The Countercultural Joy Of Raising Rugrats God’s Way

Motherhood has a way of stripping off the filters and showing what we actually believe about God. When the nights are broken, the schedule is impossible, and the kids are acting like little “knuckleheads,” do we really trust that the Lord is patient, present, and good, or do we default to guilt and panic? Jonathan and Tyler sit down with their wives, Stephanie Locklear and Esther Edge, for a Mother’s Day conversation that gets practical fast and stays anchored in Scripture.

We talk about Hannah in 1 Samuel and what her prayers teach us about sacrifice, surrender, and God’s faithfulness across long seasons. Stephanie and Esther share what motherhood has taught them about unconditional love, grace, and the surprising ways “spiritual worship” can look like serving in the nursery, missing parts of corporate worship, and choosing obedience when it would be easier to check out. We also explore why biblical motherhood and modern cultural narratives often clash, and why living God’s design can bring deeper fulfillment, even when it is hard.

A major theme is leadership in the home, especially the idea that mothers help set the spiritual temperature like a thermostat, not just react like a thermometer. We get honest about overwhelm and inadequacy, how to push back against the accuser’s voice, and why Scripture, prayer, and small, focused growth matter more than perfection. We close with what the local church can do to support mothers, including community care, meaningful encouragement, and Titus 2 mentoring.

If this strengthened you, share it with a mom who needs steady hope today, and subscribe so you don’t miss the next conversation. What part of motherhood has most shaped the way you see God?

Transcript

Mother’s Day Focus And Guests

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Hi, and welcome back to the Faith Works podcast, where we believe we have a biblically informed faith that works every day for everyday believers like you and I. I am one of your hosts, Jonathan Locklear. And I'm the other one, Tyler Edge. And today we've got a very special edition as we celebrate Mother's Day this past Sunday, and we have brought in some special guests today. I've got my wife... Stephanie Locklear. And I have my wife... Esther Edge. And, uh, we wanted to put some expertise- Yes, we did on the subject. Tyler, can I tell you, it is difficult for a man to teach a Mother's Day sermon. Yeah. Um, right? It's like, you know, getting parenting advice from somebody who got no kids. Yeah, yeah. Uh, and so the sermon was in celebration of really three main attributes of the biblical mother. Mm-hmm. We highlighted from 1 Samuel Hannah. Mm-hmm. For this child she did pray, and the sacrificial love that she gave. Uh, we highlighted the aspect of motherhood where mothers in the home do their work in the home, setting the tone, setting the spiritual temperature as a thermostat as opposed to just a thermometer. And then we celebrated from Proverbs 31 this proverbial, maybe not even an actual person, but this ideal godly woman, and I just said that a godly mother aspires to high biblical attributes. And, um, anyways, I just wondered what these ladies thought of those truths, and so we wanted to bring them on today. Yeah.

What Motherhood Teaches About God

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One of the things that we saw when it comes to Hannah is we just saw God's faithfulness to her, um, through such a tough time, and one of the questions that I had here, just to start it off here, is simply this: What is it that motherhood has taught you two ladies about God that you didn't quite fully understand or comprehend before you were mothers? Well, I think the, um, the aspect of unconditional love, uh, something I tell my children all the time is, "I'll never stop loving you." And you know, before I had children, I thought, just kinda like all people do, if when they do something wrong or maybe they're not as close to the Lord as they should be at the time, that there's a distance there that is mutual. And something that parenthood has taught me is that distance is not mutual. It's only me, and God has not gone anywhere. Because no matter what my children do, I will never stop loving them, and me, who is an imperfect person, and God, who is a very perfect being, is able to love us far beyond we're able to comprehend. Oh, that's so good. Esther, what about you? It's really... I mean, I see, like, how God is with me in how I am with my kids. Like, I love my kids, and they don't, they can't do anything that'll make me stop loving them. Mm. And it real- like, growing up in a Christian home, I could easily be like, "I was a good person." I, you know, not necessarily that I didn't need God, but, like, I didn't need His grace as much as some people might have. But with these kids, there's how many times I'm like, "Oh my gosh, they did this, they did that." And then- They need so much grace and then I'm like, "Wait a second Yeah God is doing the same thing with me," yet He loves me and deals with my sin and my stubbornness way better than I could. And, like, that's just something that- Isn't that really the story of the whole Bible, though? Every, say, character of the Bible, as great as they might be, and then if you read through especially the Old Testament, you talk about the knuckleheads, and you're just like, "Why is there not 11 floods?" Why didn't God start over, like, a bunch of times? Yeah. 'Cause He's so kind and so patient. And you find that, as you raise children, they're such knuckleheads just by their own nature, which is awful. They're, I mean, they're all sinners, right? They're, you're sinners. Ours are sinners. Yeah. Yeah. I, I found that with us, and this is just, like, personal, right? But we never, in growing up and such, and even when we first got married, I never really prayed for mercy or for patience or for grace. I just never did. And then we became parents, and I mean, we pray for that every single night. Mm. Oh, absolutely. Like, we need it so much. Yeah. We, Lord, we are not gonna be able to raise these children the way that you want us to if you don't give us an abundance of grace and mercy There is- and patience with these kids an extra dependency, obviously- Yeah when you're responsible for someone else's- Yep wellbeing, spiritually and physically. It is a lot to raise kids. It is, it's a bunch, and you can't know that before you go into it. Mm. I counsel couples about getting married and having children, buying a home, things like that. There's some things that you don't know if you're ready for or not, and you just do it, right? Do we have enough money to be married? Are we mature enough? Right. It's like, well, at some point you have to just jump in- Mm-hmm and go, "Ready or not, here we come," and kids is one of those things. You don't know what it's gonna cost you. You don't know the level of sacrifice. And I think you see that demonstrated in Hannah. Mm-hmm. 1 Samuel 1, she prayed and prayed and prayed. Elkanah, her husband, which by the way, what could go wrong, one husband, two wives, right? One can have children, one can't have children. Yeah. And her heart is so broken, and the other wife is so cruel, and she prays for this and wants this so much. But let me just ask this of you ladies because we can just observe it. Hannah prays for a child that she's not sure she can handle. Yeah. None of us are sure we can handle it. That's true. None of us know what we're asking for. We're asking, we wanna get into it. But you don't know until you get in there. Mm-hmm. Let me ask you this. What was...

The Hidden Sacrifices Mothers Make

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Let's talk about the sacrifice. Hannah, in the Bible- Mm-hmm it says that for years and years and years she put her whole life on hold, and Elkanah and the other wife they went off to worship, and they went on basically a family vacation every year. But it says Hannah stayed home to raise Samuel- until he was weaned, which, which could have been nine, 10 years old, something like that. And then she was going to take him and, you know, dedicate him in the temple. That's a massive sacrifice. Yeah. And I wanna just talk about the sacrifice that mothers, all of them, make, and the, the sacrifice that you guys have made. And you didn't know what you were getting into. How can you when you're a young mother? And I know it's a labor of love, but I want you to talk about the labor. Well, there's several different types of sacrifices that I realized you know, having just two children, and realizing it more with the second one. But there is the initial sacrifice of your body. Um, I, I did not carry children well. Mm. Um, I struggled, you know, physically with it. Um, there, so there's that sacrifice. But the one that made the biggest impact on me was the spiritual sacrifice, the sacrifice of corporate worship. And- Mm I had to really shift my mindset of- Right this is not a season of, uh, being away from God. It's just a season of it looking differently. And so really focusing on my individual alone time with Him, never ever skipping, you know, my quiet time with Him- Yeah my reading and my prayers. But there is a sacrifice of corporate worship, and we saw that with Hannah, how she was not able to go into the temple and worship. And there, I was with my boys for about a year, each of them, in the nursery. I remember that was a hard time. It was. You know- Because literally you could stay home and do the same thing- Sure instead of going to church. And there were times where I thought that, you know, I'm struggling to get them ready, I'm struggling to have everyone out of the door, breakfast, everyone's fed, shoes are on, just to go and sit in the nursery. But that was an act of worship. That was my spiritual- Yeah worship. Scripture tells us to, "Present your body as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service," but the ESV says, "which is your spiritual worship." And I saw that time of presenting myself to the Lord with humility- Yeah and sacrifice as being my spiritual worship. Well, and it was. It was a major sacrifice. And a lot of people don't know this, Stephanie had, uh, hyperemesis with our second one, and for four months she could receive no nutrition orally. And so everything was delivered through a PICC line in her arm. For four months. It was brutal. In fact, the doctors told us, "You need to quit having children. Like, this is... It's not gonna get better, it's gonna get worse." And that was just the beginning of those sacrifices. Right. But something to keep in mind, and I was really helped with my second one, is that it is a very short season. You know, our kids are already 11 and 6, and it seems like we just had both of them. Um, but it is a short season of, you know, not being able to attend all of the corporate worship. Um- But it is, it is the longest days- Oh- and the shortest years and shortest years. Absolutely. Esther, would you agree with that? Mm-hmm. In terms of what you have sacrificed, I mean, in those longest days and the shortest years, and they go by quick. Yeah, absolutely. I've gotten the third kid now, and so I've also even seen that, you know, for me, the days are getting shorter, too. Yeah. You know, I have a whole list of things that I wanna get done, but I got to prioritize. I gotta figure out what is important to get d- get to, and what is okay to kinda pass on to another day or another time or another season. Because ultimately, like, it, it's my kids. Like, they're in a season of dependency on me. And so I need to uh, just show them and, like, take care of them in a way that points them in the right direction. And if I am just neglecting them for whatever I wanna do, then they might not really care or notice it too much now, but as they get older, that's what they're gonna realize and recognize looking back on it. And so there's a lot of things in my life that I can't do or I've given up just because I, you know, I wanna take care of them. And now that's not in a way that's "Oh, I, I don't get to do this anymore," it's like in a, in a way of regret. It's a joyful thing for me to do. It- I, like- It feels like worship it's my, my thought, my... What is it? My interests change because of these kids. Mm-hmm. And I know a lot of it is because of God. Because there's, there's things that I don't think I would have handled without him. Oh, yeah. And he's all-knowing. He knows what I need when I need it and everything. Sure. And for that, I'm very thankful, but it's something... It's also helped me to be more intentional in my time with God- Mm-hmm and in sharing that with the kids, too. You know, I, I wanna just encourage- Mm our, our listeners, um, this glory of motherhood is worth it. It's worth it. 100%. I see that's what you're saying. And sacrifice often leads to selflessness. Mm. Yes. And in turn, leads to humility. Yes. That's why I tell people, "Get married, have a bunch of kids." Oh, yeah. 'Cause it'll help you to focus on other people. It'll make you a better person. Sure. It'll make you more selfless. Now, the world has been very much affected by a godless feminist movement,

Biblical Motherhood Versus Modern Feminism

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right? And it's anti-biblical. It's anti-biblical, and there's a lot of women that would call you guys fools for doing this. You're gonna give up what they would call your prime years, whatever that means you know, for these rugrats, and you could be out making money, chasing men, whatever. Um, but instead, you've chosen this. What would you say about the sacrifices that you've made which are so countercultural? I mean, you guys are both homeschooling your children, our children. Um, and, uh, you're doing things very differently than most of our society. I, I also think that you're probably- way happier than they are. My wife is very happy. She's very content. Right. I take very good care of her. Same. Um, but it's not because of me, it's because of her choosing to live the Biblical life. Yeah. What would you say in terms of your lifestyle versus the feminist lifestyle, which is basically women should be men, women should be pigs, women should be selfish, women should get theirs, women should, you know, only focus on themselves. What, what would you say to our listeners that are seeing that dichotomy and wondering, "Well, which one's better?" Yeah. Well, we often see with, um, you know, the second wave of feminism of, you know, to not only have equal rights with men, but to surpass and go above and beyond. And it's not just anymore, "I can work and I can be a mother, and I can do all the things," it's now we're seeing a little bit of the derogatory tone towards women who choose to stay at home and have a traditional lifestyle. But I do see with women that don't opt for the traditional lifestyle, a lot of regret. And I, I know it's different for everyone, and, I don't wanna offend anyone here, but- Go ahead. This is the podcast. Yeah, that's fine. We like that around here. No, but I see oftentimes just in conversations that I've had personally with people, um, a sense of regret. There is there's only so many years that you are able to physically bear a child, and once that time goes away, you can't have it back. Mm-hmm. And we see women starting to adopt and go other routes now in their 40s, and I just see- It covered in regret, and that's heartbreaking. Mm-hmm. Because I know that this season of our lives, where they say we're giving up our best years, is full of sacrifice, but is also full of fulfillment- Mm-hmm and contentment, and I can't think of anything better than snuggling my kids and meeting their needs. That's right. Esther, what would you say about the investment you're making in your, quote-unquote, best years, as opposed to just focusing on yourself? I know, I mean, so many people, like, there's so much instant gratification and satisfaction to living like the world. But I've found that when I try to live according to God's Word, how He tells me to live, my life is so much better. Not easier, by any means. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is so hard. But there's also- Not easier in the immediate. Right there's also a, a satisfaction to getting through those hard times- Yeah and, you know, being better after it, having that growth with your family, too. Yeah. I just, the blessings that we've had by following God's- instructions is way better than anything I could have thought of or tried to get on my own. I just wanna say thank you. That's what I love most about you ladies, is your embrace of biblical feminine commands and principles. I love that you love it. I love that you appreciate it, and that you're living it. And now today, you know, on this podcast, you're preaching it, right? You're, you're saying, this is the good way to live." Yeah. Because you can live in that hedonistic way you're talking about, Esther, but I have a sneaky suspicion that after 40, I don't need no man, I don't want no kids, no rugrats bothering me. I wanna get up on Saturdays at 10 o'clock and go to get mimosas with my girlfriends. I think that gets lonely- Yeah. In your 40s. Yeah. And then I can't imagine what that looks like later on, when there's no one to take care of you in your 60s and 70s. Yeah. Family is ideal. Yeah. It's not, it's, that's not for everybody i- in the sense it doesn't happen. Spouses die, children die, or, you know, there's problems with pregnancies where there, you know, there's infertility issues. But I'm saying- For the most part, being of the ability to bear children and of the ability to be what only woman can be, it's the best Yeah It's the best what the Bible calls women to be. One

Setting The Spiritual Temperature At Home

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of the things that we can agree on here at this church and as Christians is that mothers are absolutely irreplaceable. They can't be taken out of the home. They can't be replaced with something else. And one of the things that we see, and John, you spoke about this, you were talking about how women are... They set the spiritual temperature in the home. You said they're the thermostat, not the thermometer, right? They're not, they're not reactive, they're proactive. They set the standard in the home when it comes to raising the kids. Mm-hmm. And so ladies, I wanna ask you that. What does it look like in your home? How do you practically set the spiritual temperature of your home for your children, for your husband? What does that look like in your life? It starts with God. Absolutely. Because I know that my days look very different whether I've spent time with God in the morning- Mm-hmm and whether I've not. If I am too ti- I mean, I'm in the season, I'm waking up in the middle of the night with the kids, and so getting up in the morning is really hard for me. But I've noticed even if I, even if I'm tired, if I'm waking up early and getting out of bed before the kids do- Mm-hmm I have that opportunity to set my mind in the right spot, as opposed to when I... there are plenty of days when I'm still letting myself sleep in with the kids, and- As good as it feels in the moment, once we all get up and the kids start going crazy and I haven't had that quiet time, being- I just, I don't respond as well as I should have. Yeah, absolutely. When it comes to this whole setting the temperature thing, I mean, I can talk personally, like, in our life, and the way that you set the temperature in our home. Like, I mean, it'd be weird if we had a podcast and I didn't take the opportunity to brag on you- 'cause I enjoy doing it so much. But I mean, I have talked to you guys even before about this, and especially you, John, but how you were one of the main things that kind of got me, my head screwed on again straight, right? When I was kind of, I don't know a nice word for it. I was awry, you know, I was out there just doing stupid things, uh, more of the world than, than loving the Lord. And I just think y- the setting the temperature, you set the temperature in our home to a temperature that was unbearable for me, right? So I was like, "I can't do this. I, I can't do this. She's doing it right. She's loving the Lord. She's doing well with our children, and I'm failing in every single aspect." So I was very uncomfortable, right, at home, because you had set the temperature in, in the right way. And so I was there and I was like, "I gotta figure something out here. Like, I gotta get right with the Lord. I gotta change things," right? And so that's just a testament, because I, I don't wanna get misconstrued that setting the temperature is just for the children, right? Mm-hmm. Like, I mean, for me and for you, John, right, we come home and our wives have done that, and the temperature's right, we go, "Thank you, Lord," right? Yeah. That's not something that we wanna have to deal with. We have, we have other things that we're doing, and thank God for good women, right? We come home and we say, "This is good." Absolutely irreplaceable. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Steph, do you have anything about that? Any thoughts on that or, uh- K- kind of piggyback on what Esther said, you know, it does, it all starts with the Lord, and you have to, if you want your home to run successfully, you know, she and I both homeschool, and that's a whole nother beast to talk about. But you know, making those sacrificial disciplines, uh, mandatory. You know, my alarm goes off at an unforgiving hour. And I, I, 'cause I teach fitness classes early in the morning, so my alarm goes off at 4:00. And I won't sacrifice the beginning time of my day with the Lord because I- Yeah cannot- allow people to experience me without the Holy Spirit. That's good, yeah. The Holy Spirit. And so making sure, like Esther said- Mm-hmm having time alone with the Lord every day in prayer realigning my heart with His, and calling out the dependency that I have on Him, um, throughout the rest of the day. And taking care of myself, making sure I'm drinking the water that I need, and eating what I'm supposed to- Mm-hmm and keeping my own mood regulated, because if my mood's all over the place, my kids will be all over the place. And then just setting an attitude of, this is gonna sound cheesy, forgive me, an attitude of gratitude. Yeah, right. For the day. There's positive people, there's negative people, and bless our sweet child's heart, he leans more to the latter of the two. And, uh, constantly instilling in him just being thankful, being thankful. A thankful heart is a happy heart. Um- And you're shepherding in the sense, like if you have the mental image of a shepherd walking behind a sheep with that crook, you know, the staff. You know, you're tapping right, you're tapping left. Yeah. You're having to re-correct. "No, we're not negative, we're thankful." You know, "No, we're not going to yell, we're going to be kind." You know? Right. And you're setting that. If I can just brag just for a second, Stephanie is really good at- Setting the temperature with our boys in terms of me as the head of our home. "You do not talk to your father like that. Abso- your father said something to you. Excuse you. He already spoke." And I'm not, and, uh, 'cause they'll, I'll say something and they'll say, "Why?" And she'll jump in and say, "He's not gonna have to explain himself to you. He's the father, you're the..." And I'm going, "That's temperature setting." And the kids are going, "Oh, I'm down here and they're up there together." That's, they don't even realize it, but you're setting culture. You're setting culture. Yeah. And, and this, I tell you what, it's for a husband and wife that don't have that, for a wife that doesn't have the support from her husband, for a husband that doesn't have that support from her, his wife, man, that's difficult. That's difficult. I mean, it's hard enough to parent, you know, with things going as right as we can try and make them. Yes. I can't imagine- well, Jesus even spoke to the power of this. He said there's a, uh, a woman who's married to an unbeliever. And he is attracted to the gospel, and he's gonna go to heaven, one, by her quiet conduct. What does that mean? That she set such a temperature, that he was so attractive and so... She wasn't nagging, she wasn't ugly, she wasn't loud, she wasn't overbearing, she wasn't any of those things. By the weight of her con- her conduct, the man was he was brought up to temperature. He was changed. He was converted because of the conduct of his wife. Now, now, now Tyler, that's power. That's real power. That's real influence. And I wanted to say, that's real leadership. In these great mothers, there's real leadership. We find that s- really laid out in Proverbs 31, and this is this, uh, this woman, this ideal woman, and it's, like, really kind of intimidating to read this. As I'm reading this Sunday, I'm thinking, "How are these women hearing this?" Because they're going, "I don't- rise before the sun and clothe my home in scarlet. Yeah. And, I don't buy a field and bring my, my food from afar. Yeah. And it's like there's a lot of stuff going on there. But what I think the gist, the point is here, she aims high. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. She aims high, which I would say if she's gonna set, you know, her standard by the culture, that means she's gonna aim pretty low. Mm-hmm. But she's gonna take her cues from the scripture, and she aims high. She aims for a biblical standard. Yeah. And you ladies have done that. Mm-hmm. And you've had great examples of people who have, uh, modeled that for you, and I think that's one of the beautiful things that a church offers. Amen, yeah. A church offers women who are not even biological mothers. But they're spiritual mothers. Yeah. You know, they're kind of... They, they take on this aunt form or maybe even a grandmother form. Mm-hmm. I've had women who are not my mother who have mothered me. Yeah, right. And I've thanked them for it. I've thanked them for it. Uh, they've encouraged me. They've rebuked me. They've changed my diapers. Yeah. You know, they have s- they have stood up and protected me. And I've watched them do it for my kids. Mm-hmm. Praise God for mothers who lead based on a high standard that they're attaining to. Yeah, absolutely. One of those things that you said that very, very high standard, a- and I imagine for you ladies, and you can correct me if I'm wrong here, but this next question that I have, uh, I guess I could start with a question to you both, and you can just tell me yes or no here.

Overwhelm And Inadequacy With Grace

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If you say no, I'll move on to another question. But have either of you ever felt, uh, let's start with one, overwhelmed before as mothers? Oh, absolutely. Okay. Have either of you... I mean, this is a harder question. Have either of you felt- Have any of you felt that way today? Today? Yes. Thankfully no, 'cause all we did was have breakfast. Hey, praise God. Exactly. Okay, good. We just got through breakfast. We're recording this in the morning. So no overwhelm right now, and then the tougher question is, have either of you ever felt inadequate as mothers? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So my question to you is this. Um, what encouragement do you give to both yourself- Hmm and to other mothers when you have that feeling of being overwhelmed or not being enough, being inadequate? Well, the first thing is God is the God who sees. He's the God who hears, and He is- Mm the God who is mindful. Yeah. And when we come to Him admitting our lack, admitting our you know, our great need, He is- Yeah always there to meet with us. Asking Him to hide- He is His word in our heart, that we might not sin against Him- Yeah and Him bringing back those verses to mind when we feel so desperately inadequate has been such a help to me. I have- I've cried out to the Lord, and this has just been last week even. I do this all the time, but I've cried out to the Lord and just said, "I don't know what I'm doing." Mm-hmm. "I cannot do this without you, Lord. I don't know if I'm parenting correctly, uh, you know, if I'm, if my discipline is o-..." What am I doing? And every time, His Word just reminds me that He sees me. Yeah. He's, He, He hears me. He's mindful of me, and it's Him who gives me the wisdom that I need in the moment. Um, any, any- That's so good anything that I tell my children, any way that I correct, any way that I am trying to lead or guide or direct them, it all comes from the Lord, and my wisdom is completely contingent on my obedience to Him and humility towards Him. And that He will always give me what I need because I lack in so many ways, and He is always helpful to me. So what I would tell a another mother who feels overwhelmed and inadequate to get into the Word. And- And let that counsel you. Absolutely. Because there's a devil. He's the accuser of the brethren, and in this case, of the sisteren. Yeah. And it's his job to make you feel like you're a loser. And you can be doing everything right, and yet feel like- Oh, absolutely like you're just, you know, missing the mark in every area. Like I just can't do anything right. That's, that, it, that really is how the enemy attacks me, is he makes me feel like nothing I'm doing matters, and I can't do anything- Right or say anything correctly. But leaning into his Word, you know, he has... When we feel worthless, he reminds us of our worth that's placed in him. Mm. Uh, but really hiding those scriptures in your heart and he will bring them to mind when you need them. So what I would tell, you know, another mother is dig into his Word- Mm and listen to his voice. Yeah. That's good. I think of, and then Esther, if you have anything to say, please add on. Yeah. But just what you said there, Steph, made me think of the 2 Corinthians 12:9, when Paul's asking for that, that thorn to be removed, that burden to be removed- Mm from him. And this is the verse, I'll just read it. "And he said unto me, my grace is sufficient for thee, for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I glory rather in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me." Amen. I, that's word for word what you're saying there, right? Absolutely. You, you realize that, and, "Well, I feel inadequate." Uh, and the reality is that all of us are inadequate if we're- Oh, absolutely not relying on the Father. Yeah. And that's what he's being told, that's what God is telling Paul here. "Yeah, you are inadequate, but rely upon me, my strength is made perfect." That's kind of the whole idea. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Mm-hmm. I, I studied and found out I'm completely adequate. Nope. Yep. Fail. Not, not it. Wrong book. You studied something else. Well, I think that's also why parenting is so stinking hard. It's one of the greatest gifts God's ever given us. Yeah. And what does it teach us? We're guessing. Yeah. We're- Right we're, we're trying our best, but- Yeah let's all be honest, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm better with the second one than I was with the first one. We have a third one, I'm pr- gonna be better with that one. You know? But man alive, I lack. I lack. Yeah. Do you have anything to add to that, my love? Yeah. I mean, l- especially when it comes to overwhelm calling out to God, and looking to him for that help. You know, it's not always gonna come immediately- Mm but changing your mindset in those hard and frustrating times and everything is what's going to bring about the change. 'Cause, you know, where your focus is, that's what the kids are gonna see as well. Um, but also with inadequacy, like- There, we have people that we look up to, and they seem to do it perfectly, or even looking at scripture and this is how we're supposed to be, but like, you, we're so far from that finish line. But breaking it up and working on one thing at a time. Oh, yeah. 'Cause if we look at everything as a whole- Mm and try to do it all at once, we're gonna fail in a few days. Yeah. And we're gonna be more discouraged than we were before. But if we work on and focus on one thing at a time, we build up skill and resistance, resilience in each area, and we can build on top of that instead of- Yeah you know, just kind of doing one straight tower. You gotta build that foundation and kind of work your way up. Yeah. I'm, I, uh, I've grown to be a list-maker in my olden age. Where I will make a list of all the things that I think need to be done in the day, and then just going through and prioritizing that list. You feel accomplishment, things get checked off. But also, especially with the homeschool just atmosphere of, you know, we play things by ear, we swerve, we pivot, and not being so rigid with checking off everything on your list, but just getting a few of the things done, being productive in some way. Um, did we finish all of our assignments? No. Mm-mm. Did we do Bible today? Yes, we did. Yeah. Isn't it so important to give yourself some grace there, you know? Oh, yeah. And to, Esther, like what you said earlier, you have to realize there's some things that are just not gonna get done today. And so if you... I mean, when we talk about w- you women setting a high standard for your life, a- at the same time, you have to know God is never gonna ask anything from you that He's not also gonna give you. He's never gonna ask you to give Him back something that He hasn't placed in your hands. Mm-hmm. So if there's not enough time in the day, there's not enough time in the day. Sometimes there's not enough energy in the day. And so you have to know, "Lord, I'm doing my best- and I thank you for your grace." But I think sometimes you ladies don't give yourself enough grace. And I think- I think it's, and I'll just say it here in the presence of our female companions, I think you ladies are sometimes your worst critics. Oh, totally. Oh, sure. Mm-hmm. You know, you're your worst critics. You're the, you are the voice that is saying the harshest things. Like, I have heard Stephanie sometimes say those things, and I thought, "If I heard anybody else say that, they'd be laying on the floor- Yeah looking for their teeth." Because you're expecting so much, and I was just like, "You're killing it, but you gotta give yourself some grace, mom." What you're doing is, I mean, it's monumental. Yeah. And God does not expect perfection out of any of the moms listening here. Because I can tell you this, every mom listening wishes they could go back and do some things differently. Yeah. Every single one. Oh, sure. Ev- you said it, Stephanie. We're all wondering if we're enough, and my goodness, none of us are. Jesus makes up the difference. And so we can give ourselves some grace, and thank the Lord for His grace. Yeah. Well, you have the, it, it's almost, I don't know if ironic is the right word here, but you have the modern-day, like we talked about, and it's hard not to, like, get sick to my stomach when I say the word, but you have the modern-day feminists, and they never shut up about how great they are. They talk all day long about how wonderful they are. And then we have women who I truly believe are wonderful, like you and godly ladies, and they, they're very timid. They're very quiet, right? And so we get the opportunity, I think this is something we should do, I think as a church, I think as husbands, I think as men, I could spend an hour... I love being a guy. I love being a father. I don't wanna be a wife, but I could talk for hours about how incredible mothers are and how incredible women are, right? And certain ones specifically. I think of you two. These are the actual power boss babes- I, totally. Guys right here. You have the- Yeah, that's exactly how I would've said it, so. Well, that's just, but that's how I feel. A- absolutely. These are the ones doing it. Yes. These are the ones killing it. These are the ones I admire. Yes. No, I, absolutely. I, I think good things come from you women. I think there's a lot of women out there who very bad things come from. Yeah. But I think of the women who are in the church, and they're serving the Lord, and they're raising their children up in the fear and the admonition of the Lord. Yeah. I think that that's truly world-changing, right? Mm-hmm. Not the modern-day feminist nonsense that we have. It's what you ladies are doing now, and I think that's something that we need to, I mean, truly, we need to scream it from the rooftops, right? Yes. Preach it from the pulpit. Because they're breathing life. Yeah. They're breathing life into their husbands, life into their kids- Yeah life into their D groups, life into their co-ops- Yep life into their business partners- Yeah life into the church. Mm-hmm. These women are, when they embrace God's plan- Yeah for their life, they become life-givers. Yeah. And I mean that in every sense of the word. They literally- Yeah literally give life. Yes. They conceive it. They develop it. They birth it. They feed it. Yep. They raise it. They nurture it. You guys are, um... when God made Adam and Eve in the garden, he made Eve after telling Adam, "This is not good." Mm. Now, Adam was perfect, like perfect. Right. And then he goes- Good "This is not good." Right. "That man should be alone." Puts him to sleep, takes out a rib- Yeah makes Eve, although there's all those jokes that we could make, we won't. Um, and when he wakes up and calls her woman, God stops making stuff, 'cause God was... He was in the process of a six-day life-giving campaign. Mm-hmm. He makes the woman, he makes the wife, or makes her a woman and then makes her into a wife- Right and then stops. Yeah. Because that's all the life-giving he needed to do. Yeah. It wasn't gonna get any better than that. Yeah. It's also, y- you're, you're the future, right? You're, you're raising up the future. That's something that I love seeing. There's just being here on a Sunday morning, I'm such a people watcher. I love s- watching people, puts such a smile on my face, and it makes me so happy to see mothers with their children. It makes me happy to see children and babies that are crying and screaming. It makes me happy to see mothers walking up and down the aisles and out in the back and stuff, just trying to take care of their children. Because to me, we have three kids as well, and I just love to see that the church is continuing to go on, it's continuing to live. There's young families who are being raised up, and there's... And that's a result of women, that's a result of these mothers, you mothers being mothers, and that's something that just lights my fire, that, that pumps me up, right? I can't not smile when I think about them. So as I said, I don't want this to go on for two hours. I could talk about how great you guys are all day long. But I had another- Mm did you have anything else to add, buddy, before I kinda ask a final question here and we- No, yeah, go

How The Church Can Support Mothers

34:29

right ahead. Okay. So in that vein of kind of what I was just doing there, and the question I have is this: How can the church better support and encourage both biological and spiritual mothers? Mm. I said what I started with just a moment there, and I'll just say this so that you don't have to. First off, we can tell you how great you are. I think the church can do a good job of that, encouraging mothers, loving mothers- Mm telling you how valuable you are, how needful you are, how you absolutely cannot be replaced by anything. That's impossible. You are, you are, you are without... Y- we cannot limit your value. I think we can start there, right? But you ladies, how can the church support you? How can it encourage you and help you? I know a, a thought I was having is how isolating motherhood can feel. 'Cause even when you're in groups of people, you're so focused on your kids because you wanna make sure they're behaving well- Yeah you wanna make sure they're safe, all this stuff that it is easy to ignore everything that's going around you, and which in turn makes you feel almost overlooked- Yeah or ignored. Oh, absolutely. And so just, well, some- but at the same time, our church does a really good job of this, 'cause I remember there was one Sunday, I wasn't feeling very good, but I was like if I don't go to church, my kids are gonna stay home with me, and I don't have the the stamina to take care of my kids." Yeah. "And so I'm going to church whether I feel good or not, because I know that my church is going to take care of my kids for me- Yeah with me." Wow, that's huge. That is. Yep. That is so good. Stephanie, how can we do a better job encouraging mothers, and how can we do a, a better job of encouraging spiritual mothers- Yeah not ne- the ones that have not had children? Some can't. Yeah. Esther, you hit it right on the head of the loneliness of motherhood. That's something that's not spoken of very often. Yeah. The... We talked in the very beginning of the podcast about Hannah and her sacrifices- Mm and we talked about the sacrifice of your body, we talked about the sacrifice of corporate worship, but the sacrifice of social interactions is, i'm very much an extrovert. I get my energy from other people, and even if you're an introvert, you still need people. It's wa- that's the way God designed us as Christians, to feed off and encourage one another. Mm-hmm. But yes, the loneliness aspect of being in a room full of people and feeling- Mm like you're all alone because of your responsibility in a way that a church... And like you said, our church does a fabulous job of just coming around and shepherding each other's children. We, we are one big family in our church. Yeah. Every woman is an aunt, an uncle, a grandmother. Every... Or not- Our, our kids feel like that- Yeah. don't they? Not, not Cole, but... I actually had someone say, uh... Judah ask me that. He goes, he goes, "Is Phil really my uncle?" And I go, and I just said, "Yeah." Yeah. Yeah. But no, our church is full of, uncles and grandparents and all the wonderful things. But, um- It takes a village, don't it? Yes. Yeah. But being really intentional of talking to these young mothers and spending time, because sometimes, you know, the only amount of social interaction they're gonna get all week long is when they come to church. And we provide the nursery, and we provide junior church and things, but seeking out the mothers and engaging them socially is a really big deal. And advice and encouragement are two very different things. Oh, that's good. Um, new mothers are very, very insecure. Yeah. And they're very protective over, raising their own children. And offering advice- is much different than offering encouragement, to just simply say, "You are doing a great job." Mm. "We are so proud of you." That goes a really long way, especially from more mature women in the church. The Titus 2 aspect of, mentoring, the older mentoring the younger, male and female is a really big deal. Can I just read that verse real quick? Sure. Titus chapter 2, it says, this is the structure of the church biblically, "The aged women likewise, that they be in behavior that becomes holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things, that they may teach the young women to be sober and to love their husbands, to love their children, to be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed." That's one of the great things that the church can do- Oh, absolutely is- Discipleship yes, framing what it is these mothers should be. There's so many different opinions of what they ought to be and what they could be and what they need to be, and what you're not being and how you're falling short and this and that. I think we should just give them the Bible- Oh, absolutely and say, because I tell you what, you can look around this church and say, "Man, be encouraged," 'cause you're doing it. Yeah. There's, you know what I'm saying? If I'm the Apostle Paul, I'm not writing a letter to these ladies of chastisement. No. You know, I'm writing them a Philippians letter. "Oh, you give me joy." Yeah, yes. "Oh, I watch you, man- and it just thrills my soul," because they're doing it, and they should be encouraged by that. They should be encouraged by that. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I, I, I look at the ladies in our church, and I look at the mothers, and it, it's so funny 'cause how we were talking about, John said a moment ago that you guys are your greatest, um- Critics critics, yes, yeah. Oh, sure. Um, I look at mothers in this church when I see them mothering, and I see nothing but good. It, it's like you're, you're like shining pillars of just grace and mercy. And I, I guess this isn't a biblical word, but elegance, too. There's an elegance and such a beauty, right- Yeah to a mother being a mother. And so it's just, I, I get what you're saying, and I get what you're saying, 'cause I look at you ladies, I don't see the flaws, right? I see the, I see all the good, and, and I see that truly in so many women in this church, and once again, just puts a smile on my face, right? To go, "All right, Lord, there's the future of our church," right? Right. And praise God for that. Praise God for good, godly mothers and wives. And we're talking more about you being mothers today. We could go on all day about you being wonderful wives, too, and you're just extraordinary, but we'll stick to the mothers. Maybe for another time. Ladies, thank you for coming on today. Yeah, absolutely. This has been really great. Yes. This is really great. Let's pray together. Yes.

Closing Prayer And Blessing

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Lord Jesus, we thank you for your leadership, how you shepherd us and guide us. And Lord, as we consider the holy office of motherhood, would you bless our mothers. I thank you for my mom, for my grandmother, Lord, for my wife that is a mother to our children- Mm Lord, and for those who have mothered me from outside in a spiritual sense, God, thank you for them. Lord, I pray that they would hear your Word, that they would feel the rebuke when they are in sin, and that they would repent, Lord, but that they would be showered in your grace. They would run to you in times of loneliness and not away. Oh, Father, I pray that the evil one would be hampered, that he would be kept at bay. Lord may we rejoice in your Word, and may we take our cues from your Holy Scriptures. We thank you for this office. May we embrace it and be more like you. We love you. We thank you. We thank you for the listener today. Lord, would you especially bless them as they take this in and consider your biblical role for their real faith today. In Jesus' name, amen. Amen. Amen.