Prost! Podcast Episode #27 - Brittany Gibson - Marketing Lessons from the Finger Lakes

In this interview, Scott Eckart sits down with Brittany Gibson, Executive Director of the Seneca Lake Wine Trail, to talk about wine tourism, storytelling, and what it takes to create a winery experience that actually drives sales and loyalty. Brittany shares her personal journey from aspiring lawyer to wine industry leader, along with the lessons she learned in marketing, tourism, and regional collaboration.

What you’ll hear in this episode

• Brittany’s origin story: growing up on Seneca Lake and unexpectedly finding her way into wine
• How wine, tourism, and marketing became her lifelong career path
• Why Seneca Lake is one of the most important wine regions in the Finger Lakes
• The role of authenticity, personalization, and value in the tasting room experience
• Why the winery visit is the real driver of sales, club signups, and brand loyalty
• How wineries can improve by focusing on brand clarity instead of scripted service
• The importance of regional collaboration over competition
• Current challenges facing wine regions, including declining visitation and changing consumer behavior

Key themes

1. The winery visit matters most
Brittany explains that for East Coast and New World wine regions, the tasting room experience is where brand loyalty begins. If the visit feels memorable, educational, and personal, the rest of the business follows.

2. Storytelling beats scripting

Rather than training staff to recite a fixed script, Brittany recommends brand clarity: knowing who you are, what you stand for, and how you want guests to feel. That creates space for authentic conversations.

3. Experience is the new differentiator
In a crowded market, wine alone is not enough. Guests want connection, meaning, and a reason to choose one winery over another. The experience has to be compelling, accessible, and distinct.

4. Wine clubs are not one-size-fits-all
Brittany makes the case that wine clubs can be valuable, but only when they fit the winery’s business model, staff, product, and economics. Success depends on measurement, retention, and profitability.

5. Collaboration creates destination appeal
One winery can attract attention, but a region can become a destination. Brittany emphasizes that regional partnerships and shared marketing efforts lift everyone.

Notable quotes

• “The winery visit drives the entire business.”
• “Your staff shouldn’t have a script.”
• “Storytelling increases perceived value.”
• “One winery is an attraction, 10 wineries is a destination.”
• “If you don’t measure it, it doesn’t matter.”

Topics discussed

• Brittany’s background and career path
• The Seneca Lake Wine Trail and its mission
• Cool-climate varieties like Riesling, Cabernet Franc, Pinot Noir, and sparkling wines
• The role of wine tourism in regional economic health
• Tasting room strategy and customer experience
• Wine club economics and membership value
• Brand clarity, emotional connection, and customer loyalty
• Challenges and opportunities for Seneca Lake in 2026 and beyond

Why this conversation matters
This episode is a practical look at how wineries can thrive in a changing market. Brittany’s perspective is especially valuable because it blends marketing strategy, regional leadership, and real-world experience from the cellar door to the boardroom.

About Brittany Gibson
Brittany Gibson is the Executive Director of the Seneca Lake Wine Trail, where she leads consumer marketing, regional partnerships, and advocacy efforts to promote one of the most respected wine regions in the country.

About Seneca Lake Wine Trail
The Seneca Lake Wine Trail is a nonprofit, membership-based organization dedicated to building awareness and driving visitation to member wineries in the Finger Lakes region of New York.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:06

Hey what's up y'all? This is your host, Data of the Pro's Podcast. We focus on wine and bearing spirits and later music and avatures of business on the Midwest.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

Alright, this week on the Pro's Podcast. I've got Brittany Gibson from the Seneca Lake Wine show at the Finger Lakes New York. She's a marketing expert. We caught up with her after him and met her at the Eastern Winery Exposition of the Marketing Symposium. And uh it was a really good interview. I really enjoyed it. I hope you enjoyed. Peace.

SPEAKER_03 0:44

All right. And we are live. Uh this morning. I have the great honor of having uh Miss Brittany Gibson from the Seneca Lake Wine Trail. How are you doing this morning, Brittany?

SPEAKER_00 0:55

I'm great, Scott. How are you? Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_03 0:58

I'm I'm doing good. I've I've been looking forward to this. Um, this is the first time we've met. Um you you uh were at uh you were one of the speakers at the recent um Eastern Winery Exposition, which is kind of the the the big dog event for anybody east of the Rockies in terms of um wineries and whatnot. It was in uh Richmond, Virginia this year, and um uh my better half um Emma and partner uh as far as uh the winery here, along with um Sarah Fields, saw you there, and they were really um touched and impressed by your speech. So they were like, you gotta you gotta reach out to Brittany when when you're uh looking for um podcast interviews. So um yeah, it's great to have you. I know you're probably busy uh this time of the year. Things, you know, buds are popping and and uh the the the tourism um business is is coming back into uh to life. Um so thank you again for being here.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Just appreciate the opportunity. Any chance I get to talk about wine, wine tourism, wine marketing, Scott, I jump at it. So very happy to be here.

SPEAKER_03 1:59

Awesome. Awesome. Well, again, it's an honor. Um so yeah, why don't you um uh kind of tell us uh a little bit about who you are and and what what you're doing and and your position, and then maybe give us a a high-level overview of Seneca Lake, which is uh for those that don't know in the Finger Lakes of New York, and and while there are several lakes there, um some of the the best wineries uh in New York and East in the United States are are right there in your in your little backyard.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

That's true, and I am a very proud native of Seneca Lake. Uh I actually grew up in a tiny town on the west side of Seneca Lake called Dundee. Um, and so I'm a local kid born and raised uh and attended Ithaca College and uh came out of there with degrees in business and legal studies, and in business I concentrated in marketing. Uh and so uh really cut my teeth in the wine industry and worked for 10 years at a winery managing events and a wine club and doing marketing and advertising. I was on the road doing sales a lot. So that really gave me a lot of very foundational level experience in terms of how do you sell wine, not just to a consumer, but to liquor stores and wine shops and restaurants. Um, you know, I was going to festivals and things like that and selling wine in that venue, but also planning very high-end experiences at the winery that I was at and, you know, putting together fun events and how do you launch a new wine club and make that successful? And, you know, there's lots of missteps along the way that if I hadn't cut my teeth in those first 10 years doing that, I just wouldn't be as successful as I am today. And I don't know whether I'm a success or not, but I think I certainly learned a lot along the way that is very practical. Um, so I did that for 10 years and then went to a local chamber of commerce where I was the tourism and marketing manager, um, managing a tourism marketing program and budget. And I did that for four years. And then in 2018, I came over and um accepted the position as the executive director here at the wine trail. So essentially been in wine and tourism my whole career.

SPEAKER_03 4:04

Okay. And um it sounds like you knew early on that you were gonna be in this business uh in some form or fashion. Uh is it something that you was part of your family or just the fact that you grew up in in Seneca, you were surrounded by it? How uh how did you get turned on to um the allure of of wineries and vineyards?

SPEAKER_00 4:24

Funny enough, this was not my original plan, actually. Um I was on the path to law school. Um, I was actually studying for my LSATs, I was working as a paralegal, um, finishing up college, and uh was just working at the winery kind of part-time um to blow off steam, honestly. Um the firm that I worked at as a paralegal was a multi-practice firm. So we did mundane stuff like workers comp. And then we saw really terrible things as uh one of our attorneys was a law guardian. And um, so I just got involved at the tasting room just sort of as a fun part-time thing because they needed help. And I was like, I'm only 22 years old, like I'm not really doing much else. Let's sure, this looks like fun, and I've always just been a really hard worker. I love to talk to people. I did not grow up in a wine household. My parents didn't drink hardly at all, actually. Not not for any reason, it's not like they were sober necessarily, but they just it was just never part of our lifestyle. Um, and so it wasn't until I really got cranking in the taste room that I was like, I really kind of like this. I like the wine, I like talking to people, I like the culture around it, I like going out in the vineyards. I I just really soaked it up. Um and it just worked out. I mean, unfortunately, I guess I um developed some really serious health problems and had to really re-evaluate where I was going in my life in terms of am I going to be able to sustain law school and a and a law practice and all those kinds of things? And I made a really difficult decision. I mean, I wanted to be attorney from the time I was old enough to know what an attorney was, Scott. Um, and so I decided, you know, let's put law school on hold. Let me kind of get my bearings, adjust to my new health tru struggles and challenges. And um yeah, it took a little time, but I discovered like I don't know, I really kind of like this wine thing. And it just worked out. They had a marketing position open up and they said, We really like what you're doing. We respect your work ethic. Do you want to give this a try? And I thought, well, geez, I've got the I've got the education. Sure, let's figure it out. And so they really were amazing to me. Um, I'm not too shy to say it was Fulkerson Winery. Um, they provided me with immediate health insurance. Um, they took no issue with all the health problems I had. I mean, truly, I would not be who I am and where I am today without Sarah and Nancy Fulkerson and specifically Kendra Kissle, who was the GM there, John Izzard, who was a very dear friend and a colleague there. Um, you know, to me, that was not just about the technical skills and the things that I learned. It was the that was my introduction to the wine community and the fact that that's really what this industry is about. It's people taking care of each other. And um, it just opened a whole new world for me. So, no, this was not my plan, but it became it was the most beautiful unfolding uh that could have possibly happened from that. So I I'm actually super, super thankful.

SPEAKER_03 7:25

Yeah. Well, I love that. Um, that's something that uh has been uh in some ways an unintended consequence. Um, you know, Emma I uh I don't know how much you know of our story, but you know, at some point anybody that that gets into this business uh, you know, has uh usually uh an interesting kind of origin story of of what it is that that drew them to this. Um and ours was was being in the military and stationed overseas and spending time in the Italian countryside. Yeah, you kind of like, hey, I kind of like this. You know, this is this is uh it's it's easy to get get uh uh attracted to that pace of lifestyle. So when we discovered the cold, hardy grapes that could go well on on our ancestral farm, um, you know, it wasn't it was just kind of okay, you know, go time, we're gonna make this happen when when we are done with our service. Um and you know, it was it was really it's it's been uh quite an adventure. Hopefully it's it's not anywhere near its completion yet. But, you know, the thing that has been really uh interesting and and just um really fascinating is is you know, I think the hardest part in a lot of respect is pushing that I believe button and just accepting that while you don't have all the answers, you don't know who's gonna come into the fold in terms of your the relationships that you have. Um we've built uh a family of Amish that help us in the vineyard and a family of of employees that um I mean uh we cared greatly for and we couldn't do without. And um being um, you know, I'm getting a little sentimental, but uh being um able to uh help these people on their journey and and uh as they help us and and um having fun with them and um that's great.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

I and and you know we're definitely what anybody says, that is not the norm in any other industry. Not that I've ever seen.

SPEAKER_03 9:15

Yeah, I mean we like to we like to you know say, you know, uh, you know, uh the people that we worked with in the military and in some way were brothers and sisters and family. But there's a warmth that comes with with this service industry, and and I don't know if it's partly because of the romanticism of being so reliant on Mother Nature and and Mother Earth and all of those things, it's kind of in the background whether you want to um uh pay homage to it or not. Um I we certainly we certainly do. Um but I I think um yeah, especially at a big winery like Fulkerson, um that that interpersonal touch is massive. And you do see that with with a lot of the great the the the the the businesses that um last, you know, and and um so that that's been a really neat thing. So when you say that, I'm like, that's that's so that's so cool. Um the one question that I did ha have is um, you know, you have become a marketing powerhouse. Um was was there ever a time where you thought that you want to get into the seller or get into the vineyard? Um, or was there a piece of you that's like, I I I have this um desire to take this product and and and um sell it, you know, get people's attention and show people how you know freaking cool this the the the the the Fulkersons are or or um you know the you know the different wineries. What what is it that took you? Was it the fact that that job opened up before a seller master job or um I really no, I like the I like being in the space that I am in.

SPEAKER_00 10:49

Um I'm a people person, I clearly love to talk, um, but I really enjoy the storytelling piece and sharing the just natural enthusiasm and passion I have for the industry and specifically the finger lakes in Seneca Lake. I love taking that and turning it into something that's beneficial to the larger community of people that I serve, i.e., my member wineries. So no, I really I do make wine at home um because that's a big part of what they do at Folkerson's. I kind of got bit by the home winemaking bug there. I haven't done it in a few years because I have three kids, I'm a little busy. Um but yeah, I I don't know, if I did anything, it would be a vineyard, I think.

SPEAKER_03 11:28

Um so you definitely gradu uh uh gravitated towards um to the marketing side of it. And the storytelling. Yeah, and and again, that's that's absolutely critical. I mean, um as they say, you know, um you go through all of the stuff, you know, planting the grapes, waiting for the grapes to mature, harvesting the grapes, fermenting the grapes, bottling. The hardest part is still to come, which is the selling. Um and that is is just one of those things that um is like, yeah, you better come to grips with that when you decide that you want to, you know, get into this business. Um selling wine, uh, there's money doesn't grow on trees. Uh you have to battle for and and these are all things that that um you know are pretty pretty common knowledge, but uh but yeah, you know, competing um for for that uh sell in the market, uh in the in the supermarket is extremely, extremely difficult. Um so anyways, we'll we'll move into the the whole aspect of that experiential thing that you're that you know I was such a big part of that talk. Um But uh before we go there, um Seneca Lake, I mean, it's it's amazing. I am ashamed to say I've never been there for being somebody that is such a huge Riesling geek. Um I've got to fix that. Yeah, I I can't wait to come. I mean, um and and and I say that like it's just one of those things that like the time it just the opportunity hasn't opened up itself. Um we're closer to Michigan, so we we've we've spent quite a bit of time in Michigan. I'm with the airlines, so I I've been to Rochester and and Syracuse quite a few times. And upstate, um, I'm a big you know, we grow hybrids here. It's too cold to really reliably re rely on um and American varieties. I know katawba is um uh is is quite popular, regged cat. I've I definitely came across that story. Um but uh we call it pink kataaba, pink cats here. But um but uh but yeah, I mean I so I'll get I'll let you talk about give us the the Seneca rundown um and then I'll tell you some of the things that I know about Seneca and and how uh impressed I am with it.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

Sure. Uh so the Seneca Lake uh wine trail is uh 501c6, so it's a nonprofit membership-based organization. Uh, and our mission is solely focused on building awareness and marketing our member wineries to drive visitation to them. I do a lot of other things too that are sort of um adjacent to that. I do a lot of advocacy and lobbying. I'm really involved in our state-level lobbying organization, which is the New York Wine Policy Institute. I'm very involved at the national level with Wine America and their State and Regional Association Advisory Council, uh, very involved with the New York Wine and Grape Foundation. So we do a lot of uh regional, statewide, and national level partnerships, but we generally our mission, we stay laser focused on consumer marketing. Um so that's the organization in a nutshell. Um Seneca Lake, as you mentioned earlier, Scott, is the most heavily populated of all the Finger Lakes with wineries. Uh and there's a lot of reasons for that. Um but we are really proud to be one of the most active uh and largest wine trails in the country, actually. Um and I I take it as a tremendous honor to be able to lead the charge here every day. I'm excited to come to work every day.

SPEAKER_03 14:48

Yeah. That's awesome. And um there's a few good wineries there as well.

SPEAKER_00 14:53

Quite a few. Yeah, I kind of enjoy them.

SPEAKER_03 14:55

Yeah. Who are some of the uh I I mean, I know it's it's hard for you to to list, but I mean they're they're they're I would say um iconic wineries.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

Yeah, I mean, I would say you've got Fox Run Vineyards, uh Lakewood Vineyards, Hasley 1852 Vineyards, uh, you know, all very, very well known, very high-scoring wines. Um, and then there's sleepers too, though. You know, I call them sleepers, although you know, you've got winemakers like Nathan Kendall at Hickory Hollow. Nathan is one of the top young winemakers in the country. He's not that young, just to be clear, because we're the same age. He's actually two years older than me if we're counting. Uh, but he's a very dear friend, uh, and he's actually our trail secretary right now. Um, but yeah, as I mentioned, Fox Run, Anthony Road, Lakewood Vineyards. Um, they're not members of ours per se, but uh Herman Weimer is here on this lake as well, obviously uh one of the pioneers of Seneca Lake wine. Um and we would be remiss if we did not mention the impact that they've had on the industry. Um and other just, I mean, there's just so many stellar producers. It really depends upon what it is you're looking for.

SPEAKER_03 15:55

Yeah. And um, you know, obviously a big part of the story of Finger Lakes is that lake effect really helps uh uh moderate the temperature and and help uh, you know, it's it's it's challenging. We're not in a Mediterranean climate where it it it uh only rains in the spring and then um you know it's it's doesn't rain the rest of the year. There's there's definitely climatic challenges. Um the fingerlakes uh help help mitigate some of that. Um but it's part of you know, I think it would be considered cooler climate. Um so it's definitely cool climate.

SPEAKER_00 16:27

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 16:28

Yeah, you're not you're not growing uh big balmy, you know, Cabernets and Fandel.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

Um, and that's okay with us because we prefer zippy and racy, food-friendly Riesling and Chardonnay and beautiful Cabernet Franc and incredibly expressive Pinot Noir, um, and of course any host of other things, but those are sort of the big ones for us, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:47

Yes, yeah. I mean, I think um certainly Riesling is has been one of the grapes that Fingerlakes uh has been uh renowned for. But uh but yeah, some of those other uh rights. So what are some of those other wines that uh you mentioned Cab Franc is a red and and and Pinot Noir, that makes sense. Um, Gris, uh any sh I know Chardonnay. It seems like there's some people that do some Chardonnay there. Uh, quite a bit of really great Chardonnay.

SPEAKER_00 17:11

Bubbles, we're really famous for our bubbles, uh, because you get that wonderful natural acidity from those cool nights. And um yeah, it's we make beautiful, beautiful sparkling wines here. Like to me, that's like one of the more unknown things. But yes, Cab Franc is really having a moment. Uh Lemberger Blafrankish, also, you know, people love that. Saparavi is having a moment here, Grunerveld Liener is another one. Um, and of course, any host of anything else, right? I mean, uh Concorde is kind of experiencing an interesting resurgence. There's a few wineries that are doing drier Concords. Um that's interesting. There's wineries that are working with some really cool hybrids that they've been doing it for quite some time, but not, you know, now they're sort of um exploring it a little bit more, I would say.

SPEAKER_03 17:56

Yeah, I mean, um it does seem like with some of the demographic shift as you know, the the boomers get a little bit older, the the new generation is coming in, a little less tied to provenance and more willing to um experiment. So I mean, I was talking to somebody who was mentioning that in some ways uh there were a host of new American varieties that had very, very um uh uh bright and and and uh powerful colors of all things. And um and in some ways that uh you know it's kind of like Gatorade flavor, you know, they're just bright and and uh and um you know the younger consumer, I think an older, more traditional European, you know, palette would be like, you know, no way I'm gonna touch that. Um but that is not the case with uh with younger consumers that are willing to try anything and and go more for the taste and and the vibe. So there definitely are uh things changing uh in the industry, um for better or for worse.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

And I think it's something that um, you know, new w new world wine regions need to be more aware of, right? Um that we arguably, you, are better positioned to adapt to the change in consumer behavior and demographics than than arguably anyone else. Um because as you said, we're not tied to this many hundreds of years of culture and wine, and it can only be talked about a certain way, and you can only grow these certain varieties You know, there's obviously beauty to that reputation, and there's a tremendous value in that legacy, but it can be limiting to an extent as a marketer, right? So new world wine regions have got this tremendous opportunity to sort of write their own future, and you can say, Yes, we make beautiful Riesling, yes, we make amazing Cabernet Franc, but have you tried this sparkling katawa? You know, it's just like wow, and it's incredible. And when you start talking about the story of Kataaba and what it did, you know, what it was for the region and the fact that some of the earliest sparkling wines in the region were katawba based, right? So there's just so much, so many directions we can go with it. And as you rightly pointed out, we're not restricted by that provenance, you know.

SPEAKER_03 20:07

Yeah, yeah. And again, for better or for worse. Um and it can be a little bit of a a fine line, but it does seem like um uh it does seem like in this day and age, uh it it pays to to to think outside the box a little bit as uh you know generational shifts are happening. Um, and and uh it is quite quite interesting to to kind of think about as as kind of those um age-old tropes, um, you know, maybe go by the wayside. Definitely um Finger Lakes uh you know, uh not emergent, it's it's established. Um, you know, it's it's you know, it's younger obviously than the wineries in the West Coast. So in in a sense, bringing those hybrids in, um a lot of that uh story is still being written. And and uh that's something that I firmly believe. Um, you know, uh and and you're right, it does, it does give um give us a little bit of an advantage to uh just try try some different things and and kind of see see what happens. Climate is also changing, which is um not just affecting us and in some ways probably making um you know some of those European varieties uh more readily um accessible and and and possible even in the finger lakes, um while it drives, you know, uh cab and and some other places in warmer regions, make you know, there's a lot of talk that um less input, you know, hybrids are not necessarily the way of the future, but viable, you know, uh way um viable options for places where it's just getting a little bit too warm. So I do sense that, you know, um uh some of the stigma is is kind of dying out, and and that uh has to be looked at as opportunity. Um I did want to say um, you know, and and give homage to um uh one of my favorite wineries there. Despite having not been there, I have ordered wines and um was a great help to me was uh Chris Stamp and uh Lakewood. Yeah. So many years ago when we were um first kind of doing our homework, uh deciding what to do, he came here to Indiana and um he's been pretty active, you know, and and you know, I've I've got many articles for from him. Um from everything on you know the financial uh truisms of starting a winery to some great stories uh or or articles he wrote about technical winemaking things. But he he came here to Indiana and spoke at the Hort conference, and I I was able to grab him and and um spent some time and he's been gracious enough to answer more than a couple emails I've sent him.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

Um so I I do count him as a mentor, but uh but yeah, he's Chris is incredible and the Stamp family in general have given so much to the Finger Lakes and specifically the Seneca Lake wine industry. Chris's mom, Bev, was instrumental in developing the Seneca Lake as a nested AVA within the Finger Lakes AVA, and very few people know that. Um, but she was absolutely instrumental, and anyone that's ever formed an AVA and had it federally recognized knows what a long road that is. Um additionally, Chris's wife, Liz, is instrumental in the Seneca Lake Wine Trail. In the last eight years of my tenure, she has served as president twice, sorry, three times. Um, and she is the special events committee chair. She donates so much time as a volunteer, not just to my organization, but to many others. Um they're just tremendous, tremendous people. And uh I couldn't say enough about them. That people like that is what motivates me to come to work every day.

SPEAKER_03 23:39

Yeah, and and again, I was uh just a startup, you know, somebody, and and I'm I'm sure there's a lot of people that talk. So he had no reason to give me any any the time of day, but uh every time I've reached out, uh it it's it's been a prompt um and uh I would say you know, well thought out response. Um but there's certain several things that he's said to me um that have stuck with me to this day and they're they're always kind of at the forefront of my Rolodex. Um one of the the key things that I think he's uh prone to say is um the best place to age wine is is in your bank account. And I've never found that to be not true. I mean he's um and then um uh another thing that I'll never forget, I I remember sit like I don't remember a whole bunch of things, but I remember being in that conference, the Indiana Hort Conference, and and uh almost like being reprimanded because I was kept asking him questions while there were other things going on, I was being that disruptive student. Um but it was something to the effect of like, well, do you think these grapes would work? And he just looked at me and he said, Scott, if you grow the right grape in the right place, regardless of whether it's a vanif or or hybrid, and you you grow it well and you you treat it well and you get it into the cellar and you treat it like a Burgundian would treat his or her Pinot Noir, you're gonna make good wine. It doesn't matter what the grape and and um I just like that gave me um it I wouldn't say confidence, but it was like here, I I'm gonna do this. Yeah, like it's like it's not like you're gonna you're just gonna make something that is poison or or is it gonna make you spit it out. I mean it's like it was like I can tell you from experience that these grapes can make great wine. It's not the substrate. And I found that to be true now because the wines we're producing with grapes that people don't don't know or or um uh or have never heard of, uh they're esoteric French hybrids. We really um enjoy finding little diamonds in the rough by going to different conferences and say, let's try that out. Um you know, when we you know inevitably pour them for Somaliers or people that know wine, but we don't tell them what it is because they have to taste it blind because that's the only way we'll get the fair shake. Um they are they are always delighted and in some cases blown away. And when we put it up next to a nice gomeno or or something from from Burgundy or Italy, um, you know, we we frequently um uh surprise people. And uh and again, it's because uh Chris was wise enough, or you know, is like yeah, it that's what will happen if you practice, you know, as they say, uh sanitation, refrigeration, and have a forklift, which is a proxy for the right tool for the job. You're gonna make good wine. And so I love his yeah, he's he's he's he's just always been so so practical about it. So I I I I feel um quite indebted to him. Um and certainly anybody that makes wine, I think at a high level is familiar with um uh Peter Bell and and Foxtron. I mean, he's he's Peter's exceptional, yeah. Yeah, I mean, and and so between him and and Chris and and I'm sure a whole bunch of great winemakers there, um, yeah, it's it's it's it's I mean, it's made New York uh and the Finger Lakes, and more specifically Seneca Lake um world-renowned. And so um, yeah, yet yet another reason I'm so thankful to talk to you today. Um so we so for anybody that's listening, I mean, the Seneca Lake and the Finger Lakes is a world-class wine region. Um you're not missing anything by going there over a Burgundy or an app or anywhere else. It's it's as good as it gets. Um so let's talk about the conference and your your your walk onto the stage and your mic dropped, you know, right off the get-go, where you said making good wine is is no longer good enough. That was your opening to that um speech. And the point, the the point is that um if you think, if you ever thought that you that you were gonna um be lucky enough to do all the things right, plant the right variety in the right in the right location, have the right vintage, um, pick it at the right time. The most important variable in making good wine is is is picking it, is the picking decision. Everything from there is at its highest level. It can never be made better than getting that that decision right. You bring the fruit in, you get a good clean fermentation, you throw the wine in an expensive barrel or take care of it. All of that said, you still um aren't as we said already, uh selling the wine is the is the the most difficult part. Um it's not enough to to make good wine. You have to go beyond. What did you mean by that?

SPEAKER_00 28:26

I meant that the winery visit drives the entire business. The entire business, especially for uh East Coast wineries, New World wineries, anybody that falls in that, anything other than those legacy regions, you are very dependent on cellar door visits. So the experience you deliver has got to be exceptional. And honestly, when you look at the math, 79% of visits convert to sales. 14% of visitors convert to wine club memberships, 88% of club members have joined after they visited a winery at some point or another, right? So when you're looking at that, the winery visit is where brand loyalty is born. If you get the experience right, the rest of the business follows. That that's what I meant.

SPEAKER_02 29:11

All right. Great.

SPEAKER_03 29:12

How do we do that?

SPEAKER_00 29:14

Uh authenticity, personalization, value, education, and make it accessible. Those would those would be the key things that I would encourage wineries to do. That's what we talked about in my speech. The authenticity means don't your staff shouldn't have a script where every single person who walks through the door gets the same robot script of we were founded in blah blah blah bah by these people who did this. I mean, everybody's got that wonky, you know, sleepy script. No one wants to hear that. They want to hear what connects you to the wine. What's your favorite wine? Why do you work here versus one of the other 30 wineries that's on Seneca Lake, right? Um personalization, people want to feel special. And frankly, that's not new. It's just we're seeing it reinvigorated and reinforced more than ever. They don't want to come in and belly up to a bar and choose five wines from a tasting sheet and have a very nondescript experience. They want something that they can feel engaged with, that maybe elicits emotion, that maybe they learn something from, and that they can share. They want to take beautiful photos and put them up on social media. And that's not just young people, by the way. The average Facebook user these days, the vast majority of them are 45 plus. And those folks are active too. So, you know, for many, many years, I think lots of businesses kind of poo-pooed social media and said, Oh, does it really care? Does it really matter? I don't know, but it's free marketing. Why would you not take it? Right?

SPEAKER_03 30:40

Yeah. Yeah. Um so a couple, couple things. I'm I'm taking notes here. Um uh we're we're big fans of uh Story Brand, which is um uh I think it it's probably a a little bit of a commercial approach to marketing. It gets a lot deeper, but it's it is quite persuasive. Um the the key uh kind of um attribute or uh message is that um the the the customer is the the hero of the story, if you will. And so you have to frame everything. And you you mentioned that they want to feel special. In fact, I saw something the other day that said if you want to know, you know, the secret to to great relationships is every time you look at somebody, pretend that they have a sign on their chest that says, make me feel special. And if you um approach and and it it seems simple and maybe even a little bit cheesy, but the reality is um that is you know how we as humans go through life. Um another great thing that I've been musing over is uh a Maya Angelo quote that said, you know, in ten years people won't remember what you said. They're gonna remember what you how you made them feel. And it's this feeling thing. Talk is cheap. You've heard all the cliches and the tropes, but um the the the the the the you know the perennial wisdom is that people want to feel something. Um I would uh maybe going a little bit off on a tangent, uh venture to say that in a in a uh in a social space, uh to this, you know, in this day and age with so much social media and so much phones and so much disconnection, that maybe that is the spark that is bringing people, making um this yearning for connection so much more critical, but also so much more valuable for the businesses and and and uh organizations that intuit that and and and focus on it.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

Absolutely. That human connection is really important. And the other thing we spoke about at the conference was the idea of interaction over transaction, right? We discussed the fact that consumers are very, very smart and very savvy. And I think one of the examples I used was, right, there used to be, you know, like madmen era where you would have uh like a cigarette advertisement and it was like your doctor says to have a cigarette and calm down, you know, like and consumers at the time ate that up, right? It was a different time, it was a different place. That's not a knock, it's an observation. But if we if someone did that today, consumers would would laugh in their face. So consumers don't want to be marketed to. They know when they're being marketed to, they know when you're trying to run game on them, basically. Great point, great point storytelling increases perceived value because the consumer doesn't feel like you're selling them something. And really, you're doing a lot of things when you're telling a story, right? You're educating them, you're entertaining them, and frankly, you're giving them a connection point to access your brand. And that's what you want. Because if people feel a connection to you and they've accessed your story and they buy into it and believe it, I don't say those things in a derogatory way, by the way. Too many times I think in our language these days, people hear buy-in or they believe in it and they go, Oh, you sold them on it, like you're doing something nefarious. And it's not, it's about connection. So when you can get walk them through that uh in a way that doesn't feel put on, the connection is there. And now they feel like they're part of your club, they're part of your story, and they're no longer being sold to, they're being brought onto the team, essentially. That personal interaction though drives purchase behavior. There's tons of research that tells us that.

SPEAKER_03 34:17

Yeah, yeah, that's a that's a great point. I mean, um, it's sometimes easy to to think that maybe, you know, the customer is generic or, you know, just like a unit or something. But the truth of the matter is, you know, they're they're obviously conscious and and quite smart, uh, almost unconsciously aware of of of you know the fakeness of the situation. So once again, you're not gonna you're not gonna fool them. All you can do is is is be authentic and be who you you say you are, um, and then let kind of the chips fall where they may. Um so that that's a that's a great point. Um I did want to circle back because you kind of mentioned um you know conversion to wine club. Um we we took a seminar, it was it was Napa based, Craig Root was the was the guy that's given this seminar a million times on tasting rooms. The uh, you know, just kind of for people that hadn't been I I never had worked in one I uh interned at a winery, but was more on the technical side um of of actually making the wine. Um so so anyways, he he was a big proponent of wine club and and um you know talking um and this is you know kind of a little bit generic, but I mean, you know, you're you have projections on how much sales you want. Um wow, okay, that translates to a certain amount of people that are coming through your door. Boy, if you had, you know, a third of your sales wine club, then you can guarantee these sales without having you know all have having to account for all of the people coming in. So we became a proponent of of wine clubs early on. Um, you know, uh we're still tinkering and and figuring out, you know, what it is. Um but we've definitely, because it's been a focus of ours, I think grown that quicker than maybe some of our uh uh competitor wineries or or whatever, not competitors, but other small businesses that are uh comparable to us. And again, I'm not sure uh 100% whether we're maximizing uh the return from a financial standpoint, but what we've seen and what we can intuit and feel very strongly is that these are our fans. These are our this is this is this is our tribe. Um and you know, while it is a direct kind of metric of of of how you're doing and and and whether the service you're providing is of value to people, especially with the economic crunch that that seems to be happening right now at a certain extent. Um uh I guess that's a long-winded way of saying um how valuable is the wine club and and and in what ways do you uh when you're dealing with the wineries on Seneca Lake, I mean, when that discussion comes up, I mean, how how much value do they put in in the wine club?

SPEAKER_00 37:05

It depends upon the winery, honestly. And I think that is a good thing. Look, wine clubs are not a good fit for every winery. They're not a good fit for every brand um and every structure, frankly. I think wine clubs um for the last, I don't know, 10 years or so, there's just been this really heavy push, and it was sort of like from the wine club software side of things, and it's not to knock anybody, it's just an observation, but to say that you know if you don't have a wine club, you're asleep at the wheel. Well, I don't know that that's necessarily true. I think each winery needs to decide A, do we have the right product for a wine club? B, do we have the right staff, the right setup, and the right things that it requires to have amenities for said wine club, right? It's pickup parties, it's shipping, it's inventory, it's all these things, right? And then you have to make sure that you can execute on whatever promise you make to them, right? Because wine clubs too. It used to be if you could ship wine and you had an online portal, you can have a wine club. It's not enough these days. Like just shipping the wine every quarter is not enough. These folks want something special. They want something above and beyond. Uh, they want pickup parties and they want special releases, and they, you know, and I'm not saying that's wrong. I just think the winery itself has to run the numbers and it has to make economic sense because that's one of the conversations we've had with a lot of my member wineries, is they will tell me, geez, Britney, I don't have a wine club, but I'm telling you, I've run the numbers and it doesn't make sense. And I tell them, fine, good for you for running it like a business, though. So you know, and it could be a wine shipping club. That's fine. It could be a loyalty club. I have a number of winers who have loyalty clubs, and that performs way better for them than a shipping club. It really just depends on your on your model.

SPEAKER_03 38:55

Okay. That's that's interesting to say. I mean, I guess I I loaded that question up like uh expecting you to be like, oh yeah, wine club is uh it's just hard, right?

SPEAKER_00 39:03

Because you're being told by all these industry experts that like if you don't have a wine club, you're leaving all this money on the table. Well, not necessarily because you do I mean, there is like a delicate balance too, right? Like you have to grow the club to a certain size to really make money on it. Because with the cost of shipping wine between the over 21 signature and the bonding and permits and insurance, and uh the shipping materials and the staff time it takes to put it all together, it is extremely expensive. Every package that goes out.

SPEAKER_02 39:36

So Yeah, wine is not it's it's heavy. It's yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:39

So you have to there is a critical mass of members you have to have in order to make it make economic sense. So yeah, I'm definitely not a I think wine clubs are great, but I'm not a Kool-Aid drinker when it comes to the wine clubs. I think it needs to be a case-by-case, brand by brand, business by business decision.

SPEAKER_02 39:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 39:59

Yeah, I mean, um again, us being a very small operation, um, a big part of what we uh really like to do. First, we don't ship the wine, they gotta come pick it up. So that negates a big part of that. Yeah. I mean, and again, you're we're we're talking um, you know, 200 and 250 uh so I mean again compared to a 40,000 case winery, we're we're it's it's it's a different logistical um uh set of circumstances. But um again, we use it as an opportunity. We have three releases a year to um to host uh essentially a a pickup party for for our uh for our you know our tribe is the way we like to refer to them. I mean, people that and um we always delight, I mean at the very least we release a new wine, um, but uh we really enjoy coming up with uh cool and unique ways to uh to celebrate with them um from hay rides in the vineyard to that's awesome. Obviously food trucks and and uh um uh you know music and things like that. I mean all all of the stuff. So um but yeah, that that's that's a good point. Um again, uh as I said, we we're pretty generous. Uh you know, they're allowed to to to get up to a uh comped tasting per month. Um that adds up pretty quick, you know. So um not everybody takes that full advantage, but uh but I think we're pretty generous. Um is it um long-term sustainable? I think the bigger challenge would be, you know, when you get to a thousand or or or more uh folks, that's it's it's a lot of work. It's a lot of work.

SPEAKER_00 41:32

Well, and that's why that's where measurement comes in, right? And one of the things that my member wineries, if if they listen to this, will roll their eyes and go, oh, here she goes on the measurement. Because I'm famous for saying if you don't measure it, it doesn't matter, right? It's one thing to look at the wine club broadly and say, oh, we have 400 members and we do these four releases a year and this, that, and the other thing. But are you at are wineries actually tracking the value of each wine club member? In other words, the lifetime value of that customer to your business. And what do you have to spend as a business to convert that just average tasting visitor to a club member? What are you expending in the process? And then deduct that from whatever they're buying from you, right? Because the idea, hopefully, behind a club is that they don't just take their club allotments, that they buy more wine than an average visitor, right? Yeah. You got to look at things like your churn rate and your attrition rate. And, you know, it it's like I said, it's it's fine to have an idea, right, from a from a business consultant who says, Oh, if you don't have a wine club, you're dead in the water. But there's really a lot more to it than, you know, I do that's why I say I just don't think it's as easy to say, well, yep, sure, everybody should have a wine club.

SPEAKER_03 42:43

I agree. Yeah. No, I I mean I can tell without even delving in, there there's there's a lot more to it. Um but I mean, we're we're we're cooking along. Um, you know, I I definitely, you know, have uh agreed and and um am on board with with because and what it was uh refreshing to hear from Emma and and Sarah who were at the conference is they came back um I think boistered by the fact that while we're not marketing experts, uh well Sarah may be, but but Emma and I we've we've gone a lot on field by what the experience, you know, and and and certainly authenticism. I mean, we're somewhat unique in Indiana um in that we uh really focus only on the you know our estate grapes. Um and uh if we can't uh grow it here, then we're picking um you know fruit from other vineyards here in Indiana. So that seems like well, that's the way all wineries are. The reality is that actually in in this state, if there's a hundred wineries, most of them don't have a vineyard. They're they're they're sourcing stuff. So we really obviously hearken on on that. Uh, you know, we're trying to make wine the old fashioned way, you know. Growing it up.

SPEAKER_00 43:52

But you're making real Indiana wine.

SPEAKER_03 43:54

That's what you know, and and so uh in some ways we're like, well, that's that's good. That's Authentic and and you know all we're doing is doing it like everybody in the old world does it. So uh we've got that going for us. Um it is sometimes frustrating when you know that other wineries who are not going to that length and trouble, don't even have a press, are also trying to push that button. But you know, they're gonna have an issue uh with authenticity. And again, I believe that the customers are they they're not and credibility becomes a problem, right?

SPEAKER_00 44:27

You know that when you go out and talk about the fact, Scott, that you have 100% Indiana wines, that's true. That's true, and it comes out whether you know it or not, the consumer knows. They also know.

SPEAKER_03 44:40

I think so.

SPEAKER_00 44:41

Um, but you sort of said, like, what are the high-level things, right? That um that we that wineries should be doing. Um and we kind of got to a point in my talk where, because I know as a as a conference attendee, I always hate getting to a presentation that I'm really excited about, and they sort of just like vomit all this stuff at you, and then you go, okay, well, what now? So I literally had a slide where I said, okay, Brittany, what do I do now? And so, you know, one of the key strategic pillars I recommended, I think I recommended, I don't know, five or six of them, um, was to say if nearly 80% of visits convert to sales, it's not how do we sell more wine, it's how do we create a better visit. So the strategic pillar number one I talked about was expanding formats. Have casual flights, have a reserve experience, have blending sessions, have food pairings, but give people options.

SPEAKER_03 45:34

Like it.

SPEAKER_00 45:35

That's personalization. Uh, strategic pillar number two, I said invest in training. Why? Because your staff is not salespeople, they're storytellers. Emotional intelligence matters. Hire for that. You can always teach wine. You can always teach wine. You cannot hire, you cannot um teach emotional intelligence. In other words, don't judge people when they walk in based on how they look. Um, move beyond the script-based service, so investment and training. Number three, I said lower barriers. That means flexible reservations. That means transparent pricing. That means letting people come as a walk-in visitor if you can possibly do it. Strategic pillar number four, I said, let's lead with our values, right? And this is sustainability. And I mean authentic, credible, vetted sustainability. Um, community partnerships, if you partner with, I don't know, shelters or um BIPOC organizations or movements, um, and having an authentic local identity. That all really matters. Your values matter, but if you don't stand behind it, don't talk about it. In other words, you gotta walk the walk, not just talk the talk. Um, I'm a big proponent of um working regionally. So that was the fifth and final strategic pillar I left people with was thinking regionally, collaborating over competition. One winery is an attraction, ten wineries is a destination. It makes sense then to work together. Regional marketing increases visitation for everybody, it creates bigger budgets, and you have a way to make a bigger end. So those are like the five high-level takeaways that that I left people with that I hope made a difference.

SPEAKER_03 47:15

Yeah. No, that's a lot to lot to chew on. Um yeah. Uh can we talk a little bit more about um, you know, you said personal personalization and and um Yes. And we we came in and and and I we are we've already had a staff meeting where, you know, we we we kind of said, okay, uh, we're gonna refer to our the people that walk through the the door as guests. Um and you know, the staff is not staff. Uh I forget what we're doing. They're a team or something.

SPEAKER_00 47:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:46

What's that?

SPEAKER_00 47:47

They're maybe they're a team.

SPEAKER_03 47:49

Yeah, team members for sure. Um but yeah, I mean, storytelling, what um uh it's again, the customer needs to be thought of as you know, uh a living, breathing, thinking, smart uh entity. Um they're they're gonna pick up on on the the same old uh trope, you know. It's it's it's gotta be a little bit more dynamic, I think. Um you know, it is it is it as uh as simple as saying, okay, we we've got our our our you know our five stories here that are in our wheelhouse. As I like to say, um, you know, you're you're packing snowballs for the snowball fight and you're just waiting for uh you know the the right opportunity to bring these out. Um or is it again a little just a little bit more organic and in some ways it's like you just find the right people and and they have that gifted gab and and and we've all seen them and met them. Um I'm a little bit more uh I guess stoic and and introverted most of the time, but um but some people just can can get on a conversation and just roll with it and in some ways it's a a beautiful thing to watch, but not everybody's like that.

SPEAKER_00 48:52

Um well in the storytelling piece though, Scott, like it it can get very script-like though. And that's why I based the entirety of the um premise of my speech on brand clarity. So we started out with a slide that has 11 questions that I gave to all the winders and I said, don't worry about the story, because what will happen if you're training your staff on a story, they're going to want to regurgitate that. And I don't care how good you are, I don't care if you're an actor, eventually that sounds very rehearsed and very put on. So when you sit down, and look, this is not glamorous work and it's not easy work, but if you as an owner sit down and ask yourselves questions like, why do we exist? And I don't mean to make wine, that's not the right answer. It's deeper than that, right? Who are we for? What makes us meaningfully different? What do we want to be known for? How do we talk? How do we not talk? What's our flagship? What's our anchor? What's our North Star? Um, are we consistent across every touch point? What do we want to be in five to 10 years, right? If if you can get really clear on that as ownership and leadership, you know, if your management can get clear on that, and that becomes part of the onboarding for all of your new staff. Now they understand. It's less about memorizing a story and more about learning who you are as a brand and what you stand for. That's brand clarity, and that is integral to brand success. It is integral.

SPEAKER_02 50:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 50:28

Yeah, I again I I like that. That that's kind of what I was alluding to, um, as opposed to having it, you know, rehearsed and and coming off as as cheesy and forced. Um, if people understand, you know, the as I say, the origin story, then doesn't matter how the the the situation presents itself, um, they're they're familiar with, you know, what what should be said because it's it is a part of uh the ethos of the organization. And um exactly.

SPEAKER_00 50:59

And Scott, if a vi if a guest can see what's important for the guest to why it's important for them to understand your ethos is that that that leaves some openness to the story. That means they can find space for themselves in your story. That's where connection happens.

SPEAKER_03 51:17

Okay. And so, I mean, we again we feel this, but um again, it goes back to that that that story brand uh concept where you know the the the business will take care of itself if we're able to um build something that the customer uh gets value from. I mean, um and and and there's lots of ways for that to happen, but they they need to to get something more than just a bottle of wine or a cheap buzz. I mean, they they have to they have to feel something. And so we're we we we need to be discussing and thinking about these things on on that level and meeting them in that respect. Um can you maybe uh without putting you too much on the spot, I mean, but can you maybe think of some ways in which you frame the narrative so that the customer is uh you know, the hero of the story, if you will. What does it look like for a customer to come in and get their bottle of wine, which ultimately is is the the objective. We we we're trying to have a transactional uh you know interaction here where you know we give you the experience in a bottle of wine and and you give us your money. I mean, uh I guess at one level that that is what's happening because we've got bills to pay and we've got to keep this going and and and hopefully sharing it with more and more people, and it's just it's it's it's sustainable in that respect. In some ways, every business transaction is a quid pro quo interaction, but um, what does it look like, you know, if it's working well for uh, you know, what is the customer in a perfect world getting besides a bottle of wine when they when they come into a business, if if we're doing well at our they're getting an amazing escape, right?

SPEAKER_00 52:57

I mean, daily life is stressful. We are inundated with emails, phone calls, text messages. You know, it used to be you left work and at five o'clock and work stayed there. Well, now work is with you all the time. You know, on top of that, you add in children and spouses and other things. And, you know, people are busier than ever. Busier than ever. They need a break. So for some guests, it's truly they just get a chance to sit down and breathe. For other guests, it's I feel like I'm supporting and I know I'm supporting a local Indiana winery growing Indiana fruit or sourcing it from Indiana farmers, and we love that. We want to support Indiana farmers and Indiana grown stuff. We're on board with it. Some people want that education, they want to leave feeling smarter so that they can go back to their dinner party next week and tell their friends, like, hey, did you know this about this particular grape or this particular wine? So again, I'd say it depends upon each guest, right? Um, but ultimately they all want connection, meaning, participation, and belonging. So if you can carve out what that means for each demographic, if you will, that comes into your each audience that comes into your tasting room, you will have been successful. But ultimately, we want, at least here on Seneca Lake, right? We we want folks, my overall goal um is that we want to make sure that we're defining and delivering uh a compelling can't miss experience, right? We really want folks to understand this is not just wine, this is agriculture, it's community, it's hospitality, it's entrepreneurship, and you want to be here.

SPEAKER_03 54:43

Um, I just pulled up our our story brand. Um uh it says uh this is kind of our our our, if you will, ethos based on on that particular book. It says that we offer nature-loving wine drug drinkers a refuge from the fast paced of modern life by offering a relaxing, uh relaxation-filled afternoon in the country. Now you can visit a gorgeously uh beautiful, kid-friendly, dog-friendly, authentically old-world wine-growing estate without having to travel hundreds or thousands of miles to enjoy wine country. So I love that. Quite quite, I think, uh mirrors what what you were saying in terms of um what is the the the added or what is the prime value. I mean, wine, as you said, you can go get a bottle uh, you know, for for probably much cheaper if it's all about wine or or alcohol, or you know, or whatever it is, it's it's so much more than that. It's gotta be about um providing providing more than than uh than just you know uh a a drink and a glass. And there is uh obviously the the the the allure of wine and and all the mystique and all the the nostalgia and and and all the every wine producer has that, right?

SPEAKER_00 55:52

Well, I am always talking to my member wineries about your unique selling proposition or your USP, right? Everyone has wine. That's not unique. Everyone says world class, everyone says award-winning, everyone says 90 plus point. Even that's not enough at now, right? It's why should someone choose to come here now? What makes this experience different from Napa, from Michigan, from Sonoma, from Willamette, from Europe, or even staying home, frankly. I mean, you could literally get alcohol delivered to your door for cheap. So why should they want to come here, right? And that's the space we're really focused on is defining and then delivering that really compelling can't miss experience.

SPEAKER_03 56:36

That's great. I I love that. That's a great way to kind of bookend it, is is is you know, at the end of the day, that's what we need to be really hyper focused on is um is uh the you know conveying uh how you know the whatever it is that needs to be done to can compel the the um the the customer to to come and and uh and and check your place out because there's a lot of competition, you know, beer wine spirits. Uh um so yeah, that's that's that's great. Um before we wrap up, um, you know, uh anything I guess maybe new on the horizon or anything that that that uh is really jumping out at you as as things that are a little bit different in this day and age. Um you know, maybe, maybe it's you know what's going on in 2026, but uh any trends that you're seeing that are worth uh talking about in the context of of this user experience that we've been talking about?

SPEAKER_00 57:34

Yeah, I would say here on Seneca Lake, uh Scott, we're entering a phase where refinement and reinvention are gonna go hand in hand, probably, right? I mean, we've been around for quite some time now, the 30 plus years. Um I think you're gonna see us doubling down on higher impact marketing, uh, being more intentional about our event strategies. Those are really important uh revenue generators for us, but they're also lead generators for our member wineries. However, we know they need a little bit of reinvention, a little bit of refreshing. Um, and we will be uh also really working on building stronger partnerships to extend our reach with the idea that we have not just the opportunity, but the responsibility really to elevate the overall perception of the region, meaning Seneca Lake being positioned as not just a great East Coast wine destination, right? That's that's really small thinking, I would say. But really, we should be a globally respected one. We we, as you you mentioned at the top, right? We're making some of the most wonderful Rieslings in the world. And that's according to consumers, to experts, to scorers, to judges, publications. So yeah, I think our goal is simple, right? That uh when someone is deciding where to go next, we want Seneca Lake not to just be an option, but the obvious choice. And so we're gonna we're gonna stay laser focused on consumer on consumer marketing, but learn from um you know what the challenges and seize the opportunities. There's certainly a ton of challenges, but there's a lot of opportunity too.

SPEAKER_03 59:07

Okay. Um what are what are some of the challenges that you see that uh it's again? I asked you the question, what are what are the number one or two or three challenges that uh that that you see right off the top of your head?

SPEAKER_00 59:20

Yeah, I mean declining visitation trends, that's a huge one. Um increasing competition, not just from other wine regions, but from other leisure activities. There's also the broader shift in alcohol consumption, especially among younger demographics. So I think for us, it mostly comes back to declining visitation. We have experienced um here in Seneca Lake and in the Finger Lakes in general, just a decline in tasting room visits. And I think that's driven by a lot of different factors. Um, but that's huge for us because as I mentioned at the beginning, right, cellar door visits for for our businesses, for their the way they're structured, are a prerequisite to being successful. So we are we have got to turn that tide and make it go back up again.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:03

Yeah. Would you say then that um this discussion is not just about um uh you know making the experience better for the sake of of improvement, but it's uh maybe even out of a sense of survival. I mean, we've got to do a better job of of being like, this is here, we um this is what you get, and then uh figuring out ways to again get those numbers back to where uh the business is sustainable. I mean, um it's almost like in that sense, it's not it's it's no longer an option. Like we have to do better. Is that yes?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:36

Uh yep. Refine, refine, refine. You know, we don't, I don't ever sleep, I don't ever rest. Um, for me, this has got to be it's about so much more than marketing. It's about supporting a community of small businesses that are very deeply invested in this region. Um and as you mentioned, it it really is to an extent existential, right? I mean, we cannot continue to sustain decline in visitation. I don't want to paint it as like dire. It's certainly not dire, right? But for so many years, we experienced such an amazing growth, right? Um and look, that that level of growth at that pace was not gonna continue for the long term. That's that's just not even possible. Um, but boy, we are going to really work hard to um address the declining visitation and really um build long-term sustainable growth for the region. We want the Cenec Lake Wine Trail to be seen not just as a collection of wineries, but as a cohesive, must-visit destination with a really strong brand identity. And that means, as you said, elevating the quality of the experience, strengthening our marketing strategy, and making sure we're really delivering value to our member wineries. That that that's our ultimate goal.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:48

Yeah. Well, we'll end it there because I could sit here and pepper you for questions for the rest of the afternoon.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:55

And I would answer.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:56

Yeah, I know you would. And we'll we'll we'll have to talk again, um, hopefully in person. MLI will come out and and track you down and uh glass of wine with you. Yeah. Um I I again, um, yeah, I knew when I started kind of researching or talk thinking about what I wanted to talk about, that this is kind of the way it would go. I mean, I haven't heard a single thing here that doesn't um make intuitive sense. And and yeah, it it it pays to not sugarcoat these things. We've got to meet them head on and and um you know deal with reality. And uh certainly um wine is a beautiful thing, the experience is a beautiful thing. We are we are tapping into a you know generational history. There's a reason why uh wine is what it is to the world. Um but uh but there's room to improve, uh there's room to be better. And you guys are in a great position right now because it's already you already find bottles of of of uh you know Riesling from from Seneca Lake, and most you know, right up next to the Australian and and German Rieslings. So it's there. Um and uh so yeah, uh, but it's you know it would be foolish to say that, well, we've we've arrived. It's it's you gotta keep growing or get busy living or get busy dying for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:09

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:10

Um I can't thank you enough for your time. I I really enjoyed it. I'm definitely already know I'm gonna be going back through this and and we'll be revisiting and and listening to some of that. So I appreciate your time, Brittany. Can't wait to come visit you guys. If you're ever in Indiana, obviously please come see us. And uh yeah, thank you so much. You have a great Friday and a great rest of your weekend.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:30

My pleasure. Thanks again.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:32

Thank you, ma'am.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:35

All right. Well, thank you, Brittany. I really enjoyed talking with you. Uh a lot of really good information, some high level marketing thing, and more than anything, uh we just really uh appreciated hearing that maybe some of the things we're doing are the right way to do things because we're just kind of winging it out. So uh appreciate your time and uh appreciate you guys being here to listen. Talk to you soon. Bye.