School of Shamanism
Welcome to School of Shamanism, where ancient wisdom meets everyday life. This is your space to explore shamanic practices, healing, and spiritual transformation in real, practical ways.
SEASON 1: Walking Between Worlds
We're kicking things off with conversations that matter. Each episode, I sit down with healers, teachers, and practitioners who live at the crossroads between ancient and modern, spirit and matter, visible and invisible worlds.
SEASON 2: Many Paths, One Mountain
Different traditions, same destination. This season I'm exploring how yoga, somatic work, breathwork, energy healing, sound, creativity and more all lead to the same place: healing.
WHERE TO FIND ME
- Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Instagram, Facebook @schoolofshamanism
- www.schoolofshamanism.co.uk for workshops, trainings and one-to-one sessions
School of Shamanism
S2 E8: How to reconnect with the wonder with Lisa Murray
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
In this episode of Many Paths, One Mountain, Giada is joined by Lisa Murray, also known as The Wonder Concierge, for a conversation about wonder, curiosity and reconnecting with the beauty hidden in everyday life.
Together they explore how small moments can create profound shifts in perspective, why we often take life too seriously, and how following curiosity can become a spiritual practice. From rainbows and science to meditation, nature, creativity and the art of noticing, this episode is a reminder that wonder isn't something we find, it's something we learn to see again.
Connect with Lisa:
- Instagram: @thewonderconcierge
Connect with Giada Gaslini:
- Website: www.schoolofshamanism.co.uk
- Instagram: @schoolofshamanism
- Facebook: School of Shamanism
- Youtube: School of Shamanism
About the Host
Originally hailing from the vibrant city of Milan, I’ve spent the past two decades traversing the globe in a quest for spiritual and personal growth and combined with 25 years of international corporate work experience. From navigating the vast landscapes of Australia in a campervan to finding tranquility living in a Buddhist monastery in Nepal, my journey is nothing short of extraordinary. Along the way, I’ve delved deep into Buddhist teachings, yoga, and shamanism, becoming Shamanic Teacher, Forest Therapy Guide, Esoteric Numerologist, Shamanic and Integral Yoga Teacher and Ikigai Coach. In 2013 I settled in Edinburgh, where I founded the Art and Spirituality Centre, a social enterprise and the School of Shamanism, where I passionately help others on their own transformative journeys.
Listen and Subscribe
Apple Podcasts: Subscribe & Review
Spotify: Follow & Rate
Leave a review to help other spiritual explorers to enjoy the show
Turn on notifications for the new episodes.
________________________________________________________
CHAPTERS
00:00 Intro
00:15 Introduction of Lisa Murray, the Wonder Concierge
00:54 What is a Wonder Concierge?
03:09 Spirituality and the Importance of Fun
04:31 Focus on the Journey, Not the Outcome
07:12 Embracing Change and Flexibility in Life
08:31 Lisa's "Wonder Sessions" and "Micro Quests"
10:19 Exploring Edinburgh through "Deep Time"
13:09 Reconnecting through the Senses
16:27 Navigating Low Energy and Finding Comfort
18:28 Shifting Energy through Music and Dance
21:01 Dancing in the Rain: A Lesson in Freedom
24:00 A Practical Tool for Daily Connection
________________________________________________________
Intro
GiadaHello everyone,
Introduction of Lisa Murray, the Wonder Concierge
GiadaI'm Jada from School of Shamanism, and uh this is season two Many Paths One Mountain on my podcast and YouTube channel. And today I've got the pleasure to be here with uh Lisa Marin. Thanks so much for accepting my invitation. And the first question that I normally ask is can you introduce yourself? And when I asked Lisa, because I've known Lisa for a while, uh before she defined herself in a very beautiful and out-of-the-box way, which is uh Wonder Concierge. So, Lisa, can you let us know a little bit about this beautiful uh
What is a Wonder Concierge?
Giadadefinition of yourself?
LisaUm, well, as the Wonder Concierge, I see it that I help people through perspective and sort of the art of noticing to see a little bit more wonder, beauty, magic, and joy in themselves and in the world around them. And I think part of one of the reasons, one of the ways I do that is to make little bite-sized moments. So that can be, for example, I used to host um a discussion group called Life, the Universe and Everything, and we'd have like a theme topic. It was just so nice, like bringing everyone together and like seeing everyone share ideas and have different perspectives they didn't have before. Um, I also used to hold meditation workshops. Um, I've done a Watch Your Wonder uh workshop as well. So um I really believe in moments that in one moment you is the possibility to shift, yeah. And then that moment you can connect to sort of the stillness underneath, and there's a world of possibilities, and it makes me think of that. I can't remember what poem it is, but infinity in a moment. So I think it's always a moment, like you don't need to sort of do something overwhelming, like change your whole life. Sometimes all you need is like a little shift that you can have in a moment, and so yeah, I just I like to learn and get inspired by lots of different things across different fields from like science. Yeah, so from like the poetry of science, like I'm not a scientific at all, but like the poetry of science, like a perfect little fact, or um a line from a book, or um some sort of spiritual thing, and I like to sort of take that as an inspiration and then sort of create something around it, or share that in some way. So I'm still sort of working it out. So I've not been doing it for two, it's like the Wonder Concierge calling it that is a new thing, just because it's I like fun things, and to me, that's like sometimes with like well-being and spirituality, it's like there's that feeling of you know, that they implied like, are you broke and you need to be fixed? Um so I'm sort of coming at it like maybe like I'm doing this just I'm trying, I've seen it before we started. I'm trying not to take things too seriously just now. Yeah. So I think maybe it comes like I want it to be sort of like not first fun, but like more a lightness to it. Yeah, but also because we need to, I mean, also spirits are uh fun,
Spirituality and the Importance of Fun
Lisafunny.
GiadaNot just the fairies in general, but spirits are light. And oh yeah, it's it's us that makes these complicated, heavy serious. Uh yeah. The spirits, whatever you believe, call it universe or one god, many gods, as I always say. They always remind us uh have fun. It just comes uh well.
LisaIt's funny, I've never actually really thought about it like that. Because sometimes it's like I don't know if you did this, but sometimes I try too hard to have a spiritual moment, and it's like sort of you know, trying to like create all the circumstances, but actually the best moments are like I think um like I wish I could use this as like a skill on my CV, but like I'm such a good rainbow spotter, like better than your job description because I see so many, it's insane. Like, and I see double rainbows, and but I think that when that happens, rainbow I like just see, I think more than the average person, which also shows like what you see what you're looking for, and like once you open your perspective, um well, I think that's that feels like a moment of lightness. Anytime that I see a rainbow, it just lifts me, and it's yeah, so yeah, that's I guess that's the one way that I see from the universe. I that sort of lifts me and remembers not to take it too seriously because it's like, oh my god, it's a rainbow.
GiadaIt's like
Focus on the Journey, Not the Outcome
Giadaexactly, and uh because uh as we were saying before, we were we are all uh playing roles, uh making up, uh creating uh things uh in a universe in which they remind us from whatever's perspective uh that the the ultimate goal is emptiness or nothing. I mean it's emptiness if we vacuity in general, not even nothingness, because there is a huge concept behind that. Yeah but it's all that whatever we are leaving is pure illusion.
LisaThis is because this is another reason, actually, that why I started trying to not teach isn't the right word, but share things like that, is because sometimes like in the everyday, you're like stuck in your routine, and I want to have those like WTF moments and realize those, like what is reality?
Giada & LisaWhich I would say entirely without the certain things that okay, what does that like us? What does it learn?
LisaUm but you know, so it's like but sometimes it's hard to connect to them or really feel them. Like you can sort of think, oh, you know, we're on this, like what's gravity, and we're on this like spinning ball hurtling through space. Um, but I think like I like I love it when you get moments where you actually crystallize as and you really, really feel it. It's also like not to get too um dark, but when you actually realize we're gonna die, but then you remember the other side of that. Um so I don't know, I'm always looking for ways, but then that's a very serious thing to do to try and manufacture these like W2F life-changing moments. So sometimes it's like, how can you get that? Like maybe it's a rainbow, or it's like reading like a sort of science fact about the human body that's like, what? So I don't know. Do you find that? Like, do you yeah, just you're making me think like I actually do think take things a bit seriously, to be honest? Like, I'm looking for those human beings, yes.
GiadaYes, we have all of us, all of us, and it's exactly when we make things complicated and then they don't flow because we always want to the spirits always say it's not, I mean, uh it's all not important, the outcome or better, don't focus on the outcome, focus on the journey, focus on getting there, just uh show up without being preoccupied uh how things will go, because first of all, there is the free will. So we can decide, the others can decide, and the spirits don't know either how the things will be, because it's so interactive in uh all the people that are involved in an event in general, in a happening, that they don't know, they can't know we need to make our decision. And so when we get so worried about uh how these things could potentially go, and we consider okay, should I take uh the first pass, the second pass, the second choices in general, because
Embracing Change and Flexibility in Life
Giadathey will give uh different outcomes, and then they tell you from a business point of view, you need to be strategic. No, yeah, as I always say, have a strategy in place, but be agile, be ready to move and change your mind, and also sometimes just to do one's things to see how the world reacts and then just adjust.
LisaYeah, I think that's something I've been thinking about as well, with because I'm gonna go back into doing more Wonder Concierge stuff, is um is to just experiment. Because I think as again, the human thing of like planning too much in the future, and it's like, first of all, you don't know if this is even gonna work. You just because you want to do something, you know, like if you have a new idea and then you're like thinking like six months ahead, how does it work? Then they ask you to do a five year business plan. Oh my god, these are this we're learning. I couldn't, I couldn't. My mind was over time. You have to. But there's only now is that so it's I know. Um but yeah, I think it's um I'm trying to look more about experimenting and like just yeah, again, trying to like have more fun and freedom with it. And also, yeah, you need to put it out there and just see what happens, like in anything, like with what you like doing in life, whether it's career or just like trying a new class, or it sounds really obvious, but sometimes it's so easy not to try new things or to just I don't know, like stuck in that energy of the same
Lisa's "Wonder Sessions" and "Micro Quests"
Lisaand comfort. I'm trying to go out of my comfort zone a bit more as well. So maybe that's about paths as well. It's like I think also like you know, we change so much, like as human beings, like we're energy, we're not solid, so it's you know, everything's always floating. And then I love the fact of like you know, how every seven years we're basically a new person. Yeah, so like physically I mean we're not dozen years and it's like so you know, we've got like 98% of our atoms are different every year, and we've got like a new skeleton every three years. So if you think about it like that, it's like it's just sort of I like the feeling of like freeing it up and that I've kind of lost my train of thought, but like yeah, not being stuck, and I was that's what I was gonna say, because like you change so much. So sometimes like I'm I've definitely done this where I think I know what I want in life, but then I've not gone back and looked at it again because you change, like even in a few months. So it's like you might be on a path, but just don't get like you were saying, don't get stuck on that path and just be like not looking around or thinking I can double back or like you know, uh uh yeah, it's like on the paths there is a roundabout, you can turn around and change and take another parallel road.
GiadaYeah, which doesn't mean that you're not going towards the that destination, you're just going on a maybe on a slower road, yeah, faster one. Yeah. And then there will be another roundabout, and you can back you can be back to the big track if you want.
LisaBut it's hard. I think it's just making sure that you remember that you've you know sometimes you feel like you've gone backwards and it's like, no, no, no, you've never gone. It's a spiral. Like I think that's kind of as humans, we just think everything's kind of linear, or even just like psychologically. So it's like so it's a lot of these things I've been thinking about lately. Like I say, I feel like I've it's like this is you know how the thing like you teach what you need to know. Because like I am a quite light person, but I feel like I I need to get back into this sort of more spontaneity, like little micro quests I set myself sometimes, and like, yeah, and like
Exploring Edinburgh through "Deep Time"
Lisaexperimenting with life and not being too tunnel vision on the path.
GiadaSo yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so, what are the paths that uh you you are taking into your work in which you're supporting people because you mentioned some of them, uh those are at the moment that you think uh you are uh going deeper into according to your experience?
LisaUm so I think I took a little break from it, but now I'm back to I I think I want to do one-to-one, really kind of short one-to-one sessions, which sort of a mixture of questions, um mostly questions, like all like one-to-one, almost like uh wonder sessions, where I help people find out what brings them wonder, also sort of slyly without like try and find out like what um their wonder is one of their wonders that they can bring to the world. And then I'm still kind of working out exactly, but then also I want to finish with a microquest. So I've practiced this before, where you sort of based on what they've said, especially around Edinburgh. So it could be for like tourists, it could be for locals, um, and I get an idea of what they might like. And then together, like I've got a little wonder voucher that I created, and they just write, so it's again, I'm saying about moments, it's just so it's nothing intimidating, you have to go off and do some homework. It's just what moment would you like to experience later today? So it could be like I could help them with as and oh, you like books? Do you know there's like a picture? Or it's more just yeah. So I did the little um taste tour of this um practice with a friend, and it was really good. And like they sent photos of what they did afterwards and um had like moments in nature and stuff. Um, so that's one thing I feel because I think I really want to do face-to-face. Because I think sometimes when you like work by yourself, like there's there's the joy of being by yourself and like being in your zone and creating and stuff, but I think like I definitely want to get back to like collaborating, being out there and actually seeing it's not like a void of like, you know, just you in your room and you don't know.
GiadaNo, I mean I I do believe that your line thing is good for logistics when you can't be in person or move into different areas, but it or it's complicated for any reason. But if you live in the same city, of course it's yeah, we need to meet in person, yeah.
LisaWell, another thing I'm thinking of is actually doing like little um because I don't contribute to overtourism, so but it would be like for one or two people, like sort of turning it into a tour of Edinburgh, but like so like one thing that talking about going off little like curiosity paths, so I also volunteer in Verleaf Gallery at the Botanics, and they have an exhibition called Earth Matters, which is celebrating the 300th anniversary of James Hutton, and I've never heard of him before, but he was a geologist, a philosopher, um a farmer, a doctor, and basically through studying rock formations um and one of one places with Salisbury Crag, he sort of realized that the earth wasn't 6,000 years ago, as everyone believed in the Bible, etc., but it was actually
Reconnecting through the Senses
Lisabillions of years. So he pioneered the concept of deep time, and this just is wildly exciting to me. First of all, I'd never heard about him, it's the coolest thing I've ever heard. Pioneering deep time. Um and then I went off my little thing of like geology and learning more about him. So so that's kind of this is what I mean. Like I love learning things and how to weave them in. So I would do a little bit, I think, of the tour in Salisbury's Craig and like something about deep time or and being present. And um, so again, like just sort of work, I'm at the fun stage of like working things out. Um I just I love that something I try and do is um yeah, whatever sort of takes my attention is to just follow it for until I get bored.
Giada & LisaLike I don't I don't else realized not keeping going. I want my attention and nothing. Okay.
LisaUm yeah, so I mean look the long story short, I was a bit of a meandering path myself, but it was like I just love when you're you just follow a new thing that you've learned and like take it and then it makes you change, it changes how you see the world. Because I think that was his revelation and realization was sort of earth and time shifting. Like I just love again, that's a WTF to me. It's like a huge one. Um, like well, do you hear one? Because I'd never heard of James Hutton before, and he's like Edmund, no, and like it's amazing because it's like you know, even people that are born and bred here, they're not anyway. So it's like, yeah, I love like discovering.
GiadaAnd that's definitely would be like a tour that doesn't exist, or that could be one of the experiences on Airbnb.
LisaAnd it's just like sort of about that. I was trying to work out what it was. I think it would be a mixture of sort of like meditations, but I I like meditations, I don't see it as just like meditations are meditations or a whole world, you're like open eyes meditations. Um, so a mixture of like the art of noticing and meditations. But um, this is the fun stage. Then you have to like be like, oh anyway, you don't need to know my that's like you will let us know, you will let us know.
GiadaOf course, when you've got some details uh in uh uh in general, of course, uh we will uh we will be happy to I mean as uh art and spirituality to to to share them uh well yes absolutely and so um in uh in a question then people how could people uh um find themselves, renew themselves, uh the excitement uh of following uh the wonders of life if they think in those people that have lost hope, or uh uh is again we were speaking before, we are in a moment in which energetically it seems uh that there is uh um not lack of interest, but uh a moment in which the vibration is uh is intense, uh is low. I mean, at the moment when we are recording, it's July, it's the month of July. This uh podcast will be published in a few months. We will be out of this situation, maybe not. Uh in a moment in which people are energetically down uh and it seems that uh the things that they were doing before don't matter anymore. Uh there is uh, I wouldn't like call it apathy, but uh how could they connect back with their with the wonders of life uh from a practical point of view? What would you be your piece of advice?
LisaYeah, because I'm definitely like going
Navigating Low Energy and Finding Comfort
Lisathrough that too, so it's not like I'm like, oh, jolly all the time and everything. Um I think one thing that I've been doing, and even though this does change, is sitting down and thinking of relating to the senses, things that make me happy. So I was thinking what smells do I like? And I was like, incense. Um I actually really like the smell. I don't even drink that much, but I really like the smell of like when you go past like a smell like doom. So it's like the water. So it's like and then and then what was it? Oh, um, you know, when you can almost smell hot air, it's like hot air. Hot air. It's like I don't know, it's I don't know what technical smell it is, but I have this thing when you you know when you see heat rising and it's almost like you can I don't know, that's maybe just my thing.
GiadaLike you mean like on a on a on a pot uh or uh on a geyser or in uh social media.
LisaNo, it's just like when you like it's you walk outside and it's hot and you're sort of hit and it almost feels like it has its own smell. Like I don't know if anyone else feels like that, but I think um so I've been thinking about smells, and then I was thinking about noises, like I love um like when there's a church bell going off, and um and then I say in Portobello and then Musselborough beach nearby, there's like shells on the beach, and when this the sea waves like lap against it and makes a sound you do not like that very particular sound. Yeah, um, so I think just I've been doing that to write little miniature lists of what I like and what will instantly sort of give me a little transportation. Um, and sometimes I don't even necessarily have to go on a quest to do them, I just think reminding of little moments and sensory things. Um, and also sometimes because they have a memory attached to them, like church dollars remind me of like Italy actually. Um, so that just instantly makes me happy. Um sense reminds me of temples, which also is like a happy thing to me. Yes, yeah. So like I think because I'm not a fan of like I just like little short, easy things rather than trying to take on everything. I
Shifting Energy through Music and Dance
Lisaalso think just accepting that you feel that way, like I'm not a fan of like trying to force if you really are feeling low energy and are not feeling it, is to go through it for a little bit. And like if you have to just go and watch like Netflix or like do nothing for a while, do that, but then also remembering that everything is temporary because literally there's no past and there's no future, it is only now. So that that helps me in a way. If I'm really like low energy, like what's the point? I think everything's temporary, we're energy, so it's always like shifting and nothing is solid and stuck. Um and maybe if there's someone and these these change as well, but if there's someone like a someone that gives talks or an author that you always find comfort in, like for me, that is Carl Sagan. Um I think there's a specific specific comfort in words, whether it's being spoken or in in books, um, and maybe creating little like comforting moments as well, but I very much don't agree with like you know, plastering over. I I think sometimes you just have to be like, okay, I'm not feeling great. And also sometimes we were saying this before we started, it's like I sometimes think, oh, it's me. It's like it's just me that feels like this. And you remember that when you speak with someone and say, Oh, tell me, tell me, tell me. And also it's like we were saying it's like planetary things, it's like um uh weather energies, um, depends what you believe, obviously. But yeah, like well, full moons. So I think also remembering sometimes you're not alone and feeling like because I definitely do that. I'd sometimes say, Oh, I wouldn't tell anyone that I'm like feeling a bit rubbish today, and then you're like, but when you do, and when you actually conversation to me shifts everything.
GiadaUm, yeah, but you don't don't need to be, I mean, oh the one little woman all the time that we need to uh no, it's like yeah because there is that labeling that people have placed on you. You will always remember by some as Lisa, who whatever adjectives they want to place on you, or uh or in like myself, the the one that is the hard worker, uh uh the one that is then whatever this their uh their definition uh in general, multitasking. Uh and so um when uh when you say actually I don't feel doing anything in uh in this week, you will have some people that would be surprised what's happening, and some others that will say, Yes, well done.
LisaYeah. What about you? What do you do you have any
Dancing in the Rain: A Lesson in Freedom
Lisasort of go-to things when you're needing a little bit more like inspiration?
GiadaOr I I think uh I mean it depends if it's inspirational of uh take me out of uh of the energy in terms when I'm in low energy. It depends if I feel that it's a it's a really um deep uh intense uh moment uh or it's just something temporary. I mean, I normally try like uh with really a basic element, which is music. Oh, because music, music and dancing also, or uh going out uh in nature and jumming, doing lots of it uh raises my um my vibration, my energy straight away. Then of course, when you realize that it's just temporary because you're going through a very deep moment uh these uh momentary solutions don't don't don't help. They can just uh because then you're dragged back down, yeah. And then you just simply uh become an observer. There is nothing that you can do but just simply uh don't don't get uh Don't give up. Absolutely. I tell myself it's okay. It's temporary. I just don't give up. I show up in the way I am without forcing on trying to um to be up again because that's just not happening in the moment. So just basically the the only answer is uh is just uh keep believing in that, but don't do anything uh to go towards that direction because you don't have the energy at the moment. Yeah, so whatever decision you are making will be the wrong one because uh you don't uh you don't have don't have uh energy behind you. So just simply simply be for as long as you feel that it's over.
LisaDo you have like a does it depend on the mid?
GiadaDo you have like a particular song that you know will shift or is it all just about uh no, it can also be whatever is uh uh it can also be a commercial music, it doesn't have to be necessarily uh a music uh um in which we have monk singing. Not necessarily, it's really has to be something that I can dance, yeah, regardless of the style of um of the music, uh, but something that would really encourage my body to move.
LisaI feel the same. Sometimes I feel like I couldn't tell you one song, but sometimes I deliberately go for one where it's like like um there's a song Frontier Psychiatrist by the Avalanches, and it's like it's just it's kind of silly, and I feel like you can't I like songs where you can't really take yourself as seriously afterwards, or like a song where you're like dancing, but it's like just like not cool at all, but like I don't know what it's like.
GiadaYeah, um it can be it can be tribal dance, uh it can be waka waka, it doesn't matter, it's just whatever I I um uh I I trust uh it's uh it's coming on when I'm listening and and I just feel moving, moving my body.
LisaYeah, it's like when you it's so true when you feel the energy shifting, it's like I actually again that's something that I've got out of the habit of the last few days because I need yeah, just remembering that
A Practical Tool for Daily Connection
Lisait's like stuck and it can flow out and yeah. Um yeah, yeah.
GiadaSo this is why it's so good having conversations because it just reminds you of like yeah, I don't feel uh I don't I mean uh we can do the shaking, which is one of the techniques, but I think it works for me more in dancing. More in dancing because I just uh I just feel that I am enjoying um shaking.
LisaYeah, I used to do shaking as well, and it definitely did something, but yeah, it's a whole different energy when you're just yeah, yeah.
GiadaI feel the shaking is forced. Yeah, you know and and being sensual in that move and and allow and allow yourself uh uh mean we we necessarily mean I would love to go and dance more often out.
Giada & LisaSo maybe you should start dance, you should dance, dance in the forest thing.
LisaI would or whatever, but like I would definitely go to that because it's something that I I would it probably wouldn't feel comfortable doing by myself that there's other people.
GiadaI honestly, if you do that, yeah, I'm I'm in like yeah, because there are a lot of several groups with a static dance, uh well-established. Uh yeah, the only thing is that dancing in the forest is always the the the problem of adding back with the weather that we should uh mostly probably end up uh dancing in a studio unless we really want to embrace dancing in the rain, which is the liberating element, yeah. Despite the weather, we go there and we dance.
LisaSo, regardless, you just tell this. Yeah, I like that. Yes, because I think it's again, it's like so easy to just edit yourself. Oh, it's come it's raining, I better not do that.
GiadaAnd it's like, no, just fully go into the it's it's actually liberating dancing in the rain. Yes, I didn't uh it's just like you're embracing the water, you you feel and become water as well, become flowing.
LisaUh tear my eyes.
Giada & LisaThat's so nice. Like we've got a new a new thing to do. Just what you need, another thing. No, I don't want to organize it. If you want to organize it, that's fine, but have a tour. Oh, okay.
LisaI I might come as an attendee and enjoy it. I'll think about it, or maybe I'll just go by myself and knock here and start, yeah. Think about it.
GiadaYeah, absolutely. Yes, that's beautiful. Uh um, and so if we need to um leave uh our uh people that are listening and watching uh with something very practical uh to connect that they can do without planning, but very practical. Uh let's say you see the three or one golden uh rule. I don't like calling that rule, but really that they could start today, tomorrow morning, uh in connecting back to the to the to the wonder to the wonder world uh as a as a tool of self-healing, as a tool of going to towards the mountain, the one that you would recommend people to do straight away, without thinking too much, without planning too much, without uh answering the questions, uh what could it be?
LisaI think it's same answer as a lot of things, I think, which is just again like taking a moment, so not saying I need 10 minutes, anything like that, but taking a moment, putting your hand on your heart and just like being present for a minute and just letting yourself settle in. And to me, it's just remembering that we are stardusts and that like every tiny atom that we are made of was sort of forged in the heart of stars. And just seeing if you can like settle in feeling.