Precision, Pesticides, and Puzzles | Linsi Luckett | Barrels & Roots

In this episode of Barrels & Roots, I sit down with Linsi Luckett, lead horticulturalist, agronomist, licensed pest control advisor, and FAA-certified drone pilot at Sunridge Nurseries - the largest grapevine-producing nursery in North America. 

Linsi breaks down the side of wine most people never think about: what it actually takes to grow a healthy vine before it ever reaches a vineyard. We get into the science of grafting and rootstock, why Vitis vinifera can't survive in American soil without it, how terroir starts long before harvest, and the real challenges growers face today from water scarcity and climate unpredictability to rising labor and fertilizer costs. Linsi also shares how a career rooted in ecology taught her that patience isn't just good farming - it's a way of life. 

Her philosophy of respecting the journey over chasing the end result is something every wine drinker, grower, and honestly anyone trying to slow down in a fast world can take something from.

Do you think about where your food or wine actually comes from, or is it something you've never really considered until now?

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I think everybody kind of has this, you know, when we talk about farmers or growers, you know, one guy on a tractor, you know, out there getting it done. And it's actually a ton of labor that goes into farming, you know. And I think that's something that people don't and the logistics, you know, of farming. So you're not just growing stuff, of course, you know, you got to look at the market and and, you know, come hiring crews to come in and harvest, or, you know, there's just a lot of moving parts that I think people don't often realize, you know, that go into farming. And then that's just uh kind of the tip of the icebergs. There's a whole lot more. You know, there's you have to consider the water, you have to consider the soil, you know, there's just a ton. And then um kind of the cost of operations too, like how much it actually costs to farm. You don't just plant, you know, a nice orchard and it just runs itself and and everything just, you know, goes to market and this guy makes money. No, there's a ton that goes into it. And then uh the care that goes into it. You know, it's not so simple as, you know, let's just go out and uh, this is a big one, a hot topic, of course, the use of pesticides and chemical fertilizers. It wouldn't be easy just to go out and say, oh yeah, these guys are just spray jockeys. They're covering the world and this stuff. And that's not the case at all. You know, there's licensed professionals out there, it's their job to make sure that these things are used correctly and safely. You can see a lot of how misinformation kind of gets in, like, you know, through various, you know, outlets of of what farmers actually do. And we're kind of hated by the public in a lot of ways, you know, and it's not fair.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Welcome everybody back to the Barrels and Roots podcast. I'm your host, Sean Trace, and I have an awesome guest with me today. Would you like to tell people who you are and a little bit about what you do?

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Sure. My name is Lindsay Luckett. So I'm the lead horticulturalist and agronomist for Sunridge Nurseries, which is the largest grapevine-producing nursery in North America. I basically run the agronomy horticulture program. So anything all, you know, plant health related, that's all kind of my thing. And in addition to that, I'm also our agricultural PCA, which is a pest control advisor. And I'm also our drone pilot as well.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

That's right. That's a lot of cool stuff. And you caught me off guard at the drone pilot part as well. Like that was like the icing on the cake right there, man. I didn't expect all of that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Yeah, I heard the other day that there's only the less than 10 women in California that are licensed and certified uh in the same way that I am to do what I do.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

So it's actually kind of cool. What do you do with drones? Because that wasn't in the stuff that I looked up on you. Can you talk to me about that?

SPEAKER_01 2:31

So there's a couple different things. Well, first of all, so I'm licensed by the FAA to fly, you know, unmanned aerial to drones, basically, uh weighing up to 55 pounds. And then I have what's called an exemption that enables me to fly one that's over 55 pounds. And I'm certified through the California Department of Pesticide regulation to uh use said very large drone for agricultural operations. So things like spraying, um, imaging, anything like that.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

That's rad because like I when I was a kid, I used to live out in in different regions that were more agricultural and would see the the the crop dusters come down and fly through the valleys. And I was just like, I was like, well, I wonder, are are they still doing it that way? Or are we using drones for some things like that now too?

SPEAKER_01 3:18

Yeah, no, 100%. They still do traditional aerial applications and drones aren't gonna replace that, you know, anytime soon at least. Uh there's some stuff that drones just can't do. Um, but for someone like us, you know, it's very niche what we do. Uh, we the drones are awesome. We can actually use them in small plots of land because you think about calling out like an airplane or helicopter to do like five acres. It's such a small, you know, area. And uh also, too, as far as that goes with trying to schedule something like that, you know, like if you need to have a helicopter or airplane come out, um, can take time. And unfortunately in agriculture, there's no such thing as like spare time. You know, if you're there's a problem, you need to get to it right away. So having a drone, you can totally just like, you know, get out there and and and get it done quicker.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

That's really interesting. Well, yeah, I I I am fascinated by that, but I wanted to to to ask you because this podcast is a lot about, you know, I I focus on and I did shift a little bit things too, because I I I really for my my barrels of roots podcast is about wine and and and growing things. And like one of the things too is like I think with food in general is people don't understand that it comes from a place, it is grown, you know. You go to the supermarket and you see all this wonderful stuff year-round. When I lived overseas, we didn't have some of the big supermarkets, so we had all these fresh markets, and so certain parts of the year you couldn't get certain foods, you know, and it's so interesting. And I love I love seasonal markets, I love farmers' markets because you see that as well. This time of year, we're gonna be getting plums, and then plums are done for the year, you know. But you've spent years working directly with plants in the land. What's something that most people completely misunderstand about how things actually grow?

SPEAKER_01 5:15

Um, I think probably the biggest thing is what actually goes into it. I think everybody kind of has this, you know, when we talk about farmers or growers, you know, one guy on a tractor, you know, out there getting it done. And it's actually a ton of labor that goes into farming, you know, and I think that's something that people don't and the logistics, you know, of farming. So you're not just growing stuff, of course, you know, you gotta look at the market and and you know, come hiring crews to come in and harvest, or you know, there's just a lot of moving parts that I think people don't often realize, um, you know, that go into farming. And then that's just uh kind of the tip of the icebergs. There's a whole lot more. You know, there's you have to consider the water, you have to consider the soil, you know, there's just a ton. And then um kind of the cost of operations too, like how much it actually costs to farm. You don't just plant, you know, a nice orchard and it just runs itself and and everything just, you know, goes to market and this guy makes money. No, there's a ton that goes into it. And then uh the care that goes into it. You know, it's not so simple as, you know, let's just go out and, you know, uh, this is a big one, a hot topic, of course, the use of pesticides and chemical fertilizers. And uh it wouldn't be easy just to go out and say, oh yeah, these guys are just spray jockeys or covering the world and this stuff. And that's not the case at all. You know, there's licensed professionals out there, it's their job to make sure that these things are used correctly and safely. And so I think that's kind of you can see a lot of how misinformation kind of gets in, like, you know, through various, you know, outlets of of what farmers actually do. And we're kind of hated by the public in a lot of ways, you know, and it's not fair.

SPEAKER_00 6:49

You know, it's interesting that we we've had such a push to you see it everywhere. Tell kids to go to college, tell people to do this, tell, you know, but reality is our whole world functions off of farmers, you know, and it's like my my great-great-grandma was a cattle farmer, and you know, my mom would grow up on the cattle farm all the time, and you know, she would tell me stories about working with the cattle and stuff that was just so cool. And yet I was like, you know, I grew up with my parents that were in academia, and so it was more removed than that, and yet, you know, I I loved it because my mom and my dad always would like they would take us out. My dad would say, We're gonna go, his friend had a peanut farm, and we went out and we worked the peanut farm. He's like, It's time to harvest the peanuts, and I was blown away by how hard it is to harvest peanuts, like, oh my goodness, it's really hard work digging these things up, but it was so rewarding at the same time, too, you know. But for for someone who's never worked in agriculture, what does a normal day actually look like for you? And what would most like people be surprised by?

SPEAKER_01 8:05

So a normal day for me, and this is gonna be kind of a funky answer, there is no normal day for me. It's a normal day for me, is an abnormal day, if that makes sense. So I do wear a lot of hats, you know, with the agronomy, the horticulture, the drone pilot, you know, all of these things. And I just I never know what each day is gonna bring. Uh, I like to see myself, my role as being like a problem solver, right? And I'm just supporting all these people, you know, that basically, you know, I work with every day. And so they'll, you know, come running to my office and this problem is happening here or here. And then I just help them, you know, the best that I can to solve these problems. And uh so yeah, sometimes I'm out in the field all day. I'll be out there scouting, which is, you know, just being out in the field looking for problems, you know, looking for insects that don't belong, you know, harmful ones and symptoms of plant diseases or, you know, abiotic factors, like maybe, you know, a water deficit causing, you know, water stress, things like that. So that's my favorite part of my job. I love being outside and I love just walking around the plants and just checking them out. And, you know, it's it's it's peaceful for me, you know. But uh, and then in the nursery is a little bit different. So maybe should I explain a little bit about how the nursery is?

SPEAKER_00 9:14

I'd love to, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

Sure. Okay, so as a grapevine nursery, we don't actually grow fruit. We actually grow the grapevines. We grow our own propagation materials out in the field. We've got about 950 acres. We harvest cuttings from those grapevines. So no fruit involved. We harvest cuttings, we bring those into the nursery where we graft them and then we plant them and grow them into, you know, kind of like little snaplings, if you will. And that's what people buy from us. And they take them out to their vineyards and plant them and grow them to produce the fruit. And so there's a lot of different moving parts, right? I'm working in the field trying to grow healthy, you know, propagation material, and then in the nursery trying to grow these little, you know, I say these little plants, they're little, but there's, you know, at capacity, we're like 20 million a year, you know, growing these vines. So um it's kind of all over the place, you know. I'm always on the on the move.

SPEAKER_00 10:06

Yeah, that's interesting. Well, I wanted to ask this because that's super interesting. And, you know, it's such a powerful part, but like of of the whole process, but people don't know about it, you know, they don't know about rootstock, they don't know about like how you graft, like what is grafting? Like, you talk to people who who are not in the plants, like, what is that? I remember I had a biology professor who explained but grafting to us, and we lived in front of a house. We lived in the house that he had sold, and what he had done, he had a one apple tree that he had grafted five different types of apples onto. Yes, and so yeah, and like when when when harvest time came around, he's like, Well, you're gonna enjoy that tree. And I was like, What are you talking about? And when it when the apples came out, it's just like, oh my goodness, I didn't know you could have five different types of apples on one tree, but there was, yeah, and it was a mess.

SPEAKER_01 10:55

Yeah, no, it's incredible. Yeah. So for us, the grafting process, of course, we've got the rootstock. So a grafted plant is like basically taking two different plants and splicing them together. And so in our case, we have what's called the rootstock, which is the lower part of the vine. This is what's going to have the roots. And then the top portion of the grafted vine is the scion, which is the variety of grape you're interested in growing. And there's a couple different reasons that this is even a thing, right? So the largest one is Vitis benefera. That's almost every grape you've ever seen in your life is Vitis binifera. It's just a lot of different varieties, and that's why you see so many different variations: wine grape, table grape, all the different flavors of wine, you know, whatever. So um it can't grow here. That's actually from the Caucas Mountains, Vitis benefera is. And there is a soil-borne insect that's everywhere in the United States. And so, since these Vitus vinifera vines aren't from here, there's no natural resistance to this pest. So the minute you plant a Vitus benefera directly in the soil, you're running the risk of this pest just wiping it out, right? So all of the native species, native grape species in the United States, already have this resistance because they've come up knowing this pathogen, this pest, you know. And so that's why we graft them. That's the number one reason why we graft them, is because it's a root, you know, it bores into the roots. So it's a little bit of protection. So this now can't affect your vitamin for scion because this root stocks in between, right? And so the other thing is there's so many different rootstocks, and there's all these different, you know, advantages to planting these different rootstocks. Some are accustomed to sandy soils or salty soils or waterlogged soils. And so now you can you you can say, here's where I want to grow these grapes. What rootstock would be best? And then it's, and I want to grow this variety. So now you can kind of piece together the vine you want to match with the environment that you're growing it in.

SPEAKER_00 12:59

That's fascinating. Yeah. And I had a basic understanding of rootstock, but that just made it way more cool because now I'm like, that's why that's wild.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

Oh yeah. Oh yeah, it's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

And you know, you've studied biology and now apply it to the real world, but how different is what you learned in school versus what the land is actually teaching you and the and like like other people showing you.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

You know, it's so funny. So I have a very interesting relationship with my education. I went to school and I was kind of a jack of all trades. I like to learn a little bit of everything, and I did the same in biology. Biology is a very vast field, there's a ton of different things you can study and specialize within biology. I was always poor pulled towards ecology, you know, which is the study of organisms and their environment. And I kind of thought I was gonna, you know, be a conservationalist and, you know, this is what I was gonna do. And then I ended up in agriculture and I realized this is still ecology, it's just a manipulated environment. You know, we're changing the landscape basically. But at the end of the day, it's still the same thing. You know, we're looking at our our species of interest, which is in this case our grapevines, you know, and then the different environments that we're putting them in. And so I feel like um, in a way, my job justifies my education, you know, because I get to use so much of my education as I go. Now, there are things when you start studying agriculture that so it's kind of like, how would I explain this? They make it look easy, you know. On paper, it looks very easy to go out and grow things and handle problems and deal with, you know, the issues that can pop up, and it is not that easy. There's like a lot more to it, and so I'd say that was that would probably be the you know the big difference there.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

That's really interesting. Well, I'm gonna ask you this one too, because in wine, a lot of people talk about terroir, terra. I can never say that word, and I do a wine podcast. Location, how the land shapes the final product. I I can speak fluent Vietnamese, I can pull off some basic Spanish, but my French sucks. And from your perspective, how real is the location? And like, what does it actually mean at a practical level of you working with like rootstock and and trying to figure out where that plant's going to be growing?

SPEAKER_01 15:20

Yeah. So that, you know, I really don't have a lot to do with the end product, which would be the wine, of course. So I'm just trying to start healthy vines, you know, to go out to the growers and then they plant them wherever. But I do understand the concept, I know what it is. And so, and it makes a lot of sense, like once you kind of think about it in a broader, maybe, you know, anthropomorphize it even a little bit. So we're all a product of our environment, right? And for plants, you know, or fruit, I guess in this case we're looking at the actual berries that you're going to use to make wine, you know, soil, climate, and geography, all of those things play a role in how those nutrients, you know, that are in the soil, they're being metabolized by the plant, they're being translocated within the plant to different areas. So all of those things can change the nutrient composition within, you know, these berries that you're getting ready to harvest for your wine. And, you know, it's it's easy to think of in terms of like coffee as well. So coffee grown from different regions, you know, you can definitely taste the difference. And so back to, you know, anthropomorphizing this, if you think about it, you know, as humans, you know, we're a product of what we take in as well. And you can, you know, clearly see that when it comes to, you know, things like cholesterol. You know, you eat bad stuff, right? You can have cholesterol, you know what I mean? So it's a it's a nice parallel, you know, to look at it. And I tend to do this. I I break things down like in a way I try to, in a way people can understand. It's like the coffee reference, you know, a lot of people are coffee drinkers and they're totally gonna get that, you know. But then some people it's a little easier to understand if you, you know, bring the human aspect into it as well. So as far as that goes, there are certain things that the climate can do that can change the flavor profile of any fruit, not just grapes. And think about Florida, you know, having issues, you know, with the freeze and what that did to the oranges, you know, and then so things that happen in the world can actually change the product at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

I love that. That's really interesting. And you know, it's like to me, you I love like when you talk about, you know, making it in different terms because I I see, you know, people who grow up in different regions, you know, and they just end up looking completely different because of the diet and the way they eat and how they live. You don't I there's so many other questions I have for you, but one of them is like, what are the biggest challenges growers are dealing with right now, whether it's climate, soil, health, water, or something people don't know about?

SPEAKER_01 17:43

Okay, so all of those things that you mentioned, you know, that's the water's a huge one, of course. Yeah, all of them. Uh, water's a big one. You know, of course, there's certain areas that don't have as much water to maybe, you know, do grow in the way that they would want to, because each each plant has its requirements, how much water it needs a year to grow and produce and you know, um get the desired effect out of it, basically. So with that being said, though, it's not all that bad. There's a lot of good technology out there, subsurface irrigation. You know, that's instead of overhead sprinkling micro drip, there's things we can do to conserve water, and there's things we can do to help the plants better use the water that they are given. So you're eventually you're reducing, right? Climate is a hard one because it's man, it's anybody's ballgame, you know, you never know. So we are in March, obviously. Here it's already 94 degrees. This is uncharacteristic. We're usually, you know, 70s, maybe low 80s here. All of a sudden this year it's just super hot and we could get up to, you know, 115, you know, is the highest. And then we have, you know, weather systems that come through that'll, you know, maybe it's happening on the coast, but it affects us here. Happens to other people and other places as well. But uh, you know, all of a sudden we'll get, you know, on seasonal rain, you know, which can wreak havoc or hail or anything like that. So climate's always something that you have to be, you know, mindful of. And then soils, of course, you're always looking at your soil health, you know. You want to keep you basically want to replenish what you're taking out, you know, and you do that through compost, you know, fertilizer, things like that. Um, so soil health is always water, you know, and soil health go hand in hand. So it's something you always want to look at. Um, some things that people might not think about. So cost of operations, you know, that's that's huge. And the cost of labor is insane, you know, and and in other countries they can afford to pay for hand labor, you know, because it's, you know, just different other countries as far as that goes. Here we can't, you know, we it's very expensive. So if you hire 20, 30 people to come in and hand weed your, you know, vineyard or orchard or or field, you know, that's that's a huge cost, you know. And then there's also too just the price of products, you know, always increasing. And I've gotten a ton of calls in the past week if I've noticed the cost of fertilizer going up. And of course, a lot of fertilizers are petroleum-based, you know, or got another conflict going on, you know, and then of course there's always the logistics side of, you know, nobody's getting through that straight anytime soon. So that's going to drive up the cost of products that growers use every day. So that's something that's commonly not thought about, I think.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

So interesting. Because you, yeah, yeah, you're right, products not getting through is a major problem. But you know, one of the things, yeah, we don't realize how many things, I think a lot of people don't realize how many things plants need. Like there's you know, there's a lot of little things that are now that have always been super important, but now when we have this global supply chain, that stuff doesn't get moving, you know. It's challenging, you know?

SPEAKER_01 20:50

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

One one of the things too is like there's a patience to working with plants that most modern lifestyles don't really allow that much. What is working in this field taught you about time control and letting things just happen at their own pace?

SPEAKER_01 21:06

So patience is key when it comes to farming or growing even house plants, you know. Anytime you're dealing with plants, patience is definitely key. But you definitely want to have a plan, you know. You want to give plants the time to I well, me anyways, personally, to do things naturally on their own time. You don't want to rush dormancy, you don't want to rush waking them up in the spring, you know. You kind of want to let them do their own thing because everything is what it is because it's been successful, right? When we start talking about like natural selection or, you know, I can go down that radical, but I won't. Uh, everything exists the way it does because it works. It worked for the parents of, you know, this organism and it was successful, you know, or that organism wouldn't exist, right? So when it comes to, you know, plants, you gotta kind of let them do their own thing, but be ready in case something goes wrong. You know, so patience, pain patience is huge for me. It's and this is how I live my life too, with this, you know, kind of concept of living gently, you know, be gentle, you know, with yourself, with everything around you, everyone around you. You know, don't be so disruptive, you know, in your day-to-day life when it comes to, you know, plants. Of course, that means not going in with harsh chemicals at the, you know, first, you know, drop of the hat, you know, or don't over-fertilize the soil because you're trying to push them to grow farther and faster, because ultimately that's not good for the longevity of a permanent crop. You know, we've all of our uh propagation plants, the ones we harvest from, you know, those are been around for 20 years in some cases. And so if I treat those like a race course every year, eventually they're gonna shut down, right? I'm gonna push them too far. And not to mention what pushing, you know, these vines to grow so I could get all these cuttings, what would that do to the quality of those vines? You know, there's a good chance that I could be doing something that's ultimately not gonna produce a good vine for you to buy and plant in your vineyard.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

I love that. What what do you think is the most fun part of your job? And what is the most challenging part of your job?

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Oh gosh. Okay, so I love all of my job. I love the problem solving. I'm a puzzle person. I love puzzles. You know, I love true crime because I think I can crack the case. You know, it's just the way my brain works. And I love that there are so many issues that happen every day that I get to jump in and help and be useful. But what really drew me to this job is probably the thing I love the most. And that's that uh, because I worked as a field scout for Mitt for years when I was still in college, and then uh I was out scouting fields. That's all I would do, though, is just look for these problems. You know, I wouldn't really know anything about finding the solutions, but I would find the problems and report them back. And then I kind of got into it and I started, I remember thinking, wow, if there was only a way to get healthy plants from the start, because a healthier plant is more resistant, right, to any issues that come along. And so this is my chance to do that. And it's so fulfilling to me to be able to do that, you know, really, you know, quality, quality plants coming, you know, out of our nursery is very important to me. So I love every aspect of that, including doing new things, trying new things that people haven't done before. You know, I love that. It's one of my favorite things. And uh also I guess, hmm yeah, I think the worst part of my job, I'll put it that way. So I write recommendations for pesticide uses. You have to be licensed into the state of California to do so. That's Jeff. I live in California. There's a lot of red tape, you know, with certain products and use of certain products. So I love puzzles so much, though. I'm out here finding the problem, formulating a solution, and then from there looking for that solution, how I can, you know, I can't use this product that I would like to use because you can't use it in California. So what else can I do? So that becomes a puzzle in itself. The solution itself becomes a puzzle.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

That's really interesting. Well, I want to ask this one too, because I I'm so fascinated. Like, when something goes wrong with with some of the crop that you're working on, what does the process look like and how much of a science versus instinct is to fix it?

SPEAKER_01 25:19

So that's a that's a funny question. I always I almost wish people could be inside when something goes wrong so they can see what happens, you know, be a fly on the wall. A lot of times it's yeah. Oh, it's it's wild at first, you know, and it is just as dramatic as, you know, somebody running in yelling, stop the presses, you know, because it's oh my gosh, you know, this is on fire, or you know, I need help with this. That's pretty wild. And everybody kind of runs around for a minute and then, you know, settles into, okay, now let's find the solution. And so for me, when it comes to instinct, instinct and experience in farming are one and the same as far as I'm concerned. You know, you you have this instinct because of all of the experience you have, all the things you've seen. And when you're out, you know, for example, scouting a field, you see so many normal plants, right? Healthy normal plants, that when you run into a problem, it jumps out, you know, you can really see it, you know. And so it's kind of the same thing when you're out when there's a problem, you know, you start. I always feel like a detective, you know. I start with this whole, okay, what are we looking at here? You know, and you go down the list of different things that could be based on the symptoms or or based on, you know, what people are telling you. So for me, and then it all comes together with science, though, because I am a scientist and I've always had a scientific mind. So my first thought is, okay, how do we fix this? And I start basically going back through all of my plant science classes, all of my, you know, pathology classes or entomology classes. You know, I start kind of wading through all of that to see initially, you know, identify the problem. You know, because there's problems that look exactly the same. It is really funny sometimes because you'll get out there and you're like, wow, these leaves are yellow. It must be this. And it's it's actually something completely different. Like magnesium deficiency is a big one in the springtime for table grape growers. And it looks very alarming because the plants, they just kind of look a little more yellow, not desperate dying yellow, but just kind of splotchy yellow, if that makes sense. And uh, you know, it's easy to freak out, you know. But then you step back and go, oh, but it's the whole field. The likelihood of it being something pathogen or pest related affecting the whole entire field is not so likely, you know. And then based on experience, you know, that you know comes into play when it's like, oh, this happens every spring. You know, it's the magnesium's tied up in the soil by the amount of calcium, you know, from the gypsum we applied, you know, in the fall after harvest. You know, you kind of go through this process.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

I would freak out if a whole field was yellow, I would lose my mind. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 27:49

Oh, I do too. I do too. Every time, even though I know what it is.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

It was a story. I worked in Hollywood uh before I got my start into um like working on podcasts and stuff, and there was a story came out about a Michael Bay movie that one of the people was working on it, and I heard it from people who were on that movie. But I don't know if it was Urban Legend or what, but I I had the people I was talking to I tended to believe and they had said that there was this one kid that his job was to back up the film. That was at that time, everything was done on film, they had rolls of film, and this kid backed things up incorrectly, and they lost I think a whole day of shooting.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

I was just like, you know, when you have something that is such high stakes, and you know, vineyards, vines, anything in the wine industry is not cheap. Like it is not cheap stuff, you know. And so I again a whole field with yellow, yellow leaves would make me just near have a nervous breakdown. So yeah, that's wild. Yeah, you know, one one of the things too is like of you get two sides. You get people who think farming is just like eh, you know, oh, I don't like that, or the people that romanticize it, farming and growing, but you know, don't see the hard parts. Like, what are the realities that people need to understand if they want to respect the work behind it?

SPEAKER_01 29:22

So we mentioned earlier, you know, the lone guy on the tractor out there, you know, just making it happen or walking around with his family in the orchards and there are all these blooms. So that's that's why people romanticize it, you know, field of dreams, you know, there would be field of dreams, you know, they make it, you know. So the reality is it's not for the faint of heart. It is tough, you know, because you've got so many things to contend with. You know, we talked about earlier soil, water, you know, uh, climate, politics. There's a ton going on all the time. And I think too, it's so funny. I know so many growers over the years that, you know, they've got people that work for them, right? They've got a foreman, they've got all these people that, you know, go out there and they basically run it for them. I've known so many that don't just sit back and and kind of let that happen and wait to be reported to. They're out there actually themselves, you know, and fixing sprinkler lines, you know, because they're driving by their field. They don't stop and call someone and say, hey, somebody get out and fix it. They get out and do it themselves, you know. And it is a lot of work and it's very, very stressful too. And uh that's I think probably what people don't think about is it looks so nice on TV, right?

SPEAKER_00 30:33

Yeah, right. Yeah, it does look. I I I think that you see yeah, the field of dreams, man, is a great example. Such a good example, you know. It's like, yeah, it looks so beautiful. If you build it, they will come, you know. Uh, but you know, it's not and they can have their stress in that movie too, right?

SPEAKER_01 30:52

Because they're gonna lose their farm if this happens, you know. So I mean that it kind of dabbles in a little bit of the stress associated with growing, but you know, it's just it's a lot harder than people think.

SPEAKER_00 31:02

I I think so. That I mean, yeah, anything that you really enjoy often is, but you know, for someone who wants to feel more connected to the land, even if they live in the city, where are some simple ways they can start building that relationship besides going out and hugging trees? Which hey, yeah, that's your thing.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

Well, the the world we live in, I'd say listen to podcasts, you know, that have anything to do with, you know, nature or farming or you know, whatever. Um, there's a lot of good documentaries out there, but if you want to be more hands-on, I think the simplest way to start is houseplants. I know it sounds silly, but uh you can learn a lot from a houseplant. You know, you have to pay attention to this plant. It's not as hard, you know, as I'm gonna make it sound. You know, you're not staring at it constantly, you know, but you just kind of pay attention, you know, as you go on throughout your day. You don't want to overwater it, you don't want to underwater it. I'll tell you a secret. It used to be terrible with houseplants. Like I would kill them, you know, which is hilarious now because I'm, you know, responsible for the health and maintenance of 20 million vines a year, right? But, you know, it's something I had to learn is to be patient, you know, and wait and let things play out. So the other thing you can do, okay, you got your houseplant. Anytime you're outside, you know, just think about things that could be affecting a grower, like the weather. You know, what's the weather doing? And there's this misconception that farmers always want rain, you know. Oh, there's certain times of year we do not want rain. You know, almond growers do not want rain during bloom, you know, because that brings up a set of issues, you know, that knocks the blooms off before they're pollinated, you know, which means less almonds, right? Or diseases, you know, yeah, yeah, there's a lot that a lot that people don't think about. But uh, so yeah, just you know, kind of getting outside and paying attention or, you know, looking at the soil and it's no longer just dirt, you know, because dirt is dirt soil you grow in, right? There is a difference between dirt and soil. So starting to kind of just, you know, think along those lines, you know, when it comes to the world around you, even if you're in the city, you know, you you have an opportunity to see soil, you know, and um the other thing too is just learning how plants work, you know, it's incredible. It is, and to me, it's such a gift. Every day is a gift when I think about how I understand these things now, you know, because you have this plant and it's removing nutrients from the soil along with the water that's powered by the sun. I mean, there's just such a cool concept of plants in general. And then you couple in now how we can kind of manipulate them in a sense by pumping them full of fertilizer, but don't do that. You know, it's like let it, you know, let it take its natural process and just be there to help it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 33:38

I love it. You know, I I think that one of the best examples uh for me is like raising a kid. Like you don't want to overspoil them, you don't want to do this too much, you don't want to do that too much. You gotta just set the path and then exactly. Yeah, have trust that you're doing it right and not messing it up entirely, you know.

SPEAKER_01 33:58

Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 34:00

Not always easy.

SPEAKER_01 34:02

Mm-mm. No, parenting is also not for the faint of heart.

SPEAKER_00 34:05

Right. If if you were to zoom out beyond crops and plants, what has working so closely with the land taught you about life in general?

SPEAKER_01 34:15

Hmm, let's see. I would have to say you definitely get back what you put in. You know, you take the time, you know, you be considerate, you know, of of what you're working with, and it comes back to you. How that comes back to you, of course, is different depending on your role in agriculture or as a consumer, you know. For me, you know, what I get back is is going out and seeing this lush growth every year. And I still get excited. I've been doing this for so long, but you know, there's still ever things that happen every single year. I know it's gonna happen, but when it happens, I'm just as excited, you know, because it means I did something right somewhere, you know, back downstream, right? Or upstream, I guess rather. And uh, let's see, so it pays to be patient for sure, you know. That's something you can take into life every day. You know, it does pay to be patient, right? But you also have to be willing to take risks, you know, in life as in agriculture. And the other thing into that though is calculated risks, you know, when it comes to making decisions, should I buy this car? You know, should I even something when should I go to lunch with this person? It's like you constantly have to like weigh these options and considerations. And that's huge in farming. It's all the same, you know, and calculated risks. Everybody has a good product, right? That's gonna like be the silver bullet answer to your prayers, you know? And it very well could be, although I don't believe in silver bullets, you know, I think it's layers of of protection and and you know, when it comes to growing plants, but you know, when it comes right down to it, you want to start small. You know, if it's something you're unsure about, if it's gonna work as something untested, you just don't go out and spray your whole vineyard. You don't know what's gonna happen, you know. So you do a small trial, you know, a few plants. Did it hurt the plant? No, let's expand the trial. So if you start thinking about that, you know, when it comes to your life too, you know, take the risks, but also, you know, take careful risks, you know, calculated risks. Um that I could think of is how you treat people, you know, it's basically reflective, like we compared children to plants a minute ago, you know, comparing people to plants, you know, treat treat people well, you know, treat plants well, you know, and you get what you're looking for at the end of the day, you know, most times, hopefully. But uh yeah, I think that's the biggest, you know, thing you can draw out of agriculture to compare it a life. And the process, that's the other thing. A lot of people in growing, you were shooting for the end result, right? Your glass of wine, you know, your table grapes, your raisins, you know, that's the end result. So people say, Oh, trust the process, you know. And we say this about a lot of different things in our life, right? Trust the process. I feel like that's very in focused. You know, you're you're trying to get to the end, trust the process, and you'll get to the end. When it comes to farming and pretty well everywhere else in my life, I choose to say respect the journey, you know, because when you respect the journey, you have this profound connection, you know, with all these parts that went in along the way, you know. And when you have that, it you have this gratitude, right, for the whole entire thing, not just that glass of wine. You know, now you're talking about all the hands that touched these grape vines to get where you need to be. You're talking about college, you know, you didn't just zoom through and graduate. You know, now you have respect for everything you learned along the way, the people that were in your life, the professors, the other students, you know, that that you guys helped each other get through. So it's a it's a really good parallel, I think.

SPEAKER_00 37:54

I love that. If you were to do do you enjoy wine every now and then?

SPEAKER_01 37:59

You know, it's so funny, not really, because I know nothing about wine. You know, I grow the vines. Now, I will say this though. Every year I have a conference uh in Monterey, go to dinner with the same group of people every year. One guy is a wine connoisseur, and so he knows what he's doing when he picks wine, you know, and he brings his own bottles from his own collection and he'll pay attention to what everybody orders and he'll recommend, you know. And it's great. I love it, but I do not know how to pick wine, so I just leave that to the professionals.

SPEAKER_00 38:30

Well, then let me ask you this are there any varietals that you grow that are easier than others and others that are harder than others?

SPEAKER_01 38:37

Oh, 100%. Yeah. Off the top of my head, you know, I can't really, let's see. I think Pinot Gris can be tough. And when I say tough, it's not so much growing it in the field, it's that grafting process. And it's also when you're grafting, you're looking at, you know, different um, you know, like maybe the rootstock is more vigorous than the scion, the top part of the graph. And so you'll have an incompatibility issue, you know, there's things like that. That's the toughest part. Or, you know, certain things, um, you know, there's one that shall remain nameless that we're dealing with right now. It's really hard after we graft them and plant them just to get them to break the buds and start growing. And you'll have roots, you'll have all these things going on, but for some reason there's just some hang up. So as in the field, I wouldn't know. I wouldn't know about what the growers out in the field, you know, face with growing ease. I know some are more susceptible to disease or certain pests, like different varieties more, but for our little like corner of the world, that's the problem for us, is just getting some of them to grow, it can be challenging.

SPEAKER_00 39:37

That's so interesting. Do you have a a social media presence that people can find out more about what you do or a website?

SPEAKER_01 39:44

Sure. So I'm on LinkedIn, and that's you know, of course, Lindsay Lucket at, you know, I'm at Sunridge Nurseries, you can find me. Um, I do have an Instagram, I don't really use it for work, so you probably just end up seeing a lot of pictures of my, you know, dogs and and and kids and stuff. So