Santo Diablo Rising | Junio Vargas Ojeda | Barrels & Roots

I sat down with Junio Vargas Ojeda, winemaker at Cali Custom Crush and founder of Santo Diablo Wine Company, to hear how a kid from a farming family ended up making some of the most interesting wines in Paso Robles. 

Junio didn't grow up drinking wine or even thinking about it as anything more than just another job when his cousin got him a position on a bottling line back in 1999. His family worked strawberry fields and vineyards, but wine itself wasn't part of their culture. What changed everything was meeting his mentor Etienne Turlington, a Navy SEAL turned winemaker who didn't just teach him how to clean tanks and punch down caps, but showed him the why behind every decision in the cellar. We talked about that moment when Etienne had to deploy for eight months mid-harvest, leaving Junio to figure it out on his own, and how that trial by fire built the confidence that would carry him through fifteen years as a cellar master before finally stepping into the winemaker role. 

This conversation gets into the reality of winemaking, the importance of starting from the bottom and mastering the basics like cleaning before you ever think about blending, and why wine's ability to evolve in the bottle makes it something special that connects us to thousands of years of history.

What's the one thing you've been too scared to start, and what would it take for you to finally pull the trigger on it?

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

He had to go to uh on a mission or it wasn't a mission, it was like I think it was in like 2004, he had to work with uh Mexico military of Fuerza Sociales, something like that. He couldn't tell me because he was in the Navy. So he's all like, listen, I gotta go for for about eight months. I wanna say he left like in the middle of harvest. And it was just it was just me and some other guy trying to finish the harvest. And uh by fire, man. But he gave me that confidence. He's oh he was always there. He was like always calling me. He called me with this weird number, like 800, you know, big number, and he was in a hell helicopter. He's like, Hey, who do you have to go? And you hear the chops. I'm like, hey, yeah, uh I have a question. You know, I have this, that going on. What do you think? Oh, yeah, you got it, buddy. You got it. And then he goes, Listen, I gotta go because I have a jump on an airplane to hang up. And I'm like, okay. But uh yeah, so uh luckily there was a lot of wine winemakers around in around there because it was a big facility, and it was in the uh 2004, 2005. That was when uh what's that movie Sideways came up? Yeah, I think Sideways came in in 2004. So there was like a lot of winemakers, a lot of people making wine. Uh it was like a little community there because I was asking questions like, hey, what do you think about this? What do you think about that? You know, what do you think about this wine? And everything went pretty well. So yeah, so shout out to ATN, you know. Still, I still call him when I first uh when I started my brand last year. I he was the first guy that I called because I told him, Hey man, because of you, I'm I'm here, and I gotta thank, you know, always be thankful because you know, you kind of showed me the love of of this wine of the wine industry.

SPEAKER_04 1:57

Welcome everybody back uh to Barrels and Roots Podcast. I'm Sean Trace, I'm your host, and I've got an awesome guest with me today. Would you like to tell people who you are and a little bit about what you do?

SPEAKER_02 2:06

Hey, how's it going? Uh, thank you for having me. Uh, my name is Junio Vargas Ojeda. Um, winemaker for Cali Custom Crush, and I just recently did my own brand, which is uh Santo Diablo Wine Company. Just started that was a long ago, so not even a year ago, but it's a brand. That's really awesome, man.

SPEAKER_04 2:25

How did how did you get into winemaking? What was it that kicked off this whole path for you and started you down this journey?

SPEAKER_02 2:31

Oh man, I think it was kind of luck. You know, I graduated from high school in 1999. I wasn't sure was it what was I gonna do? I was thinking of going to college, probably just hang out for a year, just kind of just test the waters, see what I was gonna do. I wasn't sure. And a cousin of mine worked in a winery and the valley. He was a bottling guy, and he's like, hey, so what's your plans? And I told him my plans, and he's like, hey, if you want, come work with me. You know, we need we need people over here to work in the bottling line. So I ended up going, and that's my first winery that I ended up with. Um 1999, working my first harvest there at End of Valley. Uh, and that's how it, that's how it began pretty much. Uh started working in the bottling line, then harvest came along, and I was a night shift. So, of course, because I was a new guy, so like, hey, we, you know, you're gonna work in the night shift for harvest. And I didn't know what to expect. I was just 19, so I was like, okay, let's let's go. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:38

How um was there like a specific bottle or moment that made you fall in love with wine before you even worked with the seller, or was it just some perfect chance that made you like take this path?

SPEAKER_02 3:49

Uh um not really. Uh at that time, you know, I didn't know much about wine. My family didn't drink wine. There were kind of beer drinkers. Uh we were, I mean, our family customer far farming, right? So uh my mom was a farmer, my dad was a farmer, they were working anywhere with strawberry fields, you know, and then later on in the vineyards. But I, you know, I didn't have any exposure to wine other than when I started working 1999 there, I was the it was the Chardonnay and the Pinot Noir from San Luis Obispo County. And I I didn't think of it as a drink because it was just more like a job. Um but yeah, there wasn't any specific till later on when I started getting into winemaking man, I started kind of realizing the flavors and you know, all different types of wine that was out there. But at the beginning, it was just no, there wasn't much. It was just Charnay and Pinot Noir for me, and it wasn't something that I was kind of liking it because it was I was so young, you know.

SPEAKER_04 4:54

It just was what came along. Now, this leads me to asking, like, because you know Kelly answered my second question. Like, you so you didn't have wine as part of your family culture, it was something that you guys found later.

SPEAKER_02 5:04

Yeah, it was. Um, it was till I found my mentor, pretty much, that I started falling in love with wine because for me it was just work. Um, I mean, my my dad is a hardworking guy, and yeah, and every time I was working with him, it was just, you know, this is what you have, you know, your word and you're hardworking. You know, you gotta be a hard worker, you know. This is so that's how I kind of ended up working in that field. I was always thinking about my dad, you know, he was teaching me the how to, you know, how to become a better person, as guess as a worker, because I don't know, I was kind of like that thing, you know, in my life. So we never had that exposure um of you know of that.

SPEAKER_04 5:52

I do I get it. Um my parents don't drink any wine, and so I I found wine on my own, man, and I I so I'm 100% on the same boat. Like, yeah, it was something that I found like later on. My family moved up to the Napa Valley, and then I was just like, damn, what's all this, you know, stuff. And I started tasting it, and I was like, this tastes like shit. And like, and then yeah, my first glass of wine. I was like, this is not something that I really enjoy. But then my friends were like, try out some other wines, and then finally I was like, I tried something, I was like, Well, that that's not bad. I can understand why someone would like that, you know? And so I kept trying different wines and I slowly got into it. But like you started talking there about a mentor. Tell me a little bit about how your mentor, who was your mentor, how did you find them and how did that relationship develop?

SPEAKER_02 6:36

Uh yeah, shout out to uh ATN Turlington. He's he's the guy that kind of uh helped me fell in love with this. And I always tell him he's uh he's a winemaker, he has his own brand called uh Cordona Santa Barbara in Builton now, but at that time I met him in 2000, I think it was 2002, 2000 and early 2000s. I was uh sorry, worked in Endo Valley, and then um I only worked for a year and then I decided to go back to college. So I was going back to community college and I needed I needed money at that time. And uh us for us in a Mexican family, you know, you need money, you gotta work for it. They don't they don't give you money, you know. So right. I needed I needed the money and I was like, oh, I need to go work or something. My mom's like, Yep, you need money, you gotta go work and go to school at the same time. And that's what I ended up doing. So I ended up applying at a uh at that time at a place where they find you jobs. I can't remember at the like a tape at tape tape, tape tape H and C jobs. And they're at they asked me, like, what do you know how to do? I'm like, oh, I work in the winery. Uh worked in the winery for a year. You know, I was a dishwasher and you know during my high school years, blah, blah, blah. So like, okay, winery. Oh, there's a there's a wine, there's a it happened to be harvest. So like it's harvest hat going on right now at Telso's place in San Maria, you want to go? I'm like, yep. So I went there and I met A10. A10 was a seller master, and he's like, hey, uh, you know, since you worked in a winery before, you you know, basically the first thing you learn in a winery is cleaning. That's it. You know, clean everything, everything has to be spotless, clean. So I knew how to do that because that's pretty much the first year that I did. It was just clean tanks, clean everything, like all this, and inside and out, there were polished and everything. So uh 18's all like, make sure this uh custom crush, you know, this is at the stemmer, this is where the clients come in and process the fruit, you know, make sure this place is clean, as clean as you can get it. I'm like, okay. So that was my job. So I make sure everything was clean every day, and and um he was a Navy SEAL, so he uh 810 was in it's in the Navy SEAL. He was in the reserves also, and then doing the winemaking. So he was like really like particular on cleaning. So even though I knew how to clean it, he was always pointing stuff out to me. He's like, Oh, see this, see that, you know, blah blah blah. And you know, I kind of worked through there to the harvest. He loved what I did, and he offered me the full-time position after harvest. He's like, Listen, uh, there's gonna be a full-time, I want you to come with me. I like the way you work. You want to work with me? I ended up going, I ended up going full-time and then part-time school. Um, that first year that I started going full-time, he got a job as a winemaker. So he left his position in the company where I started because of him and went somewhere else to work as a winemaker. Um, and then later on, I think I worked there a year, and when the second year he pulled me in, he's like, Hey, I need I need help with uh with the winemaking here, you know. Since not I'm not the not the winemaker, I need some help because a client's bringing in more fruit, whatever. And and I went with him. So he explained to me everything, you know, like apples and oranges, you know. So he was like, this because of this reason, this is why you do this, this is why you this is why we add bentonite to the wine, this is why we chill the tanks, you know, etc. Um, and in the other positions where I worked at, because I worked with big companies, uh, or custom crush facilities, it was just do that, do that, go help this guy, you know, no explanation. With A10, he was kind of like telling me everything, like, why is there there's a reason why we do this, there's a reason why we, you know, go here, or we there's a reason why we wait to do to do certain things. So uh over time, you know, I I worked with him for probably five or six years, and there was one time when he was like, Hey, um, we're paying you too much. I can't, you you reached your limit on payment, you gotta give me something else. So I'm willing to pay for your schools to get a viticultural course in Hancock because I was going to community college, and then once you get that, then we could pay you more. And I was like 24 years old. So I was like, I want the money, you know, I want to get more money. I wasn't sure yet that that was gonna be my career, so I just started going. I went to this courses, and as I went there, I started appreciating more wine and how you know unique it is. You know, so that's how like it kind of it kind of came, you know, with A Tin and uh it fell in love with that. I have more stories since he was uh he was in the Navy, so that guy uh tell me tell me stories, man. That's awesome. Uh one year he had to go to uh on a mission or it wasn't a mission, it was like I think it was in like 2004, he had to work with uh Mexico military, uh Fuerza Sociales or something like that. He couldn't tell me because he was in the Navy, so he's like, listen, I gotta go for for about eight months. So I I want to say he left like in the middle of harvest, and it was just it was just me and some other guy trying to finish the harvest. And uh by fire, man. Oh dude. Um, but he gave me that confidence. He's al he was always there. He was like always calling me. He called me with this weird number, like 800, you know, big number, and he was in a helicopter. He's like, Hey, who do you else are going? You hear the chops. I'm like, hey, yeah, uh I have a question. You know, I have this, that going on. What do you think? Oh, yeah, you got it, buddy. You got it. Listen, I gotta go because I have a jump on an airplane to hang up. And I'm like, okay. But uh yeah, so uh luckily there was a lot of wine winemakers around in around there because it was a big facility, and it was in the uh 2004, 2005. That was when uh what's that movie Sideways came up? Yeah, I think Sideways came in in 2004. So there was like a lot of winemakers, a lot of people making wine, and uh it was like a little community there because I was asking questions like, hey, what do you think about this? What do you think about that? You know, what do you think about this wine? And everything went pretty well. So, but yeah, so shout out to ATN, you know. Still, I still call him when I first uh when I started my brand last year. I he was the first guy that I called. Because I told him, hey man, you know, because of you, I'm I'm here and I gotta thank, you know, always be thankful because you know, you kind of showed me the love of of this wine of the wine industry. He's uh his family's from Belgium, so he's French, so he was bringing in some French uh interns, and I kind of learned through that too. And just the way he was he he you know he taught me or showed me how to the the wine process goes is the way that I kind of yeah kind of fell in love with that.

SPEAKER_04 14:23

When you have someone who believes in you, someone who sets out that path, and like um, it really changes directions, you know. It's like and like I wanted to ask you too, because you know, that transition point where you have someone who believes in you. I remember like I I I I studied martial arts, it's totally different genre thanks. But like I had a teacher one day and he was like, Hey, I can't come into class. Um, you're leading class tonight. And I remember that, like, what? Like, you know, I'm leading class tonight, you know. It's like, yeah, it's like I got an emergency. Yeah, you know, it's yeah, it's super scary, and you're suddenly like, oh dude, I don't feel like I can lead class, but then you start putting yourself through the motions, and people around you like support you as you step up, you know. And that's the cool thing. It's like most of the people around you want to see you succeed, you know, and so they're just like they are like, Yeah, man, keep it up, do what you're doing. But you know, I I want to ask you because there was a point where I transitioned from this like feeling like I was just always a student to being like, you know, I'm I'm I'm a teacher as well. But like, uh, at what point did you go from like I work in wine to I'm a winemaker? Was there like a moment where you realized that? Like where you popped a bottle and you're like, I made this shit, you know?

SPEAKER_02 15:36

I think now that I'm making my brand, that's when that's when I start thinking, okay, this is real. I'm the winemaker. But in reality, I was the way I was taught by my dad was you know, treat your product treat whatever's products like if it's yours. So every single time I would work in the because I worked 15 years uh as a seller master somewhere else, and I started working there, and I made wine for so many other clients. And every single time I had a chance to touch that wine to do something with that wine, I was always like being out in my mind. I was always thinking that's I'm gonna treat it like if it's mine, you know. I'm the owner, I want the best for this wine, I don't want to mess it up. So if uh so every time I see like reviews on some other clients, like uh high good reviews or good points, I knew that I touched that wine and I was like proud of that, you know. Uh but to say that I was like a winemaker, I have to say another shout out to uh this other guy, um uh Michael Haddex. He's the guy that has his uh custom crush where I'm working as a winemaker, which is uh uh Cali Custom Crush. He's he called me up. So he called me, he was a winemaker uh at a place that I was working at as a Selemaster. He was the grape producer, so he was the one that was looking for the grapes for the clients and you know, did all that. Um he left uh sooner after that. I stayed there, and then late years uh in 2023, he calls me. He's like, Hey, um, I'm building this custom crush. Uh I need a winemaker. Are you willing to work with me, you know, as as a winemaker? I'm all like, oh, okay. I never had the title, right, of winemaker. I've always been, you know, but I was working with Etienne, I had the cellar master assistant winemaker, and then uh the economy went down in 2006. And then I started moving somewhere else. You know, a lot of a lot of wineries closed down, and then I got a job as a cellar master somewhere else where I worked 15 years. Anyway, so he calls me, he's all like, hey, um, are you willing to come over, become a winemaker, have this client, you know, blah, blah, blah. I'm starting this, this custom crush. And I said, sure, let's go. So I guess that point, uh I was always, even though I knew what to do with the wine, I kind of always needed to tell the client or the winemaker or the owner, hey, based on this, um, I think it needs a little bit of that, you know. And and they would be like, Oh, yeah, you're right. Oh, no, let's just tweak it a little less or so. With uh with Michael, I was like, hey, Michael, I think it needs, hey Mike, I need it eats this. He's like, Junio, you got it. You got it, Matt. Go for it. And I'm like, are you sure? Yeah, yeah, you got it. You you know, it's all you. So that's when I started making uh the first vintage 2023. Uh, we did we we did around, I don't know, 35 different varietals. Um that's right. Yeah. So that's a lot of varietals. You know, we did some Pinot, Malbec, Tor Torantes, Fermentino, you know, a lot of stuff that I never did, you know, because I was so used to San Mario Hills, which is Pinot Chardonnay, you know, and so on. Uh, and here in Paso it was a little bit different. Um, so it turned out pretty well. So once I got the first two lots, you know, the first fruit came in, I got the analysis, I started doing the processing, and then I started tasting the wine or how I was aging, and I was like, dude, this tastes really great. Okay, it gave me the confidence. Okay, now it's I'm official winemaker, I make the decisions for this wine, and you know, it was like more in that area, you know, so yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:53

That's awesome, man. Well, and it makes me think about a couple things because it's like there's that moment where where you cross that line from thinking about something, liking something, and just being absolutely doing it, you know? And it's like it and it it it sneaks up on you. I might remember my wife, my wife is a professional singer, and I asked her once if there was a moment where she was um standing on stage and it changed. And she said, like when she was younger, she would sing with her parents and they should go to these small venues and stuff. She was always singing, right? But there was one day where she got onto this big show and the lights were on her, and she just looked out at the audience and she's like, Oh, oh, I'm here now, you know. And then when she won this big award, she was just like, damn, man, it was different. Whole game changed for her, you know, and that was wild because it was something that was just it was uh she didn't change, but that confidence clicked over and that that that thought, you know what I mean? She was the same person, but like I also want to ask you because you pursued your degree while working already in the industry. What made you go back and what did it change for you?

SPEAKER_02 21:04

Uh at first when I started going back for the physical terminology, I only um it was just because of the I was 23, 24. It was just because uh I wanted to get paid more, right? Because ATM was like, Abe, if you want some reason, man, you know. Yeah, he's like, if you want if you want more money, like you're because he told me he's like, you're at the top right now. I cannot put you in as a winemaker because you don't have a degree, blah, blah, blah. So give me a something. So I was like, okay, well, at that time there was some, you know, it was it was in 2003, so and at the community college, they didn't have that many classes yet for biticulturalogy. So I just started taking some classes because of that.

unknown 21:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:46

I got the associate's degree of viticultural. It wasn't the bachelor's or anything, but it was something for him, you know, to be okay, I can call you uh the winemaker or assistant winemaker for for this. So yeah. So it but at the beginning it was because of this. But then after that, after I started getting involved with him, you know, and knowing the wine and falling in love with the wine, then I started to take some classes for myself, you know, because I want to learn more. Uh yeah. You know, there's there's so much stuff that you still I still don't know. You know, the the winery is so big. I mean, yeah, just the vinger itself, you know, to to understand the vines itself, it's just another and that's another world.

SPEAKER_04 22:30

That's on something that I wanted to ask you because like there are people who come in and they're they're super cool people. Like I did this job and I transitioned to wine, I did this job and I transitioned to winemaking. It's interesting because there's a lot of people that come from like different areas, but your family were farmers, man. Like, and like I respect, I respect people that can grow things. My great aunt was a um, I can't even remember what title she had, but she was just so good with plants. And she was an expert on like all types of plants, and she lived in Canada, and they brought her into like the uh University of Toronto, she was like a special like like uh guest there all the time because they would have any type of plant and uh like it's not growing. She'd walk in there and be like and it just you know, it just grew. She was wild. Yeah, you know, she had that ability, man. And you know, do you think that coming from family that that worked with plants, worked with the land, that you have a different understanding than other winemakers might?

SPEAKER_02 23:33

I do understand, you know, the the effort that comes with it, you know, like it takes a lot of work for a lot of work. It takes a lot of work and helped, you know, I come when I was at high school, every time I every time I got out, I have to go help my dad. You know, that's how it was. Summer school, there were there wasn't a summer break for me. I was out in the fields, you know, for summer, for winter, same thing, you know. And my dad worked in the vineyard kind of late, you know, when I was in high school. So I was going out there, help him out too, you know, uh every chance I can't, every chance I get. So um, yeah, like people that know the work in the field, they're farmers. Uh it kind of gives you a different feeling, you know, when you're touching a fruit, it kind of gives you that edge. I don't know. For me, it is. For me, it's something like I know where it comes from, I know how hard it is to pick it, I know how hard it is to grow it, I know how hard it is to get it this good, too. It's not just watering it, you know.

SPEAKER_04 24:42

It's a lot of work, man. And I think that's one of the things people don't realize. I don't think people realize that for all of our food. Like you're eating a nice juicy watermelon, people don't realize the amount of work that went into growing that. You know, strawberries, especially strawberries, man, there's a lot, it's an intensive thing to grow, you know? Yeah, and I I wish more people could get out. I think one of the best things my dad ever did was when we were kids, my dad's like, All right, kids, we're gonna go out and help your help your art his he his friend said, Hey, I got peanuts that need to be picked, harvested. Bring your kids out and let them do some work and see what it's like. That shit was hard, man. It was really, really hard. You know, dig up peanuts out of the ground. It was like, I was just like, maximum respect for people, anyone who works with food, man. It's what's wild like that. But I want to ask you another question too. Like, if you were to like pour three glasses of wine right now for a new person who's just like experiencing wine, what what wine would you pour for someone?

SPEAKER_02 25:40

Um oh man, um, definitely I'll do probably some uh some sweet wine. So I'll probably do probably a sweet Rizzling to begin with. Maybe a uh I I started with port, port wine. I kind of like that. It's kind of strong and sweet. Yeah. So I started with port, so it's a port, some some risling, and maybe some dry Chardonnay at the end. But yeah, so my first drink, I think it was port, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:07

I like that. Well, I want to ask you this like what part of the wine make of winemaking and the process still gives you the most joy, even after all these years? What do you really love?

SPEAKER_02 26:18

Everything, really. Uh the the thing that kind of gets me like uh at the beginning of harvest is just seeing that fruit come in. And I like taking a bite, taking a bite of that first cluster that comes in, and just tasting the sweetness, you know, savor it, and then thinking, oh, this is gonna be a good wine. Or just by tasting it, you'll know if it needs something. Like for me, in my case, I'm like, okay, it's not it's not too sweet, you know, it's probably low in sugar or you know, but the taric is not there, the acid's not there, it's probably gonna need some uh acid there later on. Who knows? But just tasting that berry at the beginning of harvest, for me, it's it's something else. You know, it's like almost a must-have of religion for me, every every single time, every harvest. You know, I love it. I love when it comes in and then I love how it ferments too. You know, once you get in the cellar and everything's fermenting, you get all these smells in the cellar. So yeah, for me, it's gotta be that the beginning of a harvest.

SPEAKER_04 27:24

That's awesome. I think the one thing that I I miss, I I I I've I've I live in Southeast Asia now, but like I grew up in the Napa Valley. And one of the things that I tell people, like I told my wife, I tried to describe to her the smells in and around like wine country, whether it be in Paso or Sonoma or wherever you're at Napa, like when around after harvest, I was like, you don't understand how this smells here. It's like it's wild. And we were driving, and she's just like the whole area smells like wine, and like she was just like, dude, this is amazing. People don't get that, they don't understand it, so they go there. It's wild, it smells so damn good, man. Yeah, yeah. I want to ask you this is there a wine you made that you're proud of and and what made it special to you? Like one that really stands out. I'm sure you're proud of most of them, but one that really popped.

SPEAKER_02 28:20

I like all of them, but I think Pinot Noir has something in my heart, you know, because my dad was, like I said, he's a farmer, and he all the conversations I had with him at the end of his life, because he's no longer here, but every single time I was here, I was there at his house, he was always talking about Pinot Noir. He's like Pinot Noir, the plant's so delicate, this and this and that, you know, uh we pick it, you know, you have to be careful with it. All the winemakers are really uh, you know, picky about it and yadda yadda yaddy. So every single time I'm in the winery and I'm making wine, I think about my dad. But every single time I'm doing the Pinot, it's it's me thinking about him and you know the work he did. So I I'll say Pinot. Pinot is one of the things that, you know, every single time I make something and you tasting it, it brings you back.

SPEAKER_04 29:20

What what is it about Pinot that you think actually pops? Like what is it about Pinot that that the taste or something? What makes it really special to you?

SPEAKER_02 29:28

Uh for me is just that. It's just that like where we're where my dad kind of worked at, you know, he did, you know, plant, you know, he talked about it, the conversations. It's not it's not more, it's not the taste, it's just that feeling that goes behind that, you know, the memory kind of.

SPEAKER_04 29:49

For sure, man. The memory makes a difference, man. You know, then the wine that you love. Well, what wine do you love to hate? You know, what wine is like one that you got this love-hate relationship with, man.

SPEAKER_02 30:00

Oh, just on winemaking, the for me, the hardest one that I that I deal with. I mean, it's just not because of the it's just because of the the climate or kind of doesn't ripe well or it's hard to get it the perfect, you know, perfect every single time. For me, it's Grenache, one of them. Grenache is really hard for me. Uh just because of the clusters so big, and then you get some really nice colors on the front, but on the back it's like green, because there wasn't any sun exposure or the sugar didn't, you know, etc. So when it when it gets to fermentation or when you when you finish fermentation and suppress, the flavor for me is not there. I'm I'm uh I like really picky for myself, but you know, some clients are like, oh, perfect. But for me, it's like I know it's better. I taste it better. I tasted a lot of grenache and I really good grenache, and for me, this isn't it, isn't it? So yeah, for me, it's one of those, yeah, kind of tough hard to write. Yeah, I mean, it's hard to get it right, or you know, because I don't have uh saying in the picking or the bring it, you know, because a farmer, most most of the time the farmer brings it in and they're like, it's ready, it's ready, you know, the bricks are good, and and then they bring it in and it's not, or or the client picks it too early, for me in my case. And so I never got a perfect grenache per se that I kind of want to say this is perfection, it's not, it's always something, you know, off.

SPEAKER_04 31:33

It's always from the mouth, that's wild.

SPEAKER_02 31:35

Yeah, like I mean, the flavor-wise for just the clusters.

SPEAKER_04 31:38

It's tricky, you know. It's tricky to figure out how to get things right all the time, man. I mean, and in lots of areas, but there's some things that are harder than others, you know? Which leads to another question I've got. Like, why should people care about wine? Why do you think wine is still so important for us?

SPEAKER_02 31:56

Oh man. Wine's been here forever. If you think about it, yeah, man, it's been here for a long time. I mean, the first miracle Jesus did was wine. It was in a it was it was in a wedding, and there was any wine, and they're like, hey, make some wine, and he probably made some uh red wine. I don't know. Just by that, you know, that kind of tells you everything. I'm like, wow, Jesus made his first miracle was making wine, and it's amazing. You know what I mean? And it's something he didn't do beer, you didn't, you know, you didn't say, Hey, I'm gonna make beer instead of wine, and you know, or you know, something else, or you know, but just wine's been here for a long time. It has a lot of history. It's the only wine, I think it's one of the only ones that could evolved in a bottle. Uh tequila won't do that. Tequila will evolve then, you know, in a barrel. But once it's out from the barrel to a bottle, that's it. You know, you could age that tequila for 30 years and it will taste the same. It's not gonna make a difference. Any wine could age. Any obviously any good wine will age better than others, but you know, you can get a cheap symphonil and put it in a shelf for five years and it'll still evolve. It might not be good, right? Because it wasn't meant for aging, because there's certain wine supposed to be made for age, but it will evolve. And you know, so just that too. I mean, wine evolves in a bottle. That's uh that's insane. And having it, all that history, that's even you know, crazier. And being part of that too, it's it's amazing.

SPEAKER_04 33:42

Well, let me ask you this one too. Um, when you open a bottle at home just for yourself, what are you usually opening?

SPEAKER_02 33:49

Uh yeah, I do I like the blends myself. So so on my brand, Tato Diablo, it's I'm trying to do everything blends. Uh it's not gonna be a single variety. So I like the red wines. I like some blends, you know, cab merlot blend, you know, Malbeth Merlot's. Uh this one uh, you know, so for personally, I like red wines. So uh if I do open a bottle, it's gonna be a red wine with some. Obviously, I like a lot of meat. Uh, I do barbecues a lot, so it goes good with that. So definitely red wines.

SPEAKER_04 34:22

I love it, man. I'm a huge red fan as well. Yeah. It's uh yeah, I I love reds and it's it's kind of my go-to. If people want to learn, like if someone wants to get into winemaking, where would you tell them to start, man?

SPEAKER_02 34:36

If you if they really love to want, I think start from the bottom. I think you want to you definitely need to start from the bottom, and that will kind of give you an idea of the stuff that needs to do on a daily basis. Because people don't kind of people want to be in the wine business, but they don't understand the whole production process or the you know, 90% of the time it's just cleaning, you know, grinding, you know, making sure the barrels are clean inside and out, you know, everything has to be, you know, cleaning, cleaning, cleaning, and more cleaning. Yeah, so I think start from the beginning, start from the basic production. You know, I started for bottling and then moved to production. So um, yeah, for sure. Definitely I'll say uh start from the bottom production, and then you'll understand the whole the big the principles of I guess of the concepts.

SPEAKER_04 35:32

I I got started in filmmaking a long time ago. It was really interesting because when I got started in filmmaking, I got onto this big movie production, and at the very bottom, I was like the lowest of the low, man. And it was it was rough, you know, but like I just was like, you know, it was you know 12 to 18 hour days, but it was fun as hell, dude. And I got to watch these people work, I got to sit there and be in like be in it with all these people that were really famous and really good. And I just sat there and was just like, but the thing is, is like if I had tried to, you know, shortcut that step and get to a different level faster, I wouldn't have learned the real important foundation. And you know, so I just was like, one of the things that I find that's important for learning any skill is coming at it with a degree of humility, like understanding you do not have all the answers, you are starting out, and that you just gotta start out somewhere. And it's like not be stressed about that, not beat yourself up, like, oh, I should know more. No, you shouldn't. You're where you're at, and be cool with that. Be cool with just starting out and starting somewhere. Um, if you could go back in time and change one thing about your path, like of learning wine, what would you change or what advice would you give your younger self to to to like be further along?

SPEAKER_02 36:54

Yeah, I think probably don't be afraid of starting my own brand. Like, I I was it was always in my head to start uh in even in 2006, it was in my head to start the brand. And I never got a chance to do it because I was too scared, you know, didn't want to commit to to having that amount of money invested in the in the in your brand or in your business. I was like, oh, that's too much. I can't afford that right now. I'm just gonna wait. Yeah. So just not pulling the trigger swinger just because I was too scared of you know, commitment of your brand and knowing you don't you don't know right now. I don't even know how my brand's gonna do right now, right? But I'm like more, I guess I have I'm I'm less scared, you know, because I've been doing it forever. So I'm just kind of kind of want to do it for my for not for me, it's gonna be for my for my for my kids because I have two little girls and they're starting to like wine. I mean, not like wine, but they're smelling it. I'm telling them, hey, smell this. What do you sm what do you smell here? They're like, oh, uh peaches, you know, and so for me it's like I wish I would have started this sooner, wish I would have started that, you know, the brand. And who knows where I would have been right now, but yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:08

That's awesome, man. If people want to learn about you and what you're doing and the wine that you make, where should they go look uh and find out more about you?

SPEAKER_02 38:16

Uh I mean you can you can look up uh salto diablo wines.com. I mean, I don't have much, it's just uh Ig right now, and um I haven't started my website, uh it's on the works, but definitely there, check it out, and you'll see some some posts.