School of Shamanism

S2 EP4: Healing from the inside out with Lesley from ZVARĀ Wellness

• School of Shamanism • Season 2 • Episode 4

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In this episode of Many Paths, One Mountain, Giada is joined by Lesley from ZVARĀ Wellness to explore the powerful connection between psychology, yoga, breathwork and energy healing.

Drawing on her background in health psychology, Kundalini Yoga, Yin Yoga and Qigong, Lesley shares how these complementary practices support lasting wellbeing by bringing the mind, body and energy systems back into balance.

Together, they discuss the science behind healing, the importance of breath and movement, the role of sound and vibration, and why sustainable transformation comes not from a single practice, but from integrating simple rituals into everyday life.

Different traditions may use different languages, but they all invite us back to the same place: ourselves.

Connect with Lesley:

Connect with Giada Gaslini:

About the Host

Originally hailing from the vibrant city of Milan, I’ve spent the past two decades traversing the globe in a quest for spiritual and personal growth and combined with 25 years of international corporate work experience. From navigating the vast landscapes of Australia in a campervan to finding tranquility living in a Buddhist monastery in Nepal, my journey is nothing short of extraordinary. Along the way, I’ve delved deep into Buddhist teachings, yoga, and shamanism, becoming Shamanic Teacher,  Forest Therapy Guide, Esoteric Numerologist, Shamanic and Integral Yoga Teacher and Ikigai Coach. In 2013 I settled in Edinburgh, where  I founded the Art and Spirituality Centre, a social enterprise and the School of Shamanism, where I passionately help others on their own transformative journeys.

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CHAPTERS

Welcome Lesley from ZVARĀ Wellness

Where psychology meets spirituality

Breath, movement, and the art of being present

Vibrating at a cellular level

The slow path to awakening

Where to find Lesley

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Giada

Hello, everyone. I'm Giada from School of Shamanism, and this is season two: Many Path One Mountain. And today we've got the pleasure to have here

Welcome Leslie from ZVARĀ Wellness

Giada

one of the many facilitators and beautiful souls that teach at the Art and Spirituality Center in Edinburgh, Leslie from Tsvara Wellness. Welcome and thanks so much for accepting my invitation. And the first question to everyone is tell us a little bit about yourself. What is that you do?

Leslie

Well, that's a big question. Well, since I've joined Art and Spirituality in April, I've um tried started teaching yoga again. My main um bread and butter, I suppose I should say, uh, a few years ago was Kundalini Yoga. So that's what people know me for. Um but since then I've expanded and trained in yin yoga and currently training in Qigong. And I have a background in health psychology. So I'm bringing it all together in a six-week self-care toolkit that I'm offering here, and I'm gonna offer that seasonally as well as do events in this beautiful space. Beautiful.

Giada

So you already have mentioned all the many paths that are going to the one mountain. The one mountain is healing because it's uh shamanism is healing, art and spirituality are healing. But I'm just taking the chance uh straight away to mention psychology, mind, and spirituality, soul. How do they cope together

Where psychology meets spirituality

Giada

in the healing process?

Leslie

I think they're very interlinked. So people who are maybe quick to separate, like, you know, people who are like less spiritual might be like, okay, well, let's let's separate that, like, let's just focus on the physical body and how it relates to the mind. So psychology is very much um knowing, understanding that there's a link between the two, but it really focuses on the science behind it. Um, in terms of healing, there is kind of like a mind-body link where as you the thoughts that you have that that about your your body and like even your illnesses and stuff can play a role in how well you recover and even the meds that you take. There's something called the placebo effect, for example. It mentions the power of the mind. Um, and my specific area is about understanding how your mind, your body, and your environment link together. And I like to work with the body in terms of being able to heal yourself, not just with the mind and cognitively knowing what's good for us, but also just feeling it in your body.

Giada

Yeah. But if the mind is the one creating the issues, the imbalances, the problems, how can we use the Buddhist would call it the enemy, how can we use the mind to heal what the mind has created?

Leslie

So in psychology, there's something called the ego, and the ego is something we that is kind of the our little soldier. So it's kind of works to protect us, and that's why we kind of stay in these stressed-out states and focused on the threats and you know what's bothering us. But likewise, we can train our brain through engaging in practices that are holistic, like yoga, meditation, breath work, and it retrains our mind to be like, actually, I could stay with these stressed states, I can control, I can actually focus on those things that are more helpful for us and and actually create time to relax and realize that those are good things, and we don't have to just stay stuck in our in our beliefs about ourselves.

Giada

So if you need to choose uh, let's say three main paths in the one that you use uh that are your areas of expertise uh to help people, which one would be?

Leslie

Well, I have four pillars. So you have four pillars, it's fine. They all serve a different purpose. So, what I love about first of all, I have a foundation in Hafa Yoga because in order to have healing, you need to have a proper grounding, you need to look after yourself, do your exercises. So there's specific poses that have an effect on the mind. So I think daily exercise, whatever it is, is a is a part of it. Um, and I think the other aspect is breath work. So there this like the quickest way to reset your mental and physical state. So there's a variety of practices, and kundalini is has a very wide range of different practices that you can experience and from everything from grounding to quite energizing to quite, you know, you're just stuck in traffic and you just want to breathe. Or like even before this, um, I was doing one of the breaths, and it literally like two breaths you could calm down. So I think that's a second one. Um, and I think um, yeah, I think energy practices in general. So the qigong, this is why I'm interested in all of them, qigong, kundalini, um, even just the acupuncture and things like that, they all work on your energy systems. So I think whatever it is, anything that you can utilize to gain energy, whether it is any of these things, um, can help. And the fourth one is obviously coaching because that's kind of my background. And I think that you can attend a class, you can attend a one-off event, but unless you are consistently knowing how to integrate it in your life, you're not going to create sustainable change. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Giada

And Chiganga, which uh there has been slightly a revival, I mean, I would say a revival, but more interest recently. And I see that in also some people offering that. There was a time, for example, here in Edinburgh in which there weren't many uh facilitators in that. Uh, how do you think uh that's the core element in the energy work uh in support of healing of this practice? And why did you come nearer to that? Why did you enter this practice? How did it come to you?

Leslie

Yeah, I think it started it's a kundalini because they there's a lot of links with they believe in like the nadis. So it's kind of like there's so many different energy channels to your body, um, and just understanding how that worked. So I understand, like, oh, I know how to experience it, but I don't understand how it fully works. And then I encountered yin and it was talking about meridians. Yes, it was talking about qi, and then we did Mayo Yin, and I was like, Oh, that's really interesting. And it came from the more Taoist Taoist tradition, Chinese, um, and the yoga is more the Indian culture tradition. So I was like, Oh, these are all pointing to the same thing, and obviously there's like reiki, which is ki, you know, there's all these things about the vital energy, and the same same word, the ki and qi, Japanese or Chinese in pronunciation, yeah. So, and a lot of people don't know how to pronounce it as well. They're like, I always say both serfine, it depends which language you're using. Exactly. Um, so that's how I got interested, and I just it's more me being interested in the science. So I studied under the same teacher who taught me yin, uh, dugo mi chimyoga. Um, and he I'm currently doing like a one-year program where I'm learning it kind of slowly, and it's really about integrating, and I think it's more accessible. So not everyone will want to feel like they can do a 60-minute yin class, but qigong is it's working the same things, but you could do it in literally two minutes. You could choose you know, one or two of the forms. So I quite like it just for you know, integrating into our busy lives. Yeah, exactly.

Giada

Exactly. Are there any practices uh among your own um disciplines that you are teaching that we could all do in a few minutes every day? Something

Breath, movement, and the art of being present

Giada

that uh they will still give uh healing, and that's probably even better uh in a daily way than just the class that we go to um during the week. Uh easy practices or easy things that you would uh that you use yourself for, that you always recommend to your students.

Leslie

Uh um, I suppose that's why I've created a toolkit because every week I'm offering a different breathing technique. I'll give you one of the examples. So a lot of them are based in science. So one is the box breath. For me, it doesn't really work for me, but it's scientifically proven to help calm the nervous system. I personally like the physiological size, so it's kind of like where you take two deep inhales, like that. And if you do it for five minutes, it can really like calm you when you're in a stress situation. And I had a client um who did this, and she said that she usually takes months to get to the state that four minutes took her. So I think the breath work is really powerful. I think the movement, whatever it is, because powerful. Uh, qigong, like you can do really simple, like for example, one practical example of uh qigong uh practices we can all do. Well, one of them is hand support heaven. I'll just give you this it's really simple. So it's one of the ones I like to start with. So you inhale going up and then you reach out and then you let the arms fall down. So you bend the knees and then quite like that one to start with, and then the next one is uh this one it's like uniting heaven and earth. So it's quite good for the tension in your neck, which we all have.

Giada

I like the combination in between uh in between. I like the combination between the sky and the earth.

Leslie

Yeah, so they use like quite um a lot, it's all these things are focused on your breath. So you have an inhale through the nose and exhale like you're foggy up. That's like yeah. So if you do this quite regularly, um, it can be really, you know, you've done your exercise for the day and it creates this nice mindset for you to start your day.

Giada

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, for one one of the things, for example, that we do in shamanism, we breathe a lot with the mouth open because uh compared to the nose where there is an automatic pilot, like uh uh of course the mind then is not present, but when we do that with uh with the mouth open, uh it forces the person to be present, and because then when the moment you stop breathing, you realize that you have stopped. Well, when we do that, of course, with the nose, then of course there are different ways of breathing: fire breath, breath of awareness, breath of consciousness, fragmented breath, and they are all the practices that we do that I do, for example, that I use before doing a ritual, before going and doing something. Also, the the yoga practice, when you do that and you are already in uh it can be an expanded state of consciousness where you are more present, uh, then the final practice has a huge different effect compared to you come from the busy uh day and you you pop in into a studio and you start doing uh yoga, but then your mind is still busy.

Leslie

And I think one of the I never mentioned it yet, but I I I do the gong, I have a gong. Yes, so in the pictures, beautiful, amazing. I've been working more with it. It's more of a kundalini type of instrument, and they use it for the meditative aspect of it. Um, a lot of people like to just have sound baths, but they just relax, and there's there's some merit in it, but also the gong is a very powerful instrument in the way it works, is because your mind is always everywhere. So it's almost like you have a strong um takes you back. Yes. It also has like quite a range of different frequencies, so it causes your mind to like not know what to predict, and then it can quite create a meditative state and maybe similar to what you do, like it creates different different levels of consciousness, like you know, your alpha state, your theta, and your delta, we were normally in a beta. Yes, so it can be quite powerful for restoration and calming and just allowing you to just let go of the thoughts and just be present, and there's so much value in just being in your body.

Giada

Yeah. How long did it take you to um use the gong uh uh connected with your heart, despite of what you learned? Um, what do you mean? It means when you are um using the gong uh um despite uh of the fact is like people when ask me, How do you learn playing the drum? You just play the drum. And then the moment you don't think about uh your arm or your hand uh on the beater, then it's where you start flowing because I remember the first time I was using the drum and you start thinking, Oh, now I need to drum, I don't know, for 20 minutes, and then my arm is becoming tired. You stop the flow, and at some point uh it just doesn't come naturally the moment you forget that you are there, and you are in that. Of course, you are merged with your spirits, uh, and you are just playing but not focused on your body, then it's just like your body is playing on its own because your mind is not uh stressing uh the the action.

Leslie

Yeah, I think I'm still getting to that point, but what you're talking about is like a creative flow. Yeah um and I think first you need a basis, like you need to know certain sequences and stuff. Um, and I've also attended a lot of sessions, but I'm still exploring the you know what my what I like within the gong, but I find it not only affects the people in the room, but also you as a practitioner. Yes. So you become in a mental state and you almost lose state of time. So I think it's just almost meditating first and seeing what comes, um, having that intuition and learning to trust it. And then from the state you are in, it's kind of like a meditative state, you can translate that to others.

Giada

Yeah, exactly. And uh connected to that, uh, how much do you think uh in uh in uh in our daily life, the power of sound uh can be healing to people, starting

Vibrating at a cellular level

Giada

from our voice, starting from an instrument, starting from the music that we listen to every day?

Leslie

I think it's very powerful, and it's an area that I'm getting more and more interested in because I'm not like a singer, and I think that kind of puts people off sometimes, like, oh, I can't do that. But actually, each of the chakras is associated with a certain um sound, it's like a bige seed sound, and kundalin is great for that because it pushes you to use mantra and the not only the sound but the meaning of each one is powerful. So when you have the use of sound, you're you you're almost like self-healing because you can work with a specific chakra that maybe you're blocked in, like say your throat communication, or maybe your lack, you're feeling stuck, and um you're you need you need some like creative inspiration, then you can work with your second chakra, your sacral. Um, so there's certain ways we can use that, and I'm actually learning more about that with vocal toning, and we're gonna give it a go um with the next week's session this Thursday. So using the sound with with the gong and like helping to release what's stuck in our systems, yeah. And just it's it's very powerful, like we're vibrating at the cellular level, even absolutely, and the body stores these memories of the vibration.

Giada

Sometimes it's just like also the words, the simple words of some people can resonate in us and have an effect on us. It can be beautiful in the vibration, uh, in happiness. It can also be a trauma according to what the vibration is resonating in our body.

Leslie

Personally, I I tend to not like happy music, but my partner really loves happy music. But I don't know if what music will you listen, your value? Well, usually I listen to I love Brazilian Zoo, so that's kind of that puts me in my happy place. But uh normal music I quite just like more, more like reflective, darker music myself. But uh it's nice to find the different instruments, and I'm even learning guitar at like at all age, adult age, but it's just really nice to even just connect with music, and I think it's just a part of us, and yes, it's a type of art, actually.

Giada

So it is absolutely, and it's an easy, approachable way of healing that we can use uh that doesn't necessarily require um extra tools or skills. So sometimes people that uh want to come and approach our disciplines they think uh I don't know what to do, I don't feel ready, I don't think I can do it. That's a blockage. Well, when we listen to music, it doesn't require any skills at all.

Leslie

I think it's that difference between passive and active. So you can be quite active as well. When you when you are active, you it's almost like doubly beneficial because not only are you receiving, but you're learning how to express yourself and you're working through, and you actually feel really, usually really good. And the first time I experienced that was through kundalini, and we were doing a mantra like satnam, which means truth is my identity. And just imagine holding a pose with your arms stretched up in in like this. Imagine holding that, and it's and what I love about it is like your mind is saying, I don't want to do it, I hate it, all these things, and then you're chanting truth is my identity, truth is my identity, and it overcomes these self-limiting beliefs.

Giada

Yes, absolutely. You can use it absolutely because it's like all the fears uh coming from from our mind that is just saying this is not possible, and so it becomes impossible because we have we decide that when we leave the flow and the opportunities open, which is actually yes, uh within Kundalini, which is uh actually practice uh which is very much on a more disciplined side and the repetition of some uh sequences. Uh, how does it um uh merge or integrate inside uh yourself in other practices uh in which there is more flow? How do you think the two things uh can coexist uh in when you are teaching?

Leslie

I think you it creates more flow because you're not waiting for the next instruction. Like you can literally, um, Kundalini, you you encourage people to close their eyes. Uh huh, it becomes a meditation, a moving meditation. So you give them, you show them, and then you encourage them. So they just you they just continue on with the movement and it becomes quite of a flow, and you have to like relinquish control in a way. So I think um the thing about being teaching it though is that almost like you have to learn a whole new seek sequence every time. Whereas if you learn yin, for example, you can really re oh, I have a repertoire of like 26 poses, and I just have to figure out how to which sequence I teach. Whereas Kundalini is very complex because it could be for sleep, and then you have to do everything in a specific order, in a specific way, with specific angles for a specific time. So that's why I think it's quite special. It gets you to that state really quickly, but there are many different ways, and I think it's just choosing which works for you.

Giada

Yeah, and probably one of the questions that people would would always ask you when you practice Kudalini, did you witness any awakening uh in yourself, in other people around

The slow path to awakening

Giada

you?

Leslie

I think I haven't personally experienced awakening because I as it's kind of depicted where you're shaking and you feel like this like instant change in you. I feel like for me it's been a gradual process where you learn, I've been learning the different things and I feel more connected to my spirituality, and it's it's not something that happens and it's just a one-time thing. It's something that you have I have to keep working on. Um, and yeah, I think it's also important to be skeptical. Like you can't take what everyone says, like this is what you'll experience because it's different for everyone. I have experienced some students who have felt that they have ex, you know, they were very sensitive and then they might have experienced it. And some some of the practices can be quite activating. Yeah. Um, so it's also learning how to ground your energy and like um there's also different practices that work with that, like um satrasign healing and things that um they think like the kundalin can be quite activating. So there's different ways you can like ground it and also transmit healing to others, and you can even do it virtually, even which is quite interesting.

Giada

Yeah, absolutely. Just like the the behaviors of um uh people of students in the shamanic practice, not everyone is the same. Sometimes you see people uh shaking, uh, but it's not that it's happening all of a sudden, it's just because they have either they have that since birth, sometimes they're very sensitive to energies, uh, empathic in general, sometimes it's just been a gradual process for which then specifically, I don't know, when I teach the year training, the shamanic year training, I see the massive changes in people because I see them uh for one year. And so it's beautiful because you can see what actually some people they couldn't even go on a journey at the beginning. Oh, I can't see anything, I will not see anything, and you don't see anything. Then the more you let yourself go, then the more you start uh um going beyond the the threshold and allowing yourself the visions, and then you see them after a while they are able to do things uh that they said themselves at the beginning, I can't do it. And that's the beauty of that, because it happens in a natural way, and not necessarily the ecstatic experience has to be transcendent and uh and deep in that moment. It can be subtle, but deep, deep inside yourself and not necessarily outward.

Leslie

That kind of reminded me that it's the times when I've practiced yoga, like it doesn't necessarily even have to be kundalini yoga. Um, I've had moments where I've kind of been at a crossroads and I did yoga, and it gave me that space to get inspiration. So that That actually brought me to teaching, actually. So I was I was in a busy like corporate job and yeah, and it was glamorous, and I was able to do fun stuff and had a nice life, but then or not having a life in some ways. Yeah, chasing the career ladder. Um, and I I I created space by doing some yoga, and I realized, yeah, I want to use this teachings that I've had for so long and share it. So I think that's kind of why I'm here and now as well. It's like you can keep building and building, and there's so much we've learned along the way that we can help people. So that's part of what I want you to share with people is like the different things that I've learned.

Giada

Yeah, it's not all yoga, it's sometimes no, absolutely, but I mean, connected to what you've just shared, there can be also different forms of healing that you are actually doing incorporate, like also having to do with people, learning how to speak with people, to interact with different people when I was traveling uh around the world, and you need to adapt to the different cultures and find the right words or the right language can be somehow a form of healing that because you receive from others, you receive from the different cultures that was in my specific case, or um you learn uh you say to yourself, uh, okay, this is not exactly how my boundaries are respected. So I need to learn to protect my boundaries, I need to learn to do self-healing. So every every past is giving you a chance, even if it doesn't seem the one that is teaching you, but it is maybe it's giving you the challenge for which then you decide at some point to stop and go into a different path. And without that, maybe you would have not.

Leslie

Yeah, I feel like I I feel like I can inspire some people because I've been through things where I feel like I can't do it and have a lot of self-limiting beliefs, even teaching. Like I never thought I would want to be in front of a class teaching. Um, but I actually enjoy it, and then you get a lot of, you know, you see the benefit to other people.

Giada

Yeah, and you receive as you receive as well. I mean, it happens as some you are recharged after a class or after a one-to-one session, you are actually receiving as well.

Leslie

Exactly.

Giada

Yeah, yeah, it's beautiful. And uh, where can people find you online uh website, uh, social media if they want to connect with you?

Leslie

Yeah, so I have a website,

Where to find Leslie

Leslie

zvarawellness.co.uk. Um, also on Instagram, same title, just Edinburgh, and Facebook as well. I have a Facebook page, so you can connect with me and I'm also offering like private sessions if you want to do some coaching or one-to-one work for myself. Yes.

Giada

Yeah, hope to do more events yours. Yes, of course. Absolutely. Beautiful. Thank you so much for uh for sharing all your different uh areas. I mean, from uh science to spirituality, it's really a beautiful, a wide range of uh offerings, uh, knowledge and experience uh that you are offering uh to people. So thanks so much for sharing all your many paths. Thanks for inviting and being together in all the walks that you are going, we are going all to in the adventures towards towards the mountain of healing. Yes. Thank you so much for being here today.