There is more than one way to learn, create and thrive

I'm delighted to be joined by Sharon Harris for a heartfelt conversation about learning, creativity, resilience, and finding your own way.

Sharon's journey reminds us that there is no single path to success. Through determination, courage, and a passion for cooking, she has created a cookbook designed to make cooking more accessible for people who may find traditional recipes and instructions challenging.

Together we'll explore what it means to learn differently, overcome obstacles, embrace our strengths, and create something meaningful that helps others.

Whether you're neurodivergent, supporting someone who is, or simply interested in hearing an inspiring story of perseverance and possibility, this is a conversation not to be missed.

Because sometimes the things that make us different become the very things that allow us to make a difference.

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https://www.facebook.com/Sharon.Harris.ShazsEasyRecipes

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Well, welcome everyone to another Parent to Parent Connect podcast. And today I have a lovely guest, and her name is Sharon. And Sharon is an inspirational person, in my opinion. I know Sharon on quite a few different levels. And today I want to bring you her story. And Sharon is someone that's done some pretty amazing things through her life, and one of them was she ran the New York Marathon in 2022. We might actually touch on that and find out what an Earth Maider want to do that. Sharon is neurodivergent and she's faced many challenges during her lifetime, but it hasn't stopped her doing a lot of great stuff. And we're going to talk about that coming up, and one of them is her very own cookbook. So we're going to talk about what it means to Sharon, her cookbook, what her journey has been, and what it is that she's learnt through this journey of life. So welcome to the podcast, Sharon, and thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Thank you for inviting me, Jennifer. It's more than a pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

So can you just tell us a little bit about this whole journey that you've been on and what it has shown you?

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Well, I've always had learning difficulties. I've known that, you know, through school because it was uh challenging uh for me picking up um you know written a work and numbers and through life as I got older, got married, had children, and I found that challenging in itself too, because um I found that my son, he was you know up in the top ranks with um being gifted and talented, and I didn't know how to uh help him. So that was challenging in itself because I didn't know how or who to turn to or what to really do. I didn't know how to source things and do all of that because that was that wasn't normal uh to me. So that was and then I also tried um being on school councils and that, but a lot of it I tried, a lot of it was over the top of my head, so I didn't really understand policies and you know and all of that. So that was a struggle, you know, in itself as well. But uh for me I think I've always tried things, um, even at being hard and even it hasn't been uh a success, but at least I've tried it anyway, but at least my kids could see that you know I done uh things, so um yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Sure. Um, and so with the children, I would imagine then, as you said, I mean, and all parents I think would struggle to a degree with the fact that if they've got a very gifted child, how do they support them when they don't feel as uh comfortable or as competent uh mentally as well? So, what sorts of things did you do um to well, how did that work out? How did that support for your son happen?

SPEAKER_00 3:31

Well, it didn't. They just he just grew up in the normal system and um he just he just got bored and sometimes he'd mess around because he wasn't being challenged um enough. I mean he'd rush his work sometimes, but you know, later in life when we talked about it, he's you know, it's just that he was bored because he he wasn't challenged enough um with the work. So, and I guess that's what what happens if you're not challenged enough.

SPEAKER_01 4:03

Yeah. Well it yeah, that's sort of challenge thing is on two levels, isn't it? There's either you're bored stiff or you find it difficult with those challenges. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So um you've done this book, so but what brought you to doing that book? What what was maybe a trigger that you went, oh, here's a good idea, or was it really a good idea, or was it just something that happened?

SPEAKER_00 4:32

Well, no, because I know many people that aren't able to read. So therefore, for some reason, when I gave up work and started becoming full-time carer for my uh mum, the idea popped into my head then. It's like, hmm, pictures are coming, it was coming about cooking and pictures. So then um that's how that came about, and plus for myself, when I look at it at a cookbook, I'll look at it and I'll read it and I'll look at the instructions, and if it's too complicated, forget it. This is why I don't even like cooking for that whole simple reason, is because it's too over overwhelming, and the instructions, yeah, the instructions are too over overwhelming, and plus I know people that aren't able to read, so therefore they aren't able to cook a um a meal. And if we want to try and change the way people eat, um, if we can show it in picture form and show them step by step, then they're able to uh cook a meal and then they can see what they can achieve and the skills that they gain along the way and the independence. So um, yeah, that's what I'm trying to um do now is get that moving and getting it out there so that it can benefit so many people. But also, my son also helped because it comes with colour-coded measuring cups, and he was the one that came up with that idea because he was living with us at the time, and I said, What do you think of this idea? And he said, Oh, that's great. And he automatically said, Oh, what about colour-coded measuring cups? And yeah, then the journey began.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

Yeah, and I mean that's so simple when you think about it, but it sometimes it's great when you've got other people involved, isn't it? Because they come from different spaces and bring in different ideas. Um that's it. Yeah. So okay, so how had you always done the cooking for the family previous to this and had you just muddled through, or did you just not really like doing it?

SPEAKER_00 6:48

And I didn't like cooking full stop and I'm muddled through. My kids don't really like my cooking. But anyway, my um my son he can cook, so that's okay. He's worked in the hospitality industry for many years, but he's not in it now, but he had been, so yeah, he's done cooking, so I hope uh he doesn't really like my cooking. So but now I really just have basic food, you know, meat and and veg. That's um that's good enough.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

Of course it is, and it doesn't have to be um, you know, caught on blur to be good food. It it yeah, no. So so uh within your family, because I know you've got grandchildren as well. Did you notice any um of your close family were struggling with um perhaps understanding instructions and things?

SPEAKER_00 7:45

Well, the eldest one she struggles um with learning uh difficulties. So I think numbers is one of her um her hard points, so she's not great with uh that. Um and compounding instructions that I'm not sure. There could be some point to it where she does struggle, but I'm not sure in which way. Uh and the middle one, well, she's obviously she's up there with the brains. She's quite she's quite intelligent, um, Jade is. I've uh seen that in uh in her. So she's quite she's good with numbers. She likes her numbers, so um, she's good with that. And then the youngest one, he has sensory um issues. So which isn't it?

unknown 8:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

See, all three have got different different things. So um who there whether that it comes stems back from me, I don't know. But and our family, not sure. Um, because we've got mental health. Um my mum had um bipolar. So um whether it's carried on in some type of way, not sure. Yeah, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:17

Yeah, so I mean on on a certain level, um all families have different dynamics and different challenges, don't they? And um and and that's all part of the process of being human, really. So did you have any guinea pigs with your cook with your with your recipes? You know, how did you decide what recipes to you or to do? And tell us about that process of guinea pig stuffing, you know.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

Well the initial when I first started it, um, I had a friend and she liked cooking, so we um trolled some of the recipes, and then we what we done is would troll them, and then we'll see and we'll go, well, no, that doesn't work, but that was sought out hard because we didn't have any of the color-coded measuring cups, we had nothing uh like that at all. So, but at least it got us to troll some uh recipes, and then um after I met um a lady, Kelly, she helped me. Um, we did cooking, she did my admin stuff because she's good on the computer and stuff, and she edited my photos and uh all sorts for me. She was brilliant. And uh we trolled uh we had then we uh measuring cups was a nightmare in itself to try and source them because we had to make make sure we had the same colours, we couldn't have different ones, so we had to try and explain that to um China, the people in there, and explain no, we need this and we need these colours ongoing. So that was a long challenge and a process, but we finally got there and we had to buy them in bulk.

SPEAKER_01 11:17

So yeah, how many dances have you got in a box?

SPEAKER_00 11:21

I got lost in the shed, stored in the shed. So uh so I got plenty of measuring cups, so um that finally uh we got onto that, we got that um going, but Kelly helped me in all different ways, and then not sure in uh and we published it in 2024. So that was in November 24 that we published uh had the launch of the cookbook, and so then it um yeah started, and then it's just been a journey trying to get it out there, getting people to know about it, um, and then I also got uh diagnosed with um I got myself tested, so uh I come back with um a mild intellectual uh disability. So um then I had to see if I could get any help through um NDIS uh funding to see if I can get any so that they can help me with my um business. Wow. And so I applied for it, I got it, and uh and because it was just new, I got you know X amount uh funding and um people that I went with first off, I changed, and now I've found the right people that are helping me to really move in my business and care about what I do and trying to help me move forward. And we sit down, I have you know, one-on-one with them, and we go through what we need to do in my business because a lot of it is a struggle for me with computer work. Even when I try and do my posts or talking, it's people don't realise it's a it's a struggle to come up with the words to be able to say what I really feel. I can say it in my head, but then when I come to talk at, it doesn't come out the way I want it. So that's a challenge in itself. But uh lately I've been practicing. Well, I've been doing videos on Facebook, so hopefully this will help me and I can build my confidence and I can start moving forward, and it's going to, you know, help me grow as a uh person.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

Yeah, and um as I said earlier, and I've I've known you um for a little while, and I can see the difference even in the way that you you come across much more confident in the way that you're talking about the different things that are going on for you. Um so going back to the recipes, what is it about a normal recipe book that makes it hard for someone like yourself to actually follow that? What's the difficulty in there? Because to me, I see a picture and then I see all of the ingredients and then I read what it says to do. So which particular area of that makes it really challenging?

SPEAKER_00 14:44

The reading part. Right. How they it's how they put it. Okay. So it's the information and how it's written.

SPEAKER_01 14:54

Is it too complicated? Is it too complicated, is it?

SPEAKER_00 14:57

Okay. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

All right. Yeah. Okay, so um all right. So what's been the I mean you're mentioning that um the cookbook started in 2024 or you launched it. Um how did you come up with the recipes? Why did you choose that particular range of recipes?

SPEAKER_00 15:19

Well, I well, I don't know. I just we I don't know, I just looked through and had a look at um recipes and we had to find things that weren't gonna take a long time to cook and didn't need too many ingredients because otherwise the steps would be too too long, and the book would be like massive, and we couldn't fit everything in there anyway, so that's why we've only done breakfast, uh, lunch, and the main meal. Right. So in my next book, I'd like to be able to have um soups this time, uh, main meal and sweets and desserts together, savory, something like that, that can all be uh dumb because you can't put too many in because with the steps and the pictures and yeah, and that it's just too much.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

Yes. Okay, so how um what what have you done to launch the book? What sorts of things did you have to overcome yourself that were frightening, challenging? Um, you just thought, no, there's no way I can do this. What would have been that?

SPEAKER_00 16:29

Well, I had my book coach and I had uh Kelly, so that was uh good because when I first started out, I had to I had no idea what I was doing. So um I knew a lady and SA woman, and I contacted her and asked her if he knew um anyone um that publishes books or whatever. So she uh got me a book coach, and then I've worked with um her right through the process until the book um launch and that uh helped me and it was just small steps, and then when we got we've got a community uh group uh near me and they do what it's called minor works. So um before the book launch uh they helped me go through all the steps and meetings, we went through all the steps on how we can publish this cookbook, what do we need, you know, from serviettes to drinks to uh the books to everything like that, um, all in step form. So that was uh good, but it still was challenging because I had to wrap my head around it all. And if I had to do it again, I it's still some of it still confuses for me. But that's just the way um I am. It's just like it's too much information, too overloaded for me. So that still gets me overwhelmed, but it was good to have that because that put her in okay, well, these are all the steps, this is what this person has to do, and we did that. Um the granddaughters were included, and uh eldest one she met people and greeted people, and so did um the uh youngest, uh the middle one. Um so they all had a help family hand. Yes. So they all had a helping hand, and uh, and it's good to see that, and I like to be able to do that, include them so they they can see what I do and see that you know you can achieve whatever you want. It it doesn't matter. No, it's just being consistent, persist and being persist persistent, yeah, and um keep moving with you know whatever they want to be able to achieve, you know, throughout their um lives.

SPEAKER_01 18:55

Yeah, is that um a fairly big um motivating thing for you? Is that something you really want to share with your with your family, perhaps more than wider world? And I know you want to help outside that space, but has the family been a fairly pivotable drive for you to show that?

SPEAKER_00 19:18

Yes uh for yeah, for my grandkids, I want to show them that that anything's impossible, uh nothing's impossible. Um, but I also want to get it out to community because I want to be able to change people's lives from eating because most of them eat you know nuggets and chips and things like that. I want to be able to change that for people to be able to eat nutritious, healthy meals, and if they can cook it themselves and see what they can gain and build skills and see how they've made this um meal, um and you know, you see the look on their faces is uh is gonna be amazing.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

Yeah. Well, you've done some cooking shows, haven't you? Well yeah, so okay, but from the ones that you've done, what has been the reaction to you right there and then in that space?

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Um well the one when we did at the library, so there was a young lad with um with his carer, so they cooked the hamburgers and he I don't know, at that moment he was excited and he really enjoyed cooking that hamburger and you know and eating it because he uh managed to be able to cook it himself, you know, by following the um recipe. Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:48

So that in itself proves to you that it's a very worthwhile thing to be doing.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

Yeah. Okay, let's go back to this whole um notion of showing people um, and you know, I guess we all do this on different levels. Well, hopefully we do, um, of you can do anything you want to do. Because I mean, I don't know about you, we grew I grew up in a world where that wasn't really the case. Girls did stuff and boys did stuff, and but now that's sort of hopefully a lot better. But yeah, let's go back to I want to know what drove you to go and do the marathon in New York. What the hell made you want to go and do that?

SPEAKER_00 21:29

Well all I was doing was scrolling on my phone and this um advert, this um um advert, we might as well call it an advert, whatever, uh came up on my Facebook feed. And I thought, then I thought, mm, and it made me think about about it. And I thought, oh, I'm gonna do this. And um, yeah, I did it with Anna Lipt, and she's based here in Adelaide, so I started training um with uh with her. And she had a program, so I followed her program and I met um a few times with training and that, but most of it was training on my own, but had some catch-ups and that, and then um and then yeah, had to basically train on my own, and I was sort of consistent, and then I wasn't, you know, fall in a heap and everything else, but I I managed to get there, um, and I had a lot of support with the people there because it was so overwhelming uh for me. I was a big challenge for me, just navigating everything, getting through everything, you know, going to a different country. And give us some examples of how that was hard. Oh, um, well, navigating, getting uh there, knowing oh yeah, well, directions. I I sort of could lose myself in New York, um, because the the way they do their street signage and stuff is uh a bit because I was with a lady and we're walking back from somewhere and we sort of got lost lost, but we f found our way, but I don't know. And then I guess the train too with that, I was with people, so that was okay, but I think I would have got myself lost. I would have, I don't know where I would have in some places because you had to figure out where you had to go. But I mean I'm glad I didn't have to think too much about that because I was with people to guide me because if I had to do it on my own, I would have had to really stop and I had to would have had to really concentrate, and I think the overwhelm would have got um for me um as well.

SPEAKER_01 23:57

So it was good that I had a lot of a lot of so tell me, um what was the biggest thing that you felt when you crossed that finish line?

SPEAKER_00 24:10

Oh relief. It's like oh I finished it because there was two parts in that New York uh marathon. There was this bridge, I can't remember what the name of it, and it took for ages, and I was swearing and cursing and thinking, is this bridge ever going to end? Oh, oh no, and then uh and then we get to Central Park, and that's where we finish in Central Park. When it aren't still uh walking along, and I'm thinking, where's because uh I thought uh once we've got to Central Park, it might not be too far away. Well no, and I'm thinking, where's this bloody finish line? It has to be here somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 24:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:58

Oh, yeah, I was swearing and cursing, and then once uh and uh that year that I did the marathon, my friend passed away, and I could feel her all ru all all the way. Something I haven't felt before, but um I could feel her uh with me, um pushing me on. Uh yeah, so that was a bit of an emotional one too. Yeah. Because I could yeah, I could feel her.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

And was that something that just came to you in that moment or had you carried her really with you subconsciously?

SPEAKER_00 25:35

Um I think it calm I could I think I could feel her like on the journey with me to with the um marathon and then running, I could really feel her. So um but yeah, so that was an amazing um experience.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

Yeah. Well, I could imagine, and it's not something everybody does, and I just think, wow, that that to me, for someone knowing you and also listening to you around those challenges, huge, huge um moment of trusting yourself that you can go and do that, regardless of all those other things you know are gonna happen. You still trust yourself enough to get on that plane and go and do that. So kudos to you.

SPEAKER_00 26:26

Yes, especially when I knew there'd be a lot of challenges, directions, yes, uh uh, and just the anxiety of it all, too. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:37

Well, I mean, and you've taken that into this cookbook. I can see that there's parallels in here with the cookbook. Again, you've you were with your mum, you've had this idea, and you've gone with it, um, not knowing really what that was going to look like. And you've and you've jumped the hurdles as they've come along. So, you know, there's a very big similarity between the two things that you've done that have been pretty big and major.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

Yes, yes, and all of it, you know, through the learning, and a lot of it went over the top of my head, and I just had to slowly go with the flow because that's all I can do to be able to take it in and try and understand it as I go along. Because yeah, that's all I can do sometimes is okay. Well, I might not understand what you're going on about, but we'll have to wait until a situation comes up and then just go along to go, okay, well, is that how we do it? But then sometimes I forget.

SPEAKER_01 27:40

Yeah, and you know, I think that that's you've figured out how it is that you learn and the speed at which you learn, so you know yourself where you put the brakes on and where you can go ahead. And also, would you say that asking a lot of questions is a very big part of this whole process?

SPEAKER_00 28:00

Well, yes, I've got to ask questions, and now that I've got the support with me, I can ask questions and um you know, and people can find out for me and then try and explain things in a simpler way for me so that I understand, not all this jargon because it just goes straight over the top of my head.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

Yeah, yeah, I totally get that too. Okay, so there was something I wanted to ask you. Um okay, so you were talking earlier about you did very quickly mention another cookbook. How's that going? And when do you perceive that might be um a reality for you?

SPEAKER_00 28:47

Well, I think I need to concentrate on the first one, but I want to get together the second one. We've got to start getting this first one out there and selling uh that, but in the meantime, I can just gather recipes uh together. Um, I've got a few in mine uh for the main meals and a few for the um uh soups. So um, and then uh I'm still tossing up what I'm gonna do for sweets and that yet. Not sure, but I still want something healthy and might chuck in a naughty one, but you know, of course you do that's it. So um, even though uh you know I want mainly healthy foods, but I mean you have to sometimes be naughty.

SPEAKER_01 29:41

So well, I don't think desserts are necessarily um unhealthy, it's just if you have them all the time, and it's like everything, isn't it? It's all about you know balancing it out. How yes, just just before I do forget it, um where can people get your book? How much does it cost? And does it come with the um accessories or are they separate or tell tell us how that looks?

SPEAKER_00 30:06

So the book comes uh the book and the spoons come together. Okay. So when you purchase that and uh the book's uh $50, and yeah, I can either go to my uh website at www.shazeasyrecipes.au or you can find me on uh Facebook um Chaz's Easy Recipes or uh Instagram. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:36

Yeah and you don't have one there on your desk to show us, do you? No, I didn't know. That's all right. Yeah. In the kitchen. Well, that's where it should be. Um so what message now I'm gonna ask you this first. How have you celebrated uh the success of actually having put this together and got it out there? The cookbook, I mean.

SPEAKER_00 31:05

I don't really, I know um I'm a bit naughty. I don't really um celebrate my wins or successes. I just go, I'm not just going, oh yeah, and then I'll keep going like day in, day out, normal stuff, but I've got to learn to stop and start uh really um celebrating my wins, even the small ones. So I was thinking, um, I've gotta like write a little gratitude thing, put in my jar uh about the wins, just doing the walking and that, and I've been consistent, you know, for two weeks. I think starting to come up to three weeks. I'm thinking I don't even normally do that, and I've been talking for the two, three weeks every day, so you know that's a challenge in its uh self trying to come up with stuff, you know, to talk about. So um, so yeah, so I'm um really happy with that and the way I'm going um going with that.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

Okay, and I do think it's important that you um celebrate these wins. Um and even if it's just a pat on the back and say, Well done, girl, because you know, a lot of us can think up ideas, but it's one thing to do that, but it's another thing to follow through on it, like you have done it. You know, you followed through on the marathon, you followed through on this, you've followed through on all of this from your lived experiences from your when you were younger, and what you bought through your marriage, and what you've bought through with the grandkids. So it's easy not to do that, but there's something in you that's made this happen for you. What do you think some of the core ingredients have been in your character that have made this happen?

SPEAKER_00 33:00

I think determination and resilience. Okay, that's uh I think has gotten me um through. Um and I don't know, we I remember as a kid we spent a lot of time with my uncle. We used to go camping um with him, so maybe he had a bit of an influence on us um as well, so that might have shaped us as well. So he was um health conscious too, and he liked walking and keeping fit, so maybe he was a part of that as well, with not really realizing, but maybe looking back at it now, he maybe was a part of that, yeah. And um now I I mean I've always liked my sport as a kid anyway, and that's just followed through, and I think because he's been always health conscious, so I've guess I've wanted to keep myself fit and healthy, and that's what I'm doing now.

SPEAKER_01 34:01

Yeah, and and that's an important part of it, isn't it? Because keeping yourself fit and healthy helps mentally as well, helps us um uh feel better in ourselves and and all those sorts of things. So just before we close, what would be one of the um what would be something that you'd like to share with other people who struggle with things like yourself? You know, there's lots of different avenues of neurodiversity, but from your particular perspective, what would you like to share with someone who would be listening or watching this um podcast?

SPEAKER_00 34:36

Well, what I'd like to tell uh let people know is that if you've got a dream or an idea, follow it, keep going. I've had all these learning uh struggles and overwhelm and wanted to give up at times, but I kept going. Just think on what you can do if you just keep going and take that idea uh to reality because you can do it.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

Yeah. But did you do all of this on your own? Do you think it's important to have um other other people involved?

SPEAKER_00 35:12

I've learned that you need uh support because I couldn't do everything on my own because it would be too overwhelming, and I wouldn't have had this cookbook out at all. So I've had the right people come in at the right time to help me to get where I need to be. So um I'm you know now looking at um cook live cooking demos, one-on-ones, and workshops, uh school holiday programs, aged care, all of that I'm looking uh into, and yeah, hopefully I can get something um out of that and teach people how to use my cookbook.

SPEAKER_01 35:55

Absolutely. And what's the one thing that still frightens you the most about doing any of this?

SPEAKER_00 36:02

Uh is still people and conversations and talking. So I'm booting my skills up on that with the great supports that I have uh behind me and with me helping me.

SPEAKER_01 36:21

Excellent. Yeah, because we all need that cheer squad, don't we? That team behind us. Yeah. Um, and and from that I I take it that what you might be suggesting also is W trying to ask for help.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

Oh, yes, and uh yes, and if you're struggling, just ask uh ask for help because that uh that helps a lot. It does, yeah, because you've got people coming in with a different idea and might be able to explain it, you know, um a different way that way that you understand.

SPEAKER_01 36:56

Yeah, yeah. Well, it's been great talking with you today, Sharon. And I mean, we could talk for a lot longer around a lot of of this, but um thank you so much for sharing um this journey with us and um looking forward to seeing the second cookbook coming out. You could become another one of our famous Australian cook heroines. There's been quite a few over the years. Yes, and that would be awesome, wouldn't it? Well, certainly will. It would be. Um, and for any of you who are listening and watching this podcast with myself and Sharon, you can um find her contact details at the bottom of the podcast here. Um, you can find Sharon on Facebook and Instagram under Sharon's Shazer's Easy Recipes. She's not hard to find, it's it's there. And help out and get this Aussie cook lady out there on the scene and purchase one of her lovely books with the matching uh cups and spoons. And looking forward to another podcast with another wonderful guest coming up soon. But thank you, Sharon, for sharing with us today. It's been amazing and um lots of success, and I wish you well with uh the new cookbook and 2026.

SPEAKER_00 38:14

And thank you very much, Jennifer, for uh inviting me onto your uh podcast.

SPEAKER_01 38:20

Oh, you're more than welcome. It's been a real pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

Thanks again. Thank you.