From Soldier To Winemaker | Martyn Pollock | Barrels and Roots

In this episode of the Barrels and Roots podcast, I sit down with Martyn Pollock, cofounder and managing director of Nine Oaks Vineyard, a family-run English vineyard in Kent. Martyn shares how he went from serving in the British Army and working in East Africa to selling his home, returning to the United Kingdom during the pandemic, and planting a vineyard with his wife.

We talk about the unexpected realities of English wine, including unpredictable weather, frost, vineyard disease, changing consumer habits, and the challenge of building a recognizable wine brand from scratch. Martyn also explains why English sparkling wine is gaining attention, how climate and location influence every vintage, and why the experience surrounding a bottle can completely change how it tastes.

This conversation explores traditional-method sparkling wine, Chardonnay, Bacchus, orange wine, vineyard ownership, small wine producers, and the importance of sharing the honest story behind every bottle.

Do you think the story and people behind a wine can change how much you enjoy drinking it?

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Um, neither of us have a traditional wine background or a uh farming background. Um, so I was in the British Army for 10 years. I was in the Boy of Engineers, and my wife um uh is an academic. We my last 10 year my last four years of service in the British Army, uh, we were based in Kenya uh in East Africa. And I left the army in 2018, and we worked stayed in Kenya for another couple of years, and I worked for a US company, um, doing working in solar energy and um um electromobility in uh in western Kenya. And we suddenly realized, you know, it it was time to come home home to the UK for a number of reasons. And we'd always talked about, you know, we're gonna plant a vineyard one day, you know, when we retire, that you know, that romantic dream of um kind of uh retiring off into the sunset and that kind of easy vitacultural life. And we found ourselves at a bit of a crossroads and we thought, you know, why not just do it now? So, you know, in 2019 we sold our house uh to found the business in the UK and um you know got on a flight. We landed back in the UK in February 2020, straight into COVID, which was a bit of a bit of a shock for us, but uh, you know, worked out in the end, and um yeah, um planted in May 2020 and have gone from there really.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Welcome everybody back to the Barrels and Roots Podcast. I'm your host, Sean Trace, and I have an awesome guest with me today. Would you like to tell people who you are and a little bit about what you do?

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Uh thanks, Sean. Um, so my name is Marlin Pollock. I am the managing director and co-founder of Nine Old's Vineyard. We're a small family-run vineyard um based in Kent in England, um, and we grow champagne varieties and bacchus, and we make still and traditional methods sparkling wines.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

That's awesome. How did you get started on this path? How did you dive in and what was it that uh that made you embark upon this journey?

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Yeah, so I think um the first thing to say is neither my wife, so it's my wife and I who run the business. Um, neither of us have a traditional wine background or a uh farming background. Um so I was in the British Army for 10 years, I was in the Boy of Engineers, and my wife um uh is an academic. We my last 10 year, my last four years of service in the British Army, uh we were based in Kenya uh in East Africa. And I left the army in 2018, and we worked stayed in Kenya for another couple of years, and I worked for a US company, um, doing working in solar energy and um um electromobility in uh in western Kenya. And we suddenly realized, you know, it it was time to come home home to the UK for a number of reasons. And we'd always talked about, you know, we're gonna plant a vineyard one day, you know, when we retire, that you know, that romantic dream of um kind of uh retiring off into the sunset and that kind of easy vitacultural life. And we found ourselves at a bit of a crossroads and we thought, you know, why not just do it now? So, you know, in 2019 we sold our house uh found the business in the UK and um you know got on a flight. We landed back in the UK in February 2020, straight into COVID, which was a bit of a bit of a shock for us, but uh, you know, worked out in the end, and um yeah, um planted in May 2020 and have gone from there really.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

That's amazing. Like, but uh it's so interesting too because it's this this journey, and like was there a wine that first got you interested in wine? And and what and what do you remember about that moment? Do you remember the vintage, or was it just something that was more gradual?

SPEAKER_01 3:55

I think um I'll be a little cheeky and I'll and I'll talk about two wines uh and they really influence me. So um the first one going back, I'm really one of the first wines I ever had. So um going back to the late 90s, um you know, I'm obviously Scottish, I'm not English, which is a little bit strange for being in the English wine industry. Um I grew up on the west coast of Scotland, uh a place called Auburn, uh small kind of fishing town um on the coast. And uh growing up we lived in hotels, so you know my parents weren't hugely well off, but you know, we were hoteliers, uh, we'd kind of moved from small hotel to a small hotel and we we would live there. And my dad was a classically trained chef. Uh so we'd always have like a seafood and uh steak restaurant as part of the hotel. And I remember in the late 90s, um, you know, my uncle coming to stay, and it was a bit of a family get together. I think I must have been about 16 at the time, and we sat down for dinner. I don't remember what we ate um specifically, but knowing my dad it would have been a sirloin steak with pepper sauce and um you know cook medium rare because that was always his thing. And he set up some red wine, and uh at that point, you know, I'd I'd tried various different things, you know, I'd had beers, you know, kind of cider. I'd tried wine before, but it never really clicked in any way. And I've no idea the vintage, but it was a chateau neuf de pap that he served. And Chateau Neuf de Pap served with um sirloin steak. Um, you know, it was it was just kind of a match made in heaven, really. And I think for me that was the first moment that I went, wow, this is it can be more than just you know um you know, some foodie juice and a glass. You know, it can actually um it can actually um enhance both you know what you're eating, what you're drinking, but also um the entire experience as well. Uh the experience of being with other people, etc. So so that was the kind of wine and I and you know I became by no means became a wine buff from that point on. Um I never have been really, but I've come back and back and back to Sharon Nufti Park and that you know, GSM blend, um you know, um, you know, all throughout my kind of life, really. And it was really the wine that um set me off, I would say. And then the second wine, so I said that we lived in East Africa for several years. Um East Africa's not known to wines uh in any way, and uh there's a few different producers around, there's one in Kenya. Um there's a few in Ethiopia, and Ethiopia is you know, it's bang on the equator, it's a strange place to grow uh grapes and to make wine, but there's um a couple of producers, one in particular uh Rift Valley Wines, and I remember working in um northern Ethiopia in a place called Diradawa, and um I bought a bottle of wine from a convenience store, and it was you know it was baking hot, like you know, 40 degrees Celsius, not kept in the right way, etc. I think it was a Cab Solved Merlot blend, and it's not a wine that would have won, you know, competitions here or you know, got a huge number of points, but it was just it was a wine that really fitted in the moment. It's uh they've got really volcanic soils there, and so you know, it was a really like deep, rich uh red wine with a lot of character, and I think why it comes to mind really is it was fantastic in that moment and in that place, and then I did take some bottles home to Kenya and some back to the UK, and you know, it wasn't kind of the same experience either. So it was kind of it was really interesting to just discover that a wine can be you know it can be one thing in its own place and something else, you know, in a completely different context as well.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

That's interesting, and something that's really I had this one and I don't know what it was. Uh but it was an interesting wine that was just absolutely delicious in that moment. I had just finished doing something in the heat, it was hot, and it was this white and it was chilled perfectly, and I was just like, that is the most heavenly heavenly wine I've ever had. But I remember I went back to the same place a couple months later, weather was different, got the same wine, and I was just like that that's different. It just didn't hit the same way, and it was interesting too. And I said, Is this the same vintage, the same bottle, the same? They're like, this is the same everything, man. And I was like blown away because I didn't realize that that your own situation and what's going on around you can change things as well, you know.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

And it's the element of discovery, isn't it? It's I think there is fun in just not, you know, not knowing what you're gonna experience and not having that anticipation, and then all of a sudden you're like, wow, this really works. And I think sometimes you can't take that magic away. You can't replicate that. You can't then go out, you know, I'm gonna have this every single day. And I think one thing for us that I find really interesting is that I taste my wines every week. Um, you know, just you know, we we don't tend to open them, but there's always a tasting or there's you know a trade tasting or something. So you always taste check the wines, make sure everything's okay, etc. And you can see they change over time and they change in different scenarios. Um, you know, it it's not a static thing. So I think it's kind of it it's it's I think it's part of the mystery of wine for me, really. It's that uh you're always trying to kind of catch that at its best, you know, and it's not necessarily more time. It you know, it might be that moment or whatever. Um, and it always comes when you least expect it, I would say.

SPEAKER_00 9:34

That's a good point. It really does come when you least expect it. Like I you're never thinking about like, uh, this is gonna be the thing that just tastes a little, and you're just like, wow, that was amazing. I um I've had that a couple times with different foods and different drinks and definitely different wines, but it's such a special experience when you get it. But um I want I want to ask you this question. What is that one? Talk to me about what you got behind you, man. You referenced it. What do you got going on back there?

SPEAKER_01 10:00

This is our Blanc de Blanc 2022. Um, well, yeah, it was the second sparkling wine we ever made. Um, 100% Chardonnay, uh, three years on these. Um yeah, it's um you got a lot of citrus fruit, thorn dry, and there's touch of salincy in there as well. So um, yeah, one of our favourite ones. I just noticed it was on the manopete's behind me. Um we just got wine everywhere in our house. It's just like coming out there.

SPEAKER_00 10:23

That's awesome. It's a good thing to have, or it's kind of you keep it. But I don't want to ask you, but yeah. What made you decide to plant grapes and start a vineyard in England?

SPEAKER_01 10:35

Yeah, so I think it was um, you know, as I say, we had the life change and um, you know, we we just didn't have those careers that were you know that were walked back inable in the UK. Um, English wine was gaining in popularity, um, you know, and it was really surging um kind of late 2010s, early 2020s, uh, just before COVID. I mean, it still is, but it was particularly at that point. Um, I think, you know, for anyone who's not aware, um, you know, the Romans were the first people to bring vines to the UK 2,000 years ago. And then it kind of dropped off for about 2,000 years, and it was the 1950s, people started planting more like German varieties and things like Savo Blanc and Dornfelder, etc. And it was kind of um quite a regional thing. Um, you know, you'd go to a vineyard, maybe you taste some wines, you buy a couple of bottles, but it was never it didn't really have a huge amount of traction. And then we had a we have a brand called Night Timber, uh, that was planted uh by an American actually in the 1990s, and like a lot of things in in life, it just took a different set of eyes for someone to come and say, actually, we can put champagne varieties here. You know, we're super close champagne as it is anyway, and um and yeah, the night timber effect. So, you know, um since then, the last 30 years, it's really exploded, particularly with sparkling wine across the UK. Um, so yeah, we'd we'd had this plan that we were going to do it one day, and we just saw a kind of ripe moment both within the market, a ripe moment in our own lives as well. And we already had a piece of land. My wife um had a piece of land uh in Kent, which you know really is 90% of uh uh of the battle um to get right. Um so yeah, we thought we'll we'll take the plunge now um and and and go for it from there.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

I love that, man. Sometimes you have to dive in. But you know, i if someone who doesn't understand anything about wine asked you what does a vineyard owner do all day, what would you tell them?

SPEAKER_01 12:37

I think the first thing would be that I'd probably disappoint them. Um I mean there's a lot of things there, there's a lot of things that we do. It's like any small business, you end up doing pretty much everything. Um I would say somewhere between 60 and 70 percent of my day, and probably any um you know brand, you know, developer day, it's sales and it's gotta be sales. I think we are at a stage at the moment in the UK where um the concept of English wine is growing, you know, it's grown exponentially. Um but getting the product to market and getting your brand out there and getting people drinking it and talking about it is is the real it's the real hard work, really. So it's a lot of trade tastings, um, it's a lot of events, just getting in front of consumers, um, it's a lot of social media, um, it's a lot of going out and visiting you know bars, restaurants, etc. Um, and really just kind of anchoring yourself in the market. Um the other 20%, I would say, or another 20% is definitely the viticultural side. So we we try and stay very hands-on in the vineyards. Um, we do get a little bit of help, but um, I do the majority of stuff myself, so both the labour side, um, and then I tend to do my tractoring at night. So, you know, put the kids to bed and then just get out in the tractor and you know, do a spray or more weed or whatever it is the the that needs to be done at that time. And then I guess I'd say the last 10% is really building the business of the future. You know, what are we gonna do in five years, ten years time, you know, what's the market gonna look like, and you know, and how how do we innovate? So I think the easy answer is I'd definitely disappoint because I think it's you know, people want to see it as you know, riding around a tractor and kind of you know having a great time all the time. And there is an element of that, but it's um, yeah, I'd say it's it's uh a small business to improve.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

I I you know, I I think that one of the things is that I think sometimes people don't know what to expect, you know. Uh I recently had someone on that was a cattle farmer, and I was like, what do people think cattle farming do? And she's like, they literally think we're cowboys. Like they think every day I'm like riding a horse going, yeah. You know, she's like, they don't realize that like there's a lot of poop shoveling. There's like a lot of poop shoveling. Like, you gotta clean a bunch of poop and you gotta that's a lot of veterinary work. And she says, you know, people don't understand how much time is like spent around making sure that all the cows are not just well fed, but like, and she had a dairy farm and she was like, you know, if we want to keep the milk at the best quality, we need healthy animals. You gotta make sure that they're eating well and taking care of all these other things. And it's wild because people just don't know. They literally don't know. And they assume, and when we assume it it goes to wild and crazy areas, you know, of our brains that we we kind of make up the facts, but it's often left right. But I wanted to ask you this because as someone's doing it, what is the hardest part of growing grapes that most wine drinkers never see?

SPEAKER_01 15:39

I think um, I think the weather is definitely one of the biggest challenges that we have. Um especially we're an emerging, you know, we're an emerging industry. Um we planted our vineyards from first principles, as as uh a lot of um vineyards have been in the UK. Um, and therefore it's you know it's really crucial to get a good crop of the year and you know, and and and make sure you're kind of building up stocks and and and in a marginal climate in you know in what we are. Um you know it's it's not been very long since England was considered uh not growable uh in terms of the latitudes. Um we do get a lot of poor weather. Um 2024 we lost most of our crop, you know, almost all of it. And actually, it probably would have been better if we had lost all of it. Um it was just a wet and rainy summer. It started raining in January and didn't really finish till December. It was just um a complete washout, and we had a lot of downy and powdery mill during the vineyard. And I think it it's easy to assume that it's all sunshine and you know and everything's going well, and the bad years they don't come, or and or when they do, there's a big insurance policy that pays out or something. But you know, the reality is that um it's too inconsistent to have uh those insurance policies in place. Um you know, we don't have the government support that we might have in you know a traditional wine-growing uh country where you know it it is we're still seen as I wouldn't say a sideshow, but it's we're we're still um quite a small part of farming in the UK. And um, you know, it's definitely not seen as you know, I think in you know in France the government you know will and does step in um when there are big shocks because it is such an important part for the entire economy of the country, whereas we're not quite there yet. So I think the weather is definitely the big the biggest part that um I think you know people might not um fully realise just the impact that it can have um and how big a risk factor it is, you know. I mean I came from a um I was a consultant for many years after we planted. Um, you know, I worked in the city of London for four years um while we established. And actually, you know, you talk about managing risk, how we're gonna eliminate those risk, how are we gonna control those risk? And then you come into a farm and it's a well we can't do any of those things. Um, you know, and uh there there isn't the money to say, um, you know, as I say, put all the you know uh insurances in place to make sure that um that you know it it doesn't affect you.

SPEAKER_00 18:14

It's so interesting because weather, you know, I one of the things that I just think about with England is that the amount of rain and not a lot of sunshine, you know, does is that uh what is the biggest challenge with weather? You know, you recently battled frost in the vineyard. How stressful is it knowing that one night of weather can affect an entire year of work? Is frost the biggest danger or is it other things? What is the biggest weather challenge that you have?

SPEAKER_01 18:40

Yo, so we're in a sixth, we're in a sixth vintage now, and every single year has been completely different, you know. So we've had um, you know, the wettest year on record, the hottest year, the driest year. Um we kind of felt the frost was coming this year. So we did put some measures in, and I think we lost between somewhere between five and ten percent of crop, uh, which considering it was we had the uh conditions for quite a big crop year this year. So I think we we've been quite lucky. And I know uh vineyards close by and across across the country, uh, some that have lost you know almost everything or or everything. Um so frost is it it is really a big factor, but it's probably one of the factors that you can control a little bit more. So you know, there you can um you can um have uh frost candles, um, there's frost dragons and things that you can put into vineyard blow uh smoke and hot air around, etc., and uh you know and prevent um frost taking place. So I think frost frost is quite stressful, and it is a stressful time, those two months, April and May, when you are just watching the weather, you know, every single day. It drives you insane to go. And it makes you realise how generic the weather is as well. Uh you know, it might be rainy, it might not be, you know, and it's kind of um so you're you you kind of go a little bit crazy sometimes. Um and it is quite lonesome when you're out there at three o'clock in the morning lighting candles by yourself and you know, kind of moving around. And it's um but I I think it's it's probably the factor that is more controllable, and the ones that aren't are you know down in Padre No do, you know, if it decides to rain for three months, it's gonna rain for three months. And there's a lot of things you can do, but you know, once those, in particular those diseases um um take hold, it is very difficult to control.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

Yes, I can only imagine. Now I wanted to ask you this, like, um, but w I was reading, I was like looking at this up, and I was like, um, because I was like English wine? I just didn't think of England as a wine-growing region, but it's getting attention right now. Why is that?

SPEAKER_01 20:53

I think um I think there's a little bit of climate change. So things have got warmer, um, you know, so there's more, um, more people are planted. Um, sparkling wine has um, as I say, from the 90s, has really been um I'm you know, banging on the door of champagne. And we're very close to champagne, you know, we're we sit on the same uh seam of chalk, uh, we're less than 100 miles, etc., away from champagne. Um, from a still perspective, we've been getting better and better at uh making still wines, uh, particularly with traditional uh varieties like Chardonnay, Pinot Noir, um, etc. And I think um it's it's really starting to have a bit of a bow weight behind it. You know, when we first started six years ago, lots of people would um you know have preconceptions about English wine. Um they might think it's not very good or you know it's obscure varieties, etc. Whereas we're seeing it more and more that um particularly in the UK, the public's um sentiment towards English wine has been, you know, um really really strong and really powerful. I think people um do want to have uh locally made products. They want to reduce food miles and they want to engage with wine. I think um they want to in in engage with wine makers and actually, you know, they can from London we're less than 60 minutes on the train, you know, so you can be in the city in the in the morning, go and have a wine tasting in the afternoon, being back in the city in the evening. And you just can't do that with an Argentinian Malbek or you know an Australian Caraz or something. It's just, you know, and and I think we've never we've not had that before. And we're a big wine drinking nation. So I think it is um really powerful that um the consumer can engage in that way.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

That's awesome. I want to ask you this next question because it I'm just beyond curious. Like building a vineyard is one thing but building a wine brand is another what have you learned about creating a brand that people actually connect with you know it's a it's a really interesting question.

SPEAKER_01 22:53

I think you know a lot of people do they plant the vines and you know and that's a really exciting thing. You plant the vineyard and you go wow this is great. And then you get kind of sucked into working in the vineyard um and then it comes to you know you've got to make wine now so you know and in the UK most of us uh worked with contract wineries um in the beginning at least um so you get your wine made and then actually the sales and marketing piece um you know is it's a really tough market. You know English wine is generally um more expensive than um wines from other nations just because of the scale that we're on um and also the um uh the capital inputs that we've had to put in at this stage um so it's a yeah it's a it's a real uphill struggle so I think a lot of people when they get to that point where they've got a product to sell um underestimate you know the the value of uh brand building uh and how long it takes and and and how difficult it can be you know I think it's really important to I'd say market not necessarily you know firing out adverts and magazines and social media and things but having a a really consistent drum beat on social media or communication of you know what you're doing as a brand more than kind of who you are does that make sense in terms of um you know where you see your wines and you know and and where you're trying to we we try a lot to get out of the vineyards and get our wines in interesting places you know not necessarily restaurants or only but just you know landmarks places um and really trying tell as much of the story of you know why we got into this um to really develop that um you know brand awareness and it takes a lot of time and uh a lot of it is you're putting effort in and it feels like you're not getting anything back but you actually are so it's you know they say there's seven touch points in marketing before a person makes a decision and it's not necessarily all about sales it's about building awareness getting people invested in what you do um and then hopefully um you know building a customer base that will come back and back and back you know they may buy a bottle one day and then can't come for a vineyard tour and then come to a soccer club or something or you know and and I and and kind of keep that awareness you know going for the long term.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

That's really interesting. I wanted to ask you this too because the wine industry is changing rapidly what opportunities and challenges do you see smaller producers uh having to deal with over the next decade?

SPEAKER_01 25:32

Yeah no I think Sean that's a really good question because I I I think globally um consumption is definitely down you know I think um you know and there's a lot of people that are really concerned about that and there's a lot of voices around the world you know compared to Australia to the US to and Europe that are saying you know uh the younger generation are drinking less um you know they're drinking less than their parents did they're going out less and you know and and that being a really big problem and I think for mass market brands that's that that definitely would be an issue and there needs to be some kind of resetting and recalibration and you know and that's got to be really hard for some of the bigger um producing countries that you know maybe have to pull up their buyings or whatever. But I think going forwards um you know we just have to really be aware that the consumer is definitely asking the question why? You know well why should I drink a wine? And you know the old c I think the old message of well it's from this appellation and we've been doing this for 500 years doesn't necessarily land anymore. I think you know the kind of story behind it and the and it needs to be a genuine story as well of you know well I I did this because I wanted to get into wine and you know and and a lot of the storytelling around you know how difficult things are you know and I think that always lands a lot better in terms of um you know getting the message across and that it's a genuine thing rather than you know kind of sunsets and smiles you know because communicating some of the message for when things don't go to plan and that you don't get a call or that you get you know because these are just the realities of farming it's not anything unique to viticulture. So I think there are definitely opportunities uh for smaller brands and you know the use of social media um to communicate that message and and really build that brand following because I think we do have to be aware that we are competing against a really congested market. You know it's we're competing against tequilas, gins, beers, ciders and as I say the consumer really is saying well why why do I need to drink wine? And I think um it's not it's not an insurmountable mountain to climb but we just have to make sure that we maintain relevance in the marketplace and that we tell that story and that we adapt as well I think one criticism I would have is that you know I think we have become quite uh firm in what the what wines are what good wines are what bad wines are and how uh you know winemaking should be and I mean globally as an industry and I think actually um you know if we take wine as an art form that's a bit like food it's but like music you know there might be great food and music from the past but it doesn't mean that you know the young kids the young generation are going to be into the Beatles or you know want to eat melon and palm of ham. I think um you know we have to adapt and you know I think you know orange wines are a really interesting place for that where you know this is something that's relative it's obviously old in wine terms but relatively new in terms of mass market natural wine movement and people really just um pushing the boundaries and and you know asking the questions of you know well why can't we do this and why can't we do that and you know not getting into the gimmick space but trying to do things differently um and keep things as fresh as possible I I think that's so good.

SPEAKER_00 29:02

I want to ask you a different question now. If you were to pour two glasses one for me and one for you one for a little bit fun for both of us what are you pouring right now?

SPEAKER_01 29:12

From my own wines or yeah of course of your own wines let's go with that um so I was gonna pour one for you so we got a brand new wine out that we've just just released the last couple of months um it's uh rosa orange so it's a blend of um skin contact bacchus and we had the Bacchus on skins for 28 days uh if anyone's not aware of Bacchus it's a German uh great variety but it works really really well in the UK um and then we blended that with Pinot Noir, Pinot Mernier, Rose and just a touch of Chardonnay as well. So the idea was we were trying to get the structure and the texture of the orange and then the delicacy and the finesse of the rose. So it's it's something fun is something a little bit different. And I really I hope speaks to um a little bit of that um you know kind of questioning of why and you know what's the relevance and you know and where it should go and I think the feedback we've had from consumers so far has been really positive on the whole um some people it's not for them and you know I think another thing the wine has to get really used to is that it's all subjective you know and there will be other people out there that say I don't like that and that's that's totally fine. That's okay. And for myself I would probably pour our Chardonnay in so um Chardonnay gets a really bad breath in the UK um it's funny I think the for a long time um in the 90s early 2000s we were flooded with kind of Australian and Californian Chardonnays that were heavily oaked and it was a little bit too much for the consumer. So I think um a lot of people have moved away from Chardonnay but we try to make a lighter style so we do 5050 stainless steel and French oak uh and then we use all old oak as well so the idea is we want to get fruit character on the wine as well as the oak flavour so you know you get fruit first I actually get a little break and then you get cedar and vanilla on the finish and I think that style has become much more popular in the UK uh along with completely unalked versions as well. So I think it's it's a really fun wine it's um developed in the bottle a lot over the last two years but it's still really interesting because when I meet um if I'm doing a tasting and I meet Europeans or um you know North Americans or Australians South Africans they all gravitate towards Chardonnay because it's such a great great variety but in the UK despite being such a fake wine nation you know we we still have an ABC movement and anything but Chardonnay movement which is a real shame.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

Yeah that's so interesting I want to ask you one last question. When someone opens a bottle of nine oaks what do you hope they're experiencing besides what's in that class that's a good question.

SPEAKER_01 31:55

I think um I think I kind of take it from two perspectives so firstly um the character of each vintage really um we don't lend our wines away or anything like that we everything is a vintage sparkling and still and we try and reflect that that you know I think when people ask about a wine you know I immediately go back to that time you know whether it was you know a baking hot summer in 2022 a really rainy summer in 23 or you know the wettest coldest summer we've ever had in 2024 I think there's there's always interests between those and I think um it's also really important to say that it's often misunderstood that you know a really good summer makes a great wine and that's sometimes the case but it's it's much more nuanced. You can have kind of good ripening periods even in a really bad summer that makes you know what was on paper a you know a terrible year or a more challenging year and can actually still make some really interesting wines. And then I think the second thing I would say is definitely a lot of our um marketing and comms um you know we do direct you know it's about just uh marketplaces, food and drink festivals getting out and seeing consumers. So I think um that personal connection so I I do think wine and particularly wine going forward will be much more than just the liquid in the bottle you know it it is the you know the engagement that you had the experience that you had um whether you came to the vineyard or you you know you met someone from the vineyard that gave you you know not necessarily not necessarily the story because it's a little bit can be a little bit cliched but you know um that introduced you to that wine you know and um you know gave you the why of you know why we're trying to do what we're doing or why we um you know made those specific decisions within that wine etc.

SPEAKER_00 33:48

Where can people go to find out more about you and what you do?

SPEAKER_01 33:51

So they can find us at our website uh 9oaks.co dot uk um and then we distribute in the UK uh through the Davies Wine Merchants in London and Paige and Sons Wine Merchants in Gent and or they can contact us directly