Sonoma’s Best Kept Secrets | Megan Koolmees | Barrels & Roots

In this episode of Barrels & Roots, I sit down with Megan Koolmees, DTC Director at Bonovia Winery in Sonoma County, to talk about everything that makes wine approachable, memorable, and genuinely exciting, even if you've never set foot in a tasting room before. 

Megan shares how a semester abroad in France at 19 sparked a lifelong passion, and how her palate evolved from funky old-world natural wines all the way to gracious Pinot Noirs. We talk about what "approachable luxury" really means, why the legs in your glass aren't actually telling you what you think they are, and how the best wine experiences are built as much around community and storytelling as they are around what's in the bottle. 

What's the wine that made you realize you actually loved wine, and where were you when you had it?

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Yeah, I have a lot of friends that initially, when I got further and further into my wine education and my wine career, they felt nervous bringing wine to me or having wine with me. And they would always ask about price point and like what it if it's a good region to get it from. And ultimately, I want to break everything down for everyone. Just honestly, the most important thing about wine is if you like it. It doesn't matter if it's a 95-point wine or a hundred-point wine by whoever, like you don't know that person. Um, it matters if you like it. And so um it's always something that you know comes back to your palate, everyone's is different. Um, I always ask, especially when I have groups, more than you know, four people, no one ever agrees on what their favorite is. And that's the thing that's most fun about wine.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Uh welcome everybody back to the Barrels and Roots podcast. I'm your host, Sean Trace, and I have an awesome guest with me today. Would you like to tell people who you are and a little bit about what you do?

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Yeah, uh, thank you so much. My name is Megan Colmace, and I am the DTC director for Bonovia Winery, a small family-owned and operated winery in Sonoma County. And uh yeah, I've been in the business for over 10 years, um, but I I feel like I've uh landed my dream job. I'm really happy.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

That's awesome. I I want to ask you, how did you get into wine? How what took you down this path of getting into the wine world?

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Um, I uh fear it sounds a little pretentious, but I was studying French in college, and one of the nice requirements for my French major was to live in France. And uh I moved there when I was 19. I had no experience with wine at all. And I fell in love with uh what the French call Vine de Table, just their table wine, really basic. And I decided that I had to make it my life.

SPEAKER_02 1:54

That's awesome. I was I thought you were gonna say, like the get a French major, you had to learn about wine. And I was like, dude, I should have majored in French in university as well, because that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

But still also the school I went to, but that would have been interesting.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

Right, right. Well, I wanted to ask you this too, because you know, as you were getting into this and learning about wine, was there a type like a varietal or a glass that you just remember, you go, that was the one that kind of got me hooked, or was it just this diverse like types of wine that you were tasting and sampling?

SPEAKER_00 2:28

Yeah, I think it was really like the culture that surrounded wine, especially in France. Um, and then earlier on when I was asked, especially when I started studying wine, um, if you were to ask me what kind of wine, I wanted the dirtiest, funkiest, you know, the the strange kind of like old world style. Um, and I just loved anything that was like really unique. Um, I got really into Cab Franc from the Loire. Uh, and then as I continued studying and continued in wine, uh, my palette's changed just like everybody does. And and now I love really like beautiful and like gracious like pinot noirs. But um, yeah, earlier on it was definitely the funkier the better.

SPEAKER_02 3:09

That's that's awesome. I want to ask you about this, like, because uh for you, you get to be around wine in the business side. But for someone who's never been to a winery, like what would you want them to feel when the moment they walk in? Because I mean, to me, to me, I grew up around wine country, but I was still really intimidated every time I walked into a winery. And I don't know why, but I I found some wineries that were just really welcoming. And I couldn't put my finger on what that was, but I'm curious if you have an idea.

SPEAKER_00 3:41

I think that um every winery obviously has like their own philosophy around how they take care of guests, how they show up and show their wine to people. Um, obviously, for me and for where I work currently, like I want everybody to feel like we are approachable luxury. So it's it is, it's a luxury product. Everybody kind of knows that right now, but you don't have to dress up to come here and see it, or you don't have to know everything about it. I think that can be really intimidating when people first start. Because you walk into a place where you're you want to have fun, uh, but everybody you feel like everybody around you knows so much more than you do. And um, I think that the the most fun about wine is that like everybody can start wherever they're at. They're everybody has a starting point, you know? Um, and it it doesn't, you don't have to be the most knowledgeable person in the room to have really good community around wine.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

I um remember I got to, I'm part English. And so one summer in university, I went and studied abroad in the UK because I was like, well, my dad's like, I'd love for you to go see where I grew up. And I went back there. One of the most intimidating experiences was going into the pubs. And I don't know why at the beginning, because they were just down-to-earth places, but you get in there and it's like that what you described. It's like you think everyone has more of an awareness of the type of experience. What am I supposed to do? How am I supposed to order? How am I supposed to stand? Am I supposed to lean? Am I supposed to sit? You know, and it's like all of these things that most people don't care about, you know? And I I remember going into a wine tasting the first time, and I had just seen all these movies. And I was like, do I need to, you know, make all these fun faces? Do I need to swish and spit? Do I need to do this? And like I got in there, and the coolest part is I still remember that one of those first tastings I went on. And the people that were, you know, helping us, guiding us, teaching us about these wines, um, were so chill. They were like so amazingly chill. And they're like, I was like, am I I leaned in. I'm like, am I doing it right? They're like, are you having fun? I said, I'm I yeah, I'm having a lot of fun. And do you enjoy the wine? I said, the wine's amazing. And they said, then everything else is okay. Just let go of the rest. Like, that's all that matters. Are you having fun and did you enjoy the wine? Obviously, don't go and start smashing things and breaking things and being an idiot. But like, if you're having fun and you're enjoying the wine, like that's the right direction to be going, you know?

SPEAKER_00 6:10

Yeah, I have a lot of friends that initially, when I got further and further into my wine education and my wine career, they felt nervous bringing wine to me or having wine with me. And um, they would always ask about price point and like what it if it's a good region to get it from. And ultimately, I want to break everything down for everyone. Just honestly, the most important thing about wine is if you like it. It doesn't matter if it's a 95-point wine or a hundred-point wine by whoever, like you don't know that person. Um, it matters if you like it. And so um it's always something that, you know, comes back to your palate, everyone's is different. Um, I always ask, especially when I have groups, more than you know, four people, no one ever agrees on what their favorite is. And that's the thing that's most fun about wine.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

You're right. No one ever agrees. And that is the nice thing. You know, it's like everyone's like, well, I like this, I like this. And I think in like in so many places, we we we kind of allow for that. But there's like this idea of like, because people feel intimidated by it. But I mean, if you go to buy a car, no one's gonna be like, why did you buy the red one? You should have gotten blue. People are like, okay, nice car, you know, good for you, you know. But I think that like one of the things too is like so many of the, some of the, not so many, some of the experiences I've had at wineries have been really, really, really memorable. You know, but some of them have been just, I I'm oh, I went there? Yeah, I did that one time. But I want to ask you this because for me, I have two experiences that are so memorable. I went to one winery, and that's a long time ago, but they had all these tyco drums there, and they were playing these taco drums, and it was this cool festival. And it was, I think it was down near, it was down near the the southern end of St. Helena, and they just had this really cool festival, and it was a long time ago, uh, when a Sean Connery and Wesley Snipes movie was out called Rising Sun. You won't know that because I'm old, but it was a it was a cool movie, and in that movie they had Tyco drums, and it was a really, you know, at that time, and it was the team that did the taycho drums in the movie. And I was just like, I don't know why they did it, but it was a cool, cultural experience. And then we had wine with it, and we enjoyed the wine with it, and it was such a cool thing. And I mean, I think I also remember another winery I went to um the the the the cable car ride at uh at Sterling Vineyards, and that was memorable, not because of the cable car, but because I got to go with my mom, my wife, and my daughter was with us too. She was like, we were all going, she loved the cable car. My mom and my wife were drinking the wine, I was driving. And so we had this this great little combination. And my wife and my mom, I've never seen them bond like that before. Like, we've I've been married for 11 years now, but like to see this just fun experience, and my daughter was sitting there looking at these, you know, all of the cool stuff. It was so memorable. And recently I got to go to uh see another winery that was so awesome, and I made a vlog about it, and it was so cool. But they were unforgettable, but it wasn't just because of the winery, it was because of all of these other components. And I think I want to ask you about that.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

Yeah, wine absolutely does that. I feel like uh obviously it is important what's in your glass because um there there are good wines and there are bad wines to each person's palate. But the experience that's around that, and that experience can be as simple as, like you said, seeing your mom and your wife bond together or uh being in a new region for the very first time. The um I actually got to go and uh travel around France with my mom. And we went tasting in Bordeaux, and it was her first time being in France. It was her first time wine tasting with an experience like that. And so everything about that experience, whether it be like the first that we were having, the area that we were in, the education that they provided, it was such a memorable experience. And we try to do things here like that too. Like I liked, you know, obviously there's an event structure. You have food and wine and music, and that is a very easy event. But um we've also done events where we walk people across the entire property tour where it's like a mile and a half walk, and you just get to get your hands dirty, you get to see like really where the wine is being grown. And those kinds of experiences that are really visceral, I think those stick with people. And trying to create those experiences around great wine is um something that like it is a lot of fun in terms of the creativity of what I get to do.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

Love that. I love that you are the experiential stuff. And I mean, I've been seeing some cool things going on in wineries, like all types of interesting experiential like uh things. Like one place there was a winery that also had like all of this cool arts and crafts stuff. And I was just like, wow, you get to make these wreaths. There was a winery that I was like telling my wife, I was like, this winery lets you make a wreath, you know, and my wife was like, I love flower arrangement. And she was like so excited about that because it was something that combined what I loved and what she loved. And it was just cool because it was using some of the old vines. And I think that, you know, it's about the ways that you can make it memorable for people, give them something they can take home, you know, hopefully bottles of wine, but hopefully maybe there's something else there, you know, beyond just the memories.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

Yeah. And um, I've been really lucky with the the area that we're in, um, the people that I can collaborate with. We've done paint and sips, we've done um pumpkin carving, we've done uh Pilates and wine. And so the the space that we have uh is absolutely beautiful here. I tell people all the time that the space does a lot of work for us when you look out onto the vineyard. But those experiences is what someone's gonna be like, I remember the winery that I did yoga at, you know?

SPEAKER_02 12:05

I love that, right? If a winery had puppy yoga, count me in. I want to try puppy yoga at a winery. But I mean, you know, you never know. But I want to ask you this too, because um if you had to explain wine to a beginner, pure beginner, how would you describe what makes one wine different from another?

SPEAKER_00 12:29

That's a really good question. Um, I think that when you get into the weeds of it, especially someone who's gone through like really formal education with wine, they can try and get really like nitty-gritty with like the soil types and the regions and all of these different things. But um, if we're you'd pull that back, um, I think that you can compare it to something that a lot of people know. The there's um Granny Smith apples and there are the red delicious apples. And so each one of those is gonna create a different flavor profile, it's gonna taste different, it's gonna have a different mouthfeel. And that's the same with the different grapes that are being grown. So a different grape uh gonna give you different flavor, it's gonna give a different texture, and each one of those things contributes something that's going to show up in the glass.

SPEAKER_02 13:18

I love that. Some of what I think is so special is that, you know, I am fascinated still by region, by the locale, and how to me, one of the things that I would I love talking to new people, that people that are new to wine, not new people, people that are new to wine about is how where you grow the wine is so, so important. How it, you know, the weather is in that region, and it might be like the you know, one mile apart can create drastically different wines depending upon the the the well, maybe one's on the side of a hill that's really windy, maybe one is in this area where there's not as much wind and not as much sun. And like that simple thing can change the quality of the wine. But, you know, I want to ask you this because for people that are outside of the wine industry, like what's something that people think matters about wine that actually doesn't matter that much?

SPEAKER_00 14:15

I uh um hate to say it, but I think legs, legs in a glass. Well, if someone brings that up, I'm like, yes, though that does have legs. Um it doesn't designate the kind of quality that people used to think that it designates in wine. Uh it just has to do with the viscosity. Uh, but that's always something that kind of gives me a little bit of a chuckle. And not in a bad way. If that's something that someone sees that they know that they like in some in a wine, that's wonderful. But it's not uh the big quality designator that it used to signify.

SPEAKER_02 14:50

I I like that because I do think that there are I think that there are still like not urban legends, but things people believe that are not necessarily true. I think it's getting better. I think the internet has allowed people to kind of educate themselves. But I I'm a child of the 80s, and one of the things that was fun back then is like we would hear songs on the radio, and there would be no no YouTube that you could go and listen to the lyrics, and there would be no place that you could go. So me and so many of my friends, what we thought the song said and what was actually said was completely different, you know? And you know, you'd listen to it on the radio, and it wasn't until you got the the cassette and you could open up like the jacket and you'd look inside of the lyrics and you're like, oh, oh, that's what that means. And I feel like with a lot of different spirits and but especially wine, there's a lot of things that people believe, and it doesn't help that there are people out there that try to like make it seem like a little bit more like fancy than it can be. You know, like some of the the psalms that I've had on that were like some of the most established, really interesting psalms were like a lot of the stuff that people tell you is really, really important. It's not. Like, what's really important is taking that wine, sipping it, and like you want to get some more air into the wine, you want to let it, you know, breathe a bit before you drink it, sure. That's great. You know, there's gonna be different flavors if you do different things. But what's really, really important is sipping the wine and seeing whether you like it or not. And if you're slipping out of the nicest glass on the planet, or if you're sipping out of a cup that is not as worthy, you know, do you enjoy the wine? Like get to that core thing, you know. And I think one of the things that to me is so special about wine, and one of the things I love about wineries having tastings is because uh you go there and you do it with the people you care about, you know, you do it with people that you enjoy. When my wife and I recently went to uh Glory Ferrare, where my friend Kyle makes a wine, we were sitting next to this bridal party. And the bridal party was having the time of their life. They were so excited, it was so happy, and we looked over and it was just joy. And it wasn't just joy because of the wine, the wine was phenomenal. It was joy because they were experiencing the wine together. And that to me is really special. And it leads to my next question because when you're creating events or experiences for people, what are you really trying to give people beside just the wine?

SPEAKER_00 17:31

Yeah, again, I think it comes back to how um the the what surrounds wine is community and it brings people together. It gives you a talking point, it gives you just something that you can all really basically break bread together. Um, in terms of events, uh I really want it to be kind of like we talked about, like I want it to be an experience that someone walks away with something memorable. And if that is they got to taste a grape off of the vine during harvest, or if they got to, you know, really see the difference between uh a Chardonnay leaf and a Pinot Noir leaf on our property, these things that people don't un don't don't know yet that are different, that are really fun and interesting to find out, I think all of those really um contribute as to like why I do different things in different events.

SPEAKER_02 18:22

I think that's so interesting too, because I think that some of what gets me and inspires me about wine is that it's a world that I will never know everything. Like you can be, I like I was just seeing like when I started like getting into wine, I was like, hmm, I grew up in the Napa Valley. I know, and I and I suddenly I started talking to people, and I was like, dude, I know nothing about other regions. I know only about here. And then like it's super limited, right? And then I started learning and I was like, and then I live in Southeast Asia and I was trying to figure out how to buy wine from other regions, and I was like looking at French wines, and I was like, you know what? I don't know anything about French wine. And it was wild for me because as I was looking at French wines, I kept trying to look for varietals. I was like, well, what varietal is this? Is this like a cab? Is this, you know, Chardonnay and stuff? But what I was finding was they don't label the same way. You know, in France, they label more by region. Like it's like this is from this region, it's this, this. And it was really fascinating to me because I was like, I wasn't not aware of how much I didn't know. And I wanted to ask you this next question because one of the things that helped me is that early on, again, I had these great early experiences with people and wineries that were really welcoming. And I want to ask you this about how do you think wineries can do that? And why do some wineries feel really welcoming and fun and others feel intimidating? You know, what's the difference?

SPEAKER_00 19:53

Yeah, I mean, I think that again, it comes out to a little bit of a philosophical thing in terms of their own company. Some people, they have a philosophy of like, we want to be approachable luxury. So I want people to feel casual, feel welcomed. We have couches that you sit on when you taste here. So we've got people like sinking down into the couches, really enjoying the space. But I've also been to those wineries that are very intimidating. There's a gate, and you need a special code to enter this really beautiful wrought iron gate, and then you drive up the biggest pathway, and then you get there, and everybody's in like um, this is formal like attire. And so those those can feel a little bit more intimidating because the the style that they're trying to convey can be a little intimidating. And they're still good experiences, very different on the spectrum. Uh, I've also walked into a tasting that's in uh the owner's grandma's house and and you're sitting sitting at their dining room table. And I I don't think that there's a good or bad to any of these. I think that it's makes it does make going wine tasting so fun and exciting because you have this huge breadth of experiences that you can just walk into. And none of those that I've ever been to have that like on the highest end and on the most approachable have ever turned their nose up to somebody going in and trying to learn and trying to experience their property. Uh, it just feels a little different when you go.

SPEAKER_02 21:18

I love that. Yeah, I I've never had, and honestly, I've never had a bad experience wine tasting. I've had places that were more memorable and less memorable. I've had places that were fun and more like fun and and less fun, but I don't think I've ever had a bad experience. And I think that that it goes to two things. First of all, I think that the the the person who was speaking with me was really highly trained on how to connect to people and highly con trained on how to bridge that gap. And like one of the other things, too, is I think that the wineries that really get it understand that. Not everyone knows everything. Some certainly you're going to have some people who come in and go, I know what this is and I know everything about it. But most people would love to learn. And I come from the background of a teacher. And to me, you know, I think that we we can teach people about these wines and help them learn more and learn what's special about it and learn how to like it, you know? And I want to ask you this because I want to ask your perspective now. If you were pouring a glass for me right now, three glasses for me, what would you pour? What's your go-to stuff?

SPEAKER_00 22:33

Um, I'm very lucky working with Bonovia because I absolutely love everything that we make. Um, and I was a big fan of our wines prior to being here. Um, I would definitely pour uh Pinot Noir, well, obviously, Chardonnay and Pinot Noir are our bread and butter. Um, our Tilton Hill vineyard itself is out on the coast. And this kind of speaks to how um small of a difference a distance can make in a wine. The property is less than 10 miles from here, but is so, so much colder than the Russian River Valley. That the wines that are coming out of that property are so unique. Um, the Chardonnay and the Pinot, I would definitely feature. And then I always love to pour bubbles for people because uh you don't need a big uh celebration, you don't need a big uh circumstance to pop some bubbly and have some fun.

SPEAKER_02 23:25

I love that. And I'm a big fan of bubbles because who doesn't love bubbles? They're they're great. Um, you know, one of the things that I would been wondering too, because it's constantly evolving, and you know for big wineries, they have big budgets and stuff. But for a small winery, you know, if a small winery had no audience at all, or they're trying to get people through the front door, what would you tell them to start doing to get people interested? You know, what are the avenues to drawing people in?

SPEAKER_00 23:59

I think that uh it's always a good idea to try to put a little bit of stuff on social media. Uh it can feel kind of like you're putting something out into a gap, but uh there are people that really pay attention to that. And then local partnerships, I think, are the biggest thing, especially for small wineries. So we're a pretty small winery, but those local partnerships are really what can bring people in, whether that's with drivers, because a lot of people coming to the area don't want to have a DD in the group, uh, hotels and concierge, but then also we're we're kind of uh, at least right now, in the mind of uh rising tides. So we actually partner with lots of local wineries to send people back and forth to each other. And word of mouth from someone that works in the industry is really powerful for a consumer. If someone hears from me that I recommend another winery, they trust that I have gone there and I've vetted it and I've tasted it and I actually like it. Otherwise, I wouldn't talk about them.

SPEAKER_02 24:58

I love that. And I think that is it. I think that there's such a power of the network and the community. I um and one of the things too, like that's where I have a media podcast, a content and media podcast, the full battery media podcast that's named after my company, conveniently. Um, but one of the things that I find there is I invite a lot of other people on that are doing content and media. And I'm just like, everyone's so afraid of like, like, oh, why would you invite competitors? I'm like, no, they're awesome creatives doing awesome work in the same space. And that that's awesome. Like, why would I you feel threatened? And like with wine. Like, come on, man. If everyone succeeds, like the whole industry gets better if we can all get better, you know? It's not this like zero-sum game. So I love that. And I think that for the most part, I think people see that and they're aware of like, you know what, it all gets better if we all are succeeding and having something positive go on. So you're speaking my language right now, but I want to ask you this too, because um storytelling to me is really important in the work that I do in media and content. What kind of stories or moments do people actually remember and talk about after they visit?

SPEAKER_00 26:15

I think that uh connecting the story to the family, especially for our um winery, it's really important because we still have the same uh married couple that started Bonovia Winery back in 2005. And so connecting to the story, we have uh our namesake, Bonovia, is for our owner's father's names. Our estate property that we do our tastings on is named after our owner's mothers. And people really connect with the fact that we're um still kind of almost like grassroots. We're just here, we're doing our best, and we want to share these wines that we're really passionate about, that the owners were really passionate about enough to start this whole endeavor.

SPEAKER_02 26:56

I love that. I think that the that foundation is so powerful when you have a story that, you know, anchors people and it it comes from somewhere, you know, because to me, I think one of the most powerful things is like I'm I'm a sucker for like those backstory things. So like if I am watching a movie, I try to read up and figure out well, what happened to the characters? How do they get into it? Why is that character important? I'm a bit of a nerd like that. Uh, but you know, like that's the beauty of like uh of kind of developing the story. And I think that, you know, if if it's a great wine, that's one thing. But if you know, you go to a place and you you you show up and you're like, yeah, this was in this family's, like they've been making this wine for, you know, three generations. That's pretty rad, you know? Like you go in and like you think about things that survive that long, you know. I think if I think about what my grandparents were doing, I've gone a whole and totally different course. And to think about like if my grandpa started a winery and then it was passed down to me and then passed down to or my dad and passed down to me, and something I was passing down to my daughter, that would be pretty much one of the coolest things that I could ever, ever imagine.

SPEAKER_00 28:14

And you know, just those are hard, like you don't see those as much anymore because there's a lot of families who the the next generation didn't feel as passionate about it. And so then something happens to the winery itself. And so it's it really being able to connect to that, I think it's important to people.

SPEAKER_02 28:31

I think so. And I think that figuring out I I had a podcast earlier and we were talking about the wine industry, and they were the guest was talking about the importance of why. Asking why is this important? And it's not just the wine that's important, but why is this experience important? Why is this this label important? What's the story there? And I want to ask you this because you've worked your way up in this world. What's something that you learned the hard way that you wished you knew earlier about wine?

SPEAKER_00 29:02

About wine specifically.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

Uh anything, anything in life, actually.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

Um I I think in terms of the the wine world, uh, I there was a lot of preconceived notions that I think I had earlier on about certain varietals or regions. And I wish that I would have just had a uh more of a blank slate and just kind of walked in and let myself kind of come up with those ideas myself. And uh for career-wise, uh, I think that this is a um tale as old as time, but um, building a team and delegating um is one of the things that I learned the hard way.

SPEAKER_02 29:41

Right. I was working with that with my team today. Um, you know, I have uh uh kind of a bottleneck in my system and one of my team leaders, I'm like, you're carrying everything right now, and we can't do that. You can't do that, you'll burn out. And you know, we had this kind of like support intervention today, and I out the whole team came in and supported her and said, we gotta give up some of the control. I know you like your perfectionist like me, but you know, it'll make you it'll make you feel overwhelmed if you kind of hold on to all that, you know?

SPEAKER_00 30:12

100%.

SPEAKER_02 30:13

I want to ask you another thing, too, because um where do you think, and I kind of shifting gears away from working with wine, but like learning about wine. Where do you think people should go if they want to learn more about wines and what where should they start?

SPEAKER_00 30:31

Like you said earlier, the internet has created such a uh broad network of information that it's pretty easy to look up. Where do I start learning about wine? But I uh I recommend to anybody that's interested in the uh process, in the regions, generally speaking. Uh WSET level one, which is the Wine and Spirits Education Trust, level one is really approachable for any level. And it's something that gives you a beautiful, like broad perspective on regions, how wine is produced, different varietals, and it and it doesn't get too intense like uh some other certifications with the the really intense blind tasting and the service and all of these other things. Level one with that, I feel is something I've recommended to consumers here because it's approachable. You can do it online and it gives you kind of a good jumping off point. Uh the Wine Bible is fun. It's a fun book to read. It does give you really, really in-depth information. But it if you're skimming and you're just kind of looking into things that you're most interested in, that's also a fun one to find a fun read.

SPEAKER_02 31:44

I I love it. I I was like the thing for me is like when I started getting to wine, I didn't know where to turn. And like I tried to go, and luckily I had some really cool people in my neighborhood that acted as like mentors, and they were like, all right, get out and try this, get out and try this. But it's hard to get out and try stuff when you go to a wine market and you have so many options. That's why I love what you're talking about, because you know, you gotta have uh the ability to start somewhere. And I think one of the things that's overwhelming about wine, and I mean, uh not just wine, it's good, I would say microbrews are the same thing. When you go into that selection, you're just like, oh my goodness, like what do I pick? Where do I start? You know, because also it's it can be something that is not as forgiving if you're going to, like, you know, okay, let oh, this is $100. Well, do you buy that every couple of days? You know, where do you start? And I want to think that what I like to think is that, and I what I want people to understand is that there are people out there. If you go and find a great wine shop, ask them questions. Ask them where to start. And like, you know, that's why I like to ask that question of where do you think people should start? Because in what wine glasses, what glasses would you pour? Because so getting a foot in the door. And I think that bubbles are a great way for people to get their foot in the door. You know, it's something who doesn't like bubbles, you know?

SPEAKER_00 33:09

Yeah. I that and also one of the things that I did when I was really early on, especially in studying, and this translates to someone who just already knows something they like. So let's say the person is really big fan of Sauvignon Blanc and they want to learn more about it, with a couple friends, go to the store and buy Sauvignon Blanc from four regions. Get a California, get a New Zealand, get a French, get South Africa, and go take those with your friends and bag them up, try them all without knowing what's in the in the glass, and pick which one you like and then learn more about that region. I think that that's a really fun way to, without a lot of knowledge about soils and climates and all of those things, that's just flavor in the glass. I think that's a fun way to do it.

SPEAKER_02 33:54

I love that too. I think that it's really easy to learn that way too, because you kind of focus in on one area. Because if you try to get everything all at the same time, it can be really overwhelming. Like you're just like, what am I supposed to focus on? You know, because if I'm focusing on this, I was trying to like, and I think that was one of the things that overwhelmed me. I remember doing a wine class and I was like, oh, it's cool. I understand something about wine. So I studied all these different bridles. And then I went to the supermarket. I mean, supermarket in St. Helena has a ridiculous little wine selection, you know, safe. It's ridiculous. I go in there and like, I was like, wow, wow. You know, and I'm just looking at just the cabs, and I just was like, there's like 150 different cabs in there. And I was just like, where do I start? You know, and I think that what I love that what you say is like, uh, go in and start taking. You know, one of the things that I do, and I haven't talked about this yet. I love uh using a Chat GPT to talk about the wines I love. And I I'm like, I've been talking to ChatGPT and I'm like, all right, this is what I enjoy. And I'll be like, all right, I I had a new wine today and I liked it. And I want to try to figure out why. And I'm trying to create these patterns and look at like what are the things that chart it out. And so I've learned very clearly from analyzing with my AI friend uh that I like more mellow reds and that there are certain types. I am not a huge fan of super bready type of uh of whites, you know. Like I I'm not a huge fan. And the cool part is, is then that's allowed me to start going, all right. Well, what are some different things I could try? You know, and I get out there and I'm I'm like you're doing what you said, and going, all right, let's try a couple different regions, yeah, see what they taste like. And some of them I'm like, yes. And some of them I'm like, not that not as not as much, you know.

SPEAKER_00 35:51

I think that's smart because it can really distill the information down. It can it can search from so many different sources, uh, sources and sites and pick out what you're tasting as long as you can describe kind of generally what you're tasting. I think that's a great tool. I've heard a lot of people too that are newer into wine that I see and talk to uh using Reddit because they they trust certain Redditors, they trust certain people who talk about things in a certain way. And so finding their own trusted source uh kind of leads them to what they want to try and experiment with.

SPEAKER_02 36:25

I love that. I love that's a great idea. I didn't even think about Reddit, but that's a great way. I gotta go check out the Reddit thing. You know, threads. I love I love going into wine shops and I'll take a picture real quick and throw it into ChatGPT and go, you know, this is the price. What do you think about this? Is this a good deal? And it's like, yeah, it's a steal. And I'm like, I'll take two of those, you know. And so I've been having fun exploring and looking. But the cool part is what I'm trying to get at, whether it be Reddit, whether it be using AI, you know, through ChatGPT or something, and I know there's some AI apps that talk about wine. I don't know much about them, but using tools now to get out and find out more information, you know? And I think that the it's such a great time to get information and to feel less intimidated. And, you know, ask a question before you go in. Am I supposed to spit? Am I supposed to swirl? You know, what's the correct way? I remember once, like I lived in Vietnam and there was this huge debate online, and all of these people were arguing because one celebrity had held the wine like this, and then another person also said you're supposed to do it like this, and someone else was holding the bottom. And like, and there was this huge debate, and it got like pretty crazy. And my wife looked at me, and all of her friends were like, What's the correct way? You're from wine country. And I was just sitting there going, I have no idea. I like literally don't know. I mean, I've seen people do everything. I I go to the wine tasting, some people like this, some people like this, some people are holding from the bottom, you know? And is there a right way? Probably is. I'm sure that there's a wine expert that's watching right now going, Sean, of course there is. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 37:57

I'm sure that there, well, I know that there's a proper way, but I think that um again, what what I try to approach these kinds of conversations with is just an education back, you know? So if you want to hold the base of the glass and you feel comfortable holding the base of the glass, that is fine. That's how you feel comfortable. Your hand is gonna warm up the wine in that glass. But if you're okay with that, then that's the way you hold your glass. It's the same. If you want to do the five S's of wine tasting where you see, sniff, swirl, spit, all of the things, that's fine. And you probably will have a better palate by the end of a full day of wine tasting if you're spitting things out. But if you want to keep tasting and keep tasting and you have a designated driver specifically, then have fun, you know?

unknown 38:43

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 38:44

I 100% agree. Yeah. My wife and I, we went wine tasting, and I was like, yeah, I was like, we're taking Ubers today. And it's like, why? Last time you drove, and I'm like, yeah, but I want to enjoy the wine this time. You guys got to enjoy the wine last time, and I'm gonna enjoy it this time. So we took an Uber and it was wonderful. But I mean, the cool part is is now there's so many other options too for rides and stuff. And I know there's some wine tours, there's just options. And I think that that's what people need to realize is like, if you want to learn, if you want to try something new, get out and have some fun. And it, you know, the experience, the experience is gonna be awesome if you do.

SPEAKER_00 39:18

Yeah, and I think that a lot of people, I can't speak for everybody in the industry, but I think that a lot of people are trying to meet the consumer where they're at. So if that's partnering with a driver in town that's going to recommend you to all of their guests, or if that is, you know, lowering the barrier for entry, making a more casual tasting rather than the very formal one, like just trying to like meet the consumer where they're at in their wine journey.

SPEAKER_02 39:43

I love that because there's never a wrong option, you know, but the worst option is if someone doesn't try something and they sit there and they're just intimidated to start. And I think that's a great thing to help people get their foot in the door. And I see this with martial arts and stuff, or even the gym. You see the videos of the gym where someone shows up at the gym and they don't know what they're doing, and people go, look at this guy, he doesn't know how to use it. But the reality is most gyms you go in, they're gonna be like, dude, welcome. And if you're you're doing it wrong, most people are not gonna laugh at you. They're gonna be like, hey, you want some help? You might want to try this. And I think that most wineries are gonna be like that. Most wine experiences and most people who love wine are gonna, I have met in even in this podcast and other areas, I think I've only met one wine snob. And it was not with this podcast. It was when I worked at a winery many, many, many, many, many years ago. And I that's the only ever time, that's the only time I've ever met someone who I would consider a wine snob. And it was just like, you know, hung up on themselves. But 99.99% of the other people have been so chill. And they're just like, dude, I love it. You can love it too.

SPEAKER_00 40:55

Exactly. And that's uh one of the things that I like so much about hosting people and just chit-chatting about wine because I love it so much. And if I can get somebody, you know, who finds the wine that sparks it for them, I think that's really exciting. I had a group in the within the last month who came in and they just said, we don't we don't want to drink red wine, we only drink Chardonnay. We're lucky we have a lot of Chardonnay. So I was like, okay, just forget the menu that's in front of you. I'm gonna go open five Chardonnays and we're just gonna taste that. And by the end of the tasting, and after hearing me talk about the wines the way that I did, they were like, okay, you're really like Pinot, so we want to try one Pinot. If we're just gonna try one of them, can we do that? And then they tried it, really loved it, and bought it. And so trying to just, again, it's a meeting people where they're at. They they saw how passionate I could be about our white wines and showcasing those to the to their palate. And then they're like, let's just, let's just try something, one more thing.

SPEAKER_02 41:51

I love that. I I think that that's I remember that I showed up at a winery and I was hellbent on I'm a red guy. I like reds. I grew up with reds, reds where I came from. Red, red, red, red, red. Someone's like, all right, man, try this rose. And it's like, I am not gonna like this. God, that is good, you know. And then they were like, all right, try this white. I was like, my wife knows I am like, I am not a white drinker. I do not like whites. This is not my cup, but that is delicious. And I've just like, it caught me off guard, but like I needed someone who could help me get out of my comfort zone per se, you know, and I think that that's what the best, you know, people that are hosting and giving these great experiences do. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:38

Where where can people go to find out more about you and what you do and also the winery?

SPEAKER_00 42:45

Yeah. So if you go to Bonoviawinery.com, um, we have a discover page that gives you all the information about everyone on our team, um, including myself. And that's the best way to find me, find the winery, um, check out our experiences. We really have something for everyone. I think that every winery obviously has like their own philosophy around how they take care of guests, how they show up and show their wine to people. Obviously, for me and for where I work currently, like I want everybody to feel like we are approachable luxury. So it's it is it's a luxury product. Everybody kind of knows that right now, but you don't have to dress up to come here and see it, or you don't have to know everything about it. I think that can be really intimidating when people first start. Because you walk into a place where you're you want to have fun, uh, but everybody you feel like everybody around you knows so much more than you do. And um, I think that the the most fun about wine is that like everybody can start wherever they're at. They're everybody has a starting point, you know. Um, and it it doesn't, you don't have to be the most knowledgeable person in the room to have really good community around wine. Um the the what surrounds wine is community and it brings people together, it gives you a talking point, it gives you just something that you can all really basically break bread together. Um, in terms of events, uh I really want it to be kind of like we talked about, like I want it to be an experience that someone walks away with something memorable. And if that is they got to taste a grape off of the vine during harvest, or if they got to, you know, really see the difference between uh a Chardonnay leaf and a Pinot Noir leaf on our property, these things that people don't un don't don't know yet that are different, that are really fun and interesting to find out. I think all of those really um contribute as to like why I do different things in different events. You know, who finds the wine that sparks it for them, I think that's really exciting. I had a group in the within the last month who came in and they just said, we don't we don't want to drink red wine, we only drink Chardonnay. We're lucky we have a lot of Chardonnay. So I was like, okay, just forget the menu that's in front of you. I'm gonna go open five Chardonnays and we're just gonna taste that. And by the end of the tasting, and after hearing me talk about the wines the way that I did, they were like, okay, you really like Pinot. So we want to try one Pinot. If we're just gonna try one of them, can we do that? And then they tried it, really loved it, and bought it. And so trying to do, again, it's a meeting people where they're at. They they saw how passionate I could be about our white wines and showcasing those to the to their palate, and then they're like, let's just let's just try something, one more thing. They felt nervous bringing wine to me or having wine with me. And um, they would always ask about price point and like what it if it's a good region to get it from. And ultimately, I want to break everything down for everyone. Just honestly, the most important thing about wine is if you like it. It doesn't matter if it's a 95 point wine or a hundred point wine by whoever, like you don't know that person. Um, it matters if you like it. And so um it's always something that you know comes back to your palate, everyone's is different. Um, I always ask, especially when I have groups, more than you know, four people, no one ever agrees on what their favorite is. And that's the thing that's most fun about wine.