Why Getting Jesus Right Changes Everything

Five baptisms spark a conversation about public faith, accountability, and why immersion embodies the gospel story. We turn to Hebrews 1 to show that Jesus is better than angels, rituals, and opinions, and we apply that light to forgiveness, truth, and everyday life.

• baptism as public declaration and church accountability
• immersion symbolizing death, burial, and resurrection
• Hebrews 1 asserting Jesus as final Word and Creator
• Scripture shaping belief over media and opinions
• light exposing darkness and clarifying moral truth
• moving focus from culture wars to changed homes
• forgiveness without waiting for an apology
• hope for the hesitant who feel unworthy
• practical takeaway: Jesus plus nothing equals everything

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Transcript

Baptisms And Public Declarations

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hello and welcome back to the Faith Works Podcast, where we believe we have a biblically informed faith that is functional and practical for everyday life. I'm Jonathan Locklear.

SPEAKER_01 0:08

And I'm Tyler Edge.

SPEAKER_02 0:09

We're glad to be here with you today. How are you, buddy?

SPEAKER_01 0:12

I'm well. How are you, bud? Hanging in there?

SPEAKER_02 0:14

Yeah, doing okay. Doing well.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

All right. So I thought a good way to start this out is we had five baptisms, correct, on Sunday. Yeah. Which is a wonderful, wonderful thing to see the church growing, see people getting baptized, coming to the Lord. So I want to talk about baptisms a little bit to start with. So first question I had is simply this What is it that baptism is meant to communicate to both the person who's being baptized and also to those watching that person being baptized? What's the purpose of that?

SPEAKER_02 0:38

Yeah, it's a declaration of their faith. They've been forgiven, they've been redeemed, they've been all the Christian words, they've been saved, they've been converted, they've been born again. Now it is a ceremony that the Lord told us to take part in to declare this new life that we have in Christ. We're commanded to be baptized. And that it's it's not just a faith that we say, it's a faith that we working out. And everyone that Jesus ever called, he called publicly. He it wasn't just a keep it to yourself kind of faith. And one of those ways, one of those ordinances that we demonstrate our faith, you'll see there's a lot of ceremony. We do it publicly in front of the church. There's no such thing as a private baptism. Oh, I've had people ask me for that. And kind of missing the point. Tell the whole church, this is my new faith, this is my new course of life. Not only is Jesus Savior, he is Lord, and I'm following him. And so it resembles his death, burial, and resurrection. It seems strange when Jesus walked up to his cousin John Baptist and said, You should baptize me. And John's thinking, well, you know, in one way this is sort of a a declaration of the remission of sins, and you don't have any sins. And he said, You what you don't understand now, you'll understand later. And uh he says, It's okay, you should baptize me. So right there in the Jordan, where and a lot of people go to Israel just to be baptized in the Jordan. He was standing up vertically in the water, and he would one day die vertically on a cross. He would be laid down horizontally in the water by John, underneath the water. You can't lay someone down through the earth, so we do it through water. And then as Jesus would lay in the grave for three days horizontally, and on the third day, he would rise in newness of life. And it was a foretelling, a foreshadowing of his death, burial, resurrection, and ours. We die to ourselves. We are burying the old life, and we are raised by his power in newness of life. And that really is what baptism, the whole ceremony. There's quite a lot of hoopla that goes along with it, with good reason. It's a declaration of who we belong to. I tell people that it's also sort of like a wedding ring. I wear a wedding ring, it declares something about my relationship with my wife. It doesn't make me married. When I take it off, it doesn't make me unmarried. It's simply a declaration. And so, anyways, that's a beautiful thing, those five individuals did Sunday.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

I've always thought as well when it comes to a baptism and part of it being public. We also had the baby dedication, which is wonderful. Part of that is you're telling all the people in the church, hey, this is our baby, and we're devoting ourselves to raising him up in the fear and the admonition of the Lord,

Accountability And Church Membership

SPEAKER_01 3:16

right? But also part of it is you have all these people gather up and coming up to say, we want your help, right? We want you to encourage us, we want you to be there with us. I've always thought of baptism to be in the same vein of that, right? Where you're saying, I'm declaring that I love the Lord, but all of you who are seeing you're my church, you're my people, I expect you to help and to encourage and to hold me accountable. Is there some truth to that as well?

SPEAKER_02 3:35

Absolutely. It's they're being part of the church family. In fact, we require it. We ask people to be baptized when they join the church. I want to be a church member. And then I say, fantastic. Are you saved? Are you satisfied with your salvation? Tell me about your conversion experience. And then I'll say, Are you have you been have you been baptized? Have you declared your faith? Or is this a faith that you've kept private to yourself? Two of the people that got baptized Sunday were baptized as infants in other denominations, Lutheran, Catholic, and uh which is fine. But they were infants and they wanted to make that choice on their own.

SPEAKER_03 4:10

Right.

SPEAKER_02 4:10

And so I always offer that people when they come for church membership. Would you like to be rebaptized? We don't require that. If you say I was baptized as a Presbyterian as a child, we wouldn't make you be re-baptized, but we always do offer that because we want you to, like I said, joining in the church. And there's that accountability, there's that declaration. We also offer that for some people who have backslidden, have had some relationship with Christ in their youth, and then they've wandered away, walked away, and now they've come home, so to speak, and they say, I'd like to be re-baptized. And so we're glad to do that and praise God for the grace and the mercy that He offers us. And it's great to embrace that and to celebrate it.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

For us as the observers as well, I mean, as we're watching it, we're not the ones being baptized, but we should be seeing that and reminding ourselves, okay, those are somebody that I want to encourage, those is somebody I want to love, I want to make sure they're doing well, right? Because I mean, we do believe that a public declaration of wanting to follow Christ, I mean, things are going to be difficult, right? You have whatever it is, life is gonna show up, and maybe the devil or or somebody puts a target on you, right? In that instance. It's the person up there saying, Look, guys, I'm being saved, and I want your help. And we should look at that and say, and I want to help these people, I want to encourage them and guide them and love them and bless your life.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

You know, and so I always say the church is a hospital for hurting people, for sick people. It's a family, it's an army. We're trying to encourage and bless, especially those new to the faith. That's the beautiful part of demonstrating your faith publicly. I've encourage people that get saved to testify, tell somebody, share it, stand up in church and share it, either one-on-one, tell what God has done for you, or before the congregation, tell this new life that you have found in Christ. There's something really important about declaring it.

SPEAKER_01 5:55

Yeah. Yeah, I agree. And it is a beautiful thing, right? When we all come together. And as you said, there's that fellowship aspect of being a Christian. And I know that it's not something that I can deal with on my own. I need my brothers, right? I need my sisters to encourage me to help me and to guide me. And so, yeah, that baptism I think is a public declaration of that I love the Lord, but also help me out here a little bit. So that's kind of what I see when I'm seeing those baptisms.

Why Immersion Symbolism Matters

SPEAKER_02 6:16

Absolutely, it's an all-in kind of thing. We're trying to help people to embrace Christ fully. That's also part of the beauty of immersion baptism. There are those that sprinkle. We don't find that anywhere in the scriptures where someone, John Baptist, the Apostle Paul, Jesus, no one is sprinkling anyone. We are plunging ourselves in. We are going all the way in.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

And nothing's missed.

SPEAKER_02 6:38

And it's not something that we did in a side room privately. It's publicly before the whole church.

SPEAKER_01 6:43

Absolutely.

Hebrews 1: Jesus Is Better

SPEAKER_01 6:44

On Sunday, you spoke on Hebrews 1. That was the message that you preached. And there were several things about it that really stuck out to me. Do you want to just kind of give us a synopsis? What did you preach about on Hebrews? What was the motivation there?

SPEAKER_02 6:54

Hebrews is a totally unique book in the scriptures, and it's one of the most marvelous books in all of the Bible. Some people struggle with it because of a lack of authorship, you know, being specified a date or even recipients. It's simply entitled Hebrews. It is written to, you know, Hebraic people, and these are those coming to Christ from Judaism in the Hebrew tradition, and also those that are coming to Christ out of the pagan tradition. The author of Hebrews, we, you know, we're not guaranteed to know. The only thing I'm confident in is it's not the Apostle Paul. Some people say, well, we think it's the Apostle Paul. It doesn't sound like him, doesn't look like him, uh, doesn't look like anything that he does. We know that it was a man. There is a declaration of authorship in chapter 11 and 12, and masculine pronouns are used. So it wasn't a woman, it could be the Apollos, who was a contemporary preacher of the Apostle Paul, could have been Timothy, could have been Barnabas, Silas. You know, there's there's kind of a longer list. However, it doesn't matter. The author of all the books of the Bible is God. Exactly. And whoever the earthly author is was inspired by God clearly to commend Christ. And so the whole book, to summarize it, is that Jesus is better. Jesus is better than the law, he's better than Moses, he's better than angels, he's better than the Old Testament priests, he's better than Abraham, he's better than Melchizedek. He's on and on. Christ is better. And it's an encouragement to stay with Christ. Those that are coming out of the Hebrew tradition of Judaism, don't go from Christ back into Judaism. Also, don't go from Christianity, new Christians, back into pagan religions. And so Hebrews is Jesus is better. And so Sunday we just spoke about that Jesus is the word from God. He is the message from God. He's a better messenger. God used all sorts of messengers and methods of messaging throughout the Old Testament. However, Jesus is the final word. The Jews, you know, are very big into angels, into angelic studies, and he puts correctly in their right place what angels are. Angels are servants of God. Angels are even given watch care over believers for protection. However, they do not atone for sins. They are never called sons of God. They are never given authority over all things. They are not the creators of anything. Jesus is the creator of everything. And it simply says that God various times, in various ways, spoke to us by the prophets, but now he has given to us his own son, Jesus, who he has appointed heir over all things, also by whom Jesus He made the worlds. And so Christ is maker, he is owner, he is better. He is better.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

Yeah, you you said as a direct quote from Sunday, you said, Who is Jesus, Church? Let me tell you this. You can get everything else wrong, but if you get Jesus right, that's what's going to matter the most. You're speaking, right, of if we have the good idea of who it is that Jesus is. And you're speaking specifically like what you just said, because they had all these Old Testament, these rituals and these things that they would do. Sure. And then Jesus showed up and it said, This is now what matters to you. Those things were valid in the Old Testament. They were needful, they were commanded by God. Right. But then we're given Christ and it says, This is what matters to you.

SPEAKER_02 10:30

Yeah. Jesus plus nothing equals everything. And I and I really mean that. If you get some other things wrong, like we can have a discussion about baptism.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

Sure, absolutely. Right?

SPEAKER_02 10:39

Infant baptism, even, which I would disagree with. Sprinkling versus immersion baptism, communion, transubstantiation. We would have some differences of theological opinion and interpretation from our Lutheran brothers and sisters, even the Catholics that we know and love. And that's fine. Those are secondary issues. Jesus is the one thing we have to agree on. He is virgin born, he is absolutely perfection and sinless, 100% human. And in that, he puts down nothing of his deity, also 100% God. And this is the only way sins can be forgiven. And that's why we have to get Jesus right.

SPEAKER_01 11:17

Yeah. You see it a lot nowadays. And I mean, you've seen it since Adam and Eve, but you see people having this idea of who Jesus is, but they have the incorrect one. Yes, I follow Jesus, but he's kind of my version of Jesus. This was another thing you said. This is probably my favorite thing. People say, I want a new word, a new revelation from God. And it's really those that want a new revelation. It's because they're not interested in obeying the old revelation. That's exactly right. And you see that a lot, don't you? Or people will say, Well, I love Jesus and I follow him. And it's, well, if you love me, then do what I've commanded you, right? Right. But we take him and we say, Well, I think my Jesus would have been a bit more like this, right? Or I think Jesus would have done this. Right. And you have that nowadays. You have it in so many different things. Not, I don't want to get into specifics here, but you have political movements, you have personal ideologies and all these things that it's people taking Jesus and they're trying to shove him into their box to justify what they're doing. Where do we get who Jesus is? We get it from scripture.

SPEAKER_02 12:06

And from scripture alone, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

That's exactly right. My personal opinions of Jesus, they don't matter. It's it's what I'm told in scripture. That's what I live my life with.

SPEAKER_02 12:14

That's why we have to form all of our opinions and all of our interpretation

Scripture Over Opinion And Media

SPEAKER_02 12:18

from the Bible. And we have to dig in. Yes. We don't get it from the chosen series. We don't get it from the movie Ben Hur. I had a guy the other day tell me that Moses and Jesus were best friends growing up. And he was so convinced. I'm going, what are you talking about? He goes, Well, I saw it in the movie. I said, What movie? He goes, Ben Her. And I go, My goodness, read your Bible. No, we got this is not only from Christ. In fact, now we're now he's he's straight on it now, but he was like, Really? I'm like, yes, Ben Her is not the Bible. Yeah. It's it was just a movie from the 70s.

SPEAKER_01 12:51

And that's part of the danger of it, though. I mean, just media in general, right? We assume that, okay, there's been money put into this and thought put into it. It must be true. People wouldn't lie to us. Boy are we wrong. Go to your Bible and that alone, right? Sure. And that's the beauty of like on a Sunday, too, especially at this church and all the great churches out there that believe the Bible. We get up there, we're not giving our opinions, right? We're what does scripture say? That's what we're giving, right? Our opinions have very little value when it comes to eternity, when it comes to biblical things. And our opinions that we do share are formed completely because of scripture. And we got to make sure that we're doing that.

SPEAKER_02 13:22

I've even been quoted as saying we can throw everything that's not in the Bible out. Yeah, totally agree. And let's just be biblical. And this is the truth. You don't want me making up stuff. I'm fallible. And I'm not here to, well, here's what I think is best. Eve did that in the garden, right? The snake shows up and he says, Hey, I understand you're not supposed to eat this. She goes, We're not supposed to eat it. We're not even supposed to touch it. Except God didn't say that last part.

SPEAKER_03 13:50

Right.

SPEAKER_02 13:50

So she's going beyond trying to say, Well, this is a safeguard. No, just do what God says. Right. No, smell it, look at it, touch it. Have nothing to do with it. Only do what God says. Don't go, you're not better than him. When we add to or when we take away. And so this is how we have to resolve ourselves to be biblical. Yeah. A biblical worldview is essential.

SPEAKER_01 14:12

Yeah. So moving on a little bit here, still saying it within the text, but you talked about how we live in a dark world, right? You talked about this idea of darkness and light and Christ being the light and this world being dark. And you said it's discouraging how dark the world is. And it is. This is something that's really quite interesting because I think you can find both believers and even non-believers for different reasons, but seeing how dark the world is in some way or another. They can look at it and say, there's something wrong here. Now they might have the wrong idea of what it is, right? It might be that somebody they didn't like, but we can all look at the world and say, there's something wrong here. We maybe we don't know what it is.

SPEAKER_02 14:45

That's the only thing everyone agrees on. Yeah. The world's broken.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

There's something wrong.

SPEAKER_02 14:48

No one goes, it's just the way it should be.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

It's perfect. So we look at this though, and we can get discouraged when we look at the world. But you talked about this light that shines through the darkness, and it's Jesus, right? You spoke on that.

SPEAKER_02 14:58

We got it from that verse three. Who being the brightness of his glory, the express image of his person. So just in the revelation of who he is, he brings light into the world. And that is really a characteristic of who he is. John would say it in first John. This then is the message that we have heard from him and declare unto you God is light. God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him and still we walk in the darkness, we lie and we don't have the truth. So part of knowing God is doing it's doing what is, well, have been illuminated. Right, correct. Revealed to us. That's what the Bible does. It shows us how to live.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

Yeah. So speaking on that, what does that look like to me? We say that whether Jesus is a light to this dark world. Now, how does that light work in me personally? What are the things that if I'm following Jesus or I'm looking to him, what is the light revealing in my life? What does that usually look like for me? What what what's there some examples?

SPEAKER_02 15:59

Well, it shows us everything that's there, whether you want to see it or not. Right? Turn the lights on in a messy room. Uncomfortable stuff. It's just a messy room. And this is why the cockroaches scramble. They don't like the light. Yeah. And a lot of people don't like the light. When you speak truth in our culture, there's gonna be somebody who's upset with it. And the Bible says it's because men love darkness rather than light. That's our default born sinful position. We love ourselves, we love wrong or indifferent, but you're wrong. I still like it. When Jesus comes, it illuminates truth from error from wrong, right? Black from white, good from bad. And I think that's what Christians are the tension in the world. We are the ones who are saying there is such a thing as and such a thing as wrong. And we have, by God's help, been shown that this is not a cultural thing. Right. It's not like murder in America. We all have agreed that's bad. But murder in, say, Afghanistan for someone who leaves the Islamic faith. Right. Well, that's culturally okay. And we're going, no. Jesus is the light who has shown us thou shalt not murder. Therefore, therefore, we do not kill. And it is wrong to murder. Yes. It is wrong to murder. Right. Not just geographically, not just because everyone

Light Exposes Darkness And Truth

SPEAKER_02 17:18

agrees on it, but because the light of God has shown the truth. Right. Regardless of where you are, who you are, for what reason. Murder is wrong.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

Yeah. We live in a world that likes to put morality on a scale, right? As you just said. Slide it back and forth. Where's it taking place and who's doing it? And who's the victim here and who's the perpetrator? And what about this? And and we can take stances as Christians. We can say, hey, we're not going to discuss what month it's okay to murder a child. We're going to boldly proclaim that it's wrong at all points, right? Don't kill a child. It's not on a scale. That's right. And you can apply that to other things, but that infuriates people for us to take that high position and say, hey, this is just wrong. They go, well, what do you you think you know everything? No, I think I know nothing, just like you, but I think I know the one who does know it, right? That's exactly right.

SPEAKER_02 18:01

Well, and I also can't turn our lights back off.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

Yeah. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 18:04

Once the lights have been turned on, I can't unknow it. Yeah. That baby heartbeating at six weeks is a baby heartbeating. I can't go, well, it sure is inconvenient. Therefore, I can't get there. I can't go back into that darkness. So now I'm well, now I'm just stuck with this truth. Yeah. And I have to say it. I have to say it or else I have to lie to myself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:27

And like you said, it's infuriating to people too. When we point that light, right? It's infuriating because somewhere deep down, they can see it and they go, no, it is wrong, right? And we're pointing that. They can lie to themselves to a certain degree. But once they're approached about it, right, they start to go, oh no, I do realize that that's wrong.

SPEAKER_02 18:42

But I can't do that. And this is our job, gently, kindly, tenderly, lovingly, to speak truth. Yes. Speak light. And to do it in a way that's loving. Absolutely. But to not shirk away from doing it. Absolutely. And as the light begins to shine, hearts are changed, eyes are open. And that's the work of God. That's the mystery of his ministry. I call no one, I change no one, I save no one. But we simply speak the truth of God's word. And that's really the point of getting Jesus correct out of the book of Hebrews. Because if you get Jesus right, well, he'll turn the lights on, and you'll see your sinfulness. You'll see his righteousness next to your sinfulness. And then we are left with the obligation to repent and to change.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

Yeah, absolutely. We can't sacrifice morals for people's feelings, right? I mean, that's something that we have to be cautious of when it comes to being a Christian. You think of Jesus, and we are to be loving, we are to be kind, we are to be attentive to these people.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

But if Jesus had come and wasn't willing to offend anybody, then we'd all go to hell. There'd be no story here. Because he did. He offended a lot of people, not for the sake of offending people, but because he pointed truth. He pointed light right on the right.

SPEAKER_02 19:48

And it just shows you the value of truth. If truth is valuable, it's worth something. And so we know that truth is absolute. There is such a thing as truth and right and wrong. Yes. And therefore we're not willing to compromise on it. It's super valuable. And in order to get to the truth, we have to dig. And in digging, there will be some offense. It's offensive. And that's okay. Part of that is people have not done the thinking. Critical thinking is a skill that a lot of people lack and are not willing to because they're not used to it. They're just told what to think. That's right. In school, in the public school system, you're told what to think and not how to think. Yes. And so when we are going, let's talk about this. Let's talk about this versus this. And I postulate that this is right and this is wrong and this is better than this.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

Let's find the truth. Yeah. Let's turn the lights on. And that light is Jesus. And we lay everything up against him. Everything is compared to him. I'm not the standard. He's the standard.

SPEAKER_01 20:48

Yeah. There's a beautiful, almost an irony there, perhaps not, but where you'll see somebody listening to this and they go, Oh, that's ironic. The the pastor saying, you know, that we need to, we don't just listen to what we're told, right? Because people have this idea that it's the pastor steps up there, they say something, it's law. The reality of the matter, at a good church like this church, you have a hundred to two hundred to three hundred people who are reading every single thing you're saying and are checking you on that. There's so much thought that is done there. We don't want you to tell us what to think. We want you to help us and to guide us, but we're looking at every word that's being said, right? That's that critical thinking. That's right. And it's not as though that's absent in a church, at least in a good church, right? We don't just believe you because we say it, we believe you because you're speaking God's word, right?

SPEAKER_02 21:28

Generally, my first words at the pulpit are take your Bible. If you have your copy of the scriptures, turn to this. I want to show you what I have found, the applications that I'm going to draw from it. Yes. And I'm not making this stuff up. We want it to be the light of God's word in our lives and not just some man made homily, some, you know, some feel good thing. No, why? Because

From Culture Wars To Changed Lives

SPEAKER_02 21:52

God said it. Yeah. Not because John said it. I don't recommend listening to me.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:58

But listening to the word of God. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

Absolutely. That's been a funny thing recently in the last several days for me as I've been working on certain things with the church and like the graphics and things like that that we put out. And I've been seeing looking at a lot of other churches. And it's something that drives me crazy is a lot of them when they're doing it, it's always the pastor. And he's just stood in the middle of a stage, hands empty, you know, there's a pulpit, maybe there's like a picture in the background. And I'm looking at him going, where's your Bible at? Like what you look like you're giving a motivational speech. Where is your Bible? And he gets up there and he's just talking about his opinions and stuff the whole time. If I was at that church, I'd say, I need you to give me a chapter and a verse here so I can know that what you're saying is true. I'm not just gonna take your word for it. I love you. I care, I can't come for the word, right? And so that that's just a funny we're talking about that made me think of it. That would drive me crazy. Sure. I want you to tell me, I want you to show me in the Bible what backs up.

SPEAKER_02 22:46

Also, can I tell you that's a weight that I'm not able to bear? Yeah. I can't tell you how to live. Sure. I can't tell you how to. Gosh, who would be so deluded in their thinking to say, Oh, okay, sit down and listen to me. No, I oh gosh, I can't even that crushes me. Right. But I gladly will say, thus saith the word of the Lord.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Absolutely. Yeah. So talking about all that, and I mean the the shining of light and all that kind of stuff, I just think it's such a wonderful symbolism, right? Amen. But just that living in a dark world. And and I think we need to be cautious though, because we do, we look out into the dark world that we live in, but we also need to be careful as Christians that we don't just sit back and remove ourselves from it and go, oh, that's such a dark world, right? And there's so much evil out there. We need to be introspective as well. And we need to say, there's darkness, right, in my life. There's darkness that I allow. There's things that I'm still hiding. Father, can you reveal those to me? And so as a Christian, what should I be doing? Is that the prayer I should be praying? Father, can you you know bring light to me? There, there's things I'm hiding, there's darkness in me. I want to know about it. So I've got to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 23:50

Of course, it starts at home. It starts with the individual, God doing his work in us. So it's like we want the world to change. But I'd like the world, I'd like Jesus to change you first. First. And when the lights do come on, and then my behavior follows, and I begin to repent and change from what was incorrect to now what is correct. Following the leading of the Holy Spirit, empowered by the Spirit of God, well, then that's what Jesus says is the church. You are the light of the world. A city that is set upon a hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle and put it like under a basket or a bowl. That doesn't make any sense. Right. Instead, you put it up on a mantle, on a stick, on a pedestal, that it can give light to all that are there in the house. And there's just something incredibly valuable about a Christian or a church that is simply being a Christian church.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 24:38

It is light that cannot be hid. And it's going to be seen. Just the power of a changed life, it can be rather contagious, especially from those who are living in darkness and they see something. There's something different. Something is unusual. Something is it's a faith that works. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

That's good. There's so much to that that's so relatable to me. And it's something that I've been convicted of. And this was a couple years ago. But I was very like heavily politically interested and motivated. And I still am. I still pay attention to what's going on and all these things. But I was of the mindset, well, we're a church and we're Christians and we got to change the world. And there isn't anything wrong with that, but the conviction that I have and what I see now on Facebook and stuff, of all these Christians who love the Lord and they're so driven and so so motivated by and so upset about all things political. For me, several years ago, I had to stop and I had to look at myself and say, hey, but what about your family though? How's your wife doing? How are your children doing? How are your brothers in your church doing? How's your pastor doing? And I started to realize, okay, Lord, perhaps these are the things I need to be focusing on and putting my time into. There's very little chances that I'm going to change what happens in the White House, right? There's a lot of chance that I can change the things that are happening in my own household. Correct. So there's things we need to figure out our motivations and our priorities. And as I said, I wouldn't even for a second say, well, Christians shouldn't care at all about what's going on in the world. We should. Yeah. But the only way we're going to make change is by being invested in our households and in our churches and in the families in our churches and in our community. That's what's going to make the change.

SPEAKER_02 26:10

But it starts in our own hearts. Right. Yes, it does. It starts at home. You know, to quote who I would consider the great Jordan Peterson. God bless him. He's been sick lately. I've been praying for him. People say, Well, I want to change the world, and we've got to do something about climate change and about poverty and about, you know, this political, this and that. And he would say, Go clean your room first.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

Make your bed. Make your bed.

SPEAKER_02 26:30

And that's that's brilliant. Yes. You can't get any closer to home than that.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:34

Mind yourself before you mind other people.

SPEAKER_01 26:37

So let's kind of move on here a little bit. So we started just last week allowing people to ask us questions. Okay.

Forgiveness When No Apology Comes

SPEAKER_01 26:43

They can kind of send in questions. So we have one here from Tom, Tom Phillips, and I'll just play it. We can listen to it and then let's see what kind of help we can offer.

SPEAKER_00 26:52

Hi. I have a question on forgiveness. What does forgiveness look like when someone refuses to apologize or change?

SPEAKER_02 27:00

That's a great question. And I'll tell you what, that's something we all deal with. Yes, it is. We've all been there. Everyone can understand where that question is coming from. And it's so everyone's favorite topic until it's our turn to forgive it. It's very difficult when it's our turn to do it. Yes, we want it. But what do we do when those who need it don't deserve it? And in this case, refuse to acknowledge their part, their wrong, they refuse to apologize. I'll tell you what, uh biblically, and we should be informed biblically, the Bible doesn't say wait around for an apology. It's probably never coming. In a lot of ways, it's not coming. And even if it does, if I have offended you, right, it's gonna be some half-hearted. It's not gonna do it for you. Jesus said to his disciples, they said in a very similar way, Lord, how often or how many times should I forgive my brother? And he gives a math equation. He goes, When it's 70 times seven, these are uneducated men. Like he was going, okay, you can't do the math anyways. Just do it a lot. Because it's not a number. Exactly. Keep forgiving, keep forgiving. But boy, that's hard, especially when they won't acknowledge it. Can I say, and I would say to Tom and to everyone, it's not about them, anyways.

SPEAKER_03 28:19

Amen.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

It's not about them. I would like for them to apologize. Ideally, they would be it'd be great if they would come to themselves and go, Oh my gosh, what have I done? And they might. They might. They probably won't. But I think there should be some turning loose.

SPEAKER_03 28:34

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 28:35

Not that what they did is excusable. No. But if we sit here and do not forgive, I tell you what, we run a few dangers, Jesus said. If you do not forgive, neither will your father in heaven forgive you. That's a scary verse of scripture. Okay, so should we? I would think that Jesus would say we should.

SPEAKER_03 28:53

Right.

SPEAKER_02 28:54

People say, Well, how can we? I would also say, number two, that's going to have to be a work of the Holy Spirit. That's going to be something that God does in our hearts. In fact, I have heard it said that you're never more like Christ than when you forgive. It's something that only God can do. I have talked to people who have been molested, beaten, or have watched someone mistreat their loved ones. And I mean the anger, the rage, the hatred is so strong. And somehow, only by the power of God, they've come to some measure of release where they can. I have seen it, Tyler, where people who have been so offended, so hurt, have come to want good for the offender. And I just think that's Jesus. That's Jesus in you. How can you where you can pray and and not say, you know, like the precatory psalms, get them, Lord, get 'em, judge them. Because by the way, God will. There's nothing that has offended you that God has not seen. He's more righteous than you are, he's more offended than you are, and he will. He will no one's getting away with anything.

SPEAKER_03 30:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

But when we can come to the place where you say, God, do good for them. Bless them. It's the most freeing thing you'll ever do. Right. It's not easy to get there. It's a supernatural thing. But I do know from personal experience. Hating and holding a grudge against someone, it is like taking a poison pill and hoping that they die. Yep. I I hate them. They're just the worst. It's like, yeah, you're probably not wrong, but they're not affected by that at all.

SPEAKER_01 30:35

They're at home sleeping.

SPEAKER_02 30:36

Exactly. They're living rent-free in your mind. But when we can come, and I think this is a good definition of forgiveness, when we can come to the place of saying, of feeling bad for them, of having pity on them. Oh, that like, by the way, everyone's the way they are for a reason. Something happened to them, dude. Yes. Can we come at some point and say, I feel bad for this person? I need to pray for this person. And if God gives me an opportunity, I want to do something good for this person. That's forgiveness. And it's the most freeing thing you'll ever do. Yeah. The most freeing thing you'll ever do. The prison doors will be open, but you're the one that's coming out.

SPEAKER_01 31:15

Yeah, absolutely. Amen. It's tough, right? It's tough to kind of step back, especially when you're the one involved in it, to step back and be able to look at the whole picture, right? Because you're the one that's been wronged in this circumstance, right? Yeah. And so you want to, as you said, you want to be angry, you want to be bitter, but our mindset as Christians must be okay, and how can I deal with this in a way that is honoring and edifying to my Lord? Right. How can I deal with this in a way that's not going to allow it to become an issue between myself and Christ, right? It's not going to put a wedge there or a hindrance. Right.

SPEAKER_02 31:45

By the way, he's not fooled. You can give in the offering plate, you can sing in the church. Right. You can shake hands. You can talk to you. You can open your Bible at home. And it's like, he's looking at you going, but I know you hate him. You haven't forgiven him. I know you hate him. Oh Lord, I'm okay. It's like he's not fooled. He wants to set you free, but it's going to have to be when we look with compassion on these people. Yeah. And they're knuckleheads, man. They're idiots. Absolutely. And they don't deserve forgiveness. They've wronged you. But it's simply putting it in God's hands. Yes. And being able to walk away and say, Lord, you can handle it. I cannot. One of the Bible verses I don't like the most. Vengeance is mine, says the Lord. I'm like, come on. I'm like, but can it be mine a little bit? That's a great verse. Yes. Can we revisit this? Yes. It's better in his hands. Yes, it is. It's better in his hands.

SPEAKER_01 32:35

Yeah. Amen. Yeah, that's good. So moving on here or kind of wrapping things up here a little bit on that note. What would you say to someone? And I just think this is such a good open question because you're you spoke about the light and the darkness, and perhaps to somebody who who isn't a believer, who who doesn't know the Lord, but recognizes the darkness in the world and the disparity and how scary of a thing it is, or even in their own life, perhaps, what would you say to someone who feels unworthy? They feel confused or they feel hesitant to come to Christ to seek that light. What would you encourage them with?

SPEAKER_02 33:08

Well, I would say if you recognize any of what you just

Hope For The Hesitant And Unworthy

SPEAKER_02 33:11

said, God is at work in your life. And we don't choose God. We are in darkness. He is the one that pursues us. And so if you sense this inclination in your life, it is the initiating grace of God in your life. This is a wonderful place for you to be right now. And I would encourage you to embrace it. And I would encourage you to pray a simple prayer. You say, I never prayed before. I don't know what that was sound like. I would encourage you to talk to God that you cannot see, like a friend in the room, and you should be honest, who you have never been with anybody else, and you should ask him to reveal himself to you. Because you do get it. You get it. The world's dark. You see it. And the only reason that you realize that is because some of the light of God's initiating grace has shined upon you. And this is a most marvelous thing. And I would encourage the person to seize upon this and to really thank God for it. And you can do that. You can simply ask God to show you Himself. Yes. He's that kind of God. He's a knowable God. Let me go back to the very beginning, Hebrews chapter 1. God who at sundry times and in diverse manners spoke to us by the prophets, but now he has spoken to us by his son Jesus Christ. Okay, let's not overlook the fact that God speaks. God to us, who are we? Who are you? Let me just say, you feel unworthy? You are. Amen. So am I.

SPEAKER_03 34:34

Amen.

SPEAKER_02 34:35

So is every other person on the earth. God is worthy. We're not worthy. But in his grace, he has reached his hand down. He has given us his son. He has spoken to us by his spirit. And we should say, Yes, Lord, I sense you. I feel you. Amen. I see the darkness in contrast to the light. And I want to know you more. And I'm telling you, he's a kind of God that will reveal himself and he'll delight in showing you himself.

SPEAKER_01 35:03

We always talk about that. I feel like that's the most common reason that people are hesitant to come to God. It's that word right there, that unworthy, right? I'm not worthy of it. He's perfect and he's loving and he's kind and I'm so unworthy. And I love what you said. It's what I was gonna say, right? I say I'm not unworthy, and that's correct. Yes, amen, right? That's true, right? Thankfully, I didn't have to buy my way into heaven. No one said something that was done for me. We're not worthy of it. We never will be. Yes. I think of that John 3.16, right? The verse that everybody knows, right? God so loved the world, gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

SPEAKER_02 35:34

So if you're a whosoever, I am a whosoever.

SPEAKER_01 35:36

Yeah, me too, but we don't cut, we don't complicate it. We don't need to be confused about it. He makes it simple, doesn't he? That's the beautiful thing about it, too. It's all these hoops we have to jump through.

SPEAKER_02 35:44

Sure. Well, here's the thing. My kids are unworthy too. Amen. They they do nothing for me. I do everything for them because they're mine. Yes. God made you. Amen. And you're his to some degree. Amen. And so there's no wor people that uh will try to earn God's favor. It's a joke. Everyone is unworthy. The only way we come to him is by a free gift of grace.

SPEAKER_01 36:06

Amen. Amen. So give me one in closing here, and then I'll be close in prayer afterwards.

Living Jesus Plus Nothing

SPEAKER_01 36:11

Give us one practical application of what you said in Hebrews 1 that a way that I can respond to this, the darkness and the light and Christ being the only way and nothing else, right? What's a practical application that I as a Christian can apply this week with your message?

SPEAKER_02 36:26

Well, you've got to have it settled in your heart that Jesus is better, that he's better. Amen. It's not Jesus plus this or Jesus plus that. No, Jesus plus nothing equals everything. And I think that's where we need to start is settling that in our own. It's not him plus my talents, him plus my abilities, him plus my willingness, him plus my worthiness. Him plus my unworthiness. Jesus is all we need. Jesus is all we need.

SPEAKER_01 36:55

There's a level of humility, isn't there? Isn't humility required there for me to say, Jesus, all of you and none of me? That's right. Take me away from it, right? I just want what you want. That's a tough thing to do as a Christian, as a human being.

SPEAKER_02 37:06

That's all of us. I have confided in you before, and I'll just air it to the world now. Nervousness over preaching or insecurity in some way. To which you have responded, John, it's not about you anyways. And God doesn't need you. Amen. Oh, thank you. Yeah, it really is. Yes, it's not discouraging. It's really helpful to know that it's Jesus plus nothing. I'm just his instrument, his tool, in the same way that all of us are the same way.

SPEAKER_01 37:31

In the same way of salvation. Well, I'm not good enough. Well, don't worry about it. It's not relying on you. You bring nothing to the table.

SPEAKER_02 37:36

You've provided nothing that is necessary for your salvation. All of Christ. Only Christ.

unknown 37:41

Amen.

SPEAKER_01 37:42

That's beautiful. Buddy, would you please close us in prayer?

SPEAKER_02 37:45

Father, we are honored to be in your presence. We are honored to wear your name. And we thank you, Father, for those listening, those that are believers and those who are yet undecided, those that have considered but never believed, never committed, never repented. Father, I thank you that you are working in our lives and drawing us to yourself. We pray, Lord, that we would be able to subtract all the other stuff, that nothing remain except Christ. Only of Christ, only of Jesus. All that is necessary, all that is needed is Jesus. So Father, would you reveal us, would you reveal yourself to us this week? Show us yourself, show us the beauty of who you are. And Lord, I pray for myself and for those listening that you would be the all-satisfying joy and pleasure that our hearts long for, that we would find our delight in you and in nothing else. We ask this in the high and holy name of our precious Savior Jesus. Amen.