Notes for An Awesome Life with John Spence

Having A Successful Life on Your Terms

• Notes for An Awesome Life with John Spence • Episode 2

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What if “success” isn’t rich, famous, powerful but values lived daily and relationships that last? In this episode, John and Josh talk about defining a successful life, résumé vs. eulogy virtues, the importance of relationships and a deceptively simple definition of success: when your values and your actions match. 

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About John Spence: John is a globally recognized business thought leader, former owner/CEO of five companies, and advisor/coach to organizations from startups to the Fortune 10. He’s lectured at more than 90 universities and was named by the American Management Association as one of “America’s Top 50 Leaders to Watch.”

About the show: Notes for an Awesome Life with John Spence focuses on personal growth, happiness, clarity, and the everyday habits that compound into an AWESOME life.

Credits: Hosts John Spence and Josh Wilson • Produced by Josh Wilson for Familiar Wilsons Media • Special thanks: Amanda Wilson (writing and production), and Domingo Jimenez (writing and marketing).

Josh Wilson:

This is a Familiar Wilsons Media Production.

Josh Wilson:

John Spence is recognized as one of the foremost thought leaders in the world, a global top 100 business and advisor to companies from startups to the Fortune 10. But it didn't start that way. In college, John hit rock bottom, kicked out of one university and rejected by another. That's when he made a decision to change his attitude and take a systematic approach to building the life he wanted. Through hard work and relentless learning, he went on to build a life full of meaning, joy, and connection. I'm Josh Wilson, and this is Notes for an Awesome Life with John Spence. We invite you to join us in conversation as John shares us the lessons, habits, and tools that he used and that you can use to build an awesome life. Welcome to the second episode of "Note for an Amwesome Life woth John Spence." I'm Josh Wilson.

John Spence:

And I'm John Spence.

Josh Wilson:

And John, today we're going to talk about defining a sucessful life. And in order to do that, I want to start by talking Antonio Pigafetta.

John Spence:

I'm excited. Let's go.

Josh Wilson:

Oh, have you ever heard of Antonio Pigafetta?

John Spence:

No, absolutely not. I have no idea. This is cool.

Josh Wilson:

Well, perhaps you've heard of Ferdinand Magellan. He was the gentleman who completed the first recorded circumnavigation of the globe. And I think by all rights, I mean the gentleman, we're still talking about him today. He has secured his legacy. And one would say that he had a successful life. Antonio Pegafetta was a journal keeper, he was an author, and he gave us a very exhaustive and complete uh journal Magellan's uh voyage. And so one would say that perhaps you could say he he his legacy and he had a successful life. But what about Pigafetta's mom, the woman who raised him, Lucia Pigafetta? Now, I know as a parent that if one of my kids wrote a that would be passed down through history, I would that uh a success also on me as a parent. And so I would say, hey, I'm Lucia Pigafetta. I've had a successful life. So I bet you know what I'm about to ask you. How would you, John Spence, help us define what a succes life is?

John Spence:

Defining what success means to you.

Josh Wilson:

Well, I feel like you just hit the tennis ball right back in my face there.

John Spence:

I did.

Josh Wilson:

Well, can you say more about that?

John Spence:

In the American culture, at least, uh, if you ask what is how do you define success or who's successful, answer is almost always the same. Money, wealth, and power.

Josh Wilson:

Yeah.

John Spence:

Are rich, famous, and powerful. Right. Actually, if you even look at some of the definitions in dictionary, it's a person of you know who's rich, and powerful. Those are nice things. You know, I I have no problem with being rich, famous, and powerful if you want to be, if that matches your values. But if those, if those aren't your values and those aren't the most important things to you, then you know, and give you the example. When I was, I mentioned earlier when I was young, I ran one of the Rockefeller Foundations. I had uh four billionaires on my board, and was worth more than $100 billion. For the fun of it, once uh my CFO and I sat down to try to figure out how much the wealthiest director we had made per hour when he was actually sitting at his desk. When he was in his office at his desk, signing checks, the phone, whatever it might be, what his hourly wage is. And John, I think the hourly, the minimum hourly wage now is around $8 or $12. What is it?

Josh Wilson:

Uh I I know that the the Florida minimum wage is much than the federal, but I'm not quite certain.

John Spence:

Okay, then well, then money's not focused on for you. Uh, because I'm sure you're making just barely above as am I. But we figured that out, and uh I I won't put you on the again because I'd put you on the spot and wipe you out.

Josh Wilson:

No, go ahead. I got my big boy britches on.

John Spence:

What do you think his hourly wage was when he was actually sitting at his desk per hour that he made?

Josh Wilson:

Uh $5,000 per hour. I don't know.

John Spence:

$780,000 an hour.

Josh Wilson:

All right, you're gonna have to give me a quick second with that number.

John Spence:

No, no. Uh almost a million three-quarters of a million dollars hour. Here's what I would tell you. He was one of the most unsuccessful people I've ever met in my life.

Josh Wilson:

Yeah.

John Spence:

He it was just one catastrophe after another. He was on his fourth wife, one of his kids committed I mean, it was just brutal. I mean, we used to joke that he had more problems than we knew, but at least he showed up at them in style, you in a limo or a helicopter or a private jet. Uh now the other side of this is I had people on my board that were very, very, very wealthy, worth hundreds of of dollars. Sweetest people you'd ever meet, kind, thoughtful. You know, I'd go to their house, hey, can I make a for you, John? You know, what do you what can I help you out with? Just great relationship with their kids, uh, genuine, although they were very rich, famous, and powerful. The difference was it wasn't the money or the other, it the values. Were these people living their values? And had they established uh an understanding in life of how they would define success for themselves.

Josh Wilson:

Okay, so that leads me to where your journey started, where you hit rock bottom and you decide to turn things around. But back then, in your early 20s, what did a successful look like to you?

John Spence:

Rich, famous, and powerful.

Josh Wilson:

Of course. Yes. Yes, I walked into that one.

John Spence:

No, it was. I mean, when I I was, you know, inculcated in, I grew up a rich, famous, and powerful father. Uh very rich and famous and powerful, and that was my role model. In all, you know, the prep school I went to, everybody was kind of like that. And that was my understanding of it. Those were the people that I knew, and I liked the they lived and the things they did. But it it wasn't until I got out of college and realized at some level that was within my grasp, but the price I have to pay to achieve that was not worth the effort that I was willing to put into it. Uh, you know, I I told my I want to be a millionaire by the time I'm 30. And when I hit about 25 or six, I realized I could do this if I worked 3,000 hours a week for the next five years.

Josh Wilson:

Yeah.

John Spence:

Uh so I changed my definition back then, uh, in my

Josh Wilson:

Because you saw this bleak image of Ebenezer Scrooge, I I would guess.

John Spence:

It was, you know, it's what this is when I was getting to a lot of the billionaires and folks that I was, you know, flying all over the world in private jets and And I look back and said, some of these people are unhappy. They're just not having fun. Not I've never, you know, some of these I've never seen smile, I've never seen them laugh.

Josh Wilson:

Yeah.

John Spence:

You know, I've worked for them for five years and I've no joy in their life. So it challenged me to step back and say, do I really want to run this fast to achieve something that for some of people has given them, at least to me, no sense of And it's I think when you get to a very, very high level success like these, your greatest fear, or one of your fears, is not being seen as rich, famous, and powerful.

Josh Wilson:

Yeah.

John Spence:

So staying up at number one, uh, or on the fortune, you Forbes 400 or whatever it is, uh wealthiest list became a driving factor in them defining themselves.

Josh Wilson:

Okay, so when you redefine what success meant to you, what shifted in your day-to-day?

John Spence:

I stopped trying to impress people.

Josh Wilson:

Yeah.

John Spence:

It's pretty straightforward. You know, back then I was given to exaggeration uh because I wanted to impress people, or I always picked out the things I was doing. And then when I figured out that my definition of success is when your self-concept and core values are in your daily actions, behaviors. In other words, when you've thought very, very deeply what you truly value in life, and you try to live that every day, and you don't have to wear a mask, and you don't have to pretend and you can be authentic. And if you get at the end of the day and you know, you made a bunch of money on a private aisle in the Bahamas, truly what you value, great. If you have none of those things, but you enjoy your you're living your values, you put your head on your and say that was another good day. Um, I helped people, I did things important. When you get to that level, it doesn't matter what really what other people think about you. You have defined success for yourself and you're definition. If they don't like your definition, that's great. They're entitled to their own definition.

Josh Wilson:

For you, when you stop trying to impress people, that had to feel like a huge weight was lifted.

John Spence:

Oh, yeah. And and it's it's sort of like the idea with lying, you once you tell one lie, you're then you get wrapped up, you can't remember what you said. And I had gotten to that point where, you know, I was at a very, very high level, and I thought that's what was important. And then when I realized, no, not really, I'm not my You know, I when I resigned from the Rockefeller to move on to other things, the day I announced my my phone was ringing off the hook with people uninviting to events and asking me to step down from boards and me from their VIP club. Uh and I realized that as soon as I didn't have power in eyes, I was useless to them. So part of me decided, well, then it doesn't really matter if I have power.

Josh Wilson:

I imagine with that kind of drastic internal change that demeanor changed as well, and that people reacted to

John Spence:

Yeah, and and what happened was a lot of my friends who on the fast track thought I I was a loser. They're like, you gave up. You're not trying hard. I mean, I'm like, no, no, I'm I'm trying hard, but I'm hard by my definition. You know, I'm I I have a different path than you guys do and gals. Uh, and you can walk your path, and I wish you luck and a lot of fun and be very successful. This is the path I've chosen over here. And I am going to do well, but I'm not going to kill trying to add another zero to my income.

Josh Wilson:

Which, by the way, you are and you have been doing well. But what I want people to hear is that this is not the path to becoming the next hot business thought leader. Did I just call you hot?

John Spence:

Thank you. I feel the same about you, Josh, and people watching feel the same way.

Josh Wilson:

Bald men unite. But I think what we're saying is that it just won't matter as much. And that's the point.

John Spence:

And you know, the other thing to it is, and I've heard this saying, you know, other people's opinion of you is is uh no uh business of yours. And when you don't really care what other people think what your what your career is or what you and and let's back to it, you can be rich, famous, and powerful and feel very successful. Um and in my opinion, be very successful. So this doesn't mean you have to live the life of a monk. I mean, I I make a good living, I like what I do, uh, I myself, and uh that doesn't mean that I've given up. I still like nice stuff. I just am not defined by my nice stuff.

Josh Wilson:

Yeah. I was reading something today by journalist David Brooks, and he talks about resume virtues versus eulogy

John Spence:

Oh wow, wow. That's a big, big deal there.

Josh Wilson:

Resume virtues are what you have on LinkedIn, eulogy virtues are what people remember about you when you're gone. And that distinction feels right in line with what we're about here.

John Spence:

There's a thing called the eulogy exercise, where you sit down and you write out three eulogies. One from someone in your family, one from someone in work life, and one some someone from the community, could be faith community, whatever it might be. And that but the job is to sit down and truly write down you deeply, deeply wish they would say at your funeral. And if you take this seriously, you need a couple of of tissue.

Josh Wilson:

Yeah.

John Spence:

I mean, it's a you will cr I cried like crazy, and most that go through it, but then when you finish it, you know what you realize? None of the material stuff matters. No one's gonna at your funeral say, wow, we had the biggest yacht I've ever seen, or although his that fleet of jets, or she had 700 pairs of shoes. It's all about were you a loving, kind person that treated others with respect and that you loved them and they loved you back? That's it. And the neat thing is you could do that right now. You don't need anything else to wake up every day and be a kind, thoughtful, respectful person that people admire enjoy being around.

Josh Wilson:

Yeah, and that's that's a successful, a truly successful So, who are some of the people that have modeled that kind of success for you? Um you're like everyday heroes.

John Spence:

The one at the top of the list was the college professor turned my life around when I was Roger Strickland. Uh, he was my macro and microeconomics professor, then a bunch of other stuff. He rarely taught what was in the book. He would come in and go, what do you guys want to talk today? And then he would tie it back together, go, well, let me, you know, let me talk about elasticity of supply and And here's the demand curve. And he would write it up and we'd talk about it, we'd take tests on it and stuff. But he was much more concerned about helping us become people. And I look back now and I he he retired after 33 years at Santa Fe. I cannot imagine the number of people's lives he's and touched. And myself at the hopefully at the top of the list of that I mean, I here, let me show off now for a second. I went on to become one of the top alumni ever to graduate from Santa Fe and was nominated for the Hall of Fame of community college students in Florida in history. And it is one million percent because of Roger. Uh, he has values, he's honest. We use the word authentic, he's caring, he's loving, kind, he's everything that I want to be as a person. Uh and I look, he's really, you know, we talked about it another episode. My father kicked me out after I failed out. Roger is my dad. He has replaced my father and is an insane role model. Uh now, here's I have a friend who is sort of a mentor of mine in India. Um I'm in my 60s. I think he's only in his 30s, but I learned a lot from And one time we were talking, he said, I have homework you, John. I want you to write a list of all the people who you would truly trust your life with. Who who would you let hold your do not resuscitate? And I sat down and gave it some serious thought, and I came up with a list which was a little bit longer than I had 11 people. Uh, and then he said, Call them all and tell them that. And when I looked at the common thread across all of them was integrity. These are people that always do what they say they will do no matter what. If I asked them to do something and they agreed to it, I it would get done. I would not have any question. So when I look at the people right now that are that I up to, they're people like that that are, again, kind, values-driven, with incredible integrity, that you know going to live by their values, and they're going to do what they say they will do, no matter how challenging and it might be.

Josh Wilson:

Okay, so every episode we have John's homework for us. And so what's our homework?

John Spence:

Make that list. Write down all of the people you can think of that you truly, I mean, this is a tough list, truly trust your life to. I I was talking to my wife about this, and I said, if if of these people, I'm thinking of one particular Carl who's a CEO of a company, I I've been working with 20-something years. We've become extremely close friends, gone far beyond If Carl asked me to go stand out in a train track in front of a train, I would go walk and do it. Because I know he would never do anything in the world that wasn't in my best interest. I'm sure something the train would stop or he'd pull me off or something. But literally, I have full 100% trust in him. And when I looked across the list, that was the sort I saw. So write out the list and then call each person, and or if they're in town, have take, don't take it to meal because everybody's gonna cry, unless you don't mind crying at the table. But uh, there was a lot of crying and there was a lot of I, you know, some of us it was equal, but I've got one guy in in Canada that I only I haven't talked to in six or seven years. But he is a person, young guy compared to me, very I trust him with my life, without question. And he asked me why. And I said, Because Jeff, you always do what you say you do. You are a person of incredible values, honesty, and and I trust you. And it I I think it had a pretty big impact on him because he didn't realize he was that sort of a person. And everybody feels that way about him. He just didn't really understand it himself.

Josh Wilson:

That's a really great gift you gave him.

John Spence:

It has made us much closer. Much we talk uh every month now because he's a he's a cool dude and I like being around him.

Josh Wilson:

And that's our challenge to be someone who would list, right?

John Spence:

I agree completely. That's that would be a good thing to strive for, to have much trust and love and respect uh that people would believe that you would you would carry out their last wishes no what.

Josh Wilson:

Um, John, I work with seniors, as you well know, and in line of work, I attend a lot of memorial services, a lot of celebrations of life. And uh oftentimes during these things, people will get and say all these beautiful things about the departed. And my overwhelming thought that I have is gosh, I wish that all of these great things that people are saying about this person they had said to them while they were alive.

John Spence:

That's a really, really good idea and a beautiful idea. And along the for these people that I'm mentioning, that was our conversation is here's why I appreciate you, here's I love you, this is the impact you've had on my life, um, this is how I look up to you, this is how I want to be you. Uh and it like my friend that I just meant, he was not that. And I think it made an impact on his life, and I hope it that he realizes how important he is and how valuable and um kind he is and generous.

Josh Wilson:

I think that one of the things that's a foundational tenet of my life, which I also feel like informs everything we about in this podcast, and that's the idea of the most things in life are the deep connections that we have with other people. I didn't come up with those words, I heard them somewhere, but that resonates deeply. And what I'm hearing you say is just that. And I and I read something you had written that this idea that the most important thing is that we are here to be human with other humans.

John Spence:

There is a pretty famous Harvard study that had been out for about 85 years. That John F. Kennedy was actually in the study that tracked people from college until their death. And the ones who look back and felt the most successful felt the most fulfilled, the number one driver of close relationships. It wasn't how much they made or how many awards they won. It's how many friends did I, and it didn't mean a hundred friends. It meant do I have deep, strong connection where I can to someone from my heart and not be embarrassed to say meaningful, caring, honest things without fear that the person's gonna feel uncomfortable by you know me telling how much I love them. Uh, you know, for other men that can be hard sometimes for you to, you know, kiss them on the cheek and tell them I you so much. You're amazing. Um, when you can get to the point where everybody, all the the people I listen to, we always end our phone calls with I love you and I miss you.

Josh Wilson:

Yeah, it's definitely not the way I was raised, um, but something that I do with my own kids. I have two sons in their 20s. They, of course, don't live at home anymore, but I don't them without giving them a big hug, and I don't let them without giving them a big hug, a kiss on the cheek, and them that I love them. It's not, again, how I was raised, but that's what the do.

John Spence:

That's not how I was raised, and I that's what Spences I don't have kids. So I hug my dogs and give them a big kiss on the cheek. But you know, if I don't give them one of those melt it's all useless. I'm useless to them.

Josh Wilson:

They know the side their bread is buttered on. Well, we're reaching our time here, so I just want to you listeners out there that success isn't about the history books or the bank account, but it's about what you do other people. It's about the lives that you either loudly or quietly for the better. And there you have it, John. Episode two in the books.

John Spence:

Uh, I thought that was really good. I enjoyed that quite a bit, and I think we had some really good points. And I think that one had more flow and smoothness than first one. We're getting a little bit more used to each other.

Josh Wilson:

Yeah, and pretty soon we'll be at the hug and the kiss on the cheek level. So I'm looking forward to that as well.

John Spence:

I think that's a good idea. Now, you see that I'm being incredibly open and That's the way I the way I operate.

Josh Wilson:

And glad we are for it. Folks, we want to hear from you. Drop us a line, ask us questions by emailing at awesomelifenotes@gmail.com. That's awesomelife notes@gmail.com. To find out more about John Spence, you can go to JohnSpence.com. This has been a Familiar Wilsons Media production. You can find out more about the other podcasts we offer at familiarwilsonsmedia.com. Special thanks for this episode, of course, to Amanda Wilson and Domingo Jimenez. All right, folks, you've got your homework again this Now go out there and live an awesome life.