Sip Outside The Box | Serena Harkey | Barrels and Roots

In this episode of Barrels and Roots, I sat down with Serena Harkey, Food and Beverage Director for the Cowboys Club in Frisco, Texas, to talk about wine in a way that feels real, approachable, and actually fun. 

We got into how she went from working in barbecue and boutique wine shops to building a serious career in hospitality, and why wine is so much more than a luxury product. We talked about wine culture in Texas versus California, the rise of chilled red wine, why Riesling deserves more respect, and how people can stop feeling intimidated and start figuring out what they actually like. One of my favorite parts of this conversation was hearing Serena explain that every bottle has a story, not just because of branding, but because of the people, farming, weather, decisions, and craft behind it. We also got into champagne, rosé, Pinot Noir, Australia as an underrated wine region, food pairings, and why wine should be about curiosity, connection, and enjoyment, not showing off. 

If you’ve ever wanted to understand wine without all the pressure and pretension, this is a great episode to jump into.

What was the first wine, or even food and drink pairing, that made you stop and think ”okay, now I get it.”?

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Well, if you had to give one simple reason people should love wine without any fancy language, w what would you say?

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Gosh. I mean, it's delicious. But I just because it's so unique. Like you'll you'll never get the same thing twice. You get to have so much fun with it. And you get to just enjoy it with your friends. That's the whole point of it. Is you know, being able to explore flavor profiles and food pairing is so fun, right? Understanding salt, fat, acid heat. And then how do I find a wine that goes into that niche? Like, am I looking for acid? Am I looking for more weight? Am I looking for sugar? You know, it to me that is the fun part of it. Like fall into it because you're a really curious person that loves to eat and drink. And how can I do it the best way possible?

SPEAKER_03 1:06

Welcome everyone to the Barrels and Ritz Podcast. I am your host, Sean Trace, uh, and I have an awesome guest with me today. Would you like to tell people who you are and a little bit about what you do? And I'm gonna turn off that screen on if someone behind me.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Yeah, so my name is Serena Harkey. I am the food and beverage director for the Cowboys Club in Frisco, Texas. Um, it's a mind-blowing, amazing career. Um, having come from food and beverage basically my entire life, um, to be able to align that with such an insane organization like the Dallas Cowboys. Just it became a career that I didn't think that I could even dream of. Um it's really amazing to have that alignment. Um, and to be able to kind of fuel those two passions together is pretty incredible every day.

SPEAKER_03 2:02

That's awesome. You know, it and it's interesting because one of the things that I was looking at this list of um it was like interesting because it showed regions of the world and what alcohol people prefer in different regions. Yeah. And it's actually painful for me because I'm in Asia, which is not a wine region per se. You know, people have wine here and enjoying wine, but I, you know, I wish at times that I was in a region that had more wine. And so it's fun like that. But I mean, there's still great stuff that I can get a hold of. But like, talk to me about where you're at. Are what what's the wine culture like there near you?

SPEAKER_00 2:40

Yeah, so I spent, I should say, like I spent the last 10 years in the Bay Area. So I came from in a really um diversive wine culture background where people are interested in wines that are such more esoteric and intringing and you know, orange wine and Rieslings, and people were willing to have a lot more fun and explore. And uh coming to Texas, I would say it's not that people aren't curious, um, but there definitely is kind of a standard where people really do love, you know, the tried and true, Napa Cabernet, Bordeaux. People are um exploring Pasta Robles quite a bit more. Nice. Um a lot more children's wine drinkers here, which I like was not my norm, but I'm now even realizing is becoming a norm in the world. So Texas, you know, I'm gonna say trendsetters there.

SPEAKER_03 3:41

I love that. I love it. You know, it it if we can I I love it when you get trendsetters because they're people that are people that are weak willing to mix things up. I, you know, I I'm generally pretty traditional and uh with my coffee and things like that. Uh, and there's this trend uh like in in Vietnam of egg coffee and salt coffee. And I was like, what is this egg coffee? And I was like, this is this is this is impossible, this is evil, this is not right, this is should never be and I drank it. I was like, dear goodness gracious, that is amazing. It is the flavor, egg coffee, right? I didn't think it's so wild, and they they they they they whip up an egg, so it's kind of got this eggnoggy vibe to it, like and it's just frothy and lovely and very, very umami flavors. It's wild.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

I can imagine it being like very creamy and silky in texture.

SPEAKER_03 4:44

It is, and you you're so cool. It's it's very different, and you know, but the thing is, is it's like you have to have people that are willing to try things that kind of expand the box, you know. But uh I I I I don't know. It's interesting to see how that affects the wine community. What what do you see as trends that you see emerging in the wine?

SPEAKER_00 5:06

So I definitely see chilled red wine. That is actually really going to be a thing, but I don't think that it's that new either, right? You know, Close Jolet all day long chilled red wine, but seeing it a lot more with bigger style of wine drinkers. Um, so chilled Napa cabs, we're loving it. Like, great. I'm here for it. So I think chilled red wine is definitely going to be a thing. Um, I do think esoteric is dropping off a little bit. Like I think orange wine, that phase maybe kind of fading out. Um but outside of that, I think maybe maybe I'm uh just like too passionate about it, but like I still stand by Riesling, still like being a thing. It's it's not fading out anytime soon.

SPEAKER_03 6:01

I love that. Well, I want to start simple. Like, why going back a bit? Why do you love wine? Like, how did you get into this? You know, it doesn't not even per professionally, but like personally, what got you started down this path?

SPEAKER_00 6:16

So um my like very first job was a barbecue restaurant. And I obviously yeah, it was awesome. Cow print button-downs, choreograph dances. It was like Disneyland, but for barbecue. It was awesome. I I I just I I can envision it and it sounds awesome. It was awesome. It was the place to work in high school, Big Bubba's Bad Barbecue.

SPEAKER_03 6:43

However, when I was 19 years old, the name was Big Bubba's Bad Barbecue.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

Big Bubba's Bad Barbecue.

SPEAKER_03 6:52

Wow, that sounds awesome.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

Right, I loved it. Like, I will say I worked there for nine years because I loved it and the people that I worked with so much that I couldn't leave. So I was doing French fine dining and big bubba's bad barbecue at the same time just because it was such a great place to work. But uh when I was 19 years old, my sister and I got a job at this little boutique wine store in Pasarobles. And obviously I'm 19 years old, so I have no idea what I'm talking about. And the owner was amazing. Her name's Jan Manny, and she just completely took me under her wing because I was just asking a ton of questions because I didn't know anything. But I also, you know, from a young server perspective, was looking at the price point of what I'm selling and thinking I could make a lot of money if I know how to talk about this. So that's where I just initially dove into it. But it was the understanding and just being so impressed by this is an agriculture product. Like it's something that is boots on the ground, very, you know, raw, dirty. People work so hard night and day to create this product and it become this luxury product. So I was just really curious about that whole process and just kind of want to like taking something that's just so raw and so dirty, and people just see that end result of what's in the bottle and being worth hundreds to thousands of dollars to me was so insane. And then wanting to understand the different well, why why is this a box wine? And why, why is this$10,000 for this one bottle? Um, so I it just you know made me incredibly curious. And then um, I was very fortunate to grow up in Pastor Robles. So then I got to know these winemakers and these owners and understand their background and having the connection to the people that made the product was incredibly, I would say like lucky. Like I feel spoiled growing up in my career there.

SPEAKER_03 9:14

That's awesome. I I I love that, you know, I love that question of what makes a a box wine versus what makes a uh a$10,000 wine too. Because one of the things too, I um last couple years ago, I took some leather making classes, and I love doing stuff fun with my hands. I actually made my this wallet. I made this wallet the other day, and I love it.

SPEAKER_00 9:39

That is so cool.

SPEAKER_03 9:40

Yeah, I made my own wallet. My daughter made keychains because I took her to classes with me, and she made her own wallet. We went back and made her a wallet, and it was like this big, nice, cool thing, and she's carrying it around and putting money in it. I love it. So awesome, right? But one of the things too is like I got started on this path a couple years ago because my wife was joking with me that she wanted an expensive bag. She's like, I want a Birkin bag, and I was like, Yeah, good luck.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

You know, it's a lot of things that you know, we all want a Birkin, right?

SPEAKER_03 10:11

But I I I looked up and I was like, all right, well, maybe I can save up for this. And I looked up the prices of Birkin bags, and I was like, all right, that's gonna take me a bit of time.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

Yeah, because even to even be eligible to buy the one burk, you're not you're not saving up for the birkin. You gotta buy a lot more for freaky, even maybe get a birken.

SPEAKER_03 10:34

It's wild. It's wild with that, but I found some right, that's that's so true. I found someone who trained in Air Maze. He trained with the Airmace people to make bags. He trained in Paris and he lives here in Vietnam and he makes his own bags now. And I met him and I was like, uh, can you teach me to make stuff? And he's like, Yeah, what do you want to make? I was like, uh Birkenbag. He's like, that's too hard. I was like, a Tiffany bag? And so I made my wife a Tiffany bag. It was so cool. 20 classes. I went there for 20 different days for four hours each day, and I learned why this wallet I have is much less expensive than that other. And it was just the the craftsmanship, the level, the steps that it took, even to create the handle, the number of times I made a mistake, the different tools, the specialty tools you need, the special, like cutting out the leather, like the basic first cut of all of the leather is so hard, you know. And it's like this very expensive leather. And I was like, I looked at them and I was like, and he's like, This is the spot on your piece of leather that you can use. And I was like, what happens if I mess up? And he's like, uh, how much money do you have? I was like, oh, oh, it's one of those types of situations. And I was like, okay, guess I am not gonna mess up. And I had to be very, very careful. And I he had me practice on other stuff. Like I practiced for four classes just cutting leather before he let me anywhere near anything that was actually gonna be used. And it was just wild, the technique and the style. And when I finished, you know, after all those classes, I look back at it and I still look at it. And I my wife has had many purses that have come and gone and they fall apart and get destroyed. Not that one. That purse just endures, and it's been almost eight years now. I made it before, but no, seven years now. I made it seven years ago, and she uses it all the time. And she's had other purses that she bought and she wore used them for a year and a half, and they were just gone, fall apart, things broke. Not that one. It just lasts. And there's something to be, and when I sit there and think about that, and I say and I apply that over to wine, it's the craft, it's the little things, it's the people and the you know, that bag was so awesome because of Laum, the guy I studied with. But Laum went and studied with these master artisans in Paris, you know, and then they studied with, and there's this tradition that's also part of it. But until you start getting into this, it's hard to understand that.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

Totally. But that is beautiful. Like your wife, I can only get like your wife probably just looks at that bag every day and has a whole level of appreciation for it that a Birken will never come close to.

SPEAKER_03 13:25

That's what I said. You know, I I I told her that the um the other people that have like she, my wife's a celebrity singer in Vietnam, and all these ladies were like flexing, like, I've got this bag. And they're like, it's one of like 200. And I looked at my wife, I was like, Yours is one of one. Cause I'm not doing I'm not I'm not doing that again. That was really hard. It's really hard.

SPEAKER_00 13:47

But you could if you wanted to, but I could if I wanted to. And it's like you have to repair this as well.

SPEAKER_03 13:52

One of the little like lucky charm pieces of it.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

So that's what, yeah, you could just keep making her the AirMez like trinket.

SPEAKER_03 13:59

Yep. 100%. 100%. But I wanted to ask you this because like it it reminds me of wine, you know. But there's there's something for everyone. And like I like the wallet that I have, it's more low-key. It did not take me 20 days, but you know, there's a wine for everyone, you know? Totally. And talk to me about how people can go about finding the wine for them.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

I think it's asking a ton of questions, it's understanding what your palate is. Like to me, it's you know, build your foundation, start inexpensive, right? And understand the flavor profiles, the textures that you look for. I I think about when I'm working the floor as a song, like I'm asking, what do you like? You know, and I'm not I'm not thinking about price points, I'm not thinking about winery names or anything like that. I'm not thinking about brand recognition. I'm thinking about what does this person actually enjoy? And then that Rolodex is the it's the flavor profile Rolodex that's working in my head of what's on the menu to understand this is what they will actually enjoy. Um, and then the favorite, all-time favorite is when they say like it's it's always this, I hate Chardonnay. Tell me why you hate Chardonnay. And then I'm gonna find you, you're gonna learn that you actually can love Chardonnay. It's just all about the right one. So I think you know, being curious and exploring starting entry level and taking the time to just understand flavor profile is everything because that's how you learn to work your way up strategically. And um, and it's not it's too easy to borrow too much money on something you want to enjoy, and life's too short.

SPEAKER_03 16:01

Right. I love that. And I think that you know, it is about that experience of just getting to know things, of experiencing them, of trying them out. You know, I I remember some of my early wine experiences. I I didn't know what I was getting. And I was just like, we are gonna buy this and it's red, and we're gonna take it home. And we tasted it, and it was like, this one is good. And I took another bone, this one is not. And I was trying to figure out why. And it was like, you know, well, it has this thing that makes my mouth feel funny and dry. And I was like, you know, my friend's like, all right, well, that might be this, you know, and or what is this? And it's like one of the things too was like it was so helpful for me that I had a friend who was um a self-proclaimed wine snob, and yet he was, you know, trained, trained himself just by drinking a lot of wine. And what was interesting is that, you know, luckily I grew up in the Napa Valley too. So it was like I got to be around my friend who just trained himself. Yeah, he was like, you know, we were able to go and see things. But one of the things that was like awesome was like I I love that you too. That you're talking about like the wine industry is full of like farmers, you know, and and it seems super fancy now, but really it's like a very it's not, it's this down-to-earth industry that has you know these layers of things on top. And one of the things that for me was so wonderful about growing up in Napa, and when I moved there, you know, in high school, I got to see why it's not intimidating. I think that's one of the challenges for people. Wine feels intimidating because there's a lot of fancy names. You don't get that with beer, you don't get all of these fancy names that like leave you feeling like overwhelmed. Like if you pronounce it wrong, you're gonna be embarrassing yourself. But wine does have that sometimes, you know.

SPEAKER_00 17:53

Well, literally it has, you know, it really is this perception of a luxury good.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

And it has and it has every right to be that when you think of the time and energy, literally blood, sweat, and tears that go into making it. It's down and dirty. It is smarting.

SPEAKER_03 18:12

Yeah. And and I I love it too because it doesn't have to be intimidating. There's a lot that goes into it, but you know, if you can, if you want to learn, there are people out there that would be happy to help you, you know, happy to kind of steer you down that path.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

Absolutely. I think that's the biggest thing too. Um is it's not a journey that you take on your own. And there's so much to miss. I think with studying, like if somebody's diving into actually studying wine, you have to talk about it. You have to join tasting groups, you have to get out and explore. Um, and the like the hard part of that too is especially if you're going out and talking to winemakers, you're going to hear so many conflicting stories and so many conflicting reasons why. Um, because everybody's decision-making process is different. But, you know, that's also the beautiful thing about it is, you know, when we talk Napa specifically, like we're gonna talk about Cabernet from oh gosh, name of vineyard. Um from let's say Spring Mountain, right? Napa from or Cabernet from Spring Mountain. But this guy's making it and this guy's making it, and they're two completely different wines in that bottle. However, if you become uh, you know, tried and true like actual taster, you will taste those two different wines and know exactly where it comes from because they're still going to embody this sense of place. And that's so magical. But then you dive into why do these two wines, same grape from the same vineyard, same soil, same climate, how are they tasting completely differently at the same time? It's amazing. Like you have to be curious, or else you'll be frustrated. And even then, it can be frustrating, but it's so fun. And you and you have to do it with others, you have to talk about it constantly.

SPEAKER_03 20:25

I remember once uh I was went somewhere and I had met this guy, and he uh and I had this conversation with him, and then afterwards he's like, Dude, you just feel so familiar. Like, I feel like I know you for some reason. And then suddenly I was like, Well, you know, talk. We started talking, and suddenly he realized he knew my brother. And he hadn't placed, he's like, dude, I should have placed the name. You guys have the same name, like same family name, and has like, yeah, but he's like, but it's not that. What are you reminded me wasn't the look, it was just this vibe. You guys have this similar vibe, you know. And and it's interesting because we grew up of any of the people in the world, only my brother and I have the most similar shared experiences, you know, and and you know, they separated at a point. Now we're very different individuals because we went on to live our separate lives, but up to a certain point we had these same shared experiences. But then life kind of happens, and that's the kind of the beauty of wine. Like I lived uh just outside of St. Helena up in the mountains, which is the Howell Mountain area. I, you know, I lived up on that Howell Mountain area, and it's interesting because it's so different from this other region. You see it in the people, but like the wine and the soil has that difference as well. It's just so interesting and fascinating how you can have two things that, but there's also this same that are so different, but also this similar characteristic underneath. So I'm I won't geek out right now.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

It's but it's so easy to do.

SPEAKER_03 22:03

Right. Well, do you do you remember the first time a wine really clicked for you? Where you thought, like, oh, okay, I get it. Talk to me about that.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

Yes. And it again, it wasn't anything crazy expensive, but it was uh Michel Chaputier Belle Rouche. And it was uh while like still fairly entry-level wine, it had balance. And that was where I finally like it clicked for me. No, flavor, acid, the tannin, like was all kind of integrating and coming, and it was the first time where I wasn't just like tasting because I was like, I didn't get it at that point. Like what Pinot capline and all so confusing, and this one's light, and this one's like really stringent, and you know, going through that process, and it was the first time it really clicked like, oh, okay. Like this is all coming together very seamlessly, but I was also like I was lucky to start my wine journey with intention.

SPEAKER_03 23:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

Because I was intentionally studying and trying to understand it. But that was the first wine where it really clicked. And what was great about it in that moment, too, when it clicked, is I wasn't studying. It was one of the first times where I was like, I'm just actually gonna sit and enjoy a glass of wine. And then I was like, oh, hello, let's open up another bottle. I get this.

SPEAKER_03 23:42

I had um there was an interesting thing. I I I know what you're talking about. I remember, I honestly have not really been a cab person. But last month I had the most balanced, awesome cab that I've ever had. It was just all of these different things at the same time. And it just spoke to me. And I have not had a cab speak to me in a long time. And it was just like, it's interesting because I think that that's something that's so fascinating to me because it's not something that happens with other spirit. I mean, maybe cocktails that you get a cocktail that just hits it, you know, like connects. But, you know, I think that one of the things that's interesting to me is that, you know, sometimes I'll try a wine and I'll just be like, hmm, I love my wine, but there are sometimes wines that you just like that, that, that right there that's special in a special way.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

Yes. And I think even like on the other side of that, it's something that I do quite often and I have to remind myself of is uh, and I won't name names, but like I'll see like a producer in a vineyard, and I go, no, like don't like it, don't like it. And then I have to remind myself, you know what? It's been five years since you've had that. And you have to like remind yourself that you know, these producers and these vineyards are constantly evolving. It's not going to be unless it's, you know, a lower level wine where it's meant to taste the same year after year, but there's so much evolution, and it's not the same wine five years down the road, right? They're they're not making it, they may be making it in the same style, but what mother nature is giving them is completely different. And so I even have to remind myself don't always knock it. Go back and retry it. Maybe you maybe they hired a different winemaker, maybe they're farming differently. You know, maybe it's just a better vintage than that one that you had five years ago and were turned off by. So I do have to also go back and try wines that I did not like previously to see if anything has changed too.

SPEAKER_03 26:03

It's it's very much this present moment. I I that I love that about wine, is I I actually don't drink a lot, but when I do, I try to be super intentional about what I'm experiencing and just be super present because I I've had the opposite happen as well. Like wines that were really good once, and I was like, I have to go back and get that wine, and I go buy it a second time, and that bottle just doesn't impress me the way this other one did. And I it's fascinating for that. So it's just like I feel I feel like a little bit of it is like it's like those scratcher tickets that you get, and you're like, all right, let's see what we're gonna get, you know? And so there's always a surprise with that, and I I I love that part.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

Oh, yes, and that like to that can also be so disappointing. I remember I was um gosh, was it last year, I think, or the year before, I was in Bordeaux for en premiere. And again, I was yeah, it was oh like I swear it was. If anybody wants to invite me back, I'll be there. But no, it was a mind-blowing experience, but there was, you know, one chateau that I was so excited to go to, like one of my absolute favorites, and it was the most disappointing tasting that I had the entire trip. And I was imagining, I was mad. It was like, you have got to be like, this is the one that I was looking forward to, and it just didn't deliver, and it is such a great reminder of vintage matters, yeah. Vintage matters so so much. And producers that I did not think that I was gonna be blown away away by, they also told me things that they were doing differently and was so impressed. It it was a very cool experience, but yeah, wine is evolving constantly. The way people farm, the way they make the wine, the barrels, just every everything matters.

SPEAKER_03 28:07

Yeah. Well, and that's like that's actually one of the things that keeps me interested and excited about wine after all these years. It's like because it's always changing. You know, you don't see areas that are so traditional, have such long traditions, and have been doing things the same way for thousands of years, but then suddenly are like, now we're gonna innovate, you know, and it's beautiful like that.

SPEAKER_00 28:29

Yes. You will never know everything in this industry. It is impossible.

SPEAKER_03 28:35

What keeps you excited after years in the industry?

SPEAKER_00 28:40

I think for me, so much of it has to do with uh honestly, people, the relationships. Like I I love um, I'm just a very curious person. So I love getting to meet winemakers and understanding their decision-making process, especially in the vineyard. Uh to me, that's probably the most fascinating and understanding how they look at Tawar and you know, and soil, all of these things that to me it is so fascinating. The people behind it, to me, that that's the big connection. Um, and I like I think about that with specifically with my job now. I could care less about football. But now, like I know some of these players, I know those coaches, and I'm watching that game, and I'm like, come on, brother. Like, and it's it's again, it's that connection that you have to something that makes all of the difference. So, you know, tasting wines and talking about them and and having an additional connection, knowing who's behind it, to me, like that is the most exciting thing.

SPEAKER_03 29:52

Yeah, it it is something when you have that. And one of the things, like I know a lot of the marketing, you know, that goes in the wine, I'm like, every bottle's a story. But people don't realize every bottle is a story. Like there, there is so much going on to each and the every one of the bottles, you know? And it's like that's one of the things that separates out wine for me so much. And I'm not I'm not throwing any shade at craft cocktails or or beer or anything, but like when you know, when a beer maker is making the beer, they're aiming for the standard of like like keeping things the same, you know, every year they want it to be consistency, yeah. They they they really want the consistency, and but with wine, there is this, I wouldn't say flair, but a little bit, you know, that people have that creativity. I mean, obviously they want to make sure that a Pinot tastes like a Pinot, but you know, where do you take that Pinot? How do you draw it out? How do you play with it? You know, same thing for a cab or Merlot.

SPEAKER_00 30:57

I I think the other piece to that too is like appreciating what Mother Nature provided you.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

There's only so much control you can have in the vineyard. You know, you can take so many preventative measures to protect against wind and sun and birds and all of these things, but you can't fight rain. You can't fight the sun. You know, there's only so much that you can do. And trying to, I think, respect that and embody like what this is what Mother Nature just gave us this year. And but also still find that balance of being true to your brand. And like, you know, our our consumers have an expectation of what to get from us. And, you know, there's a really beautiful dance, a beautiful balance there. Uh so I love, you know, the idea of what respecting Mother Nature gives you. And you know, talking to winemakers that really believe that and are passionate about it.

SPEAKER_03 31:57

You know, and I I love that. And I think that I the winemakers that I've been interviewing are some of the most cool people I've met. And like they are always talking about there's this balance between what they want and what the wine wants and what nature wants. And it's like those things are not always aligning, but they have to sit there and just figure out how to shape it, but not be intrusive. So, you know, like we're gonna shape how this wine grows, we're gonna shape its development, but at the same time, it wants certain things.

SPEAKER_00 32:28

And it's going to push back.

SPEAKER_03 32:30

It is, it was gonna push back, and they have to sit there. I had a winemaker on last night, and she was like, it's like having a teenage kid. You know, you are you really want it to go a certain way, but it's gonna be like, I don't want to, mom. You still have to balance that and work with it and go, all right, I know you don't want to, but we're gonna get you there. We're gonna help get you there.

SPEAKER_00 32:53

Yeah, gentle nudges.

SPEAKER_03 32:55

Right. Yeah, gentle. Um, it you know, someone getting in to wine new, if they only drink, if they needed a starter, like a starter wine, what do you think are some of the easiest gateway varietals to get people into the world of wine?

SPEAKER_00 33:16

Rose, just rose, just so easy drinking, so approachable, it's very hard to find roses that you know aren't for everyone, right? So I think rose is probably like my go-to gateway drug when it comes to wine. Rose, and then if we're gonna be a little bit more complex and have more fun, you know, there's champagne, like the or just the entire world of sparkling, right? Understanding what's the difference between prosecco, kava, champagne, like that is the ultimate test of like price comparison and understanding like why a prosecco is so much different than a champagne, and why am I paying so much more on the difference? So I always think that that is a great um if you're gonna analyze wine in that light, I think that's a great place to start is a world of sparkling. But if you're going into it for pleasure, for enjoyment, I say kick off with rose all day long.

SPEAKER_03 34:22

I love that. Rose is so easy, it's just so mellow, it's so forgiving. You know, I I've very rarely had a rose that wasn't just fun and surprising in some way.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

And it should be fun. Right? At the end of the day, it should all be fun. It it can be so serious, and studying is so like I'm just like sweating, taking tests, and you know, it's it's it's hard and life's hard enough. But you know, this should be fun when you think about the overall purpose of what wine is. It's it's meant to be enjoyed, it's meant to be pleasurable and you know, comforting, all of these things. And if it ain't that, then you shouldn't do anything that ain't that.

SPEAKER_03 35:06

Right. If it's not fun, like what are you even doing at that point in time? Because, you know, it should be. And it's like, I think that that's one of the things people forget. Like, the wine experience is an experience that's meant to be shared, it's meant to be enjoyed, and there's no wrong way to do it. Like, I'm sure there are ways that bring out the flavor of the wine more. I remember once we went out to um my friends and I were in college and we took a bottle of wine with us and we went out and had Korean barbecue. If someone was like, You can't do Korean barbecue and wine, and we're like, why not, dude? Watch me, watch me. Exactly. Watch me. And it was like great. And then the other day I was out having some uh Vietnamese um pork chop with it's gum gum soon, and it's just so delicious. And I was like sitting there going, and one of my friends was visiting me. He's like, What wine should we have with this? And I was like, dude, don't know, but like let's try out some different things, let's find out, let's figure out what works. And it was wild because these were not traditional foods, you know. How what wine goes with, you know, because one of the things we were in fish sauce? What pairs with fish sauce? It's so aromatic, it's so pungent, you know. What can you mix with that? And it was like, we we kind of tried out a couple things, and uh, you know what actually worked for us? It was a Shiraz, some Australian Shiraz, man. It worked well, it was wild, peppery, and it just paired with the food, you know.

SPEAKER_00 36:31

I love that, and you get so much fruit coming through on that. Oh, that would be so good, right?

SPEAKER_03 36:37

It was fun, it was fun, but like it took us throwing all of the the books and the learning out the window. We're like, dude, no one no one's been pairing fish sauce and wine before. So let's figure out what we can do.

SPEAKER_00 36:50

Yes, I know. I know what I'm doing when I get to work, pulling out some fish sauce and charaz and gonna figure this out.

SPEAKER_03 36:59

You gotta try it. It's wild. Well, let me ask you this. What are your personal go-to wine styles or grapes when you're off the clock? You know, you're just at home doing your thing. What do you go to?

SPEAKER_00 37:10

So my go-to's is champagne. I am a tried and true champagne girl. That's that's my happy place. Umbles just, you know, bring the joy. So I'm I'm a big bubbles girl.

SPEAKER_03 37:26

I can't think of anything else, but every time I start talking about champagne bubbles, I just think of finding Nemo, the character that's staring at the bubble. That's me when I get champagne. I'm like, bubbles!

SPEAKER_00 37:40

And I'm gonna do that the next time I open a bottle, so I'm just gonna go bubbles.

SPEAKER_03 37:44

Do it, do it.

SPEAKER_00 37:46

I'll send you a video.

SPEAKER_03 37:48

I would love it. I would love to go into a super high-end fine dining restaurant and have the champagne be popped and the person scream bubbles. That would be my favorite experience.

SPEAKER_00 37:58

So many clutched pearls in that moment. I can imagine. But if I'm not drinking champagne, uh like I would say varietally, I'm drinking Pinot.

SPEAKER_03 38:12

I'm a big fan of Pinot.

SPEAKER_00 38:14

It's one of those things where it's so complex too. You know, Pinot from Santa Barbara versus Burgundy and Carnarous, it's it's all so unique and so different. So even then, it's what am I in the mood for there? Uh so it just hits so many spots. But I I love acid. I I love that, you know, it's lighter in style, it's not overwhelming. I can easily go for a second or third class and you know, just not feel weighed down or tired by it. So I'm yeah, I feel like in our world, basic, I'm like, champagne, Pinot. Such a basic answer, but they're they're they're good for a reason.

SPEAKER_03 38:55

Yeah, I love that. And I I you know, and there's personal too, you know. I I think everyone has the threes and they're going for it. I had um I had one person who came on recently and I asked that question, and they were like, they were a big, big Italian wine fan. And I was like, why? And when they said, well, you know, I grew up and my my grandma was Italian, and we always had the the Italian varietals on the table. We had the it was table wine, we had it there. It was going with food all the time. Yes, and it was interesting. And they're like, so now when I have that flavor, it might not be the greatest wine, but that flavor means home. Yes, it's comfort, it's comfort, it is that thing that you know. But let me ask you this now, because you know, uh, since you're gonna go try my Shiraz and fish sauce in a bit, but what's a food and wine pairing that never fails to make you happy?

SPEAKER_00 39:46

Oh, Riesling and triple cream bree with honey. Like that's my favorite snack. It's a really beautiful triple cream, some honey, some bread. Oh, and a nice, nice Raisling. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 40:02

Oh, that that's that's power. That's that that's awesome. Well, let me ask you this one is there an underrated wine region or style that you wish more people knew about? Some place or or wine that you think, all right, people need to be given this more love.

SPEAKER_00 40:17

Yeah, I think that it was a fad for a really long time. And I think that, you know, Tenfold did an amazing job of putting Australia on the map. But there are some really cool small producers out of Australia that are making wines that are also, you know, there was that really big bold face for so long. Um, that there's there's a lot more balance coming out of Australia. So I I would go there.

SPEAKER_03 40:50

Yeah, I've got a bottle of Australian wine right down under my table that I I I'm I'm I'm popping over the table.

SPEAKER_01 40:56

You know what's up, Sean.

SPEAKER_03 40:57

Yeah, yeah. I love it as an Australian blend, it's super balanced as well. Man, I I I think because living in Asia, we get a lot of Australian wines, and that's something that Californians don't get as much of, but man, they're they're doing some things right. But you you're right, they do have some of those really, like you're like, whoa, this is wild. But lately it's been super balanced, so I I'm with you on that. Um what is a varietal that you love to hate?

SPEAKER_00 41:26

Ooh, I have never been asked that. That is a good question. Love to hate, and it's also because I'm from Pastor Bulls, Zentel.

SPEAKER_03 41:38

Why? Talk to me about it.

SPEAKER_00 41:40

It's again going to that like inconsistency where like you can be awesome or you can taste like prunes. Like it's so different. It gets so overripe, so saturated, and yeah, it would be Zinfandel. Like rate ones are great, but man, it can suck. I listen dad Zen too.

SPEAKER_03 42:05

So I know what you're talking about. Yes. I've had some that are just like home run, and I've had some that are like strikeout.

SPEAKER_00 42:11

Yes. Totally inconsistent in like the worst ways.

SPEAKER_03 42:17

Well, if you had to give one simple reason people should love wine without any fancy language, what what would you say?

SPEAKER_00 42:25

Gosh. I mean, it's delicious. But I just because it's so unique, like you'll you'll never get the same thing twice. You get to have so much fun with it, and you get to just enjoy it with your friends. That's the whole point of it. Is you know, being able to explore flavor profiles and food pairing is so fun, right? Understanding salt, fat, acid heat. And then how do I find a wine that goes into that niche? Like, am I looking for acid? Am I looking for more weight? Am I looking for sugar? You know, it to me, that is the fun part of it. Like fall into it because you're a really curious person that loves to eat and drink. And how can I do it the best way possible?

SPEAKER_03 43:19

I love that. I love that. Well, I I want to say thank you. That's been an that was that was all questions I had. But where can people find out more about you and what you do?

SPEAKER_00 43:29

Uh you can Google me. Uh yes, yes. Um, so great question, but in the sense that like I am now in a unique experience where I'm not um as accessible as I was in my past restaurant life, or now I'm working for a private social club. So you can reach out to me via LinkedIn or Instagram. But I'm currently I'm in a four-wall space, but you know, it's one of the things of beauty where you can't just people can't just walk in and come in and you know see Serena. Um and that's a fun part of what I do is like I I actually enjoy the exclusivity of the space that I'm in and I enjoy that are for our members. It's very cool. So I'm not accessible in that way anymore, but absolutely accessible via LinkedIn, Instagram. Very easy to find and love connecting with people, especially love connecting with uh those in the industry are who are trying to grow and learn in it and want to get to that next level and understand how to really make a career out of it. I think that's something that I'm very passionate about is finding people who want to be more than a sump who just like enjoys drinking wine and you know if you can go kid in a candy store very easily. But you know this is somebody's business and how do I make this a really successful business? How do I take this program and take it to the next level not just because it's something that I like but because I'm smart and strategic. So I I anybody who wants to reach out and talk about that, like I'm here for that all day long, you know nurturing a program to be successful and finding those who are really you know passionate about that and being successful in that I'd love to support that