Grapes, Gis & Gut Instinct | Dennis McCarter | Barrels and Roots

I sat down with Dennis McCarter, founder of McGregor McCarter's Cellars, and honestly this conversation hit different. Dennis left a 13-year career in insurance after the Tubbs Fire reshaped his world, and instead of starting over in something safe, he leaned all the way into his passion for winemaking. 

We talked about the Japanese philosophy of Jita Kyoei, mutual benefit and winning together, and how it shows up everywhere from sharing equipment in a custom crush to mentoring interns in the cellar. We got into the unglamorous reality of harvest season, stuck fermentations, heat spikes pushing Brix overnight, and why adapting rather than panicking is the skill no school teaches you. Dennis also gets real about making wine more inclusive and breaking down the myth that it belongs to only one type of person or occasion. This one is for the career-changers, the late bloomers, and anyone who's ever needed a reminder that the best things take time. 

What's a skill or craft in your life that you had to learn the hard way, and what's the one thing you wish someone had told you sooner?

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

'Cause you know, there's the etiquette of getting on on on the mat, how you put on your uniform, cleanness, all those things to how you respect one another. Um so I would say on those things there's a similarity. You when you walk into a winery, you clean everything. You clean your equipment you're about to use. Uh you clean your thief if you're gonna take some samples out of the lab, you have your spray bottle. And so there's always that practice of cleaning this. And um and then I break the rules and climb the barrels. That's what I love doing. But um, but besides that, it's I would say that that's that's one of the closest things. But when it comes to making the wine, I would say it's very similar. Um, it's very physical. If you do judo, we throw each other, we pin, we choke, we do all that, and then of course you're fighting your way out of that or trying to deliver. Um while you're in the winery during harvest season, you're literally pulling over a heavy pump with you know, heavy hose, climbing and doing doing pump overs, um, doing punch downs on tanks with caps that are about you know three feet thick. It's a workout. And so um they both can be very physical, um, but both can be places of respect. You're working with other um interns, other um winemakers, um cooperating, and because sometimes when it's a busy environment and you're in a custom crush, you have to share the space and learn to, you know, learn to make make beat with things.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

All right, welcome everybody back to the Barrels and Roots podcast. I've got an awesome guest with me today. Would you like to tell people who you are and a little bit about what you do?

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Yeah, so I'm Dennis McArthur, and I'm also the owner and winemaker at McCarter Sellers. Um, I started back in 2022 uh making Pinot Noir and Sal Blanc. Since then, um I'm now making more Pinot Noir and uh Zeffendel, Gaverse Demeanor, and Rose, everything that's made has uh won some pretty significant accolades. And um, yeah, glad to be here.

SPEAKER_02 2:17

That's awesome, man. You you how did you get into wine? What what was it that you know you came from another career? What what pulled you uh in strongly enough to make the leap into winemaking?

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Well I would say part of it was the change of of of the industry I was I was working in at the time, which was insurance. And I ran an insurance for about 13 years. And my hobby was making wine at home, and so 15 years ago I was doing that, and finally, um, after the tub and nuns fires that kind of rocked the area, uh, the rates really went up, and then um I had reduced commission to add an office to keep open. And I was like, Yeah, let me make a change. And then all my friends and family were like, you should really get into wine. I'm like, I'm just not sure. I'm not sure. It's not what folks like me in the space, it's expensive to get in it. Um and but with that push and that date from my family, that that helped. But also my passion for wine. Um, because when it came downtown to it, I was like, you know what? Let me figure out what else to do. And I was like, yeah, let it be wine. So I saw my agency. I worked to harvest at a few wineries, one of them being uh Vinify, where I end up uh end up making my wine at now. And uh they hired me as a seller worker. I went back to school uh at the Central War's Junior College for analogy, took a few courses, and um did a did some assistant winemaking and then survived the pandemic. And uh from from that, um after that, I was like, well, I think it's time to start my car sellers as the world starts waking back up again. And uh so start off with about uh two two tons of Pinot Noir and one ton of Sauvignon Blanc. And I'm almost finally almost done selling my 2022 image of a Pinot Noir. It came from Furcame Vineyards. And um this is like right off of um it's right next, it's in Hillsburg. It's right off of Old Redwood Highway, next to Acorn, across the street from uh it's been a long day. The corner of Limerick Lane and Overwood Highway. And so if you see that on freeway, that that's that beautiful vineyard. But um I knew Andrew for a long time, and I would source from him as an amateur, and I also connected him to a few other commercial um wineries that sourced from him. So I went one commercial, he gave me uh an offer I couldn't refuse. I can't won't disclose it, but he gave me a good deal. And um, so I got about two tons of martini clone, and 2022 was a pretty hot year. That was a year that we had 110 degree temperatures. Straight. Oh yeah, and so normally that's the time when you're worrying about ripening and you know, you're getting close, getting close, the bricks aren't moving, you're going out, you're walking, taking your random samples, and you're like, okay, stay in that 20, stay in that 20, and talk to another winery and say, hey, are you guys getting the same specs? You're like, yeah, I'm getting the same specs, and then all of a sudden, two days later, 26. And so the solidity to that is that's gonna be pretty high or pretty ripe, um, pretty ripe wine. And and normally I want to go for 24. So rush got it, harvested, ended up um doing some chemistry on it, you know, adding a little water, a little acid, uh, did about 25% whole cluster, um, managed to permit, and um sorry, I went off on another topic. No question.

SPEAKER_02 6:05

It did, man. It's interesting because um my question, that the follow-up question was gonna be about that. You know, you know, when you think about your early days in winemaking, you were just getting started. Uh what were the hardest lessons you had to learn the slow way? You know, it sounds like you know, right off from your first round of winemaking, you had some some things that you had to navigate. What what what were the things that you were learning at that time?

SPEAKER_01 6:32

Well, first getting into wine, you know, it would it would be patience and attention to detail. And um, so and that started a lot in in the garage for me. And and so if you're if you pick too early, you know, for for making, you know, to make your wines, you're not gonna make the right phenolics, right flavor components. Um but also if you choose to go on vacation and then come back and you have grapes that are 28 bricks, yeah. That that can also be another thing. So attention to detail. Um measuring. It's kind of kind of like when working in a wood shop. Um measure twice, cut once. Um you can make an adjustment with your wine and try to go that same path. Because once you make it, you it's hard to undo. And so those were two things um I do a lot is like double check, double check, double check.

SPEAKER_02 7:29

One of the things that I I like about what you're saying too is I um recently I I went and did some leather working with my daughter. We we made some leather. Um, and you know, when I was making things with her, luckily the uh the the teacher pre-cut everything. And she's like, well, I want to cut it. And I said, we will, we will. And she went and cut her own leather. And then afterwards she was like, it doesn't fit. You know, I was like, because it's something that you have to be exact. You know, you have to really keep it the right size, the right shape, everything has to match up. And when it doesn't, you know, you get into trouble. And we don't always realize that the exactness of things and the importance of that. Uh I make videos and video content is what I do. And if I'm syncing up audio and video, you know, after this, I'll do some audio cleanup on what we do, remove some noise, make us sound more fantastic. But if I then reapply that audio and it's not completely lined up, we're going to be, you know, it's going to have this really weird effect. You know, perfection is important, you know, and having that attention to detail is really important. And sometimes perfection is the attention to detail is realizing that things are to a degree imperfect, but then how can you adapt from that at the same time, you know?

SPEAKER_01 8:49

Exactly. Exactly. Sometimes you gotta accept it for what it is. Like there's some things you can correct. Like if you have hydrogen sulfite in your wine. Um yeah, you a little air may help, or a little copper sulfite, what what what may undo. Um but then you know, if there's a little Brett, a little Brettomyces, most people don't want to admit that, but a little bit of Brett's okay. That's not, you know, so it's like it's like funk, you know, uh Booty Collins, NSP NSP funk, uh punkadelets. Um a little bit's okay. Too much can be yeah. If that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 9:34

Yeah, no, it does make sense. Like we you you get I I love um that sometimes I remember my daughter was painting a picture, she has an art class that she loves, and she knocked over um some paint. And when she knocked over that paint, what happened was um it caused all these like little dots across her painting that she'd done, and she was so frustrated. And luckily the teacher was there and she's like, uh calm down. We can put this in. You know, you dump the whole the whole thing of some paint. Well, that's kind of hard to fix, but you know, these little imperfections you can learn to make to work with them, to dance with them, and to make them a little bit more manageable, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

And a way kind of goes back to martial arts. There's a certain part of giving away. So you you become an applicable, apply yourself to to change.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

Yeah, I 100% agree. You know, and that was going to be my next question is like you teach judo and make wine, you know, where do you see the strongest overlap between martial arts training and winemaking?

SPEAKER_01 10:49

Oh, so many, so many. Because, you know, there's the etiquette of getting on on the mat, how you put on your uniform, cleanliness, all those things to how you respect one another. Um, so I would say on those things, there's a similarity. You when you walk into a winery, you clean everything. You clean your equipment you're about to use. Uh, you clean your thief if you're gonna take some samples out of the lab, you have your spray bottle. And so there's always that practice of cleaningness. And um, and then I break the rules and climb the barrels, that's what I love doing. But um, but besides that, it's I would say that that's that's one of the closest things. But when it comes to making the wine, I would say it's very similar. Um, it's very physical. If you do judo, we throw each other, we pin, we choke, we do all that. And then, of course, you're fighting your way out of that or trying to deliver. Um while you're in the winery during harbor season, you're literally pulling over a heavy pump with, you know, heavy hose, climbing and doing doing pump overs, um, doing punch downs on tanks with caps that are about you know three feet thick. It's a workout. And so um they both can be very physical, um, but both can be places of respect. You're working with other um interns, other uh winemakers, um, cooperating, and because sometimes when it's a busy environment and you're in a custom crush, you have to share the space and learn to, you know, learn to make make do with things.

SPEAKER_02 12:30

That's awesome because I, you know, I I also study martial arts. And, you know, there are days where things go your way and days where things do not, you know. You have a day where you're on top of the world, and the next day you're having to pivot. Especially in judo, you know, you know, you're you're going for a throw and someone's like, Yeah, that's not happening today, and suddenly you're laying on the back on your back on the mat, going, How did I miss that? You know, and it's interesting because I mean, when you're doing winemaking, um, I am no winemaker, but I I from interviewing a lot of people, it sounds like there are days where the wine has its own mind and it decides that it, you're, you're like, let's go right, and it's like, let's go left, you know? And one of the things I wanted to ask you about that is because when you are in a situation like that, how do you adapt or pivot? What are some of the things that you do to kind of sit there and go, all right, how can we, you know, shift and respond to this new reality as we wake up today?

SPEAKER_01 13:35

I was saying this patiently monitor it. If it if it's something that that's just just takes time, like sometimes sulfur, like you just sulfur the wine, and it's one of the barrels may just have an aroma that that smelled like matchsticks. You're like, okay, this is still smelling like matchsticks, but it just got sulfured a week ago, okay. Is it gonna taste any better, smell any better? Let it go. Let it be. Um I try not to let myself get too crazy when things don't don't work out. Um except for one time I had to do it with a stuck fermentation and I still have to handle that carefully. It's just, okay, I'm losing. I gotta restart this. And um and so it became my almost my obsession to to fix. But I was glad when I did the restart and it started getting to dryness that I wanted. It was almost done too. Uh what ended up happening was my bin was outside, it got over a hundred, it got it reached a hundred degrees because we had a heat spike, and I couldn't control my bin being outside, unfortunately, because there was many other bins. And the thermal temperature inside was already, you know, the kinetic energy was already happening and um inside the bin, but it was frying the yeast, and so there wasn't enough yeast to finish the job, and so I had to restart that and do do all the measurements to make sure I had enough water to do the restart, add enough nutrient. Not to go into the details, it it it was it was annoying. Restarts are usually a headache, and you could pull loss lose hair over it, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:20

I wanted to ask you this. Uh, and forgive me if I mess up the word, but you mentioned jita qay. Um, yes. Yeah, mutual benefit and prosperity. What is how does that idea show up in the way you run a winery or build community around your work? What is that that concept?

SPEAKER_01 15:39

Well, jita ki away, and you said it perfectly, another way is um you me shining together, you mean moving forward together or win-win. And so having those opportunities where it's like, well, here's some interns I'm gonna be working with on my wines. I better treat them nice, you know, those kinds, right? Um, you know, to uh this just being humble enough around the people around you, uh being willing to help. Um and sometimes that help returns back to you. Um not hogging all the equipment, it's another one. So um, so what so I'd say is um in judo, we cooperate with with our partner, which is part of that shit to keep away. And so it's not not like doing kata. You gotta have a partner to really understand the principles of some of those techniques. And it helps having good partners around you in the winery to watch out for you, you know, because there's some things you may miss. And um, and it's like, hey, you're you didn't put a bung in. I'm like, thank you. You saved my wine. You're gonna make it taste that much better.

SPEAKER_02 16:48

So I love that because um we all build together. People, everyone thinks that they, you know, even the the the person who has made it has had people that helped them a lot along the way, like people who were the people that they were leaning on and guiding them and and helping them, you know, and and if you can't see the mutual, you know, like benefit of of taking care of them and them taking care of you, you're crazy. Yeah, I I have a team that does my video editing. And the other day my my suitcase got lost. I know I flew to the US, flew all over the world, threw through Qatar, and when I came back, uh my suitcase was sitting in Qatar, uh in Chicago, and I had already passed through Qatar and Vietnam. And like I'm sitting there, and they're like, the airline was like, we are so sorry. We found your suitcase. I was like, great. They're like, it's still in America. And I was like, not great. Um, but they're like, we're gonna can compensate you a certain amount of money and you know, for your inconvenience. And I sat there and I had suddenly this you know amount of money, and I was like, I looked at it and I came in and a couple of my workers were just sitting there and like, oh, my back's sore. And I was like, well, what's why is your back so sore? And you're like, well, the chairs that we got here kind of suck. I was like, all right, well, let's buy some new chairs. Like, you don't have to. I was like, well, no, man, you guys help me. I'm gonna help you and get you something really comfy and you know, squishy, like kind of lean in on, and you know, but my point is, is like I wasn't buying it just for them. I was buying it for me, and I was buying it for, but we all benefit, like they got a nicer place to work, they want to show up to work, they have a better day sitting there and don't feel achy. That benefits me, you know. So it's like we all build together at the same time. And anyone who thinks that you operate inside of a vacuum is crazy. It's like that's not how the life works, you know? Exactly, exactly. It takes a village. It does. You know, but I want to ask you this one because every winemaker has a moment when they feel, okay, I actually know what I'm doing now. Did you have a moment like that where it all clicked and you also started going like, wow, this is this is coming together?

SPEAKER_01 19:05

Yes, and no. I feel like I I did well with with everything I've made. But uh I I I guess I when I when you ask that question, I think of it more like kind of like the same thing in martial arts. You can't know everything, so you gotta keep practicing. You gotta keep the practice. And so year by year, harvest by harvest. But I would say when I felt like I was beginning to make some good stuff, was probably one of my first times I made a white wine. And I did it at home, and it was the crude way. It was the, you know, because you don't have a a stainless steel tank with glycol system jackets that can go around. You have a tub of water and frozen water bottles and a carboy. And uh I made made this video, I coufermented it at about as low as it could go, so I'm assuming it was maybe around 50-ish. And I would cycle that those water bottles out to have it finish dry eventually, which took about a little bit over a month. And um they got like double gold and and family members led to the only problem was I made two cases. That's not a lot, so it disappeared fast. But um year after year, when they got the accolades, I was thinking, okay, I think I'm doing all right, and I think this wine's all right. And I still, even today's time, because took on many accolades since starting the car sellers commercially, um, I still feel like I yeah, I have a habit down on making wine, but I still have something to learn. I still have a lot to learn, and I look forward to it.

SPEAKER_02 20:50

There's always you know, you you study martial arts, the idea of like that motion, you know, the beginner's mind. There's always something to learn. And you know, every single day that you step into the arena, the training mat, the dojo, you know, you got something that you can you can refine, you know, and you know, one of the things that's fascinating to me, because people think winemaking is, you know, I I don't even think they understand what it's all about. But you know, like what I'm starting to see is uh wine is all about farming. I love that you described one of your Pinot and you were talking about the exact place you knew exactly where your wine came from and where those grapes came from, you know, and so there's this place and the people that that put the energy into that, and then you know, you get into this dance of chemistry, but there's also art and a whole bunch of patience all mixed together, you know. Which part do you personally feel most connected to of that whole process?

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Oh man, it's kind of multiple, but I would say walk in the vineyard. You know, and seeing the grapes, seeing the babies grow, you know, and um having that moment where it's just it's quiet outside and it's my time with my road I'm sourcing from. But also when I'm in the winery and I'm uh processing my fruit, I'm monitoring the fermentation, uh managing a pump over and punch down. And especially when I'm doing a pump over, I play my favorite music, which is usually some soul music, and um and just having that moment with, you know, my my my project. And that's it's like cooking. When you're in your your zone, it's just it it's it it it's it's it's spiritual. When you're seeing the this this raw product transform into something that's gonna be um delicious, most likely in the end, and it's it's gonna bring people together and uh it's gonna be celebratory usually for for most people or yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:59

I love that, man. Well, I now you got me thinking, what's your go-to playlist? You know, what are some of the the unconditional songs that have to be on there?

SPEAKER_01 23:08

Well, I I'll have to share you, share my um my Great Crush mix on Spotify. But it's a little mix of everything, but soul music is my main main thing. So I I do um Lucky Day, uh Frankie Beverly, uh D'Angelo, um, but then I'll have a little bit of uh little bit of grunge, a little bit of Stone Temple Pallettes, um Prince, Lady Kravitz, um, Filter, Daft Punk. It can go ranges of everything, but if I'm doing a punch down, give me Daft Punk, you know. Um, but if I'm doing a pump over, give me some love making music. Uh, you know, I won't I won't won't walk that juice flowing. So that's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 23:54

That's awesome, man. Well, I I was thinking about this, like, you know, because music, music changes everything, and you're right. Like, you know, I I was setting up a playlist the other day, and I was thinking about like music to focus to, music to get shit done, music to, you know, relax to. Um, and I was thinking about it because like every time I fly, I've got you know, some noise canceling headphones, and it's the only way I'm able to do like these long haul flights between Asia and the US. But like I I I'll bring with me, like I still have uh a Sony Walkman, and I I put on there my playlists, and man, there's certain things like what was it the other day that I was listening to on that flight? I I had some I had some jazz playing, I had some Coltrain, but then like at a certain point in time, I needed to get work done. And like, dude, Daft Punk is a go-to. Um it just it is a go-to, you know. And I I I'm a huge fan of the Daft Punk Tron soundtrack. Like, I love that soundtrack. It's just it it's something that I can just get I get work done for days when that's playing, you know?

SPEAKER_01 25:00

That's on my playlist too, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:03

Right?

SPEAKER_01 25:04

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:04

I want to ask you this. What what do you think modern wine culture gets right? And what do you think it sometimes forgets?

SPEAKER_01 25:10

Yeah, it's not limited to one demographic, uh, you know, historically. It's many, many cultures at some point made wine. And so, you know, like my family was, you know, in the beginning, like, you're in what white folks do. I'm like, you you know our people make wine too, you know. And this was many years ago, but at the educator, I'm like, you know, like, hey, this is not just a European thing. This is not just a Asian thing. This is not just um, you know, this is a human thing. And so um historically, you can look far back in Georgia, wine was made. And um, we know parts in Africa, wine was made. And we know wine was made here, obviously. And um, and so I think that's one of the things, then the misconception of sulfites. And so you were like, oh, sulfites are are bad. And I was like, well, okay, well, there's more sulfites in your frozen french fries than there is in your glass of wine. The whole bottle, actually. There's just there's more let me say that again. Yeah, there's more uh sulfites in your french fries than there is in a bottle of wine. Um and so if wine is bothering you, it may be something else you might be allergic to.

SPEAKER_02 26:23

Right. You know, it's interesting too that I think that one of the things that I'm seeing is that people we have all these preconceived ideas about wine, you know, and people come to the wine conversation with bias right from the beginning. And I don't know whether it's from pop culture and modern media. I mean, you see it in the movies, like all of these people that drink wine are like, you know, more of kind of like wine snobs type of a thing. You know, like, oh, let's get this wine. And like the reality is is everyone that I know drinks wine, and it's not, you know, um, it's not pretentious, it's very relatable, and these are relatable people, you know. And and I think that I I hope that we can start changing the preconceived ideas that people have about wine, you know, because to me, wine is for everyone. I mean, yes, everyone over 21, you know.

SPEAKER_01 27:20

Well, yeah, but yes, you said it right.

SPEAKER_02 27:22

Ditto.

unknown 27:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:24

Wine is for everyone. And how can we get people to understand that and and to how can we make wine more approachable?

SPEAKER_01 27:32

I would say start having more events that are friendly to all ages, well, except for you know, anyone 21 years and over, um, that have an outreach and saying, hey, partake. And and no, you don't have to have a nice dress or, you know, wear a suit. Uh is not meant for bougie events, but it's like, okay, you want to taste wine, you want to taste flare, here, you know, food, food wine pairings, which some accounty is really good with um having that a food and wine affair um events that we have out here. Um we have the North Coast Wine Challenge or North Coast Festival where they have the best foods and best wines, and people can, you know, buy a ticket and go out and try the local award-winning wineries. And I think having those events help bring exposure and saying, okay, here's a small producer or a big producer, regardless. And here's some food that's right next to. And I think that helps folks realize, oh, wine is meant to be consumed with food. And and so see how the food elevates the wine and vice versa. Um, and maybe they'll make them want to have a glass of wine, you know, for dinner. Not every day, but maybe some days.

SPEAKER_02 28:47

Mm-hmm. Well, it's interesting too, because I I think that um one thing that I have and I talk about all the time on this podcast is I think that the wine industry has really focused in on certain segments of the population, you know, and and like mainly age demographics is like, you know, there was for a long time that, you know, wine drinkers were seemingly boomers, and and that not a problem with that, but like I I feel like, you know, I have friends, I was looking at this demographic, like what people drink in different regions. And like I I live in Asia part-time and I live in California the rest of the time. And one of the things is is when I go to drink, uh, you know, I I we had a work party and everyone was drinking beer for my for my company, and I pulled out a bottle of red and I was like, all right, guys, try this. And people were just like blown away, you know, and and not in a way that they were like that I would have hoped. I would like I love this wine, and I just like, oh, this is delicious. And they're just like, what in the hell is this? And I'm like, but you know, there was a couple of people that were, you know, like really like, oh, this is this is like not bad. Um, it it but it was like it's exposure thing. And then I I pulled out some food to pair it with, and people were like, now, now this is cooking, now we're cooking. And like they were really interested and want to get into it, but it took me kind of giving them a door-opening experience to to like uh get in there, you know. And I I wonder how can we make it so that we are really um tapping into because it's like uh this too, like it's a way smarter thing to like tap into multiple markets than to just I had this one guy on to my other podcast last night talking about content, and he runs a translations like a dubbing AI software that automatically dubs into other languages for YouTube videos. And he says, what happens when you start reaching out into these other demographics is suddenly, dude, people are crushing it, hundreds of millions of new fans, because you know, before people in South America couldn't understand Mr. Beast. Now it's straight dubbed into like Portuguese for Brazil and Spanish for the rest of South America, you know? Like if you can look at these other markets, like, dude, suddenly doors open if you're willing and able to sit there and go, maybe we don't have to just sell to only this group. We can get it to everyone, you know?

SPEAKER_01 31:14

I completely agree. I completely agree. There's a matter of how how to catch them, and I think part of it's social media, because most of the next generation, they're on social media already. And the when you look at some of the big wineries, and I won't mention any names, but for you that we're all familiar with, you know, you'll be able to see our posts from them, maybe every two, maybe once a month, or maybe every two weeks, and the exposure's not there. So they have a following. So you won't have to do that because we have this following, but that following is dying off. And so it's important to use all forms of marketing. You know, yes, you're in magazines, people still pick up magazines, but yeah, get someone to take care of your social media. And and that's a job in itself, of course, you know, they kind of realize, but have someone manage that and on a daily basis, reach out to any any customer that does, you know, anyone that's interested in wine. And so I think that's one of the things that would need to change with with many of the businesses is how they market on social media.

SPEAKER_02 32:16

So I love that, man. Well, you know, teaching judo means guiding people through discomfort and repetition. You know, how has teaching shaped how you lead teams in the cellar?

SPEAKER_01 32:28

I would say leading by example. So um be the one willing to do it first, demonstrate how it's done, uh, which though I'm I was an intern slash winemaker um over harvest season. I still get the um so some of the duties of okay, here's how we use a pump. Here is how you take a lap lap sample. Um, those those kind of things. And um, but but always have patience. Always have patience and and be understanding, you know, people make mistakes, and so not to shove their nose in the dirt and say, get out of my house, you know. And it's the same thing, you know, in a dojo setting. It's like, okay, well, you did this wrong. Here's what what we can do to improve it. And so when the mistake's not too costly, there's still an experience to be had. But um, but yeah, patience. Patience is the main thing I would say.

SPEAKER_02 33:23

I I love that. Um, you know, I I think that you know, we I didn't understand patience until I became a father. Right now, um, you know, my wife is traveling, my daughter woke up, I don't feel so good, gave her some medicine. As soon as we're done, I'm gonna run her up to the doctor. And like you sit there and you look at parenting and being a father, being, you know, a parent of any sort, and you sit there, whether it be a parent to animals, man, like, you know, our fur babies also have some drama, you know. I gave my dog something delicious the other day, and it was vomit everywhere for about five hours. And I was just like, I don't know why that happened. But, you know, I I think that I love things that teach patience. I love analog photography, and I talk about it a lot on this podcast because I feel like there are a lot of overlaps with wine making. You know, you put your your passion into something, but you don't get to see the results for a while, you know? And um the other day I did a full roll and I was so excited. I took it in to develop it, and I'd messed up something. And it was just, it was not what I was thinking. And I had to sit there and go, find that patience with myself to sit there and go, you know what? It is what it is. It's like, you know, with my daughter, you know, she didn't want to be sick today, but we adapt. I've got a busy day at work, but you know what? I'm gonna be working from home and we'll make it work, you know, because life is about pivoting. And I I think winemaking is a lot about that as well.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

I agree. I agree. It it's because you you pivot, you adapt. Because it doesn't always do what you want it to sometimes. And uh you can guide it. And um but yes, I think you said it right in that correlation between parenting, because I'm a 19-year-old, so I I I've been I've been at the parts part where you're at with with with with with a kid and and uh same thing. It takes patience and understanding and realizing they're gonna make mistakes and hopefully grow from it. And we're gonna make mistakes too, and we grow from it. Right.

SPEAKER_02 35:40

Uh if someone is just starting out their own path and wine later in life, what advice would you give them that you wish you had early on?

SPEAKER_01 35:47

Well to do an internship. So if if you're young, you want to get started in what in the mind making, and um the good best way is uh do an internship. Usually there's the crash course of mentorship, and then the next you know, next few months, as long as you don't mind working every day and not getting a lot of sleep, um you'll learn a lot and you'll find out real fast if you're a fit for it. Then to make someone at home, like whether it's a kit, which I've never done, I've always done fresh grapes personally, but uh however you do it, try making someone at home and you get some of the equipment. The resources are out there. Um and then if you really want to take the next step, go to school. Study analogy, um, you know, whether it's UC Davis or it's um a junior college that offers wine studies, um, those are the paths I would say this to start start taking. And I get that advan advantage because you need education in order to be a winemaker nowadays, not just work your way up. They want to see either a master's degree or a bachelor's degree of science. And so if you have that figured out ahead of time, get those credentials.

SPEAKER_02 37:03

That's awesome, man. What's your favorite wine? What's your go-to wine that you, you know, you're you're just gonna sit there, you want to have a relaxing day. What are you gonna open up right now?

SPEAKER_01 37:14

Well, my go-to lately is zen. Uh, you know, when it's cold and it's that time of year, it's like the zen, that's 15% alcohol, just enough to warm me up a little bit, have some, have a hearty meal. But at the same time, I drink a lot of Pinot. I drink a lot of Pinot. But I I hold on to my Zens for special occasions. Um But normally I'm I'm kind of like the and I'm an acrobat wine drinker, so it depends on my mood, weather, and what I'm eating. Um but lately it's been it's been Zen. And so I make a Zen for Rock Powell, and then of course I enjoy uh Zen from Von Duffy, you know, a few producers that is, but um, and some of the Wilson brands I enjoy as well. So I consume a lot of it, I've made a lot of it. So yeah, it's a beautiful grape. Beautiful wine.

SPEAKER_02 38:13

That's awesome. That's awesome, man. Um if someone's new to wine and you gotta pour them three glasses, what three glasses are you pouring for them?

SPEAKER_01 38:23

I'm gonna start them off with something obscure. So I would pour down either a Riesling or Gibraltar Stimminger. Um yet especially Riesling. I would pour down Riesling. Aromatic, acidic, but it's quite quite enjoyable. I would pour a Pinot and then I would pour a big hardy red, it would probably be it'll probably be a cab. It'll probably be a cab. And uh or b or some sort of Bordeaux blend. Um because you have your middle middle of the road wine, red wine, you have your big heavy red wine, then you have your aromatic white wine. And um all those have their place. You know. Some like one or the other, but all uh it could be depending on your mood, it could be depending on what you're eating. If I was having fish tacos, give me that reason. Dry reason, by the way. When I say that. Um if it's pork, give me Pinot Noir. If it's a beef stew, give me that cab or that Burnout blend. And um so yes, those will be the three glasses.

SPEAKER_02 39:43

That's awesome, ma'am. Where can people go to find out more about you and the wines that you make?

SPEAKER_01 39:49

So you can find my wines at McCartasellers.com and I offer a wine club and I do ship to most states. And then for those that are watching this and they're in Sonoma County, um, I'm at Penny Road Market Bottle Barn, um, Grossman Nashery, that was a restaurant, uh Jackson's Bar and Oven, local-ish. And quite a few spots locally. But um I do have a tasting in Santa Rosa, uh, it's Identify, and it's by appointment only. So just give me a call or email, we can schedule that. And I even allow barrel to barrel thieving. So if you've never never had a barrel thieving experience where you get a taste out of the barrel, I can provide that with a tasting