Owning Wine Gets Messy | Carol Collison | Barrels and Roots

Owning a winery may look glamorous from the outside, but Carol Collison reveals the financial pressure, relentless sales work, and difficult decisions happening behind every bottle. As an M&A advisor specializing in smaller wine companies and the host of the Small Fortune podcast, Carol has worked with owners who have bought, sold, and closed wineries across one of the most challenging periods the wine industry has faced. In this conversation, I explore why successful wineries require active management, constant adaptation, strong profit margins, and years of investment before a single bottle creates revenue. 

We also discuss the global decline in wine demand, why some respected brands are disappearing, and how emotional attachment can prevent owners from selling at the right time. Carol explains why winding down a family winery can be even harder than selling one and why knowing when to stop can sometimes save an entrepreneur from a much greater loss. 

This episode exposes the unfiltered reality of winery ownership and what it truly takes to survive in the wine business. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Nobody told me the wine business would be so hard. And I was thinking, you know, well, I've got a podcast about why the wine industry is so hard. I should talk to her. So I interviewed her. Lovely, really talented young woman, had created this brand called Margins, and it was based, she had a tasting room in Santa Cruz. Um, and so we talked about, you know, and she had, you know, what happened to her is what happened in the industry. She had a, you know, every year she would do a release in the fall, and it would sell through pretty regularly without any effort. You know, her various distributors would take their allocation, no problem. And in uh the middle of, I think it was 23 maybe, which is really when the trouble really started in earnest. Um uh, you know, she had her fall release and nobody took any wine. I mean, it was just out of the blue for her. Um, and she worked her way through it, and um I uh so published the interview. Uh about six months later, she actually reached out to me and she said, I'm not gonna make it. This is not gonna work. Um and uh she wanted to her parents were you know, you should sell the wine company. And she knew there wasn't gonna be a buyer. Uh, but she could tell their parents. I talked to a professional and she told me, because I, you know, I confirmed, yeah, there's it's not that somebody wouldn't buy the wine, it's just that it would be hard for, you know, you it's they're hard to find. These are confidential processes. It's really difficult to find a a buyer, and unless it's really obviously something that has value in the market. So I confirmed, no, nobody's gonna buy your wine company.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Welcome everybody back to the Barrels and Roots Podcast. I'm your host, Sean Trace, and I have a really awesome guest with me today. Can you tell people who you are and a little bit about what you do?

SPEAKER_00 2:00

Uh my name is Carol Collison. I am a uh MA advisor in the wine industry. Uh, I specialize in working with smaller wine companies. And uh also three years ago started a podcast, so I'm also a podcaster. I have a podcast called Small Fortune, which is based on the old industry joke. What does it take to make a small fortune in the wine business? You start with a large fortune. So it's it's it's really about how hard a business it really is.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

So it's super, but it's awesome that you're having those stories. And that's one of the beautiful things about a podcast is that we can get out there and have those beautiful stories because if we don't have them, we can't talk about this stuff. I want to ask you this question, though. What first drew you into the wine industry and what made you decide to stay?

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Well, it's pretty much convenience. I live in uh through Sa Happenstance, ended up living in a Solano County uh in California, which is the county just east of Napa County. And so I was in banking uh initially in small business lending and started doing uh consulting with community banks, started working with some community banks in the Napa Valley. And uh what I discovered about the wine business that was appealing to me uh is that uh the the folks who are in it are fairly connected internationally. You know, a lot of small businesses in California are uh that I was you know working with were you know based in California, serving California consumers, you know, that that's where it begins and ends. But in the wine business, um, you know, people, if you're a winemaker, like my daughter-in-law, she's worked in who she's a winemaker and she's worked in Germany, and she's worked in um France, and I think she did a stint in Australia, you know. So it and you know, and the the business itself, the product itself, you know, just it's it's its modern origin is in Europe. So it just it's more of an international type of clientele. Um, and that just was more appealing to me. And and then the other thing from a banking perspective, because now I do you know sell site advice, but for years I was a lender. And the thing about the wine business is that it is um, you know, mostly small, closely held companies for which sort of capital markets and you know other sources of financing are not really relevant or available. So it really is very much a bank financed uh or you know, retained earnings financed industry. There's not a lot of fancy finance going on. So good from a business perspective.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

Yeah. Oh, I wanted to ask you this question because you've worked with winery owners for years. What do the most successful ones have in common?

SPEAKER_00 4:43

Yeah, the um mostly hard work. You know, it you do uh I think success, to be successful, uh you really have to roll your sleeves up. Um there there are, of course, you know, a lot of wealthy people who uh are attracted to the industry and see it as their, you know, second, you know, after they retire with all their money, they'll go, you know, you can't set it and forget it. You can't, uh it just really doesn't work unless you're in there on on the premises, uh checking the numbers and you know, talking to your employees and you know, rolling, you do travel all over the country uh to sell your wine. Um and I think that a lot of folks when they realize how much hard work it is, and it's not just a nice little retirement thing, they uh they they they it doesn't work for them. So yeah, it's mostly hard work. Um, but you know, you have to also you have to pay attention to sales and profits. And um, you know, there are a lot, again, sort of the dilettante wealthy people who, you know, have plenty of money to throw into the winery, but as a friend once joked, you know, even billionaires get tired of writing checks eventually, you know. So um yeah, you really do have to work it. It's a it's it's a tough business.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Super. And it's interesting too because um I think people like the prestige, like the growth, the glamour, like this, oh yeah, this is my winery, you know, we're gonna go up to my winery. But then they realize it's hard work, man. Like people have to show up and you have to like get there and you have to be plugging it, you know. And and this is a question I have for you because like, why do so many people dream of owning a winery and what do they usually underestimate about it?

SPEAKER_00 6:29

Well, uh I'm kind of sharing uh jokes of other people, but um, one one of the jokes is um people buy a winery when they can't afford a football team. You know, it's uh it's it's it's it's uh it is it it can be a game for the wealthy. But you know, a lot of the very successful ones are um, you know, somebody who, you know, there's two two ways that people typically begin a business. Um one is build a better mousetrap, you know, you have an idea. Um, and the other is you learn the business as an employee somewhere and then you start your own. And uh there's a little bit of all of that in the wine business. I mean, some people invent some new approach uh to wine, like canned wine, which started a young guy up in Oregon. Uh, I think the brand was underwood. Um, you know, he probably didn't, he wouldn't, if he were working for a winery, I don't know his origin story, but he probably would not have had uh anybody, you know, willing to listen to him about a canned wine product. But you know, he went out and did it himself and became very successful and created the category that didn't exist before he built the wine company. So um uh yeah, I I think I forgot your initial question.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

Like what when people get into wineries, why do they what do they not under like what do they not think is gonna be there? You know, like what challenges?

SPEAKER_00 7:54

I think the sales is the thing that catches many folks who are coming from outside. Uh that's the challenge. I think they don't really clock. Um you can sell your wine to friends and family, you know, you a small couple hundreds, you know, no problem, you know, uh getting that. You can your favorite restaurants and you know, you can you can hand sell a couple hundred cases of production. But when you get past that, you know, now you are having to um really hustle to get placements. You're having to deal with distributors, um, you're having to they call it drag the bag, you know. You're you've you've you're going out in in the market with wine samples, with, you know, right along with your representative in that market, you're you're going to retailers, you're going to restaurants. You're hustling. And so, you know, that that does not appeal over the long term. I mean, personally, I'm not not a big travel nut, right? I look very happy that my career has enabled me to never have to really travel very much. And so, you know, if you're not into that aspect of it too, if you're not ready to fly to New York for an event or fly to, you know, Ohio or whatever, I mean, it it's it's uh that probably catches quite a few people who come from the outside by surprise.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

Right. I um I was like one of the things that I think that people don't realize about some of those arts, like whether it be food or fine dining. And um I remember my friend was a chef in the Napa Valley, and he worked at this one restaurant that had this amazing spinach and artichoke dead. I would spoon a little bit out of it, and she's like, this is amazing. And one day I was like, ah, can we get more of it? He's like, Yep. And he says, that right there is probably one of the most valuable things in here. It's like one of the most hard, like amount of effort that goes into that. I was like, why? And he's like, like, imagine a giant truck filled with spinach. Like that's how much we have to like to simmer down for one day. And he's like, and then we have to simmer it, then we have the amount of artichoke I have to put in there. And he's like, and we hand make that every single day, and it's gone by the end of the day. And he's like, it's just one little appetizer that we have going with bread. And he says, and people don't understand the amount of work that goes into the little things, and you know, in any type of food and wine, there is this level of work that goes into stuff that people don't know. And I I wanted to ask you this: like, what's one lesson about running a winery that every wine lover should know?

SPEAKER_00 10:42

What they may not think about, uh, but what is really key to what makes it such a risky endeavor, is that if you're enjoying a nice glass of red wine, um the vines, uh, you know, they you put those things in the ground, it's four years before you get a fur a decent crop, you know. But more to the point, even if you're able to just buy the grapes, um, you know, that bottle of wine uh was crushed in, where are we? It's 26, so you know, it was crushed in the 22 or the 23 harvest and processed and and aged in barrel and eventually bottled. And usually you there's a thing called bottle shock. So you actually, you know, you have to bottle it and let it sit um for it, you know, most people will say at least six months. So I mean, by the time you're a consumer enjoying a glass of wine, that represents years and years and years of financial investment and work and all the rest of it. So it's um you know, an inventory is sort of the the the killer uh of wine business. You have to really stay on top of it because you it is a massive investment and you can't turn it into cash for a couple of years. So um you have to really make sure, and it's hard. I mean, if think about it's difficult enough to forecast demand for next year. Imagine that you're trying to guess how much wine uh you're gonna be able to sell two or three or four years later. And uh, and that's where you know it's a big it's not a flexible business. Unlike like if you're making vodka and there's a sudden increase or decrease in demand, you just run the still 24. You know, you can you can switch on and off the supply of that kind of spirit. Even beer is made daily. But wine's made over multiple years. And so if there's a whether it's an increase in demand or a decrease in demand, there's nothing that they can uh a wine winery owner can do in the short term. So that's I think the you know the inventory cycle is the thing that people I think probably don't think about, but it's very makes it very risky.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

I um I think that people don't realize how hard it is to like food and beverage, wine, and different things. Like one of the interesting things, like um, my friend was getting into a restaurant and he's like, Well, I have two options. One is to have one like a few, like two or three items on the menu and do them really well, or to have a really diverse menu. But he's like, I want to have a diverse menu with lots of different foods. And I was like, Whoa, do you do understand that you're gonna have to carry a lot of different inventory that's not that's gonna go bad? And he's like, Yeah, but it's my vision, it's my dream. He toned that back pretty aggressively after a short period of time because he's like, I'm just hemorrhaging money, you know? And he's like, I'm spending all this thing and I'm losing money. And, you know, and it's interesting too, because you've talked with people who bought wineries, sold wineries, and even shut down wineries. We, which of those decisions is usually the hardest, you know?

SPEAKER_00 13:51

Well, uh, you know, I will say, and by the way, restaurants is the hardest business. So, and so yeah, you know, uh, it's it's it's hilarious when somebody in the wine business also gets in the restaurant business. Or, you know, we you can't do it as much in California, but I interviewed a guy who had a winery up in uh it's a very common business model up in in Canada where you have a winery and a restaurant, and we were just laughing at the preposterousness of having combining the two worst businesses that from a risk from a risk standpoint. It's just like, why are you anyway? Um, so buying, selling, or are or or winding down. Um I would say the buying is pe people, you know, we've been talking about rich people starting wineries. They usually start their own, they want to put their label on, their name on the label. You know, it's very much a vanity project. Um, but from the standpoint of the who's gonna buy a winery, who buys a winery, um, you know, we kind of track transactions in our firm. And um it, you know, 85% plus or minus of wineries are bought by other wineries. Um and so for the buyer of wineries, which is again typically, and you know, and and then a small sliver would be financial buyers, but these are business decisions. So, you know, for an individual manager making the business decision to buy a winery, sure there's a little bit of risk. Um, but uh it's a business decision. So it's it's not there's not a lot of you know drama around this, you know. I, you know, you're I'm a cab producer and and Pinot's hot. I need a Pinot brand, uh go buy a Pinot brand, you know. Um, so that's not that complicated. I wish they did it more. I wish we had more buyers, but right now we don't have very many buyers at all because we're in a bit of a mess. But um, and then selling, selling is, I think, you know, this these are my clients, um, are people who have decided to sell. And it's almost always because uh, you know, occasionally I, you know, some of the the big folks get in with an intention to sell, they build the thing to grow. But um that that's the exception to the rule. The general rule is that you are somebody who first or second generation in the wine business, and the next generation is just not interested. Um, and so you're selling because uh, you know, and it's it's been your life's your life's work, and and to to to send it to, you know, hand it off to somebody is very difficult. So that is a very tough decision, and and often people, you know, wait until it's too late. Like, you know, that you've got the great Pinot brand, you're loving the experience of owning your Pinot brand. Um, you know, that ship has sailed, right? Uh that that ship sailed years ago, shortly after the uh people will remember, I'm sure, the sideways phenomenon where um very famous uh movie where the premise of which was this the you know the main character hated Merlot and loved Pinot. And and it's funny because consumers are so I don't know, suggestible or I mean it was just a stampede for Pinot at that point. Um and if you had a Merlot house, you were you were trying to convert to another uh another varietal pretty quick. Um at any rate, so it's a tough decision, and there were folks with great Pinot brands that chose not to sell during the Pinot hype period, and they may never be able to, you know, they may never there aren't as many transactions as people think there are, not as many buyers. So um, yeah, you kind of have to strike while the iron is hot, and if you don't, you miss your moment, um, you're just gonna keep owning it. Um so uh but but it is an emotional decision, so that that people do delay until you know sort of they might have done better if they sold at the at the you know when when when their um you know their varietal or their story was appealing. There's plenty of folks who've had wonderful offers that um, you know, maybe they thought weren't good enough, and so they you know they held off and now they're gonna own that thing forever. Um so you know, as a seller, to having the discipline to sell when the opportunity arises is um it's tough because again, these are businesses, but uh you may be living on the estate, right? So, you know, to to sell your winery, you have to contemplate like strangers on your property. Um or you have to contemplate moving. Um so so for a seller, you know, it can be a momentous decision, and many just wait till whatever, you know, they go out feet first. So, and then their their heirs uh have to figure out what to do with it. So it yeah, it is kind of a tough decision. And then it is actually a lot of work. I mean, that's obviously what I do is help people who want to sell work through preparation for that because it's just not um it's a buyer, again, getting back to where I started with this, the buyers are typically other wine companies. Um, so they really know their stuff if they're successful enough to be actually acquiring another winery. And so they're gonna be rolling up, you know, they're gonna get into the weeds of your business. And so you to prepare for a sale, you have to get into the weeds of your business. And you may be looking at things, I mean, it's surprising that sometimes I find that a winery owner might, for example, not do specific costing. Now, this is this is accounting and extremely boring, but but um they may just dump all their costs of production in one big bucket, you know, and or they may make you know distinctions between reds and whites because those things are processed differently, but they may not get all the way down to the product level and um uh product by product level. And so, you know, we got to get into that kind of level of detail because the buyer is gonna want to know which of these wines are are profitable and by how much. So it's a lot of work. So that's another reason. I mean, just the work effort to sell is sometimes probably a big hurdle. There's like, oh my God, I know I'm, you know, all these sort of um, you know, piano tops. I'm full. There's a famous quote, like, you know, if you're in the middle of the ocean in a in a in a in a in a boat disaster and you find a you know a piano top to hang on to, I think it's Buck Mr. Fuller. Um uh, you know, it's fine in the moment to to, but it doesn't mean that, you know, a flotation device should be designed as a, you know, as a tabletop. You know, it's like, you know, so there are all these things in business that we cut corners and and just do whatever because it works. Um, but then, you know, when you get into a transaction, some of these sort of things that you hadn't paid a ton of attention to become something you have to address. So uh and that happens actually that comes up quite a bit as it relates to real estate entitlements. Like, you know, you know your neighbors always let you, doesn't care that your well's on his property, but a buyer is gonna not be willing to walk into that situation. So you actually, if you're preparing to sell this thing that was fine for you, like, yeah, yeah, my neighbor and I are buddies, he lets me, you know, my wine is my wells on his property, it's no big deal. Well, when you go to sell, it's a problem. So you actually have to clean that up before you even go to market. There's also all sorts of reasons why. So selling, selling is hard. Um, and then of course, there's the fact that actually, you know, you can get out to market, and most of the time, in fact, you're not going to find a buyer. So it's a lot of work and you may end up just having to wind your business down after all. Um yeah. And then, you know, I I just recently in my podcast. Podcast did an interview with a young woman. I had interviewed her in 24, which was kind of the beginning. I your listeners are pretty up to speed with what's going on in the wine industry, right?

SPEAKER_01 22:14

Yeah, very much so.

SPEAKER_00 22:15

Okay. Yeah, I figured. So they know that we're in a the downturn that I characterize as the worst since prohibition. I mean, it's it's a very difficult situation we're in right now. Um and so she was interviewed by the San Francisco Chronicle, and I read the article and reached out to her. Um, and in it she had said, Nobody told me the wine business would be so hard. And I was thinking, you know, well, I've got a podcast about why the wine industry is so hard. I should talk to her. So I interviewed her. Lovely, really talented young woman, um, had created this brand called Margins, and it was based, she had a tasting room in Santa Cruz. Um, and so we talked about, you know, and she had, you know, what happened to her is what happened in the industry. She had a, you know, every year she would do a release in the fall, and it would sell through pretty regularly without any effort. You know, her various distributors would take their allocation, no problem. And in uh the middle of, I think it was 23 maybe, which is really when the trouble really started in earnest. Um uh, you know, she had her fall release and nobody took any wine. I mean, it was just out of the blue for her. Um, and she worked her way through it, and um I uh so published the interview. Uh about six months later, she actually reached out to me and she said, I'm not gonna make it. This is not gonna work. Um and uh she wanted to her parents were you know, you should sell the wine company. And she knew there wasn't gonna be a buyer. Uh, but she could tell their parents. I talked to a professional and she told me, because I, you know, I confirmed, yeah, there's it's not that somebody wouldn't buy the wine. It's just that it would be hard for, you know, you it's they're hard to find. These are confidential processes. It's really difficult to find a buyer, and unless it's really obviously something that has value in the market. So I confirmed, no, nobody's gonna buy your wine company. Uh, and then I didn't hear from her until the Chronicle interviewed her a year just recently, like three or four months ago, about the fact that she had wound down the company. And so I did a subsequent uh interview to talk to her about winding down the company. And it sounds frankly like that's the toughest thing to do when you hear her story at the sort of the emotion of, you know, that she was this was going to be her career, uh, you know, founding her own winery, all the blood, sweat, and tears, all the investment. You know, she owed growers money, she owed banks money, she owed, you know, family money. Um and so the, you know, and the lifestyle, right? You this is who you are, it's your identity. So I would say of the three, buying, selling, or winding down, it's clear to me that winding the business down is the toughest thing because it won't exist anymore. I mean, I'm working with somebody right now, he's third generation in this business, and it's a very charming little business that I hope I will find a buyer for. Um and and but he just he wants this, you know, family name on the label to exist in the world. Um, you know, he doesn't want to be the generation that couldn't make it through. And so we're trying to find a buyer for him. Um, maybe we will, maybe we won't. But I think that when why that's the other thing about winding on a wine company is it's sort of um you've you've you're giving up in some sense and and on on something that was so important to you, and in his case, you know, multiple generations. So that I would say of those three ways, uh, you know, parts of a transaction, that's gonna be the hardest to have to give up. But I will say I make I want but I want to say that um, and I as I said to her in the interview, being real, being and this goes for any kind of entrepreneurial effort, any kind of business effort, you know, your persistence is required to to be an entrepreneur. You have to really be tough because there's many challenges you have to work through, even if everything goes swimmingly. Um so it's very difficult to hear the information that the market may be telling you that this business isn't gonna, isn't gonna go. And so some people, there's an expression in finance that your first loss is your best loss. I don't know if you've heard that, but uh but it expresses the idea that um if the signals that you're getting in the market are just clearly this, you know, you're not making any money, uh, your sales aren't growing, if you're the you know, you're really getting signals that this enterprise is not going to work, the real discipline is to do what's required at that moment, which is to wind the company down because you can lose a lot more money and end up with the same result. You could still be having to wind it down two or three years later, but now you've borrowed more money and you know, you've spent more time, you know, all of that. So it's sort of a finding that discipline of saying, okay, this isn't working, I have to get out is really, really tough. So anyway.

SPEAKER_01 27:41

It's a big deal. And I mean, I think that people don't understand all the time. I'm certain that people don't understand all the time the struggle that people have to go to, you know, and I mean, you you get into it and no one expects their their thing to fail. You know, no one starts out like, hey, I'm gonna get in and create a business and I am gonna fail hard. You know, but I think that one of the things that is um, you know, when you do enter these time periods where things are tough, you know, you you made a good point about like resilience. Like, how do you think resilience, what part do you think resilience plays, or is it better to pack it up when things are going bad, you know, or do you try to say, I'm gonna work through this, you know? I don't know. I'm curious.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

Yeah, and and nobody, you know, nobody knows. I mean, I'm self-employed myself, you know, and I've had those gut check periods of time where, you know, I I'm not making as much money as I want or need, and and but I've got years and years devoted to this profession and um what else I'm I mean, it's tough stuff, you know, it it really is. Uh it's it's hard to know. Um I just for myself would periodically when I got to these sort of pain points, try to test my own um, you know, my own reasons why I'm sticking with it to make sure that I'm not throwing good time and money after bad, you know, that I that the there, you know, that that I that persisting makes sense. So you just have to kind of, you know, uh find that balance, and it's hard.

SPEAKER_01 29:21

So Yeah, right. Well, I want to ask you, because we've been talking some of the doom and gloom with wine, but you know, do you have hope that things will bounce back or that things will get better?

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Yeah. Well, look, we're getting through a very difficult period. I think the consensus, I mean, somebody broke it down this way, and I think that's probably directionally correct. Um, you know, about a third of the people in the wine business, even today, even with these very significant shifts in demand, basically, is what the problem is, um, are doing great. They're making money and they're growing. That's about a third. About a third are, you know, back to the idea of persistence. They're they know they have something good that, but they know the the very specific problems are not going to last. And if they can they're just hanging on to get to the other side where where you know the demand-supply balance um, you know, returns, and then they can move forward and grow. And and so that's like a third of the in business. And the third of the business is not going to make it to the other side. We are gonna lose many, many, many brands. And um and you know, some are brands that just really didn't need to exist in the first place, some are brands that are really fabulous, and it's a shame. Like very I mean, I'm not telling this is a public story, but Carlisle, are you familiar with that brand? No, I don't know. They were a small brand, highly regarded, you know, top, top scoring. They specialized in Old Mind Zinfandel and Syrah. But, you know, they were always like 95 in the spectator, you know, just the really well-regarded wine company, no doubt doing well and making money. Um and uh I don't know if they tried a sale process or not, but basically they publicly announced sometime last year, we're closing up shop. You know, and so even a so even a very famous, very successful winery um is going away. And there's there's more and more of that happening right now. So about we're gonna be a smaller industry in um in the US and a smaller in all across the globe. I mean, it's happening everywhere. It's it's France, it's Australia, it's Chile. I mean it's a global demand shift, and so it's a global supply adjustment that's having to happen right now. And um, but uh it's you know, business isn't tiddlywinks, you know. It's it's tough stuff. It and and um and we'll get through, and we we are. I mean, we're we're sort of toe on the bottom right now, I think, and and um thing, you know, things will get better from here. Um so yeah, and it's a great business to be in, and you know, I don't know. I'd personally would rather do it than selling insurance, but there's plenty of people I'm sure who are passionate about their insurance business.

SPEAKER_01 32:15

So Yeah. I want to ask ask you this. After all the conversations you've had across the wine industry, what do you think separates wineries from last from those that disappear?

SPEAKER_00 32:25

Uh I think that the ones that last generally um have you know really switched on management that or ownership or management, you know, with the combination of the two, that just are constantly reviewing the business. They are not uh set it and forget it. You know, they're not um, well, this worked last year, so it's gonna work next year. I mean, they're they're they're they're paying attention and adjusting constantly. Um that you know may mean they're keep you know, adjusting price or they're switching up products, you know. Um during the pandemic, you know, that was a perfect time when a lot of people didn't make it through because they just didn't want to this, you know, having selling wine in the tasting room was what worked for me. I can't do that anymore. And so I'm I you know that's it. I'm out. You know, I just you know, you have to have that flexibility. The people who were succeeded got very, very creative, right? They they did, you know, virtual tastings on Zoom where they sent everybody the wine and then we did the tastings together, or um, you know, any uh not when tasting rooms could open, but only, you know, they they created, you know, safe spaces for tasting so that people could come but be remain, you know, far away from one another. I mean, um some, you know, they found new uh wholesale opportunities where they were, you know, maybe before that they were strictly direct to consumer, but then they found some wholesale outlets, you know. They hustled. Uh and you know, yes, of course, there are these big dramatic challenges that, you know, you where you you you really see the, you know, severely separates the men from the boys, but but even in a normal period of time without any dramatic challenges, uh, you still have to be on your game all the time. You have to be watching, and you know, one of the things that seems silly to forget, but profits. I mean, you gotta be watching, you got to to be sustainable, to be make a multi-generational or a very long-lived business, you do actually have to make money. You know, you have to you have to have built a company, you have to have products at the right price, right? You can't have be selling a you know, $50 worth of wine for $25 and calling yourself a successful business owner. You know, you you have to be selling $50 bottles of wine for $75 if you can, you know, build a brand that allows you to do that. Um so uh, you know, keeping an eye on profits, I think, is probably really super important and making sure you understand profit at the um, you know, there's a lot of ways to, you know, one of the things that is uh open discussion in the industry right now is how how well you're paying attention to. So a lot of most wine companies are direct to consumer. And you're spending a lot of money on tasting room staff. And and and how people are, you know, people would say, oh, look, I get I'm getting 75% gross margin selling direct to consumer, and I only get 50% if I sell it wholesale, therefore direct to consumer is better. Well, you know, you're throwing a lot of staff and expense to get that 75% gross margin. So, you know, keep it make paying attention to, you know, everything you do, you need to gut check. Does this make sense? Is it going to be profitable? Is it gonna help grow? You just have to be on all those questions all the time.

SPEAKER_01 36:10

Yeah. Quick question though. If you had to pour a glass right now for yourself, what glass are you pouring?

SPEAKER_00 36:17

Oh, haha. Yeah. Well, I will say, and I do it all the time, that I am not a uh wine nerd at all. Um I I know what I like. That's awesome. Um yeah, and and I don't even have a particularly sophisticated palate. I will but but but having been around it enough, of course. I mean, I'm no slouch. Uh I I don't personally, unless it's a dessert wine, I don't like uh, you know, residual sugar in my uh wine beverage. But um uh but to each his own. I'm not looking down my I've heard about a new uh uh product I'm absolutely fascinated by and want to learn more. Uh it's a combination of Coke, Coca Cola, and red wine. What it's a thing. Apparently, I know it comes out of Spain. I can't wait to try it. Um so anyway, uh but for me, I would say my general preference at the moment is uh kind of a GSM, you know, grenache, seram, ouvedre, kind of a chateau neuf-to-pop. That was my dad's favorite was Chateau Neuf-to-Pop. And I in my old age I seem to have settled into that preference for the um those varietals.

SPEAKER_01 37:27

That's awesome. Well, where can people go to learn more about you and what you do?

SPEAKER_00 37:34

Well, um, my website is Global Wine Partners. Um what are we, yeah, just Google Global Wine Partners that you'll you'll you'll find us there and you link to the podcasts if you want to check into those. And yeah, if you have a winery or you want to buy a winery for sure, definitely look me up. Especially a buyer. We don't have enough buyers, so yeah, call me. I'll sell you some.