need to deliver delete they need to deliver a value, but the problem is that necessarily it's always the case. Of course, debatable what is value or not, but yeah, it's for each individual.

Joanna 17:08

I mean, they have to, you know, consider. I mean, if they're very happy with what they're charging and someone, you know, again, you have external judgment where you have to sit and say, okay, if someone comes to me and says, you know, I'm not happy with my pricing, and then in the course of the conversation, it's because their, you know, their their in-laws told them that their pricing was too low, or you know, they there's that conversation with what they're, you know, what which part of running their business is actually them running their business, and what part of running their business is actually all the noise of people giving their opinions.

Giada 17:46

Yeah. Yeah, it depends if it's others or it's self-sabotage because you are afraid of success, afraid of putting your prices up in general. Uh, then of course it depends from that point of view what what comes out because sometimes they find that they really want to have their business growing, but there is this self-sabotage element.

Joanna 18:06

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's self-preservation. If somebody's not like doing an action, there's a coaching technique that I use that's it's called inner freedom method, but it's about memory pops that happen whilst you're discussing. It's like where is the um where you know, where is the the energy or the friction in your body and and and where did you when did you feel that before? And then sometimes they can go back and go, oh, it's because of this one comment that an ex-boss said 20 years ago.

Giada 18:41

Yeah, that's a trauma. That's a trauma.

Joanna 18:44

Yeah, yeah, at a small T trauma, yeah.

Giada 18:48

Yes, 100%. It's where in shamanism a part of your soul would live because of that comment. Absolutely. And you see it was just a random episode on an afternoon in the office.

Joanna 19:02

I bet you also get lots of people coming with money issues.

Giada 19:07

Oh, yes, yes, lots of the

When spiritual practice meets real life

Giada 19:09

time that they want to come and do courses, and then maybe they um uh I see that there is the issue that starting their own practice afterwards in general, um, because it's it's great after a course that you take the practice into practice. But not necessarily happens. They just keep doing what they do. Sometimes they include some elements, but doing that as a hundred percent like becoming shakamani practitioner, I still haven't uh, if I'm recalling well, if I'm not forgetting anyone, they are including the practice in what they were doing before, which is which is also good because they are not changing entirely their head, their role, uh, but they are combining the various things together.

Joanna 19:56

Yeah, I would say I've done that myself. Is I've like I used to do just money coaching, but and then like money coaching, and then I would have my you know bookkeeping and accounting. And actually now I find that I have like I'm merging them so that it's you know a coach approach to you know, in certain conversations. I'm very collaborative in my way of like I'm not the expert. I'm always like, okay, it's your life, so let's talk to me about your life, you know, because that through the talking is the gateway for the person to understand their, you know, strategies and whatnot. Now, of course, how we equate that to like, you know, tax savings or a tax strategy or organizing your bookkeeping, I mean, that, you know, is is that comes into play. And then obviously I weigh in with with information and advice, but it all kind of happens in that in that approach. So maybe that's what the shamanic course for them is that they're just bringing it in to have a shamanic approach to what they're doing, which which is also fantastic.

Giada 21:04

Yeah, yeah, of course, because they are creating your product which is unique, because it's included in whatever they're doing, either the case is Reiki, craniocycral, massage, whatever, it's included in that way. But I feel that there is still a resistance and putting themselves out there as a shamanic practitioner.

Joanna 21:22

Yeah. Do you think that's because it's more like I said earlier when I was talking about money coaching? I said, Oh, just in energy, I'm like, oh, just to get woo-woo. And actually, that's maybe, you know, for me in this conversation, going, oh, well, hang on. I don't think it's woo-woo, but I just had this voice of like, oh, wait, you know, so maybe there's like that cultural, like the, you know, the the societal uh, yeah, because there are uh lots of uh proof of cases that were working just one session uh with no explanation uh uh compared to, as I always say.

Giada 22:00

I don't know, six months of psychologists, uh psychoanalysts, and then you don't you don't sort out uh things you mean you can you improve, but it's not the expected result because you're not working with the spirits, you're just working with the limited human capacities.

Joanna 22:16

Absolutely, I totally believe that. I I often say that transformation can happen in an instant, in a conversation, in a shift of energy. It's just it's you know, not to discount it, you know, for sure.

Giada 22:31

Yeah,

Where to find Joanna

Giada 22:32

yeah. So, how would people be able to work with you? Where can they find you website?

Joanna 22:37

Um so I'm on LinkedIn, um Joanna Crow, and also my um my company is Mindful Money Limindful Money L Mindful Money LTD. So www.mindfulmoneyltd.com. Yeah, what would you be able to help people with uh let's say your uh uh core elements of so I'm I've so my accounting practice is is growing, but I'm quite I'm quite busy in that area. It's more the money personality work and the finance, you know, I call it like the financial flow area that I think is, you know, kind of an area where I'm passionate about. I would love to be able to grow it so more people could access their natural ability to, you know, be a person of increase and you know, and and flourish financially because of ADHD and autism. Um, I feel like I have a uh a way of working with you know neurodivergent individuals and in a way that helps them understand better. I have that patience. So, in that area, definitely I'm interested in talking to people about that. And then um, yeah, and that's pretty cool.

Giada 23:56

Thanks so much. I'm thinking that there is a lot of need of approaching and entering into this conversation in this how to how to sort out this element of the lack in order to embrace uh a more culture of receiving.

Joanna 24:12

Yeah, and also some people talk to me before they go and talk to their IFA because they want to get it sorted in their head before they then bring it to like the expert who's gonna actually tailor products for them and give them, you know, kind of financial life, you know, events in terms of investing in pensions and savings plans and stuff, you know. So so for individuals who, you know, aren't necessarily business owners, you know, they can they can contact me for that as well.

Giada 24:44

Wonderful. Thanks so much for your time, uh Joanne. And I'm looking forward to having another conversation in in a few months in maybe a new help, a new service that you're launching or something that can still help more people.

Joanna 24:58

Excellent. Sounds good. Thank you. Thank you so much.