Nuturing young minds, one story at a time

Today I’m joined by Natalie Horseman — a storyteller, nurse, author, and founder of Horseman Publishing who brings creativity, emotion and experience to readers of all ages. Natalie writes adventurous and heart-centred children’s books — like The Bumpy Pumpkin and the Goat on the Go series — that spark imagination while weaving in important lessons about kindness, resilience, curiosity, and growing through life’s ups and downs.

Her work spans from playful stories for young readers to broader family resources and emotional support tools, and she does it all with a focus on clarity and empowerment — values that resonate deeply with the work we explore here at Parent Connect.

Today we’re talking about how stories help children make sense of big emotions, how parents can use narrative and language to foster emotional clarity, and why clarity matters more than rescue or over-explaining in both family relationships and co-parenting dynamics.

You can find Natalie on the link below 👇

https://www.facebook.com/nataliehorsemanauthor/directory_intro

🎙️ Parent to Parent – Parenting Unfiltered
Real stories. Honest conversations. Support for parents navigating the messy, magical, and meaningful moments of raising teens.

💬 Connect with me:
Facebook: Parent to Parent – Parenting Unfiltered
https://facebook.com/jennifer.morrison.7773
YouTube: Parent to Parent Channel
https://www.youtube.com/@jennifermorrison4224
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/yourgencoaching_supportingmums/

🌟 Subscribe & Share:
If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, rate, and share it with another parent who needs to hear they’re not alone.

💛 Together, we’re creating a space where parents can be real, reflect, and reconnect.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Welcome to Parent to Parent. Parenting Unfiltered with Jennifer Morrison, founder of Parent to Parent. This is a space where real conversations about parenting happen. Jennifer sits down with mum, dad, and carers to share their stories. The wins, the worries, and the moments that remind us we're not in this alone. With honesty, empathy, and a focus on what really matters, these conversations strip away the pressure and get to the heart of parenting. Because parenting isn't perfect, it's real. And here it's unfiltered.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Welcome to another Parent Connect podcast. And today I am going to be talking to an amazing lady who I have managed to connect to on LinkedIn, which is great. And her name is Natalie Horseman. And Natalie is a storyteller, a nurse, an author, well, and a founder of Horseman Publishing. She brings creative emotion and experience to readers of all ages. Natalie writes adventures and hard-hearted children's books like The Bumpy Pumpkin. What a great name for a book. And the goat on the go series. And we're going to talk about this particular special goat that sparks imagination while weaving important lessons in kindness, resilience, curiosity, and growing through life's ups and downs. And Natalie's work spans from playful stories to young readers to broader family resources and emotional support tools. And she does this with a focus on clarity and empowerment, values that resonate deeply with the work we explore here. So today we're going to talk about how stories help children make sense of big emotions, how parents can use the narrative and language to foster emotional clarity, and why clarity matters more than rescue or overexplaining it both family relationships and co-parenting dynamics. Natalie, I am glad you are here. Oh, thank you. I am so excited to be here. I appreciate it. You're welcome. So let's start. Your children's books are full of adventure and life lessons. Storytelling help children make sense of complex feelings in a way that simply talking doesn't.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

It gives them visual cues. It gives them a way to see emotion other than just someone saying, You're angry, you're sad. What does that mean to a little kid? You need more than just the words. So being able to relate to a character that maybe has a red face because they're angry, or maybe they're showing a frowny face because they're sad. Kids may not necessarily know those words, but they know what that feeling is like, that they know that something is impacting them that makes them feel down. And so with storytelling, we can give kids and really readers of all ages characters that they can relate to on various different levels. Whether a kid can actually read the words and understand them, or just look at the pictures and have an image resonate with them that they go, gosh, I know what that feels like. I've felt that. I've been frustrated or disappointed, or my cheeks get red when I get angry. And so having these relatable cra characters, whether they're pumpkins or goats or people or whatever, it gives them another outlet, another way to translate their own feelings and emotions, other than just using words.

SPEAKER_02 3:54

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I want to know why this, where this started. What made you go down this road? Till us in a little bit about the background, about your family dynamic so that we can understand where bumpy pumpkin came from and where your little precious dope came from.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Yes, yes. So I have loved storybooks since I was a little kid. I was the one that was always at the library with my canvas bag full of books. I had my little library card. And I came from a family with my mom who was a single mom at the time. That's where we spent a lot of my summer days. And when I would travel to my aunt and my grandmother's, that's what we did is we got storybooks. And I have the best memories of story time with these wonderful women in my life. And not only would we do story times, but they would give me books for all holidays, my birthday, and they would always sign them and put a little note in them. And I still have those storybooks to these days. So they are well over 40 years old. And I just have the most joyful, warmest, heartfelt memories of this time with my family, whether it was them reading to me or when I got to read or when I started to read to my younger sister, who I am seven years older. So these are just all wonderful connection points in my my childhood. Just kept putting it off and putting it off. And so finally one day I said, I'm ready, I'm over myself. If I'm gonna do it, just sit down, write this book. And I am one that loves the funky pumpkins. I love the pumpkins that are different. And I had always been buying those. And I was looking at a bumpy pumpkin one time, and I thought, this is so relatable on so many levels. You've got a lot of times these different pumpkins are left behind in the patch. I think all of us can connect with that idea and that story of just self-doubt or being self-conscious. And the just the name Bumpy Comp Bumpy Pumpkin came to me and it was fun to say. It's a bit of a tongue twister sometimes. Yeah, yeah. And I just was like, just write it, see what happens. Nothing bad is gonna happen by just writing it. And little did I know that writing that book was gonna kick off this amazing journey and love for writing that I really did not know was locked deep down inside of me. So yeah, it's been truly amazing. But my main goal is to write books that create some type of connection for someone. Even if it's just one child, one parent, if they have that memorable moment, then I've done my job.

SPEAKER_02 6:43

Absolutely. And you know, a lot of people or a lot of parents over the generations have liked to sit with children and read before bed. That's when grandmas and granddads do it. So it's something we all tend to naturally navigate towards when we've got a little person in our space, I think. And they do love it, even if they flick five pages ahead and not really listening, that's okay. Um you're parenting children, but in a slightly different way. Do you want to share a little bit about that and how maybe this has also helped the process of what you're doing now?

SPEAKER_00 7:18

Yes. And so with all the books, they all have a subtle message. I did not want the books to be preachy. I wanted it to be relatable and kids to see themselves even in a character that was a goat. And so my hope with each book and each goal is to provide lessons that kids can relate to that parents can appreciate and also generate some type of discussion afterwards of do you know what it's like to feel this certain emotion that the pumpkin is feeling or see this event that Scout is having? Let's talk about it. Have you experienced that? And it's an interesting way to generate those conversations and parenting in a different way than it is just sitting and what I think a lot of us growing up may have experienced was just dictating. It was because I said so. This is why you do it. And storybooks can offer us another way of having conversations and seeing the world through a very colorful lens that is full of venture, but also has those lessons in it that are so important for that psychological, mental, emotional development of kids. And it's the stories that resonate with children and that they want to keep coming back to. There's something in it that they are really connected to. And those kind of moments are just amazing. And I think it's so important that we pay attention to those and latch onto them and really foster and nurture that because it's just another way to share messages that can be very creative and fun for children versus just sitting and being told what to do, so to speak, or not to do.

SPEAKER_02 8:54

Just going back to that thing about going back to those books, how kids can go back to those books. What do you think the difference is between helping name an emotion and helping a child to understand it? Why does that distinction really matter?

SPEAKER_00 9:10

Kids have to figure it out for themselves. They have to recognize it at whatever level that may be. And again, it may just be a recognition of a facial expression or that a color translates to something or the body language. And so they have to make the connection for themselves. And you could put five, six-year-olds in a room, have them each read the same story, and they're going to each take something away from it. And it's whatever visually stimulates them that they connect to, or whatever words, or even their own emotion that they may feel. Maybe it makes them giggle, maybe it makes them happy, maybe it reminds them of their parents or their siblings. And so it's amazing. There's so many ways kids can connect with a book, and each child will be different in that that aspect of what they were drawn to and what they pay attention to and what keeps them coming back to that same story.

SPEAKER_02 10:01

Because I think I can remember having favorite books that I would go back to. And I suppose I've shown my age here, but I used to love the famous whole series and those. And yeah, and used to do all these great adventures and go off in spaces. And books are a great space to go into as well and learn to go into because they can be a retreat as well as a fun thing. They can be a retreat to get away at the world for a little while and be able to come home and you just go into yourself and feel safe. So let's talk about the distinction about overexplaining and all that sort of thing. In your experience, where do parents tend to over-explain or over-interpret children's behavior? And how can they shift that to a clearer and more supportive sort of role?

SPEAKER_00 10:54

Yes, I think sometimes less is more, especially when we're explaining something. Depending on the scenario and the tone of the event or what's going on, children can shut down right away just based on the tone of the adult that's talking with them. And so it's something as adults we need to pay attention to because at that point, the kid is no longer receptive to whatever we're trying to explain, even if it's for their safety or for what's best for them. And so trying to figure out with that specific child what is a way to connect with them. And again, I think what's hard too for adults and for parents who even have several children, each child is so different. And each child will interpret and receive information. And so it's having an understanding, okay, maybe I'm trying to explain something this way, and you can just tell it is not connecting. Either the child is getting defensive or not paying attention or not even engaged. So then we need to change our tactic. And so if we're just doing words, maybe it is. We pull out a book that can then help either calm the situation, reframe it, or just create a better moment for connection that will then lead you to a good opportunity to have a conversation. But sometimes more words is not best. It just gets muddled for a child. And so taking a step back and saying, okay, how can we simplify this? And then I think also asking the child, what did they understand? And what are they, how do they interpret the scenario? Because a lot of times as adults, we can project on the children and we can think that we know exactly what they're going through or that they should be thinking something or doing something. And until we ask, we don't really quite know what's going on in their little head. When the best way to connect with them and explain things, it's tricky though. Definitely tricky.

SPEAKER_02 12:43

It sounds good in theory.

SPEAKER_00 12:45

Yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

It's hard. And of course, in the moment too, emotions start to rise and the clarity can get a bit foggy, can't it? Oh look, I'm sure we've all been there.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

And I think too, as adults giving ourselves grace. You know, it we're not going to get it right every time. And it's okay to circle back. Let's say we're trying to have a conversation and it is just not happening and it has just been a disaster. Take a breather, go do something else, and then come back and reapproach it. That's the great thing about kids, is you can always come back to it and just reframe the conversation or situation or have other resources at your fingertips. But yeah, I think parents and adults were so hard on ourselves and it's hard to get it right. And so it's paying attention to the reaction you're getting from the child. If it's not sitting right with you or you're not, it's not productive, then you pause, you pivot, you take a breath, you come back to it later. But I that phrase just beating that horse over and over again, it's not going to get anywhere. So I think that's where parents can say, okay, I'm frustrated. The child's possibly frustrated. Let's just take a breather. Let's just we'll come back to it. But it's hard, especially in a moment or when it's an event that warrants a strong safety concern or something like that. This not every scenario is the same. No.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

And as you said, if you've got other children, not every child's the same. So you really do have to read the room a lot more. And that's something I'm really noticing with my parenting coaching, that parents today are so emotionally overwhelmed because they're carrying everybody's emotions. Yeah. And I mean everybody's, and including their own. And I think this is a good moment to reflect that you don't actually have to do that. You don't have to carry everyone's emotions. You can let them have them. Your child's allowed to feel a little bit disappointed at times or a little bit sad or that you haven't measured up, but they're not going to give you a hard time around that. They just sometimes need to feel it because if we don't do that, we're not responsibly giving them the opportunity to learn what that feels like. And to also learn their emotions.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

How do they deal with them? You're so right. We can't fix it all, and we're not meant to fix it all. One way of growing, both for children and adults, is through experience. And you have to go through it to experience it to see what it's like to be from beginning, middle, and end. And the only way kids can do that is if they experience it themselves. And so if we're always trying to fix or mitigate or not let them have a potentially disappointing experience or be frustrated, they don't know how to handle those emotions. One, they don't recognize what it is. So they start to feel it internally and they don't know what it means. And so it can come out in various ways because they just don't know how to channel whatever they're feeling or how to express it, or they don't know it translates to, I am disappointed because I am angry because I am sad because. And let's talk about what this means, what we can do about it. But if we jump in to fix it, it can be stunting in a way that then they don't know how to handle those big emotions that, you know, stick with us our entire lives.

SPEAKER_02 16:09

Absolutely. And there's a big talk about this soft parenting, and there are diff levels of that, and that's another story. But this whole idea of rescuing, we are, if we go down that road as parents, we actually make our children helpless. They are unable to do all of these things that we're talking about, and they don't grow up into adults who can handle things, and they're the ones that blame, throw it back at other people, and just aren't able to function as well as we want them to. So any parent listening now, please understand rescuing is okay if it's going to create death or injury, things like that. But if it's just normal everyday stuff where they're disappointed because you've changed your mind, you're not going to the beach. It's okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

It's okay. Yes. And I think to your point talking about if the event changed or there's disappointment, I think also that teaches kids not only what disappointment is, sadness, anger, but also how to pivot, how to take a potentially frustrating situation and turn it into something good or something more memorable or more enjoyable. And that is a skill that takes some time to learn, even as adults, but being able to reframe your thinking and the scenario and then be able to look at it from maybe a more positive or a productive, constructive way, it takes skill and it takes practice. And the only way you get to that is if you're allowed to go through those emotions and feelings on your own. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:43

And I I think that a along that very same line, if you can't do those sorts of things again, you get to that space with the child where they just stick their heels in and just have a tantrum or whatever it is, because they don't know how to do that. They get stuck in that space and they don't know how to get out of it. And I've seen that with my own grandson, where he just doesn't know how to get out of that space because he hasn't learned how to do it. So now we do breathing exercises and we figured it out that that's how we do it.

SPEAKER_00 18:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 18:18

Because that's he's nine and it's been nine years worth of doing that. And it just is something that we do now and it works really well. So we do have to have our let our kids feel the stuff that they're allowed to feel. Stopping from all of that is such a negative added, as I said before, you your kid becomes helpless. Everybody's got to do it for you for them. All right, so let's just go on a slightly little different tangent. Uh when co-parenting or communicating through challenges, stories and metaphors often help. How can parents use these books to structure meaning rather than just simply manage the emotions?

SPEAKER_00 19:00

What is very interesting about any kind of storybook, there's always there's always some relatable character and a way to spin it in a way that relates to your own family, your own circumstance, your own life events. And it's a way to bridge that conversation and say, let's read the bumpy pumpkin. We're reading through it, and take, let's say, an image on the book or emotion or a word, and you can tie it into what you know your is currently going on in your family. And it can be a segue into a conversation. And so it starts that conversation starts in a very safe place, a very kind of fun, warm space within a a storybook. And so there's so many ways to use books again to help drive conversations and lessons and things that are impactful on a parenting level. And I think sometimes we need to make sure we don't see books as just a book, just words. There's so much more to them that they can be used as tools and resources right at our fingertips to help in so many different situations and scenarios.

SPEAKER_02 20:08

Yeah. And I think one of the loveliest skills we can give our child is to learn to read and to love books. I think it's just an amazing thing. You know, a lot of children some children are just not bookie. But I think if in there we can encourage at least a little bit of bookie, that's a good thing for them. I know that's not a word. Bookie's not a word, but you know what I mean. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

Yes. And I think too, uh even if it's not a child doesn't necessarily love a story time or wants to read books, but creating that space of just quiet time or time to sit and do something else that kind of gets them out of the hustle and bustle of the day and gives them an opportunity to just kind of settle down, let the stimulation of the day, you know, settle. And that's just as important. And so it could be sitting with books, looking through books, coloring what you see in the books. There's a lot that you can do with them that can really provide that kind of calm space that you know kids uh heck adults needed. I I would love a story time in the middle of work day.

unknown 21:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

Just to decompress. And that's just as important. And kids, it just looks a little different.

SPEAKER_02 21:20

Yeah. And if we don't give them the opportunity, they don't learn that one either, do they, Nettling? Correct.

SPEAKER_00 21:26

Yeah. That those coping mechanisms, that kind of self soothing and just finding resources and ways to kind of, you know, comfort ourselves during, let's say, the day or hectic moments. There's a lot of tools and resources, but if you don't experience that, you don't know that they're there to tap into.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:48

And even if you see them, you have no idea what you do with them. So it all leads into the other, doesn't it? Yeah. Your books often include themes like friendship, curiosity, and self discovery. How do stories help build the internal clarity that kids need, not just the emotional regulation, but understanding themselves and others? So your stories do this, and I'd like to know how that kind of works.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

Yeah, yeah. So with the stories, I wanted to provide connection points. So knowing again that each child will read them and get take something completely different. So I wanted to have different kind of themes and those points, like you mentioned. And so friendship is one of them. And all of my books, the friends all look different. So whether it's a different looking goat or it's another animal or it's a different looking pumpkin. So to highlight, hey, our friends all look different. We're all not the same. And so we're bigger and taller and we look different. So that is one connection point. And then the other is just curiosity, asking questions. I think kids, it's so important to know that it's okay to ask questions and to be curious and ask those whys, even though it can be very aggravating sometimes. But why is it this? Or what does that look like? Or what does that mean? And then providing those opportunities for those questions and then providing answers. And so there's a lot of questions in my book. So where Scout the Goat is just curious, what's going on? What is this? What's beyond? And I think it helps to teach kids too to expand their thinking. It's not just our little bubble right here. What's outside of our little bubble? Or what happens if we go right instead of left? And so providing a safe space to explore those ideas and that imagination and really foster it and have that point of, yeah, ooh, I understand what this is like, or I'm curious, or let me go outside and let me see what the area looks like over there, or if we do something different. And so it's just a cool way to engage kids at in various different ways and levels.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

Yeah. And kids are very naturally curious anyway. And the why by the why can get a bit annoying, but it's important that we allow them to go there. Shutting them down is not a good option. I'm just saying that because that was my experience. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 24:22

Because they said so. That was my that was the response I ever always got. Yes. Yeah, because I said so.

SPEAKER_02 24:29

Close that door.

unknown 24:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

Okay. So how can adults model emotional clarity for children, not just through the words, but through the way they hold those boundaries and decisions?

SPEAKER_00 24:41

I think we lead by example, and that is really hard. Because I like you mentioned, adults, parents, we are carrying the weight of the world and not only trying to take care of ourselves, our jobs, our families, but also these little ones who are looking to us for a safety and guidance. And it I think it's so important for, again, adults to give themselves grace and be patient with themselves, and then also provide these opportunities for kids to explore, connect, expand their imagination. You were talking about the kids that always ask why. The yes, it can be super aggravating, but the great thing is it means they're thinking, right? They're curious, they want to know. Their mind is just going. What a cool thing that a kid is just sitting there wondering all these wonderful things. And as parents, there's many different ways that we can help foster that. One of that is with books and that help show them these different worlds that they can escape to and imagine it and use their imagination. And I I think too, it's just again this wonderful opportunity to connect and bring uh things together in a way that is just different than just regular conversation or a parent dictating to a child what they need to do. It just provides different opportunities to explain things that are going on in the world with emotions and people and things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:09

Yeah, new mid uses that magic word curiosity. And children have that because the world is a huge, amazing, wonderful place. They hadn't been here before. And they're seeing it from a completely different space, which is my God, what's out there? What is this? Curiosity. And I feel saddened in a sense that that curiosity gets closed down as we grow and we stop going into that curiosity space and we lose it. But I'm learning to go back into that curiosity space. And I try and uh share that with my parents as well, because if we can get back into a curiosity space, we're more able to be in that curiosity space with our kids. But when our kids are tiny, we go, oh wow, you know, they're so into that bee that's on that flower. And yet we would just walk past and not think twice about it. And so we tend to a little bit when they're little, but then we get out of it again. Yeah, that is the thing. Yeah. That's a great point, yeah. It is, and I think it's keeping that child in us alive a bit, isn't it? We tend to put them away. We get to a certain age and we put our toys away.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

Yes, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:30

And as I've got older, the more I'm going back to my childhood, picking her up and bringing me bringing her with me. Because a lot of those things didn't happen for her. So I'm now letting her do that with me. And it's great. I know it sounds a little bit weird and a bit, but it worked because we do leave our child behind a lot of the things. Particularly if we've had a rough childhood or a childhood where we've been pretty much on our own. Um it's all part of that healing process, isn't it, as well? I love your goat stories. So can you talk about where that came from and why this particular goat has this name?

SPEAKER_00 28:11

Yes, absolutely. So during the pandemic, I had just moved to North Carolina and the states and was looking for opportunities to do things outside. And I didn't know anything, didn't know anyone. And there was a farm not far away that had baby goats. And I'm like, okay, sign me up. So that is where I spent a lot of time during some of that, those down days with within the pandemic. And they started an adopt a goat program, and you got to be notified when a mama goat was going into labor. You got to be there, you got to name the goat, and I signed up. And I like to say the rest was history. Little Scout was born, I got to be right there when you scout. I leading up to what I had all these different names, and the day of looking at him, it just popped in my head. I'm like, there's this little spunky little goat that immediately was up wandering around, and Scout just came to me and it stuck. It has just been such, such a great name for him. And it's it was fun for me not knowing a whole lot about about goats beforehand. So getting to grow up in a sense, my knowledge with Scout. And what I realized very early on, they are very much like kids, very curious, very mischievous, always into something that they're trying to figure out what's going on, always trying to make friends and interested in snacks and all over the place and very creative. And it did not take long for me to look at Scout and go, You remind me of a chuckle. Yeah. And it's funny to be cold kids too, isn't it? Exactly. Yes. Yeah. And there were so many great connection points of just he would get out of his pen and go see some friends. And he just wanted to see what was next door. Or he was curious about the snack that someone had, or would hop in the back of the truck and make his way down the driveway. And so there were so many of these great moments. Scott has given me so much great content to write about because I it's so relatable. I find that you've got this goat, and yes, it's an animal, but it is very much like a child. It is curious and it has feelings and emotions and wants to explore and try new things and see what happens, but also needs to have an adult type figure that is looking after him and making sure that he's getting home, that he is always safe. And so all the books have two characters that are these parent types. One is named Pickles, he is an older scruffy goat who is the voice of reason. And then you have Luna, who is the shepherd dog who doesn't say anything but always keeps a watchful eye on Scout. So she's always off to the side in a scene or kind of always corralling him, or when there's one scene where he realizes that he's by himself and he starts to feel a little bit nervous and afraid, realizes that he's not sure where he is. And then there's Luna to help usher him back to where he needs to go. And so I think it also shows a great way that it's not just parents, there are adults, there are people in our lives for the kids that are there to protect them and keep them safe. And so that can look when you think about blended families, adults can be all different types. And in these books, it's not just the mama goat and the daddy goat. There it's a good old friend and a sheepdog that helped take care of Scott and make sure that he is always safe.

SPEAKER_02 31:53

Yeah, and it's important that this there are people in our world as children that have been the quieter protectors who are sort of on the peripheral, if you like. I see myself like that a bit like that as a grandparent. I'm leaning more towards Luna. And that's kind that's a really gorgeous picture in my head already of that sort of thing. It's like that gentle pull back in, let out again, but also that ability to just go and explore.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

Yeah. Yes, yeah, exactly. And yeah, and kids getting to learn boundaries and what happens when you start exploring them, yes, is exciting. Yes, you can learn new things. You also have to be aware because there is cause and effect. And so again, it's just gentle ways to start those kind of conversations about scenarios that kids can find themselves in.

SPEAKER_02 32:54

Which group of books are you more popular at that? Is it the pumpkin or is it Scat or maybe a design?

SPEAKER_00 33:02

I would say it both of them for different reasons. It's interesting, the bumpy pumpkin really resonates. I was the kid that had glasses or freckles, or I was the kid that looked different. And so they relate to the bumpy pumpkin. And it's interesting that this children's book gives adults a moment to pause and reflect and appreciate them o theirselves and how self-doubt and being self-conscious doesn't just stop when you were younger, it it carries on throughout your life. And so the bumpy pumpkin is really just a message for everyone about loving yourself, embracing yourself, and really celebrating that we are all different. And then the goat books have a just kind of fun adventure way for kids to ask questions and explore. And so each one has a different kind of I would say target audience in a sense of what they're getting out of it and the messaging and why they keep coming back to them.

SPEAKER_02 34:12

Yeah. So you've always loved books, you're writing books now. What's next? Have you got any other little special person or thing that's coming through that because these books are not necessarily are they an age group books, these ones?

SPEAKER_00 34:33

Three to eight is what we typically say. Great for story time, but also those early readers who are starting to pick up on words and format sentences. And I will say there will be more Scout books for sure. But my next book that I'm currently working on with a beautiful illustrator is about different types of families. So I come from a very blended family. My mom was a single mom for several years before she married my stepdad, who essentially raised me and I come from a lot of divorce and just different dynamics. So I had this idea in my head of talking about different types of families, celebrating different types of families, but not doing it with people, doing it with animals. And so you've got a daddy bear and a cub bear, and it's just the two of them. Or you've got two lioness lion moms and their cubs, or you've got different types of animals. You've got a hippo and another animal combination, just to highlight blended families, adoption, fostering, stepfamilies. And so I'm super excited about this rhyming book because it again, it reminds me so much of my own childhood and the dynamics I grew up in, and just a way to say families can look like so many different things. There is not just one way, and I think, especially nowadays, I think if a kid is surrounded by love, that can is a family in and of itself. And so I'm super excited about this one because it I think it really touches on the fact that families don't look like they did 50 years ago. And I think that's a great thing. I think it's more opportunity to experience love and support because we're now finding the opportunity to really support kids in many different ways. And it doesn't have to look the same, which is wonderful. And I think kids need to recognize that just because their family may be different than someone else's, they're still the heart of the family. They're still loved, it is still support. So that will be the next kind of story that's going to be coming. Yeah, that sounds great.

SPEAKER_02 36:41

I know that as a you can feel the love and support inside a family yourself, but if it is different and you go out, if others are not understanding that that's okay, it can be very hard for a child. Um and I know back in the day when my parents separated, it wasn't common. And so you almost were labelled differently. Sure. It would not have been said or anything, but you it's almost like it was a failure of some sort. And I am so thrilled now that we are starting to take this a lot more seriously, that the emotional impact that this has on children, not just the fact that it's happened, but all that other stuff. Like the stone in the pond, you know how it ripples out. Yes, yeah. Which is how it works, isn't it? That's how it works. Yes. So with your co-parenting in your real life, the books that you've done, have they been partly to share with those children, or have they been instrumental in almost being your editors to see whether that's been, you know, positive?

SPEAKER_00 37:54

Yes. Yes. They are what we call my advanced reader groups. I take story ideas, talk it through, and they're great. The six-year-old will be like, that doesn't make sense. I'm like, okay, tell me, because my adult brain is making sense of it, but to a child, it is not interpreting in the same way. And then you've got the nine-year-old who's, oh, I would say it this way. So it has been a great way to take the stories and ideas and find how are they really going to be received by a kid. Because I've just got my adult brain. And so it's helpful to have both adults read the books, but also the kids and to give perspectives. And the books have little nods to them, which is fun, the little names and things like that. But it's been great to have get their perspective, and they're brutally honest, which is wonderful. That's great.

SPEAKER_02 38:47

The kids the kids are brutally honest, aren't they? Okay, and that gets knocked out of us a bit as well, which is a bit of a shame because Yes. Yeah. I think that I love that. That nah, I'm not that's not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00 39:02

I'm not doing it that way. I love it. Yeah, and they they just say what they're thinking and what they're feeling. And then and what I could do is just stop there, but then I ask questions because I want to understand what they're thinking in those moments and how does that translate to them so that then I can make sure the illustrations display that or the words fitted so that it's more congruent and a cohesive piece. Yeah. Because I got the kids to say, okay, this is what makes sense to us.

SPEAKER_01 39:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:33

You've got your own publishing business company.

SPEAKER_00 39:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:37

Why didn't you do that? Was there not anywhere nippy take your books to and get published? Or how did that come about?

SPEAKER_00 39:44

That is a wonderful question. And so starting out in this author world, you don't know what you don't know. I just dove right in and said, I'll figure it out. But one thing I did learn from working with some wonderful mentors and experts is that there are different paths you can go as an author. And each one comes with their own challenges. And so being traditionally published has both positives and negatives. And one of them is control of over your own work. Yeah. And so control of your words, your artwork, what happens to your books. And so I thought, well, let me just try this on my own. And as I started in the process, I was like, let me just create something, a full brand underneath my name that will then really give me total control. And I think it gave me a better sense of responsibility to of like, okay, I am only going to be as successful as I want to be because it's me. And and I think too, with traditional publishing, it just works in a different way. There's different offers that they have, different assets. And doing indie publishing, again, it just looks a bit different. And you don't have so much red tape, so to speak. And it's really just doing what I works best for me. And a lot of it is trial and error. And being my own publishing company, I get to do that and it's just impacting me. And so I get to really fine-tune how I do things in the process. And one thing I've learned about writing, it's just the writing is the easy part. It's everything that comes after. So it's the publishing, it's the marketing, it's everything. And so it's been a safe space for me to grow and learn that on my own time versus kind of being on someone else's timeline. Plus, working with a traditional publisher can be really challenging to get those opportunities. And so self-publishing gives you a very quick way to get your books out again without so much kind of red tape. And so for me, it just was something that made sense and has really worked.

SPEAKER_02 41:49

Yeah. So where do you want that to go? Are you thinking of opening up to other authors or are you wanting to keep it to yourself? How do you want to see that?

SPEAKER_00 41:59

Yeah, I have actually started to work with other authors and it's just been natural. People said, Oh, I've been wanting to do this. I'm like, let's do it. I am happy to help. I 100% get that feeling of, gosh, I've been wanting to do this, but I'm putting it off, or there'll be another time or want to have money. Let's do it together now. And so being able to share the knowledge that when I've learned through research and also working with some wonderful mentors. So yeah, definitely working with some authors who are starting to get their words on pages, get starting to get them illustrated, and then publishing under the courseman publishing name as well. And then just expanding from there to seeing where it goes.

SPEAKER_02 42:35

Great. That's really great. On a lot of levels.

SPEAKER_00 42:42

Yeah. Yes. And I would say for anyone who's thinking about it, one of the most streamlined, quickest ways is to self-publish yourself. And it does you need to understand the process and know what is involved, but it is. It's a more streamlined, easier process to to publish on your own.

SPEAKER_02 43:03

Okay. We're getting towards the end of our time. What's um let's go back to your stories and and all of those amazing reasons why we do what we do with storybooks with children. What's the biggest lesson that you've learned out of doing this over the period of time? What's been the best thing that's come out of this for you?

SPEAKER_00 43:26

The best thing has been, and I remember it just like it was yesterday, a grandmother who I was at an event who bought my book. She's like, Oh, I have a four-year-old granddaughter. She would love this book. She bought the bumpy pumpkin. Her family was there. They went off. They sat down and read the book. And then she came back to me with just this wonderful smile and tears in her eyes. And she said, I just had the best time. We just sat down. We read. She loved it. We talked about it. Thank you for giving us this moment. And I was like, Oh. Why I did it. If nothing else happens with any of the books, this was the exact moment. Because that's what I remember growing up. Those are the moments I have. And so to know that both the child and the adult had that experience and just loved everything about it and that time together. It was the two of them. Oh god, it just it yeah, it totally warm warms my heart every time I think about it. So that's my why. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:25

And there are lots of those little magic moments when you read with children.

SPEAKER_00 44:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 44:30

Yeah. Yes. It's lovely to be in the moment and just try and hold those. Instead of just, okay, that's it, time for bed, turn the light off. Let's try and go back to that space that we are sharing a book with a little one where we are there with them, right there with them. We've turned off as well. We're involved in it. And it's a real moment of time.

SPEAKER_00 44:54

Yes. It helps us to be present. And that is so hard. It is so very hard. And so to be present and connected with a kid, you're both on the same page. You're both literally in that moment together. It's hard. And books, stories can create that moment for us. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:15

I know my nine-year-old knows the book Inside Out, Upside Down. He's got a favorite. And his mum does too. She can do it with her eyes shut, but they still get the book out. But it's almost like they sing through the book now because they both know the words so well. But that's a great thing. If you've got a favorite book, that's a wonderful memory. And memories are what gives us our purpose and our life. They're the stuff you go back to when things are tough.

SPEAKER_00 45:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 45:42

Those really good, solid hang on hang on moment memories. I think I've asked all the questions I wanted to ask you. Yes. Where can people get hold of your lovely books about Scout and the Bumpy Pumpkin?

SPEAKER_00 46:01

Yes, yeah. So my website is just Nally Horseman.com. The books are also on Amazon. And yeah, there's lots of great pictures of the real Scout and funny videos. Again, he's the one that you never know where he is. He's always out of his pen, always in trouble. Literally, good on the go came to me right away because it made sense. He is always the one on the go. So yeah, there's lots of fun pictures in the behind the scenes of Little Scout and his adventures. Do you actually have Scout in your own backyard or does he is he still back at the farm with the others? He is at the farm. And that's probably the number one question I get is does he live with you? He is at a farm that is like 15 minutes away. So I get to go and enjoy him and help take care of him, but he gets to stay on a farm, which is the best place for him to be with all his friends. But yeah, so it's wonderful to be, and it's such a relaxing place to go. To be outside, to be in the sunshine, to be around the animals. It just does so much to make a crazy day feel so much better. And he recognizes you when you come up, does he? Yes. I didn't know that they could. He recognizes his name and I'll come up and he just comes running, or he'll be eating, and I'll be like, hey scout, and he turns around and here he comes. He probably wants the treats that I have, but he still recognizes his name. They love belly rubs. They're really funny, very quirky personalities, very entertaining. Yeah, goats are a very special animal, and I think we've always underestimated goats a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 47:30

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Very smart. Very smart. Creative. Yeah. A bit like our kids. And I wonder whether that is the serendipity of it where they're called kids as well. Kids as well. Yes. There's a lot of similarities.

SPEAKER_00 47:47

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 47:49

Natalie, it's been great. I've loved having this conversation with you. And I do. Yeah, you're welcome. And I do hope that any of our parents who are listening to Parent Connect this podcast can have had a few smiles throughout this chat. They can see themselves or their kids in amongst the goats or the bumpy pumpkins. And all of the information for Natalie's books and things I'll put at the bottom of the podcast. So I'll put the website, that kind of thing, so that anyone of you who are watching it or even on YouTube, you know where to go. But it's been an absolute pleasure. And I wanted to have this chat with you because parents are really struggling emotionally, as I said earlier. And this is just a lovely way to reframe it and perhaps have a rethink about that whole idea of rescuing and overdoing and over-explaining. That we really don't need to go there with our kids. We need to let them we need to let them experiment, appeal, and go into those spaces that we we want to protect them from because that's out the goat. They've got to learn to stand on their own four feet or two feet. Yes. And be able to live their life fully. We want our kids to grow into really capable adults. And that's what we need to remember. They're not going to be kids forever. Correct. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:15

And we want to set them up for success.

SPEAKER_03 49:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:18

And that that means that they it's there's a little bit of trial and error that they need to experience things themselves. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:24

And I love that whole pivot thing. I think that's such an important thing to learn. And I think this is something I deal with my parents too. You need to pivot. You need to don't it's okay. It doesn't matter if I don't do it now. It's okay. Yeah. You can stop. So anyway, thank you so much, Natalie. Um to all my lovely parents who are listening. Thanks again for listening to a Parent Connect podcast and another really good, juicy little story. Just to show that out there in the real world, parenting is not always easy, but it can have its moments of fun. And part of that is sharing books with our children. So when you want to go down that road with a book, remember Puffy Pumpkin or Scout the Naughty Goat or the Good Goat or the Funny Goat or The Exploring Goat. And remember, Natalie's got those lovely books going on. Amazon and through Horseman Publishing. Thanks again, Natalie. And I look forward to seeing all my lovely parents again on another podcast where I'm going to explore some stories with some more wonderful ladies in our world. Thank you again. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 50:33

You've been listening to parent. Parenting unfiltered with Jennifer Morrison. Jennifer is a parent coach dedicated to creating a supportive space for parents, carers, and professionals. To learn more, connect with Jennifer or explore coaching opportunities by following the link in the show notes. Join us again next time for another unfiltered conversation. Because parenting is perfect. And here it's unfiltered.